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View Full Version : Royals lobbying to move to NL Central?


Fenway
02-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Bill Madden from the NY Daily News was on WEEI's baseball show Sunday morning and said something in passing that I found interesting.

The Royals who turned down the chance to move to the NL a decade ago have reconsidered things and have asked Bud about changing leagues. They cite being between St Louis and Denver as being a reason and would love being in the same division as the Cards.

Now Madden claims the Brewers would not mind coming back to the AL. The Brewers ownership has discovered that many fans miss the AL and that was brought home last April when the Indians drew very well on short notice when games were moved to Milwaukee. They have also found that Brewers fans resent Miller Park becoming Wrigley North when the Cubs play there.

On the surface it seems like a win win for everybody.

102605
02-10-2008, 12:28 PM
Interesting. Although it would make the AL Central even more competitive.

getonbckthr
02-10-2008, 12:29 PM
Naturally the Brewers have an army of young good talent, Kansas City is well Kansas City and we wanna put the Brew-Crew in the toughest division and the Royals in the easiest. It would work out great for Boston and NYY. 5 teams in the AL central to beat each other up with. Cubs even better they get the Royals to fight with Pittsburgh and Cincy at the bottom.

FedEx227
02-10-2008, 12:35 PM
I'd love that. Competition breeds great teams, bring the Brewers in and lets have 5 great team battle it out year to year. Also wouldn't be bad to go up to Milwaukee 10 times a year to catch some Sox games.

sox1970
02-10-2008, 12:36 PM
At some point, MLB will sell out completely, and the Cubs, Sox, Brewers, and Cardinals will all be in the same division.

Crede_Fan
02-10-2008, 12:37 PM
I'd love that. Competition breeds great teams, bring the Brewers in and lets have 5 great team battle it out year to year. Also wouldn't be bad to go up to Milwaukee 10 times a year to catch some Sox games.


I agree. The Brewers always seem to have some nice young talent that I wouldn't mind getting to watch more often.

DumpJerry
02-10-2008, 12:47 PM
Should it happen, the Royals and their fan(s) can finally look forward to the World Series.

goon
02-10-2008, 01:02 PM
At some point, MLB will sell out completely, and the Cubs, Sox, Brewers, and Cardinals will all be in the same division.

The Sox have been an AL team for 107 years, I don't see that changing in our lifetime.

soxfanreggie
02-10-2008, 01:05 PM
I don't think this should be allowed unless the Royals are requied to "make a commitment" to bettering themselves. This doesn't have to be publicized, but you're essentially making it a LOT easier for the Cards, Cubs, or Astros to win the division and not have to go against the resurgent Brewers. Granted they have 6 teams in their division, but is that a bad thing when 3 of the teams would be the Pirates, Reds, AND Royals? That would likely mean more games against sub-par competition.

asindc
02-10-2008, 01:06 PM
At some point, MLB will sell out completely, and the Cubs, Sox, Brewers, and Cardinals will all be in the same division.

I see no reason why MLB would want the two Chicago teams, or the two NY or LA teams for that matter, in the same league.

sox1970
02-10-2008, 01:11 PM
I see no reason why MLB would want the two Chicago teams, or the two NY or LA teams for that matter, in the same league.

I hope not, but nothing would surprise me. Can you imagine how bad ESPN would become if there was one division with Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Nationals, Orioles, and Phillies...yikes.

Fenway
02-10-2008, 01:36 PM
Just mulling over the impact of putting fannies in seats.

For KC they would get big crowds for St. Louis and maybe the Cubs. That would offset losing Boston and NYY

For Milwaukee...yes they would lose the Cubs but would get Boston, NYY and the White Sox ( plus Twins )

The idea has merit.

oeo
02-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Afterwards, they should send the NL Central to AAA.

DumpJerry
02-10-2008, 01:38 PM
Just mulling over the impact of putting fannies in seats.

For KC they would get big crowds for St. Louis and maybe the Cubs. That would offset losing Boston and NYY

For Milwaukee...yes they would lose the Cubs but would get Boston, NYY and the White Sox ( plus Twins )

The idea has merit.
Sox fans used to go to Milwaukee County Stadium all the time to see the Sox play the Brew Crew. You just had to remember to take enough $$ to make bail.

SaltyPretzel
02-10-2008, 02:10 PM
So you mean Brewers fans don't enjoy this?:

V1MJ-ta0S24

or this?:


m0bRNfguLFE&feature=related
Mod edit: Language warning on the videos.

bryPt
02-10-2008, 02:43 PM
my 2 favorite baseball teams in the same division? Hmmmmm????

areilly
02-10-2008, 02:45 PM
I'd love that. Competition breeds great teams, bring the Brewers in and lets have 5 great team battle it out year to year. Also wouldn't be bad to go up to Milwaukee 10 times a year to catch some Sox games.

Agreed. I love that park and I love that city, so any excuse to go up there more often would be very welcome.

RedHeadPaleHoser
02-10-2008, 02:51 PM
I'd love that. Competition breeds great teams, bring the Brewers in and lets have 5 great team battle it out year to year. Also wouldn't be bad to go up to Milwaukee 10 times a year to catch some Sox games.

I loved road trips to County Stadium. I saw Miller Park before the AST and loved the new place, but haven't been there since.

I say we give the Royals, get the Brewers.

SoxNation05
02-10-2008, 02:52 PM
I would welcome the idea as long as we send the Indians or Twins over there. We need the Royals and I don't see the Tigers moving.

btrain929
02-10-2008, 02:53 PM
I don't think this should be allowed unless the Royals are requied to "make a commitment" to bettering themselves. This doesn't have to be publicized, but you're essentially making it a LOT easier for the Cards, Cubs, or Astros to win the division and not have to go against the resurgent Brewers. Granted they have 6 teams in their division, but is that a bad thing when 3 of the teams would be the Pirates, Reds, AND Royals? That would likely mean more games against sub-par competition.

While I agree they won't be favorites of the NL Central, I don't think the Reds will be that bad this year. The combination of their stud young players (Bruce, Bailey, Volquez, Cuetto) and Cordero in their bullpen should make them more competitive than previous years.

batmanZoSo
02-10-2008, 03:02 PM
The NLC already has 6 teams and the NL has two more teams. I say put KC in the ALW and move Milwaukee to the ALC. Even divisions, even leagues, great Sox/Brewers rivalry.

Fenway
02-10-2008, 03:02 PM
The NLC already has 6 teams and the NL has two more teams. I say put KC in the ALW and move Milwaukee to the ALC. Even divisions, even leagues, great Sox/Brewers rivalry.


Won't happen because then you would have interleague every day

Fenway
02-10-2008, 03:03 PM
The Sox have been an AL team for 107 years, I don't see that changing in our lifetime.


I am not sure the AL and NL will exist 5 years from now.

batmanZoSo
02-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Won't happen because then you would have interleague every day

I don't follow.

Dan Mega
02-10-2008, 03:07 PM
How would it be interleague if they are in the same division?

SoxNation05
02-10-2008, 03:11 PM
I don't follow.
If there are 15 teams in each league one team will not play each day.

JGarlandrules20
02-10-2008, 03:13 PM
The Royals are making good steps to improve. I think their young lineup will surprise people next season.

They're not as bad as everyone is making them out to be...

CubKilla
02-10-2008, 03:37 PM
The Royals are making good steps to improve. I think their young lineup will surprise people next season.

They're not as bad as everyone is making them out to be...

They're a lock for last place.

Bud will never allow the Brewers to lose all that sCrUB fan revenue they get when the Cubs play in Milwaukee.

Fenway
02-10-2008, 03:43 PM
They're a lock for last place.

Bud will never allow the Brewers to lose all that sCrUB fan revenue they get when the Cubs play in Milwaukee.

They would make it back with 9 with the White Sox and 6-8 games with Boston and New York.

I think this miscalulated when they thought old Braves fans missed the NL. That maybe true but Braves fans are getting a little long in the tooth. Most Brewers fans were raised on the AL.

Certainly their stay in the NL has not been a good one as they only have had one decent season ( 2007 )

soxfan21
02-10-2008, 03:53 PM
This would make the NL Central even worse, and, at least for possibly the next few years should this happen soon, basically favor the Cubs and maybe the Cardinals in that division. It would most likely be just a two team division even though that is basically what it is now with the Cubs and the Brewers.

oeo
02-10-2008, 04:03 PM
This would make the NL Central even worse, and, at least for possibly the next few years should this happen soon, basically favor the Cubs and maybe the Cardinals in that division. It would most likely be just a two team division even though that is basically what it is now with the Cubs and the Brewers.

The Astros are there too. They've put together a pretty good lineup. Of course their pitching is suspect, but everyone's pitching is suspect in that division.

Brian26
02-10-2008, 04:10 PM
So you mean Brewers fans don't enjoy this?:

V1MJ-ta0S24


Wow. That's just embarrassing.

batmanZoSo
02-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Chicago fans are pretty obnoxious out of town.

FedEx227
02-10-2008, 04:33 PM
Chicago fans are pretty obnoxious out of town.

I hate to say it, but it's damn true. I went to a Bulls/Bucks game in Milwaukee once and the Chicago fans were beyond annoying.

thomas35forever
02-10-2008, 05:00 PM
Just what I'd like to see. The Pirates and Royals duking it out for last year after year.:rolleyes:

Honestly, if this happens, I'd lobby for the Brewers to come back to the AL. There shouldn't be seven teams in one division.

batmanZoSo
02-10-2008, 05:13 PM
I hate to say it, but it's damn true. I went to a Bulls/Bucks game in Milwaukee once and the Chicago fans were beyond annoying.

Bears game in Detroit this year...while waiting in line to get in, hundreds of Bears fans in groups filing up to the line yelled and carried on about the relative merits of the Bears as compared to those of Detroit. It was damn fun, but still obnoxious.

white sox bill
02-10-2008, 05:39 PM
Milwaukee is a fun city, if Bud should ask, I give thumbs up! Anyone here ever go to the Safe House?

TheOldRoman
02-10-2008, 06:05 PM
I don't follow.Divide 15 teams by 2. Seven teams would play seven other teams, and each league would have an extra team. There would either need to be interleague play all year, or a team in each league would have to have a bye series at all times.

TheOldRoman
02-10-2008, 06:07 PM
Just what I'd like to see. The Pirates and Royals duking it out for last year after year.:rolleyes:
The Royals aren't that bad, and they are getting better. They spanked the NL last year (and the year before, I believe). They look bad playing against the Indians, Yankees, Blowsox, and Angels, but with the talent they had last year, they probably would have finished over .500 in the NL Central.

bigfoot
02-10-2008, 06:24 PM
Just a little less than 3 hrs of driving for the fans from Des Moines to get to KC!:bandance:

DrCrawdad
02-10-2008, 06:40 PM
They're a lock for last place.

Bud will never allow the Brewers to lose all that sCrUB fan revenue they get when the Cubs play in Milwaukee.

I'm sure Bud has already run the numbers. The Sox were no doubt a boost in attendance but probably not nearly as much as having the Cubbies. I think our resident other Sox fan is over-estimating the boost from the other Sox and the Yankees.

Railsplitter
02-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Bill Madden from the NY Daily News was on WEEI's baseball show Sunday morning and said something in passing that I found interesting.

The Royals who turned down the chance to move to the NL a decade ago have reconsidered things and have asked Bud about changing leagues. They cite being between St Louis and Denver as being a reason and would love being in the same division as the Cards.

Now Madden claims the Brewers would not mind coming back to the AL. The Brewers ownership has discovered that many fans miss the AL and that was brought home last April when the Indians drew very well on short notice when games were moved to Milwaukee. They have also found that Brewers fans resent Miller Park becoming Wrigley North when the Cubs play there.

On the surface it seems like a win win for everybody.
Indeed. I've often thought the same myself.

Another great idea the would be for for the Roayls to become like the Packers: community owned. That way all the money goes into the team and not some owner's pocket.

RadioheadRocks
02-10-2008, 08:21 PM
...The Brewers ownership has discovered that many fans miss the AL and that was brought home last April when the Indians drew very well on short notice when games were moved to Milwaukee. They have also found that Brewers fans resent Miller Park becoming Wrigley North when the Cubs play there.

On the surface it seems like a win win for everybody.


Hmmm, so much for the theory that "Milwaukee is a National League town" that we heard 10 years ago when they switched leagues.

PKalltheway
02-10-2008, 08:43 PM
It wouldn't hurt. The only thing would be that if this were to happen, the AL Central would become even tougher, while the NL Central would become even worse.

However, if the Brewers end up winning the NL Central this year, those same fans probably would forget about ever missing the AL.

oeo
02-10-2008, 08:50 PM
It wouldn't hurt. The only thing would be that if this were to happen, the AL Central would become even tougher, while the NL Central would become even worse.

This is actually a very bad excuse. These things go in cycles (unless of course you have a division like the AL East where the two top teams outspend the rest...but neither the AL Central or NL Central have that), so in another 10 years the NL Central could be the best division in baseball, and the AL Central the worst.

PKalltheway
02-10-2008, 08:52 PM
This is actually a very bad excuse. These things go in cycles, so in another 10 years the NL Central could be the best division in baseball, and the AL Central the worst.
True. I probably should have made myself clearer. I meant that the ALC would be better, and the NLC would be worse, at least for now. 5, 10 years from now, who knows? The NLC may end up being the best division in baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
02-10-2008, 09:07 PM
This is actually a very bad excuse. These things go in cycles (unless of course you have a division like the AL East where the two top teams outspend the rest...but neither the AL Central or NL Central have that), so in another 10 years the NL Central could be the best division in baseball, and the AL Central the worst.

Of course it is possible that the small market teams in the NL Central (Pirates, Reds, Brewers/Royals) all could develop great young players. But there's nothing to suggest that these three cities/markets will grow enough to allow those franchises to increase their payrolls to retain such hypothetical young talent.

Put another way, does anyone think the Pirates, Reds or Brewers/Royals have the resources to match the offers that the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers and Angles will make for top free agent talent? I don't.

Hitmen77
02-10-2008, 09:36 PM
Bill Madden from the NY Daily News was on WEEI's baseball show Sunday morning and said something in passing that I found interesting.

The Royals who turned down the chance to move to the NL a decade ago have reconsidered things and have asked Bud about changing leagues. They cite being between St Louis and Denver as being a reason and would love being in the same division as the Cards.

Now Madden claims the Brewers would not mind coming back to the AL. The Brewers ownership has discovered that many fans miss the AL and that was brought home last April when the Indians drew very well on short notice when games were moved to Milwaukee. They have also found that Brewers fans resent Miller Park becoming Wrigley North when the Cubs play there.

On the surface it seems like a win win for everybody.

If this is true, it's sort of ironic that the Brewers would feel this way now since 10 years ago they were emphasizing how Milwaukee was always an NL city "at heart" (:rolleyes:) because of the 15 years they had the Braves.

Plus, Milwaukee got exactly what they wished for with the Cub fans - one of the big things Bud was eager for was more attendance from playing the Cubs. IIRC, he pretty much said the White Sox never did anything for them. At the time, I was pretty irked at that comment because I remember going up to County Stadium in the early 90s to see the Sox and that place would be PACKED whereas the Brewers had spares crowds most of the rest of the time. They wanted Cubs fans money and got Cubs fans drunken obnoxiousness. I don't feel too sorry for them because they got exactly what they wished for.

Personally, I doubt this will ever happen. But if it does, I think it would be great to have a division that was Min-Mil-Sox-Det-Cle. That would be one hell of a midwest division. That would be like baseball's version of the NFC North (plus Cleveland). I was disappointed that the Sox never had a chance to develop a rivalry with the Brewers since they spent most of the Brewers' AL existence in different divisions. I'd be glad to see it happen - but again, I am very doubtful this is more than just a rumor that is never going to go anywhere.

Hitmen77
02-10-2008, 09:42 PM
So you mean Brewers fans don't enjoy this?:

V1MJ-ta0S24

or this?:


m0bRNfguLFE&feature=related
Mod edit: Language warning on the videos.

Wow! That is indeed embarrassing. I know that every team (including the Sox) has obnoxious fans like this. But, to be honest, this just seems like so typical of Cub fans much more so than most other fans. Sorry, I see that and those guys just look like typical Cub fans to me more so than typical Sox fans or typical Indians fans or typical (fill in the blank of another team) fans.

Used to be that the media would just gush over how great Cub fans are in that they are everywhere in visiting parks. I'm glad that, over the last few years, these Cub fans have begun to earn a must-deserved reputation of being terrible guests because of their obnoxiousness.

cws05champ
02-10-2008, 10:56 PM
For this change to happen it would take some time, so don't count on the teams they have now as the one's we would or wouldn't face. I think they would need to give teams at least 3 years notice so they can plan their rosters and systems. Obviously Price would become a DH(and probably will be eventually). I think both teams in 3 years will have decent teams.

TheOldRoman
02-10-2008, 11:12 PM
This is actually a very bad excuse. These things go in cycles (unless of course you have a division like the AL East where the two top teams outspend the rest...but neither the AL Central or NL Central have that), so in another 10 years the NL Central could be the best division in baseball, and the AL Central the worst.
Hey, look as far back as four years. The AL Central was the worst division in baseball. The Sox kept tripping over their own feet, and the Twins kept winning the division by default. Cleveland sucked, Detroit was historically awful, and KC was terrible except for one year. I wouldn't say the NLC was the best division, but the Astros and Cardinals were really good teams for several years. The Cubs won a division and looked like they would become a powerhouse in the coming years. Things change quickly. That is why only the insane (read: Hangar) would say the NL is inherently inferior.

oeo
02-10-2008, 11:13 PM
Of course it is possible that the small market teams in the NL Central (Pirates, Reds, Brewers/Royals) all could develop great young players. But there's nothing to suggest that these three cities/markets will grow enough to allow those franchises to increase their payrolls to retain such hypothetical young talent.

Put another way, does anyone think the Pirates, Reds or Brewers/Royals have the resources to match the offers that the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers and Angles will make for top free agent talent? I don't.

What does any of this have to do with this particular situation? Will the A's, Twins, or Devil Rays ever be able to do that? Small market teams have found ways to win...you just have to put forth that commitment all the way through the organization like the A's and Twins have done. Switching the Brewers and Royals will not make their new respective divisions any different in 5-10 years or so (and I'm going to say closer to 10, because every team in that division besides the Brewers is in bad shape).

You're bringing forth an entirely different argument which really isn't relevant to this situation.

PalehosePlanet
02-11-2008, 12:15 AM
I'm sure Bud has already run the numbers. The Sox were no doubt a boost in attendance but probably not nearly as much as having the Cubbies. I think our resident other Sox fan is over-estimating the boost from the other Sox and the Yankees.

Don't forget the Tigers, Indians and Twins fans making the trip to Milwaukee. Along with the Sox fans that would more than offset the loss of cubs and Cardinals revenue.

Also, the NL Central won't be terrible forever. A division being good or bad runs in cycles. It wasn't too long ago that our division was terrible.

dcb56
02-11-2008, 01:28 AM
Looking at this move from the perspective of what it would do to the competitiveness of the divisions is missing the point as such a move probably wouldn't be made for at least a couple years so those two teams can get their rosters in order. Rather it should be looked at as a business decision and as such it seems like it would be a good one.

The Royals lose 6-8 games vs. Boston and NYY but pick up 3-6 games vs. the Cards and 6-9 vs the Cubs. The Brewers would lose 6-9 vs. the Cards and 6-9 vs. the Cubs but would gain 6-8 vs. Boston and NYY, 9 vs. the Sox, and 9 vs. the Twins, a team that always draw well at Miller Park during Interleague. It's difficult for me to imagine how this move wouldn't help both teams at the gate, which in the long run would help these smaller market teams better compete with the big boys in their respective leagues. Moving the Brewers to the AL would also probably benefit the Sox by putting more seats in the butts at the Cell than the Royals do.

I'm all for this move and if it were to happen I'd definitely make a couple road trips to Milw each season for both the games and tailgating.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 07:49 AM
I'm sure Bud has already run the numbers. The Sox were no doubt a boost in attendance but probably not nearly as much as having the Cubbies. I think our resident other Sox fan is over-estimating the boost from the other Sox and the Yankees.

The Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs are the best road draws.

In 2003 when Boston last played at Miller Park the Brewers had their 3 largest crowds of the season.

I want Mags back
02-11-2008, 08:59 AM
Won't happen because then you would have interleague every day

I think we've reached a point in time where having 1 interleague series every day, as opposed to having all of them in bunches, would work out fine

Fenway
02-11-2008, 09:35 AM
When I lived in Rogers Park and Evanston in the 80's I went to a ton of games at County Stadium. We discovered that we could drive to Milwaukee in almost the same amount of time as going only 10 miles south to Comiskey. Trying to get through the Loop at rush hour in those days was brutal.

I remember White Sox fans would pack the LF bleachers at County every game. On the other hand Brewers fans did NOT goto Comiskey in large numbers as they were genuinely frightened of Chicago.

The idea just makes sense at every level. The Royals would get big crowds for St Louis. The Brewers would be back with all the other Great Lakes teams. It would be a brutal division but would make for 6 months of great baseball.

Anybody recall why the Royals refused the chance 10 years ago? I do recall them being offered the move before the Brewers.

bigsoxfan420
02-11-2008, 09:44 AM
I would welcome the move. I grew up with the Brewers as a Sox rival and welcome it back. I remember vividly going to the the Sox last home opener at (Old) Comiskey against the Brew-crew. The only time I think my parents let me miss school for an non-health related reason.

C-Dawg
02-11-2008, 10:43 AM
Hmmm, so much for the theory that "Milwaukee is a National League town" that we heard 10 years ago when they switched leagues.

Yea, I never really understood that logic. Heck, I'm 42 and even as a kid, the Milwaukee Braves seemed like ancient history to me. Milwaukee has always been an AL team to me and still seems weird to think of as an NL city.

russ99
02-11-2008, 10:59 AM
There's already 6 teams in the NL Central, and there would be a schedule imbalance if there were 17/13 teams in the two leagues.

If KC would move to the NL, someone would have to move back to the AL, but it won't be Milwaukee as long as Bud is running things... Also, despite being the westernmost NL Central team, the Astros have no interest in moving into either the AL or NL West, due to rivalries (Stl, Cubs, Cin) and travel.

The other solution is the MLB could contract (or expand by) two teams and then reshuffle everything.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 11:15 AM
If KC would move to the NL, someone would have to move back to the AL, but it won't be Milwaukee as long as Bud is running things... Also, despite being the westernmost NL Central team, the Astros have no interest in moving into either the AL or NL West, due to rivalries (Stl, Cubs, Cin) and travel.

The other solution is the MLB could contract (or expand by) two teams and then reshuffle everything.

Madden addressed that on the radio yesterday. The Brewers ownership heard very loudly that people missed the AL when the Indians played 3 home games there last April.

The Brewers fans are fed up with the Cubs fans trashing Miller Park as well.

The new owners of the Brewers have told Bud he was wrong to switch leagues.

Now I wonder how Royals fans would feel about a switch?

Frater Perdurabo
02-11-2008, 01:35 PM
What does any of this have to do with this particular situation? Will the A's, Twins, or Devil Rays ever be able to do that? Small market teams have found ways to win...you just have to put forth that commitment all the way through the organization like the A's and Twins have done. Switching the Brewers and Royals will not make their new respective divisions any different in 5-10 years or so (and I'm going to say closer to 10, because every team in that division besides the Brewers is in bad shape).

You're bringing forth an entirely different argument which really isn't relevant to this situation.

All I am saying is that I don't expect the NL to get stronger or the AL to get weaker if the Royals and Brewers trade leagues.

Yes, things are cyclical as teams go through ups and downs, but there are also systemic factors that work toward preserving the status quo. One of them is market size. The fact that the Yankees play in New York - the largest market - has played a role in them consistently being able to hire the best players and be a dominant team throughout the history of baseball (26 World Series victories). Yes, small market teams manage to be competitive, but the two "smartest" teams (the A's and Twins, who manage to win with small payrolls) also are in the AL! Of course the Royals want to play in the NL Central. They'd be on even ground against the other small-market teams (Pirates and Reds), and the eternally inept Cubs.

SaltyPretzel
02-11-2008, 02:05 PM
Now I wonder how Royals fans would feel about a switch?

I asked yesterday: http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-royals&tid=33393

Fenway
02-11-2008, 02:16 PM
Royals have all kinds of problems.

The team owned TV network (Royals Sports Television Network) went broke and they had to go to Charles Dolan hat in hand....

Now the games will be on FSN Kansas City which will actually be a sub channel of FSN Midwest.

RSTN still owes my company over $300,000 in truck rentals :(:

This is the second time Dolan has come to the rescue of a team network going broke. The Buffalo Sabres were on Aldelphia owned Empire Sports ( and the cable company also owned the team )

When Aldelphia was exposed to be another Enron the Sabres were forced to scramble and are now on MSG Network owned by Dolan.

AZChiSoxFan
02-11-2008, 02:30 PM
I am not sure the AL and NL will exist 5 years from now.

Care to expound on that comment?

Fenway
02-11-2008, 02:42 PM
Care to expound on that comment?

I really believe that Selig wants to implement the realignment that a committee led by former Boston owner John Harrington proposed 10 years ago.

Selig said something a couple of weeks ago that when he is finished "you will not recognize the game"

Selig has all but abolished the AL and NL anyways.....they don't even bother with the Red and Green books anymore which were treasures.

Umpires are MLB, the baseball says MLB, everything is MLB

Think back 20 years ago when NL owners were horrified when then NL President Bart Giamatti was wearing a Red Sox cap at Shea Stadium. :tongue:

When I was a kid I used to go every March to the AL Office that was located in the IBM Building in the Back Bay and would be given a "Red Book" by the nice woman behind the desk ( one year I got it from Joe Cronin )
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/baseball/images/memorabilia/redbook1983.jpg
They were wonderful stat books for the day.

spiffie
02-11-2008, 02:49 PM
I am not sure the AL and NL will exist 5 years from now.
That would be the best thing that could happen to the game. 6 geographically oriented divisions, 2 wildcard slots, add 12 games to the schedule by reinstituting doubleheaders on Saturdays, and every team plays every other team the same amount of times, 6 per season.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 02:58 PM
That would be the best thing that could happen to the game. 6 geographically oriented divisions, 2 wildcard slots, add 12 games to the schedule by reinstituting doubleheaders on Saturdays, and every team plays every other team the same amount of times, 6 per season.

John Harrington has said recently that he still talks to Bud weekly and they do talk about his plan.

I must admit Harrington has done a good job on spreading the money the Yawkey Trust got from the sale around to local charities and hospitals.

http://www.massgeneral.org/pubaffairs/Graphics2005/011405YAWKEY.JPG

The Yawkey Center was made possible by a generous $25 million gift—the largest gift in Mass General’s history—from the Yawkey Foundation. Jean R. Yawkey, who with her husband, Tom, was a longtime owner of the Red Sox, received her medical care at Mass General and was a strong supporter of the hospital and its mission. Following Mrs. Yawkey’s death in 1992, the trustees of the Yawkey Foundation have continued her tradition of charitable giving to Mass General.

http://www.massgeneral.org/yawkey/

sox1970
02-11-2008, 03:04 PM
That would be the best thing that could happen to the game. 6 geographically oriented divisions, 2 wildcard slots, add 12 games to the schedule by reinstituting doubleheaders on Saturdays, and every team plays every other team the same amount of times, 6 per season.

So the Red Sox and Yankees would only play 6 games. You think they'd want to cut back from 18 to 6?

If you're going to have divisions, you have to play more games against those teams within, or there's no point. You'd potentially have an under .500 team in the playoffs for the sake of geography. That almost happened in 1994 when Texas was leading the AL West under a balanced schedule. If not for the strike, there was a good chance an under .500 team makes the playoffs that year.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 03:20 PM
So the Red Sox and Yankees would only play 6 games. You think they'd want to cut back from 18 to 6?



:praying:

Actually 6 would be to few but I can't take 19 anymore..it is too much.

spiffie
02-11-2008, 03:28 PM
So the Red Sox and Yankees would only play 6 games. You think they'd want to cut back from 18 to 6?

If you're going to have divisions, you have to play more games against those teams within, or there's no point. You'd potentially have an under .500 team in the playoffs for the sake of geography. That almost happened in 1994 when Texas was leading the AL West under a balanced schedule. If not for the strike, there was a good chance an under .500 team makes the playoffs that year.
Then eliminate divisions altogether. Top 8 make the playoffs. Everyone whines about the unbalanced schedule and six divisions and how some weak team will make the playoffs, then I say clear the decks entirely.

As for if NY and Boston would be sad to only play each other 6 times a year I couldn't really give a ****. I know what I'm proposing will never happen, but if people truly want only the best teams playing the postseason then that's the only way to go. One league. 30 teams. 6 games against each team. Top 8 are in, everyone else goes home.

sox1970
02-11-2008, 03:31 PM
:praying:

Actually 6 would be to few but I can't take 19 anymore..it is too much.

Well if it were up to me, I'd keep the leagues as is, but eliminate divisions and interleague play. Then play every other team in the AL 12 games= 156 games.

What I would like to know is why did the AL play a balanced schedule, for all intents and purposes, from 1977-1993, but had divisions? There were several 4th and 5th best teams in the AL that made the playoffs and won World Series only because of geography. In 1990, they played a balanced schedule--the A's won 103, the Sox won 94, but the Red Sox made the playoffs with 88. Doesn't make much sense.

They should have at least played 15 games within the division, and 10 games out. That would have been 160 games.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Well if it were up to me, I'd keep the leagues as is, but eliminate divisions and interleague play. Then play every other team in the AL 12 games= 156 games.

What I would like to know is why did the AL play a balanced schedule, for all intents and purposes, from 1977-1993, but had divisions? There were several 4th and 5th best teams in the AL that made the playoffs and won World Series only because of geography. In 1990, they played a balanced schedule--the A's won 103, the Sox won 94, but the Red Sox made the playoffs with 88. Doesn't make much sense.

They should have at least played 15 games within the division, and 10 games out. That would have been 160 games.

It was
Under the format, the Red Sox play 13 games against each Eastern team, for a total of 78, and 12 games against each Western team, for a total of 84

The unbalanced schedule was the idea of THE CUBS
"We like an unbalanced schedule and hope it can work out," said Katy Feeney, the National League's schedule administrator.

Jim Frey, general manager of the Chicago Cubs "It's more exciting when you're in a pennant race to be playing teams in your own division," he said. "The fans think it's more exciting. And it creates better rivalries."

sox1970
02-11-2008, 03:41 PM
It was
Under the format, the Red Sox play 13 games against each Eastern team, for a total of 78, and 12 games against each Western team, for a total of 84

The unbalanced schedule was the idea of THE CUBS
"We like an unbalanced schedule and hope it can work out," said Katy Feeney, the National League's schedule administrator.

Jim Frey, general manager of the Chicago Cubs "It's more exciting when you're in a pennant race to be playing teams in your own division," he said. "The fans think it's more exciting. And it creates better rivalries."

Yeah, it was really dumb playing more games outside of the division.

90 inside the division, and 70 outside would have made a lot more sense.

Taliesinrk
02-11-2008, 04:03 PM
Maybe I'm off here.. but I could never see your proposal working out Fenway. This is simply due to the fact of how much revenue teams bring in from match-ups like interleague play and the rivalries developed through the current set-up. I think that it probably should change, but the business of baseball will get in the way, IMO.

Fenway
02-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Maybe I'm off here.. but I could never see your proposal working out Fenway. This is simply due to the fact of how much revenue teams bring in from match-ups like interleague play and the rivalries developed through the current set-up. I think that it probably should change, but the business of baseball will get in the way, IMO.

You think anybody in Milwaukee cares about Houston or Pittsburgh?

Taliesinrk
02-11-2008, 04:22 PM
You think anybody in Milwaukee cares about Houston or Pittsburgh?

No, but I think you'd know better than most how many Red Sox - Yankees games get shoved down the rest of the country's throat each year because of the "great rivalry". How many of the 19 games they play are nationally televised? I'm willing to bet that with the other 12 or so games that free up vs teams like the mariners and twins aren't going to bring in quite that much attention.

asg2003ws2005
02-11-2008, 04:53 PM
Won't happen because then you would have interleague every day
is that so bad?

Fenway
02-11-2008, 04:54 PM
is that so bad?

I could live with it I suppose.

Imagine the fun of Opening Day at USCF against the Cubs :tongue:

asg2003ws2005
02-11-2008, 04:55 PM
I really believe that Selig wants to implement the realignment that a committee led by former Boston owner John Harrington proposed 10 years ago.

Selig said something a couple of weeks ago that when he is finished "you will not recognize the game"

Selig has all but abolished the AL and NL anyways.....they don't even bother with the Red and Green books anymore which were treasures.

Umpires are MLB, the baseball says MLB, everything is MLB

Think back 20 years ago when NL owners were horrified when then NL President Bart Giamatti was wearing a Red Sox cap at Shea Stadium. :tongue:

When I was a kid I used to go every March to the AL Office that was located in the IBM Building in the Back Bay and would be given a "Red Book" by the nice woman behind the desk ( one year I got it from Joe Cronin )
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/baseball/images/memorabilia/redbook1983.jpg
They were wonderful stat books for the day.they still make the red/green books.
i got some at soxfest last year

asg2003ws2005
02-11-2008, 04:59 PM
I could live with it I suppose.

Imagine the fun of Opening Day at USCF against the Cubs :tongue:If you expand interleague play, you can eliminate unblanced skeds and still maintain some semblance of the divisions meaning something.

Ziggy S
02-11-2008, 06:10 PM
I'd set aside six games a year for intra-city (Chi-Chi, Ny-Ny, La-La) and intra-state (Cle-Cin, etc) rivalries or close proximity/historical rivalries for interleague play and get rid of the rest of the other twelve games. Who gives a rat's ass if the Real Sox play the Nationals this year?

Tragg
02-11-2008, 08:55 PM
I found the Brewers extremely annoying when they were in our division. Let them stay in the NL and bother the Cubs.
Brewers and the Rangers - two pain the butt teams.

We need the Royals in our division. Need a break sometime.

ComiskeyBrewer
02-12-2008, 03:09 AM
Milwaukee is a fun city, if Bud should ask, I give thumbs up! Anyone here ever go to the Safe House?

I still have my rocks glass from the safe house. You still remember the password?

ComiskeyBrewer
02-12-2008, 03:11 AM
Hmmm, so much for the theory that "Milwaukee is a National League town" that we heard 10 years ago when they switched leagues.

Most Brewer fans i know(mid 20s-early 30s) prefer it in the NL. However guys who grew up in the 70s and 80s would probably disagree.

ComiskeyBrewer
02-12-2008, 03:20 AM
You think anybody in Milwaukee cares about Houston or Pittsburgh?

No. I would much rather play the Yankees and Orioles(my dad still hates BAL to the bone because we were always going head to head with them in the early 80s) than the lastros and pirates.

russ99
02-12-2008, 10:36 AM
Then eliminate divisions altogether. Top 8 make the playoffs. Everyone whines about the unbalanced schedule and six divisions and how some weak team will make the playoffs, then I say clear the decks entirely.

As for if NY and Boston would be sad to only play each other 6 times a year I couldn't really give a ****. I know what I'm proposing will never happen, but if people truly want only the best teams playing the postseason then that's the only way to go. One league. 30 teams. 6 games against each team. Top 8 are in, everyone else goes home.

Not a bad idea. However I'd love to see a Eastern and Western conference break things up so the rich teams don't win every year.

Maybe even spice it up and break it up by big market and small market.

Taliesinrk
02-12-2008, 10:41 AM
No. I would much rather play the Yankees and Orioles(my dad still hates BAL to the bone because we were always going head to head with them in the early 80s) than the lastros and pirates.

right.. but I wasn't referring to Fenway's KC-MIL idea... rather, the comment about the fact that the leagues may not exist in 5 years.

brewcrew/chisox
02-12-2008, 02:08 PM
Hmmm, so much for the theory that "Milwaukee is a National League town" that we heard 10 years ago when they switched leagues.


Just because some idiot out East says Milwaukee wants AL baseball again doesn't make it so (I don't mean you Fenway, I mean Madden).

IMO, this would be dumbest idea north of the Cheddar curtain if the Brewers moved back to the AL:

1. No more Cubs/Brewers rivalry. Yes the whitesox/brewers rivalries of the 80's were some of the more intense in baseball, but the fanaticism attached to Cubs baseball still will bring more people to Miller Park regardless of how the Cubs are playing each year (I write this with disdain for Cub fans and their lemming-like adoration, and not admiration). Frankly, Cub fans turn up regardless. Sox fans--like Brewer fans--like to remind management of when their team stinks by not showing up to games from time to time. I'm not sure Mark Attanasio wants to mess with a sure thing.

2. Bringing the Red Sox, and Yankees to Miller Park will help short term, but remember that the Brewers, while better now, finished second in one of the worst divisions in the NL. By playing the Red Sox, and Yankees every year, coupled with the fact they would now be playing in arguably one of the toughest divisions in the AL, hurts , rather than helps their chances of making the playoffs each year. As a small market team, when the window of opportunity for making the post season is tentative at best, increasing your chances of failure each game doesn't make sense at any level.

3. That claptrap about Milwaukee fans showing up for the Indians game is so stupid I don't know what to say. If anything, it shows that Milwaukee likes baseball right now....and cheap baseball at that, since those games were being sold for peanuts.

4. Bud 'Used Car' Steal-ig couldn't give a rat's ass to what happens to the Milwaukee Brewers now. He doesn't own them anymore (not like he cared much about their success on the field when he did though). Bud conned the Milwaukee public in to overspending for Miller Park and its broken roof, and then ran off with bags of cash. Unless I'm missing his angle (and there has to be an angle), Steal-ig needs some financial windfall for making a decision here. My question is how would this help him if the Brewers were to move to the AL? If anything it brings less national interest to a division that wasn't that popular in the first place. Cinci, Pit, and now KC?? zzzzzzzzzzzz...

5. This may be a minor point, but I'll argue it anyway. It also doesn't make good business sense for the Brewers to be adding a DH to their payroll (Unless they want to bring Graffy back). The 8-10 million a year to spend on a decent DH can instead be used to pay Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, and Corey Hart....oh and then maybe sign another stud arm to fill out their rotation and maybe a shutdown closer in case Gagne falls apart which I'm really worried abou this year :D:

ComiskeyBrewer
02-12-2008, 07:18 PM
right.. but I wasn't referring to Fenway's KC-MIL idea... rather, the comment about the fact that the leagues may not exist in 5 years.

I know, i was responding to Fenway. That's why i quoted him.

ComiskeyBrewer
02-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Just because some idiot out East says Milwaukee wants AL baseball again doesn't make it so (I don't mean you Fenway, I mean Madden).

3. That claptrap about Milwaukee fans showing up for the Indians game is so stupid I don't know what to say. If anything, it shows that Milwaukee likes baseball right now....and cheap baseball at that, since those games were being sold for peanuts.


Yea, tickets that usually cost between $50-$75 were being sold for like, $5 or $10. That usually will bring out alot of people.

gaelhound
02-13-2008, 09:03 PM
Chicago fans are pretty obnoxious out of town.I resent that remark, I try to be obnoxious everywhere!:mad: