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View Full Version : If you could take one move back


SoxNation05
02-07-2008, 04:35 PM
If you could take one move back from the 2007-2008 offseason which would it be?

btrain929
02-07-2008, 04:36 PM
Putting Fernando Hernandez on the 40 man roster.

eriqjaffe
02-07-2008, 04:40 PM
Can I take back a move made by the Angels?

Sargeant79
02-07-2008, 04:40 PM
At the time of the deal, it was necessary. But it would be nice if we didn't have Juan Uribe eating $4 mil+ of salary right now.

SoxNation05
02-07-2008, 04:41 PM
Mine would probably be Garland for Cabrera. I really think we could've of got a lot more value out of a 2-3 starting pitcher. I understand that we also signed Linebrink with that money, but it's not like we have a shortage on money. I mean if we can sign Hunter 5/75 we can sign Linebrink 4/19. I also think we could have got a better haul via trade with JG. I understand Cabrera's fit but we now have Swisher who also fits perfect in the two hole. If we sign Eckstein we can keep Garland and have an equal lineup with a real leadoff hitter.

sox1970
02-07-2008, 04:43 PM
Putting Fernando Hernandez on the 40 man roster.

Yes

batmanZoSo
02-07-2008, 04:44 PM
I'd take the not trading Konerko move back.

kittle42
02-07-2008, 04:46 PM
The Garland trade. But I hope I eat my words.

Rocky Soprano
02-07-2008, 04:50 PM
I'd take the not trading Konerko move back.

:gulp:

spawn
02-07-2008, 05:06 PM
Seeing as the '08 season hasn't even started, a thread like this seems a bit premature IMO.

SoxNation05
02-07-2008, 05:16 PM
Seeing as the '08 season hasn't even started, a thread like this seems a bit premature IMO.
No, because after the season it would be obvious which move we would prefer to take back.

chisoxmike
02-07-2008, 05:31 PM
Garland trade. No doubt.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 05:34 PM
Without a doubt Garland.....if we had some extra pitching, then I would be fine but we have 3 question marks coming into the year and I don't like it.

WhiteSox5187
02-07-2008, 05:35 PM
I would rather have kept Garland, but I can deal with that trade bring back Uribe at four million a week before though, that I could live without.

btrain929
02-07-2008, 05:38 PM
Mine would probably be Garland for Cabrera. I really think we could've of got a lot more value out of a 2-3 starting pitcher. I understand that we also signed Linebrink with that money, but it's not like we have a shortage on money. I mean if we can sign Hunter 5/75 we can sign Linebrink 4/19. I also think we could have got a better haul via trade with JG. I understand Cabrera's fit but we now have Swisher who also fits perfect in the two hole. If we sign Eckstein we can keep Garland and have an equal lineup with a real leadoff hitter.

Such as.....

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 05:39 PM
Such as.....
Orlando Cabrera and a single-A player

spawn
02-07-2008, 05:48 PM
No, because after the season it would be obvious which move we would prefer to take back.
Well, I guess I'm the only one that would rather see how a move played out before regretting it. Oh well.

gr8mexico
02-07-2008, 06:29 PM
If I could take one move back I would like to take back trading George Herman Ruth for cash oops wrong message board.

Flight #24
02-07-2008, 06:30 PM
Cutting loose Frank Thomas following 2005, but that's just me. I'd have resigned him to a cheap, incentive-laden deal (which he was willing to do), and gone out to add a mid-level guy like Everett who could be a part-time DH.

In hindsight, I might not have dealt Chris Young for Vazquez, but I'm not sure about that - I think Javy's very good.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 06:33 PM
Cutting loose Frank Thomas following 2005, but that's just me. I'd have resigned him to a cheap, incentive-laden deal (which he was willing to do), and gone out to add a mid-level guy like Everett who could be a part-time DH.

In hindsight, I might not have dealt Chris Young for Vazquez, but I'm not sure about that - I think Javy's very good.
Well if you want someone to help Thome out this year for part time DH, there's always Sammy Sosa

Jjav829
02-07-2008, 06:48 PM
If you could take one move back from the 2007-2008 offseason which would it be?

The Miguel Cabrera to the Tigers move.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 06:50 PM
The Miguel Cabrera to the Tigers move.
Yeah, that's gonna hurt big time....HOpefully he breaks his leg or something or eats to many churros this offseason.

KyWhiSoxFan
02-07-2008, 07:01 PM
The Sox did not have a 2007-2008 season. This is not basketball, football, or hockey.

So I think what you're asking is: 1) What would you do different in the 2007 season? and, 2) What would you do different from the end of the 2007 until today?

1) Start all over
2) Get Miguel Cabrera and Johan Santana.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 07:07 PM
The Sox did not have a 2007-2008 season. This is not basketball, football, or hockey.

So I think what you're asking is: 1) What would you do different in the 2007 season? and, 2) What would you do different from the end of the 2007 until today?

1) Start all over
2) Get Miguel Cabrera and Johan Santana.
keep Dreaming Big

D. TODD
02-07-2008, 07:08 PM
I'm still pissed about losing Bobby Bonilla for Jose DeLeon!:o:

MarySwiss
02-07-2008, 07:10 PM
Well, I guess I'm the only one that would rather see how a move played out before regretting it. Oh well.

No, you're not.

Think back to all the people who hated the Carlos Lee move. Or the Maggs move.

I prefer to wait and see what happens.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 07:11 PM
No, you're not.

Think back to all the people who hated the Carlos Lee move. Or the Maggs move.

I prefer to wait and see what happens.
That turned out pretty good for the sox in 2005.

sircaffey1
02-07-2008, 07:15 PM
Undoubtedly, Garland for Cabrera.

Craig Grebeck
02-07-2008, 07:17 PM
Signing Linebrink and losing a draft pick by doing so.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Signing Linebrink and losing a draft pick by doing so.
A sandwich pick and the possibility of that one draft making the majors is so slim.

MarySwiss
02-07-2008, 07:20 PM
That turned out pretty good for the sox in 2005.

Yep, that's my--and I think Spawn's--point. You just never know, so speculating before the season even starts--before ST ever starts--is futile.

The Sox will finish in ____ place. They will win ____ and lose ____. Their starting rotation will be ________.

One thing I think we can count on: the bullpen will be better.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 07:23 PM
Yep, that's my--and I think Spawn's--point. You just never know, so speculating before the season even starts--before ST ever starts--is futile.

The Sox will finish in 1st place. They will win 100 and lose 62. Their starting rotation will be amazing.

One thing I think we can count on: the bullpen will be better.
I filled it out for you:cool:

sircaffey1
02-07-2008, 07:29 PM
A sandwich pick and the possibility of that one draft making the majors is so slim.

So? The chance of that prospect being one of the best prospects in our pathetic system is high. You don't get prospects only to reach the majors. You get them to acquire major league talent. Swisher, Quentin, Richar all gotten by guys who may not reach the majors. We lost a chip due to signing Linebrink.

Jjav829
02-07-2008, 07:48 PM
The Sox did not have a 2007-2008 season. This is not basketball, football, or hockey.

So I think what you're asking is: 1) What would you do different in the 2007 season? and, 2) What would you do different from the end of the 2007 until today?

1) Start all over
2) Get Miguel Cabrera and Johan Santana.

He said 2007-2008 offseason. And yes, that does span from one year to another.

FarWestChicago
02-07-2008, 08:17 PM
Trading a lead pipe, lock, first round Hall of Famer.

santo=dorf
02-07-2008, 08:18 PM
Cutting loose Frank Thomas following 2005, but that's just me. I'd have resigned him to a cheap, incentive-laden deal (which he was willing to do), and gone out to add a mid-level guy like Everett who could be a part-time DH.
No Jim Thome = No Paul Konerko.

You couldn't just offer Frank an incentive-laden deal because it was before the CBA change in which if the Sox didn't offer Frank arbitration (he made $8 million in 2005 so the he would be guaranteed at least $6.4 million,) they couldn't play him until May 1st (need some verification from Daver on this,) and there's no way he was going to sign a cheap incentive deal with the Sox and sit out for a month when Oakland had a spot open. By the time the Sox closed the door on him, Oakland was the only spot and they could offer him whatever and he really had nowhere to go as he is strictly a DH. I don't see how substituting Frank, Carl and Rowand will make up for Thome and Konerko. If the Sox had Thomas in 2006 even with Konerko, they wouldn't be leading the wild card going into September, they'd be at least 5 games behind because Frank was nowhere to be found in April when the Sox were off to a hot start thanks in part to a large month by Thome.

The A's winning a crappy division along with the Sox playing in the toughest division makes Frank a better MVP candidate that year than Jim Thome or anyone else on the Sox. Put the 2006 Oakland team in the AL Central and see how well they do or put the 2006 Sox team in the AL West (minus the A's) and see if they make the playoffs.

Carl Everett was complete garbage in 2006 and there's no way he would turn down the stupid deal the Mariners offered him to be a part time player with the Sox. He whined when he was moved out of the #3 hole in September 2005 despite a pathetic line of .206/.296/.353. If he's going to ***** and moan about a lineup spot, what in the world makes you think he'd be willing be a part time player?

batmanZoSo
02-07-2008, 08:29 PM
Trading a lead pipe, lock, first round Hall of Famer.

Who?

santo=dorf
02-07-2008, 08:30 PM
I must say it was rather disappointing to hear the Angels' GM question why KW didn't contact them BEFORE re-signing Uribe as he felt Orlando Cabrera (formal request for a filter on "O-Cab" :praying: ) was a perfect fit for the Sox.

A majority of WSI feels that Cabrera is a better shortstop than Tejada (naturally this opinion came after the trade,) yet despite his name ready to come out on the Mitchell report, he was able to net the O's 5 minor leaguers.

sox1970
02-07-2008, 08:30 PM
Who?

Didn't you hear? Fautino--lock.

FarWestChicago
02-07-2008, 08:31 PM
Who?DLS, of course. :cool:

MarySwiss
02-07-2008, 08:35 PM
I filled it out for you:cool:

And very nicely, too! :wink:

JB98
02-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Garland trade. Not a contest. All the other moves, I either like or am neutral on.

SoxNation05
02-07-2008, 09:03 PM
I must say it was rather disappointing to hear the Angels' GM question why KW didn't contact them BEFORE re-signing Uribe as he felt Orlando Cabrera (formal request for a filter on "O-Cab" :praying: ) was a perfect fit for the Sox.

A majority of WSI feels that Cabrera is a better shortstop than Tejada (naturally this opinion came after the trade,) yet despite his name ready to come out on the Mitchell report, he was able to net the O's 5 minor leaguers.
Thank You. You see how the Orioles traded a SS in trouble with the law (in the DR), on the Mitchell report and who had injuries throughout last season stripped the Astros minor league system while the Sox traded a number two starter for "a good fit".

A. Cavatica
02-07-2008, 09:13 PM
Who?

I think they're all lead pipe locks for the HoF.

VivaOzzie
02-07-2008, 09:15 PM
So? The chance of that prospect being one of the best prospects in our pathetic system is high. You don't get prospects only to reach the majors. You get them to acquire major league talent. Swisher, Quentin, Richar all gotten by guys who may not reach the majors. We lost a chip due to signing Linebrink.


You could look at it that way. Or you could look at it from the perspective that instead of "losing a chip," the Sox used the draft pick to acquire major league talent -- now instead of later on.

I for one am pretty excited to have Linebrink in the pen this year.

FarWestChicago
02-07-2008, 09:27 PM
Thank You. You see how the Orioles traded a SS in trouble with the law (in the DR), on the Mitchell report and who had injuries throughout last season stripped the Astros minor league system while the Sox traded a number two starter for "a good fit".So you're pissed at Kenny because he couldn't find as big of a dumbass as the Astros GM? The fact there is one complete idiot out there doesn't make all the other GM's complete idiots.

SoxNation05
02-07-2008, 09:35 PM
So you're pissed at Kenny because he couldn't find as big of a dumbass as the Astros GM? The fact there is one complete idiot out there doesn't make all the other GM's complete idiots.
Mariners front office signed Carlos Silva 4yr 48mil
Royals front office signed Jose Guillen 3yr 30 mil
Devils Rays front office traded Delmon Young for Garza and crap
Twins front office traded Santana for a bunch of low ceiling prospects
Sox front office trade Garland for OC
D-Backs traded the closer for nearly nothing
Phonex trade Marion and Banks for Shaq?????

There has been numerous stupid moves this offseason, as I can think of these off the top of my head. Some people value different players differently or give up to much to fill a need when pressured. I am not blaming KW for not finding "as big of a dumass as the Astros GM". I would have gladly kept Garland and not have three question marks in the rotation.

Flight #24
02-07-2008, 10:08 PM
You couldn't just offer Frank an incentive-laden deal because it was before the CBA change in which if the Sox didn't offer Frank arbitration (he made $8 million in 2005 so the he would be guaranteed at least $6.4 million,) they couldn't play him until May 1st (need some verification from Daver on this,) and there's no way he was going to sign a cheap incentive deal with the Sox and sit out for a month when Oakland had a spot open. By the time the Sox closed the door on him, Oakland was the only spot and they could offer him whatever and he really had nowhere to go as he is strictly a DH. I don't see how substituting Frank, Carl and Rowand will make up for Thome and Konerko.

I'm pretty sure that that's not 100% accurate. The Sox had the option to renegotiate his deal, tear up the team option, and replace it with pretty much whatever they wanted. Once the option deadline came around they were in the position you state, but prior to that they could have resigned him.

Heck, even if I know that it doesn't change the outcome, I'd still lean towards the greatest player in franchise history - if the Sox don't make the playoffs in either case I'd rather keep Frank than get Thome. Plus, who's to say that having Rowand instead of Anderson doesn't make up for that April Thome streak?

In general, I think that situation was handled poorly by the Sox. I hope they have the good sense to mend fences and treat Frank like the greatest player in team history, and possibly even go so far as to let him retire with the team. But as long as KW is GM, I doubt it.

FarWestChicago
02-07-2008, 10:12 PM
I am not blaming KW for not finding "as big of a dumass as the Astros GM". I would have gladly kept Garland and not have three question marks in the rotation.Those are contradictory statements in the context of all you have posted.

ChiSoxGirl
02-07-2008, 10:17 PM
The Garland trade. But I hope I eat my words.

Garland trade. No doubt.

Without a doubt Garland.....if we had some extra pitching, then I would be fine but we have 3 question marks coming into the year and I don't like it.

Garland trade. Not a contest. All the other moves, I either like or am neutral on.

Absolutely! I think we're going to miss Garland in the rotation more than KW believes we will.

Cuck the Fubs
02-07-2008, 10:22 PM
Asking this now, I would not change one move..........I expect the final piece of the puzzle to arrive towards the end of spring training with Joe Crede being dealt.

Let's revisit this one in October:smile:

sox1970
02-07-2008, 10:22 PM
Garland is a good pitcher, but as a baseball move, I understand where KW was coming from. He wasn't going to be with the Sox past 2008, so avoid the contract talks and the trade deadline speculation. Plus they think they can sign Cabrera long term. Good move if he signs for 3 years.

FedEx227
02-07-2008, 11:18 PM
Asking this now, I would not change one move..........I expect the final piece of the puzzle to arrive towards the end of spring training with Joe Crede being dealt.

Let's revisit this one in October:smile:

Exactly, the biggest thing I'll end of regretting (if we don't get it done) is having two 3B going into Opening Day, although I doubt that will happen.

santo=dorf
02-07-2008, 11:21 PM
Heck, even if I know that it doesn't change the outcome, I'd still lean towards the greatest player in franchise history - if the Sox don't make the playoffs in either case I'd rather keep Frank than get Thome. Plus, who's to say that having Rowand instead of Anderson doesn't make up for that April Thome streak?

I say so based on their April numbers and how much Thome had a huge impact on the lineup. Rowand wasn't that good in 2006 as he only had one great month (.999 OPS in May) and a decent April.

April 2006:
Thomas: .190/.264/.405 79AB's
Rowand: .304/.354/.446 92 AB's
Everett: .220/.343/.439 82 AB's

Konerko: .360/.433/.640 89 AB's
Thome: .300/.457/.713 80 AB's
Anderson: .161/.264/.290 62 AB's
That's not even close. Thome's SLG% alone was greater than Frank's OPS. Frank, an on base machine, put up the same OBP as the hated Brian Anderson. :o:

fozzy
02-07-2008, 11:38 PM
as much as i hate fat juan his re-signing is not a bad move even with trading for cabera. it looks like we're going to keep 12 pitchers that leaves only 4 spots open on the bench one has to go to a catcher, one to an outfielder, the other to pablo we need the other spot togo to someone who can start at 2nd, ss and 3rd.

if i could take one move back... probably re-signing jd. we need a lead-off hitter. i'd perfer a line-up of

cf- owens
ss-cabera
lf-swisher
1b-paulie
dh-thome
3b- fields
c- a.j.
rf-quentin
2b- richar

to what were gonna have

voodoochile
02-07-2008, 11:45 PM
as much as i hate fat juan his re-signing is not a bad move even with trading for cabera. it looks like we're going to keep 12 pitchers that leaves only 4 spots open on the bench one has to go to a catcher, one to an outfielder, the other to pablo we need the other spot togo to someone who can start at 2nd, ss and 3rd.

if i could take one move back... probably re-signing jd. we need a lead-off hitter. i'd perfer a line-up of

cf- owens
ss-cabera
lf-swisher
1b-paulie
dh-thome
3b- fields
c- a.j.
rf-quentin
2b- richar

to what were gonna have

You want to replace Dye's bat with Owens? Based on what, the hope that Owens can develop into a genuine leadoff hitter?

What's so horrible about:

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Fields
Pierzynski
Quentin
Richar

and forcing Owens to prove he belongs?

DumpJerry
02-08-2008, 12:18 AM
Let's revisit this one in October:smile:
Qutie true. This thread is about 8 months too soon.

santo=dorf
02-08-2008, 12:44 AM
Qutie true. This thread is about 8 months too soon.
Why bother? In October the poster will be slammed and receive a smartass response to his or her choice that'll be along the lines of "hindsight is 20/20." :rolleyes:

Flight #24
02-08-2008, 01:04 AM
I say so based on their April numbers and how much Thome had a huge impact on the lineup. Rowand wasn't that good in 2006 as he only had one great month (.999 OPS in May) and a decent April.

April 2006:
Thomas: .190/.264/.405 79AB's
Rowand: .304/.354/.446 92 AB's
Everett: .220/.343/.439 82 AB's

Konerko: .360/.433/.640 89 AB's
Thome: .300/.457/.713 80 AB's
Anderson: .161/.264/.290 62 AB's
That's not even close. Thome's SLG% alone was greater than Frank's OPS. Frank, an on base machine, put up the same OBP as the hated Brian Anderson. :o:

Konerko could still have been on the team. For example, if the Sox offered him $13M instead of $12 (having saved the difference between Thome's salary and Frank's).

I'll give you April, and maybe even the first half. But Frank came on strong as he recovered. And I wasn't saying they should have kept Everett, I'd have liked to have gotten someone else "ala Everett", I.e. a DH/OF that could sub for Frank early and then hit the bench.

Soxfanspcu11
02-08-2008, 01:14 AM
The Miguel Cabrera to the Tigers move.

Here Here!!!

I think that Cabrera and Willis going to Detoilet was the worst thing that occurred this offseason. I mean, getting just Cabrera is a HUGE Upgrade, but to get Willis as well?!?!? I mean, when I heard that that deal went down, I was like :o:. I just could not believe it had happened.

I'm holding on to the slight hope that Willis will not adjust well to the American League and that the much better offense in the American League will light him up. A slight hope I know.

Also hopping that Cabrera will get fatter and fatter and thus, negatively impact his ability. Speaking of that, have you guys seen a picture of Cabrera in 2003 and pictures of him now?? MY GOD!!! If you have not seen that comparrison, do yourself a favor and look it up, you will be shocked!!!!!

Anyway, I still don't know how Detoilet pulled that off! It just doesn't seem right. I know it's a stupid question, but why couldn't Kenny have pulled that one off?? Ahhhh, whatever, I guess we can just hope for the best this year and see what happens.:smile:

Oh yeah, I am also of the mindset that Owens should have to prove himself at the Major League level as well. I think people give him too much credit when he really has not done anything at the Major League level to show that he belongs.

moochpuppy
02-08-2008, 01:24 AM
I am not blaming KW for not finding "as big of a dumass as the Astros GM". I would have gladly kept Garland and not have three question marks in the rotation.

We may have a couple of question marks in the rotation but Garland was never an exclamation point.

How about this.....lets stop with the negative and see what the season brings? I'm willing to give KW the benefit of the doubt. He has, after all, only had one losing season as GM.

Dub25
02-08-2008, 01:31 AM
Hiring Jeff Cox to coach 3rd.

santo=dorf
02-08-2008, 02:13 AM
Konerko could still have been on the team. For example, if the Sox offered him $13M instead of $12 (having saved the difference between Thome's salary and Frank's).

I'll give you April, and maybe even the first half. But Frank came on strong as he recovered. And I wasn't saying they should have kept Everett, I'd have liked to have gotten someone else "ala Everett", I.e. a DH/OF that could sub for Frank early and then hit the bench.
Konerko said the Thome move is what convinced him to stay here. Could've, would've, should've, but I'll take Konerko's word for it. Especially how WSI uses the broad brush to paint Konerko as a Thomas hater based on his 2002 ASG comments.

munchman33
02-08-2008, 04:10 AM
*licks his chops*

Haha...nevermind. I'm not evening gonna say it.

fozzy
02-08-2008, 04:38 AM
You want to replace Dye's bat with Owens? Based on what, the hope that Owens can develop into a genuine leadoff hitter?

What's so horrible about:

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Fields
Pierzynski
Quentin
Richar

and forcing Owens to prove he belongs?

To me with swisher, thome, konerko, fields (hell included aj and quentin) we have more then enough power hitters that move station to station. cabrera scares the hell out of me as a lead-off hitter. last year he had a career year and only had an OBP of .345 his average OBP over his career is .321. that is not a lead-off hitter. this years sox reminds me of the 2004 team... god i hope i'm wrong.

instead of chasing hunter, aaron or jones we should have taken the 11 mil a year we spent on dye and instead find a lead-off hitter but we didn't. so our best option to me is owens take a look at his stats from his 2nd call up which was basically the 2nd half. owens BA was .278 with an OBP of .339 with 27 SB... right on-line with cabrera's career year.

CLR01
02-08-2008, 04:47 AM
I would give Rowdog a lifetime contract at $6 billion a year and give him full ownership of the team.

DumpJerry
02-08-2008, 08:20 AM
Qutie true. This thread is about 8 months too soon.

Why bother? In October the poster will be slammed and receive a smartass response to his or her choice that'll be along the lines of "hindsight is 20/20." :rolleyes:

Huh? We have to see how the season plays itself out to determine who, if anyone, is a trainwreck this season.

*licks his chops*

Haha...nevermind. I'm not evening gonna say it.
Alright, alright, I'll say it for you [quote=munchman33]Letting the Cubs sign Shingo[quote]

That wasn't so hard, was it?:redneck

TomBradley72
02-08-2008, 09:03 AM
I would have signed Aaron Rowand.

The move would have solved the CF problem we've had since the Thome trade and avoided the need to trade three top prospects for Swisher, so we could have preserved some of our farm system talent or used that talent to upgrade our pitching staff. The only issue seemed to be the 5th year...I would have rather given up the 5th year than give up Gio, Sweeney, etc. to Oakland.

TomBradley72
02-08-2008, 09:10 AM
I'm pretty sure that that's not 100% accurate. The Sox had the option to renegotiate his deal, tear up the team option, and replace it with pretty much whatever they wanted. Once the option deadline came around they were in the position you state, but prior to that they could have resigned him.

Heck, even if I know that it doesn't change the outcome, I'd still lean towards the greatest player in franchise history - if the Sox don't make the playoffs in either case I'd rather keep Frank than get Thome. Plus, who's to say that having Rowand instead of Anderson doesn't make up for that April Thome streak?

In general, I think that situation was handled poorly by the Sox. I hope they have the good sense to mend fences and treat Frank like the greatest player in team history, and possibly even go so far as to let him retire with the team. But as long as KW is GM, I doubt it.

The #1 issue on the WSox offense in 2005 was lack of production from the DH slot. Everett had tailed off significantly in the 2nd half, Thomas had his 2nd consecutive season of being injured most of the time. We were going for a second ring...resigning Thomas and setting us up for another year of instability at a key offensive position was not really an option.

voodoochile
02-08-2008, 10:57 AM
To me with swisher, thome, konerko, fields (hell included aj and quentin) we have more then enough power hitters that move station to station. cabrera scares the hell out of me as a lead-off hitter. last year he had a career year and only had an OBP of .345 his average OBP over his career is .321. that is not a lead-off hitter. this years sox reminds me of the 2004 team... god i hope i'm wrong.

instead of chasing hunter, aaron or jones we should have taken the 11 mil a year we spent on dye and instead find a lead-off hitter but we didn't. so our best option to me is owens take a look at his stats from his 2nd call up which was basically the 2nd half. owens BA was .278 with an OBP of .339 with 27 SB... right on-line with cabrera's career year.

Who's the elusive leadoff hitter who was available in FA you would have signed?

soxfan13
02-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Well, I guess I'm the only one that would rather see how a move played out before regretting it. Oh well.

Now that would be no fun!!!!! DOOM AND GLOOM BABY!!!!!!:tongue:

santo=dorf
02-08-2008, 07:27 PM
Erik Bedard was traded for 5 minor leaguers, a couple of them are pretty well touted. Now, I'm not saying Garland is as good or better than Bedard, but he is very consistent and eats up alot of innings whereas Bedard is an injury risk, has never thrown more than 200 innings and really has one great and one pretty good season under his belt and will be a free agent in 2 years. So is it out of the realm to suggest the Sox undersold Jon Garland?

jcw218
02-08-2008, 09:55 PM
Erik Bedard was traded for 5 minor leaguers, a couple of them are pretty well touted. Now, I'm not saying Garland is as good or better than Bedard, but he is very consistent and eats up alot of innings whereas Bedard is an injury risk, has never thrown more than 200 innings and really has one great and one pretty good season under his belt and will be a free agent in 2 years. So is it out of the realm to suggest the Sox undersold Jon Garland?

Bedard, i believe, is signed through the 2009 season as opposed to Garland being a free agent after 2008. Bedard is also left handed. The mariners are getting two years of Bedard while the Angels are only guaranteed one year of Garland.

santo=dorf
02-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Bedard, i believe, is signed through the 2009 season as opposed to Garland being a free agent after 2008. Bedard is also left handed. The mariners are getting two years of Bedard while the Angels are only guaranteed one year of Garland.
I said he'd be a free agent in two years, so the left handed-ness and extra year make up the differences in the two packages? It doesn't matter what arm you throw with if you are on the DL. Compare the package Jason Jennings fetched for the Rockies last year and compare it to the Garcia and Garland trades.

spawn
02-08-2008, 10:36 PM
Yep, that's my--and I think Spawn's--point. You just never know, so speculating before the season even starts--before ST ever starts--is futile.

Bingo. I remember not too long ago, people were wanting Jon Garland traded for a bag of balls. Now, it's like we've traded away Christy Matthewson. Bottom line...you can't regret a move before you see the end result of the move.

Frater Perdurabo
02-09-2008, 07:16 AM
Looking back, I would have tried to keep and re-sign Garland and offered PK to the Angels for Cabrera and Willits. That would have solved SS and CF/leadoff, and allowed Swisher to play first base.

santo=dorf
02-09-2008, 04:03 PM
What is this fantasy with Swisher playing first base? This actually would make him one of the worst offensive first basemen in baseball. Take a look at last year in Konerko's "down" year. He still beat out Swisher in OPS.

Domeshot17
02-09-2008, 06:56 PM
Overall I am very happy with this offseason. We got a good deal for Garland. Garland is a middle of the road starting pitcher. We got a gold glove SS with good speed who is a good top of the lineup hitter and knows how to run the bases.

At some point your prospect pitchers have to contribute in order to win. In this kind of market you can no longer just buy a rotation like we did in 2005. You have to get contributions from your young guns like Danks Floyd and Broadway.

I don't know what world people live in thinking Garland could get the same return Eric Bedard did. Bedard was a CY Young calibur pitcher on a terrible team. Garland won games, but did so with a very average era. He got a lot of help

munchman33
02-09-2008, 07:06 PM
What is this fantasy with Swisher playing first base? This actually would make him one of the worst offensive first basemen in baseball. Take a look at last year in Konerko's "down" year. He still beat out Swisher in OPS.

Defensively, he plays it well.

areilly
02-09-2008, 08:17 PM
Heck, even if I know that it doesn't change the outcome, I'd still lean towards the greatest player in franchise history - if the Sox don't make the playoffs in either case I'd rather keep Frank than get Thome. Plus, who's to say that having Rowand instead of Anderson doesn't make up for that April Thome streak?

In general, I think that situation was handled poorly by the Sox. I hope they have the good sense to mend fences and treat Frank like the greatest player in team history, and possibly even go so far as to let him retire with the team. But as long as KW is GM, I doubt it.


Why does this keep coming up? "The greatest player in team history." So what? He hadn't been the greatest player on the active roster since his 2000 season, and had only played two full seasons since then. He was an ass to KW, KW was an ass to him, and Frank was pretty much dead weight as far as anyone - front office, fans, other players - could tell. Nostalgia aside, there was no reason to keep him on the team, especially with Thome available. None.

None.

fquaye149
02-09-2008, 08:22 PM
I would have opened up the checkbook a little more for Hunter, but if it's true that Kenny had no idea the Angels were going to swoop in, then there's really nothing that could have been done about that.

But if we had gotten Hunter, I would think this team would have a much different look.

Or not.

It's really kind of a lame business secondguessing sports transactions since there's no way to prove what would have happened. Even if Hunter breaks his ankle on opening day and never plays again it won't mean we shouldn't have signed him, nor does his becoming a hall of fame talent in anaheim mean we should have paid top dollar.

Or maybe it does. I don't like this game.

russ99
02-10-2008, 09:58 AM
So you're pissed at Kenny because he couldn't find as big of a dumbass as the Astros GM? The fact there is one complete idiot out there doesn't make all the other GM's complete idiots.

Ya know, this is the same BS that you guys were coming up with for the potential Garland deal to Houston last year. What works for one team may not work for another. The Sox and Astros have completely different needs and expectations for this season.

Even if he goes to jail I'm glad the Astros got Tejada, despite trading 1 good pitching prospect, a part time outfielder and 3 throw-ins for him - not the spectacular package it may seem. He'll do well there and they also got rid of the worst hitter in the NL, Adam Everett.

I'm 100% behind the Garland deal, as he'd likely leave us as a FA to go to the west coast anyway. Also, we got Cabrera, who is exactly what we needed - a great average and on-base guy to solidify the #2 spot and a gold-glove SS who won't take plays, days and weeks off.

I only wish that we could have gotten rid of Uribe first, and brought in a vet starter to replace Jon, since I'm not sold on the kids.

nug0hs
02-11-2008, 11:05 AM
Trading Thomas Jones to the Jets.

Oops, wrong offseason thread :o:

Mohoney
02-11-2008, 07:31 PM
The Garland trade. But I hope I eat my words.

I just hope Juan Uribe DOESN'T eat them. His inability to put down the fork is the reason we needed to trade Garland in the first place.

If Juan Uribe would have done what he was supposed to do, and could be relied upon, we wouldn't have been forced to trade a reliable starter.

TheVulture
02-12-2008, 02:21 PM
I would have signed Aaron Rowand.

The move would have solved the CF problem we've had since the Thome trade and avoided the need to trade three top prospects for Swisher, so we could have preserved some of our farm system talent or used that talent to upgrade our pitching staff.

Even if the Sox had signed Rowand, the Swisher trade would still have been a great move. I also like the Uribe signing - with unproven players likely at 3rd and 2nd base, I like having a vet on the bench who can play those positions well. I really wouldn't take any of the moves back, maybe I'm just drinking KW kool aid.