PDA

View Full Version : Is There an Argument That We Should Keep Crede and Trade Fields?


TomBradley72
02-28-2008, 10:04 AM
Just for sake of debate and discussion (since there's a Uribe vs. Borchard debate going on in another thread :?:), could a case be made that KW should be looking to trade Fields not Crede?

We've signed/re-signed a ton of veterans to "go for it" this year (Buehrle, Dye, Linebrink, Dotel,etc.)...if Crede is healthy you get Gold Glove caliber defense along with a battle tested veteran and a fan favorite.
A Crede/Cabrera left side of the infield would help the pitching staff immensely.
Could Fields with his bargain price before being arb./FA eligible bring more in a trade than Crede? More progress to restock the farm system?
If we offered Crede a long term (4 year) deal at market rate would he take it to stay on the southside?
I'm concerned about Fields' defense and strike out frequency if we're going for it this year.
Could you package Uribe in the deal to help offset Crede's new salary level assuming you signed him?I know this isn't likely to happen...OK it's pretty much impossible....but I wanted to get a discussion going...what would you do if you were KW? As a fan, what would you like them to do?

palehozenychicty
02-28-2008, 10:07 AM
Economically, you just can't keep Crede. His uncertain health and inconsistent offense devalues his defensive prowess too much to sink a deep investment. He isn't the most athletic player either, on a team full of cloggers. Fields isn't a finished product yet, but his upside on the cheap is worth far more to the Sox right now. The fan in me would love to rotate them both in the position and DH, but that means one of the Four Horsemen would need to be moved, and that ain't happening. Thus, Fields it is.

JohnTucker0814
02-28-2008, 10:07 AM
What about putting Fields at 2B???

Should this be in teel?

skottyj242
02-28-2008, 10:10 AM
What about putting Fields at 2B???

Should this be in teel?


I don't see teel as an option. :stooges:

sox1970
02-28-2008, 10:13 AM
Crede's health, contract status, agent

+

Fields' numbers last year in four months, # of years under Sox control for cheap

=

Trade Crede

diehardRLsoxfan
02-28-2008, 10:13 AM
Just for sake of debate and discussion (since there's a Uribe vs. Borchard debate going on in another thread :?:), could a case be made that KW should be looking to trade Fields not Crede?
We've signed/re-signed a ton of veterans to "go for it" this year (Buehrle, Dye, Linebrink, Dotel,etc.)...if Crede is healthy you get Gold Glove caliber defense along with a battle tested veteran and a fan favorite.
A Crede/Cabrera left side of the infield would help the pitching staff immensely.
Could Fields with his bargain price before being arb./FA eligible bring more in a trade than Crede? More progress to restock the farm system?
If we offered Crede a long term (4 year) deal at market rate would he take it to stay on the southside?
I'm concerned about Fields' defense and strike out frequency if we're going for it this year.
Could you package Uribe in the deal to help offset Crede's new salary level assuming you signed him?I know this isn't likely to happen...OK it's pretty much impossible....but I wanted to get a discussion going...what would you do if you were KW? As a fan, what would you like them to do?

1.True

2.Very True

3.He absolutely would bring more back in a trade than Crede.

4.Nobody knows....but I would not want to risk it. If we can not keep him and we do trade Fields, then if we don't win it all this year, that means we will have Thome at third for the next few years.

5.I'm also concerned, but I think that he is going to make big strides in both of those areas this year.

6.You could package Uribe in the deal, but only to a team looking to increase their AOW (average overall weight)

To sum it up, as you did, this is not going to happen. I honestly don't think I would even want this to happen as much as I like what Crede brings to the table.

Tekijawa
02-28-2008, 10:15 AM
If we could get Santana and Cash for Fields then I wouldn't hesitate to move him!

michned
02-28-2008, 10:17 AM
And don't forget, if the Sox keep Crede and trade Fields, the price to sign him goes up. It puts all the pressure on the Sox to keep him since they already traded Fields. Boras would be licking his chops.

diehardRLsoxfan
02-28-2008, 10:18 AM
And don't forget, if the Sox keep Crede and trade Fields, the price to sign him goes up. It puts all the pressure on the Sox to keep him since they already traded Fields. Boras would be licking his chops.

Good point.

:thumbsup:

cws05champ
02-28-2008, 10:31 AM
I don't see any scenario where this is plausible. The only scenarios I see is: 1) Crede is traded in ST and Fields plays 3B 2) Crede plays well, starts at 3B and Fields goes to Charlotte, until Crede is traded later in the year(in this case the sox will probably be out of the race) 3) Crede plays well, starts at 3B and Fields goes to Charlotte for the year and the Sox are in contention well into Sept. Fields gets a Sept call up. 4) Crede plays, gets hurt, fields comes up and starts at 3B.

My $0.02

Jjav829
02-28-2008, 11:13 AM
The only scenario where it would make sense to trade Fields and keep Crede would be if some team desperate for offense was willing to give away a young, talented and already somewhat proven pitcher in return. For instance, if the Giants were willing to give up Matt Cain or something like that.

However, there is very, very little chance of any team doing that. No sane GM would trade a pitcher of that caliber for Fields. So, there really isn't any realistic argument for keeping Crede and trading Fields.

sox84
02-28-2008, 12:48 PM
NO! If circumstances were different, I definitely want Crede here for some time into the future, BUT circumstances are that Boras is his agent - he should be gone by opening day. If he had another agent, I think he'd likely already have been signed to an extension/new contract.

SoxNation05
02-28-2008, 12:53 PM
And don't forget, if the Sox keep Crede and trade Fields, the price to sign him goes up. It puts all the pressure on the Sox to keep him since they already traded Fields. Boras would be licking his chops.
Sign Crede first?

soltrain21
02-28-2008, 12:55 PM
I'll be pretty mad if Josh Fields starts the year in Charlotte. It just seems wrong.

balke
02-28-2008, 12:59 PM
The Sox might have the best possible scenario with having both for a while. Crede if he does play is no guarantee to stay healthy. Josh can relieve him a bunch. He can also DH for Thome against Lefties.

That'll never happen though, they'll probably just trade Crede.

Zisk77
02-28-2008, 12:59 PM
I think the argument would be to:

sign crede

Have Fields spell joe at 3b, Paulie at 1b and dh some (maybe some lF) This year.

Next year let Thome walk...Konerko to DH Fields full time, 1b Crede 3b.

Huisj
02-28-2008, 01:30 PM
What about putting Fields at 2B???

Should this be in teel?

The house I grew up in was on Teel Street in Lansing, MI. Back when I lived there, I might have thought about putting Fields at 2B, but not anymore.

ode to veeck
02-28-2008, 02:12 PM
You have to get Crede to long term contract before anything else.

skobabe8
02-28-2008, 02:49 PM
You have to get Crede to long term contract before anything else.

Yea, but before that he has to fire Boras.

Maybe we could get Sheffield and Crede to dinner? :cool:

Bucky F. Dent
02-28-2008, 08:24 PM
Sign Crede first?


Boras is smart enough not to do that.

Gotta be Crede to go.

chisox77
02-28-2008, 08:56 PM
Anyone know how long Eric Chavez is under contract?

Why do I ask?

I hate proposing trades, but I have thought about this scenario:

The White Sox can work another deal with the A's, offering Josh Fields (if Beane would be interested) for Chavez (sounds silly, unless you consider what Oakland is doing to dump salaries and go young).

The White Sox would eat all of Chavez' contract, while the A's would get a promising, young, and cheap player with a strong upside. And the Sox would get a left handed sluggning 3B with numerous gold gloves. In addition, the Sox could even package Floyd and Broadway to get Joe Blanton, adding more qualilty experience to the pitching staff. Then the Sox would be free to deal Crede for even more MLB pitching, or a least numerous pitching prospects.

I've thought of this for a few months, but Beane may not go for something like this, although it is something KW may or would try.

sircaffey1
02-28-2008, 09:03 PM
I am very happy Boras represents Crede. It gives an addition reason not to resign him.

sox1970
02-28-2008, 09:07 PM
Anyone know how long Eric Chavez is under contract?

Why do I ask?

I hate proposing trades, but I have thought about this scenario:

The White Sox can work another deal with the A's, offering Josh Fields (if Beane would be interested) for Chavez (sounds silly, unless you consider what Oakland is doing to dump salaries and go young).

The White Sox would eat all of Chavez' contract, while the A's would get a promising, young, and cheap player with a strong upside. And the Sox would get a left handed sluggning 3B with numerous gold gloves. In addition, the Sox could even package Floyd and Broadway to get Joe Blanton, adding more qualilty experience to the pitching staff. Then the Sox would be free to deal Crede for even more MLB pitching, or a least numerous pitching prospects.

I've thought of this for a few months, but Beane may not go for something like this, although it is something KW may or would try.

Never going to happen.

signed 6-Year worth 66M EXTENSION thru 2010 on 3/18/2004- deal includes 2011 option worth 12.5M or 3M buyout- + has a limited NO-TRADE clause and consent would be needed for trades to Cleveland, Florida, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Montreal, Mets ,Tampa Bay and Toronto- + he retains a full no-trade clause as a 10-5 player in Sept. 2008- + 3M signing bonus paid in 500K installments each Nov. 16 between 04 and 09- receives salaries of 8M in 2005, 9M in 2006, 9M in 2007, 11M in 2008, 11M in 2009 and 12M in 2010-

Bucky F. Dent
02-28-2008, 09:10 PM
I am very happy Boras represents Crede. It gives an addition reason not to resign him.


I am not happy about it, but it certainly makes the Fields v. Crede decision easier.

chisox77
02-28-2008, 09:12 PM
Never going to happen.

signed 6-Year worth 66M EXTENSION thru 2010 on 3/18/2004- deal includes 2011 option worth 12.5M or 3M buyout- + has a limited NO-TRADE clause and consent would be needed for trades to Cleveland, Florida, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Montreal, Mets ,Tampa Bay and Toronto- + he retains a full no-trade clause as a 10-5 player in Sept. 2008- + 3M signing bonus paid in 500K installments each Nov. 16 between 04 and 09- receives salaries of 8M in 2005, 9M in 2006, 9M in 2007, 11M in 2008, 11M in 2009 and 12M in 2010-


That's why I asked prior to the dream scenario I posted. BTW, thanks for the info. Very impressive and thorough.


:cool:

Bob G
03-03-2008, 11:22 AM
Crede's health, contract status, agent

+

Fields' numbers last year in four months, # of years under Sox control for cheap

=

Trade Crede

So let's assume Joe is healthy and gets traded - what would you consider his fair trade value to be?

Comparing Crede vs. Orlando Cabrera (who we gave up Garland for) both are excellent at fielding their positions and solid offensive players who have earned reputations as delivering in key situations. Other than Cabrera's advantage in speed the two are similar in many ways and they both are in the last year of their contract.

Is it realistic to expect a #3 or #4 starting pitcher in return for Crede? I think so.

Craig Grebeck
03-03-2008, 11:26 AM
So let's assume Joe is healthy and gets traded - what would you consider his fair trade value to be?

Comparing Crede vs. Orlando Cabrera (who we gave up Garland for) both are excellent at fielding their positions and solid offensive players who have earned reputations as delivering in key situations. Other than Cabrera's advantage in speed the two are similar in many ways and they both are in the last year of their contract.

Is it realistic to expect a #3 or #4 starting pitcher in return for Crede? I think so.
Cabrera's offense at SS is more valuable than Crede's at 3B. Crede just had back surgery. He's had one good season...ever.

That return is extremely unlikely.

getonbckthr
03-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Anyone know how long Eric Chavez is under contract?

Why do I ask?

I hate proposing trades, but I have thought about this scenario:

The White Sox can work another deal with the A's, offering Josh Fields (if Beane would be interested) for Chavez (sounds silly, unless you consider what Oakland is doing to dump salaries and go young).

The White Sox would eat all of Chavez' contract, while the A's would get a promising, young, and cheap player with a strong upside. And the Sox would get a left handed sluggning 3B with numerous gold gloves. In addition, the Sox could even package Floyd and Broadway to get Joe Blanton, adding more qualilty experience to the pitching staff. Then the Sox would be free to deal Crede for even more MLB pitching, or a least numerous pitching prospects.

I've thought of this for a few months, but Beane may not go for something like this, although it is something KW may or would try.
Even if Fields and Chavez were the same age and had the exact same contract Fields is better. Factor how much younger and and how much cheaper Fields is and there is no contest I would rather have Fields than Chavez. That deal should get Kenny Williams fired on the spot.

PolishPower83
03-03-2008, 11:45 AM
It'll be better for everyone if Crede is the one to go. The Sox can definitely get a quality starter out of Joe, and Fields would benefit from having a clean shot at 3B. If I'm Fields, I'm going to snap if I hear another defensive comparison to Crede. Competition is healthy, but come on! Fields has earned his shot.

Tragg
03-03-2008, 11:57 AM
Could Fields with his bargain price before being arb./FA eligible bring more in a trade than Crede? More progress to restock the farm system?

Could he bring more??
If Fields were on another team, the list would be a mile long about what we'd have to give up to get him.


If the Sox aren't willing to let a promising manager like Fields play, then, yea, load up with 30 year old vets who don't hit very well.

ksimpson14
03-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Konerko says, whatever you pick, do it quick! :?: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/822214,CST-SPT-sox03.article

Isn't it really more beneficial to wait? I don't see why the rest of the club would care THAT much, shouldn't be that hard to do your own job without knowing the starting 3B, and plenty of other positions have platooned. Or is PK worried about himself (Sox realizing they could keep both and trade Konerko?) Possibly reading too much into it (just seems weird to hear a player comment on other player trade rumors like that)

sox1970
03-03-2008, 01:27 PM
Konerko says, whatever you pick, do it quick! :?: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/822214,CST-SPT-sox03.article

Isn't it really more beneficial to wait? I don't see why the rest of the club would care THAT much, shouldn't be that hard to do your own job without knowing the starting 3B, and plenty of other positions have platooned. Or is PK worried about himself (Sox realizing they could keep both and trade Konerko?) Possibly reading too much into it (just seems weird to hear a player comment on other player trade rumors like that)

I don't think Konerko is thinking about his own situation. He's just saying it's better for the team to know who is playing where, the lineup, etc. The longer it goes on, the more of a distraction it will become. It'll also be beneficial for the team that trades for Crede to get him in there pretty soon so he can play with them for a couple weeks. I expect Crede to be dealt in the next 10 days.

PolishPower83
03-03-2008, 01:28 PM
Or is PK worried about himself (Sox realizing they could keep both and trade Konerko?) Possibly reading too much into it (just seems weird to hear a player comment on other player trade rumors like that)

I don't think Paulie's too worried about his own status with the Sox. It's him trying to be a more vocal leader. He said he feels he dropped the ball last year in terms of speaking out. And as one of Sox's veterans, I think he would know what could potentially harm the chemistry and cohesiveness of the team.

esbrechtel
03-04-2008, 08:54 AM
after seeing Lowry's outing we better look somewhere besides SF...We have enough pitchers who can't find the strike zone (Macdougal, Contreras, etc)

Jenks4Prez
03-04-2008, 03:17 PM
No

TomBradley72
03-04-2008, 07:46 PM
I've seen Ozzie quoted as saying the decision will be made based on winning this year. Unless we can acquire a 2008 difference maker...I think we should keep Crede and Fields goes down to AAA as insurance against injury to Crede, Thome or Konerko. And to continue to refine his defense.

If we make it to the post season...it will be worth it. If we're not contending..we can trade Joe at the trade deadline and probably get similar value we'll get trading him before the season to San Francisco..worst case we get some draft picks next year when he goes FA.

We signed alot of veterans to "go for it now"...I think we play that strategy all the way through.

Craig Grebeck
03-04-2008, 08:02 PM
I've seen Ozzie quoted as saying the decision will be made based on winning this year. Unless we can acquire a 2008 difference maker...I think we should keep Crede and Fields goes down to AAA as insurance against injury to Crede, Thome or Konerko. And to continue to refine his defense.

If we make it to the post season...it will be worth it. If we're not contending..we can trade Joe at the trade deadline and probably get similar value we'll get trading him before the season to San Francisco..worst case we get some draft picks next year when he goes FA.

We signed alot of veterans to "go for it now"...I think we play that strategy all the way through.

We won't get draft picks for Joe if he leaves via FA.

champagne030
03-04-2008, 08:07 PM
I've seen Ozzie quoted as saying the decision will be made based on winning this year. Unless we can acquire a 2008 difference maker...I think we should keep Crede and Fields goes down to AAA as insurance against injury to Crede, Thome or Konerko. And to continue to refine his defense.

If we make it to the post season...it will be worth it. If we're not contending..we can trade Joe at the trade deadline and probably get similar value we'll get trading him before the season to San Francisco..worst case we get some draft picks next year when he goes FA.

We signed alot of veterans to "go for it now"...I think we play that strategy all the way through.

Agreed, except for the part about receiving draft picks. The White Sox seem to be putting all of their chips into winning this year and Crede provides a better chance of that over Fields in 2008. Fields is insurance or gets to play if we're out of it.......

TomBradley72
03-04-2008, 08:22 PM
Agreed, except for the part about receiving draft picks.

My bad on that piece. I'd still keep him unless someone really "wows" us.