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View Full Version : Cowley on Possible Tucson Swan Song


Viva Medias B's
02-11-2008, 08:46 AM
Joe Cowley talks about the details and current status of the Sox' desire to move to Glendale (nothing really new). He then provides examples of things to do in Tucson.

Link (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/787235,CST-SPT-sox11.article)

Fenway
02-11-2008, 09:39 AM
Looks like they not going anywhere for awhile.

Indians and Reds both turned down Tucson and nobody else wants to move there.

Baltimore has decided to move to Vero Beach to replace the Dodgers.

White Sox have to find a team to move there to replace them and there is nobody left.

russ99
02-11-2008, 11:36 AM
Looks like they not going anywhere for awhile.

Indians and Reds both turned down Tucson and nobody else wants to move there.

Baltimore has decided to move to Vero Beach to replace the Dodgers.

White Sox have to find a team to move there to replace them and there is nobody left.

The Reds and Indians turned them down for the same reason the Sox don't want to be there. It's the park for the home team Diamondbacks, and any other team would be second fiddle for scheduling, amenities, etc. Plus, it's not an especially good park for the players.

I don't see why Tuscon Electric Park needs two teams anyway, other than added revenue. Lots of other Arizona parks have only one team, plus they have Arizona's AAA team playing there all season and are not a spring park exclusively.

Too bad, it looks like the Sox will have to honor their lease, unless they can somehow set up a buyout. The Sox certainly don't want the Dodgers to go into Glendale by themselves for a few years after putting up a bunch of money for it.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 11:55 AM
I was at Ed Smith Stadium in Sarasota the day it opened ( either 1988 or 1989 ) The stadium was not really ready and I remember we had to trudge in mud down to the White Sox media office to get our credentials. The WS media guy was a young man named Dana then and he was saying we will be here for the next 30 years..what a beautiful stadium.

Last November Sarasota voters turned down a proposal to build a new stadium for the Reds by less than 200 votes so the Reds are now talking to a city in Arizona that has already locked up the Indians.

The Reds put the screws to the city that gave them everything in the late 80's a little town east of Tampa called Plant City. It was a beautiful ballpark but when the White Sox bailed out of Sarasota the Reds rushed right in.

Winter Haven is not even going to try and replace the Indians and Chain O Lakes park will be demolished after this spring training.

Funny thing is the White Sox have never matched the crowds they drew in Sarasota in Tuscon and left many bitter White Sox fans behind who had built retirement homes there. I have been told that JR made the move because he felt since the media was swarming to Arizona to cover the Cubs it made sense to move to Arizona.

Now the Red Sox want Ft Myers to build them a new park to replace the one built in 1993.....it is nuts.

Viva Medias B's
02-11-2008, 07:01 PM
Looks like they not going anywhere for awhile.

Indians and Reds both turned down Tucson and nobody else wants to move there.

Baltimore has decided to move to Vero Beach to replace the Dodgers.

White Sox have to find a team to move there to replace them and there is nobody left.

Is that official? If so, that leaves Ft. Lauderdale and South Florida proper without a ST team.

Tragg
02-11-2008, 07:23 PM
I never had any idea why the Sox moved....but I always thought it bizarre to move to a place that you know you will play 2nd fiddle.
Weren't the Indians in the cactus league?

Fenway
02-11-2008, 07:32 PM
Is that official? If so, that leaves Ft. Lauderdale and South Florida proper without a ST team.

Vero Beach says the deal is done. Ft Lauderdale admits the problem is there is nobody else close by for the Orioles to play.

The Rays move next year to the former Texas complex in Port Charlotte which will help the Twins and Boston who were all alone in SW Florida.

Amazing that 15 years ago the Cactus League appeared dead in the water. Now it will have 15 teams the same as Florida.

Viva Medias B's
02-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Vero Beach says the deal is done. Ft Lauderdale admits the problem is there is nobody else close by for the Orioles to play.

The Rays move next year to the former Texas complex in Port Charlotte which will help the Twins and Boston who were all alone in SW Florida.

Amazing that 15 years ago the Cactus League appeared dead in the water. Now it will have 15 teams the same as Florida.


So if the Orioles leave Ft. Lauderdale, could it mean the end of both Ft. Lauderdale Stadium and neighbor Lockhart Stadium?

Fenway
02-11-2008, 07:58 PM
So if the Orioles leave Ft. Lauderdale, could it mean the end of both Ft. Lauderdale Stadium and neighbor Lockhart Stadium?

I don't know.

I used to love ST. Winter Haven you had access to the players and everyone had a blast. The town was so small there were only 3 places to go. Ft Myers is awful. The minor league complex is 3 miles from the main park in a crack neighborhood. Traffic on 41 is awful.
Theo keeps saying only 5 more years then we out of here.

My guess is they looking at Sarasota where they trained for years after WWII

Lip Man 1
02-11-2008, 09:07 PM
I wish the Sox would return to Florida where they belong and where they had a base of operations for decades. (Payne Park) Plus it is almost impossible to gauge a pitcher in the thin air, hard fields and winds of Arizona.

Lip

Fenway
02-11-2008, 09:15 PM
I wish the Sox would return to Florida where they belong and where they had a base of operations for decades. (Payne Park) Plus it is almost impossible to gauge a pitcher in the thin air, hard fields and winds of Arizona.

Lip

Lip

The White Sox grabbed Payne Park when Tom Yawkey decided to train in Scottsdale starting in 1959. The local lore is Yawkey was sick of Williams fishing all the time and figured Arizona would solve the problem.

Of course in those days Boston stunk and nobody went to Arizona so after 6 years in Scottsdale they moved to Winter Haven.

michned
02-11-2008, 09:29 PM
I never had any idea why the Sox moved....but I always thought it bizarre to move to a place that you know you will play 2nd fiddle.
Weren't the Indians in the cactus league?

Honestly, I don't think they are playing second fiddle. I have no idea about clubhouse size and amenities but I would be surprised if the two clubhouses were vastly different. As for the complex itself, I believe the Sox had major input in regards to their facilities.

But as for advertising and scheduling, everything's always appeared to be fairly equal, especially the advertising.

I know at the time they moved the reasons given were that Jerry has a home in Paradise Valley and that Midwesterners generally migrate to the southwest, whereas Easterners migrate to the southeast.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 09:46 PM
Honestly, I don't think they are playing second fiddle. I have no idea about clubhouse size and amenities but I would be surprised if the two clubhouses were vastly different. As for the complex itself, I believe the Sox had major input in regards to their facilities.

But as for advertising and scheduling, everything's always appeared to be fairly equal, especially the advertising.

I know at the time they moved the reasons given were that Jerry has a home in Paradise Valley and that Midwesterners generally migrate to the southwest, whereas Easterners migrate to the southeast.

Tell that to all the White Sox fans who retired to Sarasota. There are a lot of Chicago folk in the Tampa area as well.

The team drew well in Florida and Ed Smith was a fine facility. Who knows why they moved. Maybe Hawk wanted to golf in Arizona for a change being sick of Florida courses.

I know one thing. In Glendale they WILL BE second fiddle to the Dodgers.

Sockinchisox
02-11-2008, 11:19 PM
This is a good article concerning the spring training situation.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/sports/76666.php

michned
02-11-2008, 11:40 PM
"Nothing has changed," Reifert said. "We have every intention to honor our commitment in Tucson until 2012 unless we find an acceptable team or a solution."The "solution" being the city of Glendale coming up with four years worth of rent payments to pay off the last four years of the lease.

michned
02-11-2008, 11:45 PM
Tell that to all the White Sox fans who retired to Sarasota. There are a lot of Chicago folk in the Tampa area as well.

I don't doubt that for a second, but this state is crawling with former Midwesterners.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 11:48 PM
The NY Times looks at the ST picture

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/sports/baseball/10chass.html?ref=baseball

TDog
02-12-2008, 02:11 AM
....

Amazing that 15 years ago the Cactus League appeared dead in the water. Now it will have 15 teams the same as Florida.

No kidding. The Grapefruit League now seems more at risk than the Cactus League. The Indians deserted Tucson for Florida, and there was some serious concern in Arizona government that the Cactus League would become history. The state responded by providing financial incentives to attract new teams. Expansion helped, because two 1990s expansion teams went to Tucson, but the Cactus League is different than it used to be.

Yuma and Casa Grande don't have teams any more. The Angels don't play their exhibition games in Palm Springs. (When Bill Melton played for the Angels, the team trained in Holtville, Califl, before going up to Palm Springs for their exhibition games.) Except for the teams training in Tucson, everything is in metro Phoenix, with the new complexes being built for teams to share. It's now possible to see your team train in the Cactus League without even seeing the real Arizona.

Steelrod
02-12-2008, 06:57 AM
No kidding. The Grapefruit League now seems more at risk than the Cactus League. The Indians deserted Tucson for Florida, and there was some serious concern in Arizona government that the Cactus League would become history. The state responded by providing financial incentives to attract new teams. Expansion helped, because two 1990s expansion teams went to Tucson, but the Cactus League is different than it used to be.

Yuma and Casa Grande don't have teams any more. The Angels don't play their exhibition games in Palm Springs. (When Bill Melton played for the Angels, the team trained in Holtville, Califl, before going up to Palm Springs for their exhibition games.) Except for the teams training in Tucson, everything is in metro Phoenix, with the new complexes being built for teams to share. It's now possible to see your team train in the Cactus League without even seeing the real Arizona.
You mean the snakes, javelinas, and scorpions?

Viva Medias B's
02-12-2008, 07:47 AM
The "solution" being the city of Glendale coming up with four years worth of rent payments to pay off the last four years of the lease.

And you can bet that Pima County will hold the White Sox to every penny of that lease.

Viva Medias B's
02-12-2008, 07:51 AM
You mean the snakes, javelinas, and scorpions?

No, Metro Tucson which is a better sight than Metro Phoenix ─ easily.

AZChiSoxFan
02-12-2008, 10:53 AM
No, Metro Tucson which is a better sight than Metro Phoenix ─ easily.

:rolleyes:

Here we go again.

Chicken Dinner
02-12-2008, 01:14 PM
Pima county and the city of Tucson are a bunch of whiners. :whiner: They won't help the Rockies out and all they do is cry about the White Sox leaving. I-10 has been torn up for the last 2 years and still has a couple to go before it's finished. When the Sox players have to rent a helicopter to get back there instead of spending hours on the bus, there's a problem. Looks like when the new Glendale stadium opens there will be quite a few split squad games. :D:

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/local/69114.php

TDog
02-12-2008, 01:55 PM
I was on I-10 a few weeks ago. There are a few exits closed on the north side of Tucson. For people driving from Phoenix to Tucson in March, the construction should be a minor en-route inconvenience if they are going to be going to the ballpark on the south side of Tucson. Tucson does have some problems with traffic congestion, but even with the construction it isn't as bad as the traffic congestion in Phoenix.

If the White Sox are looking for a home where they won't be playing second fiddle to a more popular team, they won't find it in Arizona. They probably wouldn't find it in Florida, which hasn't treated the Indians very well. The Dodgers will be big team on the west side of Phoenix. The Cubs will be the big team on the east side of Phoenix.

It used to be that you would drive into Tucson on Miracle Mile and you were greeted with a sign welcoming you to the spring home of the Cleveland Indians, as in Yuma you were informed on Highway 95 that you were entering the spring home of the San Diego Padres. You still have civic groups that "host" the spring training teams the way the Caballeros de Yuma used to treat the Padres like guests (I have a friend who while in high school drove Ozzie Guillen around town when he was a minor leaguer), but the community spirit is gone.

When Yuma lost the Padres, the disappointment wasn't about the loss of revenues. It was about losing our major league team.

Fenway
02-12-2008, 02:17 PM
If the White Sox are looking for a home where they won't be playing second fiddle to a more popular team, they won't find it in Arizona. They probably wouldn't find it in Florida, which hasn't treated the Indians very well. The Dodgers will be big team on the west side of Phoenix. The Cubs will be the big team on the east side of Phoenix.




No it was the other way around. The Indians *****ed and moaned about Winter Haven from the day they arrived in 1993. They never wanted to be there but Hurricaine Andrew destroyed their new home in Homestead.

Yet the Indians did something unforgivable. They told Homestead they wanted to return and the stadium was rebuilt and only then did the Indians say...nah we will stay up here near Disney World.

Homestead sits empty waiting for the team that never came.

http://www.cityofhomestead.com/portal-recreation/parks-facilities.aspx

Viva Medias B's
02-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Pima county and the city of Tucson are a bunch of whiners. :whiner: They won't help the Rockies out and all they do is cry about the White Sox leaving. I-10 has been torn up for the last 2 years and still has a couple to go before it's finished. When the Sox players have to rent a helicopter to get back there instead of spending hours on the bus, there's a problem. Looks like when the new Glendale stadium opens there will be quite a few split squad games. :D:

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/local/69114.php

Actually, there is talk of the Rockies, City of Tucson, and University of Arizona coming together to renovate Hi Corbett Field. Part of this would involve moving the UA baseball team to Hi Corbett from Jerry Kindall Field at Frank Sancet Stadium on the UA campus. This is nowhere near getting off the ground at this point, but it is a possibility for down the road.

Link (http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/224350)

TDog
02-12-2008, 02:49 PM
No it was the other way around. The Indians *****ed and moaned about Winter Haven from the day they arrived in 1993. ...


I was including the hurricane as being part of the way the Indians were treated in Florida. The fatal boating accident didn't help matters. All things considered, the Indians would have been better off staying in Tucson and eventually pairing up with the Diamondbacks. The Indians have treated Florida like crap, of course, worse than the White Sox are treating Tucson, worse than most teams treat their spring-training sites.

AZChiSoxFan
02-13-2008, 05:52 PM
Actually, there is talk of the Rockies, City of Tucson, and University of Arizona coming together to renovate Hi Corbett Field. Part of this would involve moving the UA baseball team to Hi Corbett from Jerry Kindall Field at Frank Sancet Stadium on the UA campus. This is nowhere near getting off the ground at this point, but it is a possibility for down the road.

Link (http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/224350)

Well, I think you know Viva that I like it when UA does stupid things, but this would be really stupid for your 'Cats. Be it football, hoops, or baseball, on campus stadiums just can't be beat in college athletics.