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shoelessshaun27!
02-01-2008, 02:02 PM
After an off-season of questionable and at times mind boggling transactions, General manager Kenny Williams actually believes that the 2008 White Sox are legitimate ďCompetitorsĒ. Iím sorry Kenny but the Sox are really anything but. This team has so many questions that itís hard to pick where to start asking them.
To begin, I have to look at how the past transactions have turned out for the Sox. Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik and Louis Visciano may have worked out initially but is now looking like a joke. Letting go Magglio Ordonez was a great move- heís now an MVP candidate for a World Championship caliber Detroit Tigers team. Damaso Marte for Rob Macowiak, keep in mind Marte was dominating lefties for the lowly Pirates and held them to a miniscule .97 era. Jaun Uribe for Aaron Miles has to turn some heads as well. But enough about the past, lets take a look at how the team is shaping up for this year.
Why Kenny, did you trade one the best second baseman in the league in Tadahito Iguchi for a single A reliever. At the time there was no secure backup or a sure prospect to fill take over. Danny Richar got a considerable amount of playing time and showed that he really doesnít belong in the majors. Seriously speaking, Willie Harris is better than this guy. And the comparisons donít end with the number one that both shared on the back of their jerseys.
Jaun Uribe is a great fielding shortstop but a dismal hitter. Heís over weight, out of shape, and has no plate discipline. We thought we saw Uribe finally growing up into the dominating player he can be during the World Series, but all that carried to was him leading the team in sac- flyís. Whoopee. Orlando Cabrera is some what of an upgrade at the position but was not worth what the sox gave up to get him. John Garland is, and will always be a better pitcher than Cabrera is a shortstop. Keep in mind that up until the í07 season, Garland had won 18 games in both of the previous two seasons, while Cabrera has hit over .300 only once in his career. Kenny Williams appears to be shopping Uribe, something he should have been doing the past two seasons, but should not expect to get much more for him than another double A pitcher. He canít hit so what team would really want him since there are such better options at the position. The Sox obviously donít need him with Cabrera, Pablo Ozuna, and newly acquired utility player/ Cuban import, Alexei Ramirez.
Nick Swisher is an average player at best. Heís a career .250 hitter so he should fit right in with the rest of the team. He may posses that hard nosed grinder style that is defined as Sox ball, but then again, so did Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand. Giving up Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeny, and Fautino De Los Santos, the number 1, 2, and 3 rated prospects respectively defiantly makes the top ten on the long list of bad decisions that Kenny Williams has plagued Sox fans with throughout his managerial career. Jermaine Dye is aged but a lock in right field, Swisher in left, but who will be playing center? Please, not Carlos Quintin. It looks like it could be, with Jerry Owens in the mix as well. With those two to duke it out for the job you might as well give it to Jerry Owens, but letís not remember the last time the Sox ďgave awayĒ the center fielding job. Does the name Brian Anderson ring a bell?
We all know Jerry Reinsdorf doesnít pay pitchers but now isnít a bad time to start. On paper, the starting rotation looks like, Mark Buehle, Javier Vasquez, Jose Contreres, John Danks, and Gavin Floyd. Buehle and Vasquez are clearly the best pitchers here but they can only pitch once every five days. No one really knows how old Contreres actually is. Is he 37 like he says he is or is he 47? Iím guessing the latter by the way he pitched last season. He had a 5.57 era and showed no signs of the domination he showed in í05 and early í06. Aside from Vasquez, John Danks was about the most consistent pitcher in the rotation. We saw Gavin Floyd at the end of the season and he really didnít look impressive. But of course the master pitching coach, Don Cooper, will fix everything and we will all be able to sleep soundly. Please. This guy hasnít done anything with this staff since í05 and some may call that luck. We could say that we wouldnít need to be worrying about pitching woes if Williams hadnít traded Brandon McCarthy, but lets not open that can of worms.
Shifting focus we turn out attention to the hot corner, and specifically Joe Crede. What is his future? Itís evident that owner Jerry Reinsdorf doesnít get along with about half the baseball community, and this includes Scott Boras, who coincidentally happens to be Credeís agent. Odds are that Crede isnít with the team when the break from spring training. Josh Fields hopes to be ready to take over but is not half of the fielder Joe was. A lot of teams will be taking a close look at Crede. Heís easily Williamsí biggest bargaining chip for youthful talent. We can only hope and prey that Kenny doesnít screw this one up like heís prone to doing time and time again.
Finally we arrive to the bullpen, possibly the worst area of this team. Bobby Jenks is a spectacular closer but where is that 100mph heater we grew accustomed to seeing in the World Series. Kenny Williams shelled out top dollar to acquired journeyman pitchers Scott Linebrick and Octavio Dotel. They werenít any good with their other teams and donít appear to be much better with the Southsiders. Why are Andrew Sisco and Mike McDougal still on the 40 man roster? They both used up their frequent flyer miles traveling from Chicago to Charlotte last season. David Aaaaaaarrrrrrrdsma finally has headed to Boston, but for a converted outfielder. Oh joy. Ehren Wassermann and Boone Logan really showed up at the end of last season but time will tell if they are the real deal. All in all, this unit needs a lot of help and luck to lower that 5 plus era that plagued them last year.
If thereís area that needs a tune up, above all, it has to be the General Manager. Kenny Williamsí cheap approach to building a team evidently doesnít work. Luck and great team chemistry guided him through the 2005 season, but now that has run short and its time he started assembling a real team. Heís depleted the farm system and all talent he had and has replaced it with imports, lousy batting averages, and poor fielding. The pale hoes need a competitive manager that isnít afraid to spend the bucks. Kenny Williams should really trade himself for the Sox to have a chance in the upcoming years.

hi im skot
02-01-2008, 02:05 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?

Domeshot17
02-01-2008, 02:05 PM
This may not be the nutshell but I may have found the nut

Nothing good comes from kids not having school

Nellie_Fox
02-01-2008, 02:06 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?Not me. But I think I can sum up: Kenny is cheap. Fire him.

JackK
02-01-2008, 02:08 PM
Can someone ban this guy?

Daver
02-01-2008, 02:09 PM
Can someone ban this guy?

Why?

CHIsoxNation
02-01-2008, 02:10 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?

I got to the part where he criticized KW for letting Ordonez go and how the Carlos Lee/Pods trade is a joke...then I gave up.

areilly
02-01-2008, 02:11 PM
If thereís area that needs a tune up, above all, it has to be the General Manager. Kenny Williamsí cheap approach to building a team evidently doesnít work.

I have a lot of problems with how the Sox do business, but this is an inaccurate statement: it's Reinsdorf's economics that drives what Williams can and cannot do, and what he can and cannot offer. The aversion to top-dollar FA's, the short contracts, etc., all pre-date Kenny's tenure as White Sox GM. Put him in charge of the Angels, Mariners, Cubs, or some other free-spending team and I'm sure he could build a dynasty. So it goes.

...
02-01-2008, 02:13 PM
I can't think of a bigger waste of time, congrats...

CRAW
02-01-2008, 02:13 PM
Cliff Notes anyone? Please?

Corlose 15
02-01-2008, 02:17 PM
Cliff Notes anyone? Please?

Every single decision that KW has made over the last 2 years has been the wrong one.

Jaffar
02-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Every single decision that KW has made over the last 2 years has been the wrong one.

Technically he goes back further because he includes letting Maggs go and trading CLee for Pods.

Chipol
02-01-2008, 02:30 PM
I sense a new Mariotti in the making...

thomas35forever
02-01-2008, 02:31 PM
:moron
"Hey kid, I just may have a summer job for you."

shoelessshaun27!
02-01-2008, 02:33 PM
whts the job bro

chaotic8512
02-01-2008, 02:33 PM
Sorry, but if you're going to make criticisms like that, at least get all your information straight. Journeyman Scott Linebrink? Swisher average at best? Have you taken a look at his OBP/OPS? And all those misspellings must have kittle42 in a coma at the moment. (And for the record, I stopped trying to read that tirade at about the halfway mark. Frankly, just scanning it was painful.)

thomas35forever
02-01-2008, 02:38 PM
whts the job bro
:roflmao:

For real? Oh man, that is too perfect. Thanks for making my day.

spawn
02-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?
I stopped after the first couple of sentences. it looked to be a jumbled mess.

btrain929
02-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?

I saw how long it was, and proceeded to start reading the other comments to see how many people were gonna comment on poor construction. Way to not let me know, skot :)

PS.....Paragraphs and blank lines for separation are a good thing.

bigsoxfan420
02-01-2008, 02:40 PM
:moron
"Hey kid, I just may have a summer job for you."


Nice!

Grzegorz
02-01-2008, 02:43 PM
After an off-season of questionable and at times mind boggling transactions, General manager Kenny Williams actually believes that the 2008 White Sox are legitimate ďCompetitorsĒ. Iím sorry Kenny but the Sox are really anything but. This team has so many questions that itís hard to pick where to start asking them.

Championships are won on the field, not on paper. BTW, every team has questions.

I'd like to see the starting pitching improve but I am cautiously optimistic about the relief corp. Regardless of the Crede-Fields issue I feel the offense will be more than adequate.

This year will come down to pitching.

Steelrod
02-01-2008, 02:44 PM
I'm surprised he didn't threaten to give up his season ticket to Fundimentals!

PalehosePlanet
02-01-2008, 02:45 PM
I got to the part where he criticized KW for letting Ordonez go and how the Carlos Lee/Pods trade is a joke...then I gave up.

You should have gutted it out just a little longer. He's actually goes on to bemoan trading Aaron Miles for Uribe; :rolling:.

Jerksticks
02-01-2008, 02:47 PM
Dude, you represent everything I stand against as a Sox fan. I love the line, "don't wanna open that can of worms", right after opening every can of worms in the backyard.

In no portion of your post was I in any form of agreement. None. But good luck with that summer job; hopefully it keeps you away from 35th St.

JSticks

sox1970
02-01-2008, 02:56 PM
PVJXVJfY90s

California Sox
02-01-2008, 02:56 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?

Nope. It's gonna sound great when he reads it on the phone to Jim Rome though.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 03:00 PM
The responses to posts lately have been somehat baffling.

The OP obviously just cut and pasted this article from another source without any acknowledgement. The other source obviously has the spelling capability of a 5 year-old, and knows little-to-nothing about White Sox baseball or the organization. These two things were easy enough to figure out.

Then it became apparent that the OP was probably a 13 year-old (actually 16) when he actually believed someone was talking about a summer job.

Maybe semi-anonymous communication over the internet just isn't for everyone.

LITTLE NELL
02-01-2008, 03:03 PM
Some trades just dont pan out but KWs moves in 05 gave me, a lifetime White Sox fan, a World Championship that I will treasure till the day I die. I will not knock any trade he makes because Im sure he wants another WS championship. KW (or any other GM) does not make bad trades on purpose, he makes a trade because he believes the White Sox will be better.

ChiSoxLifer
02-01-2008, 03:16 PM
Anyone who worships Sammy Sosa obviously has their head stuck up his you know what.

hi im skot
02-01-2008, 03:22 PM
Anyone who worships Sammy Sosa obviously has their head stuck up his you know what.

I think you might have missed the point there...

MCHSoxFan
02-01-2008, 03:30 PM
This may not be the nutshell but I may have found the nut

Nothing good comes from kids not having school

Hey!!! :D:

For real, though. I am usually pretty good at saying something sensible.

asindc
02-01-2008, 03:47 PM
PVJXVJfY90s

Good one!

chisox77
02-01-2008, 04:06 PM
Opinions cost nothing.

Therefore . . .


:cool:

IlliniSox4Life
02-01-2008, 04:13 PM
Anybody actually make it through this?

No.

Technically he goes back further because he includes letting Maggs go and trading CLee for Pods.

Yeah. Those moves totally didn't work out for.....wait a second, we won the World Series in 2005, right?

eriqjaffe
02-01-2008, 04:15 PM
That's the White Sox in a nutshell?

No, this is the White Sox in a nutshell: "Help! We're in a nutshell! How did we get into this bloody great big nutshell? What kind of shell has a nut like this?"

spawn
02-01-2008, 04:20 PM
That's the White Sox in a nutshell?

More like the White Sox as told by a nutcase.

IlliniSox4Life
02-01-2008, 04:22 PM
Yeah, isn't the term "in a nutshell" supposed to mean something like a small and condensed version? What about that post was in a nutshell?

eriqjaffe
02-01-2008, 04:24 PM
Yeah, isn't the term "in a nutshell" supposed to mean something like a small and condensed version? What about that post was in a nutshell?Imagine the version he didn't post.

jabrch
02-01-2008, 04:25 PM
The OP obviously just cut and pasted this article from another source without any acknowledgement.

Can you substantiate that? I don't doubt it - just curious.

oeo
02-01-2008, 04:29 PM
Can you substantiate that? I don't doubt it - just curious.

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/137235

spawn
02-01-2008, 04:31 PM
http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/137235
Good find!

oeo
02-01-2008, 04:32 PM
Good find!

Copy and paste a paragraph into Google, and it's right there.

doublem23
02-01-2008, 04:33 PM
In a nutshell...

White Sox is 2 words. Critique my favoirte team all you like, but please at least spell their name correctly.

spawn
02-01-2008, 04:33 PM
Copy and paste a paragraph into Google, and it's right there.
Believe it or not, I tried that. I did it for both Google and Yahoo. No dice.

shoelessshaun27!
02-01-2008, 04:34 PM
yes i posted this article on different sites thanks for noticing and me and my friend share the accounts im kevin he is shaun

thanks for doing that research bud

oeo
02-01-2008, 04:35 PM
yes i posted this article on different sites thanks for noticing and me and my friend share the accounts im kevin he is shaun

thanks for doing that research bud

If research consists of copying and pasting (all of 10 seconds of work).

And if this is your work, why didn't you just post a link, instead of making this unreadable post?

kittle42
02-01-2008, 04:37 PM
If research consists of copying and pasting (all of 10 seconds of work).

And if this is your work, why didn't you just post a link, instead of making this unreadable post?

And if this is your work, you should have your baseball fan privileges revoked. I also would like to speak with your teachers. :cool:

WizardsofOzzie
02-01-2008, 04:38 PM
Anyone know who Jaun Uribe is? It that Juan's little brother on our AA team? :?:

shoelessshaun27!
02-01-2008, 04:39 PM
i was trying to get my opinion noticed and tryed posting it on different sites

I dont understand where you get off question the originality of my writing

kaufsox
02-01-2008, 04:42 PM
If that's a nutshell, I'd hate to see what happens if he goes on at length:rolleyes:

GAsoxfan
02-01-2008, 04:42 PM
My favorite was the part about the rotation. He said Danks was consistent, but he's worried about Contreras and Floyd. Then he says:


We could say that we wouldn't need to be worrying about pitching woes if Williams hadn't traded Brandon McCarthy, but lets not open that can of worms.


Do you not know that McCarthy was traded for Danks? How is keeping McCarthy going to take care of Floyd or Contreras?

IlliniSox4Life
02-01-2008, 04:43 PM
http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/137235

That's his blog. Both profiles say he is from New Lenox




Alright, so I copy and pasted this into a word document and then skipped lines in between paragraphs so I could actually read it. I will give you some of my favorite parts:

Letting go Magglio Ordonez was a great move- heís now an MVP candidate for a World Championship caliber Detroit Tigers team.

Magglio is a bit better hitter than Dye, yes. However in 2006 Dye did have a better Avg, and he also hit for 20 more HRs than Mags that year. 2005? He was World Series MVP. I would rather have a WS MVP than an "MVP candidate" on a "WS caliber team". Do you even remember the circumstances which Magglio left under? Also, Dye makes 7 million. Magglio makes 13.2 million. I will take Dye's numbers for his price tag over Mags numbers for his price tag anyday. Oh yeah, Mags has been linked to 'roids.

Kenny Williams appears to be shopping Uribe, something he should have been doing the past two seasons,

Do you seriously believe Kenny Williams hasn't been shopping Uribe for the past few seasons? Is it possible that he hasn't gotten any worthwhile offers?

He may posses that hard nosed grinder style that is defined as Sox ball, but then again, so did Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand.

Torii Hunter was all but a White Sock when he was offered a ridiculous contract by another team. He was not worth what it would have cost to get him.

We all know Jerry Reinsdorf doesnít pay pitchers

We do? Hasn't he re-signed plenty of pitchers in the last 2 years?

We could say that we wouldnít need to be worrying about pitching woes if Williams hadnít traded Brandon McCarthy, but lets not open that can of worms.

What can of worms is that? The "Kenny is so stupid because he traded away a pitcher who had a 5-10 record and 4.87 ERA last season and got injured" can?

Finally we arrive to the bullpen, possibly the worst area of this team. Bobby Jenks is a spectacular closer but where is that 100mph heater we grew accustomed to seeing in the World Series.

Bobby Jenks has had back to back 40 save seasons BUT HE HASNT THROWN 100 MPH WHILE DOING IT. HE IS A FAILURE.


And my favorite...
Kenny Williamsí cheap approach to building a team evidently doesnít work.

Rank Team 2007 Payroll 2006 Payroll Change
1 Yankees $195,229,045 $198,662,180 $(3,433,135)
2 Red Sox $143,526,214 $120,100,524 $23,425,690
3 Mets $117,915,819 $100,901,085 $17,014,734
4 White Sox $109,680,167 $102,875,667 $6,804,500
5 Angels $109,251,333 $103,625,333 $5,626,000
6 Dodgers $108,704,524 $99,176,950 $9,527,574
7 Mariners $106,516,833 $88,324,500 $18,192,333
8 Cubs $99,937,000 $94,841,167 $5,095,833
9 Tigers $95,180,369 $82,302,069 $12,878,300

Notice how we were 4th in the league in payroll in both 2006 and 2007. Ahead of the Dodgers, Angels, and Cubs. Do you really expect us to spend more than the Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets? Seriously, those teams are 3 of the top 5 fanbases in all of baseball. We are probably somewhere around 10th as far as fan base goes.

oeo
02-01-2008, 04:47 PM
i was trying to get my opinion noticed and tryed posting it on different sites

I dont understand where you get off question the originality of my writing

I honestly don't care either way. :dunno:

I was just asking why you didn't just post a link, because that post is very difficult to read.

Domeshot17
02-01-2008, 04:49 PM
Not to get into how terrible most of this little childish rant is, but if you want to post the same useless fluff on multiple sites, do yourself a favor, and hit spell check. That or learn to spell the names of the players right.

shoelessshaun27!
02-01-2008, 04:51 PM
i could respond to all of these arguments but i realy dont want to waste my time with people like you


but thanks for realizing that both blogs belong to me- i commend a man that will serously waste his time doing something like that

kaufsox
02-01-2008, 04:53 PM
i could respond to all of these arguments but i realy dont want to waste my time with people like you



Well thanks for that. I don't have a month to read all of your "concise" rebuttals

oeo
02-01-2008, 04:56 PM
but thanks for realizing that both blogs belong to me- i commend a man that will serously waste his time doing something like that

The only time that was wasted was me reading this...

Finding your blog, again, took all of 10 seconds. I copied the first paragraph, pasted it into Google, and BAM it was the first result. I apologize for 'wasting my time' like that, it won't happen again.

guillen4life13
02-01-2008, 04:56 PM
i could respond to all of these arguments but i realy dont want to waste my time with people like you


but thanks for realizing that both blogs belong to me- i commend a man that will serously waste his time doing something like that

You mean the arguments that totally took yours apart? You might make a good politician someday.

doublem23
02-01-2008, 05:00 PM
It's nice to play armchair GM, especially when you have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

How many World Series rings do you have, kid? :cool:

Have a nice day.

P.S... Why don't we have a tag of the World Series celebration? So far, it's been one of the defining moments of my life. We need to start a thread around here and have a contest to find a pic that best illustrates the glorious '05 World Series. I know we have the AJ Walk-Off shot, but there should really be something with the World Series trophy in it. Seriously.

shoelessshaun27!
02-01-2008, 05:05 PM
though, I am a kid, my opinions are backed by solid points and good arguements. All you people can say is that I'm a kid and that I took this from someone elses blog

eriqjaffe
02-01-2008, 05:06 PM
P.S... Why don't we have a tag of the World Series celebration? So far, it's been one of the defining moments of my life. We need to start a thread around here and have a contest to find a pic that best illustrates the glorious '05 World Series.How 'bout this?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9826/worldseriesgame4photo6rr8.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=worldseriesgame4photo6rr8.jpg)

Domeshot17
02-01-2008, 05:13 PM
though, I am a kid, my opinions are backed by solid points and good arguements. All you people can say is that I'm a kid and that I took this from someone elses blog

The problem is they are not

You want us to not let maggs go instead of Dye because maggs is possibly mvp worthy on a possible world series team.

Dye was the best player in baseball in 2006 and did not win mvp SOLELY because the pitching sucked. He was world series mvp. I don't know what kind of fan you are, but for most of us, being a fan means being thrilled over a world series title.

This is like fighting with my little 15 year old sister. You are so full of circular I am correct you are wrong logic that it makes it impossible.

Atleast I can guess where this thread will be by this time tomorrow.

Sargeant79
02-01-2008, 05:13 PM
though, I am a kid, my opinions are backed by solid points and good arguements. All you people can say is that I'm a kid and that I took this from someone elses blog

Actually, I think that other posters have done a fair job of disproving your points and debasing your arguments, not to mention calling attention to the general difficulty in reading your first post.

Personally, I'll acknowledge that the White Sox have a lot of question marks for the 2008 season, however I don't agree with just about any of your opinions. You are, of course, entitled to them, but I do suggest that you have facts to back up your arguments in order to be taken seriously.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 05:17 PM
i was trying to get my opinion noticed and tryed posting it on different sites

I dont understand where you get off question the originality of my writing

These two "sentences" are definitely original! Sleep through first-period English much?

oeo
02-01-2008, 05:18 PM
though, I am a kid, my opinions are backed by solid points and good arguements. All you people can say is that I'm a kid and that I took this from someone elses blog

I think it's more about what seems be a lack of effort that was put into it. Grammatical errors, spelling names wrong, etc. don't land you a lot of credibility around here. Honestly, if this was actually well-written, there probably wouldn't be 5 pages on it right now, and no one would have even checked your age. You put yourself into that predicament.

Your opinion still likely would have been criticized, but that's what you came here for, isn't it? If you're not ready for criticism, then don't post it for feedback.

doublem23
02-01-2008, 05:29 PM
How 'bout this?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9826/worldseriesgame4photo6rr8.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=worldseriesgame4photo6rr8.jpg)

I like, but that's too big. A tag needs to be in that medium size, so it doesn't overtake the whole post. But I like where your head's at.

Back on topic, if the Sox had Maggs and didn't sign Dye, they would not have won the World Series in 2005. I can't scientifcally prove that, but in my heart, I know it to be true.

Dolanski
02-01-2008, 05:42 PM
If you want to impress people with your "intellijints" and get your opinion out there, the first way you can get people to take you seriously is spell correctly, and maybe clean up your paste job so the paragraphs are actually there.

For that matter, maybe you should focus your argument (arguement, as you put it). You were all over the place and it completely muddle whatever point you were trying to make.

Finally, its just common sense to know that any criticism of moves that brought a World Series after 80+ years is just stupid.

Your lack of grammar and spelling wants me to go to your high school and smack your English teacher upside the head.

IlliniSox4Life
02-01-2008, 06:04 PM
i could respond to all of these arguments but i realy dont want to waste my time with people like you


but thanks for realizing that both blogs belong to me- i commend a man that will serously waste his time doing something like that

though, I am a kid, my opinions are backed by solid points and good arguements. All you people can say is that I'm a kid and that I took this from someone elses blog

Did you read any of the responses to you "solid points" that I and others, made?

Listen, there's a lot of people being hard on you (including myself) here. The main thing wrong with your whole argument is that you made it all at once in one really long post. I've heard plenty of other posters mention some of the things you did, and some of those posters are well respected. If you want to have a discussion and get your viewpoints out, the way to do it is in small amounts that are more on topic. Make or respond to a thread called something like "My concerns over the pitching staff". If you want to focus on what Kenny did, maybe something like "How I think Kenny mishandled the outfield".

Furthermore, when somebody responds with valid points to your argument, don't just say you don't want to waste your time, make a counter argument.

skobabe8
02-01-2008, 06:11 PM
If that's a nutshell, I'd hate to see what happens if he goes on at length:rolleyes:


http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.durant.org/vertical/Sites/%257BB5B26799-4BDC-4AA9-B36D-CD5AA854298E%257D/uploads/%257B56BBA904-BCF7-4D0B-BB74-C1B276AD97B6%257D_WEB.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGTChpjkdpwBwYp3_nJVdcXq8-JdA

FarWestChicago
02-01-2008, 06:12 PM
Does your dad go by the name of champagne030?

Dan Mega
02-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Anyone who thinks the Sox and Reinsdorf are cheap (attention Hangar18 and the Chicago Media) is completely wrong. The Sox payroll percentage compared to their overall revenue is actually nearly the highest in all of baseball, meaning if they have it they'll spend it. Given that and all the stadium upgrades they've been making, no way can the team be called cheap.

They aren't cheap, they just don't overpay for free agents (except for Linebrink and Dotel :redneck).

kittle42
02-01-2008, 08:22 PM
Does your dad go by the name of champagne030?

Excellent.

voodoochile
02-01-2008, 10:11 PM
though, I am a kid, my opinions are backed by solid points and good arguements. All you people can say is that I'm a kid and that I took this from someone elses blog

No your opinions are completely ridiculous and intended simply to get a rise. There is very little actual factual basis in your post.

On the Magglio issue alone, do you really think the Sox would have won the WS in 2005 with Maggs spending 1/2 the year out with a hernia and no Jermaine Dye (You know, the WS MVP dude?)

Also, with Magglio instead of Dye, the Sox would have been short of cash to sign the best 2B in the AL amd AJ Pierzynski just to name a few because Magglio would have been earning WAY more than Dye got paid that season.

You're talking out of your ass...

:whoflungpoo

Edit: In short, if this is the Sox in a nutshell (and it's the world's biggest shell for sure) does that make you the nut (and hence the world's biggest nut?)

soxwon
02-01-2008, 10:26 PM
Great offense,great defense, great bullpen, pretty damn good starters, exciting manager= division winner, likely series champ.
If you dont agree, who cares, i believe you will eventually believe-a.

kaufsox
02-01-2008, 10:39 PM
http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.durant.org/vertical/Sites/%257BB5B26799-4BDC-4AA9-B36D-CD5AA854298E%257D/uploads/%257B56BBA904-BCF7-4D0B-BB74-C1B276AD97B6%257D_WEB.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGTChpjkdpwBwYp3_nJVdcXq8-JdA

:rolling:

sullythered
02-01-2008, 10:46 PM
This is a ton of crap to sift through, but I'll try this approach:


1. Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik and Louis Visciano may have worked out initially but is now looking like a joke.

2. Letting go Magglio Ordonez was a great move- heís now an MVP candidate for a World Championship caliber Detroit Tigers team.

3. Damaso Marte for Rob Macowiak, keep in mind Marte was dominating lefties for the lowly Pirates and held them to a miniscule .97 era.

4. Jaun Uribe for Aaron Miles has to turn some heads as well. But enough about the past, lets take a look at how the team is shaping up for this year.

5. Why Kenny, did you trade one the best second baseman in the league in Tadahito Iguchi for a single A reliever.

6. Danny Richar got a considerable amount of playing time and showed that he really doesnít belong in the majors.

7. Seriously speaking, Willie Harris is better than this guy.

8. Jaun Uribe is a great fielding shortstop but a dismal hitter. Heís over weight, out of shape, and has no plate discipline.

9. Orlando Cabrera is some what of an upgrade at the position but was not worth what the sox gave up to get him. John Garland is, and will always be a better pitcher than Cabrera is a shortstop.

10. Kenny Williams appears to be shopping Uribe, something he should have been doing the past two seasons, but should not expect to get much more for him than another double A pitcher. He canít hit so what team would really want him

11. Nick Swisher is an average player at best. Heís a career .250 hitter so he should fit right in with the rest of the team. He may posses that hard nosed grinder style that is defined as Sox ball, but then again, so did Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand. Giving up Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeny, and Fautino De Los Santos, the number 1, 2, and 3 rated prospects respectively defiantly makes the top ten on the long list of bad decisions that Kenny Williams has plagued Sox fans with throughout his managerial career.

12. Jermaine Dye is aged but a lock in right field, Swisher in left, but who will be playing center? Please, not Carlos Quintin. It looks like it could be, with Jerry Owens in the mix as well. With those two to duke it out for the job you might as well give it to Jerry Owens, but letís not remember the last time the Sox ďgave awayĒ the center fielding job. Does the name Brian Anderson ring a bell?

13. We all know Jerry Reinsdorf doesnít pay pitchers but now isnít a bad time to start.

14. Aside from Vasquez, John Danks was about the most consistent pitcher in the rotation.

15. We saw Gavin Floyd at the end of the season and he really didnít look impressive.

16. We could say that we wouldnít need to be worrying about pitching woes if Williams hadnít traded Brandon McCarthy, but lets not open that can of worms.


1. Initially worked out? Yeah, you could say that. World Series Freaking Championship!

2. Dye=less money, way more productive both during '05 and on average since the trade. Plus it wasn't clear weather or not Magglio would ****ing WALK AGAIN, let alone play baseball when we made the move.

3. Marte was sucking badly when we let him go, and the city had turned on him. He CLEARLY needed a change of scenery.

4. Aaron Miles is Pablo Ozuna. Juan Uribe was a hugely important cog in a championship team.

5. Gooch's contract was up. Baseball is a business. When will people understand that expiring contracts are only worth decent trade value in the NBA?

6. Really? He showed that, huh? He showed me impressive plate pr essence, patience, and improvement throughout his short tenure. But maybe I was watching a different Danny Richar.

7. No. He isn't.

8. See answer 4.

9. Cabrera is a gold glover and a good clutch hitter. He is also likely to sign an extension w/ the Sox. Jon Garland was gone after this year.

10. Juan is a good fielder w/ tons of pop. To say "he can't hit" is misleading when you're talking about a 70 RBI shortstop.

11. Nick Swisher has a better OPS than both Rowand AND Hunter. And tons more power potential. To say he is "average" is ignorant. And Kenny has plagued us with bad decisions? My freaking Grandfather was born, lived a long life, and died without ever seeing a Sox Championship. I got to see one BECAUSE of Kenny Williams' decisions, so bite your ****ing tongue, son.

12. Swisher will be in center, where he was for most of last year. Quentin will likely be in left, once he's healthy, as he is still a phenomenal prospect.

13. See Buehrle, Mark and Vazquez, Javier

14. Wrong. Buehrle.

15. He didn't? Did we have two Gavin Floyds too?

16. What? McCarthy was mediocre and injury prone. On what planet is he the answer?

shoelessshaun27!
02-02-2008, 08:55 AM
1. nobody cares about your grandpa
2. I'm trying to say ( if you can comprehend this) that Kenny may have made deals that worked out immidiatly but in the long run have not fared well. He built a championship team for one year and that was it. If he had a clue to what he was doing he would have a dynasty right now, but he doesn't and that is why he needs to go.

Jjav829
02-02-2008, 09:58 AM
Wait, wait...did he just call Tadahito Iguchi one of the best 2B in the league?

Why Kenny, did you trade one the best second baseman in the league in Tadahito Iguchi for a single A reliever.

Yeah, he did. That's where I stopped reading.

SoxNation05
02-02-2008, 10:03 AM
I am telling myself not to post on this thread because I really don't want to get banned. To say Kenni Willyums shud b fired is uterlee ridickulus.

fquaye149
02-02-2008, 10:10 AM
I love how people are nitpicking his spelling as if that was somehow more idiotic than the sub-normal idiocy expressed in his actual ideas.

His ideas are 100 times more moronic than his spelling and grammar.

"The Lee/Pods trade didn't work out"?

"Reisndorf doesn't pay pitchers"

Carp
02-02-2008, 10:11 AM
I'm trying to say ( if you can comprehend this) that Kenny may have made deals that worked out immidiatly but in the long run have not fared well. He built a championship team for one year and that was it. If he had a clue to what he was doing he would have a dynasty right now, but he doesn't and that is why he needs to go.

How is it KW's fault that the rotation was largely incapable of pitching effectively in '06?

Or maybe its his fault that a number of our hitters performed well under their career averages in '07?

A GM can only do so much, in the end the players have to produce on the field.

Brian26
02-02-2008, 10:18 AM
"The Lee/Pods trade didn't work out"?


It may have worked out initially, but now it's a joke.

"Reisndorf doesn't pay pitchers"

Boone Logan reportedly slept at a homeless shelter over Christmas.

Vestigio
02-02-2008, 10:19 AM
2. I'm trying to say ( if you can comprehend this) that Kenny may have made deals that worked out immidiatly but in the long run have not fared well. He built a championship team for one year and that was it. If he had a clue to what he was doing he would have a dynasty right now, but he doesn't and that is why he needs to go.

:rolleyes:

Its not that simple to build a dynasty in a two to three year window. In todays baseball world, the only way to build a dynasty is to spend big $$$ on FAs year in and out, or have a very deep farm system (neither the Sox have/or willing to do), but even then theres still no guarantee that a team could become a dynasty. The Sox would have been in the playoffs again in '06 if not for the worn down SP, and who knows what would have happened if half of our lineup wasnt injured in '07.

cws05champ
02-02-2008, 10:30 AM
I think the kid just needs to stop reading the Trib and Sun Times and regurgitating their material.

How anyone can knock moves that brought a world series title is idiotic. I don't recall one positive comment in the whole rant....would you seriously want Aaron Miles over Uribe in 2005?

fquaye149
02-02-2008, 10:31 AM
It may have worked out initially, but now it's a joke.


After all that could have been US trading Carlos Lee to Texas in his walk year for Kevin Mench!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

Jaysox
02-02-2008, 10:32 AM
1. nobody cares about your grandpa
2. I'm trying to say ( if you can comprehend this) that Kenny may have made deals that worked out immidiatly but in the long run have not fared well. He built a championship team for one year and that was it. If he had a clue to what he was doing he would have a dynasty right now, but he doesn't and that is why he needs to go.

If you are 16, I am Tom Brady.

kittle42
02-02-2008, 10:49 AM
I love how people are nitpicking his spelling as if that was somehow more idiotic than the sub-normal idiocy expressed in his actual ideas.

His ideas are 100 times more moronic than his spelling and grammar.


True, but even if they were good ideas, their impact would be lessened by his inability to communicate them clearly. I love how people act like Nellie and I (and the rest) are crazy ones when we point out that communicating your thoughts effectively via written word requires using English properly. You know, like everyone learns in ****ING GRADE SCHOOL. Yeah, it's really difficult.

kittle42
02-02-2008, 10:54 AM
How anyone can knock moves that brought a world series title is idiotic. I don't recall one positive comment in the whole rant....would you seriously want Aaron Miles over Uribe in 2005?

1. Take list of stats from 2004-2007.

2. Take the best year from any of those for each player in question.

3. Pretend all those players would have been on the Sox in 2008, and that their stats would, at a minimum, match each player's best season during those years.

4. Call Kenny Williams an idiot for not keeping that "dynasty."

Kid, I think I had a better understanding of baseball when I was making strat-o-matic cards for Ron Kittle at age 8.

kittle42
02-02-2008, 10:56 AM
If you are 16, I am Tom Brady.

C'mon, man. If you don't think 16 year-olds can be this off base these days, you need to start talking to some 16 year-olds. Given the state of education, he's probably getting an A in his debate class.

fquaye149
02-02-2008, 11:00 AM
True, but even if they were good ideas, their impact would be lessened by his inability to communicate them clearly. I love how people act like Nellie and I (and the rest) are crazy ones when we point out that communicating your thoughts effectively via written word requires using English properly. You know, like everyone learns in ****ING GRADE SCHOOL. Yeah, it's really difficult.


Sure. But there's so much to attack here in the ideas.

Methinks his curriculum was mostly based on "not spitting up on your new t-shirt" rather than undangling participles and unsplitting infinitives

cards press box
02-02-2008, 11:01 AM
This is a ton of crap to sift through, but I'll try this approach:



1. Initially worked out? Yeah, you could say that. World Series Freaking Championship!

2. Dye=less money, way more productive both during '05 and on average since the trade. Plus it wasn't clear weather or not Magglio would ****ing WALK AGAIN, let alone play baseball when we made the move.

3. Marte was sucking badly when we let him go, and the city had turned on him. He CLEARLY needed a change of scenery.

4. Aaron Miles is Pablo Ozuna. Juan Uribe was a hugely important cog in a championship team.

5. Gooch's contract was up. Baseball is a business. When will people understand that expiring contracts are only worth decent trade value in the NBA?

6. Really? He showed that, huh? He showed me impressive plate pr essence, patience, and improvement throughout his short tenure. But maybe I was watching a different Danny Richar.

7. No. He isn't.

8. See answer 4.

9. Cabrera is a gold glover and a good clutch hitter. He is also likely to sign an extension w/ the Sox. Jon Garland was gone after this year.

10. Juan is a good fielder w/ tons of pop. To say "he can't hit" is misleading when you're talking about a 70 RBI shortstop.

11. Nick Swisher has a better OPS than both Rowand AND Hunter. And tons more power potential. To say he is "average" is ignorant. And Kenny has plagued us with bad decisions? My freaking Grandfather was born, lived a long life, and died without ever seeing a Sox Championship. I got to see one BECAUSE of Kenny Williams' decisions, so bite your ****ing tongue, son.

12. Swisher will be in center, where he was for most of last year. Quentin will likely be in left, once he's healthy, as he is still a phenomenal prospect.

13. See Buehrle, Mark and Vazquez, Javier

14. Wrong. Buehrle.

15. He didn't? Did we have two Gavin Floyds too?

16. What? McCarthy was mediocre and injury prone. On what planet is he the answer?

I agree with Sully's response and add only one point -- I think it is far more likely than not that the Sox are not done dealing this offseason. With Johan Santana now with the Mets, the Red Sox will probably move Coco Crisp. Will Crisp end up with the White Sox? We'll see.

And then there is the whole question of what to do with Joe Crede and Mike MacDougal. Crede's contract will expire at the end of the season. Given the fact that Josh Fields is here and shows great potential and given the fact that Crede's agent is Scott Boras, Crede will likely walk. If Crede shows he's healthy in spring training, the Sox will probably deal him. We'll see what comes back in return.

I actually want to add one more point. Why was it so hard for people to understand the Iguchi trade? As Sully correctly points out, his contract expired at the end of 2007. In addition, Iguchi's contract had a clause that required his team to re-sign within, I believe, two weeks after the World Series or else not be able to re-sign him until May 2008. Consequently, by trading Iguchi to the Phillies, the Sox actually increased their flexibility to re-sign Iguchi for 2008 if their other options did not work out.

voodoochile
02-02-2008, 11:03 AM
Even the pessimists are getting in on hammering you, Shaun. The ones who were formerly called dark clouds are calling your ideas ridiculous and stupid and tearing them apart piece by piece. You've done the impossible, unite the PPDC and the Pollyannas in their contempt for your writing skills and the ideas expressed so poorly with those inadequate skills.

And to think, all it took was one horribly conceived and written article. Well done...:rolleyes:

kittle42
02-02-2008, 11:18 AM
Sure. But there's so much to attack here in the ideas.

Methinks his curriculum was mostly based on "not spitting up on your new t-shirt" rather than undangling participles and unsplitting infinitives

:cool:

kittle42
02-02-2008, 11:20 AM
Consequently, by trading Iguchi to the Phillies, the Sox actually increased their flexibility to re-sign Iguchi for 2008 if their other options did not work out.

You can't just let ONE OF THE BEST SECOND BASEMEN IN BASEBALL take his chances elsewhere! You, sir, know nothing of building a dynasty.

soxfan1983
02-02-2008, 11:51 AM
PVJXVJfY90s



HAHAHAHA sooooo true! could not have said it better myself!

Dolanski
02-02-2008, 01:50 PM
I am telling myself not to post on this thread because I really don't want to get banned. To say Kenni Willyums shud b fired is uterlee ridickulus.

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

Amin to dat!

soxrme
02-02-2008, 04:07 PM
I got to the part where he criticized KW for letting Ordonez go and how the Carlos Lee/Pods trade is a joke...then I gave up.
many peope will agree with him on both those items

kittle42
02-02-2008, 04:25 PM
many peope will agree with him on both those items

And those people are all delusional.

Lillian
02-02-2008, 04:56 PM
In response to the criticism over the Iguchi trade, let me quote from my post dated August 21st. I was only speculating at the time, but K.W. stated this as fact at Sox Fest last week. He was not responding to anyone's suggestion to this effect, but merely volunteered the information when asked why we didn't get more for Iguchi.

Needless to say, I got quite a bit of satisfaction out of hearing him state exactly what I had conjectured. I'm not "patting myself on the back", but it is interesting how other things can come into play, about which we are not privy.

Here is the quote:

Perhaps there was more involved than we know
Regarding all of the dissatisfaction over the Iguchi trade, perhaps there was another consideration that could have been factored into this decision.
Isn't it possible that K.W. wanted to make a good faith gesture to Pat Gillick, in an effort to acknowledge that the Phillies haven't been able to use the injured Garcia? There was some suggestion that he may have been "damaged goods".

K. W. seems to like trading with Gillick, and perhaps this was more about maintaining a good relationship for the future. As has already been mentioned here, Iguchi would not have netted us any draft picks, if he had not resigned with the Sox. Therefore, the Sox really didn't give up much by sending him to the Phillies.

Perhaps we should recognize that in these matters there can be other factors involved, about which we may not be privy to all of the facts. Whether or not this was the case here, we may never know, but doesn't it seem unfair to be so critical, not knowing all of the facts?

kittle42
02-02-2008, 05:45 PM
The fact that anyone is debating how or why we traded Iguchi is embarrassing. He sucked. Is that good enough?

munchman33
02-02-2008, 06:02 PM
The fact that anyone is debating how or why we traded Iguchi is embarrassing. He sucked. Is that good enough?

No kidding. Of all the things to nit-pick about. That's a waste of time. He had little value as it was.

shoelessshaun27!
02-02-2008, 06:11 PM
In response to the criticism over the Iguchi trade, let me quote from my post dated August 21st. I was only speculating at the time, but K.W. stated this as fact at Sox Fest last week. He was not responding to anyone's suggestion to this effect, but merely volunteered the information when asked why we didn't get more for Iguchi.

Needless to say, I got quite a bit of satisfaction out of hearing him state exactly what I had conjectured. I'm not "patting myself on the back", but it is interesting how other things can come into play, about which we are not privy.

Here is the quote:

Perhaps there was more involved than we know
Regarding all of the dissatisfaction over the Iguchi trade, perhaps there was another consideration that could have been factored into this decision.
Isn't it possible that K.W. wanted to make a good faith gesture to Pat Gillick, in an effort to acknowledge that the Phillies haven't been able to use the injured Garcia? There was some suggestion that he may have been "damaged goods".

K. W. seems to like trading with Gillick, and perhaps this was more about maintaining a good relationship for the future. As has already been mentioned here, Iguchi would not have netted us any draft picks, if he had not resigned with the Sox. Therefore, the Sox really didn't give up much by sending him to the Phillies.

Perhaps we should recognize that in these matters there can be other factors involved, about which we may not be privy to all of the facts. Whether or not this was the case here, we may never know, but doesn't it seem unfair to be so critical, not knowing all of the facts?


I don't know how you can live with yourself after saying something like that

Daver
02-02-2008, 06:14 PM
I don't know how you can live with yourself after saying something like that

The same way you do after the truly misguided and idiotic statements you have made in the last two days. I can't call you moron because it would be an insult to morons all over the world.

Lillian
02-02-2008, 06:38 PM
I don't know how you can live with yourself after saying something like that

I think that you are very confused. Didn't you understand what I wrote?
Kenny Williams stated almost exactly what I had written. I was simply pointing out that at Sox Fest last weekend, he explained his trading of Iguchi in the same terms, about which I had speculated last summer.

Why would it be difficult to "live with myself" for having accurately speculated about his motive, when he has now revealed that his motive was precisely what I suggested?

rowand33
02-02-2008, 06:53 PM
Wow...

how can somebody call into questions moves that won us a world series?

Kid, can you please start rooting for the Cubs?

You belong there.

Jaysox
02-02-2008, 06:54 PM
The same way you do after the truly misguided and idiotic statements you have made in the last two days. I can't call you moron because it would be an insult to morons all over the world.

best. reply. ever.

ws05champs
02-02-2008, 07:23 PM
I donít know why everybody is so critical of the statements made by the OP. I feel this is the single most important thread since this one where Fenway revealed that Tom Cruise is building a bunker to hide from the evil intergalactic ruler Xenu when he attacks the earth. Hell, without that news I would be totally unprepared.

Now I know why we have anguished over the fact that the Sox have not won a World Series Championship in more than 2 seasons. Itís all Kenny Williamsí fault.

Jerry, I know you are always reading these threads and taking our advise seriously. So please get rid of Williams already and hire this kid shoelessshaun27! to replace him. Give him a gazillion bazillion dollars to hire all the top talent and prospects out there and we will have World Series Champions on the South Side for decades to come. I even bet that if shoelessshaun27! was the GM in 2005 we might have won 2 World Series Championships that year instead of just one.

BTW I ran this past my dogs before I posted it and they said they totally agree with me.

shoelessshaun27! weíre with you man.

Dan the Man
02-02-2008, 10:17 PM
The White Sox in a Nutshell:

Kenny Williams assembled a championship team three years ago. After a down year in '07, he has made moves to try and get back into contention in the tough American League.

tebman
02-02-2008, 10:36 PM
I just finished reading this whole thread and I'm trying to figure out if shaun is sincere in his incoherence or if it's a well-designed gag.

I used to wonder the same thing about Horsemaster Fred, though I think he was more of an avant-garde prose craftsman. I don't know -- shoelessshaun27! might be a natural performance artist whose medium is a paragraph of ungrammatical non sequiturs.

On the off chance he's sincere, I have to cast my lot with the chorus of respondents and say that he has no idea what he's talking about. :tongue:

pearso66
02-02-2008, 11:39 PM
After he asked how someone could live with themselves after a post he made that was basically confirmed by KW, you know for a fact this guy is just a joke and trying to get a rise out of people. He is just trying to start fights. He obviously knows that people will react harshly to his posts, because who in their right mind would actually believe any of that. I mean come on, the Maggs and Lee moves were good for 1 year, but bad after that? They won a Championship, I would gladly take that for 1 year than still have Maggs and Lee here and not have won anything.

gogosox16
02-02-2008, 11:56 PM
The White Sox in a Nutshell:

Kenny Williams assembled a championship team three years ago. After a down year in '07, he has made moves to try and get back into contention in the tough American League.
And that is all you can pretty much ask to do...put out a team that can compete year in year out.

TheVulture
02-03-2008, 08:37 PM
Can someone ban this guy?
why?

Perusing the code of conduct and Things Every Poster Should Know Rules thread, this is the best I could come up with:


We don't allow trolling.

voodoochile
02-03-2008, 09:14 PM
Perusing the code of conduct and Things Every Poster Should Know Rules thread, this is the best I could come up with:

We also don't allow regular posters to dictate who stays and who goes. Leave the moderating to the mods, please.

PalehosePlanet
02-08-2008, 10:40 AM
The pale hoes need a competitive manager.

Pale Hoes?? So you're speaking of women of ill repute with fair complexions?
I agree they do need a good pimp.

voodoochile
02-08-2008, 10:46 AM
Pale Hoes?? So you're speaking of women of ill repute with fair complexions?
I agree they do need a good pimp.

Wouldn't that be hos? I think hoes is plural of hoe, which is an instrument to till the ground with.

In either case, it doesn't add much to the conversation and since this thread has been dead for almost a week. I think I'll just close it.