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View Full Version : Seriously - have you changed as a fan since 2005?


tony1972
02-27-2008, 08:11 PM
One thing I observed in 2006 and 2007 was the difference in the fan reactions (and myself) towards the team during some of the losing (and winning) stretches...that I didn't see prior to the 2005 season..

Here are some changes I've observed:

(1) Sox fans seem to be more supportive of the team during losing stretches. By this I don't mean that if the Sox lose 90 plus games year after year..we'll pack the place like Cubs fans...but the fans seem more willing to stick with the team now during a losing streak (season) than they did before 2005.

(2) Sox fans seem to have mellowed. My observation is that there is less booing of the players..the fans seem to enjoy the game and the ballpark more (even a loss)..and there is less anger after a loss. Not that there isn't anger now..but prior to 05..fans were really bitter after a loss...Now it's more just disappointment.

(3) Sox fans have lost the chip on their shoulders. Once upon a time..it was Cubs fans that always cheered during a losing effort..always seemed to be more happy at the game, etc. Us Sox fans where the bitter ones..the ones who booed..the ones who boycotted the team, the owner, the ballpark,etc. NOW - Cubs fans are the angry ones..the ones who boo...we seem to be more at the game for the enjoyment of baseball..

Personally, (for me)..it's not that I'm happy now if the Sox lose..BUT..I don't know how to describe it...but I have enjoyed the games more since 2005. I equate it to winning millions of dollars in the lotto once..sure..you want to win again and again..but there's that thing that says Crap..I did win once! it feels pretty good. Just knowing they once won..does make losses more easier...

My question is since 2005 have you

(A) Mellowed...now you're there more for the enjoyment of baseball..sure you get angry when they lose..but not as angry as you used to get...?

or

(B) since they've won and you've tasted victory..you are now harder on the team..losses are more bitter..you don't enjoy the games more etc..

For me it's A..but I don't think anyones responses personally are right or wrong..I'm just curious...

ksimpson14
02-27-2008, 08:15 PM
No, I'm the same, I just react accordingly when there's higher expectations or I see big opportunities

I'm not one of these who likes these sweeping generalizations about fan bases. I like my team, am passionate about it, I would never abandon it or anything, but it doesn't mean I won't get mad or hold back when it's deserved. As far as booing, I would only boo a player if there is some obvious lack of effort (not just on the result), or if there was some real dumb or offensive comment or action from the player. I would never trash the field, that's ridiculous.

soxfan21
02-27-2008, 08:21 PM
I have always gone to Sox games for the enjoyment of baseball, and still do become angry after losses. I guess that since we won it all only two short years ago, it may be a little easier to take losses now than it was before '05. I think that cubs fans are becoming more angry now because we won it all before they did, and boston has won it twice in just 4 years so they are seeing the success of teams that before 2004, did not win a championship in some time, so they now have the longest drought for winning a championship in all major sports, but who cares what they think, Go SOX!

JB98
02-27-2008, 08:37 PM
I still hate losing. I still have a giant chip on my shoulder. In fact, I still hate the losing more than I enjoy the winning. When we win, I feel relieved more than anything. When we lose, I'm just furious. I was that way when I played ball as a kid too.

One thing that 2005 taught me, don't draw any grand conclusions about a team during a losing streak. Even a World Series champion will have periods during the season where they play like absolute horse****. So, as much as I abhor losing, it's easier for me to keep the big picture in mind now when we're struggling.

diehardRLsoxfan
02-27-2008, 08:39 PM
Now it is easier to end arguments with my flubs fan friends.....other than that, I'm about the same.

Red Barchetta
02-27-2008, 09:06 PM
I agree that it's easier to end arguments with Cubs fans (especially when I'm wearing my parade/championship jacket :smile:), however over all, I'm disappointed that the WS winning team core has changed so much since 2005 and that we didn't have back-to-back playoff seasons.

I agree we need to keep moving, however I thought we had a pretty good season in 2006. I don't think any of us expected the AL Central to be that strong. I hate reading articles that include "collapse" and "90 wins" in the same paragraph. I was disappointed not only as a SOX fan, but also in the fact we could have really narrowed the fan gap and media gap in Chicago.

I'm more removed from the 2005 team this year and simply hope that we can get back to the exciting baseball, "Ozzieball" or "Grinderball" that was played in 2005.

34rancher
02-27-2008, 09:07 PM
I definitely find myself being more mellow after losses. I used to be in BAD moods on losses and I would be crabby and moody a lot. Since then, I am much like a "eh, whatever". Do not get me wrong, I still cheer and am in a good mood when they win and do great things, but I am not nearly as moody or upset when they lose. They have a grace period of a couple more years until the grouch comes back. Maybe it was actually going to game 1 of the WS that did that though...

Frontman
02-27-2008, 09:18 PM
I'm more relaxed. I enjoy the games more now; knowing that with a win, it gets us closer to post-season play. With the losses? Meh. Live has more important things than baseball in it; and I will always have the memories and the feelings of not just 2005; but it somehow makes moments like Mark's No-hitter or Thome's 500 just be enjoyable. I can always dig out my "Sox Pride" DVD and see how my favorite team came together in all aspects when it was needed most.

I also accept that one day, the 25 man roster will not have a single member of the 2005 squad on it; and that team will become part of the story that is White Sox baseball.

And I hope that my son will not have to tell his son who then will tell his son what it was like to see a championship.

I think KW/Ozzie/Coop and the staff have shown the desire and make the hard decisions to win a championship.

SOXfnNlansing
02-27-2008, 09:31 PM
a

Vestigio
02-27-2008, 09:42 PM
From what I encountered, there are fewer "Cubs Suck" chants while walking down the ramps, after a Sox loss

Jurr
02-27-2008, 09:46 PM
I'm more relaxed. I enjoy the games more now; knowing that with a win, it gets us closer to post-season play. With the losses? Meh. Live has more important things than baseball in it; and I will always have the memories and the feelings of not just 2005; but it somehow makes moments like Mark's No-hitter or Thome's 500 just be enjoyable. I can always dig out my "Sox Pride" DVD and see how my favorite team came together in all aspects when it was needed most.

I also accept that one day, the 25 man roster will not have a single member of the 2005 squad on it; and that team will become part of the story that is White Sox baseball.

And I hope that my son will not have to tell his son who then will tell his son what it was like to see a championship.

I think KW/Ozzie/Coop and the staff have shown the desire and make the hard decisions to win a championship.
Perfectly said.

I want Mags back
02-27-2008, 10:07 PM
I think I'm B. Now that we've been there and done it, I except nothing less than that every year now. This year I am going in with somewhat lower expectations though, but I don't think I would ever really be in the A range

Vernam
02-27-2008, 10:10 PM
Sox fans seem to be more supportive of the team during losing stretches. By this I don't mean that if the Sox lose 90 plus games year after year..we'll pack the place like Cubs fans...but the fans seem more willing to stick with the team now during a losing streak (season) than they did before 2005.Yep, I was shocked by how little booing there was last year. Since 2005, I've been saying Sox fans could stand to go a little in the direction of supporting our team come what may. Cynical reverse snobs that many of us are, it's healthy to tone down the win-or-die mentality a notch or two.

Sox fans have lost the chip on their shoulders. Once upon a time..it was Cubs fans that always cheered during a losing effort..always seemed to be more happy at the game, etc. Us Sox fans where the bitter ones..the ones who booed..the ones who boycotted the team, the owner, the ballpark,etc. NOW - Cubs fans are the angry ones..the ones who boo...we seem to be more at the game for the enjoyment of baseball.I agree that many Cub fans crossed a threshold after 2003 and have become embittered. (You could also ask them how they felt about 2005!) Can't say as I blame 'em, the way that team has emptied fans' pockets over the years with little intent to compete for championships. But I have to disagree about Sox fans' having lost the chips on our shoulders. Just take a look around WSI, you know? :mg: Still, I'll take Sox fans -- especially the articulate, non-apocalyptic type -- over all other teams' fans any day of the week. But I'm not so sure about the ones who'd like to see Kenny and Ozzie gone and try to make the rest of us feel like saps for not feeling the same way. As I said, we've got a LONG way to go before we're see-no-evil fans like the other team in town used to have.

In fact, Sox fans ought to look hard at the hateful environment that's cropped up across town, where a fair number of players clearly haven't enjoyed playing in Wrigley everyday in recent years. And it's not because of all those day games. Players seem to genuinely enjoy being part of the Sox organization, and being treated well by fans is part of that.

Personally, (for me)..it's not that I'm happy now if the Sox lose..BUT..I don't know how to describe it...but I have enjoyed the games more since 2005. I equate it to winning millions of dollars in the lotto once..sure..you want to win again and again..but there's that thing that says Crap..I did win once! it feels pretty good. Just knowing they once won..does make losses more easier...My dad made himself miserable following this team for 80 years. :geezer: And I mean literally: The Sox would ruin his day if they lost, even if it was September and they were 20 games out. So I swore early on that I'd never take losses that way. I don't think you have to make yourself miserable when they lose just so you can claim you're the biggest fan when they win. Because, basically . . . no one cares, you know? If someone wants to work himself into a frenzy over a bad game, week, month, or season, that's on them. Life's too short. Maybe winning in 2005 makes it easier to feel that way, but I've always tried to keep it in perspective.

You all can remind me I said that when I flip out sometime this season. :angry::halo::redface:

Vernam

HomeFish
02-27-2008, 10:48 PM
I am much less worried about the Sox collapsing these days. Whatever happens, I will always be able to say that I saw the White Sox win a World Championship in my lifetime.

Before 2005, it was very plausible that I would never see that happen, and therefore things like the sweep in 2000 and the late collapse in 2003 really hurt me, because I had so much hope riding on them.

South Side Irish
02-27-2008, 10:49 PM
Unquestionably, it's A. But then again, as a Sox, Cardinals, Bulls, and Duke fan - I've seen my fair share of championships in just the last 18 years... but it was the White Sox that made the "circle" complete. Even though the Bears are frustrating me, I don't get as pissy as I used to and as I'm a hell of a lot more calm. Especially compared to my Cub-fan friends, who are DYING for something positive!!

:gulp::gulp::gulp:

chisox77
02-27-2008, 11:09 PM
It's A for me as well.

During last year's awful stretches, I was able to watch the White Sox, but with much less frustration.


:cool:

SOXfnNlansing
02-27-2008, 11:15 PM
I am much less worried about the Sox collapsing these days. Whatever happens, I will always be able to say that I saw the White Sox win a World Championship in my lifetime.

Before 2005, it was very plausible that I would never see that happen, and therefore things like the sweep in 2000 and the late collapse in 2003 really hurt me, because I had so much hope riding on them.


That's how I feel also. I knew we were not probably going to win in 93, but 83 and 2000 were big shockers for me. 2005 makes it all good now.

TheOldRoman
02-27-2008, 11:30 PM
I am in a transition period. I will be able to answer this in a few months.

I have been a fan for many years, and I got to the level of obsessed around 2004. 2005 was my team. I followed the entire offseason, and I believed in every move Kenny made. I was very excited about that season. I won't say I knew they would win it all, but I believed they would be very special at a time when not that many others did. That season saw me go from obsessed to fanatical, where I couldn't miss a game. I live and died with every pitch, and we got the best ending ever.

2006 was what I thought was a great offseason, and my expectations were as high as ever. The first half was great, but the second half was terrible. I never accepted losing well, but it got a lot worse. I would become furious. How could a team with so much talent perform so bad? How could they be so gutless and lie down the way they did, after showing so much heart the year before?

2007 started out promising, but turned into a disaster. By July, the season was already shot to hell. I didn't get as mad because it didn't matter anymore. I still watched games, though not all of them. I spent more time with my friends and girlfriend. I still wanted to win them all, but I wasn't as upset as I was the year before.

Last season helped me put it into perspective. Baseball isn't life, it is a game. I went to many games with my season ticket package (which I had to give up this year because we are saving for the house/wedding), and I still had a good time. It was the first time in probably 8 years I had a good time at a game they lost. It was the first time I didn't leave the park grumpy after a loss. Baseball is beautiful, the park is beautiful, and there are few things more special than spending a perfect day at the park with a beautiful girl and your friends.

Hopefully last year taught me a lesson, and I will handle losses better. It is just a game. Then again, it won't be easy saying that after dropping September games to the Royals while in a pennant race. We will see.

Boondock Saint
02-27-2008, 11:46 PM
A little from column A, a little bit more from column B. I am a bit more mellow about a hard fought loss, but I get twice as pissed when I see us blow a game we should win. Now I wear my heart on my sleeve a bit as far as the Sox goes. It can make or break my day (figuratively) depending on how the Sox do.

A good example is in '06 when we were winning against the best teams in the league, but losing games to teams like Tampa and KC, which ended up keeping us out of the playoffs. If we hadn't won in '05, I might have said "Well, there we go again". But since we'd just won, it just made me want to throw my radio through the window.

fusillirob1983
02-28-2008, 12:53 AM
One thing I observed in 2006 and 2007 was the difference in the fan reactions (and myself) towards the team during some of the losing (and winning) stretches...that I didn't see prior to the 2005 season..

Here are some changes I've observed:

(1) Sox fans seem to be more supportive of the team during losing stretches. By this I don't mean that if the Sox lose 90 plus games year after year..we'll pack the place like Cubs fans...but the fans seem more willing to stick with the team now during a losing streak (season) than they did before 2005.

(2) Sox fans seem to have mellowed. My observation is that there is less booing of the players..the fans seem to enjoy the game and the ballpark more (even a loss)..and there is less anger after a loss. Not that there isn't anger now..but prior to 05..fans were really bitter after a loss...Now it's more just disappointment.

(3) Sox fans have lost the chip on their shoulders. Once upon a time..it was Cubs fans that always cheered during a losing effort..always seemed to be more happy at the game, etc. Us Sox fans where the bitter ones..the ones who booed..the ones who boycotted the team, the owner, the ballpark,etc. NOW - Cubs fans are the angry ones..the ones who boo...we seem to be more at the game for the enjoyment of baseball..

Personally, (for me)..it's not that I'm happy now if the Sox lose..BUT..I don't know how to describe it...but I have enjoyed the games more since 2005. I equate it to winning millions of dollars in the lotto once..sure..you want to win again and again..but there's that thing that says Crap..I did win once! it feels pretty good. Just knowing they once won..does make losses more easier...

My question is since 2005 have you

(A) Mellowed...now you're there more for the enjoyment of baseball..sure you get angry when they lose..but not as angry as you used to get...?

or

(B) since they've won and you've tasted victory..you are now harder on the team..losses are more bitter..you don't enjoy the games more etc..

For me it's A..but I don't think anyones responses personally are right or wrong..I'm just curious...

For me it's hidden choice C. I definitely haven't mellowed. I don't enjoy watching losses. There are occasionally losses that I find entertaining, but in the end they just didn't come up with it (such as when the Sox came back in that June 2006 game against Houston but ended up losing) and I still really wanted that win, but I was the same way prior to 2005.

I still get upset at any loss where the team just plays like garbage though. In '07 the bullpen blowing a bunch of games, in 06' Contreras lasting a couple innings and getting shelled by the Royals.

How they play won't affect whether I'll watch them on tv or go to games. It's more a matter of if I have the time.

MarySwiss
02-28-2008, 07:53 AM
I'm both. I don't get as upset when they lose, but before '05, I never really expected them to win it al. Now that they have, I do.

doublem23
02-28-2008, 09:33 AM
Before 2005, it was very plausible that I would never see that happen, and therefore things like the sweep in 2000 and the late collapse in 2003 really hurt me, because I had so much hope riding on them.

I agree. I believed, at 20, that the White Sox would never win the World Series in my lifetime. I have definitely mellowed. I'd like to see them win and win and win, but now it's not quite as "important" as it used to be.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/10/27/PH2005102700059.jpg

Never forget!

Steelrod
02-28-2008, 09:34 AM
I will always have 2005. Something my parents didn't have, as well as any living Cub fan.
Lets me put the whole thing in perspective and enjoy baseball. I hope we get there again, but if we don't, thanks for the ride!

skottyj242
02-28-2008, 10:01 AM
I think that I take losses worse watching them on tv than being at the games. I love just going to games and hanging out with friends and family and my vendors. I run into so many people when I go to games that it's hard to be sad.

rdivaldi
02-28-2008, 10:17 AM
I have a whole lot more patience with the team than I did on February 28th, 2005. I figure this will last perhaps 2 or 3 more years before I start to get frustrated again.

asindc
02-28-2008, 11:06 AM
I am much less worried about the Sox collapsing these days. Whatever happens, I will always be able to say that I saw the White Sox win a World Championship in my lifetime.

Before 2005, it was very plausible that I would never see that happen, and therefore things like the sweep in 2000 and the late collapse in 2003 really hurt me, because I had so much hope riding on them.

Pretty much my sentiments. The playoffs losses and barely missed playoff appearances hurt a whole lot more before 05. I was also beginning to believe I would never see the Sox win it all in my lifetime.

Now, as long as I see sincere effort to win from ownership on down, I'm much more philosophical about it all. I actually enjoy being a fan better now than before, even through last year's unexpected debacle. What seals it for me is that I'm almost certain that I enjoyed seeing the Sox win it all in 05 more than any fan of any other team enjoyed theirs, with the exception of Boston fans of course. Made up for the decades of suffering that came before it.

rdivaldi
02-28-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm almost certain that I enjoyed seeing the Sox win it all in 05 more than any fan of any other team enjoyed theirs, with the exception of Boston fans of course.

I am certain that no single solitary Red Sox fan enjoyed 2004 more than I enjoyed 2005.

C-Dawg
02-28-2008, 12:11 PM
I have been a fan for many years, and I got to the level of obsessed around 2004. 2005 was my team. I followed the entire offseason, and I believed in every move Kenny made. I was very excited about that season.

Call me crazy, but there was definately a vibe (or something) going into that season, and I mean from the very beginning, that we have never seen before or since.

AZChiSoxFan
02-28-2008, 02:00 PM
One thing I observed in 2006 and 2007 was the difference in the fan reactions (and myself) towards the team during some of the losing (and winning) stretches...that I didn't see prior to the 2005 season..

Here are some changes I've observed:

(1) Sox fans seem to be more supportive of the team during losing stretches. By this I don't mean that if the Sox lose 90 plus games year after year..we'll pack the place like Cubs fans...but the fans seem more willing to stick with the team now during a losing streak (season) than they did before 2005.

(2) Sox fans seem to have mellowed. My observation is that there is less booing of the players..the fans seem to enjoy the game and the ballpark more (even a loss)..and there is less anger after a loss. Not that there isn't anger now..but prior to 05..fans were really bitter after a loss...Now it's more just disappointment.

(3) Sox fans have lost the chip on their shoulders. Once upon a time..it was Cubs fans that always cheered during a losing effort..always seemed to be more happy at the game, etc. Us Sox fans where the bitter ones..the ones who booed..the ones who boycotted the team, the owner, the ballpark,etc. NOW - Cubs fans are the angry ones..the ones who boo...we seem to be more at the game for the enjoyment of baseball..

Personally, (for me)..it's not that I'm happy now if the Sox lose..BUT..I don't know how to describe it...but I have enjoyed the games more since 2005. I equate it to winning millions of dollars in the lotto once..sure..you want to win again and again..but there's that thing that says Crap..I did win once! it feels pretty good. Just knowing they once won..does make losses more easier...

My question is since 2005 have you

(A) Mellowed...now you're there more for the enjoyment of baseball..sure you get angry when they lose..but not as angry as you used to get...?

or

(B) since they've won and you've tasted victory..you are now harder on the team..losses are more bitter..you don't enjoy the games more etc..

For me it's A..but I don't think anyones responses personally are right or wrong..I'm just curious...

I pretty much agree with what you wrote. The funny thing is that in 2005 I worked with a die-hard Steelers fan. After the Steelers won the SB that year, he had similar feelings regarding the Steelers in 2006 that I had with the Sox in 2006 (those feelings are basically what you wrote above).

BRDSR
02-28-2008, 02:58 PM
My question is since 2005 have you

(A) Mellowed...now you're there more for the enjoyment of baseball..sure you get angry when they lose..but not as angry as you used to get...?

or

(B) since they've won and you've tasted victory..you are now harder on the team..losses are more bitter..you don't enjoy the games more etc..



I was very much in the Acolumn between October 26th, 2005 and late May 2007. But when the Sox lost 17 of 21 games in May/June of 2007, I very quickly reverted back to B.

And when the Red Sox (an AL team) won the 2007 World Series, the 2005 victory World Champion team became very much a pleasant memory and not so much a current aspect of my fandom.

cards press box
02-28-2008, 03:01 PM
(A) for sure.

BRDSR
02-28-2008, 03:03 PM
Call me crazy, but there was definately a vibe (or something) going into that season, and I mean from the very beginning, that we have never seen before or since.

Maybe it was the fact that we didn't relinquish first place at any point in the regular season or (obviously) post season. Starting when the Sox scored an unearned run off of Sabathia (right? Or did Westbrook start that game?) in the late stages of Opening Day to secure a 1-0 victory, they were the best team around around for 173 games.

If you mean going into the season as like, in spring training, I actually don't agree. I'm always a little optimistic in spring training, but that season didn't feel any different than the previous 88 (or the 12 or so that I had been a Sox fan).

FedEx227
02-28-2008, 03:07 PM
Call me crazy, but there was definately a vibe (or something) going into that season, and I mean from the very beginning, that we have never seen before or since.

Yeah no doubt. I remember going to SoxFest and the vibe was really that this team was something special. You can even look at the prediction threads we had here before the season there was a definite buzz.

ode to veeck
02-28-2008, 03:16 PM
I am two years older and wiser now, but that's about it

North Sox Sider
02-28-2008, 03:19 PM
In 2006: I was definitely (A). I actually thought 2006 was a fun year. There were some great moments but basically I was still basking in the '05 Championship run. I was proud of that '06 team winning 90 games

But

Then 2007 happened and I think I have become (B) now and it is because of the way they played. If they had won between 80 and 90 games and showed some heart and hustle I maybe still be iin (A) mode but '07 was a disaster from the start. I definitely did some booing at certain players last year. Not very proud of it but I felt that the team overall didnt show the fans anything. I put a lot of my salary toward this team and I expect to see good baseball everytime I come out to Comiskey. When I dont they will hear it from me.

The Dude
02-28-2008, 03:22 PM
I think that I take losses worse watching them on tv than being at the games. I love just going to games and hanging out with friends and family and my vendors. I run into so many people when I go to games that it's hard to be sad.

That's because you probably didn't have 12+ beers at home and actually knew the score!:tongue::redneck:tongue:

Just messing with ya. I'll have the Johnson $10 at one of the opening week games. :D:

To the original question, definitely A! But now my anger of losses goes more towards the Bears for not winning a title during my sports lifetime. (I was 3 when they won it)

pdimas
02-28-2008, 03:29 PM
I think that I take losses worse watching them on tv than being at the games. I love just going to games and hanging out with friends and family and my vendors. I run into so many people when I go to games that it's hard to be sad.

For the most part I agree with you. But last year there were some games where I was just so frustrated with the team that I left before the game was over and as angry as I was my dad was more so. So it was probably to the benefit of his health that we left early. One of those games was one of the pastings Boston gave us. Playing so ****ty coupled with obnoxious Boston fans was just too much to bear.

Some may ask why I would ever leave early but I tell yeah when you attend 60 plus games a year and your team is playing horse**** lousy you are not less of a fan for leaving early...

oeo
02-28-2008, 03:30 PM
Yep, I was shocked by how little booing there was last year. Since 2005, I've been saying Sox fans could stand to go a little in the direction of supporting our team come what may. Cynical reverse snobs that many of us are, it's healthy to tone down the win-or-die mentality a notch or two.

I've never thought of Sox fans being a big 'booing' fan base. It doesn't accomplish anything; if anything, it will make the situation worse.

You boo the opponent, not your team.

pdimas
02-28-2008, 03:48 PM
I do remember our bullpen being booed quite a bit last year. Maybe its because I sit in the outfield where the "obnoxious fans" sit :tongue:

LITTLE NELL
02-28-2008, 05:03 PM
No, I still love the White Sox(live and die with every game)and still hate the Flubs and the Red Sox.

rdivaldi
02-28-2008, 05:37 PM
I have a whole lot more patience with the team than I did on February 28th, 2005. I figure this will last perhaps 2 or 3 more years before I start to get frustrated again.

However to add one more tidbit, there's quite a bit more fire in my belly than last year. The 90 losses left an awful taste in my mouth. Just watching the box score today, I really find myself wanting the Sox to run up the score on the Rockies as a little payback from last years' disastrous spring. I have a feeling that when we play the Cubs and Red Sox I'm going to be a little more passionate. Those series were absolutely embarrassing last year. :angry: