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View Full Version : Could dealing Crede be in trouble?


thomas35forever
03-09-2008, 09:33 PM
After today, Joe Crede is hitting an impressive .105 in ST. I know I've heard reports of him being healthy, but what team is going to be interested in him if he's putting up those kinds of numbers? KW said only of the Crede/Fields duo would be on the roster by the end of ST, but now I'm not sure if that's going to happen.

DeadMoney
03-09-2008, 10:03 PM
After today, Joe Crede is hitting an impressive .105 in ST. I know I've heard reports of him being healthy, but what team is going to be interested in him if he's putting up those kinds of numbers? KW said only of the Crede/Fields duo would be on the roster by the end of ST, but now I'm not sure if that's going to happen.

He's only had 19 at-bats, and you can't take much from that ... plus, I'm sure scouts are looking at MANY other things besides 2 for 19.

My concern is the fact that Fields and Crede are BOTH 2 for 19 thus far. Tough to trade one, when the other is struggling JUST as much. If that continues for both, a trade seems unlikely.

zmz723
03-09-2008, 10:08 PM
After today, Joe Crede is hitting an impressive .105 in ST. I know I've heard reports of him being healthy, but what team is going to be interested in him if he's putting up those kinds of numbers? KW said only of the Crede/Fields duo would be on the roster by the end of ST, but now I'm not sure if that's going to happen.


Thank you for putting "impressive" in teal, because without the teal I would have thought that batting .105 really was impressive.

Sockinchisox
03-09-2008, 10:15 PM
After today, Joe Crede is hitting an impressive .105 in ST. I know I've heard reports of him being healthy, but what team is going to be interested in him if he's putting up those kinds of numbers? KW said only of the Crede/Fields duo would be on the roster by the end of ST, but now I'm not sure if that's going to happen.

I read in some article either yesterday or today that teams that want him just want to see him healthy and that they have liked what they've seen, it might have been in a Rosenthal article, i'll try and find it.

Edit: Here it is, it's not a Rosenthal article though, and it cites a major league scout.

http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080309&content_id=2414659&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

JB98
03-09-2008, 10:51 PM
With Crede, I think it's less about the results and more about the approach. Is he getting good swings? Does he have good bat speed? That's what the scouts are going to look at, not the batting average.

WhiteSox5187
03-09-2008, 11:04 PM
With Crede, I think it's less about the results and more about the approach. Is he getting good swings? Does he have good bat speed? That's what the scouts are going to look at, not the batting average.
Exactly, Crede is just trying to show guys that he's healthy and see major league pitching again. Look for him to start hitting the ball better and better as ST goes along...I still think he's going to be on the OD roster.

The Thomenator
03-09-2008, 11:43 PM
Exactly, Crede is just trying to show guys that he's healthy and see major league pitching again. Look for him to start hitting the ball better and better as ST goes along...I still think he's going to be on the OD roster.

I can definately see him being on the opening day roster as well. KW has to be asking himself this: At what point is Joe's trade value at its highest, now or at the trading deadline? With all of the teams in contention (or think theyre in contention) with the wild card and all, I can definately forsee the latter being the case. It only takes one dumb gm to pony up a descent/good package for the guy.

In the event that the sox are outta contention, they have a lotta pieces to unload to build up the farm with in Contreras, Crede, Cabrera, and even Thome. Im not saying I'd be for dumping some of these guys, but the option will be there if we suck this year.

RowanDye
03-09-2008, 11:52 PM
I can definately see him being on the opening day roster as well. KW has to be asking himself this: At what point is Joe's trade value at its highest, now or at the trading deadline? With all of the teams in contention (or think theyre in contention) with the wild card and all, I can definately forsee the latter being the case. It only takes one dumb gm to pony up a descent/good package for the guy.

In the event that the sox are outta contention, they have a lotta pieces to unload to build up the farm with in Contreras, Crede, Cabrera, and even Thome. Im not saying I'd be for dumping some of these guys, but the option will be there if we suck this year.

This only works if Fields starts the year in AAA.

Neither Fields nor Crede have any versatility. Carrying both guys would mean someone that could actually make a difference on the field is not on the roster.

No thanks, trade Crede for whatever we can get and move on.

PalehosePlanet
03-10-2008, 12:15 AM
No thanks, trade Crede for whatever we can get and move on.

Please, and quickly; before his back goes out again.

gobears1987
03-10-2008, 12:20 AM
Yes because I'm sure that the Sox staff and other MLB scouts put a lot of stock in the 19 spring training at bats of two proven MLB hitters.

In judging Crede, I would put more weight on how he plays D. His habitual diving for balls probably puts far more strain on him than hitting. He seems to be doing fine there and the scouts know that.

BRDSR
03-10-2008, 09:19 AM
He's only had 19 at-bats, and you can't take much from that ... plus, I'm sure scouts are looking at MANY other things besides 2 for 19.


Yeah...they might also look at the fielding he's been doing so far this spring which, unfortunately, is also impressive.

In judging Crede, I would put more weight on how he plays D. His habitual diving for balls probably puts far more strain on him than hitting. He seems to be doing fine there and the scouts know that.

Have you seen either of the errors he's made this spring? Diving for balls is great...what's he going to do, not dive for balls? But when he's sailing throws and having trouble getting his glove on the ground for grounders (which some fielders have trouble with as a rule...Crede does not) I get worried that his back is not 100%

If we can get a career 4/5 spot starting pitcher for him, I would take it in a heartbeat and do cartwheels to boot. Make it happen KW.

Gammons Peter
03-10-2008, 09:37 AM
I'm annoyed at the wording of the title:

Could dealing Crede be in trouble?

skottyj242
03-10-2008, 10:50 AM
After today, Joe Crede is hitting an impressive .105 in ST. I know I've heard reports of him being healthy, but what team is going to be interested in him if he's putting up those kinds of numbers? KW said only of the Crede/Fields duo would be on the roster by the end of ST, but now I'm not sure if that's going to happen.

Imagine not playing golf for like 7 months or so, when you go back out on the couse you're going to suck for a bit. You have to get to game speed and get your tempo back. Crede will be fine.

soxfan13
03-10-2008, 10:58 AM
Imagine not playing golf for like 7 months or so, when you go back out on the couse you're going to suck for a bit. You have to get to game speed and get your tempo back. Crede will be fine.

Dude i can not play golf for a year and when I do again I am still as ****ty as I was before:redneck Crede will be fine but unfortunately I still think it will be for another team.

Cessna
03-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Imagine not playing golf for like 7 months or so, when you go back out on the couse you're going to suck for a bit. You have to get to game speed and get your tempo back. Crede will be fine.

Why is it then when I go back on the course after a winter layoff that I will still suck at golf all summer long no matter how much I play?:tongue:

skottyj242
03-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Dude i can not play golf for a year and when I do again I am still as ****ty as I was before:redneck Crede will be fine but unfortunately I still think it will be for another team.

I think the last time I played was with you in that scramble.

dickallen15
03-10-2008, 11:00 AM
After today, Joe Crede is hitting an impressive .105 in ST. I know I've heard reports of him being healthy, but what team is going to be interested in him if he's putting up those kinds of numbers? KW said only of the Crede/Fields duo would be on the roster by the end of ST, but now I'm not sure if that's going to happen.
Guess what, Fields is also hitting .105. Ichiro is 0-17. They must really be panicking in Seattle.

soxfan13
03-10-2008, 11:03 AM
I think the last time I played was with you in that scramble.

And oh boy did we ever scramble:gulp:

skottyj242
03-10-2008, 11:06 AM
And oh boy did we ever scramble:gulp:

:stooges:

soxfan13
03-10-2008, 11:09 AM
:stooges:

Found a picture from that day. Joe the fourth stooge was getting us beers in the clubhouse:tongue:


http://www.posterart.com/ourposters/images/golf1.jpg

btrain929
03-10-2008, 11:37 AM
Guess what, Fields is also hitting .105. Ichiro is 0-17. They must really be panicking in Seattle.

Adrian Gonzalez was like 0-10 before he hit that double off of Contreras yesterday too...

LoveYourSuit
03-10-2008, 12:40 PM
From the little I have seen of Crede so far, his swing appears to be very loopy right now...might because of his long lay off. If we recall, pre-2005 he had one of the loopiest swings in baseball. It might be a little bit of time until he gets his quick stroke again.

Lip Man 1
03-10-2008, 01:32 PM
Kenny talks about this:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/833996,CST-SPT-sox10.article

Lip

TomBradley72
03-10-2008, 07:46 PM
Crede's trade value is directly correlated to the number of starting 3B on contenders who get injured.

We should let the season unfold...and trade him if/when we get an outstanding offer from a team who needs him because they are "going for it". If that means Fields spends a few more months at AAA working on his defense...I don't think that will impact his overall development.

Taliesinrk
03-11-2008, 10:36 AM
Crede's trade value is directly correlated to the number of starting 3B on contenders who get injured.

We should let the season unfold...and trade him if/when we get an outstanding offer from a team who needs him because they are "going for it". If that means Fields spends a few more months at AAA working on his defense...I don't think that will impact his overall development.

In fact, it could further help. I mean, maybe he could work on not whiffing so much

spiffie
03-11-2008, 10:47 AM
In fact, it could further help. I mean, maybe he could work on not whiffing so much
Who gives a damn if he K's a lot if he hits 40 HR, which he is capable of? Being in the top 20 in K's hasn't seemed to hurt Grady Sizemore, Jim Thome, Carlos Pena, or Alex Rodriguez. I fail to see where him hitting 40 more pop-ups or weak grounders, and likely losing some of his power stroke, makes him a more useful player to us.

soxfan13
03-11-2008, 10:57 AM
Who gives a damn if he K's a lot if he hits 40 HR, which he is capable of? Being in the top 20 in K's hasn't seemed to hurt Grady Sizemore, Jim Thome, Carlos Pena, or Alex Rodriguez. I fail to see where him hitting 40 more pop-ups or weak grounders, and likely losing some of his power stroke, makes him a more useful player to us.

He hasnt even come close to 40. Sorry but I think the 30 Joe hit a few years ago is about as high as he will get. He IMO will always be in the 20-30 range. Which is good dont get me wrong. I just dont think he is capable of 40.

spiffie
03-11-2008, 11:01 AM
He hasnt even come close to 40. Sorry but I think the 30 Joe hit a few years ago is about as high as he will get. He IMO will always be in the 20-30 range. Which is good dont get me wrong. I just dont think he is capable of 40.
He hit 23 in 373 AB's last year. That's one home run every 16 AB's as a rookie. You think that if had the extra nearly 200 AB's that he would get as a full time 3B that he would only hit another 3-7 HR's in those? And that he wouldn't improve over time?

kittle42
03-11-2008, 11:08 AM
He hit 23 in 373 AB's last year. That's one home run every 16 AB's as a rookie. You think that if had the extra nearly 200 AB's that he would get as a full time 3B that he would only hit another 3-7 HR's in those? And that he wouldn't improve over time?

And if he doesn't work on his contact, he'll be Dave Kingman at best. Not necessarily a good thing.

soxfan13
03-11-2008, 11:11 AM
He hit 23 in 373 AB's last year. That's one home run every 16 AB's as a rookie. You think that if had the extra nearly 200 AB's that he would get as a full time 3B that he would only hit another 3-7 HR's in those? And that he wouldn't improve over time?

oops we are missing each other here, I thought you were originally talking about Crede. Sorry my bad !!

spiffie
03-11-2008, 11:16 AM
oops we are missing each other here, I thought you were originally talking about Crede. Sorry my bad !!
No worries :smile:

And if he doesn't work on his contact, he'll be Dave Kingman at best. Not necessarily a good thing.
Agreed, he needs to put the ball in play more. However, I think it needs to be as a function of him being better at reading pitchers/pitches rather than attempting to change the mechanics of his swing.

Hokiesox
03-11-2008, 11:22 AM
I say trade him now, even for prospects. If he gets injured before the trading deadline, he's worth nothing AND walks at the end of the season. Then we have Magglio, part deux.

Gammons Peter
03-11-2008, 12:39 PM
For the love of god, please change the title of this thread. I fear that proper sentence structure might be in trouble.

How the hell can dealing "be in trouble"

Sargeant79
03-11-2008, 12:41 PM
And if he doesn't work on his contact, he'll be Dave Kingman at best. Not necessarily a good thing.

I don't really think that's a fair comparison. Josh has shown that he can hit for average in the minors...he hit .305 in 2006 at Charlotte, and .283 in 200 at bats at Charlotte last year. Additionally, his OBP in the minors the last two years was .394 in 2007 and .379 in 2006.

I think Adam Dunn is a better comparison, and possibly better than that if he does work on his contact. I'll take that.

kittle42
03-11-2008, 01:28 PM
I don't really think that's a fair comparison. Josh has shown that he can hit for average in the minors...he hit .305 in 2006 at Charlotte, and .283 in 200 at bats at Charlotte last year. Additionally, his OBP in the minors the last two years was .394 in 2007 and .379 in 2006.

I think Adam Dunn is a better comparison, and possibly better than that if he does work on his contact. I'll take that.

Except that he won't walk as much as Dunn does.

oeo
03-11-2008, 01:42 PM
And if he doesn't work on his contact, he'll be Dave Kingman at best. Not necessarily a good thing.

Fields has never had a problem hitting the ball. It was his rookie year, GMAB.

PalehosePlanet
03-11-2008, 02:19 PM
According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, at least one NL scout is not impressed at all by Crede. (Sorry if this was posted already.)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/03/10/heyman.giants/1.html

spiffie
03-11-2008, 03:04 PM
Except that he won't walk as much as Dunn does.
No, but if he comes even close to replicating his minor league BA he'll add 25 points of OBP through batting average. I don't expect him to hit .300 like he did one year, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't settle into the .260-.270 range, with a few more walks than he projected out to last year.

kittle42
03-11-2008, 03:30 PM
No, but if he comes even close to replicating his minor league BA he'll add 25 points of OBP through batting average. I don't expect him to hit .300 like he did one year, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't settle into the .260-.270 range, with a few more walks than he projected out to last year.

[DISCLAIMER: I am not advocating for one over the other]

Does this make Fields a younger Joe Crede with better power numbers and less defense?

spiffie
03-11-2008, 03:34 PM
[DISCLAIMER: I am not advocating for one over the other]

Does this make Fields a younger Joe Crede with better power numbers and less defense?
I don't think that's too horribly far off the mark. I think the main difference is Fields has room to grow. We've likely seen the tip-top ceiling of Joe Crede in 2006. If Fields can learn to be more patient at the plate, and get the avg up to his minor league numbers, he could potentially end up a significantly bigger offensive threat than Joe. It might happen, it might not. But at this point Fields has the potential to improve. Crede, not so much.

BRDSR
03-12-2008, 05:08 PM
Just to put together a mid-game update on the Crede/Fields at-the-plate situation...Fields has already gotten two hits today and has his average up to .230. Crede is 0-2 and his average has slipped below .085. He also has four errors so far in spring training.

TRADE HIM FOR WHAT YOU CAN GET KENNY!

munchman33
03-12-2008, 06:09 PM
Just to put together a mid-game update on the Crede/Fields at-the-plate situation...Fields has already gotten two hits today and has his average up to .230. Crede is 0-2 and his average has slipped below .085. He also has four errors so far in spring training.

TRADE HIM FOR WHAT YOU CAN GET KENNY!

No kidding. I'm worried that Fields starts hitting, Crede doesn't, and we have to play Crede into the season to showcase him.

Take what you can get now. It's a risk, but you're supposed to be competing this year. This has all the makings of being something that tears the team apart.