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View Full Version : Penn Study: Jeter Worst SS


MDF3530
02-18-2008, 02:28 PM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02172008/news/nationalnews/youve_got_to_be_kidding__98050.htm?page=0

We need an Ivy Leaguer to tell us this :?: ?

captainclutch24
02-18-2008, 02:34 PM
:uribe:
"Damn right I'm better than Jeter."


I love the kid who says Jeter is way better than AROD because Arod is only out for the money. Jeter makes bank, and Jeter can't make a pimple on Arods ass at short.

cws05champ
02-18-2008, 02:44 PM
Yes....but he smells terrific!!

DoItForDanPasqua
02-18-2008, 02:50 PM
http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-gaming/article/2008-02/statheads-speak-derek-jeter-you-stink

Here's a similar article that claims that the difference between having the best or worst fielding first baseman only means a difference of seven run per season. This is striking considering the first baseman is involved in the vast majority of ground ball outs.

JermaineDye05
02-18-2008, 03:05 PM
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_462413.jpg

"Not if I have anything to say about that."

turners56
02-18-2008, 03:12 PM
:uribe:
"Damn right I'm better than Jeter."


I love the kid who says Jeter is way better than AROD because Arod is only out for the money. Jeter makes bank, and Jeter can't make a pimple on Arods ass at short.

xD. Fielding wise, Juan is better than Jeter...when he tries.

areilly
02-18-2008, 03:16 PM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02172008/news/nationalnews/youve_got_to_be_kidding__98050.htm?page=0

We need an Ivy Leaguer to tell us this :?: ?

I would imagine his fielding skills are not the entire reason the Yankees keep Jeter around.

NardiWasHere
02-18-2008, 06:04 PM
This is dumb.

Garland_IS_God
02-18-2008, 07:28 PM
Whats with all the Derek Jeter hate? Man the guy has been a great player for 10+ years and he's been a class act to. Give me Derek Jeter on my team anyday of the week and I'll be a happy camper.

oeo
02-18-2008, 07:33 PM
Whats with all the Derek Jeter hate? Man the guy has been a great player for 10+ years and he's been a class act to. Give me Derek Jeter on my team anyday of the week and I'll be a happy camper.

I don't think anyone doubts that he's a very, very good hitter (and a clutch one at that), but the man is not an all-around SS like those Gold Gloves seem to tell you. He should not have any Gold Gloves...he doesn't deserve any of them.

Oblong
02-18-2008, 07:58 PM
It really should be common knowledge that Jeter's the worst fielding SS in the majors. Nearly every system out there puts him in the bottom. His gold gloves, like so many others who have them, are what makes the award a joke. How can managers vote on a guy they see a handful of times a year? Defense is not something you can measure casually via the naked eye. You either have to specifically study the player or look at their numbers. I would hope that managers are not spending their timei n the dugout worrying about what kind of jumps or release points the fielders are making.

and his Clutch is somewhat of an urban legend.

doublem23
02-18-2008, 09:07 PM
Defense is not something you can quantify... No matter what, you're still ultimately making a judgment call. Zone Rating or whatever system these guys have developed is probably a better system than the standard system of errors, assists, and put outs, but the fact is you're still judging players based on arbitrary boundaries that have no actual meaning to the game as its being played on the field.

oeo
02-18-2008, 10:16 PM
It really should be common knowledge that Jeter's the worst fielding SS in the majors.

At least now that Carlos Guillen is no longer butchering the position.

cws05champ
02-18-2008, 10:31 PM
Defense is not something you can quantify... No matter what, you're still ultimately making a judgment call. Zone Rating or whatever system these guys have developed is probably a better system than the standard system of errors, assists, and put outs, but the fact is you're still judging players based on arbitrary boundaries that have no actual meaning to the game as its being played on the field.
Not yet anyways. I was listening to Baseball this morning on XM and they were talking with some statiticians that were saying they are working to use GPS to track players location and movement on balls in play to better quantify defensive range/ability. Now this is not completle ready yet, but they said, don't be surprised if this data would be available in the next 5-7 years.

Oblong
02-18-2008, 10:45 PM
Guillen was statistically average for most of his career at SS. In 2007 he finally went south.

but the fact is you're still judging players based on arbitrary boundaries that have no actual meaning to the game as its being played on the field.

What makes fielding stats harder to analyze is that it takes a lot of data to get anything meaningful. Even a season's worth isn't enough. You have to factor in the types of pitchers on the staff, whether there's runners on base, the field condition, etc. Having access to play by play data via retrosheet.org is allowing a lot of breakthroughs in looking at defense.

Madscout
02-19-2008, 05:24 PM
I don't think anyone doubts that he's a very, very good hitter (and a clutch one at that), but the man is not an all-around SS like those Gold Gloves seem to tell you. He should not have any Gold Gloves...he doesn't deserve any of them.

It should be common knowlege that it is the opinion of the MLB that whoever wins a gold glove must also hit .290s.

steely712
02-19-2008, 06:57 PM
I will gladly start the worst ss in the league on my team any day of the week, especially in the playoffs. What a joke!

mjmcend
02-19-2008, 07:01 PM
I will gladly start the worst ss in the league on my team any day of the week, especially in the playoffs. What a joke!

Did you even read the article? It is focusing solely on defense. It had no stance on his offensive abilities, his clutchiness, or his overall worth as a player.

fquaye149
02-19-2008, 07:10 PM
I will gladly start the worst ss in the league on my team any day of the week, especially in the playoffs. What a joke!

this study's claiming he's the worst DEFENSIVELY.:rolleyes:

whitesoxSS05
02-20-2008, 02:18 AM
this study's claiming he's the worst DEFENSIVELY.:rolleyes:

Yep, this article is ridiculous. It has quotes from people that don't have anything to do with his defense.

bmac5001
02-20-2008, 02:57 AM
Yep, this article is ridiculous. It has quotes from people that don't have anything to do with his defense.

That's because that is how Yankees fans defend criticism of Jeter's defense, by ignoring criticisms of his defense. Frankly I think that's the only possible way to defend criticism of his defense.

He also isn't as "clutch" as everyone is led to believe.

IlliniSox4Life
02-20-2008, 04:19 AM
That was one of the worst articles I've ever read.

I don't know how NY fans can think that Jeter is a better SS than ARod. I also like the quotes about how Jeter is the better teammate/person, when it was ARod who offered to move from SS to third to not disrupt any chemistry. You have one of the greatest players of all time, if not the greatest, offering to change positions, and somehow he is magically a bad teammate. He might not be one of the "boys", but he isn't exactly clubhouse cancer.

Frontman
02-20-2008, 08:18 AM
He might be overrated, but I hardly think he's the worst.

FedEx227
02-20-2008, 10:57 AM
He might be overrated, but I hardly think he's the worst.

Hanley Ramirez takes that award, hands down.

hi im skot
02-20-2008, 11:16 AM
Fire Joe Morgan (http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/02/this-is-what-were-up-against.html) has a great breakdown of the article.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-21-2008, 02:32 AM
uribe for jeter
kw, come on man! get off your ass!
uribe's unreal defensive abilities compared to jeter's evens out jeter's unreal/clutch hitting abilities compared to uribe's.