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Lip Man 1
03-11-2008, 07:13 PM
The headline says he's "concerned" with the youngsters.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080311&content_id=2419910&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip

Sockinchisox
03-11-2008, 07:17 PM
Wait, Tomo Ohka is assured to be on the roster? When did this happen?

Sox
03-11-2008, 07:21 PM
Can the picture as far as pitching depth goes be this bleak for the Sox. What happened between last season and this season for Coop to give such a bleak report? I guess I don't get it.:scratch:

soltrain21
03-11-2008, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I'm very confused about the Tomo Ohka thing. Since when was that a guarantee?

Lip Man 1
03-11-2008, 07:25 PM
Sox:

I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that many in the bullpen gamble from last year failed miserably. I think the hope was some of those pitchers could "buy time" for some of the kids to develop more.

When they fell apart, some kids like Day were rushed up, beat up and perhaps mentally hurt by the experience.

Like PHG has said from day one at WSI, "it's all about the pitching..."

The Sox have some serious questions in that regard.

Lip

Sargeant79
03-11-2008, 07:26 PM
The two young guys who have been penciled into the rotation have done well so far. Danks looks like he has made a good amount of progress as he enters his 2nd full season and Floyd has had respectable results in both of his spring starts. I think what he's referring to is all the other young pitchers who they were thinking may be needed as callups throughout the year. Guys like Broadway and Haegar, who haven't looked so good.

Don't know what the deal is with Okha being included as having a spot. I only recall his name in a box score once with lousy results. Anyone have an idea of how he's done this spring?

Lip Man 1
03-11-2008, 07:29 PM
And Egbert and Russell for example.

This is the 3rd or 4th game this spring where the kids were asked to hold a lead near the end of the game and couldn't do the job.

Lip

Sockinchisox
03-11-2008, 07:29 PM
The two young guys who have been penciled into the rotation have done well so far. Danks looks like he has made a good amount of progress as he enters his 2nd full season and Floyd has had respectable results in both of his spring starts. I think what he's referring to is all the other young pitchers who they were thinking may be needed as callups throughout the year. Guys like Broadway and Haegar, who haven't looked so good.

Don't know what the deal is with Okha being included as having a spot. I only recall his name in a box score once with lousy results. Anyone have an idea of how he's done this spring?

6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 3 Ks, 1.50 ERA.

Sox
03-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Sox:

I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that many in the bullpen gamble from last year failed miserably. I think the hope was some of those pitchers could "buy time" for some of the kids to develop more.

When they fell apart, some kids like Day were rushed up, beat up and perhaps mentally hurt by the experience.

Like PHG has said from day one at WSI, "it's all about the pitching..."

The Sox have some serious questions in that regard.

Lip

I was afraid of that. Well that clears up an issue the White Sox have. Should be an interesting season. I'm just hoping and praying that the Sox pitching staff stays healthy since the pitching depth is that bad.
Thanks Lip for answering my question.

Frater Perdurabo
03-11-2008, 07:32 PM
I'd feel a lot better if the Sox had one more veteran starting pitcher. I'd give up almost any hitter on the roster to get one. That would allow Floyd or Danks to move to long relief.

btrain929
03-11-2008, 07:34 PM
Can the picture as far as pitching depth goes be this bleak for the Sox. What happened between last season and this season for Coop to give such a bleak report? I guess I don't get it.:scratch:

To me, this is non-news. He said all the pitchers on the 25 man are fine. He's talking about the Carlos Vasquez's, Oneli Perez's, and Adam Russell's of the world. None of those guys are expected to contribute this year, anyway. If someone goes down, Lance Broadway, Jack Egbert, Nick Masset, Tomo Ohka, or Charlie Haeger (gulp) can step in for a while. Not many teams have above average veterans or minor league studs in the making waiting around to step in immediately as their 6th starter.

steely712
03-11-2008, 07:34 PM
I agree with what he is saying 100%. When one of these starters go down, and we can only pray that it won't be Buehrle or Vazquez, who is going to be able to step in and help out, especially in the bullpen, because we really have no depth in the minors when it comes to relief. I really hope that if we do trade Crede, we get some pitching for him, because we will be in trouble at least once this year when someone goes down. I am happy that Coop actually said something, because now maybe we can get him some more help.

Daver
03-11-2008, 07:37 PM
I'd feel a lot better if the Sox had one more veteran starting pitcher. I'd give up almost any hitter on the roster to get one. That would allow Floyd or Danks to move to long relief.

They traded Jon Garland.

sullythered
03-11-2008, 07:39 PM
To me, this is non-news. He said all the pitchers on the 25 man are fine. He's talking about the Carlos Vasquez's, Oneli Perez's, and Adam Russell's of the world. None of those guys are expected to contribute this year, anyway. If someone goes down, Lance Broadway, Jack Egbert, Nick Masset, Tomo Ohka, or Charlie Haeger (gulp) can step in for a while. Not many teams have above average veterans or minor league studs in the making waiting around to step in immediately as their 6th starter.
That's exactly what I took from it. It's a bummer that Dewon Day and Vasquez have been disappointing, but it's not the end of the world.

Sox
03-11-2008, 07:44 PM
I guess if I had to choose between Carlos Vasquez and Dewon Day I 'd choose Carlos simply based on the better of the two ERA's........but still those are some steep ERA's.

Lip Man 1
03-11-2008, 07:47 PM
Sully:

Although one can make a case that the Sox have had a number of youngsters not produce at the big league level now for the past 15 years or so. That represents a real problem in scouting and developing kids.

-----

I agree with the notion that another veteran starter should have been signed. Kenny disagreed, he made some bold statements about Danks and Floyd. (much as last year he made some comments about his rebuilt bullpen...) I hope for Kenny's sake as well as the team's that he's correct this season.

Lip

MCHSoxFan
03-11-2008, 07:47 PM
I looked at the box score today on whitesox.com/mlb.com. I feel better that it was NOT Gavin/Mike who gave up a ton of runs. However, I wish we had more depth. At least we have a good feeling out SP and our BP will be good.

Sockinchisox
03-11-2008, 07:47 PM
To me, this is non-news. He said all the pitchers on the 25 man are fine. He's talking about the Carlos Vasquez's, Oneli Perez's, and Adam Russell's of the world. None of those guys are expected to contribute this year, anyway. If someone goes down, Lance Broadway, Jack Egbert, Nick Masset, Tomo Ohka, or Charlie Haeger (gulp) can step in for a while. Not many teams have above average veterans or minor league studs in the making waiting around to step in immediately as their 6th starter.

He mentioned Ohka with the guys that are going to be on the 25 man, guys like Jenks, Buehrle, Linebrink and Dotel. Thats saying that he's going to be on the roster. If anything that counts as news.

btrain929
03-11-2008, 07:55 PM
He mentioned Ohka with the guys that are going to be on the 25 man, guys like Jenks, Buehrle, Linebrink and Dotel. Thats saying that he's going to be on the roster. If anything that counts as news.

Yeah, I missed the part that said they had their ticket punched to Chicago. Is he going to be the long reliever out of the pen, with Masset being traded? I can't see Coop knowing all of that ahead of time for sure.....

Frater Perdurabo
03-11-2008, 07:56 PM
They traded Jon Garland.

Sigh.

If Anderson can keep hitting like a major leaguer, perhaps the Sox could afford to deal Paulie for a starter and move Swisher to first base?

btrain929
03-11-2008, 08:00 PM
Sigh.

If Anderson can keep hitting like a major leaguer, perhaps the Sox could afford to deal Paulie for a starter and move Swisher to first base?

I mentioned that about a week ago. The problem is, when do you pull the trigger. Do you wait for the middle/end of April to see if BA brings his hot bat to the bigs too? Do you do it now? Maybe package BA and Masset to get a mediocre SP as insurance?

I have no idea what moves will transpire over the next few weeks....:scratch:

Frater Perdurabo
03-11-2008, 08:08 PM
I mentioned that about a week ago. The problem is, when do you pull the trigger. Do you wait for the middle/end of April to see if BA brings his hot bat to the bigs too? Do you do it now? Maybe package BA and Masset to get a mediocre SP as insurance?

I have no idea what moves will transpire over the next few weeks....:scratch:

I'd do it now and hope that two among Anderson, Quentin and Owens pan out. If only one of those three perform, then you pick up an outfielder at the deadline. But having one more reliable veteran starting pitcher makes it more likely that the Sox would be in contention in July.

California Sox
03-11-2008, 08:26 PM
This is not surprising. The Sox have one of the three worst farm systems in the game. The upper levels are especially bereft. Poor drafting along with a lot of trades has caused this condition and it will take a few years for it to straighten out. We had a little depth, but we traded it to get Cabrera and Swisher. Personally, I think Swisher is going to have a very good year. However, I can't help but be jealous that Texas got a player as good as Josh Hamilton for a guy (Volquez) who's inferior to either Gio or DLS.

If we can get halfway through the season there is a chance Poreda could help. He might not have secondary stuff, but a lefty who throws 96 ought to be able to get someone out. Behind him... I don't see much. Hopefully some guys will develop.

sullythered
03-11-2008, 08:53 PM
Sully:

Although one can make a case that the Sox have had a number of youngsters not produce at the big league level now for the past 15 years or so. That represents a real problem in scouting and developing kids.

-----

I agree with the notion that another veteran starter should have been signed. Kenny disagreed, he made some bold statements about Danks and Floyd. (much as last year he made some comments about his rebuilt bullpen...) I hope for Kenny's sake as well as the team's that he's correct this season.

Lip

I'm right there with you. I just don't think anything this spring (as far as pitching goes) has been surprising.

sullythered
03-11-2008, 08:57 PM
This is not surprising. The Sox have one of the three worst farm systems in the game. The upper levels are especially bereft. Poor drafting along with a lot of trades has caused this condition and it will take a few years for it to straighten out. We had a little depth, but we traded it to get Cabrera and Swisher. Personally, I think Swisher is going to have a very good year. However, I can't help but be jealous that Texas got a player as good as Josh Hamilton for a guy (Volquez) who's inferior to either Gio or DLS.

If we can get halfway through the season there is a chance Poreda could help. He might not have secondary stuff, but a lefty who throws 96 ought to be able to get someone out. Behind him... I don't see much. Hopefully some guys will develop.

I don't want to be insensitive, but all things considered, Josh Hamilton is a wild card and still a huge risk. That's probably why the asking price was much less than for Swisher.

As far as Poreda goes, I have high hopes. And also fears he could be Andy Sisco.

Optipessimism
03-11-2008, 09:06 PM
He mentioned Ohka with the guys that are going to be on the 25 man, guys like Jenks, Buehrle, Linebrink and Dotel. Thats saying that he's going to be on the roster. If anything that counts as news.
Nowhere in that article was it mentioned that Ohka was going to make the team. Ohka was mentioned as someone Coop had been impressed with. He's a veteran so this should be the case. That's not news.

rowand33
03-11-2008, 09:09 PM
Nowhere in that article was it mentioned that Ohka was going to make the team. Ohka was mentioned as someone Coop had been impressed with. He's a veteran so this should be the case. That's not news.

Cooper rattled off Mark Buehrle, Javier Vazquez, John Danks, Matt Thornton, Tomo Ohka, Scott Linebrink, Octavio Dotel, Bobby Jenks and a handful of names who have a ticket to Chicago assured. They've done well.

Sounds like news to me.

A. Cavatica
03-11-2008, 09:45 PM
If Ohka's ticket is punched, we are in trouble.

Jjav829
03-11-2008, 10:14 PM
If Ohka's ticket is punched, we are in trouble.

No kidding. Are we that desperate? A guy who had a 5.79 ERA last season comes in and pitches 6 decent innings against what I'm guessing wasn't exactly great major league talent and he's locked up a spot? :thud:

champagne030
03-11-2008, 10:21 PM
I'd feel a lot better if the Sox had one more veteran starting pitcher. I'd give up almost any hitter on the roster to get one. That would allow Floyd or Danks to move to long relief.

They traded Jon Garland.

:nod::dunno:

Me too. I'd like our chances much more if Kenny was able to trade Cabrera back to the Angels for Garland, but that ship sailed.......:(:

sox1970
03-11-2008, 10:27 PM
I got a feeling Wassermann is going to get screwed.

Tragg
03-11-2008, 11:24 PM
That article was awfully broad. A lot of pitchers weren't even mentioned, espeically the best young pitchers. The author rattled of Whisler and Day - but I don't think anyone expected them to contribute.
What about Floyd, Broadway, Egbert, Wasserman, Logan?

balke
03-11-2008, 11:54 PM
I have no problem with Ohka on the squad until he becomes a problem. I always thought before he was a quietly solid pitcher, and at the back end of the rotation, the Sox need that. Depending on how JC is looking, Ohka might be the Sox 3rd best pitcher at season start.

I think young guys was referring to the relievers as mentioned before. Danks looks fine so far. Floyd might be bumped out of a starting position with Ohka around.

Tragg
03-12-2008, 12:00 AM
I have no problem with Ohka on the squad until he becomes a problem. I always thought before he was a quietly solid pitcher, and at the back end of the rotation, the Sox need that. Depending on how JC is looking, Ohka might be the Sox 3rd best pitcher at season start.

I think young guys was referring to the relievers as mentioned before. Danks looks fine so far. Floyd might be bumped out of a starting position with Ohka around.
Ohka has been hideous the last couple of years. If he reverts to earlier years, then okay. I certainly hope that we don't have to put up with a bad ohka....we had bukvich on the team for way too long last year I would guess because no one pitched any better. Let that not happen again.
One positive from this nebulous article is that Danks seems to be pencilled in, no worries, no concerns. That's really good.

Optipessimism
03-12-2008, 12:40 AM
Sounds like news to me.

The quote was "and a handful of names who have a ticket to Chicago assured."

You should have bolded the "and" there. Those names were mentioned PLUS a handful of other names with tickets to Chicago. If the quote was "as a handful of names who have a ticket to Chicago assured" then it would be news because Ohka would clearly be identified as someone going north with the team.

The competition for the last bullpen spot is not over. If it was there would be an article about it somewhere. The Sox have said Ohka was brought in to provide veteran leadership in Charlotte; clearly he isn't even a favorite to make the big league roster. From the way it looks, the final job is Masset's to lose, and he isn't going to lose it until the last couple of ST games if he loses it at all.

This is nothing more than a poorly worded paragraph by the author. Ohka does not have a spot on the team. He impressed Don Cooper because he is a veteran who knows how to pitch, but his lack of stuff is going to keep him off the team unless the option-less Masset implodes.

Optipessimism
03-12-2008, 12:44 AM
I got a feeling Wassermann is going to get screwed.
He already has gotten screwed. The Sox have stated over and over how important they feel MacDougal is, and there are really only two bullpen slots available: one for a righty specialist and the other for long relief. Wassermann has effectively been taken out of the only position he can compete for, despite being the better option IMO both now and longterm. I just hope that if MacDougal rebounds this year we end up dealing him at the break.

spiffie
03-12-2008, 08:14 AM
Right now Da Reverand is furiously trying to think of something to rhyme with "Ohka."

soxfanatlanta
03-12-2008, 08:22 AM
Right now Da Reverand is furiously trying to think of something to rhyme with "Ohka."

Polka
Mocha
Joke-a
:tongue:

Craig Grebeck
03-12-2008, 08:47 AM
Sigh.

If Anderson can keep hitting like a major leaguer, perhaps the Sox could afford to deal Paulie for a starter and move Swisher to first base?
And doing that will only downgrade the offense. There aren't any teams out there willing to deal a good starter for Konerko.

Frater Perdurabo
03-12-2008, 11:35 AM
And doing that will only downgrade the offense. There aren't any teams out there willing to deal a good starter for Konerko.

The Angles might. They've been looking for a power hitting, cleanup batting first baseman for years. :tongue: