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View Full Version : Clemens could be in deep trouble.


mrfourni
02-06-2008, 03:48 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3233878

Apparantly McNamee held on to some of his evidence implicating Roger.


McNamee kept the vials, gauze pads and syringes from the 2000 and 2001 seasons because he feared Clemens would deny using performance-enhancing drugs, the source told the Daily News.


I can't wait until Mike and Admitted Steroid User Mike react to this news after today saying they are inclined to believe Roger.

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 03:49 PM
That's pretty big...I wonder what Clemens will say to say that he never did and I wonder if he will swear he's telling the truth:rolleyes:

spawn
02-06-2008, 03:50 PM
You knew he had to have some kind of evidence compelling Mitchell to believe him. Roger will problaby go the "I didn't know he was injecting me with steroids" route.

Oblong
02-06-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm thinking of that scene in The Fugitive after the train wreck when they find the leg shackles and ask the Prison Guard:

"Care to refine your statement?"

"What??"

"Do you want to change your bull**** story?"

RedHeadPaleHoser
02-06-2008, 03:51 PM
I just keep waiting for Roger to forget how to speak English. That should smooth things right over.

No teal implied.

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 03:51 PM
If this is true and they can get his DNA off of the syringes, he's ****ed. Like Barry Bonds ****ed. Like go directly to jail, do not enter the HOF, do not collect $20M for pitching part time next year ****ed.

And it gives me great pleasure to say so...

What a douche...

spawn
02-06-2008, 03:54 PM
If this is true and they can get his DNA off of the syringes, he's ****ed. Like Barry Bonds ****ed. Like go directly to jail, do not enter the HOF, do not collect $20M for pitching part time next year ****ed.

Word.

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 03:56 PM
If this is true and they can get his DNA off of the syringes, he's ****ed. Like Barry Bonds ****ed. Like go directly to jail, do not enter the HOF, do not collect $20M for pitching part time next year ****ed.

And it gives me great pleasure to say so...

What a douche...
I totatly agree. Kiss his ass goodbye. I like all the times you used ****:smile:

skottyj242
02-06-2008, 03:57 PM
If this is true and they can get his DNA off of the syringes, he's ****ed. Like Barry Bonds ****ed. Like go directly to jail, do not enter the HOF, do not collect $20M for pitching part time next year ****ed.

And it gives me great pleasure to say so...

What a douche...

How is Bonds ****ed?

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 04:00 PM
How is Bonds ****ed?
Because even though he said he didn't know what is was, he still took something illegally. Plus there's no way a guy gets that big and starts putting up huge #'s when he is suppose to be in a decline of his career.

jenn2080
02-06-2008, 04:03 PM
Word.


What you said.

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:03 PM
How is Bonds ****ed?
Because Bonds was indicted for lying to a grand jury. He's ****ed.

Bucky F. Dent
02-06-2008, 04:03 PM
That's pretty big...I wonder what Clemens will say to say that he never did and I wonder if he will swear he's telling the truth:rolleyes:


A one word modification to his current speech:

"I never knowingly used steroids."

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 04:03 PM
Because Bonds was indicted for lying to a grand jury. He's ****ed.
Did he really? I never heard that.

mrfourni
02-06-2008, 04:04 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:uY2W5Y8ZYOLBkM:http://eastwindupchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/waldman.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://eastwindupchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/waldman.jpg&imgrefurl=http://eastwindupchronicle.com/day-3-yankees-loss-still-pretty-darn-fun/&h=173&w=150&sz=13&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=uY2W5Y8ZYOLBkM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsuzyn%2Bwaldman%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den)
"Roger is sitting in a jail cell next to Barry Bonds. Oh my goodness gracious!"

skottyj242
02-06-2008, 04:06 PM
Because even though he said he didn't know what is was, he still took something illegally. Plus there's no way a guy gets that big and starts putting up huge #'s when he is suppose to be in a decline of his career.

Yeah, well that is your opinion. Just because someone gets bigger as they get older doesn't mean anything. This argument is so dead and has been beaten to death that I don't want to rehash it again. I'm sure your argument would hold up in court well, you should be a lawyer.

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 04:06 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:uY2W5Y8ZYOLBkM:http://eastwindupchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/waldman.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://eastwindupchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/waldman.jpg&imgrefurl=http://eastwindupchronicle.com/day-3-yankees-loss-still-pretty-darn-fun/&h=173&w=150&sz=13&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=uY2W5Y8ZYOLBkM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsuzyn%2Bwaldman%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den)
"Roger is sitting in a jail cell next to Barry Bonds. Oh my goodness gracious!"
I would get a picture of that and put it in a plaque and put it on my wall to walk by it everyday.

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:07 PM
Did he really? I never heard that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112487

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 04:09 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112487
Oh wow, that was a while ago....where have I been. Thanks

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:20 PM
The **** people will do to stay out of jail.......Hopefully, they bust BM for perjury and his sentence is much longer........

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:22 PM
The **** people will do to stay out of jail.......
You mean like hold on to evidence of someone's wrongdoing in case they try to **** you over? What the **** was he thinking? :rolleyes:

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:24 PM
You mean like hold on to evidence of someone's wrongdoing in case they try to **** you over? What the **** was he thinking? :rolleyes:

You don't think that **** would be public knowledge by now? I hope that scumbag raping, dope peddler gets his in prison.

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:28 PM
You don't think that **** would be public knowledge by now?
Um, no. I guess he was stupid enough to think that piece of **** Clemens would tell the truth. Instead, Clemens is a lying ***** that's about to get what's coming to him.

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 04:31 PM
You don't think that **** would be public knowledge by now? I hope that scumbag raping, dope peddler gets his in prison.

:rolling:

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Um, no. I guess he was stupid enough to think that piece of **** Clemens would tell the truth. Instead, he's a lying ***** that's about to get what's coming to him.

Keep dreaming........Any proof of Clemens would be public considering the amount of people already called before Congress to discuss the Mitchell report ..........

Lip Man 1
02-06-2008, 04:32 PM
Perhaps those on the site with a legal background could explain what actions if any either MLB or the Congress could take to force Clemens to give a blood / DNA sample.

I'm assuming he wouldn't be compelled to, meaning it's still his word against the other guys.

Although this 'evidence' seems pretty convincing to me.

Lip

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:33 PM
Keep dreaming........Any proof of Clemens would be public considering the amount of people already called before Congress to discuss the Mitchell report ..........
Your hero is going down. Deal with it. :wink:

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:33 PM
:rolling:

Yep, and I have the Holy Grail buried in my basement.......prove me wrong....

FedEx227
02-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Yeah, well that is your opinion. Just because someone gets bigger as they get older doesn't mean anything. This argument is so dead and has been beaten to death that I don't want to rehash it again. I'm sure your argument would hold up in court well, you should be a lawyer.

No it wouldn't work in the court of law, but in the court of public opinion the evidence is huge.

His shoe size got larger at age 34..... Age 34. I've been 10.5 since I was 11.

His hat size got dramatically different.

His height actually increased at the supposed time he took steroids.

None of those things are natural to happen in your late 30s, that's not to mention the ridiculous amount of lean muscle mass his body took on when most peoples bodies are breaking down.

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Keep dreaming........Any proof of Clemens would be public considering the amount of people already called before Congress to discuss the Mitchell report ..........

Right because people always disclose all of their evidence to newspaper reporters when involved in big federal cases where they are testifying against rich powerful people.

I love the drug pusher stuff though. I can just see that scene...

BM: Roger, take the damned drugs and pay me the ****ing money or I'm gonna kick your ass until you bleed.

RC: Oh... er... um... sorry Mr. McNamee, please don't hurt me. I'll pay you. I swear. You can inject me with the poison, just please don't hurt me. I beg you... please. I've got a wife, children. I'll do anything... ANYTHING...

BM: That's a good little MLB superstar, now bend over and drop those pants...

Nellie_Fox
02-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Yep, and I have the Holy Grail buried in my basement.......prove me wrong....Everybody knows that the Masons have it.:neener:

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:38 PM
BM: Roger, take the damned drugs and pay me the ****ing money or I'm gonna kick your ass until you bleed.

RC: Oh... er... um... sorry Mr. McNamee, please don't hurt me. I'll pay you. I swear. You can inject me with the poison, just please don't hurt me. I beg you... please. I've got a wife, children. I'll do anything... ANYTHING...

BM: That's a good little MLB superstar, now bend over and drop those pants...
Sounds like a conversation Clemens will soon be having in the prison yard...

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:39 PM
Your hero is going down. Deal with it. :wink:

As I've already stated, I think Clemens is a dick and probably did HGH. That said, I'm not going to take the word of some scumbag, dope peddling, rapist, trying to keep his ass out jail, as golden......

Fenway
02-06-2008, 04:40 PM
This has exploded back east

Mike Lupica has a web column

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/02/06/2008-02-06_will_dna_evidence_make_a_liar_out_of_rog.html

The Daily News story ( that they broke on the web not in print )

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/02/06/2008-02-06_lawyers_mcnamee_has_physical_evidence_li.html

Gammons on ESPN Boston said that he was told by a close friend of Roger before Christmas that Roger is fighting this because he does not want his 4 sons or wife to learn the truth. That and that alone is driving him. Peter has remained silent for now about this waiting to see if Roger would swear under oath.

I have suspected since the day the report came out that there was a 'smoking gun". George Mitchell is not stupid and would not risk his name being tarnished unless he had something solid. Now it appears that he just might.

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 04:41 PM
Yep, and I have the Holy Grail buried in my basement.......prove me wrong....

If ESPN reports you turned over the Holy Grail to the Vatican, I might be inclined to.

All you've got going for you is your hero worship and a twisted sense of what constitutes fair play...

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:44 PM
If ESPN reports you turned over the Holy Grail to the Vatican, I might be inclined to.

All you've got going for you is your hero worship and a twisted sense of what constitutes fair play...

Great, now we can conclude that everything that ESPN reports is the truth. I guess we can move past 2008 for the White Sox if that's true..........

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Great, now we can conclude that everything that ESPN reports is the truth. I guess we can move past 2008 for the White Sox if that's true..........

Reports, not predicts. Come on, quit acting this obtuse...:rolleyes:

FedEx227
02-06-2008, 04:47 PM
As I've already stated, I think Clemens is a dick and probably did HGH. That said, I'm not going to take the word of some scumbag, dope peddling, rapist, trying to keep his ass out jail, as golden......

Guess what. The scumbag, dope peddling, rapist got fired by the Yankees. 3 months later though the scumbag, dope peddling, rapist was hired by Roger Clemens as a personal trainer, Clemens knowing full well this guy was a scumbag, dope peddling, rapist.

I hate when people say that. Great he's a scumbag, no ****, but the fact remains CLEMENS PERSONALLY re-hired the scumbag.

champagne030
02-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Reports, not predicts. Come on, quit acting this obtuse...:rolleyes:

You want to hang your hat on McNamee go nuts.....I'd like something a little more credible.:smile:

spawn
02-06-2008, 04:50 PM
Guess what. The scumbag, dope peddling, rapist got fired by the Yankees. 3 months later though the scumbag, dope peddling, rapist was hired by Roger Clemens as a personal trainer, Clemens knowing full well this guy was a scumbag, dope peddling, rapist.

I hate when people say that. Great he's a scumbag, no ****, but the fact remains CLEMENS PERSONALLY re-hired the scumbag.
I guess Clemens loves his scumbag, dope peddling rapists.

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 04:54 PM
You want to hang your hat on McNamee go nuts.....I'd like something a little more credible.:smile:

I'm not going to hang it on McNamee, but if the syringes, gauze pads and steroid bottles come back with Roger's DNA on them, what will you say then?

FedEx227
02-06-2008, 04:56 PM
I'm not going to hang it on McNamee, but if the syringes, gauze pads and steroid bottles come back with Roger's DNA on them, what will you say then?

The scumbag, rapist must have raped someone with similar DNA to Roger. Remember he's a scumbag and a rapist, how could he ever tell the truth.

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 04:57 PM
The scumbag, rapist must have raped someone with similar DNA to Roger. Remember he's a scumbag and a rapist, how could he ever tell the truth.

Damned lowlife dope pushing rapist scumbags... they never stay bought...

WhiteSox5187
02-06-2008, 05:05 PM
You want to hang your hat on McNamee go nuts.....I'd like something a little more credible.:smile:
The only thing that lends any credibility to what McNamee is saying is that the fact that Pettite came out and said "Yea, he's right, I DID do steroids." Why would McNamee lie about Clemens and tell the truth about Pettite?

As for the Gammons story, if the only reason Rogers is doing this is to "keep his family from the truth" he's gone waayy too far. If he lies under oath to Congress he's looking at jail time, all he had to do was say "No, I didn't do steroids" and keep it to a he said-he said sort of thing and he could have avoided jail time. When and if Congress would have subpoenaed him....then it gets tricky. And his lawyer has done a bad job if he knew that Clemens knowingly perjured himself.

Fenway
02-06-2008, 05:08 PM
Let's be clear about something.

This is not ESPN reporting this it is the New York Daily News which has broken more stories about MLB problems than any source other than the San Francisco Chronicle.

Right now I will bet the ranch that Clemens lawyer is on the phone with him saying.

"OK you got to tell me everything NOW"

Why would McNamee keep all this crap for years is another question.....

Lip....Congress or MLB can not force Clemens to do anything BUT if he does refuses to give a blood sample and or DNA then the court of public opnion will have sailed on him forever.

and Congress can then give everything to a US Attorney for possible perjury.

Look...the Feds are fickle about some things. They let Whitey Bulger get away with who knows what but DO NOT LIE TO THEM That is what Martha Stewart was jailed for, that is what Barry Bonds is facing as well.

Most legal experts have said McNamee has some of the finest legal minds in the City of New York, Clemens has a hot shot from Harris County, Texas.

Roger is in big trouble now.

spawn
02-06-2008, 05:09 PM
The only thing that lends any credibility to what McNamee is saying is that the fact that Pettite came out and said "Yea, he's right, I DID do steroids." Why would McNamee lie about Clemens and tell the truth about Pettite?

Becasue he's a scumbag, dope peddling rapist.:redneck

champagne030
02-06-2008, 05:10 PM
The scumbag, rapist must have raped someone with similar DNA to Roger. Remember he's a scumbag and a rapist, how could he ever tell the truth.

Damned lowlife dope pushing rapist scumbags... they never stay bought...

Where's the evidence? ESPN REPORTS that a scumbag, dope peddling, rapist, who is facing jail, turns up with proof some else did drugs and it's not his fault........

gogosox16
02-06-2008, 05:13 PM
Becasue he's a scumbag, dope peddling rapist.:redneck
makes perfect sense.

EndemicSox
02-06-2008, 05:13 PM
Accuse the accuser, the last resort...but it 'aint working this time. Clemens could have salvaged his HOF chances by coming clean, but not now, his legacy is beyond ruined...

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Where's the evidence? ESPN REPORTS that a scumbag, dope peddling, rapist, who is facing jail, turns up with proof some else did drugs and it's not his fault........


Nevermind, you believe what you want to, I'm done discussing this with you.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt you know...:rolleyes:

I guess we'll both just have to wait and see what happens if/when the physical evidence does get tested.

I'm anxious to hear what you have to say then if it comes back bad news for Roger.

Fenway, getting someone to submit DNA isn pretty common especially if there is a compelling reason to do so. It's not invasive and thus most courts grant the subpoenas fairly easily. In this case with eyewitness testimony and physical evidence to compare with Roger's DNA, I imagine he'll be compelled to submit it...

FedEx227
02-06-2008, 05:17 PM
Where's the evidence? ESPN REPORTS that a scumbag, dope peddling, rapist, who is facing jail, turns up with proof some else did drugs and it's not his fault........


Up until this point there hadn't been a need for physical evidence. He was told to speak to to Mitchell under oath, he's done that.

He's had a recorded tape message with Clemens where he clearly indicates that he has no ill-will towards Clemens effectively ruining Clemens' defamation suit (NY Times vs. Sullivan, need to show malice towards public figures).

He told the truth about Pettitte and still that's not enough for you to even half-way consider that this guy might be telling some amount of truth?

The evidence is there, it's not concrete yet but no case is ever solved in 2-3 weeks, it takes time and to me slowly and slowly Clemens story is falling apart. The scumbag rapist has times, dates, years, amounts, types... what does Clemens have "Respect me, I'm a former Cy-Young winner" or "B-12, I take it for my joints".

champagne030
02-06-2008, 05:26 PM
Nevermind, you believe what you want to, I'm done discussing this with you.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt you know...:rolleyes:

I guess we'll both just have to wait and see what happens if/when the physical evidence does get tested.

I'm anxious to hear what you have to say then if it comes back bad news for Roger.

Fenway, getting someone to submit DNA isn pretty common especially if there is a compelling reason to do so. It's not invasive and thus most courts grant the subpoenas fairly easily. In this case with eyewitness testimony and physical evidence to compare with Roger's DNA, I imagine he'll be compelled to submit it...

And I'll be waiting for a retraction when Clemens isn't charged.......They find DNA and Juice, with no mixture of B12 (or whatever) on a needle then I'll say McNamee wasn't just trying to reduce his prison time.

Fenway
02-06-2008, 05:27 PM
As for the Gammons story, if the only reason Rogers is doing this is to "keep his family from the truth" he's gone waayy too far. If he lies under oath to Congress he's looking at jail time, all he had to do was say "No, I didn't do steroids" and keep it to a he said-he said sort of thing and he could have avoided jail time. When and if Congress would have subpoenaed him....then it gets tricky. And his lawyer has done a bad job if he knew that Clemens knowingly perjured himself.

One thing I can say about Roger is that he is from all accounts a wonderful father to his boys. Roger lost his Dad at a very early age and that affected him in ways we can never know. He is devoted to his 4 boys.

One of them a couple of weeks ago was interviewed by the media ( I think it was Kody but it might have been Koby, Kodachrome, Kornonthekob as I get all the K's mixed up ) and he defended his father the way a son would.

So I can see how the family issue could drive Roger.

I notice Rusty Hardin as yet to add Roger to his roster of clients on his website.

http://www.rustyhardin.com/clients_case.asp?page=3

Hardin may be a Ben Matlock in Harris County, Texas but could be way overmatched on a bigger stage. The phone call stunt was bizzare to say the least.

mantis1212
02-06-2008, 05:28 PM
Whether or not Roger used (which I believe he did), how much proof could this guy possibly have? This evidence of pads and syringes, etc. could easily be shot down. Think about it- he could have easily used the needles on Roger and put steriods in them afterwards. The stuff could easily be doctored.

spawn
02-06-2008, 05:30 PM
One thing I can say about Roger is that he is from all accounts a wonderful father to his boys. Roger lost his Dad at a very early age and that affected him in ways we can never know. He is devoted to his 4 boys.

One of them a couple of weeks ago was interviewed by the media ( I think it was Kody but it might have been Koby, Kodachrome, Kornonthekob as I get all the K's mixed up ) and he defended his father the way a son would.

So I can see how the family issue could drive Roger.

So, instead of being honest and coming clean about his steroid use, he'd rather lie and risk a perjury charge. What a great example he's setting for his kids.

Palehose Pete
02-06-2008, 05:34 PM
I'm thinking of that scene in The Fugitive after the train wreck when they find the leg shackles and ask the Prison Guard:

"Care to refine your statement?"

"What??"

"Do you want to change your bull**** story?"

:rolling:

Nice!

Fenway
02-06-2008, 05:38 PM
So, instead of being honest and coming clean about his steroid use, he'd rather lie and risk a perjury charge. What a great example he's setting for his kids.

I never said that Roger was the brightest bulb on the planet.

FedEx227
02-06-2008, 05:40 PM
Hardin may be a Ben Matlock in Harris County, Texas but could be way overmatched on a bigger stage. The phone call stunt was bizzare to say the least.

It was beyond stupid because it eliminated any potential for malice to be involved.

WhiteSox5187
02-06-2008, 05:41 PM
Whether or not Roger used (which I believe he did), how much proof could this guy possibly have? This evidence of pads and syringes, etc. could easily be shot down. Think about it- he could have easily used the needles on Roger and put steriods in them afterwards. The stuff could easily be doctored.
Well...there are ways one can test for all of this.

champagne030
02-06-2008, 05:46 PM
So, instead of being honest and coming clean about his steroid use, he'd rather lie and risk a perjury charge. What a great example he's setting for his kids.

No, Brian would rather help his kids and keep his ass out of jail, after avoiding jail time for rape and illegal drug distribution.

Fenway
02-06-2008, 05:50 PM
It was beyond stupid because it eliminated any potential for malice to be involved.

At this point I really don't know what to believe.

IF he didn't use steroids however then he mailed it for 3 1/2 years with the Red Sox between 1993-6. That might even be worse than using enhancers.

FedEx227
02-06-2008, 05:54 PM
At this point I really don't know what to believe.


Well it doesn't matter what aspect of it is true or not. By playing a tape recording of McNamee (the raping creator of Global Warming, etc) saying "I love you man, I love you" pretty much renders Hardin's defamation lawsuit completely worthless because McNamee clearly didn't use any malice in saying what he did.

johnnyg83
02-06-2008, 05:55 PM
Tank McNamara's been mirroring Clemens' visit to Washington.

http://www.gocomics.com/tankmcnamara/2008/02/05/

I like how he threw in "checks" in the first panel. Almost too quick to notice.

jabrch
02-06-2008, 08:57 PM
This is awesome. I hope Clemens gets nailed to the stake and exposed as being a complete and total fraud.

At some point, I'd like to see his Cy Youngs and Giambi's MVPs revoked...

Lying, Cheating Bastard.

DrCrawdad
02-06-2008, 09:12 PM
Right because people always disclose all of their evidence to newspaper reporters when involved in big federal cases where they are testifying against rich powerful people.

I love the drug pusher stuff though. I can just see that scene...

BM: Roger, take the damned drugs and pay me the ****ing money or I'm gonna kick your ass until you bleed.

RC: Oh... er... um... sorry Mr. McNamee, please don't hurt me. I'll pay you. I swear. You can inject me with the poison, just please don't hurt me. I beg you... please. I've got a wife, children. I'll do anything... ANYTHING...

BM: That's a good little MLB superstar, now bend over and drop those pants...

You're on a roll!

TheOldRoman
02-06-2008, 09:50 PM
Because Bonds was indicted for lying to a grand jury. He's ****ed.
Not only that, but an angry little man called tax fraud is also knocking on Barry's door. I read Game of Shadows (which I highly recommend), and in it they detail part of his tax fraud. He would sign at card shows and get $10,000 in cash each time. He would then give it to his mistress so she could save up to buy a house. Who knows how many thousands in taxes he skipped. If he doesn't get thrown in jail for perjury, the IRS might get him.

TheOldRoman
02-06-2008, 09:53 PM
Perhaps those on the site with a legal background could explain what actions if any either MLB or the Congress could take to force Clemens to give a blood / DNA sample.

I'm assuming he wouldn't be compelled to, meaning it's still his word against the other guys.

Although this 'evidence' seems pretty convincing to me.

LipThey might not need to. MLB already has his urine.

When congress got into the steroid mess originally, they threated that if MLB didn't cooperate, they would subpoena all positive tests, and then subpoena the secret list of the players names corresponding to the sample numbers (because nobody knew who was who). Apparently, the lab has kept their samples.

Soxfanspcu11
02-06-2008, 10:12 PM
If this ends up being true, that he kept the syringes and other paraphenalia and they can get the DNA or whatever then this is great! I was so sick and tired of seeing Roger go on the defensive and act like he had no idea what was going on.

And the people, like Mike and Mike who said that they believed him. I mean, COME ON! Just because he raises hell and doesn't admit his use, he is innocent??? *****!!

If he held onto the syringes, knowing that Roger would probably lie, then that really speaks volumes about Roger's character. Or lack there of.

Huisj
02-06-2008, 10:31 PM
I still can't quite figure out why he would have syringes and gauze from years ago?

Soxfanspcu11
02-06-2008, 10:37 PM
I still can't quite figure out why he would have syringes and gauze from years ago?

Because he knew Roger Clemens was a piece of garbage and knew that if it ever came up, Roger would do whatever he could to get out if it.

So, instead of it being a He said/He said, there is actually some physical proof of what really happened.

Oblong
02-06-2008, 11:07 PM
this is where you just have to use common sense. If it can be proven that there's traces of his DNA and steroids on the stuff he handed over then that pretty much is proof. I'm sure they can test to see how long it's been on there.

So the only way out at that point for Roger is to claim he added it after injecting him with B12 and lidocaine. Now the question is.... why would McNamee do that? If he's not using steroids then he's not injecting him with steroids so there'd be no reason to make everybody think he used them at one time. There's nothing to cover up. He can tell the truth if the truth was he never injected him. He kept it to cover his butt and we all know now that he had good reason to do that.

Once it comes out then Roger will say "Well I didn't know it was steroids. I didn't ask for it. He put it in me on his own. I wondered why I had so much shrinkage."

He's toast.

Flight #24
02-06-2008, 11:40 PM
Just curious, but how would one prove that the syringe had steroids in it when Roger was injected? He's already admitted to getting B12 and lidocaine shots from McNamee. So assume he gives DNA and it matches something on a syringe with HGH in it. He says "I don't know what he did with the B12 syringes he gave me afterwards, he may have tampered with them".

I know it's a weak story, I'm just wondering if it's enough to keep him out of jail.

For the record, I think he used the junk. I'm just not so sure that the evidence is going to be as strong as everyone else does. This is basically 1 guys word against another. It's not like Bonds, where there's a strong trail of documentary evidence. If there's Clemens blood and the blood contains HGH/roids, that's one thing. But a syringe from years ago with traces of both substances on it seems like it would be insufficient to jail a guy.

Oblong
02-06-2008, 11:43 PM
I would think they could tell how old the stuff is. If it's got his DNA and has steroids or HGH on it and both samples are of the same "age" then what can you conclude? If there's more than one person's DNA on it then an argument could be made that the needle was resused. Or if it's just his DNA you could say that the junk was put on afterwards, but around the same time. But why would he do that? Why would he want to make it look like his client was using HGH or steroids? That doesn't make him look good. He'd only add it if Roger was clean. Why dirty him if he's clean? Blackmail?

ksimpson14
02-06-2008, 11:46 PM
McNamee is no less of a douche. He's acting like nothing happened and then crying to be his friend on the phone after ratting him out, and if this is true, he's saving the materials of the athletes he's juicing up, so if he gets caught for his illegal activity, he can rat and try to take the heat off of himself. There's no other reason to save it unless he's making it up. Yeah, the athletes have the blame and also did something illegal, but it just kind of annoys me, be a man and take your own punishment in jail and let everyone else worry about themselves



And honestly, I like guys like Clemens and the athletes better than a guy like McNamee. Yeah, they took the stuff, did something illegal, cheated, but they know the risk and will pay the price from what the stuff they're taking is going to do to them alone (see wrestlers). Does McNamee still go to jail even if he's right and named other names? If not, that's the rat aspect that annoys me.

Frontman
02-06-2008, 11:48 PM
I'm thinking of that scene in The Fugitive after the train wreck when they find the leg shackles and ask the Prison Guard:

"Care to refine your statement?"

"What??"

"Do you want to change your bull**** story?"

I thought I was the only one who quoted that scene every time a celeb/sports superstar gets busted.

Between that scene, and the scene from "Heat" where Hank Azaria asks himself:

"How did I get into this mess?"

And Al Pacino's response is what I think when celebs start their BS routine.

There's that, and then the standard, "They found God," part of their apologies. It's always good viewing.

Frontman
02-06-2008, 11:50 PM
And the people, like Mike and Mike who said that they believed him. I mean, COME ON! Just because he raises hell and doesn't admit his use, he is innocent??? *****!!


Keep in mind, this is the same company who employs those who utter the phrase, "I understand that he choked a student athlete, but I want to remember Bob Knight in a better light."

ESPN isn't the shiny beacon of sports jouralistic intergrity they try to spin.

ksimpson14
02-06-2008, 11:53 PM
Speaking of Mike and Mike, you guys do know that the Mike Golic half has already admitted to taking steroids? They try to keep it a little hush hush but he did. I just think it's kind of funny when I listen to them talk about one of these issues

voodoochile
02-06-2008, 11:56 PM
Just curious, but how would one prove that the syringe had steroids in it when Roger was injected? He's already admitted to getting B12 and lidocaine shots from McNamee. So assume he gives DNA and it matches something on a syringe with HGH in it. He says "I don't know what he did with the B12 syringes he gave me afterwards, he may have tampered with them".

I know it's a weak story, I'm just wondering if it's enough to keep him out of jail.

For the record, I think he used the junk. I'm just not so sure that the evidence is going to be as strong as everyone else does. This is basically 1 guys word against another. It's not like Bonds, where there's a strong trail of documentary evidence. If there's Clemens blood and the blood contains HGH/roids, that's one thing. But a syringe from years ago with traces of both substances on it seems like it would be insufficient to jail a guy.

I agree, chain of custody alone probably precludes this from being a smoking gun legally, but why would McNamee save the stuff if it wasn't legitimate proof? That's the question I keep asking. What reason would he have for saving syringes that were used for B12 injections from 6 years ago before the steroid issue was even close to blowing up?

You'd think he would have used them for blackmail if they weren't legitimate and he would have threatened Roger to turn over his evidence, but even Roger hasn't said that much and he definitely would have if it had happened. It would have been on the phone conversation tape in some form for sure.

The only way it adds up to me is if Roger did steroids that McNamee injected and that McNamee kept the syringes and other stuff.

voodoochile
02-07-2008, 12:00 AM
McNamee is no less of a douche. He's acting like nothing happened and then crying to be his friend on the phone after ratting him out, and if this is true, he's saving the materials of the athletes he's juicing up, so if he gets caught for his illegal activity, he can rat and try to take the heat off of himself. There's no other reason to save it unless he's making it up. Yeah, the athletes have the blame and also did something illegal, but it just kind of annoys me, be a man and take your own punishment in jail and let everyone else worry about themselves



And honestly, I like guys like Clemens and the athletes better than a guy like McNamee. Yeah, they took the stuff, did something illegal, cheated, but they know the risk and will pay the price from what the stuff they're taking is going to do to them alone (see wrestlers). Does McNamee still go to jail even if he's right and named other names? If not, that's the rat aspect that annoys me.

Shouldn't Roger have to be a man about it and take his punishment if he lied to Congress, violated drug laws and acted unethically when he cheated to get an edge? Or is only McNamee being held to that standard?

CLR01
02-07-2008, 12:15 AM
Shouldn't Roger have to be a man about it and take his punishment if he lied to Congress, violated drug laws and acted unethically when he cheated to get an edge? Or is only McNamee being held to that standard?


No because Roger never should have been put in the unfortunate position of being exposed as a cheater. McNamee should have been Clemen's Greg Anderson.

DrCrawdad
02-07-2008, 01:02 AM
I still can't quite figure out why he would have syringes and gauze from years ago?

I don't remember which linked story said it but they addressed this and asked well why would one keep a stained blue dress? One must cover his (or her) assets.

Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, these guys were so brazen and full of themselves, they thought they were bullet-proof. I'm so happy that these players are being exposed.

mjmcend
02-07-2008, 03:04 AM
No because Roger never should have been put in the unfortunate position of being exposed as a cheater. McNamee should have been Clemen's Greg Anderson.

Apparently Bonds pays better.

Fenway
02-07-2008, 07:28 AM
I am curious on why the Daily News didn't sit on the story until their next print run. In any event they are playing it up big

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/07/gal_bp_02_07_2008.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/index.html

chisoxjtrain
02-07-2008, 08:22 AM
Just caught a bit of Mike and Mike this morning, and they are very skeptical about the syringes and gauze pads. I guess they are still inclined to believe Clemens.

Oblong
02-07-2008, 08:26 AM
There's no other reason to save it unless he's making it up. Yeah, the athletes have the blame and also did something illegal, but it just kind of annoys me, be a man and take your own punishment in jail and let everyone else worry about themselves

And honestly, I like guys like Clemens and the athletes better than a guy like McNamee. Yeah, they took the stuff, did something illegal, cheated, but they know the risk and will pay the price from what the stuff they're taking is going to do to them alone (see wrestlers). Does McNamee still go to jail even if he's right and named other names? If not, that's the rat aspect that annoys me.

That first sentence doesn't make any sense. The reason he saves it is because he figures they might go under oath one day. If they contradict each other then one of them is lying. This is his way of proving that he's not the one lying. You say "be a man and take your own punishment..." Does that apply to Clemens? He's certainly not being a man about anything. Or do you not think he took them? In your scenario where everybody keeps their mouth shut McNamee avoids being a "rat" but instead becomes the fall guy because he can't afford the big time lawyers that someone like Clemens would be able to afford. Do you think Roger would have supported him? No way. He'd have ratted him out the same way. It's every man for himself.

voodoochile
02-07-2008, 09:01 AM
I don't remember which linked story said it but they addressed this and asked well why would one keep a stained blue dress? One must cover his (or her) assets.

Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, these guys were so brazen and full of themselves, they thought they were bullet-proof. I'm so happy that these players are being exposed.

Without getting into politics, the blue dress issue is different. There's only one way for that to have been stained in the manner it was. While I am inclined to believe the needles were used to administer steroids to Clemens, there is the chance they were fabricated to appear that way and in fact were truly used as innocently as C30 would want us to believe. That's not possible with the dress, IMO.

However, I do agree that it seems very odd that McNamee would keep such worthless items 6-7 years ago if they weren't what he says they are.

Frontman
02-07-2008, 09:14 AM
Just caught a bit of Mike and Mike this morning, and they are very skeptical about the syringes and gauze pads. I guess they are still inclined to believe Clemens.

Well, I'm skeptical about why anyone would hold onto that stuff considering the dangers involved (anyone with actual medical knowledge wouldn't hold onto them, for fear of infection/spreading said infection) but nothing McNamee does here on out surprises me. The whole situation is weird as the day is long; and even though its strange that McNamee held onto them, I don't see a reason to doubt what he's saying at this point.

white sox bill
02-07-2008, 09:19 AM
Funny thing as us fans, we sit here and oversee this media orgasm. We are quick to judge. After all, these are the prima donna's of society now being struck down to "our" level. I train with 2 State Troopers and we were discussing Clemens the other day when one of them made a statement that hit home it ran something like this:

"If that were me, you or 99.9% of the people involved, we would be doing same thing as Clinton did when caught w/Monica---we would lie through our teeth."

Frontman
02-07-2008, 09:34 AM
Funny thing as us fans, we sit here and oversee this media orgasm. We are quick to judge. After all, these are the prima donna's of society now being struck down to "our" level. I train with 2 State Troopers and we were discussing Clemens the other day when one of them made a statement that hit home it ran something like this:

"If that were me, you or 99.9% of the people involved, we would be doing same thing as Clinton did when caught w/Monica---we would lie through our teeth."

Or your collegue could of easily have said, "If that was me, I wouldn't of touched that stuff period."

I for one have NEVER touched illegal drugs. EVER. I was raised with the mentality if something is illegal you don't do it. Majority of people go through their lives not ever doing illegal drugs; or obtaining drugs illegally.

Our sports 'heroes' on the other hand look at things entirely differently.

TomBradley72
02-07-2008, 09:38 AM
No because Roger never should have been put in the unfortunate position of being exposed as a cheater.

Roger put himself in this position by cheating.

Macnamee is a rat and a disloyal friend. But if Roger doesn't cheat (and then earn about $100M over the years that he allegedly cheated..while not going on road trips, joining teams in midseason, etc.) then he isn't "exposed".

voodoochile
02-07-2008, 09:41 AM
Roger put himself in this position by cheating.

Macnamee is a rat and a disloyal friend. But if Roger doesn't cheat (and then earn about $100M over the years that he allegedly cheated..while not going on road trips, joining teams in midseason, etc.) then he isn't "exposed".

Pssst... CLR is one of those anti-teal sarcasm people...

ode to veeck
02-07-2008, 10:09 AM
Hardin may be a Ben Matlock in Harris County, Texas but could be way overmatched on a bigger stage. The phone call stunt was bizzare to say the least.

I read that as a real sign of trouble for Roger when it happened

Fenway
02-07-2008, 11:10 AM
I read that as a real sign of trouble for Roger when it happened

Then last weeks his agents released this crap

http://www.rogerclemensreport.com/


Roger needs to go to his vault and hire the best New York lawfirm he can. It may keep him out of jail.

Jaffar
02-07-2008, 12:42 PM
Has there been any comments by Clemens or his representation since the news about the syringes came out?

salty99
02-07-2008, 12:43 PM
Has there been any comments by Clemens or his representation since the news about the syringes came out?

yes they basically say mcnamee is fabricating evidence

Oblong
02-07-2008, 12:46 PM
local sports update said Clemens is meeting with individual members of congress as part of his original offer, which I take to mean is not the result of McNamee's actions.

Fenway
02-07-2008, 01:00 PM
When Roger exploded like this and said he didn't give a crap about the Hall of Fame....I knew then he was guilty

nBW7O2rZPDo

Flight #24
02-07-2008, 02:31 PM
I agree, chain of custody alone probably precludes this from being a smoking gun legally, but why would McNamee save the stuff if it wasn't legitimate proof? That's the question I keep asking. What reason would he have for saving syringes that were used for B12 injections from 6 years ago before the steroid issue was even close to blowing up?

You'd think he would have used them for blackmail if they weren't legitimate and he would have threatened Roger to turn over his evidence, but even Roger hasn't said that much and he definitely would have if it had happened. It would have been on the phone conversation tape in some form for sure.

The only way it adds up to me is if Roger did steroids that McNamee injected and that McNamee kept the syringes and other stuff.

I wouldn't disagree with the motivational aaspect, I just think this could end up where he won't get jailed and he won't/can't get suspended because of the time and lack of evidence control. I also don't think he'll be as unsignable as Barroids because he's nowhere near as generally hated by the media as Bonds, so the public won't be so tainted against him.

But in terms of trying to avoid telling his wife & kids, his wife didn't notice the shrunken testes? What does that tell you about their relationship?:wink:

Mickster
02-07-2008, 03:07 PM
But in terms of trying to avoid telling his wife & kids, his wife didn't notice the shrunken testes? What does that tell you about their relationship?:wink:

http://www.jossip.com/gossip/George%20Costanza%20-%20-shrinkage%20med%20horz%20rec.jpg

Shrinkage!!!!!

Madvora
02-07-2008, 06:43 PM
There's some live feed on CNN.com right now with one of Clemens lawyers saying that Macnamee's accusation is just a publicity stunt.

gogosox16
02-07-2008, 06:48 PM
There's some live feed on CNN.com right now with one of Clemens lawyers saying that Macnamee's accusation is just a publicity stunt.
Yeah, he's doing it so he think he popular for once in his entire life.

ws05champs
02-07-2008, 07:32 PM
Back in the 2000 World Series, Mike Piazza broke his bat on a pitch from Clemens. I remember Clemens picking up part of the bat and looking like he was going to break the rest of it over Piazza's head (as if he thought Piazza was aiming his broken bat at Clemens). I thought it was well beyond just an over reaction on the part of Clemmens. Could that have been 'roid rage?

Soxfanspcu11
02-07-2008, 07:44 PM
Back in the 2000 World Series, Mike Piazza broke his bat on a pitch from Clemens. I remember Clemens picking up part of the bat and looking like he was going to break the rest of it over Piazza's head (as if he thought Piazza was aiming his broken bat at Clemens). I thought it was well beyond just an over reaction on the part of Clemmens. Could that have been 'roid rage?


Roid Rage or not, that was unreal! What kind of piece of **** does something like that??? I mean, geez, his bat broke and just happened to come near you. So your reaction to that is to pick it up and throw it at the guy?!?!?

I don't know what pissed me off more, the fact that Roger did that or the way that journalists tried to defend Roger by saying how "Passionate" he was. If Roger murdered somebody in cold blood, you would still have people defending him. I just don't get it.:angry:

rocky biddle
02-07-2008, 09:26 PM
Back in the 2000 World Series, Mike Piazza broke his bat on a pitch from Clemens. I remember Clemens picking up part of the bat and looking like he was going to break the rest of it over Piazza's head (as if he thought Piazza was aiming his broken bat at Clemens). I thought it was well beyond just an over reaction on the part of Clemmens. Could that have been 'roid rage?

I didn't think it was roid rage. I figured the dye from his super cheesy frosted tips was seeping into his brain and screwing up his thought process.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n185/rockybiddle/clemenscheesytips.jpg

Frontman
02-08-2008, 12:29 AM
I'm not sure who said it on radio today, but whoever it was (I think it was on Tirico's show) said this is the ultimate game of chicken that McNamee and Clemens are playing. One of them is going to get hammered by Congress for lying under oath if both stay on the same course as they are.

And with physical evidence, it looks like Clemens will be the one who gets hammered.

jabrch
02-08-2008, 10:00 AM
There's some live feed on CNN.com right now with one of Clemens lawyers saying that Macnamee's accusation is just a publicity stunt.


If so, McNamee ends up in jail for perjury. I doubt it...

voodoochile
02-08-2008, 10:02 AM
If so, McNamee ends up in jail for perjury. I doubt it...

Not to mention obstruction. You don't send manufactured evidence to Congress. It's a REALLY bad idea...

Fenway
02-08-2008, 10:06 AM
Not to mention obstruction. You don't send manufactured evidence to Congress. It's a REALLY bad idea...

McNamee's lawyers are not that stupid.