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TomBradley72
03-13-2008, 10:58 AM
Discuss.

chisoxmike
03-13-2008, 11:19 AM
Yes.

spiffie
03-13-2008, 11:23 AM
He can no longer hit LHP. Not at all. The team is weak like the Ukraine when he's in the lineup against LHP.

rdwj
03-13-2008, 11:23 AM
Well, he's been brutal against lefties and he's getting to that age where he could probably use extra days off. When a lefty is on the mound, I hope Ozzie sits him more often than letting him play.

GAsoxfan
03-13-2008, 11:24 AM
I think it depends on the Sox options. Over the last three years, Thome's BA against lefties is .209, but his OBP is .325. So even though he doesn't hit the ball well, he still gets on base at a decent clip.

If Crede and Fields are both on the team, then I say DH Fields against lefties. However, if my choice is Thome or the 4th OF (Owens/Quentin/Anderson) I'd probably take Thome.

LoveYourSuit
03-13-2008, 11:27 AM
No brainer ......YES

ChiTownTrojan
03-13-2008, 11:30 AM
I think it depends on the Sox options. Over the last three years, Thome's BA against lefties is .209, but his OBP is .325. So even though he doesn't hit the ball well, he still gets on base at a decent clip.

If Crede and Fields are both on the team, then I say DH Fields against lefties. However, if my choice is Thome or the 4th OF (Owens/Quentin/Anderson) I'd probably take Thome.
Crede and Fields will not both be on the team. If Crede isn't traded, Fields will go back to Charlotte. I think KW or Ozzie said this before ST even started (and I don't think their performances so far merit them changing their minds and keeping both).

balke
03-13-2008, 11:30 AM
I don't understand the question. If you are putting Konerko there, then you are playing someone else.

So the question is really, would you rather have Thome and his power against LH pitching, or Ozuna/Quentin/Owens/Ramirez/Uribe type players in the lineup instead.

Ozuna will hit very well against LH pitching, but he could also start at 2B if need be.

A better question is: what is the best all around lineup against LH pitching?

ChiTownTrojan
03-13-2008, 11:32 AM
I don't understand the question. If you are putting Konerko there, then you are playing someone else.

So the question is really, would you rather have Thome and his power against LH pitching, or Ozuna/Quentin/Owens/Ramirez/Uribe type players in the lineup instead.

Ozuna will hit very well against LH pitching, but he could also start at 2B if need be.

A better question is: what is the best all around lineup against LH pitching?
Don't over-think it. It's a simple question: should it be Thome or someone (anyone) else?

sox1970
03-13-2008, 11:36 AM
No way should Thome start against lefties, including opening day. Sorry.

2006 vs. lefties
Avg: .236
OBP: .354
SLG: .361

2007 vs. lefties
AVG: .196
OBP: .314
SLG: .350

He'd be much more valuable pinch hitting in these games, anywhere in the lineup.

I'd have Quentin in RF, and Dye DHing in these games.

hi im skot
03-13-2008, 11:38 AM
I'd have Quentin in RF, and Dye DHing in these games.

I don't disagree with you, but didn't Ozzie say Quentin would only be playing LF?

ChiTownTrojan
03-13-2008, 11:39 AM
He'd be much more valuable pinch hitting in these games, anywhere in the lineup.

I'd have Quentin in RF, and Dye DHing in these games.
And Ozuna at 2B/leadoff.

I agree, but I don't think you can keep him out of the lineup on opening day. He's a veteran and team leader, and he's earned that at least.

Lillian
03-13-2008, 11:40 AM
Barring a trade, or injuries, this team has lots of options vs. Lefties.
Ozuna could play second, and lead off, opening up spots for some of our other outfield options. Quentin, Anderson, and Dye would suit me, at least vs. Lefties.

Fields could DH for Thome, as I suggested months ago. (I don't buy the idea that the Sox can't keep both Crede and Fields on the same team.)

ChiTownTrojan
03-13-2008, 11:40 AM
I don't disagree with you, but didn't Ozzie say Quentin would only be playing LF?
From what I've heard about Quentin, he's got plenty of talent/arm to play RF. Maybe Ozzie just was saying that because (at the time) LF was the spot that was most likely up for grabs?

sox1970
03-13-2008, 11:42 AM
And Ozuna at 2B/leadoff.

I agree, but I don't think you can keep him out of the lineup on opening day. He's a veteran and team leader, and he's earned that at least.

They get 18 games head to head with the Indians. I want them to have the best chance to win each of these games. I'd rather see Thome come off the bench, and hit a homer off the Tom Mastny's of the world than see him K, and hit into the shift 2 or 3 times.

balke
03-13-2008, 11:43 AM
Don't over-think it. It's a simple question: should it be Thome or someone (anyone) else?

The answer doesn't prove anything. Dye/Swisher/Konerko would be better most likely, but who fills in for them? And are they better against lefties than Thome?

It would probably be best hitting-wise to play Dye at DH, but who has a good arm in RF that can field the position? You could put Swisher there and play Owens though. Thome's better against Lefties than Owens though.

Thome's also better than Quentin so far professionally. The only thing you could really do is put Crede there if you have 2 3Bman. You won't though. So what bench player is better than Thome there? Jeff Liefer? I'll stick with Thome I think.

Lillian
03-13-2008, 12:04 PM
Barring a trade, or injuries, this team has lots of options vs. Lefties.
Ozuna could play second, and lead off, opening up spots for some of our other outfield options. Quentin, Anderson, and Dye would suit me, at least vs. Lefties.



Oops! I forgot to add that Swisher could DH with that lineup, and bat right handed of course.

Jjav829
03-13-2008, 12:14 PM
I have to say no. Thome just doesn't produce all that well against lefties.

In 2007 Thome had an OPS of .663 (!) against lefties. In 2006 his OPS against lefties was .715.

And against the lefties in our division, he hasn't had success.

Thome vs:
C.C. Sabathia - 0-11 7 K 2 BB
Dontrelle Willis - 3-22 .376 OPS 11 K 3 BB
Kenny Rogers - 8-47 .625 OPS 16 K 11 BB 1 HR
Cliff Lee - 4-18 .737 OPS 3 K 3 BB 1 HR

The one lefty he has fared well against is Nate Robertson, against who Thome is 5-12 with a 1.217 OPS lifetime.

Against righties, Thome is about as dominant as any hitter in baseball. But he simply hasn't gotten in done against lefties in recent years.

If Ozzie does insist on keeping Thome in the lineup against lefties, he sure as hell better drop him down to at least 6th in the lineup.

Jerko
03-13-2008, 12:17 PM
It's not as simple as saying "thome sucks vs. lefties, let's put Player X in there". Thome's rep alone may mean the 1 and 2 hitters see better pitches, and their eight or so at bats per game may be better with him in the lineup. Plus I am a firm believer in a "starting 9", and I don't think we should have 130 different lineups a year. Yes if he needs rest, do it against a tough lefty, but this shouldn't be the "rule" for the entire season IMO. Maybe the Sox record sucks against lefties because 1/3 of their starting lineup is always on the bench for those games. I know baseball is an "individual" game melded into a team sport, but continuity counts for something IMO. I already dread the dozens of different lineups we're going to see this season.

russ99
03-13-2008, 12:20 PM
I think a much bigger question about Big Jim is can he consistently start hitting to the opposite field so opposing teams quit using that god-awful shift...

EndemicSox
03-13-2008, 12:24 PM
Heck no...

MushMouth
03-13-2008, 12:48 PM
It's not as simple as saying "thome sucks vs. lefties, let's put Player X in there". Thome's rep alone may mean the 1 and 2 hitters see better pitches, and their eight or so at bats per game may be better with him in the lineup. Plus I am a firm believer in a "starting 9", and I don't think we should have 130 different lineups a year. Yes if he needs rest, do it against a tough lefty, but this shouldn't be the "rule" for the entire season IMO. Maybe the Sox record sucks against lefties because 1/3 of their starting lineup is always on the bench for those games. I know baseball is an "individual" game melded into a team sport, but continuity counts for something IMO. I already dread the dozens of different lineups we're going to see this season.

Agree with all this - and I'd add that you absolutely risk putting Thome into a slump against righties by sitting him too much, something we cannot afford if we plan on winning games this year.

Chicken Dinner
03-13-2008, 12:54 PM
The whole team doesn't produce against lefties, not just Thome. :?:

Taliesinrk
03-13-2008, 01:02 PM
Agree with all this - and I'd add that you absolutely risk putting Thome into a slump against righties by sitting him too much, something we cannot afford if we plan on winning games this year.

Maybe. I mean some players don't seem to have a problem with this at all. See: Ozuna. Also, if it keeps him healthy throughout the season, maybe we can - risk this.

cws05champ
03-13-2008, 01:10 PM
He should bat against lefties about 25% of the time and 100% of the time against righties. He needs to see then enough so he can stay sharp against them, but not hurt the team too much if he can't hit them at all.

ChiSox65
03-13-2008, 01:12 PM
If you can't trade Crede, I say platoon Fields/Thome with Fields spelling Crede at third a couple times a week saving Crede/Thome from further back problems.

JMO

You can put it on the Board.

Jjav829
03-13-2008, 01:48 PM
It's not as simple as saying "thome sucks vs. lefties, let's put Player X in there". Thome's rep alone may mean the 1 and 2 hitters see better pitches, and their eight or so at bats per game may be better with him in the lineup. Plus I am a firm believer in a "starting 9", and I don't think we should have 130 different lineups a year. Yes if he needs rest, do it against a tough lefty, but this shouldn't be the "rule" for the entire season IMO. Maybe the Sox record sucks against lefties because 1/3 of their starting lineup is always on the bench for those games. I know baseball is an "individual" game melded into a team sport, but continuity counts for something IMO. I already dread the dozens of different lineups we're going to see this season.

Not if the opposing team has a scouting report. Any basic scouting report with Thome is going to say, "Does not hit lefties well."

You've got to give the opposing pitchers more credit than that, especially in this day and age. These guys watch video of opposing teams on their iPods! And you think they are going to suddenly face the Sox and forget about the fact that our number 3 hitter is hitting .219 against lefties in the past two years? Hardly. This is the kind of thing that any pitching coach, catcher and starter worth their salt are going to remember and use. You say Thome's rep will mean the #1 and #2 hitters see better pitches. I say anyone who takes a quick glance at Thome's numbers vs. lefties is going to know that there is no reason to give the #1 and #2 hitters anything decent because the #3 hitter is a near automatic out against lefties.

If Ozzie wants to keep Thome in the lineup against lefties, then he has to at least drop him down.

That Thome should at least be moved down in the order against lefties shouldn't even be an argument. There are few times in baseball when statistics show something this clear.

OPS vs. leftes in the past 2 season.

Konerko:
2007 - .988
2006 - .983

Dye:
2007 - .925
2006 - 1.075

Swisher:
2007 - .921
2006 - .909

Thome:
2007 - .663
2006 - .715

To put this in an even greater context, among players who received at least 100 plate appearances against lefties last season, Jim Thome had the 215th(!!) best OPS. Brad Ausmus had a better OPS agaisnt lefties last season. In 2006, Thome had the 173rd best OPS against lefties.

And to show how big of a difference there is with Thome, among players who received at least 100 plate appearances against righties, Thome had the 3rd best OPS, behind only David Ortiz and Chipper Jones. In 2006, Thome had the #1 OPS in baseball against righties.

Against right-handed pitchers, Thome is arguably the most dominant hitter in baseball. Against left-handed pitchers, Thome is a detriment in the #3 spot.

Foulke You
03-13-2008, 01:56 PM
If Ozzie does insist on keeping Thome in the lineup against lefties, he sure as hell better drop him down to at least 6th in the lineup.
I think this is really the best option for Ozzie but he stubbornly leaves Thome in the 3 hole. Dye should probably be the 3 hitter against lefties and Thome's lower #s against lefties wouldn't hurt us as much down in the order. Ozzie definitely has more options this year though. He can choose to rest Thome against the Sabathias of the world and DH Konerko with Swisher at 1B.

Noneck
03-13-2008, 02:04 PM
If Uribe doesn't win a starting job, let him DH vs. lefties rather than Thome.

ChiTownTrojan
03-13-2008, 02:14 PM
I think this is really the best option for Ozzie but he stubbornly leaves Thome in the 3 hole. Dye should probably be the 3 hitter against lefties and Thome's lower #s against lefties wouldn't hurt us as much down in the order. Ozzie definitely has more options this year though. He can choose to rest Thome against the Sabathias of the world and DH Konerko with Swisher at 1B.
I like Swisher in the 3 hole against lefties. He hits for power and OBP, so if he isn't driving in the guys on base he'll at least be getting on in front of Konerko/Dye. This is assuming that Ozzie does the right thing and let's Ozuna lead off against lefties.

This would be my top of the lineup:

Ozuna
Cabrera
Swisher
Konerko
Dye
Thome? (occasionlly)
etc.

Frater Perdurabo
03-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Not if the opposing team has a scouting report. Any basic scouting report with Thome is going to say, "Does not hit lefties well."

You've got to give the opposing pitchers more credit than that, especially in this day and age. These guys watch video of opposing teams on their iPods! And you think they are going to suddenly face the Sox and forget about the fact that our number 3 hitter is hitting .219 against lefties in the past two years? Hardly. This is the kind of thing that any pitching coach, catcher and starter worth their salt are going to remember and use. You say Thome's rep will mean the #1 and #2 hitters see better pitches. I say anyone who takes a quick glance at Thome's numbers vs. lefties is going to know that there is no reason to give the #1 and #2 hitters anything decent because the #3 hitter is a near automatic out against lefties.

If Ozzie wants to keep Thome in the lineup against lefties, then he has to at least drop him down.

That Thome should at least be moved down in the order against lefties shouldn't even be an argument. There are few times in baseball when statistics show something this clear.

OPS vs. leftes in the past 2 season.

Konerko:
2007 - .988
2006 - .983

Dye:
2007 - .925
2006 - 1.075

Swisher:
2007 - .921
2006 - .909

Thome:
2007 - .663
2006 - .715

To put this in an even greater context, among players who received at least 100 plate appearances against lefties last season, Jim Thome had the 215th(!!) best OPS. Brad Ausmus had a better OPS agaisnt lefties last season. In 2006, Thome had the 173rd best OPS against lefties.

And to show how big of a difference there is with Thome, among players who received at least 100 plate appearances against righties, Thome had the 3rd best OPS, behind only David Ortiz and Chipper Jones. In 2006, Thome had the #1 OPS in baseball against righties.

Against right-handed pitchers, Thome is arguably the most dominant hitter in baseball. Against left-handed pitchers, Thome is a detriment in the #3 spot.

Thanks for posting these stats, Jjav! I agree that Thome should not start against LHP. As others have said, I think there's room for Fields and Crede, with Fields DH-ing against LHP and giving Crede one or two games off per week at third. If not Fields, though, then have Dye DH and put Quentin in RF.

Giving Thome regular rest ought to make him even more effective than he already is against RHP, since he will have regular off days to tend to his recurring back issues.

Also, having a pinch hitter like Thome available will force opposing managers into using their bullpen differently. Does he bring in the RH reliever, knowing that Thome might pinch hit? Does he leave the the LOOGY in the game, fearing that if he replaces him with the RH reliever, Thome might pinch hit? Also, if you've knocked the opposing LH starter out of the game by the sixth inning, and it's a high-scoring game on both sides, and the opposing team only has one LOOGY, you can bring in Thome in the sixth to force the other team use their LOOGY, knowing that Thome will get at least one AB (in the ninth, or perhaps earlier) against a RHP.

Jerko
03-13-2008, 03:09 PM
I think I'd rather sit Thome out than move him down in the order. This lineup: (assuming that AJ, Owens, and Richar don't play)

Ozuna 2b
cabrera ss
Swisher cf
PK 1b
JD rf
Thome dh
Crede 3b
Quentin LF
Hall C

scares the crap out of me. I don't trust Ozuna at 2nd, I'm not sold on Quentin, at all, and that 3-9 may be the slowest in baseball. If Joe gets moved and Fields plays, that's a brutal D. I think I'd rather take Thome's unproductive OPS in the 3 hole than see the above lineup.

balke
03-13-2008, 03:11 PM
Thanks for posting these stats, Jjav! I agree that Thome should not start against LHP. As others have said, I think there's room for Fields and Crede, with Fields DH-ing against LHP and giving Crede one or two games off per week at third. If not Fields, though, then have Dye DH and put Quentin in RF.

Giving Thome regular rest ought to make him even more effective than he already is against RHP, since he will have regular off days to tend to his recurring back issues.

Also, having a pinch hitter like Thome available will force opposing managers into using their bullpen differently. Does he bring in the RH reliever, knowing that Thome might pinch hit? Does he leave the the LOOGY in the game, fearing that if he replaces him with the RH reliever, Thome might pinch hit? Also, if you've knocked the opposing LH starter out of the game by the sixth inning, and it's a high-scoring game on both sides, and the opposing team only has one LOOGY, you can bring in Thome in the sixth to force the other team use their LOOGY, knowing that Thome will get at least one AB (in the ninth, or perhaps earlier) against a RHP.


It should be noted- Carlos Quentin has had 64 ML at-bats against LH pitching. He's hit .172 with a .276 OBP and 2 HR's.

That's not a huge sample size, and I don't have his Minor league splits. Point is, there's no evidence that he's more deserving to be on the roster. Noone is IMO.

Everyone who has said Thome shouldn't start, has neglected to find a roster spot to fill in that would put up more offensively. So for me, I'd take his .300 OBP and at least the threat of power, over the idea of benching him just to put Juan Uribe or Jerry Owens on the roster in the field somewhere.


Should Thome be moved lower in the order against lefties? Yes. Should he be off the roster against lefties? IF there are 9 other hitters who do better than him against lefties, then yes. With this team, NO.

Interesting though. Something that may be attainable via trade is a good bat against lefties. That would put a lot of dead weight on the roster though if it were a past his prime vet who could really only DH.

Barry Bonds anyone?

spiffie
03-13-2008, 03:25 PM
It should be noted- Carlos Quentin has had 64 ML at-bats against LH pitching. He's hit .172 with a .276 OBP and 2 HR's.

That's not a huge sample size, and I don't have his Minor league splits. Point is, there's no evidence that he's more deserving to be on the roster. Noone is IMO.

Everyone who has said Thome shouldn't start, has neglected to find a roster spot to fill in that would put up more offensively. So for me, I'd take his .300 OBP and at least the threat of power, over the idea of benching him just to put Juan Uribe or Jerry Owens on the roster in the field somewhere.


Should Thome be moved lower in the order against lefties? Yes. Should he be off the roster against lefties? IF there are 9 other hitters who do better than him against lefties, then yes. With this team, NO.

Interesting though. Something that may be attainable via trade is a good bat against lefties. That would put a lot of dead weight on the roster though if it were a past his prime vet who could really only DH.
Last year Juan actually hit pretty solid against lefties...for Juan at least. 257/300/457/757. As opposed to Thome who put up a 196/314/350 line.

balke
03-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Last year Juan actually hit pretty solid against lefties...for Juan at least. 257/300/457/757. As opposed to Thome who put up a 196/314/350 line.

They look about even to me. Which really, might be the better way to go if they wanna DH Ozuna and play Juan at 2B. Uribe's OBP in 2006 was .224 against lefties though, so perhaps 2007 was a little flukey? Thome had a .354 OBP that season. I for the most part would stick with Thome. Less games with him starting there, but still he would get the majority of DH time unless a better bat against lefties is acquired, or if Ramirez shows good stroke against lefties.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-13-2008, 04:16 PM
I think I'd rather sit Thome out than move him down in the order. This lineup: (assuming that AJ, Owens, and Richar don't play)

Ozuna 2b
cabrera ss
Swisher cf
PK 1b
JD rf
Thome dh
Crede 3b
Quentin LF
Hall C

scares the crap out of me. I don't trust Ozuna at 2nd, I'm not sold on Quentin, at all, and that 3-9 may be the slowest in baseball. If Joe gets moved and Fields plays, that's a brutal D. I think I'd rather take Thome's unproductive OPS in the 3 hole than see the above lineup.

:?:
I don't understand why you would propose that lineup against lefties if it scares you. And putting Thome in the lineup doesn't improve the defense or offense if a lefty is on the mound.

Why not the following:

Ozuna 2b
Cabrera SS
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Swisher LF
Crede 3B (or Fields, if Crede is moved)
Quentin DH
Hall or AJ C
Anderson CF

Basically, you're replacing Thome with Anderson. It's still a slow lineup, but those are the cards that Kenny dealt us. The defense is better with Anderson in center, and while Ozuna might have some problems in the field, he's the best leadoff hitter we have against lefties.

Lukin13
03-13-2008, 05:40 PM
The best part about sitting Thome against lefthanded starters is that he can be an extremely dangerous pinch hitter late in the game.

Also, w/:

Fields 3B
Swisher CF
Owens CF/LF
Pablo 2B/3B/OF

All probably in the lineup against a lefty starter, there will be PLENTY of late game defensive replacements, giving Thome tons of pinch hit opportunities even in games we are ahead.

It is aspects like this that make the difference between:

#1 A good manager and a bad manager.
#2 Cubs fans and Sox fans.

TomBradley72
03-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Ozuna 2b
cabrera ss
Swisher cf
PK 1b
JD rf
Thome dh
Crede 3b
Quentin LF
Hall C

scares the crap out of me. I don't trust Ozuna at 2nd, I'm not sold on Quentin, at all, and that 3-9 may be the slowest in baseball. If Joe gets moved and Fields plays, that's a brutal D. I think I'd rather take Thome's unproductive OPS in the 3 hole than see the above lineup.

How does Thome address either lack of speed or poor defense?

Against LHs....I'd have Anderson in CF, Swisher in LF and Quentin at DH....Thome sitting...PH's/replaces Quentin if necessary.

sox1970
03-13-2008, 07:59 PM
God, I hope Anderson gets traded.

BadBobbyJenks
03-13-2008, 08:29 PM
Against the Sabathias no.
The Nate Robertsons yes.

balke
03-13-2008, 09:43 PM
:?:
I don't understand why you would propose that lineup against lefties if it scares you. And putting Thome in the lineup doesn't improve the defense or offense if a lefty is on the mound.

Why not the following:

Ozuna 2b
Cabrera SS
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Swisher LF
Crede 3B (or Fields, if Crede is moved)
Quentin DH
Hall or AJ C
Anderson CF

Basically, you're replacing Thome with Anderson. It's still a slow lineup, but those are the cards that Kenny dealt us. The defense is better with Anderson in center, and while Ozuna might have some problems in the field, he's the best leadoff hitter we have against lefties.


Because you just actually replaced Thome with Quentin who hasn't proven anything more against Lefties than Thome has.

Jerko
03-13-2008, 11:27 PM
How does Thome address either lack of speed or poor defense?

Against LHs....I'd have Anderson in CF, Swisher in LF and Quentin at DH....Thome sitting...PH's/replaces Quentin if necessary.

I know Thome doesn't play D and is slow no matter what. BUT, I'd rather see Thome in the 3 hole against lefties than be subjected to Ozuna and Fields in the same infield and a lower 3rd of the order consisting of Quentin, BA, and Hall. My god that is awful..... Admittedly, I don't have much hope for Quentin (health wise), BA (ST performance notwithstanding), or Ozuna (defensively)..

What I would LIKE to see against lefties is this:

Without Thome:

Ozuna DH
Cabrera SS
Swisher LF
PK 1b
JD RF
Joe.josh 3b
Owens CF
Uribe 2b
Hall C

With Thome:

Owens CF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
PK 1b
JD rf
Swisher LF
Joe 3b
Uribe 2b
Hall C

Of course this is assuming AJ and Richar won't face lefties.
I think we overrate Quentin here, and I am probably overrating Owens.

TomBradley72
03-14-2008, 09:07 AM
I know Thome doesn't play D and is slow no matter what. BUT, I'd rather see Thome in the 3 hole against lefties than be subjected to Ozuna and Fields in the same infield and a lower 3rd of the order consisting of Quentin, BA, and Hall. My god that is awful..... Admittedly, I don't have much hope for Quentin (health wise), BA (ST performance notwithstanding), or Ozuna (defensively)..

What I would LIKE to see against lefties is this:

Without Thome:

Ozuna DH
Cabrera SS
Swisher LF
PK 1b
JD RF
Joe.josh 3b
Owens CF
Uribe 2b
Hall C

With Thome:

Owens CF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
PK 1b
JD rf
Swisher LF
Joe 3b
Uribe 2b
Hall C

Of course this is assuming AJ and Richar won't face lefties.
I think we overrate Quentin here, and I am probably overrating Owens.

Why would you want Owens starting against LHs?

ChiTownTrojan
03-14-2008, 09:35 AM
I know Thome doesn't play D and is slow no matter what. BUT, I'd rather see Thome in the 3 hole against lefties than be subjected to Ozuna and Fields in the same infield and a lower 3rd of the order consisting of Quentin, BA, and Hall. My god that is awful..... Admittedly, I don't have much hope for Quentin (health wise), BA (ST performance notwithstanding), or Ozuna (defensively)..

What I would LIKE to see against lefties is this:

Without Thome:

Ozuna DH
Cabrera SS
Swisher LF
PK 1b
JD RF
Joe.josh 3b
Owens CF
Uribe 2b
Hall C

With Thome:

Owens CF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
PK 1b
JD rf
Swisher LF
Joe 3b
Uribe 2b
Hall C

Of course this is assuming AJ and Richar won't face lefties.
I think we overrate Quentin here, and I am probably overrating Owens.
You obviously don't have much hope for BA, who I think will be in CF more often than not (at least to start the season).

ChiTownTrojan
03-14-2008, 09:42 AM
You obviously don't have much hope for BA, who I think will be in CF more often than not (at least to start the season).
Not sure why this hasn't been mentioned specifically, but BA and Owens would make for a pretty nice platoon situation. Against lefties, BA would start in CF and hit somewhere in the 7-9 region, and Ozuna would leadoff and either play 2B or DH. Against righties, Owens would start at CF (or LF if Ozzie prefers) and lead off, with BA serving as a defensive replacement late in the game. Some of you may argue that it's not the best situation for the development of our young players to have them split time, but it's not uncommon. If one player proves he deserves the full-time gig, then great.

Jerko
03-14-2008, 09:43 AM
Why would you want Owens starting against LHs?

Because I think he is better than Quentin, BA, or Ozuna no matter who pitches for the other team. Hey i hope these 3 guys stick it to me and have great years, but I don't see it.

The Dude
03-14-2008, 01:59 PM
Yes. Thome's presence in the lineup can not be duplicated regardless if there is a lefty throwing or not.

Lukin13
03-14-2008, 04:10 PM
Yes. Thome's presence in the lineup can not be duplicated regardless if there is a lefty throwing or not.

His presence to fans in the seats or to the opposing team?

His presence as a late inning pinch hitter is much more intimidating than his horrible track record against left handers.