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View Full Version : A couple of Sox trade opps to consider...


WhiteSoxFan84
02-16-2008, 04:35 AM
These aren't reports or anything I just heard bits and pieces from a few friends and these two trades actually.... made some sense? In fact, I think they both SHOULD go do if one of them were to happen. Why? Well here are the trades first of all...

1) Jose Contreras to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp
2) Joe Crede and pitching prospect(s) (most likely Lance Broadway) to the Giants for Noah Lowry

If we lose Jose, then we need a proven starter as we can't go into the season with 3 unproven/very young starters and would need someone reliable like Lowry.

I personally would love to see both these trades go down especially because of how much money we'd save on Contreras' contract. I'd be a lot happier with Buehrle (L)/Vasquez (R)/Lowry (L)/Danks (L)/Floyd (R) than our present rotation (whether you put Danks 4th or 5th you'll still have 2 lefties going back to back). Then you have a lineup of Crisp/Cabrera/Thome/Konerko/Swisher/Dye/Pierzynski/Fields/Richar or Uribe. I like the balance.

What do you guys think of the two trades?

Chrisaway
02-16-2008, 05:26 AM
Why would the Red Sox want Contreras???

moochpuppy
02-16-2008, 08:47 AM
I don't like the idea of giving up Broadway.

moochpuppy
02-16-2008, 08:48 AM
Why would the Red Sox want Contreras???

They need another arm if Schilling can't go.

KyWhiSoxFan
02-16-2008, 09:07 AM
Instead of trading Broadway, I'd trade MacDougal to open up room in the pen, to dump salary and a bum.

Craig Grebeck
02-16-2008, 10:13 AM
Why would they need another arm?

Beckett
Matsuzaka
Wakefield
Lester
Buchholz

Where does Contreras fit?

For the love of God why are people so obsessed with benching Carlos Quentin?

pierzynski07
02-16-2008, 10:34 AM
You would have to pay the Red Sox about $10 million in order for them to even consider it.

Juice16
02-16-2008, 11:09 AM
Why would they need another arm?



For the love of God why are people so obsessed with benching Carlos Quentin?



I think it's the same people obsessed with trading Paul Konerko.

hi im skot
02-16-2008, 11:12 AM
Thank god pitchers and catchers report today.

broker3d
02-16-2008, 11:41 AM
I don't like the idea of giving up Broadway.

agreed!!! That's way too much for Lowry.

munchman33
02-16-2008, 11:51 AM
For the love of God why are people so obsessed with benching Carlos Quentin?

Because Swisher is too good not to play and he's not a good CF.

It's a big reason why I keep saying the Swisher deal made no sense. He doesn't fit because Quentin needs to play. We still need a CF. So when we get one, Quentin doesn't play, as Swisher switches to left.

voodoochile
02-16-2008, 12:00 PM
Because Swisher is too good not to play and he's not a good CF.

It's a big reason why I keep saying the Swisher deal made no sense. He doesn't fit because Quentin needs to play. We still need a CF. So when we get one, Quentin doesn't play, as Swisher switches to left.

:KW
"What's that munch? We still need a CF? Oh damn... Where were you 2 months ago when I was trading future HOF players for a guy I was sure could fill that role? I better get cracking if I'm gonna' fix that problem before the season starts. I'd say that we should hire you, but you've been so silent on this topic, that I had no idea I was wrong until just now. Damn you munchman, damn you to Hell..."

:deadhorse:

munchman33
02-16-2008, 12:24 PM
:KW
"What's that munch? We still need a CF? Oh damn... Where were you 2 months ago when I was trading future HOF players for a guy I was sure could fill that role? I better get cracking if I'm gonna' fix that problem before the season starts. I'd say that we should hire you, but you've been so silent on this topic, that I had no idea I was wrong until just now. Damn you munchman, damn you to Hell..."

:deadhorse:

I'm just worried about what's going to happen when Ozzie notices how inadequate Swisher is in center. Bumping Quentin is one thing. But putting Owens in center everyday could prove brutal to any hopes for playoffs we might have.

spawn
02-16-2008, 12:35 PM
:KW
"What's that munch? We still need a CF? Oh damn... Where were you 2 months ago when I was trading future HOF players for a guy I was sure could fill that role? I better get cracking if I'm gonna' fix that problem before the season starts. I'd say that we should hire you, but you've been so silent on this topic, that I had no idea I was wrong until just now. Damn you munchman, damn you to Hell..."

:deadhorse:

:rolling:

cards press box
02-16-2008, 12:43 PM
I don't like the idea of giving up Broadway.

Me neither.

Instead of trading Broadway, I'd trade MacDougal to open up room in the pen, to dump salary and a bum.

I agree with this, too. Broadway attacks hitters and throws strikes. MacDougal has great stuff (and, thus, some team will likely think they can turn him around) but he's wild and injury prone. I am confident that Broadway will be a major league starter -- maybe not a #1 or #2 but at least a middle of rotation guy.

chisox77
02-16-2008, 01:01 PM
Keep Lance Broadway.

A healthy Joe Crede may be enough to get a back end starter or a strong middle reliever.

If CF does not work out well (defensively with Swisher, though I doubt it) - Owens is a decent option, and Alexie Ramirez could figure as a possible solution.

Two players to watch: Broadway and Ramirez - they could figure heavily for the White Sox in 2008.



:cool:

jabrch
02-16-2008, 01:04 PM
I have less than zero interest in Coco Crisp. I'd much rather go with Owens or Swisher in CF than have to see Crisp at the plate, to give anything up for him, and to pay his salary.

Jjav829
02-16-2008, 02:46 PM
These aren't reports or anything I just heard bits and pieces from a few friends and these two trades actually.... made some sense? In fact, I think they both SHOULD go do if one of them were to happen. Why? Well here are the trades first of all...

1) Jose Contreras to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp
2) Joe Crede and pitching prospect(s) (most likely Lance Broadway) to the Giants for Noah Lowry

If we lose Jose, then we need a proven starter as we can't go into the season with 3 unproven/very young starters and would need someone reliable like Lowry.

I personally would love to see both these trades go down especially because of how much money we'd save on Contreras' contract. I'd be a lot happier with Buehrle (L)/Vasquez (R)/Lowry (L)/Danks (L)/Floyd (R) than our present rotation (whether you put Danks 4th or 5th you'll still have 2 lefties going back to back). Then you have a lineup of Crisp/Cabrera/Thome/Konerko/Swisher/Dye/Pierzynski/Fields/Richar or Uribe. I like the balance.

What do you guys think of the two trades?

#1 really doesn't make sense for either team.

The Red Sox have 5 better options than Contreras. The Sox need for Contreras to bounce back and be an effective pitcher to have a chance at the division.

#2 makes sense for the Giants, but I don't think the Sox would add in Broadway.

kaufsox
02-16-2008, 02:56 PM
For the love of God why are people so obsessed with benching Carlos Quentin?

Can you really bench a guy who hasn't really played? In two seasons with the Dbacks he didn't even get 400 AB. It seems pretty likely he has to win a job in the outfield, and that's not guaranteed. My guess is Dye RF, Owens CF Swisher LF, at least to start.

munchman33
02-16-2008, 02:59 PM
Keep Lance Broadway.

A healthy Joe Crede may be enough to get a back end starter or a strong middle reliever.


Yes but Joe Crede playing and playing well in spring training does not equal a "healthy" Joe Crede. It's a durability issue. When are you people going to realize that. He's only worth a minimal return with no initial injury problems. He'd have to play a full season with no problems to return his value to the proportions people here are talking.

gr8mexico
02-16-2008, 02:59 PM
What about sending Jose Contreras and Joe Crede to the Giants for pitching. The Sox might have to pick up some of Contreras contract to make that happend.

Jjav829
02-16-2008, 03:07 PM
What about sending Jose Contreras and Joe Crede to the Giants for pitching. The Sox might have to pick up some of Contreras contract to make that happend.

And what kind of pitching are you expecting to get out of this? Steve Kline?

Tragg
02-16-2008, 04:17 PM
These aren't reports or anything I just heard bits and pieces from a few friends and these two trades actually.... made some sense? In fact, I think they both SHOULD go do if one of them were to happen. Why? Well here are the trades first of all...

1) Jose Contreras to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp
2) Joe Crede and pitching prospect(s) (most likely Lance Broadway) to the Giants for Noah Lowry

If we lose Jose, then we need a proven starter as we can't go into the season with 3 unproven/very young starters and would need someone reliable like Lowry.

Lowry is reliably mediocre. We have to give up Crede and a prospect for a ceiling 5th starter? Giving up talent for mediocrity ensures mediocrity.

Why do we need a low obp low power hitter like Coco Crisp? We tried the slap hitters approach last year, and it was a disaster. He will also be the, what 6th outfielder we have?

Hopefully we will trade for good players.

The Thomenator
02-16-2008, 04:23 PM
In response to some people pumping up Quentin, what has her done to earn playing time. He very well could be Brian Anderson 2.0. I, on the other hand, am going to wait to see who gets the final outfield spot during spring training: Jerry Owens or Carlos Quentin. I trust Ozzie goes with whom he sees best fit to make this team as good as it can be. Let's all be patient. Both of these players are young to annoint them anything.

turners56
02-16-2008, 04:28 PM
If in some divine way we can get Crisp for the 50 year old Jose Contreras, I would epically lol.

But then we'd need another arm, so that trade doesn't help...unless we get Lowry.

Not happening...Lowry is a possibility, but giving up Broadway for him is a bit too much...MacDougal would be too little.

munchman33
02-16-2008, 05:20 PM
Lowry is reliably mediocre. We have to give up Crede and a prospect for a ceiling 5th starter? Giving up talent for mediocrity ensures mediocrity.


Currently we might have two guys in our rotation WORSE than mediocre.

steely712
02-16-2008, 05:56 PM
I would love for these to happen, but I really just don't think that these trades will ever happen. I just don't see the Red Sox wanting Jose, But if we can somehow get Lowery, that would be great. I do agree that we still need a lead of hitter though.

Soxfest
02-16-2008, 06:07 PM
I do not like Crede straight across for Lowry it is too much!

SoxNation05
02-16-2008, 06:35 PM
I am not to sure but I think the D-Backs are playing Reynolds at first? How about CRede and Broadway for
Micah Owings.

turners56
02-16-2008, 07:18 PM
I do not like Crede straight across for Lowry it is too much!

That's all you'll get for Crede and nothing more. Joe has a bad back and he's not far away from free agency. In fact, we'll be lucky to get Lowry.

munchman33
02-16-2008, 07:50 PM
I do not like Crede straight across for Lowry it is too much!

I agree. There's no way a rational general manager gives up a decent starting pitcher for a guy coming off back surgery.

cornball
02-16-2008, 08:46 PM
Can you really bench a guy who hasn't really played? In two seasons with the Dbacks he didn't even get 400 AB. It seems pretty likely he has to win a job in the outfield, and that's not guaranteed. My guess is Dye RF, Owens CF Swisher LF, at least to start.

When Carlos Quentin was aquired, I remember Ozzie stating he planned on platooning him for left field. If this is true, he would play mostly vs. lefty pitchers and you would see Ownes vs. righties....if things stay the way they are now. Just a thought.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-17-2008, 01:39 AM
Did someone really refer to Lowry as a "ceiling 5th starter"? are you talking about on an all-star team? Don't get me wrong he's not Johan Santana or Jake Peavy but the guy has been very successful. Yes, he does pitch in the National League and in a pitcher friendly ballpark, but he's been very solid overall.

Last season Lowry was 14-8 with a 3.92.
He sported a 3.87 ERA at home and a very close 3.97 on the road in almost the same exact amount of innings.
In 3 full seasons and very small parts of 2 others he is 40-31 with a 4.03 on what has recently been a bad Giants squad (in his 3 full seasons the Giants have gone 222-263).


And what's up with the Carlos Quentin love? I've never seen so many people on one guy's fan club with the guy having done NOTHING in the majors. Until he puts together at least one healthy, productive, impressive major league season, I will store Quentin in the same category as Joe Borchard, Ryan Sweeney, Brian Anderson, and Jerry Owens. Heard great things, seen very little. At least with BA we've seen a good sample and it's been horrible. Owens showed some life after his second call up.

munchman33
02-17-2008, 04:04 AM
And what's up with the Carlos Quentin love? I've never seen so many people on one guy's fan club with the guy having done NOTHING in the majors. Until he puts together at least one healthy, productive, impressive major league season, I will store Quentin in the same category as Joe Borchard, Ryan Sweeney, Brian Anderson, and Jerry Owens. Heard great things, seen very little. At least with BA we've seen a good sample and it's been horrible. Owens showed some life after his second call up.

I'm not even going to mention his talent, his swing, or his eye. I will ony point out that Quentin got an incredible amount of NATIONAL attention as a prospect. We've never really had anyone talked about that much nationally in our system, and it is incredibly unfair and shortsighted to mention him in the same breath as those other players. Because at their respective peaks as prospects, you could not have traded them all for Quentin at his peak. And Quentin lost value due to injury and a full Arizona outfield. Not because he started to suck.

russ99
02-17-2008, 10:55 AM
I'm not even going to mention his talent, his swing, or his eye. I will ony point out that Quentin got an incredible amount of NATIONAL attention as a prospect. We've never really had anyone talked about that much nationally in our system, and it is incredibly unfair and shortsighted to mention him in the same breath as those other players. Because at their respective peaks as prospects, you could not have traded them all for Quentin at his peak. And Quentin lost value due to injury and a full Arizona outfield. Not because he started to suck.

I think Quentin was held back a bit at Arizona and he should turn into a heck of an outfielder. Due to his injury, I think the Sox will go with Swish in LF and Owens in CF to start and work Quentin into the lineup when he's ready.

Long term, I think Kenny got Quentin to eventually replace Dye. Also, Owens will be given every shot to grab the leadoff role this spring, but if he can't cut it, Kenny will be active looking for a real CF. Swisher can handle it but he's much better suited to LF or 1B.

Sargeant79
02-17-2008, 04:11 PM
Did someone really refer to Lowry as a "ceiling 5th starter"? are you talking about on an all-star team? Don't get me wrong he's not Johan Santana or Jake Peavy but the guy has been very successful. Yes, he does pitch in the National League and in a pitcher friendly ballpark, but he's been very solid overall.

Last season Lowry was 14-8 with a 3.92.
He sported a 3.87 ERA at home and a very close 3.97 on the road in almost the same exact amount of innings.
In 3 full seasons and very small parts of 2 others he is 40-31 with a 4.03 on what has recently been a bad Giants squad (in his 3 full seasons the Giants have gone 222-263).




Lowry's K-BB Ratio last year was an atrocious 1:1 and he is coming off an arm injury. At 27, he still has some upside and may very well become a very solid mid-rotation guy if he cuts down on his walks. But as it stands now, he is a 5th starter on a good team who is just about as much an injury risk as Crede is.

SoxNation05
02-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Guys the Sox should go after who are somewhat expendable:
Howie Kendrick
Micah Owings
Ubaldo Jimeniez
Joey Votto
Ryan Freel
Orlando Hudson
Brian Roberts
Brandon Wood
Ian Snell
Jeremy Guthrie

Craig Grebeck
02-17-2008, 08:18 PM
Guys the Sox should go after who are somewhat expendable:
Howie Kendrick
Micah Owings
Ubaldo Jimeniez
Joey Votto
Ryan Freel
Orlando Hudson
Brian Roberts
Brandon Wood
Ian Snell
Jeremy Guthrie
Uhh...this is a joke, right? Aside from Ryan Freel, there is not a single guy on this list that any team would consider "expendable."

Frontman
02-17-2008, 08:22 PM
:KW
"What's that munch? We still need a CF? Oh damn... Where were you 2 months ago when I was trading future HOF players for a guy I was sure could fill that role? I better get cracking if I'm gonna' fix that problem before the season starts. I'd say that we should hire you, but you've been so silent on this topic, that I had no idea I was wrong until just now. Damn you munchman, damn you to Hell..."

:deadhorse:


POTW.

munchman33
02-17-2008, 08:28 PM
I think Quentin was held back a bit at Arizona and he should turn into a heck of an outfielder. Due to his injury, I think the Sox will go with Swish in LF and Owens in CF to start and work Quentin into the lineup when he's ready.

Long term, I think Kenny got Quentin to eventually replace Dye. Also, Owens will be given every shot to grab the leadoff role this spring, but if he can't cut it, Kenny will be active looking for a real CF. Swisher can handle it but he's much better suited to LF or 1B.

That's pretty spot on.

SoxNation05
02-17-2008, 08:53 PM
Guys the Sox should go after who are somewhat expendable:
Howie Kendrick
Micah Owings
Ubaldo Jimeniez
Joey Votto
Ryan Freel
Orlando Hudson
Brian Roberts
Brandon Wood
Ian Snell
Jeremy Guthrie
Bold= in rumors
underlined=1 yr deals
The other three I just covet.

Craig Grebeck
02-17-2008, 09:17 PM
Bold= in rumors
underlined=1 yr deals
The other three I just covet.
Well let's go down the list.

Howie Kendrick was supposedly dropped in some Konerko rumors - all of which came out to nothing. Because he was thought to be available does not make the guy expendable.

Micah Owings - link me. No idea where you got that idea that he was in rumors.

Ryan Freel is almost 32 and not good. At all.

Orlando Hudson is on a one year deal, but even if he is "expendable", would you really want to play him over Richar? Then you gave up Aaron Cunningham for absolutely nothing.

Same goes for Roberts. We'll see how he plays without PED.

Brandon Wood sucks.

Ian Snell was thought to MAYBE be available for Adam Jones. Maybe we could send them Swisher - but that would be absolutely pointless. Not expendable.

SoxNation05
02-17-2008, 09:56 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95262
Micah Owings

PalehosePlanet
02-17-2008, 10:33 PM
Guys the Sox should go after who are somewhat expendable:
Howie Kendrick
Micah Owings
Ubaldo Jimeniez
Joey Votto
Ryan Freel
Orlando Hudson
Brian Roberts
Brandon Wood
Ian Snell
Jeremy Guthrie

I'd absolutely love Ian Snell, but the price would be Josh Fields and maybe more. I don't want to be stuck with Morgan Ensberg (or the like) as our 3B in '09 so I wouldn't do it.

I wonder what Billy Beane wants for Joe Blanton. He's shown that he's willing to take A ball talent. Anyway, it would probably cost us Danks and Poreda; probably not woth it.

Craig Grebeck
02-17-2008, 11:36 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95262
Micah Owings
Oh please. That's about as credible as Phil Rogers.

rdivaldi
02-17-2008, 11:54 PM
Brandon Wood sucks.

:?:

At what, being bad?

SoxNation05
02-18-2008, 12:10 AM
:?:

At what, being bad?
Yea really. I hate versital, major league prospects. Don't you Greback?

Craig Grebeck
02-18-2008, 12:33 AM
Sorry guys, I'm not too keen on prospects that decline at each level. Brandon Wood is not versatile and, in my opinion, he is not all that he is cracked up to be. Perhaps sucks is too strong of a word - but I don't see Wood making any impact in MLB.

rdivaldi
02-18-2008, 01:16 AM
Sorry guys, I'm not too keen on prospects that decline at each level. Brandon Wood is not versatile and, in my opinion, he is not all that he is cracked up to be. Perhaps sucks is too strong of a word - but I don't see Wood making any impact in MLB.

Well, he is just a prospect so you could be 100% right about his never making it in the bigs. I give his numbers a bump as he is has been one of the youngest players at every level.

Mohoney
02-18-2008, 01:24 PM
I was hoping somebody could clear something up for me. Is Carlos Quentin going to miss all of Spring Training plus significant time at the beginning of the regular season?

I seem to remember hearing that from some posters here as well as other places, but my memory can't be trusted. Maybe somebody in the know can give a definitive answer on this.

If Quentin isn't going to be ready until June, I wouldn't mind getting Crisp.

rdivaldi
02-18-2008, 02:18 PM
I was hoping somebody could clear something up for me. Is Carlos Quentin going to miss all of Spring Training plus significant time at the beginning of the regular season?

Unless something has changed, he was supposed to be ready for action at the beginning of ST.

Tragg
02-18-2008, 09:25 PM
Did someone really refer to Lowry as a "ceiling 5th starter"? are you talking about on an all-star team? Don't get me wrong he's not Johan Santana or Jake Peavy but the guy has been very successful. Yes, he does pitch in the National League and in a pitcher friendly ballpark, but he's been very solid overall.

Last season Lowry was 14-8 with a 3.92.
He sported a 3.87 ERA at home and a very close 3.97 on the road in almost the same exact amount of innings.
In 3 full seasons and very small parts of 2 others he is 40-31 with a 4.03 on what has recently been a bad Giants squad (in his 3 full seasons the Giants have gone 222-263).
. 4 ERA in a NL pitchers park. What do you think those numbers are, if not solid 5th starter numbers? You can also add his 1.38 WHIP, also worthy of 5th starter nod.

If we had 3 aces, I'd take a ceiling 5th starter. But we don't have 3 aces; so trading for mediocrity is a bad idea, imo. We won't win anything, loading up with average players.

I can't wait to see Quentin play. He's an exciting prospect, with a lot of upside. Dye- Swisher-Quenten could be a dynamite offensive outfield.

spiffie
02-18-2008, 10:10 PM
4 ERA in a NL pitchers park. What do you think those numbers are, if not solid 5th starter numbers? You can also add his 1.38 WHIP, also worthy of 5th starter nod.

If we had 3 aces, I'd take a ceiling 5th starter. But we don't have 3 aces; so trading for mediocrity is a bad idea, imo. We won't win anything, loading up with average players.

AL 5th starters last year: ERA/WHIP/IP
Sox - Danks 5.50/1.54/139.0
Indians - Lee 6.29/1.54/97.33
Tigers - Maroth 5.06/1.66/78.33
Twins - Garza 3.69/1.54/83.0
Royals - Davies 6.66/1.78/50.0
Red Sox - Tavarez 5.15/1.50/134.67
Yankees - Hughes 4.46/1.28/72.67
Blue Jays - Towers 5.38/1.41/107
Orioles - Olson 7.79/2.17/32.3
D-Rays - Hammel - 6.14/1.65/85.0
Angels - Colon - 6.34/1.62/99.3
Mariners - Ramirez 7.16/1.85/98.0
A's - Kennedy 4.37/1.55/101.0
Rangers - Tejeda 6.61/1.78/95.3

Just because there seems to be some confusion about what exactly a fifth starter is these days. Its one of those problematic terms, like "career middle reliever." :wink: