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KempersRS
08-02-2001, 02:04 AM
Ok, we gotta do something about Canseco. I will admit right off the bat I wasn't excited about him and didn't really want him in the lineup. He is hitting pretty well so far, but what do we do?? Thomas will be DHing full time next year, there is just no place to put Canseco. Thomas at first is trouble to begin with, even if that is what you want to do, Konerko and possibly Liefer are both gone. Who knows if Canseco can keep it up, but if he does, we have a tough decision on our hands. My initial thought was to deal him, but we'd get shafted big time in a trade. I don't think his market value is very high, plus KW is a moron. What to do...

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2001, 02:13 AM
Given that Thomas won't be back till 2002, let Canseco DH for the remainder of 2001. It's not like he's taking anyone else's job during that period.

Besides, this team is crawling with DH candidates. There isn't one of them that will get the chance to DH next year when Frank is back.

For example, Jeff Liefer had better prove he can hit and play well enough to play 1B, 3B, or OF or else he is doomed to ride the bench. It's nonsense to think he'll ever be the Sox DH.

All the other all-hit/can't-field wannabes need to be kept out of the DH spot, too. It belongs to Frank. Jose is just keeping his spot warm.

Jose costs us nothing but a pro-rated share of the major league minimum. He can walk in October and cost us nothing.

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 02:15 AM
It all depends on how he does the rest of the year and if Thomas is going to be 100% at the start of spring training.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2001, 02:20 AM
Let me go on the record now and say there is no way I want Jose Canseco on the team for the 2002 season. He was a no-risk addition to the team when Frank got hurt and Baines sucked.

Also, Frank really needs to stop thinking he can be the GM. If he wants protection in the line up, he had better get used to it coming from Maggs and El Caballo--not Canseco. Frank was also the genius who told Reinsdorf he wanted Albert Belle.

Frank is an awesome player but he truly has a ten-cent head.

Chisox_cali
08-02-2001, 02:21 AM
But are we really sure he'll make a full recovery, from that thing i read on the sox website its a pretty f'd up injury he couldnt even lift his arm to touch his head until recently if he cant comeback until like a month or so into the season Jose could definitly fill the spot until hes fully recovered

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 02:24 AM
Let me go on the record now and say there is no way I want Jose Canseco on the team for the 2002 season. He was a no-risk addition to the team when Frank got hurt and Baines sucked.

Whoa! Not saying that I disagree but Canseco did more tonight then Baines did last year.

Also, Frank really needs to stop thinking he can be the GM. If he wants protection in the line up, he had better get used to it coming from Maggs and El Caballo--not Canseco. Frank was also the genius who told Reinsdorf he wanted Albert Belle. Frank is an awesome player but he truly has a ten-cent head.

If Belle wasn't such a dick off the field would he really have been that bad? PHG if Frank is a 10 cent said what is Williams?

KempersRS
08-02-2001, 02:27 AM
Let me go on the record now and say there is no way I want Jose Canseco on the team for the 2002 season. He was a no-risk addition to the team when Frank got hurt and Baines sucked.

PHG, I was there to say that very same thing, I am sure it is archived somewhere. BUT what if Canseco finishes hitting .300 + with 20 + homers? I don't think he has many years left, but maybe next year he could still have a very productive year. I wouldn't be very upset if we just let him go, because I understand that decision fully, just no place for him.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2001, 02:28 AM
Belle NEVER did anything for the Sox when the games counted. That second-half he had in 1998 was unbelievable, but the games were meaningless. We spent $55 million on him when it was pitching we needed. We could have gotten Roger Clemens for the same $20 million spent on Navarro. It was not a good time to be a Sox Fan!

What scares me about Frank's 10 cent head is that KW might be dumb enough to listen to it!

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 02:31 AM
Belle NEVER did anything for the Sox when the games counted. That second-half he had in 1998 was unbelievable, but the games were meaningless. We spent $55 million on him when it was pitching we needed. We could have gotten Roger Clemens for the same $20 million spent on Navarro. It was not a good time to be a Sox Fan!

I would agree with that! Didn't Schu say Clemens was done or damaged goods or something like that?

What scares me about Frank's 10 cent head is that KW might be dumb enough to listen to it!

Yes that is truly a meeting of the minds isn't it?

ode to veeck
08-02-2001, 10:05 AM
I have to break with the rest of the crowd on this one.
Liefer's not worth exploration as a starter to find out if you can get a different answer. We know he's a lifer in 260 BA range.

Canseco's much better value as DH, but nearly impossible to use anywhere else, could play RF if absolutely had to.

He's doing better than several with the roster spot he's got at the moment. He's mellowed from his younger days, but still is a little mouthy (gripes about regular play), but frankly I think he's grateful to be playing in the show at this point.

He's a classic power hitter, and the Ks come along with that, but not a bad fit for back-up DH role, even after Frank returns. Compared to Harold, even at last year's stats, he might be worth keeping even next year if (1) he can mentally adjust to this role (I think he can, given his alternatives, I think part of his mouthing was due to the fact it was so obvious he should get more starts with Frank out), and (2) the Sox remain committed to a formula of high powered offense (e.g. 2000 team), in this case, Jose's a good match to this formula as back-up DH to keep the lineup loaded--if we had a spot for Harold in this role, certainly a Canseco maintaining his conditioning and stats is just as good or better as last two years (not '01) version of Baines (sorry Harold)

What's the tradeoff? less diversity in the back-up roster spots obviously, and if the Sox had a surplus of high OBA contact hitters maybe with speed in their other utlility slots, I'd say don't keep Canseco, but since they're short on hitting (sorry Liefer, you're headed for lifetime .260 ish BA) and if I were GM, I'd have a frank sit down with Jose at the end of the season and pitch him the opportunity to extend his career in a major market that's a good match to his background, persona, etc. In his later careeer Jose's demonstrated more class and professionalism than his younger days, and frankly it doesn't hurt help getting folks out to the park to have another famous Jose on the bench.

As long as we've got players coming up to replace the weaker OBA types inthe lineup AND in the utlility roles, guys like Royce and Singleton (sorry corky) are best worth dropping (again make moves that support your win formula-will you ever get it KW?)That means eat Manos fielding (not that most of us think that's a wash anyway) and have him at SS every day (duh KW, JM).

Canseco'll be lucky to have a roster spot somewhere else next year, and until we've got an excess of hitting on the bench and in the lineup, I'd make him DH#2.

Tragg
08-02-2001, 10:09 AM
To me, the value of conseco is that perhaps we could trade him (waive him) for some value. He's cheap this season and he won't be here next season anyway.

KempersRS
08-02-2001, 11:19 AM
He's a classic power hitter, and the Ks come along with that, but not a bad fit for back-up DH role, even after Frank returns. Compared to Harold, even at last year's stats, he might be worth keeping even next year if (1) he can mentally adjust to this role (I think he can, given his alternatives, I think part of his mouthing was due to the fact it was so obvious he should get more starts with Frank out), and (2) the Sox remain committed to a formula of high powered offense (e.g. 2000 team), in this case, Jose's a good match to this formula as back-up DH to keep the lineup loaded--if we had a spot for Harold in this role, certainly a Canseco maintaining his conditioning and stats is just as good or better as last two years (not '01) version of Baines (sorry Harold)

I'd be all for having Canseco as a great power off the bench and an occaisional start, but he has made it clear he wants to start. I really don't think he'll stick around with Thomas coming back. I don't think it'll be a huge loss in the long run for us.

voodoochile
08-02-2001, 12:01 PM
Nobody carries a backup DH, unless he is a fan favorite, has a crack at the hall and the team is looking to generate some goodwill with him and the fans...

Canseco should not be back with the team next year. If Frank cannot return for opening day, then maybe Carlos does a DH thing and Rowand plays left...

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 12:04 PM
Nobody carries a backup DH, unless he is a fan favorite, has a crack at the hall and the team is looking to generate some goodwill with him and the fans...

Sounds like:

:reinsy&:harold

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 12:06 PM
Canseco should not be back with the team next year. If Frank cannot return for opening day, then maybe Carlos does a DH thing and Rowand plays left...

I would hope Rowand would be starting in center. But if Frank is not ready to start the year then you could play Rowand in left for a while and I gues Singleton in center if he is still with the team.

voodoochile
08-02-2001, 12:11 PM
I would hope Rowand would be starting in center. But if Frank is not ready to start the year then you could play Rowand in left for a while and I gues Singleton in center if he is still with the team.

I agree to an extent. I'm still not sold on Rowand as an everyday player. He has some skills, but I for one am hoping the Sox will go get a real CF who can maybe leadoff... Probably won't be able to afford one, but a guy can dream can't he?

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 12:15 PM
I agree to an extent. I'm still not sold on Rowand as an everyday player. He has some skills, but I for one am hoping the Sox will go get a real CF who can maybe leadoff... Probably won't be able to afford one, but a guy can dream can't he?

Well this is the time to find out right?
Not waste time playing Singleton.
Yes a guy can dream.