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View Full Version : Why Wouldn't We Look at Josh Fogg?


BRDSR
02-04-2008, 05:27 PM
This is a name I haven't heard mentioned around here, but seems like it would be an option worth exploring. He could probably be signed to a three-year deal worth 8-10 million.

He's got a career record of 60-60, and that's on some pretty bad Pirates teams. His career ERA and WHIP are fairly high, but he's experienced. And, let's not forget the 2.06 ERA he posted with the Sox in 2001 (in 13.1 innings of relief).

This would mean that Danks or Floyd starts the season in the bullpen and is only called to duty if someone goes down. I think the Sox can be competitive if they give themselves an option or two in the rotation, but right now I just don't think the current personnel is the right combination of talented and consistent. Options are good, even if they're not all great options.

PalehosePlanet
02-04-2008, 05:32 PM
I agree that we need more SP depth, but I really don't think Fogg could make our team --- he's not that good. If he took a minor league deal where he pitched in AAA just in case of injury, then I wouldn't mind.

SoxNation05
02-04-2008, 05:33 PM
This is a name I haven't heard mentioned around here, but seems like it would be an option worth exploring. He could probably be signed to a three-year deal worth 8-10 million.

He's got a career record of 60-60, and that's on some pretty bad Pirates teams. His career ERA and WHIP are fairly high, but he's experienced. And, let's not forget the 2.06 ERA he posted with the Sox in 2001 (in 13.1 innings of relief).

This would mean that Danks or Floyd starts the season in the bullpen and is only called to duty if someone goes down. I think the Sox can be competitive if they give themselves an option or two in the rotation, but right now I just don't think the current personnel is the right combination of talented and consistent. Options are good, even if they're not all great options.
:puking::talktothehand::kukoo::booty:

cards press box
02-04-2008, 05:36 PM
I've always thought that Fogg was best suited to be a reliever. Picking him up would give the Sox some options: if everything goes fine with Danks and Floyd, Fogg joins an already deep bullpen. If Danks and/or Floyd struggles and Broadway does not step into the rotation, Fogg could start. In other words, Fogg could be the type of pitcher baseball announcers used to call a "swing man" (i.e., start or relieve). I can't see the Sox, however, giving him more than a minor league contract.

SoxNation05
02-04-2008, 05:38 PM
I've always thought that Fogg was best suited to be a reliever. Picking him up would give the Sox some options: if everything goes fine with Danks and Floyd, Fogg joins an already deep bullpen. If Danks and/or Floyd struggles and Broadway does not step into the rotation, Fogg could start. In other words, Fogg could be the type of pitcher baseball announcers used to call a "swing man" (i.e., start or relieve).
I like your idea of making Fogg a Julian Taverez. I am also not sure on what the money or the commitment to Fogg would be. Also I would think Fogg would want to join a team in which he would be in the starting rotation in.

munchman33
02-04-2008, 06:32 PM
Kenny would never sign Josh Fogg as it would be admitting he was wrong about he Todd Richie trade.

santo=dorf
02-04-2008, 06:40 PM
Kenny would never sign Josh Fogg as it would be admitting he was wrong about he Todd Ritchie trade.
That doesn't make any sense. It was 6 years ago so he would've been a free agent anyways. KW already acknowledged it was a poor trade.

Want a reason to sign him?

2007 away for Fogg: 5-5, 4.15 ERA, 1.43 WHIP

Now I'm not saying we should sign him, but that would be an upgrade over three of our starters.

tstrike2000
02-04-2008, 06:44 PM
Want a reason to sign him?

2007 away for Fogg: 5-5, 4.15 ERA, 1.43 WHIP

Now I'm not saying we should sign him, but that would be an upgrade over three of our starters.

Unfortunately, you're probably right.

fquaye149
02-04-2008, 07:32 PM
That doesn't make any sense. It was 6 years ago so he would've been a free agent anyways. KW already acknowledged it was a poor trade.

Want a reason to sign him?

2007 away for Fogg: 5-5, 4.15 ERA, 1.43 WHIP

Now I'm not saying we should sign him, but that would be an upgrade over three of our starters.

NL.

He's a better bet than Contreras, Danks, and Floyd but his ceiling is a lot lower too....and he's not so much of an improvement over their bare bones that it's worth looking at.

As far as "Kenny admitting he was wrong"....lol.

Didn't Kenny trade back for Gio? :rolleyes:

DrCrawdad
02-04-2008, 07:39 PM
Kenny would never sign Josh Fogg as it would be admitting he was wrong about he Todd Richie trade.

Todd Ritchie was awful. Not that Fogg or Kip Wells amounted to much, it still was a bad trade. IIRC KW has admitted as much already.

munchman33
02-04-2008, 08:25 PM
That doesn't make any sense. It was 6 years ago so he would've been a free agent anyways. KW already acknowledged it was a poor trade.

Want a reason to sign him?

2007 away for Fogg: 5-5, 4.15 ERA, 1.43 WHIP

Now I'm not saying we should sign him, but that would be an upgrade over three of our starters.

I was trying to be funny. :rolleyes:

Lukin13
02-04-2008, 08:59 PM
Why bring in anyone that isn't a sure thing and give them a sure thing spot in the rotation?

If KW signs Fogg he is guranteed a spot in the rotation.

I like the idea that although Danks and Floyd are the heavy favorites to start the season off at 4 and 5, that if Masset, Haeger, Broadway and maybe even a few others have great springs that anyone of them could end up in the rotation.

Fine, bring in Fogg, Colon, Benson or any of the other names but then have the stones to go with the hot hand, or at least the hand you have the most confidence in, regardless of who it is. Please don't sign Fogg and give him until July just because he makes 10 times the $.

sullythered
02-04-2008, 09:16 PM
I was trying to be funny. :rolleyes:

The problem is that you are so freakin relentless with the anti-Kenny stuff, it's hard to tell.

munchman33
02-05-2008, 07:41 AM
The problem is that you are so freakin relentless with the anti-Kenny stuff, it's hard to tell.

No, it only seems that way because the bulk of the people here refuse to be the least bit critical.

I haven't been critical of all his moves. I like the Quentin move. At first, I liked the Garland move (until it became clear we weren't replacing him). I was for both bullpen signings.

I've mostly been critical of Kenny's inactivity. He waited, waited, waited, and then made a move because there was nothing left that fit. And he paid a cost he never should have. It isn't anyone's fault but his own, and he's done a lot of damage to the organization because of it. I'm not going to let him off the hook because we won a World Series in '05. It isn't a get out of jail free card.

johnr1note
02-05-2008, 09:18 AM
No, it only seems that way because the bulk of the people here refuse to be the least bit critical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchman33
I haven't been critical of all his moves. I like the Quentin move. At first, I liked the Garland move (until it became clear we weren't replacing him). I was for both bullpen signings.

I've mostly been critical of Kenny's inactivity. He waited, waited, waited, and then made a move because there was nothing left that fit. And he paid a cost he never should have. It isn't anyone's fault but his own, and he's done a lot of damage to the organization because of it. I'm not going to let him off the hook because we won a World Series in '05. It isn't a get out of jail free card.


While I think your comment that most WSIers don't believe in criticizing Kenny isn't fair, I think your assessment of the off season is pretty good. Its hard to tell what Kenny's plan really was. Apparently, he was banking on Tori Hunter, and when that didn't happen a lot of Sox fans started clamoring for action. I am not sure if Nick Swisher was plan "B" or plan "C." I like the Swisher acquisition -- he's a top flight player, he's under our control for several years, and he's not too expensive. I disagree with your assessment that we paid too much for him. We gave up a lot, but our track record on giving up our purportedly front line prospects in return for a player that could contribute now has been pretty good. There are few, if any, prospects that have come through the system under KW's watch that have amounted to anything, the CF for Arizona included.

I'm not willing to give Kenny a "pass" either -- but I also know there's about 2 months until opening day. Deals and player moves can still happen. I agree with you that we're at least a starting pitcher short, and we need a legit lead off hitter. Improving CF defense would be great, too, and the original poster's question iabout Josh Fogg -- well, why pay 3 million or more for a pitcher with the same upside as Floyd or Danks? But I hope Kenny has a few cards up his sleeve yet -- whether its a decision to move Crede in exchange for the pitching help we need, or a deal for another player who could play second or center and lead off, or maybe there's an even bigger surprise, I will wait and see.

fquaye149
02-05-2008, 09:48 AM
No, it only seems that way because the bulk of the people here refuse to be the least bit critical.

i'm plenty critical of Kenny when it's appropriate (handling of prospects/drafts/farm systems, saying stupid **** like "the Tigers are chasing us", that crap he pulled with Frank)

However it's not appropriate to be critical of him for making what are most likely good moves, or good non-moves (like NOT signing Rowand to an asinine 6 year deal)

FedEx227
02-05-2008, 10:47 AM
i'm plenty critical of Kenny when it's appropriate (handling of prospects/drafts/farm systems, saying stupid **** like "the Tigers are chasing us", that crap he pulled with Frank)

However it's not appropriate to be critical of him for making what are most likely good moves, or good non-moves (like NOT signing Rowand to an asinine 6 year deal)

I'm absolutely the same way, Kenny has made some moronic moves in his tenure here, no doubt about it. But being critical of everything without seeing the grand scope of things is ridiculous.

Like you said, a good non-move was not signing Rowand to a 6-year deal, he doesn't deserve a 6-year deal and no matter what he would do for this team he is no worth 6-years.

The Swisher and Quentin moves were good, not sure just yet about the OC/Garland deal I'll hold off judgment on that.

oeo
02-05-2008, 11:08 AM
Kenny would never sign Josh Fogg as it would be admitting he was wrong about he Todd Richie trade.

First of all, it should never happen because Josh Fogg sucks.

Secondly, when has KW been afraid to admit when he's wrong? :?:

fquaye149
02-05-2008, 11:17 AM
I'm absolutely the same way, Kenny has made some moronic moves in his tenure here, no doubt about it. But being critical of everything without seeing the grand scope of things is ridiculous.

Like you said, a good non-move was not signing Rowand to a 6-year deal, he doesn't deserve a 6-year deal and no matter what he would do for this team he is no worth 6-years.

The Swisher and Quentin moves were good, not sure just yet about the OC/Garland deal I'll hold off judgment on that.

Of course there are people out here who have no sense of GM-ship who will be like "if it helps the team this year, you do whatever it takes to get Rowand, even if in 3 years when he's hurt and ineffective you're still stuck with a big, unmoveable contract for 3 more years" or "If Torii's your guy, you go out and pay him more for more years than anyone else on your team, effectively increasing your payroll by 15% for what amounts to the 5th or 6th best player on your team. Oh and you go and get him at that price for 5 or 6 years even though he's already in his 30's and plays a high-wear-and-tear position"

That's what a bunch of people will say.

oeo
02-05-2008, 11:19 AM
Of course there are people out here who have no sense of GM-ship who will be like "if it helps the team this year, you do whatever it takes to get Rowand, even if in 3 years when he's hurt and ineffective you're still stuck with a big, unmoveable contract for 3 more years" or "If Torii's your guy, you go out and pay him more for more years than anyone else on your team, effectively increasing your payroll by 15% for what amounts to the 5th or 6th best player on your team. Oh and you go and get him at that price for 5 or 6 years even though he's already in his 30's and plays a high-wear-and-tear position"

That's what a bunch of people will say.

And they're the same people that would be whining in a few years about how stupid their contracts are (see: Contreras, Jose).

munchman33
02-05-2008, 07:09 PM
While I think your comment that most WSIers don't believe in criticizing Kenny isn't fair, I think your assessment of the off season is pretty good. Its hard to tell what Kenny's plan really was. Apparently, he was banking on Tori Hunter, and when that didn't happen a lot of Sox fans started clamoring for action. I am not sure if Nick Swisher was plan "B" or plan "C." I like the Swisher acquisition -- he's a top flight player, he's under our control for several years, and he's not too expensive. I disagree with your assessment that we paid too much for him. We gave up a lot, but our track record on giving up our purportedly front line prospects in return for a player that could contribute now has been pretty good. There are few, if any, prospects that have come through the system under KW's watch that have amounted to anything, the CF for Arizona included.

I'm not willing to give Kenny a "pass" either -- but I also know there's about 2 months until opening day. Deals and player moves can still happen. I agree with you that we're at least a starting pitcher short, and we need a legit lead off hitter. Improving CF defense would be great, too, and the original poster's question iabout Josh Fogg -- well, why pay 3 million or more for a pitcher with the same upside as Floyd or Danks? But I hope Kenny has a few cards up his sleeve yet -- whether its a decision to move Crede in exchange for the pitching help we need, or a deal for another player who could play second or center and lead off, or maybe there's an even bigger surprise, I will wait and see.

Well, if we somehow come up with two more good starters or one great starter, my opinion of the offseason will change completely.

doublem23
02-05-2008, 07:20 PM
Kenny would never sign Josh Fogg as it would be admitting he was wrong about he Todd Richie trade.

Whatever, this is just as ridiculous as your constant claims that DLS should start posing for his plaque in Cooperstown. That trade happened in 2003, when Josh Fogg was a prospect. I would hope no GM is so bull-headed that he wouldn't sign a player he traded away in the beginning of his career when he has blossomed into a productive MLB player.

As already stated, KW's not going to sign him because Josh Fogg would be far more expensive than an automatic BP machine, but not any more effective.

Just admit that you hate Kenny Williams and wish the Sox didn't win the World Series in 2005, because at least then your ridiculous opinions wouldn't look so asinine.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/mlb/2006/0404/photo/g_williams_275.jpg

munchman33
02-05-2008, 07:22 PM
Whatever, this is just as ridiculous as your constant claims that DLS should start posing for his plaque in Cooperstown. That trade happened in 2003, when Josh Fogg was a prospect. I would hope no GM is so bull-headed that he wouldn't sign a player he traded away in the beginning of his career when he has blossomed into a productive MLB player.

As already stated, KW's not going to sign him because Josh Fogg would be far more expensive than an automatic BP machine, but not any more effective.

Just admit that you hate Kenny Williams and wish the Sox didn't win the World Series in 2005, because at least then your ridiculous opinions wouldn't be completely baseless.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/mlb/2006/0404/photo/g_williams_275.jpg

I already stated earlier that that particular comment was meant as a joke.

SoxNation05
02-05-2008, 07:23 PM
Whatever, this is just as ridiculous as your constant claims that DLS should start posing for his plaque in Cooperstown. That trade happened in 2003, when Josh Fogg was a prospect. I would hope no GM is so bull-headed that he wouldn't sign a player he traded away in the beginning of his career when he has blossomed into a productive MLB player.

As already stated, KW's not going to sign him because Josh Fogg would be far more expensive than an automatic BP machine, but not any more effective.

Just admit that you hate Kenny Williams and wish the Sox didn't win the World Series in 2005, because at least then your ridiculous opinions wouldn't look so asinine.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/mlb/2006/0404/photo/g_williams_275.jpg
:popcorn:

Jjav829
02-05-2008, 07:35 PM
Fogg is the dragon slayer! We have to sign him to slay the dragons in the AL Central. :?:

MDF3530
02-05-2008, 07:36 PM
Here's why the Sox won't look at Josh Fogg: They've been down that road before. He's not that good.

sullythered
02-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Oh, and Josh Fogg sucks worse than the alternatives already on our roster...