PDA

View Full Version : Four Guys for 2B: Three Organizational Slots: Who Goes?


TomBradley72
03-14-2008, 10:13 AM
Looking at the White Sox 2B situation....we have four candidates (Uribe, Richar, Ramirez and Ozuna), but we have three "slots" available in the organization:

Starting 2B
Utility IF/Back Up
Starting 2B at AAA

For example...say Uribe earns the starting job, we go with Ozuna as our utility IF, and we want Ramirez to get time at 2B at Charlotte...what do we do with Richar?

Thoughts?

Lillian
03-14-2008, 10:22 AM
Ramirez should be at Short in the minors. That gives the Sox a better chance to evaluate whether or not he can replace Cabrera next year.
That is, of course, unless they planned to play him almost every day on the Major League club.

The decision on Cabrera is a big one, as I said last week. I for one, would not be too enthused about signing an aging short stop to a big long term contract.

rdivaldi
03-14-2008, 10:30 AM
Considering Alexi can play multiple positions there's no question that he and Richar can co-exist in AAA.

skottyj242
03-14-2008, 10:50 AM
Considering Alexi can play multiple positions there's no question that he and Richar can co-exist in AAA.

Well played.

russ99
03-14-2008, 10:52 AM
Even if Uribe makes the club and starts at 2B, I'd still think Kenny would eventually move him before the deadline. I can't see how Juan would be in the club's long-term plans.

His trade value's pretty low right now, so a few months building value wouldn't hurt and it would give Ramirez a chance to acclimate to the US and give Richar a few more valuable AAA at-bats.

I guess a better question would be if Richar and Ramirez would block Getz and Rouse from developing further.

ChiTownTrojan
03-14-2008, 10:59 AM
Even if Uribe makes the club and starts at 2B, I'd still think Kenny would eventually move him before the deadline. I can't see how Juan would be in the club's long-term plans.

His trade value's pretty low right now, so a few months building value wouldn't hurt and it would give Ramirez a chance to acclimate to the US and give Richar a few more valuable AAA at-bats.

I guess a better question would be if Richar and Ramirez would block Getz and Rouse from developing further.
As it currently stands, yes. But I don't expect those guys (Richar and Ramirez) to be in AAA after this year.

rdivaldi
03-14-2008, 11:31 AM
I guess a better question would be if Richar and Ramirez would block Getz and Rouse from developing further.

Rouse is basically a career minor leaguer, so I doubt he's even considered. Getz well, I hate to use the term, but he's probably a future "grinder". I'm pretty sure that the organization is more concerned with Ramirez and Richar in terms of their development.

Bucky F. Dent
03-14-2008, 11:51 AM
I agree with Russ, I 've got to believe that they are going to deal Uribe sometime during the season.

sox1970
03-14-2008, 11:57 AM
I think Uribe will be traded soon, so He Gone.

Ozuna is a bench player.

Richar will start the year either as the Sox 2B or on the DL.

If Ramirez gets sent down, I think he'll float between 2B, SS, and CF.

Chris Getz will probably be the regular starter at 2B for Charlotte.

Risk
03-14-2008, 12:10 PM
I would agree with the earlier posters that Uribe will probably be dealt since its clear he is not in the long term plans for the team, but he should probably be the starter at 2B (it pains me to think this, too). However, I don't know how much confidence I have in Richar taking over when he is still unproven and has back problems. Having Alexei up north just to ride the bench and be a sub would be just a waste of time.

Risk

RowanDye
03-14-2008, 12:30 PM
If we deal with the 3B problem, there will be enough spots to carry 3 of the 4 IFs. Alternatively the Sox could carry 5 OFs.

12 pitchers + 9 positional starters + 4th outfielder + Toby + Ozuna = 24

If Quentin and Richar start the season on the DL, then I would give Ramirez a chance for some on the job training, knowing that Uribe is available if he fails.

Risk
03-14-2008, 12:41 PM
If we deal with the 3B problem, there will be enough spots to carry 3 of the 4 IFs. Alternatively the Sox could carry 5 OFs.

12 pitchers + 9 positional starters + 4th outfielder + Toby + Ozuna = 24

If Quentin and Richar start the season on the DL, then I would give Ramirez a chance for some on the job training, knowing that Uribe is available if he fails.

I'm not sure if Hall even makes the team.

Risk

A. Cavatica
03-14-2008, 08:40 PM
It's an interesting puzzle. Bourgeois needs to fit in there somewhere too. Better to have too many players for the spots than the other way around, though we need to deal Uribe.

sullythered
03-14-2008, 09:09 PM
Uribe starts the season at second. Pablo on the bench. Whichever of the other two plays better in the minors replaces Juan when he is traded.

gogosox16
03-14-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm not sure if Hall even makes the team.

Risk
Then who's the back up catcher?

Daver
03-14-2008, 09:28 PM
Then who's the back up catcher?

:chopper


Put me in coach.

Tragg
03-15-2008, 12:35 AM
Looking at the White Sox 2B situation....we have four candidates (Uribe, Richar, Ramirez and Ozuna), but we have three "slots" available in the organization:

Starting 2B
Utility IF/Back Up
Starting 2B at AAA

For example...say Uribe earns the starting job, we go with Ozuna as our utility IF, and we want Ramirez to get time at 2B at Charlotte...what do we do with Richar?

Thoughts?People have complained about Uribe for 2 years - and that was at SS - now we want his offense at 2B? Iguchi gave us 15-20 homers and a .340 obp; Uribe gives 15-20 homers and a 280 obp. That's a major downgrade. Uribe's Offense is way below par for a second baseman. The only way he can win the job is if Richar is just hopeless or injured. Otherwise, put Richar out there because at least he has a chance (and a good one) to be a good player.
Put Ramirez in AAA, Ozuna to be utility man (we don't need 3 of those, like last year's disaster of a team had) and trade Uribe (enough with the hack at everything veterans, of which last year's team was also replete).

SoxNation05
03-15-2008, 12:43 AM
Then who's the back up catcher?
DONNY, DONNY, DONNY Lucy.

A. Cavatica
03-15-2008, 01:09 AM
Then who's the back up catcher?

Anderson will play both C and CF simultaneously, unless he's needed to close.

Lillian
03-15-2008, 10:09 AM
It's an interesting puzzle. Bourgeois needs to fit in there somewhere too. Better to have too many players for the spots than the other way around, though we need to deal Uribe.

I agree that Jason should be considered as another candidate for the second base competition. He's a second baseman by trade, and has only been used recently in CF, as an experiment. I think he seems much better suited at second, and he's probably the only one of these guys who could bat lead off. That would be huge, as it would eliminate the need for Owens.
I'd rather see Swisher, Anderson and Dye, with Quentin as the fourth outfielder.

FedEx227
03-15-2008, 11:28 AM
People have complained about Uribe for 2 years - and that was at SS - now we want his offense at 2B? Iguchi gave us 15-20 homers and a .340 obp; Uribe gives 15-20 homers and a 280 obp. That's a major downgrade. Uribe's Offense is way below par for a second baseman. The only way he can win the job is if Richar is just hopeless or injured. Otherwise, put Richar out there because at least he has a chance (and a good one) to be a good player.
Put Ramirez in AAA, Ozuna to be utility man (we don't need 3 of those, like last year's disaster of a team had) and trade Uribe (enough with the hack at everything veterans, of which last year's team was also replete).

Agreed. I really can't believe people are realistically praising Juan Uribe. You should not get rewarded for awful play over the last 2 years. Don't hold up the progression of potential youngsters (Richar, Ramirez) so that we can trot his first pitch swinging fat ass out there every day.

jabrch
03-15-2008, 11:33 AM
If they are both destined to be 2Bs, is there any reason Ramirez or Richar can't go to AA? (Getz?)

Risk
03-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Then who's the back up catcher?

Donny Lucy.

Risk

FedEx227
03-15-2008, 12:04 PM
If they are both destined to be 2Bs, is there any reason Ramirez or Richar can't go to AA? (Getz?)

Have you watched Ramirez and Richar play?

Have you watched Getz play?

Ramirez >>>>>>>>>>>> Getz

Richar >>>>>>>>>>>>> Getz

and yes Richar definitely belongs in AA, he was in AAA for Arizona one of the better farm systems in baseball, but yeah he can't hang with the mighty White Sox organization WE have Chris Getz and Jason Bougeouis.

Craig Grebeck
03-15-2008, 12:18 PM
If Ramirez and Richar are both in AAA, how on earth does Ramirez not play SS?

TomBradley72
03-15-2008, 01:00 PM
Have you watched Ramirez and Richar play?

Have you watched Getz play?

Ramirez >>>>>>>>>>>> Getz

Richar >>>>>>>>>>>>> Getz

and yes Richar definitely belongs in AA, he was in AAA for Arizona one of the better farm systems in baseball, but yeah he can't hang with the mighty White Sox organization WE have Chris Getz and Jason Bougeouis.

Most of the talk from Ozzie/KW has been with Ramirez targeted as a 2B (I think they plan on signing Cabrera to a multi year deal)...so the point is not that Richar needs to be at AA. But if Uribe is our starter (for now), Ozuna is our utility guy, and Ramirez needs time at 2B in the minors to smooth out his "rough" defense...where does that leave Richar?

Tragg
03-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Most of the talk from Ozzie/KW has been with Ramirez targeted as a 2B (I think they plan on signing Cabrera to a multi year deal)...so the point is not that Richar needs to be at AA. But if Uribe is our starter (for now), Ozuna is our utility guy, and Ramirez needs time at 2B in the minors to smooth out his "rough" defense...where does that leave Richar?
The problem is why in the world is Uribe the starter?

Rather than re-sign Cabrera, send Ramirez down to learn SS, and not sign Cabrera but take the draft choices.

TomBradley72
03-15-2008, 02:35 PM
The problem is why in the world is Uribe the starter?

Rather than re-sign Cabrera, send Ramirez down to learn SS, and not sign Cabrera but take the draft choices.

I'm not ready to dismiss Cabrera so easily...especially after giving up Garland for him. He's a Gold Glove caliber SS, a solid #2 hitter and a leader on/off the field. Probably our best everyday SS since Ozzie (before the knee surgery) 15+ years ago.

If we're looking towards 2009...I'd take Cabrera/Ramirez up the middle over Ramirez/Richar any day of the week. I think Richar has a chance to be good...but he's 25 y.o., hit .230 in an extended stint at the major league level, and is dealing with a back injury and hasn't shown much in spring training so far. I'm not ready to make organizational moves around the assumption he's the answer at 2B.

Craig Grebeck
03-15-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm not ready to accept the fact that this organization is so short-sighted that it would resign a 33 year old shortstop in favor of fusing the minors with young talent. Cabrera will only decline from here. Replicating last season is next to impossible.

FedEx227
03-15-2008, 08:43 PM
I'm not ready to dismiss Cabrera so easily...especially after giving up Garland for him. He's a Gold Glove caliber SS, a solid #2 hitter and a leader on/off the field. Probably our best everyday SS since Ozzie (before the knee surgery) 15+ years ago.

If we're looking towards 2009...I'd take Cabrera/Ramirez up the middle over Ramirez/Richar any day of the week. I think Richar has a chance to be good...but he's 25 y.o., hit .230 in an extended stint at the major league level, and is dealing with a back injury and hasn't shown much in spring training so far. I'm not ready to make organizational moves around the assumption he's the answer at 2B.

187 at-bats over 56 games is extended stint? Thats 35% of a season.

What has Ramirez does outside of a hot spring?

If you want to look at one through a misguided assumption, you have to do the other that way too.

If Richar didn't prove anything to you last year then surely you wouldn't believe Ramirez has showed you anything considering he's never taken a major league at-bat?

For the record, I'm in favor of telling Uribe and his bubble butt to hit the road, play Richar and have Ramirez in AAA learning SS/2B while we see how OC works out. If Richar tanks, no biggie we can use Ramirez. But I can't see how Sox fans are A) Praising Juan Uribe B) Praising Alexi Ramirez while at the same time bashing Danny Richar when they are both very inexperienced

TomBradley72
03-15-2008, 09:01 PM
187 at-bats over 56 games is extended stint? Thats 35% of a season.

What has Ramirez does outside of a hot spring?

If you want to look at one through a misguided assumption, you have to do the other that way too.

If Richar didn't prove anything to you last year then surely you wouldn't believe Ramirez has showed you anything considering he's never taken a major league at-bat?

For the record, I'm in favor of telling Uribe and his bubble butt to hit the road, play Richar and have Ramirez in AAA learning SS/2B while we see how OC works out. If Richar tanks, no biggie we can use Ramirez. But I can't see how Sox fans are A) Praising Juan Uribe B) Praising Alexi Ramirez while at the same time bashing Danny Richar when they are both very inexperienced

It's just my opinion. It's based on some stats...but it's also based on watching Richar play last year and watching Ramirez's first few week's with the White Sox. I don't think I was "bashing" Richar...and yes it was only "35% of a season"...but the guy is 25 y.o....it's not like he's a young prospect.

Based on what I've seen...if we trade Uribe...I like Ramirez over Richar...but I'd like to have him work on his 2B defense until that happens.

FedEx227
03-15-2008, 09:04 PM
It's just my opinion. It's based on some stats...but it's also based on watching Richar play last year and watching Ramirez's first few week's with the White Sox. I don't think I was "bashing" Richar...and yes it was only "35% of a season"...but the guy is 25 y.o....it's not like he's a young prospect.

Based on what I've seen...if we trade Uribe...I like Ramirez over Richar...but I'd like to have him work on his 2B defense until that happens.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a platoon between the two. Go with the hot one, honestly. It might not be the best for their development but I think both are/will become tremendous players.

TomBradley72
03-16-2008, 02:13 PM
I also wouldn't mind seeing a platoon between the two. Go with the hot one, honestly. It might not be the best for their development but I think both are/will become tremendous players.

I agree...but I don't think they will have room for Ramirez + Richar + Ozuna.