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1989
02-28-2008, 12:38 AM
any report on whether he is still injured? haven't heard much about him in any of the articles I read nor have I seen any pics of our future stud. Is the staff just taking it easy with him?

fozzy
02-28-2008, 01:44 AM
i'm more of a lurker here so i don't know the posting rules... i hope this is cool. this link is from another sox message board. a poster has a real good report from spring training including pictures and even a video of quentin taking bp

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63101&st=45

JorgeFabregas
02-28-2008, 09:48 AM
According to a post on here he played in an intra-squad game.

michned
02-28-2008, 10:20 AM
I've seen him take regular defensive drills and batting practice, but I believe he's still taking it slowly when it comes to throwing.

spawn
02-29-2008, 11:06 AM
Looks like he's in the lineup today...

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/

doublem23
02-29-2008, 11:16 AM
Owens, CF; Cabrera, SS; Thome, DH; Dye, RF; AJ, C; Fields, 3B; Quentin, LF; Liefer, 1B; Uribe, 2B. Buehrle pitching.

:o:

Jeff Liefer?

Edit: Yep! (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150325)

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 12:13 PM
It makes me absolutely nauseous to think that Owens-Cabrera may be our 1-2 this season.

palehozenychicty
02-29-2008, 12:13 PM
:o:

Jeff Liefer?

Edit: Yep! (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150325)

Wow. :o:

KRS1
02-29-2008, 12:23 PM
It makes me absolutely nauseous to think that Owens-Cabrera may be our 1-2 this season.

Why would you lump OC in with Owens in that statement. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't much better a fit for the 2-hole than Orlando. He's pretty much my(and Ozzie's) ideal 2 hitter.

doublem23
02-29-2008, 12:47 PM
It makes me absolutely nauseous to think that Owens-Cabrera may be our 1-2 this season.

:?:

Did you even look at his stats (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150325) before you made such a claim? Lifetime .273/.321/.403 hitter who averages 11 homers, 39 doubles, and 19 stolen bases every 162 games... That's not terrible from the #2 hole, especially consider he should see a lot to hit since he'll be in front of Thome/Konerko; as Brian pointed out they make up 1/3 of AL players who hit 30+ HR last year.

Truthfully Owens scares me, but I'm pretty content with Orlando batting 2nd.

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 01:04 PM
:?:

Did you even look at his stats (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150325) before you made such a claim? Lifetime .273/.321/.403 hitter who averages 11 homers, 39 doubles, and 19 stolen bases every 162 games... That's not terrible from the #2 hole, especially consider he should see a lot to hit since he'll be in front of Thome/Konerko; as Brian pointed out they make up 1/3 of AL players who hit 30+ HR last year.

Truthfully Owens scares me, but I'm pretty content with Orlando batting 2nd.
Owens was who I'm at issue with. I have no problem with Orlando; ideally I'd put him leading off with Swisher batting second -- assuming Ozzie doesn't make Swisher give himself up. Ideally...

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
AJP
Fields
Quentin
Richar

CHIsoxNation
02-29-2008, 01:46 PM
Owens was who I'm at issue with. I have no problem with Orlando; ideally I'd put him leading off with Swisher batting second -- assuming Ozzie doesn't make Swisher give himself up. Ideally...

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
AJP
Fields
Quentin
Richar

That right there is the reason Swisher shouldn't bat second. I don't think Swisher is the type that you want to see have the bat taken out of his hands on a regular basis. Cabrera has openly admitted to liking the #2 spot and enjoys taking the ball to opposite field to advance the runner and on hit and runs. Swisher gets on base a lot but I think his bat would be better used in the middle of the lineup.

ksimpson14
02-29-2008, 01:51 PM
I thought I had rid myself of Liefer

Frontman
02-29-2008, 03:21 PM
This would be my lineup if I could (and everyone was healthy)

1 Cabrera SS
2 Quentin LF
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynksi C
7 Swisher CF
8 Fields 3B (yes, I have resigned to the fact that Joe Crede is all but gone)
9 Uribe/Richar 2B

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 03:54 PM
This would be my lineup if I could (and everyone was healthy)

1 Cabrera SS
2 Quentin LF
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynksi C
7 Swisher CF
8 Fields 3B (yes, I have resigned to the fact that Joe Crede is all but gone)
9 Uribe/Richar 2B
Why Swisher so low? He's infinitely better than AJP. The lowest he should bat is 5th.

skobabe8
02-29-2008, 04:41 PM
LOL...Did anyone else think the title was Carlos Quentin Statues? :D:

Hitmen77
02-29-2008, 05:05 PM
LOL...Did anyone else think the title was Carlos Quentin Statues? :D:

That kept registering in my mind too. :redneck

veeter
02-29-2008, 05:39 PM
It makes me absolutely nauseous to think that Owens-Cabrera may be our 1-2 this season.So, let me get this staright. You'll defend an aging player who has absolutely no chance of improving and write off a young, speedy player that by the end of his ROOKIE season, was playing great. THAT player makes you sick? Who lacks baseball intelligence?

Brian26
02-29-2008, 06:39 PM
LOL...Did anyone else think the title was Carlos Quentin Statues? :D:

Yep. I saw the same thing. :rolling:

JohnTucker0814
02-29-2008, 06:49 PM
This would be my lineup if I could (and everyone was healthy)

1 Cabrera SS
2 Quentin LF
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Pierzynksi C
7 Swisher CF
8 Fields 3B (yes, I have resigned to the fact that Joe Crede is all but gone)
9 Uribe/Richar 2B

vs RH

1 Owens LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Swisher CF
7 Fields 3B
8 Pierzynski C
9 Ramirez 2B

vs LHP

1 Ramirez 2B
2 Cabrera SS
3 Dye DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Swisher RF
6 Quentin LF
7 Fields 3B
8 Pierzynski C
9 Anderson CF

This is what I'd like to see... realistic... probably not!

WhiteSox5187
02-29-2008, 06:59 PM
vs RH

1 Owens LF
2 Cabrera SS
3 Thome DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Dye RF
6 Swisher CF
7 Fields 3B
8 Pierzynski C
9 Ramirez 2B

vs LHP

1 Ramirez 2B
2 Cabrera SS
3 Dye DH
4 Konerko 1B
5 Swisher RF
6 Quentin LF
7 Fields 3B
8 Pierzynski C
9 Anderson CF

This is what I'd like to see... realistic... probably not!
What happens to Richar in that lineup? Back to AAA? I'm not sure he's ready to be a bench player.

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 07:08 PM
So, let me get this staright. You'll defend an aging player who has absolutely no chance of improving and write off a young, speedy player that by the end of his ROOKIE season, was playing great. THAT player makes you sick? Who lacks baseball intelligence?
What part of Jerry Owens is young? The guy is 27 years old. That is not young in any sense of the word.

I don't care if Jim Thome has no chance of improving, the guy is an absolute star performer no matter how you spin it. I will defend him until he is out of Chicago and beyond; the guy has done nothing but perform here and he has gotten as much flak as anyone for the last two seasons. People with agendas single him out because we gave up the glorified left fielder Aaron Rowand for him.

Now, Owens was not great by the end of the year last year. He may have appeared as great because a great many of his balls in play were not caught - which is an abnormality. His monthly splits (http://firstinning.com/players/Jerry-Owens-a/)

His LD and GB percentages were in line with his other months, but his BABIP took a ridiculous jump. It made his otherwise awful campaign somewhat less awful, and created enough of a facade to give fans some sad hope that the guy has the potential to break out this season. Even though he posted a ridiculously high average, his ISO fell considerably, further showing that his numbers were absolutely skewed by luck. They were not a sign of things to come. They were uncharacteristic for a player of his caliber; and that caliber is that of a average 4th OF.

Take a look at Carlos Quentin's numbers and get back to me. Not to mention Owens' absolutely awful CF defense...

veeter
02-29-2008, 07:27 PM
First of all, I don't give a **** about Aaron Rowand. You like Jim Thome, I don't. I like Jerry owens, you don't. Thome has been anything but a star since he got here. I've pointed out his flaws on the other thread. He can still hit the long ball, but so can Sammy Sosa. Jim, though, is great clubhouse guy, for sure. Owens has huge flaws too, but at least let him try to get better. Whether he's 21 or 27, he's still only been exposed to the bigs for, not quite, a full season. Will he get better, who knows. But to me, he looks like he could be at least as good as a healthy Pods, maybe better. But when you start throwing out numbers and splits like you're Billy Beane, you lose me. Because if the numbers show Jerry didn't finish strong, they're incorrect.

santo=dorf
02-29-2008, 07:49 PM
First of all, I don't give a **** about Aaron Rowand. You like Jim Thome, I don't. I like Jerry owens, you don't. Thome has been anything but a star since he got here. I've pointed out his flaws on the other thread. He can still hit the long ball, but so can Sammy Sosa. Jim, though, is great clubhouse guy, for sure. Owens has huge flaws too, but at least let him try to get better. Whether he's 21 or 27, he's still only been exposed to the bigs for, not quite, a full season. Will he get better, who knows. But to me, he looks like he could be at least as good as a healthy Pods, maybe better. But when you start throwing out numbers and splits like you're Billy Beane, you lose me. Because if the numbers show Jerry didn't finish strong, they're incorrect.
Seriously veeter, just shut up and quit embarrassing yourself with your Thome bashing.

He made the All-Star team in 2006, 4th best OPS in the AL in 2006, 5th best OPS in the AL in 2007. So he has in fact been a star since the trade.

The White Sox are trying to win right now. We don't have the patience to "try" and let Owens get better.

Taliesinrk
02-29-2008, 07:51 PM
Take a look at Carlos Quentin's numbers and get back to me. Not to mention Owens' absolutely awful CF defense.

He's not "absolutely awful" in CF! Quit being obsessed with stats and watch the games to make judgements of players. Stats can only go so far. IF the Sox built their team around your theories (offensive stats win games and nothing else matters), then the 05 Sox would have been a complete dream.

veeter
02-29-2008, 08:10 PM
Seriously veeter, just shut up and quit embarrassing yourself with your Thome bashing.

He made the All-Star team in 2006, 4th best OPS in the AL in 2006, 5th best OPS in the AL in 2007. So he has in fact been a star since the trade.

The White Sox are trying to win right now. We don't have the patience to "try" and let Owens get better.This wasn't a Thome bashing. And I'm not going to shut up.

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 08:40 PM
He's not "absolutely awful" in CF! Quit being obsessed with stats and watch the games to make judgements of players. Stats can only go so far. IF the Sox built their team around your theories (offensive stats win games and nothing else matters), then the 05 Sox would have been a complete dream.
Owens was not good. I trust Daver's analysis of him in center.

The Sox have a CF --- Nick Swisher.

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 08:42 PM
First of all, I don't give a **** about Aaron Rowand. You like Jim Thome, I don't. I like Jerry owens, you don't. Thome has been anything but a star since he got here. I've pointed out his flaws on the other thread. He can still hit the long ball, but so can Sammy Sosa. Jim, though, is great clubhouse guy, for sure. Owens has huge flaws too, but at least let him try to get better. Whether he's 21 or 27, he's still only been exposed to the bigs for, not quite, a full season. Will he get better, who knows. But to me, he looks like he could be at least as good as a healthy Pods, maybe better. But when you start throwing out numbers and splits like you're Billy Beane, you lose me. Because if the numbers show Jerry didn't finish strong, they're incorrect.
How can numbers be incorrect? What the hell are you talking about?

They show that that month was an aberration in the grand scheme of things. They show that despite his basic statistics being strong, the main reason for that was: LUCK.

I know it's tough to grasp, but OPS>SB. Denigrating Thome's contributions while propping up Owens is absolutely awful.

BainesHOF
02-29-2008, 09:52 PM
I don't see how we can even dream of making the playoffs if Owen bats leadoff. At best, he's a No. 9 hitter on a winning team.

JohnTucker0814
02-29-2008, 10:09 PM
What happens to Richar in that lineup? Back to AAA? I'm not sure he's ready to be a bench player.

I'd say, yes Richar would start the year in AAA... If Ramirez pans out like we all hope, he moves to SS next year to replace Cabrera and Richar comes up to take over 2b with an extra year of full time play. Uribe backs up both 2b & SS, Ozuna backs up 3b & 2b, Swisher is back up 1b, OF of Quentin, Owens, Dye, Swisher, Anderson... so your 25 looks like this;

A.J. Pierzynski
Toby Hall
Paul Konerko
Jim Thome
Alexi Ramirez
Orlando Cabrera
Juan Uribe
Joe Crede
Josh Fields
Carlos Quentin
Jerry Owens
Jermaine Dye
Nick Swisher
Brian Anderson

Mark Buehrle
Javier Vazquez
Jose Contreres
John Danks
Gavin Floyd
Bobby Jenks
Octavio Dotel
Scott Linebrink
Ehren Wassurman (? spelling)
Boone Logan
11th man... (MacDougal yuk)

I think that is a ton of depth... there is no reason to waste Anderson in AAA... bring him up for his defense if anything!

Chilli Palmer
02-29-2008, 10:14 PM
Crede and Fields will not be on the same team.

Taliesinrk
03-01-2008, 11:21 AM
Owens was not good. I trust Daver's analysis of him in center.

The Sox have a CF --- Nick Swisher.

Alright. I can't win (apparently). I'll preface this with the fact that I don't know how good (defensively) Swisher is because I have not seen him play enough. But I am worried that he turns out Mackowiak-esque as a CF. So if the day comes and he is your CF, half the people on this board should not be able to bitch about it. I guess we'll see what Ozzie does with the situation, but I'm not sure that he's sold on the fact that Swish is a full-time CF either.

TomBradley72
03-01-2008, 11:38 AM
Alright. I can't win (apparently). I'll preface this with the fact that I don't know how good (defensively) Swisher is because I have not seen him play enough. But I am worried that he turns out Mackowiak-esque as a CF. So if the day comes and he is your CF, half the people on this board should not be able to bitch about it. I guess we'll see what Ozzie does with the situation, but I'm not sure that he's sold on the fact that Swish is a full-time CF either.

I agree with your post. Some people keep talking about the OF at the Cell being smaller than the A's stadium..which s inaccurate. Since the renovations for the football configuraton...the park has become a hitters ballpark (other than the large foul territory around the IF). Left Center and Right Center are 362' from home plate, the power alleys move to 388' and straight away center is 400'...so it's pretty much the same as The Cell...just a different "shape". Looking at our Division rivals...you have a fast/artificial turf OF in Minnesota, and one of the largest OFs in Detroit...that's about 100 games of your schedule right there.

If anyone can name a weaker defensive starting CF on an AL contender...I'd love to hear it. Combined with Fields at 3B (even though he is improving) and Dye's diminishing range due to age in RF...we could be in real trouble defensively if Swisher is our every day CF.

diehardRLsoxfan
03-01-2008, 12:46 PM
Due to the fact that my Dad lives in Oakland and is an avid A's fan I have seen quite a few A's games over the years.

Swisher is not the mess in center that Machowiak was. He will play an average center field for us with a better arm than Jerry Owens. I think that Owens with his speed would be able to cover more ground but from what I have seen Swisher tends to get a decent read on the ball.

Metalthrasher442
03-01-2008, 12:50 PM
Getting back on topic with Carlos Quentin. Does anybody know what his status is haha? I've heard the he wasn't 100% but then he has played in spring training. I'd love to see what he can do with a full season. Any one know if he'll be 100% by opening day?

Craig Grebeck
03-01-2008, 01:19 PM
I agree with your post. Some people keep talking about the OF at the Cell being smaller than the A's stadium..which s inaccurate. Since the renovations for the football configuraton...the park has become a hitters ballpark (other than the large foul territory around the IF). Left Center and Right Center are 362' from home plate, the power alleys move to 388' and straight away center is 400'...so it's pretty much the same as The Cell...just a different "shape". Looking at our Division rivals...you have a fast/artificial turf OF in Minnesota, and one of the largest OFs in Detroit...that's about 100 games of your schedule right there.

If anyone can name a weaker defensive starting CF on an AL contender...I'd love to hear it. Combined with Fields at 3B (even though he is improving) and Dye's diminishing range due to age in RF...we could be in real trouble defensively if Swisher is our every day CF.
Speed does not equal range. Swisher is just flat out better than Owens defensively and has a much, much better arm. What would be best for the defensive alignment in the OF is to have your strongest defensive OF out there: Carlos Quentin. Dye LF Swisher CF Quentin RF is inarguably the best defensive alignment.

cards press box
03-01-2008, 01:20 PM
What about Swisher in LF and a platoon of Owens and Anderson in CF. The Sox could work in Quentin: (a) in RF when Dye has a day off or plays DH and (b) in LF when Swisher plays 1B to spell Konerko. Platooning doesn't seem so common anymore but some great managers like Casey Stengel and Earl Weaver loved to platoon. If Anderson handles lefties and Owens continues to bat well against righties, then the Sox should consider this.

Yes, this would also mean carrying 11 pitchers but I'm not a fan of 12 pitchers, anyway. If MacDougal doesn't make the team (and he still has options), the Sox could have a six man bullpen of Jenks/Dotel/Linebrink/Wasserman/Thornton and either Masset or Logan. I don't want to see the Sox simply give up Masset (who is out of options). It would make more sense to keep him or, alternatively, package him with Crede and/or Uribe in a trade. I would hope that such a trade brings back value and, to me, it doesn't matter whether such value is a major league player(s) or prospects with upside.

Anyway, if Anderson plays well this spring, it would give the Sox some nice options and additional defensive depth in the outfield.

Craig Grebeck
03-01-2008, 01:34 PM
What is one good reason not to play Quentin?

Taliesinrk
03-01-2008, 03:24 PM
Speed does not equal range. Swisher is just flat out better than Owens defensively and has a much, much better arm. What would be best for the defensive alignment in the OF is to have your strongest defensive OF out there: Carlos Quentin. Dye LF Swisher CF Quentin RF is inarguably the best defensive alignment.

False. The best defensive alignment it CLEARLY: CF - ANDERSON. Why not Quentin?? BECAUSE HE'S NEVER PLAYED A SINGLE MAJOR LEAGUE GAME IN CF!! And how is it that Swisher is so superior in CF than Owens???!!!??? He's played 61 career games in CF - how many have you seen with him playing there? Honestly. These statements are now completely ridiculous.

Your love affair with the combo of Swisher/Quentin is on the verge of being unhealthy. The extreme hate you display for Owens is beyond comprehension.

Taliesinrk
03-01-2008, 03:26 PM
What about Swisher in LF and a platoon of Owens and Anderson in CF. The Sox could work in Quentin: (a) in RF when Dye has a day off or plays DH and (b) in LF when Swisher plays 1B to spell Konerko. Platooning doesn't seem so common anymore but some great managers like Casey Stengel and Earl Weaver loved to platoon. If Anderson handles lefties and Owens continues to bat well against righties, then the Sox should consider this.

Yes, this would also mean carrying 11 pitchers but I'm not a fan of 12 pitchers, anyway. If MacDougal doesn't make the team (and he still has options), the Sox could have a six man bullpen of Jenks/Dotel/Linebrink/Wasserman/Thornton and either Masset or Logan. I don't want to see the Sox simply give up Masset (who is out of options). It would make more sense to keep him or, alternatively, package him with Crede and/or Uribe in a trade. I would hope that such a trade brings back value and, to me, it doesn't matter whether such value is a major league player(s) or prospects with upside.

Anyway, if Anderson plays well this spring, it would give the Sox some nice options and additional defensive depth in the outfield.

I hadn't given much thought to this scenario. I like it though. The question is who leads off when JO is out of the line-up? I think Ozuna would be good as a lead-off hitter vs. LHP, but I'm not sure where he plays, or how that works out.

Craig Grebeck
03-01-2008, 03:32 PM
False. The best defensive alignment it CLEARLY: CF - ANDERSON. Why not Quentin?? BECAUSE HE'S NEVER PLAYED A SINGLE MAJOR LEAGUE GAME IN CF!! And how is it that Swisher is so superior in CF than Owens???!!!??? He's played 61 career games in CF - how many have you seen with him playing there? Honestly. These statements are now completely ridiculous.

Your love affair with the combo of Swisher/Quentin is on the verge of being unhealthy. The extreme hate you display for Owens is beyond comprehension.
You should really re-read that; I wrote Swisher - CF.

Owens has a weak arm and gets downright awful jumps on the ball. Speed does not equate to range and Owens has shown that.

Swisher is an average defensive CF and average>Owens.

Quentin has destroyed Owens at every level; Owens was older than Quentin at every level in the minor leagues. The fact that Owens is involved in a competition with Quentin shows just how backwards and crazy Ozzie's philosophy is.

We all know Anderson won't start. He'd be fantastic as a defensive replacement on the bench though.

Scottiehaswheels
03-01-2008, 03:35 PM
The fact that Owens is involved in a competition with Owens shows just how backwards and crazy Ozzie's philosophy is. In competition with himself? :scratch:No kidding, that is crazy. :cool:

Taliesinrk
03-01-2008, 03:43 PM
You should really re-read that; I wrote Swisher - CF.
ah hell. my apologies.

Owens has a weak arm and gets downright awful jumps on the ball. Speed does not equate to range and Owens has shown that.
I pretty much agree with this, except not to the extent. Obviously speed doesn't = range, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as you're making him out to be.

Swisher is an average defensive CF and average>Owens.
I can't comment on the first part, I haven't seen Swisher play it enough. I have seen Owens play, and I think you are incorrect.

Quentin has destroyed Owens at every level; Owens was older than Quentin at every level in the minor leagues. The fact that Owens is involved in a competition with Owens shows just how backwards and crazy Ozzie's philosophy is.
Minor league stats don't mean much in this conversation. It's about what fits the needs of the team the most. Quentin could be very good. As I've said before, I've had discussions about him with a teammate of his from Tuscon last year who thinks he's a solid player, and I hope he's great. Regardless, he's coming off an injury and leaves us without a true lead-off hitter. We've seen for the past 2 years the differences in a line-up with a good lead-off hitter (Pods healthy) and a bad lead-off hitter (Pods hurt).

We all know Anderson won't start. He'd be fantastic as a defensive replacement on the bench though.
Yes