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SoxNation05
02-28-2008, 08:01 PM
Where does this guy fit into your plans? I really hope he can put it together the way he did in Cuba.

Via ESPN

News: Ramirez collected four hits and scored three runs in his first exhibition game on Thursday.

Spin: Chicago's main concern with Ramirez is how quickly he can adjust to major league pitching so Thursday's effort is a step in the right direction.

MCHSoxFan
02-28-2008, 08:07 PM
Where does this guy fit into your plans? I really hope he can put it together the way he did in Cuba.

Via ESPN

News: Ramirez collected four hits and scored three runs in his first exhibition game on Thursday.

Spin: Chicago's main concern with Ramirez is how quickly he can adjust to major league pitching so Thursday's effort is a step in the right direction.

I hope he does GREAT! I want him at 2B...If he can handle it. I reall am excited to see him! :cool:

getonbckthr
02-28-2008, 08:13 PM
Crede, Richar, Floyd for Cain or Lincecum?

TomBradley72
02-28-2008, 08:14 PM
He could be a nice RH platoon player...with Richar at 2B and/or Owens in CF....eventually playing full time once he's acclimated. As a "super sub"....he's gives Ozzie the kind of flexibility he likes and depth if you can trade Uribe.

California Sox
02-28-2008, 08:19 PM
Great beginning for Alexei: 4-5 2 doubles 3 runs an rbi and a K. I think he strikes out too much.

I don't want him breaking with the big club as a utility guy, though. Give him 350ABs at Charlotte as a SS, then bring him up so he can be ready to replace OC in '09.

Nice start for Anderson as well.

SoxNation05
02-28-2008, 08:27 PM
Full game recap:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080228&content_id=2394555&vkey=spt2008gamer&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws#boxscore

gr8mexico
02-28-2008, 08:50 PM
No way can this guy be on the bench to start the season. He's going to have to see as many pitchers as possible. If he doesnt make it at either 2B or CF he should be in AAA. Everybody seems to say he looks great with the glove.

SOXfnNlansing
02-28-2008, 09:04 PM
so far so good. I like the competition that Ozzie has created. I think uribe will have a good year because Ozzie shook things up. I'm glad in a way that Pods and Erstad are gone and the hungrier young guys are here.

I think we're going to have a great spring. Hope it will carry over into the season.

PeoriaSoxFan
02-28-2008, 09:05 PM
I am calling it right now, Alexei is going to be rookie of the year. The combo of he and Pablo in the lineup at the same time will be deadly. I would put this post in teal, but I think I am serious about this.

jabrch
02-28-2008, 09:11 PM
I'm not going to get overly excited about him til we see him a bit against real pitching in the bigs, but he's certainly giving reason to be optimistic.

RowanDye
02-28-2008, 09:12 PM
Where does this guy fit into your plans? I really hope he can put it together the way he did in Cuba.

Via ESPN

News: Ramirez collected four hits and scored three runs in his first exhibition game on Thursday.

Spin: Chicago's main concern with Ramirez is how quickly he can adjust to major league pitching so Thursday's effort is a step in the right direction.

I hope he hits 4/5 every night, finishes the season with an .800 BA and >300 doubles.

chisox77
02-28-2008, 09:29 PM
Alexie Ramirez will figure significantly for the White Sox in 2008. And it will be a very good thing.


:cool:

dickallen15
02-28-2008, 09:31 PM
Its nice he wasn't 0-5, but this is just one meaningless exibition game.

oeo
02-28-2008, 09:32 PM
I am calling it right now, Alexei is going to be rookie of the year. The combo of he and Pablo in the lineup at the same time will be deadly. I would put this post in teal, but I think I am serious about this.

I remember when Brian Anderson was going to be ROY too.

I'm excited about him, but it was only one game (a Spring Training game, nonetheless).

What I really want to see is some video...hopefully there's highlights of the game somewhere.

Viva Medias B's
02-28-2008, 09:34 PM
One spring training game does not an HOFer make. Let's see how Alexei does the rest of the way first.

dickallen15
02-28-2008, 09:36 PM
Anyone know when or if Quentin is going to make his spring debut? Obviously must not be 100% yet.

SoxNation05
02-28-2008, 09:36 PM
One spring training game does not an HOFer make. Let's see how Alexei does the rest of the way first.
I am calling him and DLS get elected into the HOF in 2034.

ShoelessJoeS
02-28-2008, 10:12 PM
Great beginning for Alexei: 4-5 2 doubles 3 runs an rbi and a K. I think he strikes out too much.

I don't want him breaking with the big club as a utility guy, though. Give him 350ABs at Charlotte as a SS, then bring him up so he can be ready to replace OC in '09.

Nice start for Anderson as well.I really, really hope that Kenny just doesn't let Cabrera walk at the end of the year. Hopefully he can sign him to a 2-3 year deal before the season ends (or begins).

If KW can't get a deal done, then IMO....1 year of JG > 1 year of OC.

oeo
02-28-2008, 10:14 PM
I really, really hope that Kenny just doesn't let Cabrera walk at the end of the year. Hopefully he can sign him to a 2-3 year deal before the season ends (or begins).

If he doesn't KW can't get a deal done, then IMO....1 year of JG > 1 year of OC.

We'll see if that ends up being true. Who knows...we might not even miss Garland. Cabrera will also be a Type A Free Agent, while Garland will be a Type B.

ShoelessJoeS
02-28-2008, 10:22 PM
We'll see if that ends up being true. Who knows...we might not even miss Garland. Cabrera will also be a Type A Free Agent, while Garland will be a Type B.True. I guess we won't know until the games are played.

Hopefully Danks and Floyd can step it up this year (along with Jose), so we won't have to regret trading Jon for 1 year of Cabrera (if indeed he doesn't re-sign).

thomas35forever
02-28-2008, 10:40 PM
He had a couple of doubles today IIRC. A few more of those games and he's in business.:smile:

cws05champ
02-28-2008, 10:58 PM
He won't be the reason to make or break the season(pitching will be), but he definitely is an X-factor. Do you think he can pitch every 5 days too?

Metalthrasher442
02-28-2008, 11:01 PM
I hope he can keep it up..I wouldn't mind him being a part of this team!

TomBradley72
02-28-2008, 11:22 PM
He's Player of the Month for February!

Hitmen77
02-29-2008, 12:15 AM
I'm not going to get overly excited about him til we see him a bit against real pitching in the bigs, but he's certainly giving reason to be optimistic.

Exactly. It's not even March yet - but I am very interested in seeing how well he does.

I have heard that 2B and SS are his main positions, does anyone know if he is regarded as good defensively in CF?

With him, Richar, Owens, Quentin, and Swisher (and heck, even BA), I like the fact that the Sox have a decent number of guys with potential upside competing in spring training.

Jerksticks
02-29-2008, 01:00 AM
With him, Richar, Owens, Quentin, and Swisher (and heck, even BA), I like the fact that the Sox have a decent number of guys with potential upside competing in spring training.

Heck yea BA is in the competition. He needed a hot 2 games outa the gate more than anybody. I hope he leaves Owens and Quentin in his dust. I want his glove out there for Floyd and Danks.

JSticks

thedudeabides
02-29-2008, 01:30 AM
I'm happy he did well in his first game. But let's remember nobody has a book on this guy yet. Teams will adjust, we just have to see if Alexei can.

soxfan21
02-29-2008, 10:15 AM
He did a lot better than I thought he was going to do in his first spring training game. I know that this is only a spring training game, but I was still somewhat impressed at what this kid could do. Hopefully he keeps it up, and as mentioned before, could be a great super sub for the sox this year.

skottyj242
02-29-2008, 10:17 AM
Crede, Richar, Floyd for Cain and Lincecum?

:stooges:

Taliesinrk
02-29-2008, 10:51 AM
Heck yea BA is in the competition. He needed a hot 2 games outa the gate more than anybody. I hope he leaves Owens and Quentin in his dust. I want his glove out there for Floyd and Danks.

JSticks

I'm not sure he's been as "hot" as everyone's saying. While he's gotten some hits, he has left A LOT of guys on base.. I'm sure after last year, Ozzie and the coaches are looking for hits in the proper situations. Anyway, it's pretty moot considering we're two days into spring training games - I just wanted to point that out as I've seen/heard multiple people speaking of how well BA is doing so far.

Also, does anyone else think it's interesting he's playing in LF??

Zisk77
02-29-2008, 11:07 AM
I remember when Brian Anderson was going to be ROY too.

I'm excited about him, but it was only one game (a Spring Training game, nonetheless).

What I really want to see is some video...hopefully there's highlights of the game somewhere.


Why be Roy? if you are goingt to be someone besides yourself why not choose a cool name like Tank or Brawley?

southsideirish71
02-29-2008, 11:41 AM
The swing from Alexei has some potential. Nice back elbow( nice inverted L ) mechanics for line drive power. His swing is very raw, but he can make a lot of contact and mistakes with the technique he already has. If he shortens that swing up a bit he can be a good one.

btrain929
02-29-2008, 11:44 AM
A Sun Times article just came out talking about Alexei, and Ozzie said he appeared "rough" at 2B. How can someone get so much praise for his slick D at SS, then appear rough at 2B?

JorgeFabregas
02-29-2008, 11:52 AM
I'm not sure he's been as "hot" as everyone's saying. While he's gotten some hits, he has left A LOT of guys on base..
He has left a lot of runners on base, but, IIRC, he also has two hits with runners on base. A double on Wednesday and a single on Thursday.

voodoochile
02-29-2008, 12:05 PM
A Sun Times article just came out talking about Alexei, and Ozzie said he appeared "rough" at 2B. How can someone get so much praise for his slick D at SS, then appear rough at 2B?

The mechanics are different. Easier to move from SS to 3B and vice versa than to move to the other side of the infield. The throwing motion, positioning and DP requirements are all different at 2B because of the position of 1B in relation to the defender.

Tekijawa
02-29-2008, 12:27 PM
I've already stated printing Alexei's hall of fame plaque post cards...

JohnTucker0814
02-29-2008, 12:46 PM
The mechanics are different. Easier to move from SS to 3B and vice versa than to move to the other side of the infield. The throwing motion, positioning and DP requirements are all different at 2B because of the position of 1B in relation to the defender.

Thats true, I played 2b & SS in college and they are two different worlds. Even fielding is quite a bit differently, then you have to think about how you communicate with the OF, double plays, bunt coverage, cut-offs... it's a different world on each side of the bag. But, if someone is a good ss, they should be able to adapt pretty well with good baseball knowledge.

Taliesinrk
02-29-2008, 12:56 PM
The mechanics are different. Easier to move from SS to 3B and vice versa than to move to the other side of the infield. The throwing motion, positioning and DP requirements are all different at 2B because of the position of 1B in relation to the defender.

I disagree. This statement is not completely true. There are plenty of third basement that would have a much easier time moving to the right side of the INF, but would look like andy gonzalez if they tried SS.

But for your overall point about moving a SS to 2B vs. 3B, I don't think it's so clear cut. I mean, I really think it depends on the player, and their skill-set. If anything I might give the upperhand to SS to 2B. I mean besides A-Rod, look at how many teams have guys that play MINF, rather than SS and 3B. Most guys will play the corner INF OR the MINF. Of course, you'll always run into guys like Pablo, but personally for me, it was a lot easier switching between 2B and SS than SS and 3B.

EDIT: And so I can "position-drop" and hang with John Tucker; I played 2B, SS, and 3B in college.. I'm half-joking of course

Nellie_Fox
03-01-2008, 12:12 AM
Why be Roy? if you are goingt to be someone besides yourself why not choose a cool name like Tank or Brawley?
http://members.shaw.ca/callag/royclassic.jpgWhat's wrong with the name Roy, pardner?

Soxfanspcu11
03-01-2008, 12:14 AM
A friend of mine was at this game, the game in which he went 4 for 5 and called me, VERY Excited saying that Alexei looked AWESOME!!!!! He said that he already looked like a player that was ready for the Big Leagues!!! If that game was not a fluke and he really has this talent, what a HUUUUUUGE piece of the puzzle he could be!!

There is a nice article about him over on the Sox Official Website. Here is the link;

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080228&content_id=2395724&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I like how the article talks about the potential for Alexei to be a GREAT "Sleeper" pick up for the Sox.

I actually have a REALLY good feeling about him!! I really believe that he will be the starting Second Baseman come Opening Day, and I think he is going to be an AMAZING player and come up BIG TIME for the Sox in 2008!!!:bandance::):gulp:

Tragg
03-01-2008, 08:40 AM
I really, really hope that Kenny just doesn't let Cabrera walk at the end of the year. Hopefully he can sign him to a 2-3 year deal before the season ends (or begins).

If KW can't get a deal done, then IMO....1 year of JG > 1 year of OC.
Take the draft choices - that was the reason the deal made sense in the first place.

Milkman43
03-01-2008, 03:10 PM
Ramirez will be the Sox starting second baseman.

Craig Grebeck
03-01-2008, 03:30 PM
Ramirez will be the Sox starting second baseman.
That would be a big, big mistake. Let him play in AAA and give Richar an opportunity. Ramirez can play SS next season after Cabrera walks.

jabrch
03-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Ramirez will be the Sox starting second baseman.

I'd love to see him earn that job over the course of the next month. That would be an awesome sign.

But he won't get it unless he earns it. Right now it is Richar's job to lose. Uribe and Alexei will both have a shot - but they have to outplay Richar.

If they do - then good for us...

voodoochile
03-01-2008, 03:47 PM
I'd love to see him earn that job over the course of the next month. That would be an awesome sign.

But he won't get it unless he earns it. Right now it is Richar's job to lose. Uribe and Alexei will both have a shot - but they have to outplay Richar.

If they do - then good for us...

Works for me.

For next year, I'd prefer to see Cabrera get re-signed, Richar stay at second, Rameriz in CF with Swisher and Quentin in the corners and Dye moving to DH. That is provided Thome doesn't earn his option and Owens doesn't suddenly turn into Pods. If those happen, then I guess the Sox will actually have too much talent and that will truly suck...:tongue:

jabrch
03-01-2008, 03:52 PM
Works for me.

For next year, I'd prefer to see Cabrera get re-signed, Richar stay at second, Rameriz in CF with Swisher and Quentin in the corners and Dye moving to DH.



I'm fine with that VC...but until we see Alexei play a bit more than we have so far, I can't help but wonder how good he is if we got him as a FA for that cheap. I know - it happens - but until I see proof, I'll be questioning it...

Craig Grebeck
03-01-2008, 03:55 PM
I'm fine with that VC...but until we see Alexei play a bit more than we have so far, I can't help but wonder how good he is if we got him as a FA for that cheap. I know - it happens - but until I see proof, I'll be questioning it...
I would just rather we take it slow with him. Richar deserves a shot for the way he finished last season and we can afford to take it slow with Alexei.

That being said, I am still a huge proponent of taking the draft picks for OC and allowing him to walk.

gr8mexico
03-01-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm fine with that VC...but until we see Alexei play a bit more than we have so far, I can't help but wonder how good he is if we got him as a FA for that cheap. I know - it happens - but until I see proof, I'll be questioning it...
I think that Cuban FA players are not getting the big bucks because of the guys before them. Rafael Betancourt didn't sign for to much either and hes turned out to be a good player on the other hand Kendry Morales was payed good money and still hasn't panned out.

Lorenzo Barcelo
03-01-2008, 06:06 PM
Sorry if this has been posted but someone on youtube posted Alexei's at bats from the game. It also looks like he has other players also and a website.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5BHqYgk-GIM

California Sox
03-01-2008, 06:20 PM
Thanks for the link. Boy, he really does look athletic. He reminds me a little of Tony Fernandez in build and how loose he holds the bat. It's interesting that he's looking to turn on everything but he got fooled and still was able to cover the outside portion of the plate on that infield hit. You've got to like the way he runs. The hard slide on the DP was a good sign. Looks like he knows how to play the game.

Of course, he only went 1-5 today, so he blows.

oeo
03-01-2008, 06:23 PM
I'm fine with that VC...but until we see Alexei play a bit more than we have so far, I can't help but wonder how good he is if we got him as a FA for that cheap. I know - it happens - but until I see proof, I'll be questioning it...

Maybe teams just aren't ready to throw money at a guy that they know pretty much nothing about. We didn't even know his actual size until he got here, let alone the type of player he is. All we have is statistics for that.

It's not like Japanese players, where there is actually more information. Although, I still disagree with some of the deals Japanese players have gotten.

Sorry if this has been posted but someone on youtube posted Alexei's at bats from the game. It also looks like he has other players also and a website.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5BHqYgk-GIM

Looks like he can fly when he turns it on.

I hope we see Alexei at SS and Richar at 2B on Monday, when the game will be on TV.

Taliesinrk
03-01-2008, 06:24 PM
Sorry if this has been posted but someone on youtube posted Alexei's at bats from the game. It also looks like he has other players also and a website.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5BHqYgk-GIM

thanks.. looks like he likes to pull

oeo
03-01-2008, 11:17 PM
Just saw the highlights from the game today on SportsNite. They only showed him turning a double play, but he looked good doing it, and the arm looks strong.

Tragg
03-01-2008, 11:51 PM
The swing from Alexei has some potential. Nice back elbow( nice inverted L ) mechanics for line drive power. His swing is very raw, but he can make a lot of contact and mistakes with the technique he already has. If he shortens that swing up a bit he can be a good one.
Does he take pitches, or does he hack at everything? Does he have any power?

I agree with the post above - play Richar and let Alexi play utility player. Ideally, give him experience at SHORT, so we can take the draft picks instead of resign a 34 year old SS.

Richar has plate discipline and some power. He didn't pull it all together last year, but he looked promising to me.

TheVulture
03-02-2008, 11:52 AM
The best players will win the jobs: i.e. Ramirez will be starting a lot of games for the Sox this year. Richar deserves his opportunities, but you don't sign the best player in Cuba and stick him in AAA. I wonder if he'll get a look for the CF job?

Scottiehaswheels
03-02-2008, 12:00 PM
Ideally, give him experience at SHORT, so we can take the draft picks instead of resign a 34 year old SS.
Not to say he will/won't but who's to say Cabrera can't be as productive as Omar Vizquel has been til his late 30's? I'd gladly take the kind of production that Vizquel gives from our SS through his age 39 season. I certainly wouldn't sign him to a crazy 6 year deal but I'd gladly get him signed for 3-4 years.

TheVulture
03-02-2008, 12:16 PM
Not to say he will/won't but who's to say Cabrera can't be as productive as Omar Vizquel has been til his late 30's? I'd gladly take the kind of production that Vizquel gives from our SS through his age 39 season. I certainly wouldn't sign him to a crazy 6 year deal but I'd gladly get him signed for 3-4 years.

Wouldn't you rather put that cash toward, say, CC Sabathia or another SP? If Richar and Ramirez could hold down the middle, that would be huge for the Sox' flexibility the next few years. And we're going to need some SP help to remain competitive.

Scottiehaswheels
03-02-2008, 12:27 PM
Wouldn't you rather put that cash toward, say, CC Sabathia or another SP? If Richar and Ramirez could hold down the middle, that would be huge for the Sox' flexibility the next few years. And we're going to need some SP help to remain competitive.We should have $15 mil already, that we were willing to throw at Hunter, available. If Crede should depart there is another 5-6 mil plus whatever prospects he brings. I'm hopeful that both Floyd/Danks can at least maintain 3rd starter quality. With Javy/Mark locked up for a few more years yet we have the room to sign both Cabrera/another starting pitcher if needed I figure. Also Egbert/Broadway may eventually take the 5th starter role in '09/'10. Lets just say I'm not quite as worried about our starting pitching going forward as a lot of people. Also it's likely if Captain Cheeseburger commands that much money he isn't staying in the Central either, further degrading the competition in our division.

jabrch
03-02-2008, 12:31 PM
but you don't sign the best player in Cuba and stick him in AAA.

I'm not so sure that's a true statement. The best player in Cuba (if Ramirez actually is that) still needs to prove that he is ready to face MLB pitching every day before he is promoted to the majors.

Tragg
03-02-2008, 02:37 PM
Not to say he will/won't but who's to say Cabrera can't be as productive as Omar Vizquel has been til his late 30's? I'd gladly take the kind of production that Vizquel gives from our SS through his age 39 season. I certainly wouldn't sign him to a crazy 6 year deal but I'd gladly get him signed for 3-4 years. In return for 2 first round draft choices? Maybe so, but the draft choices are signficant (and are what made the trade make sense in the first place).

Re a different comment, If Alexi is the best player in Cuba, he's still only a $1.5 Mill player....you can put that in the minors for development. Investment.

Scottiehaswheels
03-02-2008, 02:47 PM
In return for 2 first round draft choices? Maybe so, but the draft choices are signficant (and are what made the trade make sense in the first place).

Re a different comment, If Alexi is the best player in Cuba, he's still only a $1.5 Mill player....you can put that in the minors for development. Investment.If he gets picked up by a team in the top 15 records from this coming year... Otherwise a sandwich pick and a second rounder if I'm not mistaken, and judging our "talent" at developing players and not going above slot, I'd rather just keep a proven guy with pretty damn good production with the bat and a slick glove.

TomBradley72
03-02-2008, 02:55 PM
For my money....OC is the best all around starting shortstop we've had since at least Ozzie (very early 90's, before the knee injury)...maybe even longer than that.

If he can deliver GG level defense, along with being a solid #2 hitter, and the type of leadership that comes with his reputation...I hope we lock him up for a few years and stop worrying about SS for a while.

btrain929
03-02-2008, 03:06 PM
For my money....OC is the best all around starting shortstop we've had since at least Ozzie (very early 90's, before the knee injury)...maybe even longer than that.

If he can deliver GG level defense, along with being a solid #2 hitter, and the type of leadership that comes with his reputation...I hope we lock him up for a few years and stop worrying about SS for a while.

Thank you. We dealt from a position of strength (SP, although we're not TOO deep in it, but we still did have 4 solid veterans at that position), and upgraded at a position that people around here have been wanting to upgrade for the past few years, also a position where we haven't had anyone above average in a long, long time. When you combine all the factors (GG defense, very solid top of the order offense, leadership), that's someone i'd prefer to keep around for more than 1 year.

Give him 3 years/21 million, with a 9.5 million option on a 4th year. Then, if Konerko isn't traded anytime soon, we'll have just about our whole infield under contract for at least the next 3 years. That extension will hopefully become more likely if Crede/Uribe are moved shortly as well and taking their money off the books.

Milkman43
03-02-2008, 03:44 PM
I thought it was Richar's job to lose as well until he showed up late to spring training. He is in Ozzie's dog house and sits behind Ramirez and Uribe for the starting nod.

oeo
03-02-2008, 03:46 PM
I thought it was Richar's job to lose as well until he showed up late to spring training. He is in Ozzie's dog house and sits behind Ramirez and Uribe for the starting nod.

Nobody's in anyone's doghouse. Ozzie has said numerous times that he won't hold it against Richar.

TheVulture
03-02-2008, 03:46 PM
Re a different comment, If Alexi is the best player in Cuba, he's still only a $1.5 Mill player....you can put that in the minors for development. Investment.

If that's true then you might as well send Fields, Owens, Quentin and Richar to AAA too, since they are only $350,000 players. I'd rather go with the best players rather deciding based on salary.

diehardRLsoxfan
03-02-2008, 04:33 PM
thanks.. looks like he likes to pull

Looked like there was one at bat where he went with the pitch pretty well that he took up the middle.

Tragg
03-02-2008, 05:38 PM
If that's true then you might as well send Fields, Owens, Quentin and Richar to AAA too, since they are only $350,000 players. I'd rather go with the best players rather deciding based on salary.
That was my point.
That if the "best player in Cuba" belongs in AAA, so be it.

TheVulture
03-02-2008, 07:12 PM
That was my point.
That if the "best player in Cuba" belongs in AAA, so be it.

Can't argue with that. I just think he'll prove to be the best option whether that be at a certain position or as a utility player. I'd rather see him get 200-300 PA with the Sox than 500 at AAA as far as his development is concerned. I guess I just don't agree with the idea that he needs to get everyday ABs at AAA as opposed to filling a utility role. If he's the best player for that role, then he should be on the club is my opinion. Time will tell, though.

oeo
03-03-2008, 08:10 PM
Just a few observations from the game today:
-His bat looks better than what was expected this shortly into the US. It is still Spring Training, though.
-He really runs well. Had the stand-up bases-clearing triple in the right-centerfield gap (which BTW, was mashed), and also scored from first on a Dye double down the LF line.
-For a rook, he really seems to have a swagger. I like it.
-His defense didn't impress me today. Maybe just a bad day, but a dropped pop up, a bobble on a double play ball, and then what looked to be mediocre range. It was only one play, but Butler hit one between third and short which looked like he should have made a play on. It wasn't really hit hard, but it got through.

Just my thoughts...what did you guys think of what you saw?

sox1970
03-03-2008, 09:14 PM
Just a few observations from the game today:
-His bat looks better than what was expected this shortly into the US. It is still Spring Training, though.
-He really runs well. Had the stand-up bases-clearing triple in the right-centerfield gap (which BTW, was mashed), and also scored from first on a Dye double down the LF line.
-For a rook, he really seems to have a swagger. I like it.
-His defense didn't impress me today. Maybe just a bad day, but a dropped pop up, a bobble on a double play ball, and then what looked to be mediocre range. It was only one play, but Butler hit one between third and short which looked like he should have made a play on. It wasn't really hit hard, but it got through.

Just my thoughts...what did you guys think of what you saw?

Doesn't look like he has a gun of an arm either, but it's just one game.

The triple was on a fastball left up, so I don't know if he can hit a curve.

He's a stick. Seriously one of skinniest players I've ever seen. I'd be concerned about his productivity late in the season.

My overall impression is that if he isn't starting for the Sox, he should start the season at Charlotte.

SoxNation05
03-03-2008, 09:41 PM
He sure bashed that triple into right field. Fielding was not impressive by all means.

thedudeabides
03-03-2008, 09:49 PM
Doesn't look like he has a gun of an arm either, but it's just one game.

The triple was on a fastball left up, so I don't know if he can hit a curve.

He's a stick. Seriously one of skinniest players I've ever seen. I'd be concerned about his productivity late in the season.

My overall impression is that if he isn't starting for the Sox, he should start the season at Charlotte.

If he proves he can play at this level, than I disagree. If he isn't ready to play a full season I think he could be a very valuable bench player. He's versatile and Ozzie loves to use his bench, so he would get playing time. It would ease him into the league and give him exposure at several positions.

But, I think we're all going to have to wait and see if he seems ready by the end of camp.

SoxNation05
03-03-2008, 09:54 PM
If he proves he can play at this level, than I disagree. If he isn't ready to play a full season I think he could be a very valuable bench player. He's versatile and Ozzie loves to use his bench, so he would get playing time. It would ease him into the league and give him exposure at several positions.

But, I think we're all going to have to wait and see if he seems ready by the end of camp.
I still think him getting as many ABs as possible is the best way to help him develop. If he is sitting on the bench and getting 5 ABs a week, I can't see him improving as much as he would starting everygame down in Charlotte.

oeo
03-03-2008, 10:11 PM
I still think him getting as many ABs as possible is the best way to help him develop. If he is sitting on the bench and getting 5 ABs a week, I can't see him improving as much as he would starting everygame down in Charlotte.

I don't even know if it's going to be the ABs he needs. Right now, and it's still early, he looks sharp.

It's the other side of his game (defense), which it looks like he may have to go to Charlotte to work on.

Jenks4Prez
03-04-2008, 04:19 PM
Ozzie better play this guy every day. Kenny found a diamond in the rough here boys! I for one am jacked about it.

rowand33
03-05-2008, 06:53 PM
Guy keeps on hitting.

2/4 today with an RBI.

Let's hope this keeps up.

dickallen15
03-05-2008, 09:32 PM
He's hitting real well, but the pitchers are just getting started and the ball doesn't break too much in Arizona. He's spent his entire life in Cuba. It will be interesting to see how he adapts to April in Chicago and Detroit and Cleveland if he makes the team. He might not have ever played a game when the temperature was below 55 degrees.

TomBradley72
03-05-2008, 09:44 PM
He's hitting real well, but the pitchers are just getting started and the ball doesn't break too much in Arizona.

Good point. You can't get too excited about hitting stats or too nervous about pitching stats in Arizona.

Still pumped about Alexei though...he'll probably still have his ups and downs as the league adjusts to him, etc...but he looks good.

Corlose 15
03-05-2008, 10:05 PM
I think ideally since the Sox are going to take 7 relievers north and therefore need versatility out of their bench players it would be best for them if Richar wins the starting job and Ramirez proves that he can hit and play defense and he and Ozuna can both be your super subs. Ramirez can be the SS, CF, 2B backup and Ozuna can backup 3B and 2B. Provided Ozuna can actually play third which he has before.


Then you could trade Uribe and Crede for prospects or whatever.

oeo
03-06-2008, 12:07 AM
Don't ignore that Richar also had a 2-for-3 day.

Uribe has really cooled down after a fast start (big surprise), so it's starting to shape up as a two man race.

I think ideally since the Sox are going to take 7 relievers north and therefore need versatility out of their bench players it would be best for them if Richar wins the starting job and Ramirez proves that he can hit and play defense and he and Ozuna can both be your super subs.

Also, Richar bats left-handed and appears to have much more plate discipline. I don't think Alexei has ever struck out a lot, but I think we're going to see a lot of quick ABs with the guy.

FedEx227
03-06-2008, 12:13 AM
Also, Richar bats left-handed and appears to have much more plate discipline. I don't think Alexei has ever struck out a lot, but I think we're going to see a lot of quick ABs with the guy.

Which is something I think most of us have seen enough of with Uribe. I think Ramirez can be a hell of a player, give him a year in AAA, see what he does, or even take him on as a reserve. Richar SHOULD be our 2B, he has come around nicely and will do some good things for us at the plate.

russ99
03-06-2008, 01:01 PM
Which is something I think most of us have seen enough of with Uribe. I think Ramirez can be a hell of a player, give him a year in AAA, see what he does, or even take him on as a reserve. Richar SHOULD be our 2B, he has come around nicely and will do some good things for us at the plate.

Ramirez is starting at 2B today, at the position the first time this spring, so I'm anxious to see how he does. The game's on CSN, so I hope you guys set your DVRs...

Domeshot17
03-06-2008, 01:06 PM
I think it will come down to this

Richar has the chance to be an amazing defensive 2b. You can tell he learned a lot watching "O-Dawg" in AZ. Ramirez is struggling defensively at 2b thufar. From our 9 hitter, I would take the defense if the offensive production is close enough. Ramirez will still give us 250-350 at bats as a super utility guy, especially in Ozzie's system.

btrain929
03-06-2008, 01:07 PM
Ramirez is starting at 2B today, at the position the first time this spring, so I'm anxious to see how he does. The game's on CSN, so I hope you guys set your DVRs...

Actually, I think I read on the White Sox website that Ramirez is starting at 2B, but at one of the back-field B games, not the main one.

Edit: Yep, it's under the section "Around the Horn"

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080305&content_id=2407866&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

sox1970
03-06-2008, 01:09 PM
Thursday's "B" game against the Rockies will feature Pablo Ozuna leading off and playing short, Alexei Ramirez at second, Josh Fields at third and Jason Bourgeois in center.

PeoriaSoxFan
03-06-2008, 10:08 PM
I hope Ozzie starts giving him more time at 2nd, plus CF. He will need to show he can play those positions to come North.

SteveFakeBlood
03-08-2008, 06:13 PM
I agree with whomever said Ramirez should start at 2nd. I've heard negative reviews of his defense, but his hitting, speed and overall athleticism are pretty impressive. You have to take his excellent numbers in Cuba with a grain of salt, but people seem to be treating them like they're completely worthless... he did bat .375 starting for Cuba in the WBC.

Richar and Uribe would be better defensively, but the plate discipline for both of them is highly suspect. Uribe seems like he's on his way out of town anyway. Richar still has a shot at learning that discipline, but I think Ramirez has tremendous upside- whereas I see Richar as Alex Cintron with better defense and power- but a weaker all around hitter. People remember the home runs he hit- but he also was on pace to strike out 100 times in a full season which is pretty crappy for someone who needs to be a contact hitter.

At any rate, if he doesn't get the starting job, Ozzie needs to find him 200 at-bats this year- if he ends up as a #9 hitter it would be a great help to the top of our order (I just got shivers remembering the miseries set upon us by Andy Gonzalez in that spot). In any regard, this has the potential to be the best signing the Sox have made in a couple years.

~Steve

fozzy
03-09-2008, 05:54 AM
the sox need to think long term with Ramirez. if he dosen't win a starting spot out right there is no reason to break camp with the sox. screw the super-sub idea. send him to triple A and get him ready to either replace cabrea or play centerfield and lead-off.

Tragg
03-09-2008, 09:42 AM
Does he drive the ball or is he a slapper?
Does he take pitches?

PeoriaSoxFan
03-09-2008, 06:43 PM
the sox need to think long term with Ramirez. if he dosen't win a starting spot out right there is no reason to break camp with the sox. screw the super-sub idea. send him to triple A and get him ready to either replace cabrea or play centerfield and lead-off.


As much as I want to see him make the team, I tend to agree with your thinking.

packerfever62
03-16-2008, 11:57 AM
1. Trade Konerko
I know this may sound scarry, since he is the fan favorite, but I strongly believe that this would greatly improve the team.

2. In return you recieve a solid #2 or #3 starter.

3. Fields moves over to first

4. The Whitesox are able to sign Crede with the $ they saved from trading Konerko.

5. Alexei Ram. plays 2nd

*This shores up your rotation, settles your 3rd base problem, improves your team speed, and there would really only be a loss of about 5 home runs with out Konerko in the lineup, because Fields has the ability to hit around 30 homers.
-It just makes sense and could really put the Sox in a great position for a Wild Card spot.

gogosox16
03-16-2008, 12:18 PM
1. Trade Konerko
I know this may sound scarry, since he is the fan favorite, but I strongly believe that this would greatly improve the team.

2. In return you recieve a solid #2 or #3 starter.

3. Fields moves over to first

4. The Whitesox are able to sign Crede with the $ they saved from trading Konerko.

5. Alexei Ram. plays 2nd

*This shores up your rotation, settles your 3rd base problem, improves your team speed, and there would really only be a loss of about 5 home runs with out Konerko in the lineup, because Fields has the ability to hit around 30 homers.
-It just makes sense and could really put the Sox in a great position for a Wild Card spot.
By moving Fields to first do you understand that our defense would probably one of the worst in the league. Also the only way I trade Konerko is if we get a #2-4 starter and a pretty good 1st basemen. You have to get over the fact that the chances of Crede and Fields ever playing together are slim to none and most importantly the chances of Crede returning next year are remotely no chance

gr8mexico
03-16-2008, 12:27 PM
1. Trade Konerko
I know this may sound scarry, since he is the fan favorite, but I strongly believe that this would greatly improve the team.

2. In return you recieve a solid #2 or #3 starter.

3. Fields moves over to first

4. The Whitesox are able to sign Crede with the $ they saved from trading Konerko.

5. Alexei Ram. plays 2nd

*This shores up your rotation, settles your 3rd base problem, improves your team speed, and there would really only be a loss of about 5 home runs with out Konerko in the lineup, because Fields has the ability to hit around 30 homers.
-It just makes sense and could really put the Sox in a great position for a Wild Card spot.
I agree with you about trading Konerko but Nick Swisher would be alot better at 1st

oeo
03-16-2008, 12:28 PM
1. Trade Konerko
I know this may sound scarry, since he is the fan favorite, but I strongly believe that this would greatly improve the team.

Who gives a **** if he's a fan favorite? I worry about the clubhouse. If he was going to be traded, it should have been before Spring Training; not after things are rolling.

And just say no to re-signing Crede. That's poorly spent money because he's not worth it.

sullythered
03-16-2008, 01:47 PM
1. Trade Konerko
I know this may sound scarry, since he is the fan favorite, but I strongly believe that this would greatly improve the team.

2. In return you recieve a solid #2 or #3 starter.

3. Fields moves over to first

4. The Whitesox are able to sign Crede with the $ they saved from trading Konerko.

5. Alexei Ram. plays 2nd

*This shores up your rotation, settles your 3rd base problem, improves your team speed, and there would really only be a loss of about 5 home runs with out Konerko in the lineup, because Fields has the ability to hit around 30 homers.
-It just makes sense and could really put the Sox in a great position for a Wild Card spot.
Fields replacing Konerko in the lineup is a GIGANTIC downgrade.

Lip Man 1
03-16-2008, 04:10 PM
There is a blurb about him in the print edition of S.I. this week (Farve on the cover) talking about 'spring surprises.'

Lip

ksimpson14
03-19-2008, 02:59 AM
Alexei owns an iPhone (Rosenthal, 2008). After hearing this, I'm not sure I can trust his judgment in reading ground/fly balls :scratch:

Sockinchisox
03-19-2008, 02:47 PM
Really good article on Alexei.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7921324/

Is it possible they're thinking of platooning Alexei with Owens in the lead off spot?

sox1970
03-19-2008, 02:48 PM
Ramirez is in CF again today.

He's making the team.

Save McCuddy's
03-19-2008, 08:15 PM
Uribe designated for assignment. Ozzie doesn't favor Richar. Alexei leading the team in hitting -- I think the Cuban has made the team and looks like a starter at 2nd base.

oeo
03-19-2008, 09:32 PM
Ramirez is in CF again today.

And he didn't look completely comfortable. I still think he needs work...I don't know about starting him at 2B from day one.

Metalthrasher442
03-19-2008, 10:29 PM
A lot of options..he still doesn't look very ready defensively. So I'm interested to see how Ozzie plays it.

Tragg
03-19-2008, 10:32 PM
1. Trade Konerko
I know this may sound scarry, since he is the fan favorite, but I strongly believe that this would greatly improve the team.

2. In return you recieve a solid #2 or #3 starter.

3. Fields moves over to first

4. The Whitesox are able to sign Crede with the $ they saved from trading Konerko.

5. Alexei Ram. plays 2nd

*This shores up your rotation, settles your 3rd base problem, improves your team speed, and there would really only be a loss of about 5 home runs with out Konerko in the lineup, because Fields has the ability to hit around 30 homers.
-It just makes sense and could really put the Sox in a great position for a Wild Card spot.

You have to start that ball rolling in November, not mid March.

DrCrawdad
03-19-2008, 10:48 PM
So long as Alexei Ramirez does not become...

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6359.jpg
Julio Ramirez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirju02.shtml)


...whom the Sox broke camp with as either their starting CF or 4th outfielder in '01.

PeoriaSoxFan
03-19-2008, 10:54 PM
So who wants in the fan club?

Save McCuddy's
03-19-2008, 10:57 PM
By moving Fields to first do you understand that our defense would probably one of the worst in the league. Also the only way I trade Konerko is if we get a #2-4 starter and a pretty good 1st basemen. You have to get over the fact that the chances of Crede and Fields ever playing together are slim to none and most importantly the chances of Crede returning next year are remotely no chance


There is no way that exchanging Fields for Konerko while leaving Crede at third could make our defense league worst. Get a grip, untried as of yet at third, Fields or any other stone handed third baseman in the game can be similarly below average at first base. reference Harmon Killebrew. A dip in defense at first base from mildly above average to below average is not going to impact the overall quality of the defense substantially.

Domeshot17
03-19-2008, 11:17 PM
There is no way that exchanging Fields for Konerko while leaving Crede at third could make our defense league worst. Get a grip, untried as of yet at third, Fields or any other stone handed third baseman in the game can be similarly below average at first base. reference Harmon Killebrew. A dip in defense at first base from mildly above average to below average is not going to impact the overall quality of the defense substantially.


Do you watch the games? Konerko might be the most underappreciated defensive 1B in the game today. You know how many managers would kill to have a guy who can pick it like he does. If he played in Boston or NY he may have a Gold Glove.

And whoever thinks we resign Crede for Konerko money is nuts. The guy has never played 1 full season of good baseball. Infact, in his entire career, the guy has maybe a season total of quality ball and 1 great playoff stretch. In 2005, the playoffs made everyone forget how incredibly much Crede underpeformed during the year. I like him as much as the next guy, but thank god the people who want to give 12-13 mil a year to a guy with a 700 ops will never be in the front office.

The idea of Fields-Cabrera-Ramirez-Konerko for the next few years really excites me, thats an IF with an all star at every position potentially

voodoochile
03-19-2008, 11:20 PM
Alexei been playing a LOT of CF recently. Maybe they are going to start both Alexei and Richar or maybe a trade really is in the works.

PalehosePlanet
03-19-2008, 11:21 PM
A lot of options..he still doesn't look very ready defensively. So I'm interested to see how Ozzie plays it.

It should not take a natural SS very long to get acclimated to 2B. He'll need to work on his foot work in turning the DP, but I think he'll get there fairly quickly.

PalehosePlanet
03-19-2008, 11:25 PM
Do you watch the games? Konerko might be the most underappreciated defensive 1B in the game today. You know how many managers would kill to have a guy who can pick it like he does. If he played in Boston or NY he may have a Gold Glove.


Agreed. His D has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 2-3 years and he can pick throws out of the dirt with the best of them. It's amazing how this has gone so widely unnoticed by our own fans.

Save McCuddy's
03-19-2008, 11:27 PM
Do you watch the games? Konerko might be the most underappreciated defensive 1B in the game today. You know how many managers would kill to have a guy who can pick it like he does. If he played in Boston or NY he may have a Gold Glove.

And whoever thinks we resign Crede for Konerko money is nuts. The guy has never played 1 full season of good baseball. Infact, in his entire career, the guy has maybe a season total of quality ball and 1 great playoff stretch. In 2005, the playoffs made everyone forget how incredibly much Crede underpeformed during the year. I like him as much as the next guy, but thank god the people who want to give 12-13 mil a year to a guy with a 700 ops will never be in the front office.

The idea of Fields-Cabrera-Ramirez-Konerko for the next few years really excites me, thats an IF with an all star at every position potentially


Do you watch the games? 3rd base is a more difficult position to play than first as it requires a more complete infielder to play it. Many position players particularly corners make that transition rather smoothly. I never suggested that Fields would measure up to Konerko defensively or even come close. All I had said was that the drop off from Konerko to virtually any corner player on our current roster playing first in his stead would not in and of itself make us the worst defensive infield in baseball. That is preposterous.

guillen4life13
03-20-2008, 02:45 AM
3rd base is a much different position from 1B in terms of what is asked of the fielder. At 1B, your biggest responsibility is to catch a ball thrown to you by another fielder. If the ball is in the dirt going to 1B, you still have to make that scoop. 3B is more a field and throw position that's more reliant on instinct and reaction.

FWIW Konerko went through the Dodgers system as a C and 3B. He was moved to 1B to save his hips (and Mike Piazza was blocking him from being a C for the Dodgers), since he apparently has a degenerative condition of some sort. Konerko's an excellent scooper, probably due to his experience as catcher.

The only reason I'd want to move Konerko to 1B is, as he grows older, his hips may need a little more care and caution, so you move him to DH. If someone else is going to take over at 1B, IMO it should be Swisher.

Crede needs to be gone already!

gr8mexico
03-20-2008, 07:38 PM
WOW Ramirez is great. I think Ozzie has no other choice but to start Ramirez. Maybe Ramirez at 2nd and leadoff and then you can go with B.A in CF.

havelj
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
Do you watch the games? Konerko might be the most underappreciated defensive 1B in the game today. You know how many managers would kill to have a guy who can pick it like he does. If he played in Boston or NY he may have a Gold Glove.
The idea of Fields-Cabrera-Ramirez-Konerko for the next few years really excites me, thats an IF with an all star at every position potentially

I am with you 100%. Paulie is + at defense at 1B. I love that infield for a few years too.

I love Crede - but sometimes things just cannot work out. At least he won't go to the Northside ballclub.

2010 lineup:
CF-Owens
SS-Cabrera
LF-Swisher
1B-Konerko
3B-Fields
C-A.J.
DH-Dye
RF-Quentin
2B-Ramirez