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View Full Version : Where do we bat Swish?


Jerksticks
02-03-2008, 11:24 AM
Swish's OBP is awesome, so where do we utilize it? I think the 3hole best suits him actually.

Owens
Cabrera
Swish
Thome
Dye
Konerko
Fields
AJ
Richar

If Richar becomes the OnBAse machine that I hope he becomes, then ideally I would like to see:

Richar
Cabrera
Swish
Thome
Dye
Konerko
Fields
AJ
Quentin

This lineup is sick and filled with all 20HR potential (even AJ) and good speed/OBP, and getting younger.

Swish's combination of OBP and power means he should bat before the big poppers but after the table setters. This equals 3hole, not 6th or 7th like some of you want. That's how you get his 2006 numbers in 2008 (prolly better ones too).

JSticks

fquaye149
02-03-2008, 11:35 AM
I like him at leadoff

DickAllen72
02-03-2008, 12:08 PM
It doesn't matter where we like him. Ozzie makes the ****in' lineups and he already said Swisher will bat either 2nd, 5th or 6th.

Me personally, depending on who is on the opening day roster, I like him either 3rd, 2nd, or even leadoff.

Foulke You
02-03-2008, 12:23 PM
I'd bat Swisher 5th after Konerko and before Dye.

2. Cabrera
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Swisher
6. Dye

This way, you'll have good righty/lefty balance in your lineup and Swisher's power won't be wasted in the 2 hole.

fquaye149
02-03-2008, 12:24 PM
It doesn't matter where we like him. Ozzie makes the ****in' lineups and he already said Swisher will bat either 2nd, 5th or 6th.

Me personally, depending on who is on the opening day roster, I like him either 3rd, 2nd, or even leadoff.

No point in discussing any potential roster moves or game decisions, since we have no effect on them

SoxNation05
02-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Also it is hard to say because we don't know who is going to be in left. If it is Quentin he will bat mid-late in the order but if it is Owens then he will bat leadoff. There is no doubt in my mind as long as Thome is in the lineup then we he will be batting 3rd. I like Swish 5th but we might see him 1st or 2nd.

Owens Cabrera
Cabrera Swisher
Thome Thome
Konerko PK
Swisher Dye
Dye AJ
Pierzynski Fields
Fields Quentin
Richar Richar

gregory18n
02-03-2008, 12:42 PM
I hope we can pull in a true lead-off & bat him 3rd. If not, I'de still bat him 3rd with Owens leading off. If Quentin is healthy and playing LF, Nick should lead-off, though I really prefer him batting third.

gna2112
02-03-2008, 12:56 PM
Like most of you have said earlier it all depends who wins the starting CF job this spring. This is my addition to this topic:
With Owens in CF
1. Owens-CF
2. Cabrera-SS
3. Swisher-LF
4. Thome-DH
5. Konerko-1B
6. Dye-RF
7. Fields-3B
8. AJ-C
9. Richar-2B
With Quentin in LF/Swisher in CF
1. Cabrera-SS
2. Swisher-CF
3. Thome-DH
4. Konerko-1B
5. Dye-RF
6 Fields-3B
7. AJ-C
8. Quentin-LF
9. Richar-2B
Either way I believe both are quality line-ups, however I would prefer to see the 1st one myself. Would like to see Owens win the CF job and produce offensively and defensively. Not sold on swisher in CF, just because of his range and arm, but I am a big fan what he can do offensively. Either way it's going to be a 2008 World series Championship this year...GO SOX!!!!

Sockinchisox
02-03-2008, 12:59 PM
2 or 5.

peeonwrigley
02-03-2008, 01:01 PM
How quick is Swisher on the bases? The 2-spot seems like a natural fit to me due to his OBP, but I'd love to break up the terribly slow mass of PK, Thome, Dye, AJ, Crede (although he's gonna be gone).

Sockinchisox
02-03-2008, 01:04 PM
How quick is Swisher on the bases? The 2-spot seems like a natural fit to me due to his OBP, but I'd love to break up the terribly slow mass of PK, Thome, Dye, AJ, Crede (although he's gonna be gone).

He has a little below average speed, but I've seen him go 1st to 3rd on singles a good amount of times.

sox1970
02-03-2008, 01:09 PM
vs. Right
1. Owens- CF
2. Cabrera- SS
3. Thome-DH
4. Konerko-1B
5. Dye- RF
6. Swisher- LF
7. Fields- 3B
8. Pierzynski- C
9. Richar- 2B

Quentin will play a lot still. Off day here and there for Swisher and Dye.

vs. Left
1. Owens- CF
2. Cabrera- SS
3. Swisher- LF
4. Konerko- 1B
5. Dye-DH
6. Fields- 3B
7. Quentin- RF
8. Pierzynski/Hall- C
9. Richar-2B

Yes, no Thome vs. lefties. He's brutal against lefties. Have him come off the bench.

goon
02-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Yes, no Thome vs. lefties. He's brutal against lefties. Have him come off the bench.

Not only that, but maybe sitting him more often will keep him healthy. Against lefties, you could sit Thome, put Dye at DH (who also had some trouble staying healthy last season) put Quentin in RF. Or put Konerko at DH, Dye in RF, Swisher at 1B, Quentin in LF. I think Owens plays CF this season.

#1swisher
02-03-2008, 01:32 PM
#1

btrain929
02-03-2008, 02:02 PM
Not only that, but maybe sitting him more often will keep him healthy. Against lefties, you could sit Thome, put Dye at DH (who also had some trouble staying healthy last season) put Quentin in RF. Or put Konerko at DH, Dye in RF, Swisher at 1B, Quentin in LF. I think Owens plays CF this season.

You don't pay Thome the money he's earning to sit him against lefties. Realistically, he's gonna be in the lineup as much as possible, no matter who's pitching.

gogosox16
02-03-2008, 02:07 PM
I like him at leadoff
If your talking about Swisher at leadoff, I like it also with his high OBP. But if in the spring training, Richar showed he can hit consistently and get on base I wouldn't mind him leading off, unless if Owens was in the lineup

Lukin13
02-03-2008, 02:11 PM
1 or 3

Don't bat this kid second.

We now have a great typical 2 spot hitter in Cabrera, please let him do what he does best.

goon
02-03-2008, 02:14 PM
You don't pay Thome the money he's earning to sit him against lefties. Realistically, he's gonna be in the lineup as much as possible, no matter who's pitching.

That's irrelevant, IMO. If he's going to be in the lineup, it's going to be because Ozzie thinks he's going to help the team score runs and win. I think with the options the Sox have on their roster now, with Jim missing time last season with his back problems and he obviously struggles against LH pitching (.196 BA, .314 OBP vs .315 BA, .455 OBP vs. RH pitching), it just makes sense to give him some days off against lefties.

I understand what you're saying though.

Jerksticks
02-03-2008, 02:18 PM
I don't want him batting leadoff. This wastes his power; utilizes the high OBP, but wastes power. We don't want to Soriano him like the cubs are doing: 30 homers 55 rbis- no thanks (or whatever the #s were). I like 3 hole.

Now if you want to argue Swisher at leadoff because our lineup is SO stacked and Fields, AJ, Richar, and Quentin are gonna be on base all the time, then that's fine. I can live with that.

JSticks.

btrain929
02-03-2008, 02:22 PM
That's irrelevant, IMO. If he's going to be in the lineup, it's going to be because Ozzie thinks he's going to help the team score runs and win. I think with the options the Sox have on their roster now, with Jim missing time last season with his back problems and he obviously struggles against LH pitching (.196 BA, .314 OBP vs .315 BA, .455 OBP vs. RH pitching), it just makes sense to give him some days off against lefties.

I understand what you're saying though.

Will he get the occasional day off when there's a tough lefty on the mound? Sure.

Will he be on the bench every time the White Sox face a lefty SP? No. That's the point I was trying to make.

DickAllen72
02-03-2008, 02:27 PM
No point in discussing any potential roster moves or game decisions, since we have no effect on them
It's not the fact that we don't have any effect on moves or decisions that matter, it's the fact that Ozzie has already indicated that Swisher is going to bat either 2,5 or 6.

Of course Ozzie can change his mind, but the most frustrating thing about Ozzie during his managerial career so far has been his lineups. I was just using his infamous quote, "I make the ****in' lineups", as a preface to my comments about where I would like to bat Swisher. Remember, the title of the thread is "Where do we bat Swish?", not "Where would you like to see Swisher bat?"

BTW, out of all of Ozzie's stated options, if indeed Cabrera is batting second, then I would hope he would bat Swisher fifth between Konerko and Dye to give the middle of the lineup more L-R balance.

fquaye149
02-03-2008, 03:02 PM
It's not the fact that we don't have any effect on moves or decisions that matter, it's the fact that Ozzie has already indicated that Swisher is going to bat either 2,5 or 6.

Of course Ozzie can change his mind, but the most frustrating thing about Ozzie during his managerial career so far has been his lineups. I was just using his infamous quote, "I make the ****in' lineups", as a preface to my comments about where I would like to bat Swisher. Remember, the title of the thread is "Where do we bat Swish?", not "Where would you like to see Swisher bat?"

BTW, out of all of Ozzie's stated options, if indeed Cabrera is batting second, then I would hope he would bat Swisher fifth between Konerko and Dye to give the middle of the lineup more L-R balance.

Between 2, 5, and 6 I'd like to see Swisher batting 5th, then. Who knows?

Jjav829
02-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Put me down for leadoff. I'm a fan of getting your best players as many at-bats as possible. Is Swisher the ideal leadoff hitter? Not really. I'd love someone who got on-base a lot and had great speed. But we don't have a Hanley Ramirez or Ichiro. If Owens can do that, great, but I'd rather not just throw a guy into the spot because he's fast.

Swisher
Cabrera
Thome (vs. RHP, Dye or Konerko moving up vs. LHP)
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Fields
Quentin
Richar

That looks good to me.

JB98
02-03-2008, 03:05 PM
I don't want him batting leadoff. This wastes his power; utilizes the high OBP, but wastes power. We don't want to Soriano him like the cubs are doing: 30 homers 55 rbis- no thanks (or whatever the #s were). I like 3 hole.

Now if you want to argue Swisher at leadoff because our lineup is SO stacked and Fields, AJ, Richar, and Quentin are gonna be on base all the time, then that's fine. I can live with that.

JSticks.

I'd start out with Swisher hitting leadoff. I'm not worrying about wasting his power because we already have a ton of power three through seven with Thome, PK, Dye, AJ and Crede/Fields.

The one thing Swisher does well that nobody else on the club does is see a ton of pitches and get on base at a clip around .375. That's why I'd give him a whirl batting leadoff, even though he isn't the prototype for the spot.

goon
02-03-2008, 03:51 PM
Is Swisher the ideal leadoff hitter? Not really. I'd love someone who got on-base a lot and had great speed. But we don't have a Hanley Ramirez or Ichiro. If Owens can do that, great, but I'd rather not just throw a guy into the spot because he's fast.


Agreed. I think leadoff will be partly decided in Spring Training. If Owens proves he get on base, bunt, etc. he'll probably be in the leadoff spot. If not, he'll be batting ninth. I wonder if Ozzie and Williams are thinking about putting OC in the leadoff, as well.

I'd like to see Swisher near the top of the order.

Frater Perdurabo
02-03-2008, 04:46 PM
I'd have him lead off because he takes pitches and takes walks. And with 30-HR power, he'll give the Sox a fair number of first inning 1-0 leads. Also, although he's not much of a stolen base guy, he ought to reach third on a single by Cabrera. Then, if Thome is walked, even a Paulie GIDP scores Swisher!

As much as I like a base-stealing threat leading off, I like even more the idea of having as many guys on base as possible for Thome, Paulie, Dye, and Fields/Crede.

Let Owens and Quentin share the 9-hole.

SoxNation05
02-03-2008, 06:59 PM
I'd have him lead off because he takes pitches and takes walks. And with 30-HR power, he'll give the Sox a fair number of first inning 1-0 leads. Also, although he's not much of a stolen base guy, he ought to reach third on a single by Cabrera. Then, if Thome is walked, even a Paulie GIDP scores Swisher!

As much as I like a base-stealing threat leading off, I like even more the idea of having as many guys on base as possible for Thome, Paulie, Dye, and Fields/Crede.

Let Owens and Quentin share the 9-hole.
I think that Richar will be batting ninth.

Tragg
02-03-2008, 09:29 PM
Agreed. I think leadoff will be partly decided in Spring Training. If Owens proves he get on base, bunt, etc. he'll probably be in the leadoff spot. If not, he'll be batting ninth. I wonder if Ozzie and Williams are thinking about putting OC in the leadoff, as well.

Either Owens is good enough to leadoff, or he's out of the lineup. Or put another way, either he deliver a .350 OBP or he's out of the lineup. A slap hitter like him with zero ability to drive the ball, .350OBP is a minimum - and a .350 OBP plus his speed, will lead off for this team.

If Owens is slapping his way to .330 OBP, then he's a liability, even in the 9 hole.
I expect Quentin to make the starting lineup.

I'd give Richar a good look at leadoff in the spring. His instincts are for plate patience. He can get around the bases.

goon
02-03-2008, 11:41 PM
Either Owens is good enough to leadoff, or he's out of the lineup. Or put another way, either he deliver a .350 OBP or he's out of the lineup. A slap hitter like him with zero ability to drive the ball, .350OBP is a minimum - and a .350 OBP plus his speed, will lead off for this team.

If Owens is slapping his way to .330 OBP, then he's a liability, even in the 9 hole.
I expect Quentin to make the starting lineup.

I'd give Richar a good look at leadoff in the spring. His instincts are for plate patience. He can get around the bases.

I suppose. If Quentin can play CF, Owens will probably be on the bench, but of the outfielders on the 25 man roster, Owens is probably best suited for CF. That's why I think he'll be in CF, batting leadoff or ninth.

soxwon
02-04-2008, 12:15 AM
3rd-4th-5th

LITTLE NELL
02-04-2008, 07:01 AM
If Owens is our leadoff guy I bat Swish 5th with Cabrerra batting 2nd. If Owens is not our leadoff guy I go with Cabrerra 1st and Swisher 2nd.

MISoxfan
02-04-2008, 08:24 AM
I'd start out with Swisher hitting leadoff. I'm not worrying about wasting his power because we already have a ton of power three through seven with Thome, PK, Dye, AJ and Crede/Fields.

The one thing Swisher does well that nobody else on the club does is see a ton of pitches and get on base at a clip around .375. That's why I'd give him a whirl batting leadoff, even though he isn't the prototype for the spot.

Thome does that year in and out. Konerko and even Dye are also capable.

Unless you meant out of potential leadoff men.

Tragg
02-04-2008, 09:57 AM
I suppose. If Quentin can play CF, Owens will probably be on the bench, but of the outfielders on the 25 man roster, Owens is probably best suited for CF. That's why I think he'll be in CF, batting leadoff or ninth.
Owens isn't a particularly good CF himself.

Put Swisher in CF for 7 innings and then let Anderson play the last 2, with Quinten moving over to RF to spell Dye. That would be defensively stout to protect a lead.

At this point I'd put Swisher at leadoff too. Dye in the 3 hole.

russ99
02-04-2008, 10:50 AM
I'd bat Swisher 5th after Konerko and before Dye.

2. Cabrera
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Swisher
6. Dye

This way, you'll have good righty/lefty balance in your lineup and Swisher's power won't be wasted in the 2 hole.

He's a prototypical #3 hitter. But that would mean moving Thome down the order which I'm for, but I doubt Ozzie would do.

1. Owens / Ozuna (vs. tough lefties)
2. Cabrera (check his leadoff numbers - not so good)
3. Swisher
4. Konerko
5. Thome
6. Dye
7. A.J. / Crede
8. Fields / A.J.
9. Richar / Uribe

jabrch
02-04-2008, 11:14 AM
Anywhere in the top 5 is fine with me. It shouldn't make too much a difference.

Foulke You
02-04-2008, 01:29 PM
I'd start out with Swisher hitting leadoff. I'm not worrying about wasting his power because we already have a ton of power three through seven with Thome, PK, Dye, AJ and Crede/Fields.

The one thing Swisher does well that nobody else on the club does is see a ton of pitches and get on base at a clip around .375. That's why I'd give him a whirl batting leadoff, even though he isn't the prototype for the spot.
Swisher just has too much power for a leadoff man for my taste. We do have a lot of other power hitters in the lineup but that shouldn't dismiss Swisher's power capabilities. He was a 22-30HR guy playing half his games in Oakland's pitcher friendly park. It is not unreasonable to think he could jack 30-35HR playing half his games at the Cell. 30-35HRs is a waste at the leadoff spot, just ask the Cubs. Swisher would likely be in the 75RBI-95RBI range batting 5th but would only be 50RBI-65RBI in the leadoff spot. We really struggle to score runs last year and I'd love for Swisher to have chances to clear the bases and not just set the table. My ideal situation would be for Richar to step up to the leadoff role. This way, we could keep Quentin in the lineup more than Owens.

Gammons Peter
02-04-2008, 02:18 PM
I would hit him 3 and move Thome to 4

EndemicSox
02-04-2008, 02:27 PM
#3, best hitter on the team at this point...

JB98
02-04-2008, 03:53 PM
Thome does that year in and out. Konerko and even Dye are also capable.

Unless you meant out of potential leadoff men.

Yes, I meant out of potential leadoff men.

I'm comparing Swisher to Owens, Richar and Cabrera, who others have managed as potential leadoff men.

JB98
02-04-2008, 04:00 PM
Swisher just has too much power for a leadoff man for my taste. We do have a lot of other power hitters in the lineup but that shouldn't dismiss Swisher's power capabilities. He was a 22-30HR guy playing half his games in Oakland's pitcher friendly park. It is not unreasonable to think he could jack 30-35HR playing half his games at the Cell. 30-35HRs is a waste at the leadoff spot, just ask the Cubs. Swisher would likely be in the 75RBI-95RBI range batting 5th but would only be 50RBI-65RBI in the leadoff spot. We really struggle to score runs last year and I'd love for Swisher to have chances to clear the bases and not just set the table. My ideal situation would be for Richar to step up to the leadoff role. This way, we could keep Quentin in the lineup more than Owens.

My point is, though, that Dye will give us those 75-95 RBIs out of the fifth spot. Swisher might only give us 50-65 RBIs in the leadoff spot, but he will also give us 100 runs scored.

I'm not sure Owens or Richar will give us 50-65 RBIs, plus 100 runs scored, out of the leadoff spot.

Swisher, to me, is capable of being either a table-setter or an RBI man. Since we have several other proven RBI men (Thome, Paulie, JD, to a lesser extent AJ and Crede) and very few proven table-setters, why not put Swisher in the table-setter role? That's what the team needs.

And I don't see how you can compare Swisher to Soriano. Totally different styles of hitters. Compare the number of pitches seen and the number of walks taken, and there is no comparison.

Tragg
02-04-2008, 06:17 PM
Nothing wrong with some pop out of the leadoff spot. That person does get the most at bats. Richar has some pop, actually. If he can get on base 35% of the time, he'd be a really nice leadoff hitter. He didn't do it last time - but he was hitting in the 8 and 9 hole, too protected by weak hitters - it was also his first couple of months of mlb. He did show his 15=20 hr power though.

It would be better to use Swisher elsewhere - but if the alterntive is .330 out of the leadoff spot, swisher needs to be there.

Dye would be a good 3 hole hitter, too. He can get on base and has a good eye....thing is, hitting 5, he feels that he needs to drive in the run because he's a better hitter than the guys behind him. In the 3 hole, he's a more complete hitter. Now that applies to pretty much anyone who hits in the 3 hole - that's generally the most favorable position in which to hit, so you should always perform better there than elsewhere. But Dye's pretty good at it.

munchman33
02-04-2008, 06:31 PM
#3, best hitter on the team at this point...

Jim Thome and Paul Konerko are still on this team.

JB98
02-04-2008, 07:03 PM
Nothing wrong with some pop out of the leadoff spot. That person does get the most at bats. Richar has some pop, actually. If he can get on base 35% of the time, he'd be a really nice leadoff hitter. He didn't do it last time - but he was hitting in the 8 and 9 hole, too protected by weak hitters - it was also his first couple of months of mlb. He did show his 15=20 hr power though.

It would be better to use Swisher elsewhere - but if the alterntive is .330 out of the leadoff spot, swisher needs to be there.

Dye would be a good 3 hole hitter, too. He can get on base and has a good eye....thing is, hitting 5, he feels that he needs to drive in the run because he's a better hitter than the guys behind him. In the 3 hole, he's a more complete hitter. Now that applies to pretty much anyone who hits in the 3 hole - that's generally the most favorable position in which to hit, so you should always perform better there than elsewhere. But Dye's pretty good at it.

I wouldn't mind seeing Dye placed in the three hole, just to give another good hitter the chance to be on ahead of Thome. We don't want situations where they can pitch around Big Jim, who even at his advancing age is the most feared hitter on our squad.

Swisher CF
Cabrera SS
Dye RF
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
AJ C
Crede 3B
Quentin LF
Richar 2B

SoxNation05
02-04-2008, 07:10 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Dye placed in the three hole, just to give another good hitter the chance to be on ahead of Thome. We don't want situations where they can pitch around Big Jim, who even at his advancing age is the most feared hitter on our squad.

Swisher CF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
AJ C
Fields 3B
Quentin LF
Richar 2B
All better.

JorgeFabregas
02-04-2008, 07:22 PM
Not going to happen, but count me in for Swisher at leadoff.

JB98
02-04-2008, 07:23 PM
All better.

If Crede is here, he's playing.

Metalthrasher442
02-04-2008, 10:49 PM
I really like him batting 2nd and think that's where he'd be the best at..but then again I don't like two lefties right by each other (Thome, Swisher). So actually I wouldn't mind the 5th spot either..who knows if any of our lead off guys would get on for him anyway!

EndemicSox
02-04-2008, 10:50 PM
Jim Thome and Paul Konerko are still on this team.

Surely, and if they can rebound, they will be in the argument...but at this point in time, I feel Paulie and Thome are more suited to the 4-6 range, imo...

It's Time
02-05-2008, 12:58 PM
IMO, third. He is a run producer.

fquaye149
02-05-2008, 01:28 PM
the 3 hitter debate raises the issue of when Batting AVerage becomes important.

I think OBP is pretty much the measure of an effective hitter, but in the RBI spots, it's possible when you have a guy like Thome or potentially Dye who can put up similar-to-better OBP's as Swisher and higher BA's than Swisher, they would be the guys to bat there. Even Paulie, who will likely have a lower OBP but a higher BA and SLG might be preferable for the 3 or 4 spots. I like Swisher in the 1,2,3,4 or 5 spot but I think 1,2 and 5 might be best suited for him

Corlose 15
02-05-2008, 02:47 PM
If Owens leads off I think this would work well:

Owens L
Cabrera R
Thome L
Konerko R
Swisher S
Dye R
Pierzynski L
Fields R
Richar L

That would make opposing pitching matchups difficult because it you've flipped pretty much every batter except Richar Owens. Plus Dye provides solid protection for Swisher and Swisher protects Konerko. Also, you have good to great speed in the 8,9,1,2 spots in the order. Its very balanced.

gogosox16
02-05-2008, 02:49 PM
If Owens leads off I think this would work well:

Owens L
Cabrera R
Thome L
Konerko R
Swisher S
Dye R
Pierzynski L
Fields R
Richar L

That would make opposing pitching matchups difficult because it you've flipped pretty much every batter except Richar Owens. Plus Dye provides solid protection for Swisher and Swisher protects Konerko. Also, you have good to great speed in the 8,9,1,2 spots in the order. Its very balanced.
I think you should have Swisher 3rd, Thome 4th, Konerko 5th, Dye 6th, Fields 7th, A.J 8th, and Danny 9th

Foulke You
02-05-2008, 07:08 PM
He's a prototypical #3 hitter. But that would mean moving Thome down the order which I'm for, but I doubt Ozzie would do.

1. Owens / Ozuna (vs. tough lefties)
2. Cabrera (check his leadoff numbers - not so good)
3. Swisher
4. Konerko
5. Thome
6. Dye
7. A.J. / Crede
8. Fields / A.J.
9. Richar / Uribe
I'd argue that Swisher is not a prototype 3 hitter. He has a high OBP, good power #s, and decent batting avg but his RISP numbers aren't #3 hitter quality. Don't get me wrong, I like Swisher and what he brings to the table but the reason I'd leave Jim in the 3 spot is that he is a much better hitter with runners in scoring position:

Jim Thome career .281 avg RISP, .983 OPS RISP

Nick Swisher career .220 avg RISP, .776 OPS RISP

The numbers tell you that Thome has a history of clearing bases. Thome also brings that "fear" factor to the plate similar to Frank Thomas which you want to have bat for you in the 1st inning of every game. The type of hitter that makes the pitcher go "oh no" after the first two men get on. Guys like Thome, Thomas, Ortiz, Manny, Hafner, Morneau, and Pujols are the type of hitters I'm thinking of. Swisher is very good but isn't quite at the elite slugger level yet. I wouldn't be outraged if Swisher is batting 3rd but I think Thome is clearly the better choice.

Foulke You
02-05-2008, 07:14 PM
My point is, though, that Dye will give us those 75-95 RBIs out of the fifth spot. Swisher might only give us 50-65 RBIs in the leadoff spot, but he will also give us 100 runs scored.

I'm not sure Owens or Richar will give us 50-65 RBIs, plus 100 runs scored, out of the leadoff spot.

Swisher, to me, is capable of being either a table-setter or an RBI man. Since we have several other proven RBI men (Thome, Paulie, JD, to a lesser extent AJ and Crede) and very few proven table-setters, why not put Swisher in the table-setter role? That's what the team needs.

And I don't see how you can compare Swisher to Soriano. Totally different styles of hitters. Compare the number of pitches seen and the number of walks taken, and there is no comparison.
You make some valid points for Swisher at the leadoff spot. He takes a lot of pitches and gets on base a lot which is what you want from a leadoff man. On the downside though, he is not very quick on the basepaths and I just generally like my 30-35 HR guys to be somewhere further down the lineup where they can maximize that production. You are correct that Swisher is a much different hitter than Soriano but I think the wasted power #s would be very similar if Swish batted leadoff. I think it is safe to say that 75-80% of his HRs will be solo shots in that spot in the order.

You are right that the team does still need a leadoff hitter. I just hope we can find a good one that allows us to bat Swisher where his power could be utilized better.

chisox77
02-05-2008, 07:42 PM
Swisher will be happy wherever he bats in the lineup.




:cool:

Milkman43
02-05-2008, 10:21 PM
Swisher is not a top of the order type of hitter. I like him in the 6 hole

Tragg
02-06-2008, 12:12 AM
the 3 hitter debate raises the issue of when Batting AVerage becomes important.

I think OBP is pretty much the measure of an effective hitter, but in the RBI spots, it's possible when you have a guy like Thome or potentially Dye who can put up similar-to-better OBP's as Swisher and higher BA's than Swisher, they would be the guys to bat there. Even Paulie, who will likely have a lower OBP but a higher BA and SLG might be preferable for the 3 or 4 spots. I like Swisher in the 1,2,3,4 or 5 spot but I think 1,2 and 5 might be best suited for him
Do you know what position in the order Swisher batted with the As?

fquaye149
02-06-2008, 12:29 AM
Do you know what position in the order Swisher batted with the As?


does it matter? he's with the Sox now. The A's didn't, in 2007, have any hitters of the caliber of Thome or Konerko

Jerksticks
02-06-2008, 03:21 AM
Maybe leadoff isn't such a bad spot. Imagine if Quentin and Richar both hit like they possibly could, then Swish clears them off the bases from the 1hole. Cabrera knocks him over/in and the meat of the order is up.

We could get used to seeing that.

JSticks

jabrch
02-06-2008, 11:51 AM
1, 3, 5, 6 or 7...anywhere in that area is fine with me. I don't think it would matter much at all in terms of wins/losses