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View Full Version : When is it Rowand time?


Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 03:39 PM
When will Aaron Rowand be given a chance to play a little bit? Has there ever been a better time to give CLee a little time off than now? The guy looks as lost as I've ever seen him. Pitchers that get two strikes on him won't even throw him a strike because they know he'll swing at anything. Yesterday, with a 2-2 count, he swung at two consecutive pitches above his neck and then was called out for not swinging at a hanging curve that had plenty of the plate. I'm not saying Rowand is the answer, but for how long does Lee get a free pass? He's been a very poor offensive player since the middle of last year. It's time to at least see if Aaron can provide us w/ some kind of spark, the way he did last year.

Randar68
04-23-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
I'm not saying Rowand is the answer, but for how long does Lee get a free pass? He's been a very poor offensive player since the middle of last year. It's time to at least see if Aaron can provide us w/ some kind of spark, the way he did last year.

Never, Aaron Rowand is not an everyday major league ball player. You are basing your entire opinion on fewer than 200 career AB's and on results that he never was able to produce in the minors. He is a solid baseball player and could start on some teams in the league, but not a team contending for a division crown.

The second anyone starts struggling you want to replace them? Thank god you are not our coach/GM!!!!!!!!!!!



BLA!

duke of dorwood
04-23-2002, 04:25 PM
Sounded teal to me

Kilroy
04-23-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Never, Aaron Rowand is not an everyday major league ball player. You are basing your entire opinion on fewer than 200 career AB's and on results that he never was able to produce in the minors.


Ummmm, so are you!!

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

Never, Aaron Rowand is not an everyday major league ball player. You are basing your entire opinion on fewer than 200 career AB's and on results that he never was able to produce in the minors. He is a solid baseball player and could start on some teams in the league, but not a team contending for a division crown.

The second anyone starts struggling you want to replace them? Thank god you are not our coach/GM!!!!!!!!!!!
BLA!

Actually, I'm basing this on what Lee has done this season and last season. Please reread my original post....I note that I don't specifically know that Aaron is the answer. What I do know is that right now, Lee is playing godawful. Does he get a free pass forever because Randar68 says he should? Put Liefer out there. Put Rowand out there. Put anybody out there. But for god's sake, put someone out there that can get on base more than CLee.

There is certainly no evidence to the effect that Rowand can't and wouldn't make it as an every day major leaguer. At least he has a concept of all of the various tools necessary to being a good ballplayer. He's even demonstrated all of those tools on occasion.

If I really wanted to replace someone the second they started struggling, I'd have pulled Lee in July of 2001. What's worse, pulling a guy just because he's struggling (CLee) or pulling a guy that has been doing great before he's even been given a chance to struggle (Rowand)? I only want to see Aaron get more playing time while Lee is having trouble.

Randar68
04-23-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy



Ummmm, so are you!!

No, I'm basing them over what he did in 3 years in the minors and comparing them to what he's been able to do thus far. Unless Rowand had some sort of devine preminition, he is still Aaron Rowand.

I did say he could start on several Major League teams, however...


BTW, why do we want to replace Carlos while he's in a bit of a slump? WE ARE SCORING ALMOST 7 RUNS PER GAME!!!!!!!!

Take some freakin' :prozac already!

CerberusWG
04-23-2002, 04:53 PM
Why woulnd't you go with Rowand at this point? C Lee looks awful, and Rowand can't be much worse.

PANFIRECRACKER
04-23-2002, 04:58 PM
we're going to need the bench sometime. Rowand and Liefer need at least one start per week.

Randar68
04-23-2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Why woulnd't you go with Rowand at this point? C Lee looks awful, and Rowand can't be much worse.

Carlos has .300-30-100 potential (something nobody can say Rowand has), and if he can pull it off, he could bring real value in a trade. Value which won't be added by putting him on the bench.

Almost everyone here is starting to see that it doesn't appear likely the Sox will keep Carlos beyond next year. Until then, he isn't too expensive and if he can put it together, could be worth enough to fill another need of ours.

It seems obvious the Sox are moving away from the LTP in Center idea, and we have Maggs.

It makes no sense to put Carlos on the bench for someone, who at the peak of their game, could only bring half of what Carlos could in a trade if he straightens his sheet out.

This is still a business and the Sox are still in the business of the bottom line. If they can't pay for talent, they better have some showcased that they are willing to give up.

Who knows, maybe we will see a deadline deal sending Carlos out for pitching, who knows. But at this point, when you are scoring runs liek we are IN SPIT of Carlos' lack of production, it makes absolutely zero sense from any perspective to put him on the bench.

CerberusWG
04-23-2002, 05:01 PM
Carlos has .300-30-100 potential, and if he can pull it off, he could bring real value in a trade. Value which won't be added by putting him on the bench.

Playing him in a slump hurts his trade value, no?

You could also argue that Rowand could add runs.

I also could care less what Rowand did in the Minors. He's in the Big leagues now, and all that matters is his production NOW, not in the future, not in the past, but NOW.

Randar68
04-23-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG


Playing him in a slump hurts his trade value, no?

Benching him in a slump hurts it more, IMO. Shows the club doesn't have the faith in him to turn it around and gives other teams more leverage in negotiations.


Originally posted by CerberusWG
I also could care less what Rowand did in the Minors. He's in the Big leagues now, and all that matters is his production NOW, not in the future, not in the past, but NOW.

We wouldn't want to learn from the only history available now would we?

Go barracade yourself up in the Alamo if you wish, but history and past performance is the only thing you have to go by. On top of this, Rowand has made ZERO major adjustments that would change what those numbers indicate to be his potential.

Nellie_Fox
04-23-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Put Liefer out there.
Quick, someone hide Liefer's glove before anyone gets any ideas!

Bmr31
04-23-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Carlos has .300-30-100 potential (something nobody can say Rowand has), and if he can pull it off, he could bring real value in a trade. Value which won't be added by putting him on the bench.

Almost everyone here is starting to see that it doesn't appear likely the Sox will keep Carlos beyond next year. Until then, he isn't too expensive and if he can put it together, could be worth enough to fill another need of ours.

It seems obvious the Sox are moving away from the LTP in Center idea, and we have Maggs.

It makes no sense to put Carlos on the bench for someone, who at the peak of their game, could only bring half of what Carlos could in a trade if he straightens his sheet out.

This is still a business and the Sox are still in the business of the bottom line. If they can't pay for talent, they better have some showcased that they are willing to give up.

Who knows, maybe we will see a deadline deal sending Carlos out for pitching, who knows. But at this point, when you are scoring runs liek we are IN SPIT of Carlos' lack of production, it makes absolutely zero sense from any perspective to put him on the bench.

I have to go with randar here......Lee is a much better player than Rowand. Crashing into a wall or two doesnt magically give him the talent he lacks....

hold2dibber
04-23-2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Carlos has .300-30-100 potential (something nobody can say Rowand has), and if he can pull it off, he could bring real value in a trade. Value which won't be added by putting him on the bench.

Almost everyone here is starting to see that it doesn't appear likely the Sox will keep Carlos beyond next year. Until then, he isn't too expensive and if he can put it together, could be worth enough to fill another need of ours.

It seems obvious the Sox are moving away from the LTP in Center idea, and we have Maggs.

It makes no sense to put Carlos on the bench for someone, who at the peak of their game, could only bring half of what Carlos could in a trade if he straightens his sheet out.

This is still a business and the Sox are still in the business of the bottom line. If they can't pay for talent, they better have some showcased that they are willing to give up.

Who knows, maybe we will see a deadline deal sending Carlos out for pitching, who knows. But at this point, when you are scoring runs liek we are IN SPIT of Carlos' lack of production, it makes absolutely zero sense from any perspective to put him on the bench.

I completely agree. Although I think have a higher opinion of Rowand's potential than does Randar, I don't think he has the potential CLee has, and I would like to keep CLee in there in hopes that he starts slamming the ball around enough to make him valuable trade bait for a #3 type starter. Then you can platoon Rowand and Liefer in left and get similar (although probably not quite as good) production as you were getting from Lee (assuming Lee gets his act together). It's only been two weeks and Carlos has shown that he can hit major league pitching. Although I would try to get Rowand and Liefer each one start per week (and I'd start pinch hitting Liefer for Clayton and/or Alomar against right handed pitchers late in the game).

Randar68
04-23-2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox

Quick, someone hide Liefer's glove before anyone gets any ideas!

LOL!


Liefer in the OF!!!! HA!


BLA!

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


BTW, why do we want to replace Carlos while he's in a bit of a slump? WE ARE SCORING ALMOST 7 RUNS PER GAME!!!!!!!!


Because I would like to average 7.5 runs per game?
Because our starting pitching might eventually start giving up 7 runs per game?
Because I think Rowand would be a better player than CLee is right now?

RedPinStripes
04-23-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


No, I'm basing them over what he did in 3 years in the minors and comparing them to what he's been able to do thus far. Unless Rowand had some sort of devine preminition, he is still Aaron Rowand.

I did say he could start on several Major League teams, however...


BTW, why do we want to replace Carlos while he's in a bit of a slump? WE ARE SCORING ALMOST 7 RUNS PER GAME!!!!!!!!

Take some freakin' :prozac already!

I know you're not a huge fan of Rowand, but from what i heard in the past about him is that he was very impatient at the plate. For what Lee did in hte second half, and what he's done so far, I don't see anything wrong with putting him in there over Lee for a while. Carlos has been better defensivly, but he still cant hit a ball to the oposite field. He looks like he's looking to pull everything even if its outside and I hardly ever see anyone throwing him high and inside anymore because he hits that pitch a country mile.

Last year at the plate, Rowand seemed pretty patient to me and he is a defensive improvement over Lee.

This also goes back to that famous Rowand thread i started last year that ended up in a brawl. ****ty choice for a first thread . lol

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


I know you're not a huge fan of Rowand, but from what i heard in the past about him is that he was very impatient at the plate. For what Lee did in hte second half, and what he's done so far, I don't see anything wrong with putting him in there over Lee for a while.

Last year at the plate, Rowand seemed pretty patient to me and he is a defensive improvement over Lee.

This also goes back to that famous Rowand thread i started last year that ended up in a brawl. ****ty choice for a first thread . lol

On Rowand's worst day, he's twice as patient as Lee is at the plate. On his worst day, he's twice the fielder that Lee is. Rowand has been an excellent hitter and on-base guy since his call-up. All I'm saying is why not at least give the guy a chance to prove he's not the player that he appears instead of just benching him while he's playing well in favor of Lee, who's simply stinking up the joint.

As for trade value....the hell with trade value. I'm tired of waiting for this team to win and go to the world series. Play the best players and try to win. Try to get some of your old fan base back. Players like Rowand help the club by getting on base, crashing into walls making catches and generally doing what it takes to win games. That kind of stuff builds a buzz about a team and brings out fans.

Bmr31
04-23-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob


On Rowand's worst day, he's twice as patient as Lee is at the plate. On his worst day, he's twice the fielder that Lee is. Rowand has been an excellent hitter and on-base guy since his call-up. All I'm saying is why not at least give the guy a chance to prove he's not the player that he appears instead of just benching him while he's playing well in favor of Lee, who's simply stinking up the joint.

As for trade value....the hell with trade value. I'm tired of waiting for this team to win and go to the world series. Play the best players and try to win. Try to get some of your old fan base back. Players like Rowand help the club by getting on base, crashing into walls making catches and generally doing what it takes to win games. That kind of stuff builds a buzz about a team and brings out fans.


whens the last time you watched a baseball game? Just curious......

bjmarte
04-23-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



whens the last time you watched a baseball game? Just curious......

The new kinder, gentler BMR :D:

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


I have to go with randar here......Lee is a much better player than Rowand.

Based on what?
His defense?
His speed?
His great eye at the plate?
His slugging pct?
His OBP?
Lee isn't a "much better player" than just about anyone on the club at this time. Since the middle of last year, he's better than maybe Clayton and even that's debatable. He's probably better than our catchers from a hitting perspective. What is the facination with Lee? Is it the "potential" that he might hit 30 HR's someday? Hitting 30 hr's and knocking in 100 rbi's is not exactly the greatest accomplishment anymore, especially if it's accompanied by Lee's crappy lifetime OBP of .324.

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31

whens the last time you watched a baseball game? Just curious......

What does that have to do with anything? I watch every game if it matters to you. And in those games, Lee has sucked. Has he played well on your television?

RedPinStripes
04-23-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob


Has he played well on your television?
LOL! :gulp:

Careful.........

If you disagree 1 more time you'll be accused of knowing nothing about baseball.

Bmr31
04-23-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob


What does that have to do with anything? I watch every game if it matters to you. And in those games, Lee has sucked. Has he played well on your television?

I asked because just like that bck dude or whatever his name is, you seem to have a personal agenda here. IF you watch baseball on a consistent basis, you wouldnt even compare rowand to Lee. Rowand, if hes LUCKY, is going to be a career 4th or 5th outfielder. Carlos lee isnt great, but he sure as hell is better than Rowand. Drop your agenda, or watch a baseball game or two......

RedPinStripes
04-23-2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


I asked because just like that bck dude or whatever his name is, you seem to have a personal agenda here. IF you watch baseball on a consistent basis, you wouldnt even compare rowand to Lee. Rowand, if hes LUCKY, is going to be a career 4th or 5th outfielder. Carlos lee isnt great, but he sure as hell is better than Rowand. Drop your agenda, or watch a baseball game or two......

Waht makes Lee so much better? That he can hit a high and inside pitch and pull any outside pitch for a slow ground ball to the ss? Or is it his great defense?

Rowand is no Lofton or Maggs, but I don't think he can be much worse then Lee at this point.

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


I asked because just like that bck dude or whatever his name is, you seem to have a personal agenda here. IF you watch baseball on a consistent basis, you wouldnt even compare rowand to Lee. Rowand, if hes LUCKY, is going to be a career 4th or 5th outfielder. Carlos lee isnt great, but he sure as hell is better than Rowand. Drop your agenda, or watch a baseball game or two......

Personal agenda? Whatever. Don't know what you're inferring, but if thinking Carlos Lee is currently a crappy and incomplete ballplayer, than call it a personal agenda. I'll drop my agenda when I'm good and ready.

I do, however, think you may very well be correct that Aaron may never be more than a 4th or 5th outfielder, but I'd sure like for him to be given the opportunity to prove that. His stats so far have been pretty darned good.

I'll be sure to watch some more games, like you suggest. Is there a different channel on which CLee plays better than the ones I've been watching?

Bmr31
04-23-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Waht makes Lee so much better? That he can hit a high and inside pitch and pull any outside pitch for a slow ground ball to the ss? Or is it his great defense?

Rowand is no Lofton or Maggs, but I don't think he can be much worse then Lee at this point.


hmmm, talent?

Bmr31
04-23-2002, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob


Personal agenda? Whatever. Don't know what you're inferring, but if thinking Carlos Lee is currently a crappy and incomplete ballplayer, than call it a personal agenda. I'll drop my agenda when I'm good and ready.

I do, however, think you may very well be correct that Aaron may never be more than a 4th or 5th outfielder, but I'd sure like for him to be given the opportunity to prove that. His stats so far have been pretty darned good.

I'll be sure to watch some more games, like you suggest. Is there a different channel on which CLee plays better than the ones I've been watching?

okay great. How about we start experimenting when you arent in a pennant race? Sound good?

RedPinStripes
04-23-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



hmmm, talent?

Yeah, he's a real hawk out there in LF. I think you're referring to potential talent which i don't think as highly of lee as others. He reminds me of another Lyle Mouton. That's a little extream, but I don't think he's going to be another Thomas like some people think.

Randar68
04-23-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
I do, however, think you may very well be correct that Aaron may never be more than a 4th or 5th outfielder, but I'd sure like for him to be given the opportunity to prove that. His stats so far have been pretty darned good.


So, we bench Lee, and Rowand is average. We trade Lee and get less than true value...

THEN YOU WILL BE HERE CRYIN AND BITCHIN' about that!!!!!!!

People are never happy here. If you want him gone, you gotta showcase him for other teams and hope he turns it around. At this point, about the only way his stock goes down is if we bench him.

At that point, you'd all be calling for Kenny's head for doing exactly what you asked!

MikeKreevich
04-23-2002, 06:33 PM
We might see Leifer tonight with Colon pitching, and Johnson will problably catch.

RedPinStripes
04-23-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


So, we bench Lee, and Rowand is average. We trade Lee and get less than true value...

THEN YOU WILL BE HERE CRYIN AND BITCHIN' about that!!!!!!!

People are never happy here. If you want him gone, you gotta showcase him for other teams and hope he turns it around. At this point, about the only way his stock goes down is if we bench him.

At that point, you'd all be calling for Kenny's head for doing exactly what you asked!

If they really intend on trading him, you've got a good point, but I thought he was going to be moved over the winter. If i remember correctly, didn't they try moving him to LA or Pitt?

Randar68
04-23-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


If they really intend on trading him, you've got a good point, but I thought he was going to be moved over the winter. If i remember correctly, didn't they try moving him to LA or Pitt?

I think he would have been part of the Giles proposal, but also may have been involved in the failed Erstad attempt also.

Thank God that one didn't go through, huh?!?!?

BTW, I think at this point he's on his way out the door. after the extension he got, if he doesn't start producing in a big way to merit the pay increase he is going to want beyond that, then he might as well have them packed now...


Also, Carlos is a very good hitter to the opposite field. He took every tough pitch there for the first 1-2 years with the big club. Since Frank hurt himself, he has slowly been going less and less to the opposite field, to the point where now he hardly ever will.

RedPinStripes
04-23-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I think he would have been part of the Giles proposal, but also may have been involved in the failed Erstad attempt also.

Thank God that one didn't go through, huh?!?!?

That Erstad deal was rediculous! Good thing The Angels owner don't know a steal when it's in front of him. Wasn't KW going to part with Lee, Garland , and Fogg for Erstad?

Randar68
04-23-2002, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


That Erstad deal was rediculous! Good thing The Angels owner don't know a steal when it's in front of him. Wasn't KW going to part with Lee, Garland , and Fogg for Erstad?

The minor league player's name was never revealed, but if I recall correctly, it was rumored to be Brian West...

Jerry_Manuel
04-23-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
The minor league player's name was never revealed, but if I recall correctly, it was rumored to be Brian West...

IIRC, it was 2 minor leaguers involved in the deal. West and Edwin Almonte, but that's water under the bridge now.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2002, 06:48 PM
Would this be a good time to mention Lee has improved his glove more than anybody since last season? Or that Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, and Valentin have all suffered slumps already this season? Or that the Sox are leading the league in offensive production in spite of these slumps?

Why are we singling out Carlos Lee for a problem that doesn't even exist? He struck out 3 times last night, but the Sox as a team struck out TEN times!

If Lee doesn't cut it in 2002, there will plenty of teams interested in dealing with the Sox to get him. KW locked Lee up cheap with a two-year deal. The Sox can not lose by playing him everyday--especially while the team "slumps" its way to 7 runs per game, LOL!

If Lee fails, next year's outfield is Maggs in LF, Lofton or Harris in CF, and Borchard in RF, with Lee dealt for something of value.

Thus, Rowand is nothing but a utility fielder regardless of whether Lee succeeds or not. The point is moot because the Sox already have multiple options BETTER THAN Rowand in CF and the corner positions.

Rowand runs into walls because he can't track a ball without keeping a beaded eye on it. His mechanics in the outfield are worthy of a mediocre college player. Manuel and Williams know it, and so does everyone else in baseball. That is why Rowand isn't worth jack in trade.

This whole debate is preposterous. Lee will start until the entire offense collapses or the Sox fall out of contention. Book it.

Bmr31
04-23-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Would this be a good time to mention Lee has improved his glove more than anybody since last season? Or that Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, and Valentin have all suffered slumps already this season? Or that the Sox are leading the league in offensive production in spite of these slumps?

Why are we singling out Carlos Lee for a problem that doesn't even exist? He struck out 3 times last night, but the Sox as a team struck out TEN times!

If Lee doesn't cut it in 2002, there will plenty of teams interested in dealing with the Sox to get him. KW locked Lee up cheap with a two-year deal. The Sox can not lose by playing him everyday--especially while the team "slumps" its way to 7 runs per game, LOL!

If Lee fails, next year's outfield is Maggs in LF, Lofton or Harris in CF, and Borchard in RF, with Lee dealt for something of value.

Thus, Rowand is nothing but a utility fielder regardless of whether Lee succeeds or not. The point is moot because the Sox already have multiple options BETTER THAN Rowand in CF and the corner positions.

Rowand runs into walls because he can't track a ball without keeping a beaded eye on it. His mechanics in the outfield are worthy of a mediocre college player. Manuel and Williams know it, and so does everyone else in baseball. That is why Rowand isn't worth jack in trade.

This whole debate is preposterous. Lee will start until the entire offense collapses or the Sox fall out of contention. Book it.

I agree 100 percent. I'll bite my tongue on any additional comments... :)

Randar68
04-23-2002, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


I agree 100 percent. I'll bite my tongue on any additional comments... :)

yep, seems almost CC of what I've said to this point....plus the defensive point of view...

Paulwny
04-23-2002, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31

I agree 100 percent.

I'm with you, Randar and PHG. Let's give Lee a full year to see if he gets back to his old batting form.

ode to veeck
04-23-2002, 07:36 PM
Quick, someone hide Liefer's glove before anyone gets any ideas

*****! Absolutely, we know he needs some playing, but I like better the idea of Rowand filling in some OF starts, and yes play Carlos through his slump. We know Liefer's a lifer 250ish BA with some demonstrated power, fill him in elsewhere for his bench starts--I just love seeing crash Rowand taking balls into the fence--great inspiration, just hope he doesn't end early with stinger or neck problems

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


So, we bench Lee, and Rowand is average. We trade Lee and get less than true value...

THEN YOU WILL BE HERE CRYIN AND BITCHIN' about that!!!!!!!

People are never happy here. If you want him gone, you gotta showcase him for other teams and hope he turns it around. At this point, about the only way his stock goes down is if we bench him.

At that point, you'd all be calling for Kenny's head for doing exactly what you asked!

I never said I wanted Lee benched, so much as I'd like for Rowand to get some playing time and if that means sitting Lee here and there for a game or two, so be it.

I've never cried about any trade KW made, as I've thought we've gotton fair or close to fair value in all of them. I'd be the last one to call for KW's head. Give the guy a little bit of time. Signing Lofton for nothing is one of the best GM moves of the last couple of decades.

Soxboyrob
04-23-2002, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

Why are we singling out Carlos Lee for a problem that doesn't even exist? He struck out 3 times last night, but the Sox as a team struck out TEN times!.....

Thus, Rowand is nothing but a utility fielder regardless of whether Lee succeeds or not. The point is moot because the Sox already have multiple options BETTER THAN Rowand in CF and the corner positions.

This whole debate is preposterous.

I singled out CLee because Rowand has yet to perform poorly at the major league level. You give the subjective opinion that this is a preposterous argument, which is fine, but if you began evaluating both players from the moment Aaron came up, you'd have to conclude Rowand is the better player. Sure, Lee has a history behind him but how long is he allowed to just fall back on that history. I'm not trying to make the argument that we ought to just trade CLee and sign Rowand to a 5 year deal and put him in LF because I don't want to see that. I'd just like to see with my own eyes that Rowand is as poor a player as you, Randar and BMR are making him out to be. The guy has done nothing but give his all, perform well and hustle his kiester off for this team and I'd like to see the club throw the poor guy a bone once in a while.

Mathew
04-23-2002, 10:21 PM
This isn't little league, we don't have to throw anybody a bone. Aaron is a big boy now he can take it.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2002, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
blah, blah, blah... The guy has done nothing but give his all, perform well and hustle his kiester off for this team and I'd like to see the club throw the poor guy a bone once in a while.

LOL! If the Sox gave me a chance to suit up and play left field, not only would I hustle my kiester off for the team, I would work for free--which is infinitely less than what Aaron Rowand makes. Unlike you, I would never suggest any of this was a good reason for letting me play LF for the Sox.

There is no substitute for talent. Compared to any number of other guys in the Sox organization, Rowand plays the game with two left feet. I suggest you just deal with the reality of it.

He's on the bench (along with Liefer and others) for good reason.

Soxboyrob
04-24-2002, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

Unlike you, I would never suggest any of this was a good reason for letting me play LF for the Sox.

There is no substitute for talent. Compared to any number of other guys in the Sox organization, Rowand plays the game with two left feet. I suggest you just deal with the reality of it.

He's on the bench (along with Liefer and others) for good reason.

Well, we're in agreement that the guy isn't stellar defensive material. Was there ever a feeling that he was actually a good fielder? I'd only like to see the guy used in LF, where average to poor fielders are commonplace. On Aaron's worst day, he's a better fielder than CLee. Lee appears to have improved out there, but it's a little early to hand him a gold glove. I only wish to see Rowand in the order more often to find out if he can continue to reach base at his .390 OBP clip. If he can come close to this and hit 20 or so HR's, then he's better than the present day CLee. In the meantime, CLee actually had some nice swings last night. Nice to see him actually go the other way.

Randar68
04-24-2002, 11:08 AM
to find out if he can continue to reach base at his .390 OBP clip. If he can come close to this and hit 20 or so HR's, then he's better than the present day CLee.

BWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAA!!!!!!!!!!

HHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!



WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!

RedPinStripes
04-24-2002, 11:18 AM
It figured, I just get done bitching about Lee pulling outside pitches for groundouts and he gets a key hit to RF last night. Someone talked to him yesterday.

Randar68
04-24-2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
It figured, I just get done bitching about Lee pulling outside pitches for groundouts and he gets a key hit to RF last night. Someone talked to him yesterday.


LOL! Bitch about him every day and see how it goes...


BLA!

RedPinStripes
04-24-2002, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Randar68



LOL! Bitch about him every day and see how it goes...


BLA!

That's how it's gone all year. I was all over Ray Durham and then he went on a tear. I got on Ritchie a little, look at him, I even got all over Alomar. lol I'll bitch all year if it gets us to the WS.

bc2k
04-25-2002, 12:56 AM
Last season I liked Rowand more than Carlos. Since Carlos has greatly improved his defense, I would rather see him in Left over Rowand. I do agree with Soxboyrob in giving Rowand a couple starts and let Lee sit while he is slumping at the plate.

A couple games this year Carlos has made web-gem catches and then got replaced by Rowand as defensive replacement late in that same game. Rowand's role is unnecessary now that Carlos has a glove. I have never seen a turnaround like the one Carlos is doing now. He went from a liability to an assest over one offseason. So where does this leave Rowand? Let him replace Maggs in right late in games, if anyone. Some of you may not agree with this statement I'm about to make but I think Lee is a better defensive player that Maggs is right now. I know who Gary Pettis is going to be working with next offseason.

I don't want to see Lee or Rowand traded this season. Right now we have 5 quality outfielders including Borchard, not including Liefer. If Lofton isn't resigned (God forbid), or Maggs or Lee gets seriously hurt, or for some reason 5.3 million boy isn't the CF some thought, then having Rowand around will prove invaluable. Much more than some #3 starter who may be a FA at years end, or has a huge contract might help.

I don't know when Maggs' contract expires, but what if in a couple of years KW trades him b/c he says he couldn't afford him with the attendance numbers. My point is Rowand and Lee are both quality players who are good to keep around, especially if Rowand has no trade value like some of you have said. If he can't get us a quality arm, don't make a trade just to make a trade.

Before this season started, many of us said 2003 is our year to contend and that we would hate to see KW give away everything to win the division when more prosperous times (World Series) are ahead, starting in 2003. So trading for a quality #3 with baggage (huge contract, about to be a FA) is not a smart move, and if you read the Tribune today, we know that Kenny Williams has not been stupid since the Fifth grade. Sorry for writing a novel, I guess this just shows the complicity of the situation, or that I am really long winded.

Soxboyrob
04-25-2002, 09:23 AM
I've not seen anything from Maggs that would lead me to believe he's anything less than an adequate defensive outfielder, if not better. He looks to me like he gets good jumps and takes good routes to balls, despite his so-so speed.

Lee has made some nice plays in the outfield so far this year and is definitely showing improvement, but he's not in the same defensive class as Magglio. Lee doesn't have the arm Maggs does, nor does he get the good jumps or take good routes to the ball. Lee is kinda unpredictable out there and is sort of an enigma, if anything. I can't count how many times he's looked like a squirrel in the middle of a busy highway while tracking a flyball and then somehow managed to make the play anyway.

For now, I'd at least stick with replacing CLee with Rowand as a late innings replacement, not to mention that if the game somehow goes into extra innings, I'd much rather have Maggs' bat in the lineup than Lee's.

Chisox353014
04-25-2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
It figured, I just get done bitching about Lee pulling outside pitches for groundouts and he gets a key hit to RF last night. Someone talked to him yesterday.

Gary Ward, I believe. The Sun-Times said that they're working on Lee staying inside the ball on his swing. He also moved a little closer to the plate. Ward deserves some props for the start we've had: our hitters have a great approach at the plate this year. Not nearly as many homer-only offensive games.