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View Full Version : Lowry Anyone for a Trade? Yikes!


havelj
03-03-2008, 05:32 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/lowry-anyone.html

"The White Sox sent a scout to Scottsdale to watch San Francisco left-hander Noah Lowry pitch against Texas. Lowry walked seven and heaved two wild pitches in the first inning."

It got worse.

oeo
03-03-2008, 05:35 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/lowry-anyone.html

"The White Sox sent a scout to Scottsdale to watch San Francisco left-hander Noah Lowry pitch against Texas. Lowry walked seven and heaved two wild pitches in the first inning."

It got worse.

Sounds like good news for us, unless this is another project guy, which wouldn't surprise me.

DumpJerry
03-03-2008, 05:37 PM
He was nervous about the scouts being there.:rolleyes:

rdivaldi
03-03-2008, 05:37 PM
Hopefully this will end the Lowry love affair. Someone called into the Score this weekend and said that he was going to be a star if traded to the White Sox. All I could think was, "Have you ever seen him pitch?"

oeo
03-03-2008, 05:38 PM
Hopefully this will end the Lowry love affair. Someone called into the Score this weekend and said that he was going to be a star if traded to the White Sox. All I could think was, "Have you ever seen him pitch?"

Take a look at Gavin Floyd, Nick Masset, Andrew Sisco, David Aardsma...this team loves projects. Always looking for the diamond in the rough.

Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if the Sox still went after him and had them add another crap A pitcher + some cash.

turners56
03-03-2008, 05:48 PM
How the hell is Lowry a project, look the guy's stats up. He's been in the Giants rotation for 3 straight years. However, looking back at last year's stats and this performance...Lowry's health is a problem.

rdivaldi
03-03-2008, 06:02 PM
How the hell is Lowry a project, look the guy's stats up. He's been in the Giants rotation for 3 straight years. However, looking back at last year's stats and this performance...Lowry's health is a problem.

His control is gone at this point, thus a project.

Lip Man 1
03-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Well considering MacDougal and Logan got lit up again today versus the Royals you never know what Kenny might be thinking.

Lip

btrain929
03-03-2008, 06:13 PM
They need a 3B?

Micah Schnurstein for Noah Lowry. Get after it, KW.

HomeFish
03-03-2008, 06:13 PM
The Sox are so bad right now that if I were at risk of being traded to them, I'd cough it up too -- especially in a meaningless ST game.

goon
03-03-2008, 06:15 PM
The Sox are so bad right now that if I were at risk of being traded to them, I'd cough it up too -- especially in a meaningless ST game.

Yeah because the Giants are such an amazing team.

dickallen15
03-03-2008, 06:16 PM
His control is gone at this point, thus a project.
Considering he never had the control problems he's now having, his health, specifically his elbow is a major concern.

oeo
03-03-2008, 06:31 PM
Well considering MacDougal and Logan got lit up again today versus the Royals you never know what Kenny might be thinking.

Lip

I have to ask...did you watch the game today?

If getting lit up is giving up a chopper over a drawn-in 3B (I think...all I know is that's a play that needs to be made), and a blooper, then I guess Boone was terrible today. I thought Logan looked good. The walk was bad, but he was unlucky the rest of that inning. Another example of how box scores don't tell you the whole story.

MacDougal did get lit up, though. Which really makes me think the guy should just take a year off or something, and come back.

LoveYourSuit
03-03-2008, 06:40 PM
Thornton's health issues might be a red flag right now to go out and get another LH starter in order to move perhaps a guy like Danks into the bullpen.

I would not mind seeing Danks get another year under his belt maybe in short relief, might give him time to develop a much needed 3rd pitch (like the cutter he is working on right now).


Lowry as a #5 would not be soo bad in my book.


What's the outlook on Thornton right now?

oeo
03-03-2008, 06:42 PM
Lowry as a #5 would not be soo bad in my book.

Did you just read the kind of first inning he had? I don't want that guy touching the bullpen, let alone the rotation. He would belong in Charlotte.

What's the outlook on Thornton right now?They're supposedly taking him at his own pace, but he should be ready to go by Opening Day.

rdivaldi
03-03-2008, 06:46 PM
The Sox are so bad right now

:?:

We're tearing the cover off the ball and getting good performances from all our starters sans Vazquez.

oeo
03-03-2008, 06:47 PM
:?:

We're tearing the cover off the ball and getting good performances from all our starters sans Vazquez.

It's HomeFish. He can't wait to indulge in some Twinkies games this year.

rdivaldi
03-03-2008, 06:50 PM
Considering he never had the control problems he's now having, his health, specifically his elbow is a major concern.

If you look at his peripherals, his K/BB has been declining over the past couple of years. There's always a good chance that it's something physical, but I can't help but think that it's becoming a mental thing with him.

kittle42
03-03-2008, 06:54 PM
The Sox are so bad right now that if I were at risk of being traded to them, I'd cough it up too -- especially in a meaningless ST game.

I am one of the bigger pessimists around here, but you really need to just stop watching baseball.

Tragg
03-03-2008, 07:41 PM
Take a look at Gavin Floyd, Nick Masset, Andrew Sisco, David Aardsma...this team loves projects. Always looking for the diamond in the rough.

Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if the Sox still went after him and had them add another crap A pitcher + some cash.
If he's a project, we should send the Giants a crap A pitcher for him and some cash.
No serious talent for him.

Taliesinrk
03-03-2008, 07:52 PM
I have to ask...did you watch the game today?

If getting lit up is giving up a chopper over a drawn-in 3B (I think...all I know is that's a play that needs to be made), and a blooper, then I guess Boone was terrible today. I thought Logan looked good. The walk was bad, but he was unlucky the rest of that inning. Another example of how box scores don't tell you the whole story.

MacDougal did get lit up, though. Which really makes me think the guy should just take a year off or something, and come back.

That's what I was going to say. Don't give up a leadoff walk it that situation, but I guess that's why we won't be seeing Boone close out any games this year. The others were far from getting lit up... just a bad day.

rocky biddle
03-03-2008, 07:53 PM
On Chicago Tribune Live they said he had 9 walks.

Coop can fix him...

oeo
03-03-2008, 08:00 PM
That's what I was going to say. Don't give up a leadoff walk it that situation, but I guess that's why we won't be seeing Boone close out any games this year. The others were far from getting lit up... just a bad day.

IIRC, he struck the first guy out, so it wasn't a leadoff walk.

Things just seemed to implode, kind of like last year. Except every guy on the field will not be touching the big league squad this year (I still think Fields makes the play on the chopper, and that would have changed everything).

I think the only main negative from the game today would have to be MacDougal. Jenks got hit a little bit, too, but he was unlucky, as well. So other than MacDougal, I like the way the team is looking so far.

swisherfan
03-03-2008, 08:44 PM
Thornton going tomorrow vs Halos.........Contreras vs Santana......if Crede does go to Giants would like to see us go after Corretja.........solid bullpen/long relief guy who could be a #5..........

Flight #24
03-03-2008, 08:47 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/lowry-anyone.html

"The White Sox sent a scout to Scottsdale to watch San Francisco left-hander Noah Lowry pitch against Texas. Lowry walked seven and heaved two wild pitches in the first inning."

It got worse.

Sounds like he'd fit right into last year's team. This year.....hopefully not so much.

One only hopes that this isn't a case of "Kenny getting his man". If he's been fixated on Lowry for a bit, this isn't likely to dissuade him.

I'd rather wait until Crede shows he's healthy & productive, even if it means Fields starts out in AAA. Wait it out until you get something better than someone else's project (ala Sisco, Masset, AAAAArdsma, etc.)

getonbckthr
03-03-2008, 09:06 PM
Uribe could play 3rd.

Lip Man 1
03-03-2008, 10:24 PM
OEO:

Logan gave up two runs in his outing a few days ago as well didn't he? Was he "unlucky" then too?

His job is to get people out...it's not happening.

Lip

oeo
03-03-2008, 10:27 PM
OEO:

Logan gave up two runs in his outing a few days ago as well didn't he? Was he "unlucky" then too?

I have no idea, I didn't see it.

His job is to get people out...it's not happening.You said he was getting 'lit up,' which couldn't be farther from the truth.

And I don't expect zeroes going up this early in Spring Training, anyway. These guys are getting back into their rhythms; not every guy comes flying out of the gates. Please hold your 'evaluations' off for another week or two. If they're still struggling to get outs, then there should be some concern.

I'm really surprised that someone that has been around the game as long as you have gets all worried on March 3rd.

btrain929
03-03-2008, 10:58 PM
Uribe could play 3rd.

And why in the **** would we want that?

btrain929
03-03-2008, 11:02 PM
I have no idea, I didn't see it.

You said he was getting 'lit up,' which couldn't be farther from the truth.

And I don't expect zeroes going up this early in Spring Training, anyway. These guys are getting back into their rhythms; not every guy comes flying out of the gates. Please hold your 'evaluations' off for another week or two. If they're still struggling to get outs, then there should be some concern.

I'm really surprised that someone that has been around the game as long as you have gets all worried on March 3rd.

I agree. I was mad at work when I saw Logan cruised through the 8th, and gave them the game in the 9th. But I just got done watching the replay, and Boone definitely got hosed/unlucky in that 9th inning.

On the chopper that went over the 3B head (some schmuck), he was playing even with the bag, maybe even a step in with 1 out and 1 on. No way is that guy bunting, so you need to be a good 5-8 steps behind the bag. He does that, he has a force at 2nd, 2 outs.

Then, on the RBI single, he threw a pitch at the batter's ankles, and he hit it off the end of the bat into shallow left-center. The only thing I can blame him for is the 9th inning walk. Besides that, I think he had a good outing tonight, even though the numbers aren't going to support that. He made just about every batter up there look silly and one point or another.

Chicken Dinner
03-04-2008, 12:52 AM
Well considering MacDougal and Logan got lit up again today versus the Royals you never know what Kenny might be thinking.

Lip

If 2 earned runs is getting lit up, throw Jenks in there too.

Lip Man 1
03-04-2008, 12:11 PM
Bobby Jenks has earned the right to be cut some slack in spring training.

MacDougal and Logan, part of perhaps the worst bullpen in franchise history in 2007, have not earned that courtesy.

Lip

oeo
03-04-2008, 12:13 PM
MacDougal and Logan, part of perhaps the worst bullpen in franchise history in 2007, have not earned that courtesy.

I think you're forgetting that Logan has been learning on the fly the last couple of years. He hopped to the big leagues at 21 (straight from A), and is currently only 23. He shouldn't be put in the same category as Mike MacDougal who is 31 and getting paid a lot of money.

btrain929
03-04-2008, 12:15 PM
I think you're forgetting that Logan has been learning on the fly the last couple of years. He hopped to the big leagues at 21, and is currently only 23. He shouldn't be put in the same category as Mike MacDougal.

Agreed. And I wrote a pretty thorough recap of Logan's outing yesterday on Page 2 of this thread near the bottom. He didn't get lit up at all. He was making people look goofy and only made 1 mistake (a walk). Besides that, a bloop hit off the end of the bat and a misplayed ball by his 3B is what caused the runs to score in the 9th.

PalehosePlanet
03-04-2008, 05:08 PM
Apparently Lowry is hurting: Tendinitis in his throwing thumb and wrist. He states that he could not grip the ball and that this was the sole reason for his loss of control.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080304&content_id=2404741&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Lip Man 1
03-04-2008, 07:26 PM
Btrain:

And again I ask what happened the first time around...he allowed two runs. Unlucky I guess.....

Look given Thornton's status, I hope Logan CAN actually put together a good year. The Sox need a capable left hander out of the pen. But absolutely nothing in his 'entire' big league career makes me think this is going to happen.

From his psychological breakdown (by his own admission) in Tampa to getting blasted by left handers last year (he gave up some key home runs...) the signs are not encouraging.

I mean do you honestly want a guy who lost it against Tampa for God's sake, on the mound in August in a pennant race?

Lip

TheVulture
03-04-2008, 07:48 PM
And why in the **** would we want that?
Maybe he was suggesting the Giants might want that.

btrain929
03-04-2008, 08:07 PM
Maybe he was suggesting the Giants might want that.

Well that's the problem. He didn't expand on anything, all he said was "Uribe could play 3B..."

The Giants have current injuries at SS and 2B. If for some reason they pursued or traded for Uribe, it wouldn't be for 3B.

btrain929
03-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Btrain:

And again I ask what happened the first time around...he allowed two runs. Unlucky I guess.....

Look given Thornton's status, I hope Logan CAN actually put together a good year. The Sox need a capable left hander out of the pen. But absolutely nothing in his 'entire' big league career makes me think this is going to happen.

From his psychological breakdown (by his own admission) in Tampa to getting blasted by left handers last year (he gave up some key home runs...) the signs are not encouraging.

I mean do you honestly want a guy who lost it against Tampa for God's sake, on the mound in August in a pennant race?

Lip

The one thing I'll give you is nothing is certain. He can come out and have an ERA in the low 3's and have opponents hit .190 off of him, or he can go Neil Cotts on us. Only time will tell.

I didn't see his first outing where he gave up 2 runs, so I don't know if he got knocked around or not, I just know that the 2nd outing he didn't. Oh well. We can only hope he can get it together and keep it like that for, oh I don't know, a full season...

Brian26
03-04-2008, 08:34 PM
They need a 3B?

Micah Schnurstein for Noah Lowry. Get after it, KW.

:rolling:
:thumbsup:

TomBradley72
03-04-2008, 08:49 PM
I think you're forgetting that Logan has been learning on the fly the last couple of years. He hopped to the big leagues at 21 (straight from A), and is currently only 23. He shouldn't be put in the same category as Mike MacDougal who is 31 and getting paid a lot of money.

The thing with Logan is you have to use him ONLY as a specialist against LHs....his stats against RHs are horrible...stats against LHs (even last year) are solid. Same goes for Thornton.

Lip Man 1
03-04-2008, 10:09 PM
Last year Thornton was more effective against right handers then against left handers based on how they hit against him (batting averages).

Yet Ozzie kept trotting him out to get hit by left handers.

Lip

kittle42
03-04-2008, 10:12 PM
Last year Thornton was more effective against right handers then against left handers based on how they hit against him (batting averages).

Yet Ozzie kept trotting him out to get hit by left handers.

Lip


That's because when it comes to that kind of stuff, Ozzie is apparently an idiot.

TomBradley72
03-04-2008, 11:07 PM
2007 Stats:

Logan vs. LH: 2.35 ERA
Thornton vs. LH: 1.96 ERA

Neither of these guys are perfect...but they really get exposed if they have to stay in against RHs...if we can minimize that in 2008 (which means Linebrink and Dotel come through where MacDougal, Aardsma, etc. did not) they could be effective.

Tragg
03-04-2008, 11:10 PM
2007 Stats:

Logan vs. LH: 2.35 ERA
Thornton vs. LH: 1.96 ERA

Neither of these guys are perfect...but they really get exposed if they have to stay in against RHs...if we can minimize that in 2008 (which means Linebrink and Dotel come through where MacDougal, Aardsma, etc. did not) they could be effective.

Two situational lefties, however, is a bit much. (we had 0 in 2005, e.g.). It doesn't give you much flexibility if 2 pitchers are virtually useless against the other side of the plate. I thought, however, that those guys were okay verus righties - not good, but passable, but I never ran the numbers.

champagne030
03-04-2008, 11:28 PM
Last year Thornton was more effective against right handers then against left handers based on how they hit against him (batting averages).

Yet Ozzie kept trotting him out to get hit by left handers.

Lip

Righty vs. Righty ; Lefty vs. Lefty.......I guess we don't look at scouting reports.......:screwloose:

oeo
03-04-2008, 11:50 PM
Btrain:

And again I ask what happened the first time around...he allowed two runs. Unlucky I guess.....

Yes, please keep mocking me.

Look, I'm willing to admit when a guy gets lit up. Logan did not get lit up yesterday, and if you saw the game (I hope you're just looking at the box score), you would realize it. Nine times out of ten, that inning yesterday does not happen. It's not like he was giving up hard-hit balls...I don't think he gave up a single one. He was making guys look silly, and got unlucky a couple of times. It happens.

Keep drawing conclusions, though.

BTW, you probably still think Wassermann is garbage (which has been your judgment since day one), right?

Man Soo Lee
03-05-2008, 12:25 AM
Last year Thornton was more effective against right handers then against left handers based on how they hit against him (batting averages).

Yet Ozzie kept trotting him out to get hit by left handers.

Lip

Thornton was tougher on lefties in 2006.

Except in extreme cases, like Wassermann, I wouldn't read too much into a reliever's split stats that are based on ~100 ABs. The difference in Thornton's splits amounts to two hits.

Optipessimism
03-05-2008, 02:12 AM
Last year Thornton was more effective against right handers then against left handers based on how they hit against him (batting averages).

Yet Ozzie kept trotting him out to get hit by left handers.

Lip
Lefties should be able to get lefties out. Righties should be able to get righties out.

In the case of a guy like Wassermann, and before that from the lefty side Kelly Wunsch, they are strictly specialists and should only be used in that capacity. The day Kelly stopped being effective against lefties he was out of baseball, and it will be the same for Ehren, although hopefully Ehren sticks around quite a bit longer.

In Thornton's case, he should be able to get both lefties and righties out since he has the stuff to do it and he usually isn't pitching more than one inning. Even though Logan has a specialist role, or at least was used that way last year for the most part, I put him in the same boat. They both have the stuff to get the outs, so they need to get the outs. They don't have the excuses some others have, so if they can't get it done then they're not going to be very good pitchers.

It's one thing if a guy is struggling in a certain area, then maybe the manager will play to his current strengths to get him on track. But when you're talking about someone with the tools to get it done, especially in a situation that was as bad as our pen last year, it's hard to fault a manager for going to a guy like Thornton in any situation, unless of course you're going to him in a tight situation after he's been struggling and another, clearly better option is available.

Lip Man 1
03-05-2008, 01:02 PM
Folks:

The comment made was about using Thornton LAST YEAR... nothing was mentioned about 2006. I simply related the stats from the year which showed Thornton a left hander got hit worse by left handers, yet he kept being used by Ozzie to get them out.

OEO:

Actually we are both wrong. According to a story in today's Sun-Times on the Sox bullpen so far this spring, Logan has allowed 5 runs in 3 1/3rd innings. That story was rather less then complimentary by the way.

And you're talking about the same guy in Wassermann who is slated at best to be the 7th guy out of the bullpen right? That's even IF he makes the club. Not exactly Mariano Rivera material eh? I guess he wasn't that impressive to the powers that be last season.

Lip

Jerko
03-05-2008, 01:18 PM
Folks:

The comment made was about using Thornton LAST YEAR... nothing was mentioned about 2006. I simply related the stats from the year which showed Thornton a left hander got hit worse by left handers, yet he kept being used by Ozzie to get them out.



And it started in game 2 last year with Thornton and lefties and kept happening throughout the year. I hope to HELL that Linebrink/Dotel can be the 7th and 8th inning guys by themselves and we don't have to worry about the lefty righty garbage for EVERY batter that faces us after the 6th inning this year. God was that annoying. What's worse, is it seemed like half of the time that our lefties didn't get the job done against the lefty they were brought in to face, they got hammered by the next righty they faced because we had to leave them in there because we were on our 4th pitcher of the inning. That ****'s got to stop. Make one guy the 7th inning guy, one guy the 8th inning guy, and that's it. If a starter goes 7 deep, and Linebrink or Dotel are hot, use that guy for the 8th. I know everybody gets hit sooner or later but how many times did we see the same **** happen in the same order with the same result last year? Way too many.

SoxWillWin
03-05-2008, 01:31 PM
Seeing as how this is my first day back, I'm not sure if this has been talked about.

One of those lovely "Internet Reports" Said that the Sox were scouting Noah Lowry of the giants...

Now seeing as how most of our main competition in the central has a predominately right handed lineup, And providing Danks makes the rotation, would running 3 lefties in our rotation be wise against that much right handed pop?

Just a though that's been bouncin around in my half empty head.

soxfan13
03-05-2008, 01:35 PM
Here ya go buddy!!

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=96908

SoxWillWin
03-05-2008, 01:36 PM
figures...nvm lol