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Chicken Dinner
03-09-2008, 09:12 PM
If this guy is our bullpen answer, it's going to be a long season. And for all those Charlie Haeger fans, I don't think so.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_03_09_chamlb_sdnmlb_1

PeoriaSoxFan
03-09-2008, 09:25 PM
He definitely had a bad day today, but I'd say it is a little earlier to declare him a failure and write-off the year. Seeing how bad the pen was last year, I can understand why people would be keeping a finger on the panic button though.

chisox77
03-09-2008, 09:25 PM
It's that thin Arizona desert air.

veeter
03-09-2008, 09:32 PM
If I had a dollar for every bad, spring training outing, by a pitcher that went on to have a great year, I'd have...some money.

Sockinchisox
03-09-2008, 09:41 PM
If this guy is our bullpen answer, it's going to be a long season. And for all those Charlie Haeger fans, I don't think so.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_03_09_chamlb_sdnmlb_1

Where is this "again" you speak of?

Last appearence: 1 IP, 1 H

DeadMoney
03-09-2008, 09:55 PM
If this guy is our bullpen answer, it's going to be a long season. And for all those Charlie Haeger fans, I don't think so.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_03_09_chamlb_sdnmlb_1

He had no location today, whatsoever. Fix that, he has good stuff, he'll be fine.

Locate = pitch well.
Don't Locate = get rocked.

spiffie
03-09-2008, 10:04 PM
If I had a dollar for every bad, spring training outing, by a pitcher that went on to have a great year, I'd have...some money.
And if I had a dollar for every bad spring training outing by a pitcher who went on to have a crappy year I could buy and sell you and your paltry good pitching based fortune!

Craig Grebeck
03-09-2008, 10:12 PM
Dotel's always sucked in ST: http://thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Octavio-Dotel.shtml

Not to say I'm not concerned, but this is certainly not anomalous.

veeter
03-09-2008, 10:24 PM
And if I had a dollar for every bad spring training outing by a pitcher who went on to have a crappy year I could buy and sell you and your paltry good pitching based fortune!But the PE ratio of my GPBF fund is low, meaning my return is high. Dotel is not one of the holdings in that fund, so were o.k.

WhiteSox5187
03-09-2008, 10:52 PM
Well it is ONLY Spring Training and prior to today I have read he's been "dominating," but I saw his ERA is 7.20, so that doesn't add up...I'm worried about the bullpen obviously but I'm just as worried about the rotation, the lineup and the defense...this is why we play the games, in a little bit all of this will be sorted out.

It's Time
03-09-2008, 10:58 PM
The pen is a concern, no doubt. Aside from Jenks, I do not have a lot of confidence.

voodoochile
03-09-2008, 11:05 PM
Coming in to today, he had 4 appearances and had given up 1 ER.

Are people going to react this way every single time he has a rough outing and gives up 3 runs, because guess what... It's going to happen again before the season is over.

Hey if we are going to get all crazy over a crappy appearance, maybe we should start printing playoff tickets based on the performances of:

Contreras 3 GS 1-0 10 IP 3 ER ERA 2.70 WHIP 0.80 :o:
Danks 3 GS 0-0 9 IP 2 ER ERA 2.00 WHIP 1.11

And even Floyd who only gave up 2 ER in his single appearance this preseason. Even if his ERA is 6, that's only 4 ER over 6 innings which in most cases should give a team a fighting chance.

Buehrle and Thornton haven't given up an ER this spring either...

WOOHOO! Sign me up for October baseball

:?: :rolleyes:

voodoochile
03-09-2008, 11:07 PM
The pen is a concern, no doubt. Aside from Jenks, I do not have a lot of confidence.

I am shocked... SHOCKED do you hear me that you don't think good things about this team. Blow my mind... wow... ohmigawd... :?:

jabrch
03-09-2008, 11:09 PM
Coming in to today, he had 4 appearances and had given up 1 ER.

Are people going to react this way every single time he has a rough outing and gives up 3 runs, because guess what... It's going to happen again before the season is over.

Hey if we are going to get all crazy over a crappy appearance, maybe we should start printing playoff tickets based on the performances of:

Contreras 3 GS 1-0 10 IP 3 ER ERA 2.70 WHIP 0.80 :o:
Danks 3 GS 0-0 9 IP 2 ER ERA 2.00 WHIP 1.11

And even Floyd who only gave up 2 ER in his single appearance this preseason. Even if his ERA is 6, that's only 4 ER over 6 innings which in most cases should give a team a fighting chance.

Buehrle and Thornton haven't given up an ER this spring either...

WOOHOO! Sign me up for October baseball

:?: :rolleyes:


Great post Voo.

I still don't give a crap about ST stats. How are the guys playing? That's my Q.

Brian26
03-09-2008, 11:17 PM
Talk about a no-win situation. If it's MacDougal or Thornton getting knocked around for three runs, people are calling for KW's head because he didn't go out and improve the bullpen. He just signed arguably two of the top three bullpen pitchers available, and people are still complaining.

PalehosePlanet
03-10-2008, 12:08 AM
Talk about a no-win situation. If it's MacDougal or Thornton getting knocked around for three runs, people are calling for KW's head because he didn't go out and improve the bullpen. He just signed arguably two of the top three bullpen pitchers available, and people are still complaining.

Exactly right.

Also, I love how when a pitcher does great in an ST game the nay sayers will say Yeah, but it's just a spring training game. But if a guy has a bad outing in an ST game, then it's Oh no, this guy sucks!

GMAB people!

Not too mention that 2 of the 4 hits he gave up were cheap floaters.

RowanDye
03-10-2008, 12:17 AM
This is, admittedly, a bit of a tangent. But since this thread is ridiculous I don't care.

How are the Injuns being anointed to the throne pre-season when their closer is Joe Borowski?

What a bunch of crap. I mean look at his spring training stats (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=cle&baseballScope=CLE&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=all&statType=Overview&timeSubFrame=23&sitSplit=&venueID=&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1). (Should that be in teal? :D:)

spawn
03-10-2008, 08:27 AM
Are people going to react this way every single time he has a rough outing and gives up 3 runs,
In a word...yes, because pitchers are not suppse to have rough outings in ST. Not good ones anyway.

People seriously need to lighten up.

btrain929
03-10-2008, 11:40 AM
This is, admittedly, a bit of a tangent. But since this thread is ridiculous I don't care.

How are the Injuns being anointed to the throne pre-season when their closer is Joe Borowski?

What a bunch of crap. I mean look at his spring training stats (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=cle&baseballScope=CLE&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=all&statType=Overview&timeSubFrame=23&sitSplit=&venueID=&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1). (Should that be in teal? :D:)

They aren't. The Tigers are...

Huisj
03-10-2008, 12:07 PM
This is, admittedly, a bit of a tangent. But since this thread is ridiculous I don't care.

How are the Injuns being anointed to the throne pre-season when their closer is Joe Borowski?

What a bunch of crap. I mean look at his spring training stats (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=cle&baseballScope=CLE&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=all&statType=Overview&timeSubFrame=23&sitSplit=&venueID=&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1). (Should that be in teal? :D:)

Borowski looked bad on the ESPN game last Friday that I saw. Came in and immediately gave up a homer on a fat nothingball. So he looks about the same as last year. Odds are he won't be so lucky to get 45 saves or whatever this year if he again posts an ERA over 5.

btrain929
03-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Borowski looked bad on the ESPN game last Friday that I saw. Came in and immediately gave up a homer on a fat nothingball. So he looks about the same as last year. Odds are he won't be so lucky to get 45 saves or whatever this year if he again posts an ERA over 5.

Hopefully Todd Jones can duplicate that kind of effort as well this year...

doublem23
03-10-2008, 12:29 PM
Talk about a no-win situation. If it's MacDougal or Thornton getting knocked around for three runs, people are calling for KW's head because he didn't go out and improve the bullpen. He just signed arguably two of the top three bullpen pitchers available, and people are still complaining.

That's because we're all smarter than the guys in the front office. Just ask us! :cool:

Honestly, the Sox can pick up 10 games this year if the bullpen is just mediocre. We someone won 72 games last year with what was the absolute worst collective season I've ever seen a bullpen have. As long as they're not completely terrible again, I think this team is a lock for at least a .500 season, with plenty of room to go up from there.

Jurr
03-10-2008, 12:33 PM
Aren't we at least a week away from the point that pitchers stop working on specific parts of their game and really focus in on retiring hitters?

I know that it's a little different for young pitchers that are trying to make a name for themselves, but the vets do get a pass. If this stuff is carrying over to the last week of preseason, then we may have a tiny bit of concern.

russ99
03-11-2008, 01:57 PM
Dotel's also coming off an injury and needs work to get himself back into shape. I'd not worry about it at this point, but it could be a concern later on.