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View Full Version : Anybody else think this is TOTALLY unacceptable?


HaroMaster87
03-07-2008, 03:55 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080306-white-sox-toby-hall,0,6216957.story

How do they explain this? This guy had the entire offseason to rehab and find out if he is able to play and now he still cant throw??? He's been hurt for a year and now we pretty much "have our fingers crossed" that by the last 2 weeks of ST he might be able to play? Shouldn't this have been determined months ago?

Sorry...thats just unacceptable...Hope AJ is ready!

Boondock Saint
03-07-2008, 04:12 AM
Not healthy yet is not healthy yet. You can't be pissed at him for not healing quick enough. He and the team are doing all they can.

soxfanatlanta
03-07-2008, 06:36 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080306-white-sox-toby-hall,0,6216957.story

Interesting wording; calling Vasquez's missed start today a setback? His child was born! :scratch:

TomBradley72
03-07-2008, 07:26 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080306-white-sox-toby-hall,0,6216957.story

How do they explain this? This guy had the entire offseason to rehab and find out if he is able to play and now he still cant throw??? He's been hurt for a year and now we pretty much "have our fingers crossed" that by the last 2 weeks of ST he might be able to play? Shouldn't this have been determined months ago?

Sorry...thats just unacceptable...Hope AJ is ready!

I thought the same thing. My understanding is that he could have elected to have surgery to repair it...but elected to go the "treatment" route. Originally so he could come back and help the team last year. I doubt Toby Hall ever contributes anything to this team...start scouting our back up alternatives.

DSpivack
03-07-2008, 07:33 AM
Interesting wording; calling Vasquez's missed start today a setback? His child was born! :scratch:

Carlos Vasquez was scheduled to start a game?

soxfanatlanta
03-07-2008, 07:37 AM
Carlos Vasquez was scheduled to start a game?

Oops.

What did you expect from a 6:30 post? :redface:

bigdommer
03-07-2008, 08:17 AM
Donny Lucy is probably going to replace AJ at some point anyway, so...might not be a big deal.

roylestillman
03-07-2008, 10:03 AM
Donny Lucy is probably going to replace AJ at some point anyway, so...might not be a big deal.

I hope we take a long look at Cole Armstrong. His bat has been hot and he made a great play off a bunt the other day. He's young and needs to work on his throw to second, but I wouldn't dismiss him.

SoxWillWin
03-07-2008, 10:07 AM
From what I've seen of the catchers in spring training we shouldn't have a problem finding a one day a week fill in, but if AJ goes down we're in deep doo doo

russ99
03-07-2008, 10:13 AM
I hope we take a long look at Cole Armstrong. His bat has been hot and he made a great play off a bunt the other day. He's young and needs to work on his throw to second, but I wouldn't dismiss him.

Cole Armstrong has looked pretty good, but I think he's a year away. I'm not sure about Lucy being the guy going forward, since he's in the all-defense/no-hit mold of Karkovice. Plus A.J. is signed for 2 more years.

If Hall can't go, I'd hope the Sox look into another righty backup catcher that can hit major league pitching. It seems to me a bit ridiculous that he played with a torn labrum all season and then didn't have surgery after the season.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the other injuries. Nothing seems serious, and they are mostly due to intense workouts coming off the looser winter workout regimen.

Hitmen77
03-07-2008, 10:22 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080306-white-sox-toby-hall,0,6216957.story

How do they explain this? This guy had the entire offseason to rehab and find out if he is able to play and now he still cant throw??? He's been hurt for a year and now we pretty much "have our fingers crossed" that by the last 2 weeks of ST he might be able to play? Shouldn't this have been determined months ago?

Sorry...thats just unacceptable...Hope AJ is ready!

I'm so glad Toby Hall was given more work last spring by playing 1B, that worked out really well.

I'm not happy to read about it either. It's been almost a year since the injury and he's still not healed. Was surgery an option? If so, they should have done it 6 months ago. It's too late now if it has taken them a year to decide that Hall's shoulder isn't healing on its own.

The Immigrant
03-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Most injuries of this nature don't require surgery, so my guess is that both the Sox medical staff and his own doctor advised him to pursue treatment rather than surgery.

soxwon
03-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Donny Lucy is probably going to replace AJ at some point anyway, so...might not be a big deal.

lets get Marty Barrett!!!

soxwon
03-07-2008, 10:28 AM
I hope we take a long look at Cole Armstrong. His bat has been hot and he made a great play off a bunt the other day. He's young and needs to work on his throw to second, but I wouldn't dismiss him.

Cole Armstrong yea theres a real baseball name.
Not LIKE Donny LUCY !!!

PatK
03-07-2008, 10:35 AM
I think it's time to cut bait.

The Sox have had a bad habit the last 2 years of sticking with guys who are hurt and can't contribute as needed.

Rockin Robin
03-07-2008, 10:45 AM
I know it's only one play, but Armstrong started winning me over the other day when he jumped all over that bunt and fired it over to first like a pro. That looked real nice. I'm looking forward to him getting a little seasoning in AA/AAA

And then there's his seemingly decent bat.

santo=dorf
03-07-2008, 11:29 AM
Most injuries of this nature don't require surgery, so my guess is that both the Sox medical staff and his own doctor advised him to pursue treatment rather than surgery.
Are you kidding me? It was his throwing arm.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070326&content_id=1860209&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp
The next step for Hall, as explained by the catcher and general manager Ken Williams, will be for him to leave Arizona within the next day and see Dr. Lewis Yocum, the Angels' medical director, in Los Angeles. Hall also mentioned there might be a third opinion sought out on the injury in Tampa.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070327&content_id=1861938&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp
TEMPE, Ariz. -- Toby Hall will undergo a month-long rehabilitation program for his right shoulder before making a firm decision on surgery to repair a torn labrum. That plan was announced Monday by White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen and a team spokesman, who talked with athletic trainer Herm Schneider, prior to a Cactus League contest at Diablo Stadium against the Angels......

Although Hall has not seen Dr. Lewis Yocum, a renowned shoulder specialist who works with the Angels, he has been thoroughly evaluated by four doctors since injuring his shoulder Sunday while diving for a Ramon Vazquez ground ball while playing first base during the ninth inning of a game with Texas. Hall will be traveling this week to Tampa to be examined by Devil Rays team doctor Koco Eaton, who Hall formed a bond of trust with during his playing days there from 2000-2006.

So he didn't do what KW said before making a decision.

skottyj242
03-07-2008, 11:45 AM
That is TOTALLY unacceptable, how dare Gavin Floyd get the flu.


Leave Toby Hall alone.

Luke
03-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Shoulder injuries are really tricky. From what I understand, a separation can be treated surgically, but I've had orthopedic surgeons tell me that it can take longer heal than if left alone.

You just never know how an injury is going to react to treatment vs surgery. Surgery is not guarantee of a successful outcome. It can take a year or more for shoulder to get to full strength after even a minor injury.

Chicken Dinner
03-07-2008, 11:59 AM
Just another big waste of money.

Toby Hall c
2 years/$3.65M (2007-08), plus $2.25M 2009 club option

signed as a free agent 12/06
07:$1.75M, 08:$1.75M, 09:$2.25M club option ($0.15M buyout)

Bucky F. Dent
03-07-2008, 12:06 PM
"Unacceptable", no.
"Moderately distressing", yes.

It's Dankerific
03-07-2008, 12:27 PM
Burn Him!!!!!!!

The Immigrant
03-07-2008, 12:32 PM
Are you kidding me? It was his throwing arm.

I'm sure that Toby hall, who is entering a contract year, chose not to pursue the best medical option for healing his shoulder just so he could piss you off. GMAB.

It's disappointing that his shoulder hasn't healed because he was probably the worst player in MLB last year, but that's no reason to imply that he ignored any treatment options suggested by the Sox - especially since everything I've seen indicates that he and the team have been on the same page as far as his rehab is concerned.

chisox77
03-07-2008, 12:57 PM
Is Michael Barrett available?
(Good Hitter, fiery attitude)


:cool:

wilburaga
03-07-2008, 01:22 PM
If the 2008 Toby Hall is anything like the 2007 Toby Hall the Sox must look in another direction.

W

skottyj242
03-07-2008, 01:34 PM
Just another big waste of money.

Toby Hall c
2 years/$3.65M (2007-08), plus $2.25M 2009 club option

signed as a free agent 12/06
07:$1.75M, 08:$1.75M, 09:$2.25M club option ($0.15M buyout)

Yeah, you should try and get some of that back. Oh wait, you didn't pay for it. Go scratch. Leave Toby alone. It's not like he came into camp completely out of shape and he doesn't care, the guy is trying his hardest to be a contributor.

President of the Toby Hall fan club.

santo=dorf
03-07-2008, 01:35 PM
I'm sure that Toby hall, who is entering a contract year, chose not to pursue the best medical option for healing his shoulder just so he could piss you off. GMAB.
Wrong.

He chose not to get surgery AFTER THE INJURY last year after he signed a two year deal. He was not in a "contract year" at the time when he was deciding to get the surgery or not. A lot of us felt he should've been shut down in August and undergone the surgery. Fewer of us thought he should've gotten the surgery after a month of play. The 2007 Sox were dead by Memorial Day anyways.

Toby Hall is looking more and more like Jaime Navarro's personal catcher in terms of all-time free agent busts (yes, it was $3.65 million, but as a back up catcher he was one of the highest paid in the league and there was a lot of excitement over his signing) and performances by a White Sox catcher.

Fungo
03-07-2008, 01:38 PM
Just another big waste of money.

Toby Hall c
2 years/$3.65M (2007-08), plus $2.25M 2009 club option
signed as a free agent 12/06
07:$1.75M, 08:$1.75M, 09:$2.25M club option ($0.15M buyout)

Waste of money is right. 3 more RBIs last year than everyone who posts on WSI.

TDog
03-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Some of us who have been arguing since last season that the White Sox need (not as a priority, because needs appeared numerous) a backup catcher to replace Hall have been pessimistic about his prospects for full recovery. I don't consider this to be unacceptable news, totally or partially, because this is exactly what I expected.

I don't blame anyone for the injury. If a catcher can't fill in at first base without getting hurt, I wouldn't expect him to be a very durable catcher.

BRDSR
03-07-2008, 01:48 PM
Waste of money is right. 3 more RBIs last year than everyone who posts on WSI.

Wrong. I am really Mike Rouse, and I had 4 RBIs for the Cleveland Indians last year.

BRDSR
03-07-2008, 01:52 PM
I know it's only one play, but Armstrong started winning me over the other day when he jumped all over that bunt and fired it over to first like a pro. That looked real nice. I'm looking forward to him getting a little seasoning in AA/AAA

And then there's his seemingly decent bat.

I've been impressed with Phillips, although I have to admit I didn't know who he was until yesterday.

He's gotten a little playing time with the Royals each of the last four seasons and has 151 major league at bats. He has a .258 career average and a little power (8 doubles, 2 homers). He's also thrown out 11 of 20 basestealers at the major league level, or 55%. Contrast that to AJ who throws out about 33% on one of his best seasons.

Yesterday he picked up the Sox only RBI with a good piece of hitting to right field and barely missed gunning down a basestealer on a low pitch. Young catchers need to be playing 5 or 6 days a week. Phillips is 30 and has had (albeit in limited playing time) success at the major league level. I hope they take him north if Hall can't go.

FWIW, the Sox signed him to a minor league contract early this year. I think this might have been the plan all along if Hall couldn't start the season on the roster.

Corlose 15
03-07-2008, 01:58 PM
These injury threads are absolutely asinine.:rolleyes: I didn't realize there were so many medical experts on WSI that know exactly how a labrum is supposed to heal and that surgery is the best option.

He has worked with the Sox the whole time, consulted numerous doctors about his shoulder and went with what he felt was the best option. We are not privy to all the dialogue that goes on between Hall, his doctors, the Sox medical staff, and Ozzie and KW so to say he is being greedy or irresponsible is a bit naive.

Geeze, the only thing more annoying on this site than the armchair GM's operating in hindsight is the armchair orthopedic surgeons.

BRDSR
03-07-2008, 02:01 PM
He has worked with the Sox the whole time, consulted numerous doctors about his shoulder and went with what he felt was the best option.

Actually, to further strengthen your point, hasn't he probably gone with what the White Sox felt was the best option? I mean, aren't there generally provisions in a players contract that says that the team has final say over what types of treatments and/or surgeries a player is going to pursue?

The whole situation sucks, but it's not Hall's fault. He'd rather be playing than not. Lets get over it and jump on the Phillips bandwagon. :bandance:

jenn2080
03-07-2008, 02:09 PM
The only thing that is TOTALLY unacceptable is this thread.


It isnt like he is not trying or doesnt want to be out there all the time playing. He got ****ing hurt.

It's Dankerific
03-07-2008, 02:43 PM
I at least think its consistent to question the surgery/no surgery option with Toby when many people laid into Joe about his decision. Surgery on a shoulder is alot less risky (for regular life activities) than back surgery.

IlliniSox4Life
03-07-2008, 03:04 PM
How is it unacceptable? Are you not accepting it? Are you no longer a fan and refusing to go to games?

SoxyStu
03-07-2008, 03:08 PM
I understand he was hurt last year, tried to come back without surgery...fine.

During his return, he was atrocious. This cannot be debated, no matter how much you crush on him, Skot.

This atrociousness probably should have led him to make a decision to shut it down last year and have surgery so he could bounce back and have a fantastic 2008 (as he already had his contract). But, he didn't; he chose to ride it out. So the expectation he is at 100% for 2008 is a very realistic expectaction - no doubt about that. That's why I understand why people are seeing this as unacceptable. I could be on this side of the fence soon...

Ultimately, declaring his not being ready unacceptable is premature, in my opinion, because of what little the public knows of the facts and the season hasn't even gotten rolling yet. However, I think Hall may have some 'splainin to do if 2008 doesn't go well. Possibly Dr. Herm may 'splaining to do for it, too.

Chez
03-07-2008, 03:08 PM
Wasn't one of the reason's Hall elected to not have the surgery last year was because he wanted to try to come back to contribute in 2007? If he was selfish, he could have elected to immediately have the surgery in March, 2007 thereby missing the entire 2007 season but increasing the likelihood that he would have been as good as new for the 2008 season (all while cashing his White Sox paycheck). Absolutely no reason to hate on Toby.

jenn2080
03-07-2008, 03:20 PM
Wasn't one of the reason's Hall elected to not have the surgery last year was because he wanted to try to come back to contribute in 2006? If he was selfish, he could have elected to immediately have the surgery in March, 2006 thereby missing the entire 2006 season but increasing the likelihood that he would have been as good as new for the 2007 season (all while cashing his White Sox paycheck). Absolutely no reason to hate on Toby.


That would cool if he was on the team in 2006.:D:

kittle42
03-07-2008, 03:22 PM
The only thing that is TOTALLY unacceptable is this thread.


It isnt like he is not trying or doesnt want to be out there all the time playing. He got ****ing hurt.

How is it unacceptable? Are you not accepting it? Are you no longer a fan and refusing to go to games?

QFT

Chez
03-07-2008, 03:22 PM
That would cool if he was on the team in 2006.:D:
Sorry, it always takes me until April to figure out what year we are in! :smile:

skottyj242
03-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Okay guys, you have done it, you have convinced me. I officially hate Toby Hall now. Thanks for making me see how dumb I was.

jenn2080
03-07-2008, 03:27 PM
QFT


What does QTF mean?

Hitmen77
03-07-2008, 03:31 PM
What does QTF mean?

I'm not sure what QTF stands for, but QFT could stand for one of the following:

http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=qft&Find=find&string=exact

I think it's Quantum Field Theory.

Shoeless
03-07-2008, 03:40 PM
These injury threads are absolutely asinine.:rolleyes:
Exception: See Also: Mark Prior

PalehosePlanet
03-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Is Michael Barrett available?
(Good Hitter, fiery attitude)


:cool:

He's available, no one wants him.

The Padres got burned by offering him arbitration, thinking they would receive a draft pick when he left via FA. Instead he found no takers and accepted arbitration.

I could hear Kevin Towers from here yelling DOH!!

HaroMaster87
03-08-2008, 02:11 PM
The only thing that is TOTALLY unacceptable is this thread.


It isnt like he is not trying or doesnt want to be out there all the time playing. He got ****ing hurt.

Ummmmm...try READING my original post, not just the thread title.


What's unacceptable is that there in no major league ready alternative ready at the position...that was my point.

I think I know he didn't get hurt on purpose.....geeeez

BRDSR
03-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Doesn't look like this (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080310&content_id=2417910&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) has been posted anywhere.

"So this was a big day. That's the hump I wanted to get over. From Day 1, this is what they had going. You come out here in the first week and a half and try to hump up and do something, but that's going to set you back. Their game plan was awesome."
~Toby Hall


Pretty optimistic article, which is good but I'll take it for what it's worth: a good first day. Hope he can continue to go out there pain free for a few weeks and string together some hits and keep looking comfortable.

jenn2080
03-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Ummmmm...try READING my original post, not just the thread title.


What's unacceptable is that there in no major league ready alternative ready at the position...that was my point.

I think I know he didn't get hurt on purpose.....geeeez


I did read it. Maybe you should make yourself more clear.

How do they explain this? This guy had the entire offseason to rehab and find out if he is able to play and now he still cant throw??? He's been hurt for a year and now we pretty much "have our fingers crossed" that by the last 2 weeks of ST he might be able to play? Shouldn't this have been determined months ago?

Sorry...thats just unacceptable...Hope AJ is ready!