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Sockinchisox
03-02-2008, 07:38 PM
There is a blurb in BP's Every Give Sunday article about the Sox having interest in trading for the A's Mark Ellis.

I can't post the article because it's for BP subscribers only.

I don't see this happening considering all 2B candidates we have, but who knows.

Edit: This is also up at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)

Rockabilly
03-02-2008, 07:38 PM
Reports from Baseball Prospective and here in Ca that the Sox are very interested in Ellis.

Huisj
03-02-2008, 07:46 PM
To play 2B? Is that really the direction they would want to go? He's a decent player, but he'll be 31 this year, and he's coming off a career year, so he'd cost about as much as he ever will right now. Somehow, it just doesn't make sense that the Sox would want him now, unless Oakland would take Uribe for him (but they wouldn't because that would make no sense for them).

oeo
03-02-2008, 07:49 PM
Another 2B?

I know he's proven, but it doesn't make much sense. He is a damn good defender and has a decent bat, which makes it intriguing, but again, doesn't make sense.

SoxNation05
03-02-2008, 07:49 PM
Rockabilly, where do you hear all of these things?

Rockabilly
03-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Ellis would be a solid pickup..

Rockabilly
03-02-2008, 07:55 PM
Rockabilly, where do you hear all of these things?

A radio report here in the bay area as well as mlb trade rumors from a report on BP

oeo
03-02-2008, 07:57 PM
To play 2B? Is that really the direction they would want to go? He's a decent player, but he'll be 31 this year, and he's coming off a career year, so he'd cost about as much as he ever will right now. Somehow, it just doesn't make sense that the Sox would want him now, unless Oakland would take Uribe for him (but they wouldn't because that would make no sense for them).

He's a free agent after this year, so age shouldn't be the main concern.

I don't know if we're in a situation to rent players, though. Maybe make this deal at the deadline if we're still in the race and having trouble at 2B, but not now when we have three guys competing for the job.

This could make sense in July...just not now.

sox1970
03-02-2008, 07:57 PM
Masset and Richar enough?

btrain929
03-02-2008, 08:01 PM
Isn't he another guy in his contract year? That would lead to an interesting offseason with both him and Cabrera as free agents...

If the A's don't ask for much for him (Richar plus a pitcher), I'd say go for it. I'm personally higher on Bourgeois than Richar as a future White Sox 2B. But I think they recently moved him to CF, so that gives us Bourgeois and Alexei and, to an extent, John Shelby, that can play CF and part of the middle infield, which makes Richar expendable.

Either way, it all depends on the A's asking price and the KW counter offers.

getonbckthr
03-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Why? We don't need him and we shouldn't want him.

jabrch
03-02-2008, 08:15 PM
I usually don't get mad either way about moves that we make. But if we were to acquire Ellis, with the intent of playing him every day, I'd really be pissed. The only way I am ok taking Ellis is if he comes with Blanton or Harden.

munchman33
03-02-2008, 08:31 PM
Another 2B?

I know he's proven, but it doesn't make much sense. He is a damn good defender and has a decent bat, which makes it intriguing, but again, doesn't make sense.

Okay. Ask yourself which of our four candadites for 2B fit all that criteria.

There's a reason we have four candadites for 2B. No one stands out. Ellis would. If we're serious about this year, Ellis answers a huge question mark.

getonbckthr
03-02-2008, 08:35 PM
Okay. Ask yourself which of our four candadites for 2B fit all that criteria.

There's a reason we have four candadites for 2B. No one stands out. Ellis would. If we're serious about this year, Ellis answers a huge question mark.
Ellis isn't that good. He isn't much better than anything we have now. I would play Richar or Ramirez than give up something for Ellis.

oeo
03-02-2008, 08:39 PM
Okay. Ask yourself which of our four candadites for 2B fit all that criteria.

Well, two of them we have no idea about. If it doesn't work out, then I think you look at someone like Ellis. Right now, we already have a logjam as it is at 2B.

There's a reason we have four candadites for 2B. No one stands out. Ellis would. If we're serious about this year, Ellis answers a huge question mark.2B ranks about 5th on my question mark list. If we have problems there, then you make a move. Right now, things look bright for 2B, though. Everybody has been playing well...let's see how this works out.

Please don't tell me you're willing to trade more of our future HOF'ers in order to get him. You're the last person I think would want to make a move like this.

munchman33
03-02-2008, 08:42 PM
Ellis isn't that good. He isn't much better than anything we have now. I would play Richar or Ramirez than give up something for Ellis.

Haha...well, I can't say much about Ramirez, but Richar doesn't touch Ellis defensively (Ellis's zone rating last year was twice the next guy). And he hasn't yet shown he can outhit him either.

Cabrera - Ellis would be the best double-play combo in the majors. It makes sense with what Ozzie is trying to do that Kenny would be after this guy.

getonbckthr
03-02-2008, 08:44 PM
You kids and your zone ratings.

munchman33
03-02-2008, 08:47 PM
Well, two of them we have no idea about. If it doesn't work out, then I think you look at someone like Ellis. Right now, we already have a logjam as it is at 2B.

2B ranks about 5th on my question mark list. If we have problems there, then you make a move. Right now, things look bright for 2B, though. Everybody has been playing well...let's see how this works out.

Please don't tell me you're willing to trade more of our future HOF'ers in order to get him. You're the last person I think would want to make a move like this.

My opinion on DLS has nothing to do with my opinion on any other prospect. He's the only one I was upset over moving. Generally, I couldn't give a damn about our prospects. They usually don't pan out. I was upset that we dealt the one that probably will.

A question mark is still a question mark, whether or not you have others. If Kenny's serious about competing, he will as many as he can right now. It'll be hard enough to trade for three starting pitchers mid season.

munchman33
03-02-2008, 08:48 PM
You kids and your zone ratings.

Okay, fine. Anyone who has watched Mark Ellis and Danny Richar both play will tell you Ellis is about a million times better defensively. Unless that person is Danny Richar. Seriously, Ellis is probably the best defensive second basebmen in baseball right now.

btrain929
03-02-2008, 08:49 PM
For the sake of argument, let's say we do get Ellis (which I doubt, because once a rumor comes out involving the White Sox interested in someone, it hardly comes true). Where in the lineup did he bat for OAK? I know last year and '05 he had solid years at the plate. Would he be a feasible leadoff candidate? I know he doesn't steal bases, but that would be a breath of fresh air if he could bat 1 and Cabrera could bat 2, when we have the bottom of our order stacked with Dye/Swisher/Fields hitting 5-7.

getonbckthr
03-02-2008, 08:57 PM
Okay, fine. Anyone who has watched Mark Ellis and Danny Richar both play will tell you Ellis is about a million times better defensively. Unless that person is Danny Richar. Seriously, Ellis is probably the best defensive second basebmen in baseball right now.
Richar is a rookie so naturally Ellis is gonna look better. Why do so many people have problems with letting our kids play?

btrain929
03-02-2008, 09:02 PM
Richar is a rookie so naturally Ellis is gonna look better. Why do so many people have problems with letting our kids play?

Ask Kenny...

If we can get him for spare parts, there's no reason not to like this move.

getonbckthr
03-02-2008, 09:04 PM
Ask Kenny...

If we can get him for spare parts, there's no reason not to like this move.
I don't think he would be worth it when we have 3 guys perfectly capable of doing the job.

oeo
03-02-2008, 09:06 PM
Ask Kenny...

If we can get him for spare parts, there's no reason not to like this move.

What makes you think we can get him for 'spare parts?'

I'd say he's very underrated. He's not some piece of crap like getonbckthr seems to think.

Right now, I feel we're in a good situation at 2B. We have three guys that could win the job, two of which are playing very well, the other we haven't even seen yet. That doesn't mean it's not going to be a problem, but right now, things look bright. If there are problems, then make a move.

btrain929
03-02-2008, 09:10 PM
What makes you think we can get him for 'spare parts?'

I'd say he's very underrated. He's not some piece of crap like getonbckthr seems to think.

Right now, I feel we're in a good situation at 2B. We have three guys that could win the job, two of which are playing very well, the other we haven't even seen yet. That doesn't mean it's not going to be a problem, but right now, things look bright. If there are problems, then make a move.

That's my point. I DON'T think we can get him for spare parts, therefore I DON'T think he's worth pursuing and I don't think we will get him. I'm perfectly fine with Richar/Ramirez at 2B. The only way I'd be ok with getting Ellis is if we don't give up much. But knowing Beane, he'll demand a lot, which will make the move not worth it.

Tragg
03-02-2008, 09:59 PM
This is a strange rumor.

He's coming off of 2 bad offensive years in a row. Another 30+ year old low obp ballplayer at a position in which you don't need to accept bad offense. FA to be.
We gave up a top prosepct for Richar. Play him.
Nothing to be gained with a bad hitter clogging things up.
Trade Uribe for him....or the Philly GM's son that we got for Iguchi - same level of player.

santo=dorf
03-02-2008, 10:12 PM
Mark Ellis away from Oakland last year: .293/.357/.450/.807 To put it in comparison, Nick Swisher is having some Sox fans to expect MVP numbers or at least surpassing Jim Thome. Swisher away Oakland last year: .270/.376/.474/.850

So I guess Ellis would be a batting title contender? :scratch:

Based on his career, Ellis would be best lower in the order: 8th spot numbers: .307/.373/.456

He's making $5 million this year (free agent after this year too,) so he shouldn't cost that much (more than scraps however.) If the Sox can dump Crede and/or Uribe, I'd go for it.

soxfan43
03-02-2008, 10:32 PM
I like the idea, but I don't see it happening until the offload Uribe. The salaries are pretty close, so if Uribe goes, Ellis could be a good fit. Richar didn't do enough to convince me he's an everyday ballplayer lastyear, and who knows if Ramirez is ready to be a fulle time 2b at the major league level.

oeo
03-02-2008, 11:15 PM
This is a strange rumor.

He's coming off of 2 bad offensive years in a row. Another 30+ year old low obp ballplayer at a position in which you don't need to accept bad offense. FA to be.
We gave up a top prosepct for Richar. Play him.
Nothing to be gained with a bad hitter clogging things up.
Trade Uribe for him....or the Philly GM's son that we got for Iguchi - same level of player.

Last year was a bad offensive year? :?:

I mean, it wasn't All Star worthy, but it definitely wasn't bad. I would have taken that from our 2B.

Does everyone hit .350 and get on base at a .450 clip in Tragg's world?

fozzy
03-03-2008, 12:39 AM
With a decent year Ellis is going to be a Type A free agent so I doubt Beane will give him up for spare parts. Any offer we make would have to top the two draft picks the A's would get by just letting him walk.

If Kenny wants to upgrade 2nd base I'd rather have him try to get Brian Roberts. We need a lead-off hitter and he'd be perfect.

cards press box
03-03-2008, 01:23 AM
Ellis is a fine player but I'm having trouble imagining what prospects the Sox could trade for him. Maybe it would be a three-way trade with the Sox dealing prospects to the A's that were acquired from a third team for a major league player?

turners56
03-03-2008, 07:20 AM
Ellis has some injury problems...he's only played 2 full seasons (second one was last year) out of his 6 year career. He'd be a great addition that is if...he stays healthy and Beane doesn't steal more furture HOF's out of our farm system. He'd fit in perfectly as a second place hitter or as a 9th hitter.

gr8mexico
03-03-2008, 08:00 AM
Ellis has some injury problems...he's only played 2 full seasons (second one was last year) out of his 6 year career. He'd be a great addition that is if...he stays healthy and Beane doesn't steal more furture HOF's out of our farm system. He'd fit in perfectly as a second place hitter or as a 9th hitter.
He's only been hurt twice out of "5" years. The second injury was a broken thumb nothing major and that was in 2006. But the Sox should not consider him unless no one pans out at the end of spring training. The Sox need to start playing Ramirez at 2nd and see what he can do.

Rockabilly
03-03-2008, 08:12 AM
What I dont understand if KW is going after another 2B why not go after Roberts that way we would have our lead off hitter...

The Immigrant
03-03-2008, 08:22 AM
Ellis would be a solid pickup..

Mark Ellis is a mediocre hitter, is too expensive, and is a one-year rental. What exactly makes him a "solid pickup"?

Tragg
03-03-2008, 09:00 AM
Last year was a bad offensive year? :?:

I mean, it wasn't All Star worthy, but it definitely wasn't bad. I would have taken that from our 2B.

Does everyone hit .350 and get on base at a .450 clip in Tragg's world? .340 OBP would be nice...oh, that's right, we had that with Iguchi, but he had "no value."
10 homers and a .330 OBP is not good offense.

The Immigrant
03-03-2008, 09:22 AM
.340 OBP would be nice...oh, that's right, we had that with Iguchi, but he had "no value."

Iguchi also had a better batting average and did the little things that Ozzie seems to value.

If the A's would take Michael Dubee for Ellis straight up, then fine. Otherwise this would be a dumb move.

WhiteSox5187
03-03-2008, 09:32 AM
What I dont understand if KW is going after another 2B why not go after Roberts that way we would have our lead off hitter...
I agree, if we're going to get another 2B might as well make it one who can leadoff

munchman33
03-03-2008, 11:54 AM
Mark Ellis is a mediocre hitter, is too expensive, and is a one-year rental. What exactly makes him a "solid pickup"?

He's a decent hitter, makes about the same amount of money that Uribe does, and plays awesome defense.

You're spinning.

FedEx227
03-03-2008, 11:58 AM
Richar is a rookie so naturally Ellis is gonna look better. Why do so many people have problems with letting our kids play?

No idea. It seems if we ever have someone under 26 pegged for a position, management and fans can't wait to get rid of him.

Matlock
03-03-2008, 12:08 PM
I'd like to see Keith Folke traded to us in this deal. Maybe the A's would be interested in Dye still.

palehozenychicty
03-03-2008, 12:09 PM
No idea. It seems if we ever have someone under 26 pegged for a position, management and fans can't wait to get rid of him.


Which is bizarre because neither wants to pay for the premier players on the FA/trade market. I wish that we had some guys that stay through the organization and contribute something. If BA gets a chance again and does his thing, it'll be the ultimate satisfaction.

SoxNation05
03-03-2008, 12:09 PM
I agree, if we're going to get another 2B might as well make it one who can leadoff
We obviously have nothing even close to what the O's are expecting. The only player I can see them wanting from us is Broadway or Egbert.

Rockabilly
03-03-2008, 12:19 PM
We obviously have nothing even close to what the O's are expecting. The only player I can see them wanting from us is Broadway or Egbert.


Richar, Egbert and Anderson is a better package than what the Cubs are offering for Roberts...

oeo
03-03-2008, 01:43 PM
.340 OBP would be nice...oh, that's right, we had that with Iguchi, but he had "no value."
10 homers and a .330 OBP is not good offense.

Make that 19 homeruns, and a .336 OBP.

Somehow WSI thinks Crede should get his big payday with worse numbers, while a guy like Ellis is complete garbage...

And since you mentioned Iguchi, Ellis' 2007 was very similar to Iguchi's 2005, except Ellis would bring Gold Glove-type defense.

soltrain21
03-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Make that 19 homeruns, and a .336 OBP.

Somehow WSI thinks Crede should get his big payday with worse numbers, while a guy like Ellis is complete garbage...

And since you mentioned Iguchi, Ellis' 2007 was very similar to Iguchi's 2005, except Ellis would bring Gold Glove-type defense.


But Crede is clutch, baby! I've always liked Mark Ellis, but I really like Richar, too. Color this a predicament.

Taliesinrk
03-03-2008, 03:26 PM
But Crede is clutch, baby! I've always liked Mark Ellis, but I really like Richar, too. Color this a predicament.

Ah yes. The sarcastic Crede is Clutch comment - I don't think that'll get old soon.

Anyway, I was hoping that you (or someone else really) can tell me why it seems like a handful of people are high on richar but really down on owens. It seems to me that you'll get similar productivity out of both. The difference is that Owens lacks the power but gives you the SBs - and will fill the lead-off role. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is even more true if you look at Owens' stats post re-call.

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 03:45 PM
Ah yes. The sarcastic Crede is Clutch comment - I don't think that'll get old soon.

Anyway, I was hoping that you (or someone else really) can tell me why it seems like a handful of people are high on richar but really down on owens. It seems to me that you'll get similar productivity out of both. The difference is that Owens lacks the power but gives you the SBs - and will fill the lead-off role. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is even more true if you look at Owens' stats post re-call.
The difference is that Owens plays CF - Richar plays 2B. We gave up one of our best position prospects to acquire Richar. We gave up Alex Escobar for Owens - which was pretty much organizational trash for organizational trash. Unfortunately we view speed as though it's on par with power, ability to hit for average, patience and any other actual hitting skill, so Owens and his sub-par defense has advanced this far.

The alternative to Richar is also Uribe/Ramirez/Ozuna. Ramirez needs time - no need to hurry him or take too much value in glorified batting practice i.e. spring training. Uribe is...Uribe. Ozuna is a bench player, and that's it.

Owens' alternative would be Carlos Quentin. One of the best prospects in baseball a short time ago and a guy who is far and away better than Owens in every aspect of the game (save speed).

Taliesinrk
03-03-2008, 04:09 PM
The difference is that Owens plays CF - Richar plays 2B. We gave up one of our best position prospects to acquire Richar. We gave up Alex Escobar for Owens - which was pretty much organizational trash for organizational trash. Unfortunately we view speed as though it's on par with power, ability to hit for average, patience and any other actual hitting skill, so Owens and his sub-par defense has advanced this far.

The alternative to Richar is also Uribe/Ramirez/Ozuna. Ramirez needs time - no need to hurry him or take too much value in glorified batting practice i.e. spring training. Uribe is...Uribe. Ozuna is a bench player, and that's it.

Owens' alternative would be Carlos Quentin. One of the best prospects in baseball a short time ago and a guy who is far and away better than Owens in every aspect of the game (save speed).

No further comment, although I have quite a few for the first paragraph. I give up.. Like I said, we're not going to agree.. we're just repeating ourselves now.

veeter
03-03-2008, 04:11 PM
The difference is that Owens plays CF - Richar plays 2B. We gave up one of our best position prospects to acquire Richar. We gave up Alex Escobar for Owens - which was pretty much organizational trash for organizational trash. Unfortunately we view speed as though it's on par with power, ability to hit for average, patience and any other actual hitting skill, so Owens and his sub-par defense has advanced this far.

The alternative to Richar is also Uribe/Ramirez/Ozuna. Ramirez needs time - no need to hurry him or take too much value in glorified batting practice i.e. spring training. Uribe is...Uribe. Ozuna is a bench player, and that's it.

Owens' alternative would be Carlos Quentin. One of the best prospects in baseball a short time ago and a guy who is far and away better than Owens in every aspect of the game (save speed).So, you would agree if Richar fails, it'll be a huge blunder because we gave up so much for him. Whereas if Owens fails, it's no big deal because we only gave up garbage for him.

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 04:53 PM
So, you would agree if Richar fails, it'll be a huge blunder because we gave up so much for him. Whereas if Owens fails, it's no big deal because we only gave up garbage for him.
I'm struggling to see what your point is. It would be a rather large blunder if Richar were to fail - there's no doubt about that. He deserves a chance to prove himself this season, that's my assertion. He's done it in the minors, now it's time to do it in the majors.

Owens has never done it in the minors, save his obscenely aberrational year in Birmingham. 27 year olds without any discernible hitting skill don't randomly find "it" in the majors.

My original point was that there are actually guys that should be (way, way, way) ahead of Owens on the depth chart; whereas Richar is absolutely the best choice based on the way he progressed last season. Combine that progression with a lack of suitable competition, the job is his.

Fighting for starting positional spots in ST is useless. It's glorified batting practice. Once again...

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Fields
AJP
Quentin
Richar

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 04:55 PM
Also, Richar can hit it out of the infield.

chisox77
03-03-2008, 05:00 PM
This makes sense if KW is planning a major package deal to get a pitcher, or a lead-off man.



:cool:

oeo
03-03-2008, 05:04 PM
Owens has never done it in the minors, save his obscenely aberrational year in Birmingham. 27 year olds without any discernible hitting skill don't randomly find "it" in the majors.

If you want to take a year out, it should be 2006. He improved upon those numbers last year, in his second year in AAA. It's not uncommon to have a rough go your first time around. He's not even your typical 27-year-old, as IIRC, he didn't spend a lot of time on the diamond in college.

So please tell me where he hasn't done 'it' in the minors? He's done 'it' at every level.

And yet, aren't you the same guy that thinks Geovany Soto is going to be some kind of star? His career started two years earlier, and didn't show jack until last year. BTW, off topic, but that guy looks very fishy. All of a sudden he busts out the power stick?

sox1970
03-03-2008, 05:07 PM
Also, Richar can hit it out of the infield.

Richar looks like he hit the gym this offseason. Looks like mini-Ruben Sierra.

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 05:07 PM
If you want to take a year out, it should be 2006. He improved upon those numbers last year, in his second year in AAA. It's not uncommon to have a rough go your first time around.

So please tell me where he hasn't done 'it' in the minors? He's done 'it' at every level.

And yet, aren't you the same guy that thinks Geovany Soto is going to be some kind of star? His career started two years earlier, and didn't show jack until last year.
I've never stated that but I expect Soto to be a star. Most scouts will agree - the guy is ready to be a top ten catcher.

If doing "it" is OPSing abysmally while being old at every level, well congratulations.

oeo
03-03-2008, 05:13 PM
I've never stated that but I expect Soto to be a star. Most scouts will agree - the guy is ready to be a top ten catcher.

I guess you haven't looked at his OPS over his career yet. You won't be impressed...

If doing "it" is OPSing abysmally while being old at every level, well congratulations.

You should seriously just change your name to OPS...

A stathead that likes only one stat.

Tragg
03-03-2008, 06:29 PM
. It would be a rather large blunder if Richar were to fail - there's no doubt about that. He deserves a chance to prove himself this season, that's my assertion. He's done it in the minors, now it's time to do it in the majors.
Indeed it would be a large blunder -Sox gave up a lot for Richar (the best hitting prospect in the organization). Quentin has talent galore.

I can already sense the tilt to the proven hacker over the younger more talented player.

We traded our 2 best hitting prospects for 2 near ML ready AAA players; now we're back to Uribe (he was dogged like crazy last yeaqr; now we want more of him?) and Owens? I hope not.

veeter
03-03-2008, 06:32 PM
I've never stated that but I expect Soto to be a star. Most scouts will agree - the guy is ready to be a top ten catcher.

If doing "it" is OPSing abysmally while being old at every level, well congratulations.Grebeck you need to calm down. Every one of your posts is mean spirited and condescending. Disagreements are fun and can lead to compromises. You come across as the all-knowing authority. I think a lot of guys here are very knowledgeable and make great points. Points you dismiss them out of hand. What makes you so qualified?

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 07:14 PM
Grebeck you need to calm down. Every one of your posts is mean spirited and condescending. Disagreements are fun and can lead to compromises. You come across as the all-knowing authority. I think a lot of guys here are very knowledgeable and make great points. Points you dismiss them out of hand. What makes you so qualified?
Nothing makes me qualified.

Why am I jaded/pissed? This organization is making mistakes left and right. They traded their two best positional prospects for two young, near ready or in Quentin's case ready positional players and now are leaning towards two awful alternatives (Owens, Uribe).

OEO - if not OPS, then what should I use to evaluate Owens? I understand that OPS is not a great stat to evaluate minor leaguers, and in some cases can be misleading (Ryan Sweeney on the low end, Ross Gload on the high end). But what has Owens done moderately well in the minor leagues? He has sucked at every stop.

I don't mean to be condescending, but Quentin is getting shoved aside and Ozzie has already made statements just short of naming Owens the starter without consideration of Quentin.

I see statements about how Owens is capable of this, capable of that - what leads you to this opinion?

If Quentin's capability this season is a .350-.360 OBP (and that's assuming he hits only .270) along with a good SLG% and fantastic defense (as scouts will attest to) - what makes Owens so appealing? I abhor his defense and he slaps it weaker than Grinderstad.

veeter
03-03-2008, 08:11 PM
I think Quentin is very much in the Sox plans. Watching him today, he's obviously special. A few swimgs of the bat and he opens your eyes. Ozzie juggles the **** out of the lineup, so there's playing time for all. Let's see how the spring pans out.

A. Cavatica
03-03-2008, 08:49 PM
But what has Owens done moderately well in the minor leagues? He has sucked at every stop.

Yes, once you overlook the batting title at Birmingham (173 hits, 99 runs scored, .331 average, .393 OBP); the .365 OBP at Savannah in 2004; and the .361 OBP at Charlotte last year (in half a season), then he's truly sucked at every stop.

SoxNation05
03-03-2008, 08:51 PM
Richar looks like he hit the gym this offseason. Looks like mini-Ruben Sierra.
I noticed that as well. If he keeps up a good work ethic and keeps hitting the ball hard he would be a great poor man's Robinson Cano.

Grebeck you need to calm down. Every one of your posts is mean spirited and condescending. Disagreements are fun and can lead to compromises. You come across as the all-knowing authority. I think a lot of guys here are very knowledgeable and make great points. Points you dismiss them out of hand. What makes you so qualified?
Thanks, veet. I appreciate you calling him out. He ruins the mood of this place.

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 08:56 PM
Thanks, veet. I appreciate you calling him out. He ruins the mood of this place.
Really? Because I called out a few posts by merrymen?

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 08:58 PM
Yes, once you overlook the batting title at Birmingham (173 hits, 99 runs scored, .331 average, .393 OBP); the .365 OBP at Savannah in 2004; and the .361 OBP at Charlotte last year (in half a season), then he's truly sucked at every stop.
Quentin's OBP never even came close to that low.

Those are good OBP - but his SLG/SB:CS and everything else was really, really bad. Not to mention he was too old for his level. OBP is important, but it is difficult to translate a decent isoD (isolate discipline; OBP-BA) when your SLG% is so low. Simply put, Owens' walk rates are doomed to fall sometime because pitchers will not fear him.

A. Cavatica
03-03-2008, 09:08 PM
Quentin's OBP never even came close to that low.

Those are good OBP - but his SLG/SB:CS and everything else was really, really bad. Not to mention he was too old for his level. OBP is important, but it is difficult to translate a decent isoD (isolate discipline; OBP-BA) when your SLG% is so low. Simply put, Owens' walk rates are doomed to fall sometime because pitchers will not fear him.

I said nothing about Quentin (and I happen to agree he's a better player).

I'm merely pointing out that nobody will listen to you when you argue that the 2005 Southern League batting champ "sucked at every stop".

TomBradley72
03-04-2008, 07:50 AM
I can see why they would be looking at Ellis:

Richar: .230 Avg./.289 OBP (including .196 for the month of August) over 56 games last year. Hitting .260 against Sept. call ups is the only reason to think he may have come on a little at the end of the year.
Uribe: I'm sure they are hoping to trade him
Ramirez: Unproven, looks like he hasn't played that much 2B
Ozuna: Better suited for "super sub" roleIf their plan is to "go for it" this year and Ellis can be had for some "spare parts"...I think it could be a good move.