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MCHSoxFan
02-16-2008, 08:25 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080216&content_id=2376058&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I still think he will be traded if SF likes what they see.

areilly
02-16-2008, 09:01 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080216&content_id=2376058&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I still think he will be traded if SF likes what they see.

1) Fluff pieces like this are why I never read whitesox.com

2) This is really not that encouraging:

"Somewhat lost in Saturday's contractual quagmire was Crede's progress in regard to his back. Crede has been in Phoenix since Jan. 15, working with Brett Fisher of Fisher Sports Physical Therapy and Conditioning. He has been hitting since October in his home batting cage, throwing and taking ground balls, trying to ease his way back into action.

Running has been limited to treadmills, but Crede remains optimistic that he can be thrown into action and produce solid results."

Grzegorz
02-16-2008, 09:15 PM
"Running has been limited to treadmills" and this fact is worrisome why?

The Immigrant
02-16-2008, 10:35 PM
"Running has been limited to treadmills" and this fact is worrisome why?

Because Crede is nothing without his blazing speed. :wink:

itsnotrequired
02-17-2008, 12:02 AM
"Running has been limited to treadmills" and this fact is worrisome why?

As long as he can bring the treadmill with him on the filed, this is encouraging news.

:D:

Sockinchisox
02-17-2008, 12:43 AM
Meanwhile Danks looks like he spent the offseason in a forest, lumberjacking.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2008-02/35722581.jpg
(Photo credit to the chicagosports.com).

LITTLE NELL
02-17-2008, 05:37 AM
Credes comments on Saturday really dissapointed me, he sounded like a real jerk. Trade him and his ******* agent to Tampa Bay.

SoxNation05
02-17-2008, 11:37 AM
I know Crede to SF is a given because of the fit that is involved there. I wouldn't mind bringing in some pitching but all of Kenny's moves have been "under the radar". Swisher, Quentin, Dotel, Alexei Rameriez etc. All of those moves have came from nowhere and the moves that failed to happen Hunter, Fukudome and Rowand were all over our site and other media sites like ESPN and CBS Sportsline. I'm not ruling this deal out but for some reason I don't see Kenny making this move. I also think if the speculation of a deal, Lowry for Crede is real some other GM will step in and offer them a better deal. I think Crede is a better player than Lowry injuries aside but I think someone will need a SP come the end of ST and a deal like Crede for Lowry would be overpowered by a stronger deal.

jabrch
02-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Meanwhile Danks looks like he spent the offseason in a forest, lumberjacking.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2008-02/35722581.jpg
(Photo credit to the chicagosports.com).


he looks a bit like Buehrle...(wouldn't that be nice....)

BRDSR
02-17-2008, 12:04 PM
Meanwhile Danks looks like he spent the offseason in a forest, lumberjacking.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2008-02/35722581.jpg
(Photo credit to the chicagosports.com).

Still photos of pitchers like this make me wonder how any human body can sustain it for 20-30 years (if you include everything from little league on). There's so much torque going on with his left arm/shoulder I can't believe it doesn't come off everytime he follows through.

I was a pitcher in high school, and once saw a similar picture of myself. It really looked unnatural.

Metalthrasher442
02-17-2008, 03:23 PM
I hate to see him go..but I'm anxious to see what we can get for him..and what my beloved Josh Fields can do with a full year;)

DickAllen72
02-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Credes comments on Saturday really dissapointed me, he sounded like a real jerk. Trade him and his ******* agent to Tamba Bay.
The way it was reported he sure comes off like a jerk. However, I guess it's possible that Crede is trying to send a signal to KW that he will consider signing a multi-year extension if one is offered. Maybe it's Boras who is gumming up the works.

If Crede is playing games, let the door hit him on his way out. But if he's willing to sign an extension, it opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities for KW and the Sox.

LITTLE NELL
02-17-2008, 07:49 PM
The way it was reported he sure comes off like a jerk. However, I guess it's possible that Crede is trying to send a signal to KW that he will consider signing a multi-year extension if one is offered. Maybe it's Boras who is gumming up the works.

If Crede is playing games, let the door hit him on his way out. But if he's willing to sign an extension, it opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities for KW and the Sox.
If they do sign Crede to an extension what happens to Fields. Maybe trade Paulie and put Fields at 1st?

SoxNation05
02-17-2008, 07:51 PM
The way it was reported he sure comes off like a jerk. However, I guess it's possible that Crede is trying to send a signal to KW that he will consider signing a multi-year extension if one is offered. Maybe it's Boras who is gumming up the works.

If Crede is playing games, let the door hit him on his way out. But if he's willing to sign an extension, it opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities for KW and the Sox.
I am just talking out of my *** but in the NBA they do sign and trades all the time. I'm sure that might scare off some teams because if he gets injured again they are stuck with him even longer. But say at the end of ST the Sox sign Crede 4 yrs 28 mil or so. Then they keep him to the end of April and maybe they can get more value for him. I don't want Fields to have a sophmore slump so maybe having him start off in triple A would not be bad for his confidence. If anybody knows any restrictions on "Sign and Trades" please tell me.

The Immigrant
02-17-2008, 08:21 PM
If anybody knows any restrictions on "Sign and Trades" please tell me.

In MLB, you can't trade a player during the first year of a multi-year contract.

cards press box
02-18-2008, 01:52 AM
On tonight's CLTV Sports Page, Kenny McReynolds and Lester Munson both opined that: (1) the Sox would keep Joe Crede at the beginning of the '08 campaign because his trade value is not currently where it may be later in the season, (2) the Sox would initially send Josh Fields to Charlotte and (3) as Crede shows that he has recovered from his injury, the Sox would deal him mid-season and then call up Fields. I find this analysis pretty interesting. Any thoughts?

I want Mags back
02-18-2008, 07:31 AM
i thought they canceled Sports PAge a while back:?:

hi im skot
02-18-2008, 10:04 AM
There's no way Josh Fields starts the season in Charlotte.

Carolina Kenny
02-18-2008, 10:17 AM
There's no way Josh Fields starts the season in Charlotte.

Why not? Perhaps Josh could "influence" the clubhouse in a positive way in Charlotte. I am sure his "message" would be well recieved down there.

oeo
02-18-2008, 10:19 AM
Why not? Perhaps Josh could "influence" the clubhouse in a positive way in Charlotte. I am sure his "message" would be well recieved down there.

We've got a jester, people.

voodoochile
02-18-2008, 10:20 AM
I don't see this because if Crede does get off to a hot start and the team does too, you risk too much by trading him and bringing up Fields. Consistency matters over the course of a season as does player attitude. Don't want to distract from the task at hand by getting the rest of the team talking about "what really matters" to the management team.

I think it's too big of a risk too take. If you make the decision to keep Joe Crede and start Fields in AAA then you are also making the decision to possibly keep Crede all year and let him go for nothing if he gets hot and so does the team.

Not that I would object to the team and Joe getting hot, but it complicates the trade picture, IMO.

I mean, honestly, if the team is hot and Crede is playing like he did a few years ago and the Sox then trade him and Fields comes up and struggles while reacquainting himself with MLB pitching and during that time the team struggles too, it could get really ugly and might be a breaking point in the season.

RockyMtnSoxFan
02-18-2008, 10:23 AM
I don't understand all the eagerness to replace Crede with Fields. I mean, everybody's belief seems to be that the Sox will contend this year, and KW seems to think that too. But Fields is not as good as a healthy Crede (at least not yet). If Crede can prove he's healthy, the Sox are a better team when he's playing third instead of Fields.

It's very strange to me because a lot of people on this board have stated that it's better to have proven talent than potential talent (i.e., trade prospects for veterans). But Crede is the proven talent, while Fields still has a way to go and might never be as good as Crede.

mcfish
02-18-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't understand all the eagerness to replace Crede with Fields. I mean, everybody's belief seems to be that the Sox will contend this year, and KW seems to think that too. But Fields is not as good as a healthy Crede (at least not yet). If Crede can prove he's healthy, the Sox are a better team when he's playing third instead of Fields.

It's very strange to me because a lot of people on this board have stated that it's better to have proven talent than potential talent (i.e., trade prospects for veterans). But Crede is the proven talent, while Fields still has a way to go and might never be as good as Crede.Defensively maybe. Fields is already just about at Crede's level offensively and has the potential to surpass that (and then some hopefully).

And it's not that people don't want Crede -
we do want to get something for a guy that seems to have no intention of being here next year
we do want to give our one and only young position player a chance to show what he can do
we do recognize that with the current market it would be impossible to create a team full of free agents so some home grown talent has to work out somewhere at some point - might as well be Fields.
Fields is also slightly further along in the prospect process than any of the guys we traded away.

chisoxmike
02-18-2008, 10:41 AM
Lester Munsen is usually wrong about everything. Whenever he says something on Sports Night or Comcast SportsNet, the opposite usually happens.
A few years ago he claimed that "it was only a matter of time, and in a few days Barry Bonds will be arrested." Three years later he was still playing baseball.
I remember him on Sports Page in 2004 saying the Cubs had the greatest pitching staff ever put together and it was a shoe-in to win the World Series. "Its going to be great!"

voodoochile
02-18-2008, 10:42 AM
I don't understand all the eagerness to replace Crede with Fields. I mean, everybody's belief seems to be that the Sox will contend this year, and KW seems to think that too. But Fields is not as good as a healthy Crede (at least not yet). If Crede can prove he's healthy, the Sox are a better team when he's playing third instead of Fields.

It's very strange to me because a lot of people on this board have stated that it's better to have proven talent than potential talent (i.e., trade prospects for veterans). But Crede is the proven talent, while Fields still has a way to go and might never be as good as Crede.

It's a tough situation. Crede is PROBABLY better IF healthy. However, that's a big IF long term.

Fields has certainly earned a shot at the big league level.

If you start Crede and he tears it up and the Sox go on a tear, it's not a good idea to trade him. Then you lose him for nothing at the end of the year.

If you start Crede and he sucks it up or reinjures himself or injures something else, he cannot be traded or his trade value becomes greatly diminished over the potential it has now.

I think most people (I know this is true for me) feel it's better to take the potentially small risk on Fields and trade Crede while he has a guarantee of bringing back a solid return than to risk the alternatives. With Fields ready to go, Crede is gone next off season regardless. Take what you can get and move on.

hi im skot
02-18-2008, 10:51 AM
Why not? Perhaps Josh could "influence" the clubhouse in a positive way in Charlotte. I am sure his "message" would be well recieved down there.

:rolleyes:

Carolina Kenny
02-18-2008, 10:58 AM
We've got a jester, people.

I'm not trying to bash Josh. Its just that when Hawk talks about the Harmon Killebrew similarites, its alittle premature.

No one knows yet if Josh is boom or bust. Although Joe has had his own offensive struggles thru the years, he has had a great knack for coming thru in the clutch.

Will the pitchers catch up to Josh this year? Unfortunately, the odds are they will.

RockyMtnSoxFan
02-18-2008, 11:22 AM
Defensively maybe. Fields is already just about at Crede's level offensively and has the potential to surpass that (and then some hopefully).

And it's not that people don't want Crede -
we do want to get something for a guy that seems to have no intention of being here next year
we do want to give our one and only young position player a chance to show what he can do
we do recognize that with the current market it would be impossible to create a team full of free agents so some home grown talent has to work out somewhere at some point - might as well be Fields.
Fields is also slightly further along in the prospect process than any of the guys we traded away.

I don't think Fields is as good as Crede offensively. Unless by offense you mean home runs, and nothing else. Fields had a .244 average and 125 K last year. If Joe is healthy (I agree, a big if), he will probably put up much better numbers in these two categories. Plus, in terms of power they are not that different. Fields hit 23 last year, while Crede hit 30 in '06, which was the last year he was healthy. Defensively . . . well, we all know what Joe can do.

It seems to me that people are hyping Fields a little too much because he's the best prospect we've had in several years. I just think that, if the Sox really are going to try to compete now rather than rebuild, they are more competitive with Crede.

EMachine10
02-18-2008, 11:28 AM
I don't think Fields is as good as Crede offensively. Unless by offense you mean home runs, and nothing else. Fields had a .244 average and 125 K last year. If Joe is healthy (I agree, a big if), he will probably put up much better numbers in these two categories. Plus, in terms of power they are not that different. Fields hit 23 last year, while Crede hit 30 in '06, which was the last year he was healthy. Defensively . . . well, we all know what Joe can do.

It seems to me that people are hyping Fields a little too much because he's the best prospect we've had in several years. I just think that, if the Sox really are going to try to compete now rather than rebuild, they are more competitive with Crede.

Crede wasn't all that his rookie year, or his first couple, for that matter, either.

russ99
02-18-2008, 11:39 AM
It's all a huge crapshoot to pick one or the other right now. Both Crede and Fields are solid options to play 3B for the Sox this year.

We'll see soon enough in the next week or two when Joe has to run normally (off the treadmill), make defensive plants/pivots and swing at baseballs while facing real pitchers.

If he truly is 100% healthy, the Sox might just keep him until the trade deadline but then there's a risk that they'd get nothing for him if he re-injures his back during the season.

sox1970
02-18-2008, 11:47 AM
The Sox one off day during spring training is March 13. I believe Crede will be traded on or before that date.

As long as he and Fields are both healthy, no way Crede is on the Sox opening day.

Rocky Soprano
02-18-2008, 11:51 AM
The Sox one off day during spring training is March 13. I believe Crede will be traded on or before that date.

As long as he and Fields are both healthy, no way Crede is on the Sox opening day.

A healthy Crede > a healthy Fields

sox1970
02-18-2008, 11:54 AM
A healthy Crede > a healthy Fields

Free agent after 2008. Scott Boras. Fields has 40 homer/ 100 RBI potential.

Trade Crede.

Rocky Soprano
02-18-2008, 11:57 AM
Free agent after 2008. Scott Boras. Fields has 40 homer/ 100 RBI potential.

Trade Crede.

Yeah we should bank on "potential."
That will get us far!

You should take over the team.

If the Sox had as much faith as you do on Fields then this whole 3B issue would of been resolved a long time ago.

And if other teams would have as much faith on Fields then we probably could of ended up with Miguel Cabrera.

jcw218
02-18-2008, 12:03 PM
My .02 on the matter. Kenny has stated that Joe Crede and Josh Fields will not be on the same team next year. To me that implies that one of three things will happen -

1) Joe gets traded before the end of spring training after demonstrating that he is currently healthy.

2) Fields gets traded because the Sox like how Joe is doing and feel that with Joe they have the best shot at winning. But by trading Fields, there is potentially a big hole to fill at 3rd in 2009.

3) Fields starts the year in AAA as insurance for Crede who the Sox feel gives them the best shot to win.

In all likeliness, I believe that option 1 is what will happen, followed by option 3 then option 2.

mcfish
02-18-2008, 12:10 PM
I don't think Fields is as good as Crede offensively. Unless by offense you mean home runs, and nothing else. Fields had a .244 average and 125 K last year. If Joe is healthy (I agree, a big if), he will probably put up much better numbers in these two categories. Plus, in terms of power they are not that different. Fields hit 23 last year, while Crede hit 30 in '06, which was the last year he was healthy. Defensively . . . well, we all know what Joe can do.

It seems to me that people are hyping Fields a little too much because he's the best prospect we've had in several years. I just think that, if the Sox really are going to try to compete now rather than rebuild, they are more competitive with Crede.
Crede hit .261 in his first full year (3rd year on the team), with a .308 OBP. He followed that up with a .239/.299 and a .252/.303.

Fields hit .244 with the same .308 OBP last year.

Crede's first few years were on a potent offense where he hit at the bottom of the order. Fields hit second on a very crappy offense most of the year last year.

They're very comparable, and Fields has more opportunity to improve. I personally think that Crede's career year of hitting .283 with 30 HR's is the peak of his ability, whereas we don't know where exactly Field's ceiling will be.

mcfish
02-18-2008, 12:12 PM
A healthy Crede > a healthy FieldsThere is no guarantee that there will ever be a full season of healthy Crede again.

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:14 PM
Yeah we should bank on "potential."
That will get us far!

You should take over the team.

If the Sox had as much faith as you do on Fields then this whole 3B issue would of been resolved a long time ago.

And if other teams would have as much faith on Fields then we probably could of ended up with Miguel Cabrera.
Wow that was just a stupid comment about Cabrera. The Tigers had to give away possibly the top center field prospect in all of baseball, A young pitcher who has shown greatness in the majors and they sent away 4 other top/mid class prospects....There is absolutely no chance the Sox could of matched that even including Fields.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2008, 12:15 PM
Rocky:

It's not a matter of "faith." It's the fact that the Sox have ZERO choice in the matter. Joe's agent has already told Kenny point blank he's headed to free agency.

Do you want a repeat of the Magglio situation? A very good player walks and the Sox get squat?

It's trade him or lose him...put in those terms what would you want? Again a deal IS NOT going to happen, no matter how much you, I and Sox fans want it to. Joe's agent has said no extension.

Lip

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:17 PM
There is no guarantee that there will ever be a full season of healthy Crede again.
Totally agree, So many people are expecting him to be back to his self but he has missed 8 months of baseball and had back surgery. Plus Fields didn't even play a full year last year and he only had like 6 less homers then Crede's career year. Fields has so much upside right now and with a lot of question marks with Crede, you have to give it to Fields and get as much as you can for Crede

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:18 PM
Rocky:

It's not a matter of "faith." It's the fact that the Sox have ZERO choice in the matter. Joe's agent has already told Kenny point blank he's headed to free agency.

Do you want a repeat of the Magglio situation? A very good player walks and the Sox get squat?

It's trade him or lose him...put in those terms what would you want? Again a deal IS NOT going to happen, no matter how much you, I and Sox fans want it to. Joe's agent has said no extension.

Lip
Lip,

Wouldn't we get a couple of draft picks for Crede if he walked or does he not have good enough stats for that?

voodoochile
02-18-2008, 12:29 PM
Yeah we should bank on "potential."
That will get us far!

You should take over the team.

If the Sox had as much faith as you do on Fields then this whole 3B issue would of been resolved a long time ago.

And if other teams would have as much faith on Fields then we probably could of ended up with Miguel Cabrera.

The fact is the Sox do and have had faith in Fields and have been aiming toward this moment since they first decided to draft him because Crede is represented by Boras.

Who knows if Crede's back will hold up long term to the stresses of playing baseball and in particular a position like 3B which regularly requires the player to dive for ground balls, charge bunts then bend over and throw while still bent over, not to mention the stress swinging a baseball bat puts on the lower back.

The options are:

Trade Crede now and get something for him.

Wait and see if he contributes then make a decision to either trade him for max value (and potentially disrupt the team).

Sign Crede long term now for big money and hope that his back holds up and figure out what to do with Fields.

voodoochile
02-18-2008, 12:31 PM
Crede hit .261 in his first full year (3rd year on the team), with a .308 OBP. He followed that up with a .239/.299 and a .252/.303.

Fields hit .244 with the same .308 OBP last year.

Crede's first few years were on a potent offense where he hit at the bottom of the order. Fields hit second on a very crappy offense most of the year last year.

They're very comparable, and Fields has more opportunity to improve. I personally think that Crede's career year of hitting .283 with 30 HR's is the peak of his ability, whereas we don't know where exactly Field's ceiling will be.

Crede also never got called up due to drastic need regardless of whether he was ready and never got moved around defensively. Anyone else think Fields' numbers would have been even better last year if he had never spent time in LF? I sure do...

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:32 PM
The fact is the Sox do and have had faith in Fields and have been aiming toward this moment since they first decided to draft him because Crede is represented by Boras.

Who knows if Crede's back will hold up long term to the stresses of playing baseball and in particular a position like 3B which regularly requires the player to dive for ground balls, charge bunts then bend over and throw while still bent over, not to mention the stress swinging a baseball bat puts on the lower back.

The options are:

Trade Crede now and get something for him.

Wait and see if he contributes then make a decision to either trade him for max value (and potentially disrupt the team).

Sign Crede long term now for big money and hope that his back holds up and figure out what to do with Fields.
If the Sox were to do this, I could possibly see next year having Fields being the DH with Thome's contract has an option and the Sox could decide not to pick it up unless if he wants a smaller role. Or possibly having Crede be the DH to keep him healthy.

The Immigrant
02-18-2008, 12:32 PM
Wouldn't we get a couple of draft picks for Crede if he walked or does he not have good enough stats for that?

It depends on how well he does in 2008. If Elias puts him in the top 40% of third basemen in the AL, he would be a Type B free agent - which gets the Sox an additional draft pick. He would have to be in the top 20% to be a Type A, which would get us two draft picks but is not likely to happen. If he is merely average, we would get diddly-squat.

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:33 PM
Crede also never got called up due to drastic need regardless of whether he was ready and never got moved around defensively. Anyone else think Fields' numbers would have been even better last year if he had never spent time in LF? I sure do...
I do because I can almost assure you that by trying the outfield that took away batting practice because he had to learn a new position of the fly.

voodoochile
02-18-2008, 12:34 PM
If the Sox were to do this, I could possibly see next year having Fields being the DH with Thome's contract has an option and the Sox could decide not to pick it up unless if he wants a smaller role. Or possibly having Crede be the DH to keep him healthy.

Too much risk, IMO. You really want to take the 5/75 risk it would take to sign Crede right now? I sincerely believe that is what Boras would ask for.

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:36 PM
Too much risk, IMO. You really want to take the 5/75 risk it would take to sign Crede right now? I sincerely believe that is what Boras would ask for.
No I don't want that to happen but I was just playing out a scenario if Crede were to get a long term deal.

sox1970
02-18-2008, 12:38 PM
Too much risk, IMO. You really want to take the 5/75 risk it would take to sign Crede right now? I sincerely believe that is what Boras would ask for.

He may ask for 5 years, but there's no way in hell Crede will ever get a 5 year contract from anyone. He'll probably go to SF, have a decent year, and then re-sign 3 years/ 40 million.

RockyMtnSoxFan
02-18-2008, 12:38 PM
Crede hit .261 in his first full year (3rd year on the team), with a .308 OBP. He followed that up with a .239/.299 and a .252/.303.

Fields hit .244 with the same .308 OBP last year.

Crede's first few years were on a potent offense where he hit at the bottom of the order. Fields hit second on a very crappy offense most of the year last year.

They're very comparable, and Fields has more opportunity to improve. I personally think that Crede's career year of hitting .283 with 30 HR's is the peak of his ability, whereas we don't know where exactly Field's ceiling will be.

Fine, they were comparable as rookies, but we're talking about Joe now, as a developed hitter, vs. Josh now, still developing. KW has made it clear that he thinks the Sox can win now, and is focusing on the present rather than the future by trading prospects for proven players. Even so, the Sox will need a lot of things to work out in their favor in order to compete this year. I think that if Joe shows he is healthy in ST, then having him at third gives the Sox a better chance of being able to compete for the division this year.

Look, I'm just basing my argument on what's happening now, because that's the direction KW and JR are taking this team. I would prefer to see them start rebuilding, because I don't think they can win the division, but if you're going to try to compete, you might as well give yourself the best chance possible.

spiffie
02-18-2008, 12:39 PM
If the Sox were to do this, I could possibly see next year having Fields being the DH with Thome's contract has an option and the Sox could decide not to pick it up unless if he wants a smaller role. Or possibly having Crede be the DH to keep him healthy.
Joe Crede as a DH would be an absolutely awful, terrible, appallingly bad idea. The only thing that makes Joe Crede an above average MLB player is his work with the glove. Otherwise he is an inconsistent low OBP hitter who has had 1 good almost-year in his career.

Mohoney
02-18-2008, 12:42 PM
If Crede does end up playing the entire 2008 season here, and then signs with another team in the 2008 offseason, would the White Sox get any draft pick compensation?

gogosox16
02-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Joe Crede as a DH would be an absolutely awful, terrible, appallingly bad idea. The only thing that makes Joe Crede an above average MLB player is his work with the glove. Otherwise he is an inconsistent low OBP hitter who has had 1 good almost-year in his career.
Well you could do like a 3 man rotation with Konerko, Fields, and Crede switching off as DH. When Konerko's Dh you can have Fields at first (would need practice) and Crede at 3rd.....With Crede DH, Fields 3rd, and Konerko 1st.....With Fields DH, Crede 3rd, and Konerko 1st.
This could keep these 3 players healthier and give them time to rest. Just a thought, but I know it won't happen

voodoochile
02-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Fine, they were comparable as rookies, but we're talking about Joe now, as a developed hitter, vs. Josh now, still developing. KW has made it clear that he thinks the Sox can win now, and is focusing on the present rather than the future by trading prospects for proven players. Even so, the Sox will need a lot of things to work out in their favor in order to compete this year. I think that if Joe shows he is healthy in ST, then having him at third gives the Sox a better chance of being able to compete for the division this year.

Look, I'm just basing my argument on what's happening now, because that's the direction KW and JR are taking this team. I would prefer to see them start rebuilding, because I don't think they can win the division, but if you're going to try to compete, you might as well give yourself the best chance possible.

Sure, but RIGHT NOW, Crede is at best 10-20% better than Fields yet is 1000% more expensive, 1000% more likely to get injured and infinitely more likely to leave next fall (since Fields simply cannot).

Yes, win now over other options, but you still make sensible cost/reward analysis decisions even under those conditions. And right now Fields' cost/reward potential is much better than Crede's.

Carolina Kenny
02-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Sure, but RIGHT NOW, Crede is at best 10-20% better than Fields yet is 1000% more expensive, 1000% more likely to get injured and infinitely more likely to leave next fall (since Fields simply cannot).

Yes, win now over other options, but you still make sensible cost/reward analysis decisions even under those conditions. And right now Fields' cost/reward potential is much better than Crede's.

OK, so Crede is 100% as good as gone. Thanks Joe, and good luck. Hello to the Josh Fields era.

With every GM aware of the situation, Joe would be of value only to a contending team that has a unexpected need at 3rd. It makes sense for the Sox to bide their time hoping for this best scenerio. Otherwise, Joe will only net us a middle of the road prospect at best. That said, Josh needs as many innings at 3rd in Tucson.

gna2112
02-18-2008, 01:05 PM
Everyone here has the right attitude, we just want what is good for our beloved White Sox. For what it's worth here is my take:
1. Crede has question marks all over him(injuries, free agency, Boras, etc).
2. Field's has much more upside(young, injury free, cheap, home grown prospect,more athletic, etc.)
3. Crede has good trade value, if in ST he proves he is healthy

Finally, if Fields and the rest of the young players continue to progress we have a bright future: Fields, Richar, Owens, Quentin....Mixed with veterans Konerko, Dye, Cabrera,Swisher,AJ..

Only question mark would be starting pitching, and I believe that would be addressed with the trade of Crede. And with Lowery inserted in the rotation I like our chances.
Plus, when it comes to money, I would rather spend it on a extension for Cabrera at SS. I believe he will be our MVP this year...teamed with Swisher those are 2 great off-season pick ups.

Rocky Soprano
02-18-2008, 01:09 PM
Rocky:

It's not a matter of "faith." It's the fact that the Sox have ZERO choice in the matter. Joe's agent has already told Kenny point blank he's headed to free agency.

Do you want a repeat of the Magglio situation? A very good player walks and the Sox get squat?

It's trade him or lose him...put in those terms what would you want? Again a deal IS NOT going to happen, no matter how much you, I and Sox fans want it to. Joe's agent has said no extension.

Lip

I agree and understand the whole FA/Boras situation. I just dont understand the whole Fields Kool Aid and why some people on here are so eager to trade Crede for prospects.

While I am a fan of Fields and hope he does live up to "potential." I dont think its a great idea to ship off Crede now.

mcfish
02-18-2008, 01:33 PM
Crede also never got called up due to drastic need regardless of whether he was ready and never got moved around defensively. Anyone else think Fields' numbers would have been even better last year if he had never spent time in LF? I sure do...Thanks, I forgot that one.

mcfish
02-18-2008, 01:37 PM
If the Sox were to do this, I could possibly see next year having Fields being the DH with Thome's contract has an option and the Sox could decide not to pick it up unless if he wants a smaller role. Or possibly having Crede be the DH to keep him healthy.Crede's not a good enough hitter to be a DH. In fact, defense is the only reason this discussion is even happening. Making him DH would be a waste of talent and money.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2008, 01:44 PM
Rocky:

Given the mathematical odds of a minor league prospect ever making the big leagues plus adding in the poor performance of the Sox "evaluators" over the past decade or so, I agree with you in this respect...you don't trade Crede, a proven big leaguer for 'prospects' and you don't hang on to him, see him walk and only get supplemental draft choices.

That approach is for the Tampa Bay's of the world.

You trade him for guys or a guy who has performed in the big's.

Remember when the Sox deal Joe he will have proven that he can get back on the field and play, no team will be willing to deal until that question is answered.

So if I'm the Sox and you want Joe, it's for major league guys...not kids in Double AA.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
02-18-2008, 01:44 PM
Why is it a sure thing that Crede is superior offensively? Fields posted a .788 OPS last season which was better than Crede's 2003-2005 campaigns, and not too far off Crede's "ceiling" 2006 season.

What do you do with Fields if you hang onto Crede?

Craig Grebeck
02-18-2008, 01:49 PM
Rocky:

Given the mathematical odds of a minor league prospect ever making the big leagues plus adding in the poor performance of the Sox "evaluators" over the past decade or so, I agree with you in this respect...you don't trade Crede, a proven big leaguer for 'prospects' and you don't hang on to him, see him walk and only get supplemental draft choices.

That approach is for the Tampa Bay's of the world.

You trade him for guys or a guy who has performed in the big's.

Remember when the Sox deal Joe he will have proven that he can get back on the field and play, no team will be willing to deal until that question is answered.

So if I'm the Sox and you want Joe, it's for major league guys...not kids in Double AA.

Lip
So that would be AAAA?

There is no team in baseball that would be willing to give up guys who have "performed"in the big's (sic) - whatever that means. Joe Crede, simply put, is a gamble right now. People piss and moan about Fields being "potentially" better than Crede - solely because he was, at one time, a prospect. I don't understand the certainty that Crede will perform at a high level. He's done it ONE time since 2003.

If, somehow, someway, Crede garners either Type A/B status - why wouldn't you let him walk and take draft picks? (All of this is assuming the front office keeps him around). We have a poor system, picking up picks would address that problem. Or would you rather further the market troubles by giving average ballplayers like Joe Crede significant long term deals?

ArkanSox
02-18-2008, 01:57 PM
I must admit that I've been harboring the false hope that we can somehow keep Joe, since I feel he gives us the best chance to win, but to be honest with myself, it just isn't gonna happen. I truly think Crede will be fine physically, and a great player for years to come, but we need to get somebody for him before he walks. Joe definitely has the defensive Credentials, but hopefully Fields can and will live up to his own name.

Rounding_Third
02-18-2008, 02:18 PM
I think we ride Crede this season, here's why:

1) No matter how good Joe is in ST, we'll get weak offers and probably get ripped off if a deal is made before Opening Day as opposing GM's play the "risk" card. Crede could hit 20 HR's in ST and the "risk" factor will still be played to convince KW to accept a lesser offer.

2) If he has a great 1st half and the Sox are in the race, why would we want to trade him? This talk from KW makes no sense to me, at all.

3) If he has a great season and we are in the race all year, we lose $5m when he goes FA. SO WHAT!!!!!!!!! KW & JR, isn't a pennant race filled with sellouts worth $5m to you? And don't we get a pair of draft picks if Crede goes FA, anyway?

4) If he struggles in the 1st half then bring Fields up. Again, it's only $5m and the quality in return on a trade for a struggling Crede won't be that much different as a trade done prior to Opening Day.

5) If the Sox are rolling and Joe is rolling and we trade him, what does that do to the chemistry of the moment? I.E. Hey we're winning so let's trade one of our most productive players....

I'd certainly feel sorry for Josh after all of his hard work but his day will come; sooner or later. But Crede has already proven that he can be a heck of a champion caliber player. And think of his desire for a huge payday next winter. You know he'll give it his all this summer. If he's his old clutch self, wouldn't we want him on OUR team? This "Let's trade him if he's good" makes no sense.

KW has played this situation very strangely. He's opened the door for interested GM's to take advantage and make inadequate offers and given control of the situation to them. He's also blown this into potentially a season ruining distraction when it didn't need to be so.

jsg-07
02-18-2008, 02:34 PM
I think we ride Crede this season, here's why:

1) No matter how good Joe is in ST, we'll get weak offers and probably get ripped off if a deal is made before Opening Day as opposing GM's play the "risk" card. Crede could hit 20 HR's in ST and the "risk" factor will still be played to convince KW to accept a lesser offer.

2) If he has a great 1st half and the Sox are in the race, why would we want to trade him? This talk from KW makes no sense to me, at all.

3) If he has a great season and we are in the race all year, we lose $5m when he goes FA. SO WHAT!!!!!!!!! KW & JR, isn't a pennant race filled with sellouts worth $5m to you? And don't we get a pair of draft picks if Crede goes FA, anyway?

4) If he struggles in the 1st half then bring Fields up. Again, it's only $5m and the quality in return on a trade for a struggling Crede won't be that much different as a trade done prior to Opening Day.

5) If the Sox are rolling and Joe is rolling and we trade him, what does that do to the chemistry of the moment? I.E. Hey we're winning so let's trade one of our most productive players....

I'd certainly feel sorry for Josh after all of his hard work but his day will come; sooner or later. But Crede has already proven that he can be a heck of a champion caliber player. And think of his desire for a huge payday next winter. You know he'll give it his all this summer. If he's his old clutch self, wouldn't we want him on OUR team? This "Let's trade him if he's good" makes no sense.

KW has played this situation very strangely. He's opened the door for interested GM's to take advantage and make inadequate offers and given control of the situation to them. He's also blown this into potentially a season ruining distraction when it didn't need to be so.

I have to agree with quite a bit of this. I think if you can get a starting pitcher (one of the three mentioned on this site from the Giants), then maybe its time to say good bye to Joe. But, if you are not going to get much for him, then why not see what he can bring to the table this year. Maybe he plays like a stud to prove he is healthy going into a contract year.

But for me, I could care less about his offense or the fact that Fields is looking like he may become a stud at the plate. Crede (when healthy) is a stud at 3B. I think with a pitching staff with so many question marks, his saving balls from getting through the infield is more important than Fields potentially becoming a heavy hitter (and its not like I would like to see him go).

I can just think of so many plays he has made at third that have gotten the sox out of innings that maybe fields doesnt make and the inning extends which means the pitch count goes up, the morale goes down, etc (you get the picture).

I would be willing to see the sox lose $5 mil and "prospects" if it means we have a chance at a healthy Crede even if for only one year.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2008, 04:18 PM
Craig:

The point is Crede won't be accepted by another big league club until he proves he's healthy. (Probably later this spring...) That means they feel he's ready to perform at his old level this year. In other words, he's a big leaguer.

Yes, I'll take a Noah Lowry or anyone of his ilk who have had some success at the big league level in return for Joe Crede a proven, bona fide big leaguer rather then two kids from Podunk, Arkansas, double AA who'll probably never see day one in the big leagues according to the law of averages or a draft pick that the organization will probably blow anyway. That's just my opinion.

Lip

ksimpson14
02-18-2008, 04:25 PM
I've heard that same argument as the CLTV one, it seems rough to keep Fields in Charlotte though, and I think Crede would be traded a lot sooner than they think

It's too bad, I really love Joe, I was a supporter when he had a rough start, and have been really happy to see him grow here. Plus, he's embedded into our history, World Series baby.

Fields has shown a nice bat though, I wish Fields played another position. I almost wish he could excel at LF, could've moved Dye to DH, and gotten something of value for Thome (as much as I love him, think he would've gotten a decent return compared to other options)

Metalthrasher442
02-18-2008, 04:27 PM
I know Crede will be traded away. It's the best decision. It's just a matter of time.

It won't bother me too much because I'm very interested to see what Fields could do with a full season and an offseason behind him.

Tragg
02-18-2008, 09:40 PM
I'm assuming that the Sox want to trade Crede.
If they are confident he's healthy, wait until late spring to trade him.
Crede or no Crede, no way can the Sox keep Fields off this roster and not have him playing several times a week. Dye, Crede, Konkerko and Thome all need rest, and he's too good, too promising, not to have in the ML lineup a LOT.

I'd much rather trade Crede for some highly rated prospects than a so-so ML pitcher. Lowry's numbers are just not that hard to replicate.

PKalltheway
02-19-2008, 12:27 AM
I've already resigned myself to the fact that Crede's gonna get traded. To me, it's only a matter of when. Fields has already proven himself at the major league level, and Crede's probably gonna go test free agency, so it will probably be in the best interests of the Sox to try to get something for him while they can.

If they end up trading Crede, they should try to do it during Spring Training. If Crede ends up going north with the team to start the season, and he starts off hot, that could end up making a decision more difficult to make. Then again, if the Sox are doing good while this happens, I won't complain.:cool:

itsnotrequired
02-19-2008, 10:57 AM
Fields will never win the job if he doesn't use the proper glove.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6141/35757176ss7.jpg

:tongue:

oeo
02-19-2008, 11:00 AM
Fields will never win the job if he doesn't use the proper glove.

:tongue:

He said he worked a lot on his defensive game over the offseason. I'm excited to see what he looks like out on the field.

KenBerryGrab
02-19-2008, 12:07 PM
Fields will never win the job if he doesn't use the proper glove.



:tongue:


Nice. I try to get our Little League kids to use undersized gloves in drills, but they won't do it. Great training tool to quicken and soften the hands.