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View Full Version : Cubs were ready to deal for Swisher


CHIsoxNation
02-18-2008, 04:50 PM
After trading Jones to Detroit and declining Floyd's 2008 option, the Cubs were intent on finding an athletic, lefty-hitting right fielder with plate discipline and extra-base pop. Hendry was prepared to assemble a package of young players to pursue a trade for Oakland's Nick Swisher (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7435) if necessary. But when the Cubs beat out Texas, the White Sox, San Francisco and San Diego for Fukudome, Hendry had his man.http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3251266

My bad...this probably should have been in "What's The Score"

cards press box
02-18-2008, 11:29 PM
I have not seen Fukodome play but I have a feeling that the White Sox are fortunate that they acquired Nick Swisher as opposed to Fukodome. Swisher: (a) is 3 years younger, (b) has already played three years in the majors, (c) will not have to make the adjustment to the MLB that Fukodome presumably will need to make, (d) has greater power potential than Fukodome and (e) is signed for 5 years at a price that will give the White Sox flexibility to make other moves. In addition, Swisher will be a breath of fresh air for the franchise and the fan base.

I like the Sox roster now and if Kenny Williams makes another move or two, it should only get better.

SoxNation05
02-18-2008, 11:41 PM
Wow Swish was a perfect fit for the Flubs.

Optipessimism
02-19-2008, 03:22 AM
Wow Swish was a perfect fit for the Flubs.

No he's not. He may be lovable, but he's not a loser.

BTW, Fukudome looks like he's going to either 1) further raise the bar for mediocrity or 2) come out as a terrible deal all around. He sounds like another Iguchi with more speed and better OBP, but he doesn't look like he's going to put up the power numbers you'd like out of a typical corner OF. I bet it turns out that Jose Guillen, issues aside, turns out to be a bargain for the Royals and a better, cheaper player than Fukudome.

Anyway I'm glad we have Swisher instead. I just wish we had a deeper farm and a better 3-5 in our rotation to make the losses of Gio and DLS hurt less.

SoxNation05
02-19-2008, 07:44 AM
No he's not. He may be lovable, but he's not a loser.

BTW, Fukudome looks like he's going to either 1) further raise the bar for mediocrity or 2) come out as a terrible deal all around. He sounds like another Iguchi with more speed and better OBP, but he doesn't look like he's going to put up the power numbers you'd like out of a typical corner OF. I bet it turns out that Jose Guillen, issues aside, turns out to be a bargain for the Royals and a better, cheaper player than Fukudome.

Anyway I'm glad we have Swisher instead. I just wish we had a deeper farm and a better 3-5 in our rotation to make the losses of Gio and DLS hurt less.
I am not talking about the players personalilty. They were looking for a corner outfielder with power who could hit in the five hole and spilt up all their righties.

munchman33
02-19-2008, 08:21 AM
BTW, Fukudome looks like he's going to either 1) further raise the bar for mediocrity or 2) come out as a terrible deal all around.

That or he could contend for an MVP.

Seriously, it's time to stop doubting Japanese talent. This guy put up all around numbers better than Iguchi did. He's a complete player.

oeo
02-19-2008, 09:21 AM
Seriously, it's time to stop doubting Japanese talent. This guy put up all around numbers better than Iguchi did. He's a complete player.

I'm not sure why you're comparing him to Iguchi, but Iguchi was a complete player in Japan. He could hit for power, he was an OBP machine, and actually showed that he could steal bases (unlike this ability that has never been shown by Fukudome)...not to mention his doubles. Also, is Fukudome a health risk? He's only had one complete season over the last 3 years.

It's not about doubting Japanese talent, it's that it is proven that their numbers fall off a great deal when coming over to the US. I think if the guy was going to be an MVP candidate, he would have been hyped up quite a bit more, and would definitely have raked in more money than he did.

PalehosePlanet
02-19-2008, 10:44 AM
That or he could contend for an MVP.

Seriously, it's time to stop doubting Japanese talent. This guy put up all around numbers better than Iguchi did. He's a complete player.

Akinori Iwamura signed for 3/7.5 before the '07 season with Tampa. Most experts compare him to Fukodome. Iwamura's OBP was .359 last year (down from over .400 in Japan) and his power numbers were nearly non existant at 7 hr, 34 rbi. It's safe to say Fukudome's numbers will take a huge hit overall.

I think Hendry saved KW from himself here.

RowanDye
02-19-2008, 11:17 AM
I am not talking about the players personalilty. They were looking for a corner outfielder with power who could hit in the five hole and spilt up all their righties.

I agree. Swisher was a better fit for the Cubs than the Sox.

Swisher makes the White Sox better, but it doesn't change the fact that the Sox have four corner outfielders and zero true centerfielders.

I am way more concerned about the back end of the starting rotation, but defense is a big concern for me as well.

Assuming Crede is gone, the Sox will have below average defense at C, 3B, RF, and CF. This will be offset some with a potentially strong doubleplay combination of Cabrera + Richar/Uribe/or Ramirez.

A.J.'s biggest weakness is throwing out baserunners, which I can normally live with. However, adding that to a weak defensive CF leaves the Sox vulnerable up the middle, supposedly a key to success.

Stoky44
02-19-2008, 01:22 PM
Assuming Crede is gone, the Sox will have below average defense at C, 3B, RF, and CF. This will be offset some with a potentially strong doubleplay combination of Cabrera + Richar/Uribe/or Ramirez.

A.J.'s biggest weakness is throwing out baserunners, which I can normally live with. However, adding that to a weak defensive CF leaves the Sox vulnerable up the middle, supposedly a key to success.


Fields is an average defensive 3b, he gets a bad rep b/c we saw the best 3b in the league for many yrs. JD has lost some ability in rf, but he was very good, now perob still average, not below. I am up in the air about AJ, I still think he is about average, I am not sure that AJ is in the bottom 10 catchers in the league, which is what below average is.
I will give you CF, we will be below avg there.

eriqjaffe
02-19-2008, 01:30 PM
Fields is an average defensive 3b, he gets a bad rep b/c we saw the best 3b in the league for many yrs.Every time we played Oakland, you mean.

munchman33
02-19-2008, 01:35 PM
Fields is an average defensive 3b, he gets a bad rep b/c we saw the best 3b in the league for many yrs. JD has lost some ability in rf, but he was very good, now perob still average, not below. I am up in the air about AJ, I still think he is about average, I am not sure that AJ is in the bottom 10 catchers in the league, which is what below average is.
I will give you CF, we will be below avg there.

If you believe those statistical range factors, Jermaine is the worst defensive RF in the league two years running.

bryPt
02-19-2008, 01:52 PM
So wait a second though, the beat down Rogers gives KW on a daily basis for trading away the future to get Swisher would have been directed at the North Side if they got him instead?

cheezheadsoxfan
02-19-2008, 02:10 PM
So wait a second though, the beat down Rogers gives KW on a daily basis for trading away the future to get Swisher would have been directed at the North Side if they got him instead?

Au contraire, it would have been a brilliant move.:rolleyes:

munchman33
02-19-2008, 02:17 PM
Au contraire, it would have been a brilliant move.:rolleyes:

Probably, considering they're dealing from a position of strength. They're minors can take losing some good prospects.

PatK
02-19-2008, 02:44 PM
Didn't Fukudome also have surgery to his throwing arm?

Foulke You
02-19-2008, 04:03 PM
That or he could contend for an MVP.

Seriously, it's time to stop doubting Japanese talent. This guy put up all around numbers better than Iguchi did. He's a complete player.
Japanese players can be hit or miss. For every Hideki Matsui or Ichiro there is a Kaz Matsui or Iwamura. Somtimes they fall in the middle like Tadahito Iguchi and Shinjo. I tend to think Fukudome will be a nice player with some decent offensive production but I feel that he won't be worth his huge price tag.

I'm much more comfortable having a proven AL talent like Swisher in our lineup and I agree with PaleHosePlanet, I think Hendry saved KW a lot of headache by forcing his hand on the Swisher trade.

I_Liked_Manuel
02-19-2008, 04:04 PM
Fields is an average defensive 3b, he gets a bad rep b/c we saw the best 3b in the league for many yrs. JD has lost some ability in rf, but he was very good, now perob still average, not below. I am up in the air about AJ, I still think he is about average, I am not sure that AJ is in the bottom 10 catchers in the league, which is what below average is.
I will give you CF, we will be below avg there.

i'm not sure that i agree with you here- fields is hardly an average third baseman. he makes easy plays look difficult at times. crede was well above average defensively, but he's not the one out there that's bobbling balls or diving because he reacted poorly

SoxNation05
02-19-2008, 04:19 PM
Japanese players can be hit or miss. For every Hideki Matsui or Ichiro there is a Kaz Matsui or Iwamura. Somtimes they fall in the middle like Tadahito Iguchi and Shinjo. I tend to think Fukudome will be a nice player with some decent offensive production but I feel that he won't be worth his huge price tag.

I'm much more comfortable having a proven AL talent like Swisher in our lineup and I agree with PaleHosePlanet, I think Hendry saved KW a lot of headache by forcing his hand on the Swisher trade.
Kaz Matsui has had a better career than Iguchi and Iwamura has played less than one season and hit over .300. Shingo was one and done.

WhiteSox5187
02-19-2008, 04:52 PM
On the Fukodome arguement, I think he'll be a solid Iguchi like player...the question for me is his arm, Iguchi if I recall correctly used to be a shortstop in Japan and had surgery on his elbow and lost alot of strength that way, so Fukodome might not have much of an arm in RF.

As for Swisher, I'm not terribly worried about him CF, I don't think he'll be like Mack or Jerry Owens even, he might be like Rowand. Rowand was orginally brought up to be a corner OF and made a pretty good adjustment. It certainly looked like Dye lost a step in RF last year, but his knees were shot in the first half, he still has a bit of mobility and a good arm, so I'm not worried about him. Left is a huge question mark. If Quentin is 100% healthy, we'll be fine. If not, I don't know. Plan B is Jerry Owens, he can't be any worse than Pods defensively.

In the IF, Richar is still a question mark and I agree, Fields is not a great defensive third baseman, that's why I'd rather have a healthy Crede at third this year and in the future and trade Fields...but that's just me...AJ is solid behind the plate (his arm leaves a bit to be desired, but as long as we have guys who are quick on the mound like Buerhle, we should be OK)...Caberera at short is solid, as is Paulie at first. Still leaves big question marks in the rotation, but those will be answered later.

oeo
02-19-2008, 05:21 PM
I'm much more comfortable having a proven AL talent like Swisher in our lineup and I agree with PaleHosePlanet, I think Hendry saved KW a lot of headache by forcing his hand on the Swisher trade.

Hendry really had nothing to do with it. The Sox offered Fukudome the same amount as the Cubs, but he chose to play for the Cubs.

So add stupid to the list of problems with that guy. :redneck

Thanks to his stupidity, though, we do have Swisher.

HaroMaster87
02-20-2008, 01:38 AM
I am VERY happy we have Swisher as opposed to Fukodome...Swisher is PROVEN MLB talent, Fukodome, is not...end of discussion. Anything else is just speculation at this point.
As far as the Crede speculation goes, I agree with something I heard Brian Hanley say a few weeks ago. Why not just keep Joe this year, let Fields be insurance and get more defensive seasoning in AAA, let Crede walk at the end of the year, take the draft pick(s?) at the end of the year, and give the job to fields next year. The way Kenny has tried to load up and improve at every position of weakness, why do we want rookies at so many positions? (2nd, 3rd, right, 4th and 5th starters) I do think Fields, when all is said and done, is going to put up better numbers over his career offensively than Crede. But since we're still "going for it" this year - Crede HAS to be the guy...

btrain929
02-26-2008, 11:15 AM
Probably, considering they're dealing from a position of strength. They're minors can take losing some good prospects.

Bull****.

munchman33
02-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Bull****.

You're right, they're barren. :scratch: