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View Full Version : C.C.'s time in Cleveland is almost over


D. TODD
01-31-2008, 02:56 PM
A article in the Cleveland plain dealer says that the writing is on the wall, and this will be Sabbathia's final year with the tribe. The eminent huge contract that Santana will get from the Mets will price C.C. out of the Tribe's range. Next year is his free agent year, but the Tribe plans on being in the pennant race, so any trade would still be unlikely this year.

If this is the case, I will be happy to see Johan & C.C. both taking their talents from the central, unless of course Kenny opens the vaults to bring the big guy to the southside down the line.

doublem23
01-31-2008, 03:11 PM
:supernana:

kittle42
01-31-2008, 03:17 PM
Is this due to Eric Wedge's firm crackdown on tilted and straight-brimmed caps? I hear that's what got Ronnie Belliard ticketed out of town.

D. TODD
01-31-2008, 03:30 PM
Is this due to Eric Wedge's firm crackdown on titled and straight-brimmed caps? I hear that's what got Ronnie Belliard ticketed out of town. Strictly financial. They would love to sign him, but with Santana about to break the bank from the Mets, C.C. won't be far behind, and they (or at least this reporter) doesn't think they can or will pony up the necessary loot to keep him in Cleveland.

Dan Mega
01-31-2008, 03:31 PM
A article in the Cleveland plain dealer says that the writing is on the wall, and this will be Sabbathia's final year with the tribe. The eminent huge contract that Santana will get from the Mets will price C.C. out of the Tribe's range.

So even though the Mets are going to probably give Santana record money for a pitcher, you think they'll go after CC too?

oeo
01-31-2008, 03:33 PM
Hopefully Kenny can take some of that unspent cash from this offseason, paired with Thome likely off the books, and lock him in here. I wonder if that's a commitment they're willing to take, though.

I bet he has an off year this year from pitching deep into October, and his pricetag goes down; so Cleveland may be able to bring him back. Let's see how this season plays out first.

Gammons Peter
01-31-2008, 03:36 PM
Maybe explains their interest in Bedard.
SI reporting the Indians are in the mix to aquire him:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/01/31/santana.recap/1.html

chisox77
01-31-2008, 03:36 PM
It's not a bad thing when a division rival's ace leaves that team (via trade or free agency).


:cool:

oeo
01-31-2008, 03:38 PM
Maybe explains their interest in Bedard.
SI reporting the Indians are in the mix to aquire him:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/01/31/santana.recap/1.html

I would honestly be shocked if Shapiro ever made a big deal like that. Doesn't seem to be his style.

D. TODD
01-31-2008, 03:44 PM
So even though the Mets are going to probably give Santana record money for a pitcher, you think they'll go after CC too? Not the Mets in particular, but the market will be set too high for the Indians to keep him. It seems like he will be in the same neighborhood as Santana for the contract, and that means someone other then the Indians will have their logo tilted on the massive southpaw for '09.

turners56
01-31-2008, 04:15 PM
I can see the excuses now for why they didn't resign him, same as the ones given by the Marlins when talking of Miguel Cabrera. "Weight issues".

The free agent market is getting out of hand, every big name pitcher out there is gonna start getting 20+ million. Thanks Scott Boras and Barry Zito, thanks a lot.

DumpJerry
01-31-2008, 04:20 PM
I can see the excuses now for why they didn't resign him, same as the ones given by the Marlins when talking of Miguel Cabrera. "Weight issues".


The free agent market is getting out of hand, every big name pitcher out there is gonna start getting 20+ million. Thanks Scott Boras and Barry Zito, thanks a lot.

Buehrle?

Given Zito's performance last year, I don't think that is really a factor.

Over By There
01-31-2008, 04:25 PM
Is this due to Eric Wedge's firm crackdown on tilted and straight-brimmed caps? I hear that's what got Ronnie Belliard ticketed out of town.

Don't forget Covelli, too. Another member of "crew askew."

Zisk77
01-31-2008, 05:25 PM
I think it would be very unwise to sign CC to Santana-like money. He may deserve it the way he has pitched. However, his continually battle with the bulge will almost inevitably lead to arm problems. He already has had many strange pulled muscle injuries...some including his pitching arm.

WhiteSox5187
01-31-2008, 05:27 PM
I'd love to see him on the Southside, but with JR's "No more than three years" policy, he's not coming here. Either way, get him out of the division!

jenn2080
01-31-2008, 05:29 PM
I wonder if they will hate him the way they do Thome?:?:

Frater Perdurabo
01-31-2008, 05:34 PM
Good news! Maybe the Indians will trade him to a NL team for a bag of low-ceiling prospects.

cards press box
01-31-2008, 05:42 PM
I wonder if they will hate him the way they do Thome?:?:

Yes.

kittle42
01-31-2008, 05:48 PM
Buehrle?


Buehrle is not a big name, no matter what any of us here want to think, and I really like Buehrle.

oeo
01-31-2008, 06:04 PM
Buehrle is not a big name, no matter what any of us here want to think, and I really like Buehrle.

What's your definition of a 'big name.' He's very well known across baseball. And I think you can throw the argument right out the window that he wasn't highly sought after at the trade deadline last year because no one would give up top-notch talent for Johan Santana.

We got Buehrle at a huge discount. Sabathia and Buehrle have been basically the same pitcher, except one is going to earn 4, 5, or maybe even 6 more million a year.

peeonwrigley
01-31-2008, 06:11 PM
The free agent market is getting out of hand, every big name pitcher out there is gonna start getting 20+ million. Thanks Scott Boras and Barry Zito, thanks a lot.


Blame the Giants. Why wouldn't an agent get a player the most money possible? That's his job.

pjchisox13
01-31-2008, 06:22 PM
Blame the Giants. Why wouldn't an agent get a player the most money possible? That's his job.

You know just thinking about it, we do have to Thank the Giants in a way for Santana leaving to the NL. If the Mets would of signed Zito like they were trying last year before the Giants came with that crazy deal, they wouldn't be going after Santana and then he probably wouldn't have left to an NL or maybe not even at all until after this year.

As for CC, it would be nice to see both of the these two lefty pitchers leave. Quite helpful indeed.....

kittle42
01-31-2008, 07:12 PM
What's your definition of a 'big name.' He's very well known across baseball.

So are a lot of guys. By big name, I guess I mean more nationally. Yes, I know that isn't the greatest measure, given national media's fixation on certain teams over others, but I still would stand by my statement that he is not really a "big name" nationally. Would a serious fan know he is the Sox' best pitcher? Yes. Would a casual fan even know him? Not sure. And I would think he's still viewed as a strong No. 2 in most people's eyes, and not an ace, but I really, really don't want to get into that discussion again on these boards.

veeter
01-31-2008, 07:21 PM
What's your definition of a 'big name.' He's very well known across baseball. And I think you can throw the argument right out the window that he wasn't highly sought after at the trade deadline last year because no one would give up top-notch talent for Johan Santana.

We got Buehrle at a huge discount. Sabathia and Buehrle have been basically the same pitcher, except one is going to earn 4, 5, or maybe even 6 more million a year.I agree. MB doesn't have the 'WOW' factor of huge strikeout numbers. And IMO, this keeps him sort of, unknown. He's not huge in fantasy circles or with dopey Kerry Woods type, strike out lovers. And I'm sure GM's and owners are all very enamored with the 'K'.

batmanZoSo
01-31-2008, 07:22 PM
It's good to be in the AL Central sometimes.

California Sox
01-31-2008, 09:42 PM
I think it would be very unwise to sign CC to Santana-like money. He may deserve it the way he has pitched. However, his continually battle with the bulge will almost inevitably lead to arm problems. He already has had many strange pulled muscle injuries...some including his pitching arm.

You'd think, but look at David Wells. He was huge and pitched forever. Meanwhile Prior's in perfect shape with a great delivery and... I think you never can tell with pitchers.

oeo
01-31-2008, 09:46 PM
So are a lot of guys. By big name, I guess I mean more nationally. Yes, I know that isn't the greatest measure, given national media's fixation on certain teams over others, but I still would stand by my statement that he is not really a "big name" nationally. Would a serious fan know he is the Sox' best pitcher? Yes. Would a casual fan even know him? Not sure. And I would think he's still viewed as a strong No. 2 in most people's eyes, and not an ace, but I really, really don't want to get into that discussion again on these boards.

Nearly every guy in baseball does not meet this criteria. Even a guy like Barry Zito...you think the casual fan heard of him? Sabathia in Cleveland? No way.

There are very few guys that are well known to casual fans of the game. Those are the media darlings; you need to be in Boston or New York to get hyped up like that (or put up insane numbers like A-Rod...but those guys are the exception). That doesn't mean they're any better on the field than the rest of the very good talent in the league.

I agree. MB doesn't have the 'WOW' factor of huge strikeout numbers. And IMO, this keeps him sort of, unknown. He's not huge in fantasy circles or with dopey Kerry Woods type, strike out lovers. And I'm sure GM's and owners are all very enamored with the 'K'.

I don't think he's unknown at all. Fans of the game know who he is. He's a big name to baseball fans...he's been consistently good throughout his career; that gets noticed. Not to mention he's thrown a no-no, pitched in the World Series, and started an All Star Game.

Boondock Saint
01-31-2008, 09:52 PM
Is this due to Eric Wedge's firm crackdown on tilted and straight-brimmed caps? I hear that's what got Ronnie Belliard ticketed out of town.

I'd let CC wear a "Chicago blows" shirt out to the mound every game if it meant he's on my pitching staff.

santo=dorf
01-31-2008, 09:58 PM
So are a lot of guys. By big name, I guess I mean more nationally. Yes, I know that isn't the greatest measure, given national media's fixation on certain teams over others, but I still would stand by my statement that he is not really a "big name" nationally. Would a serious fan know he is the Sox' best pitcher? Yes. Would a casual fan even know him? Not sure. And I would think he's still viewed as a strong No. 2 in most people's eyes, and not an ace, but I really, really don't want to get into that discussion again on these boards.

So if you admit you're not sure if the casual fan would know him, why would you declare he isn't a "big name nationally?"

He's made the all-star team three times, threw a no-hitter last year, and was considered to be one of the biggest targets last July before he signed his new deal. He is a well known name.

Madscout
02-01-2008, 12:27 AM
I like that MB isn't a big name. Bigger name= $$$. I'll take a guy without the strikeouts that still wins as much as MB does versus a big strikeout guy like Zito is projected to be who just puts up that number.

Trav
02-01-2008, 11:24 AM
I'd let CC wear a "Chicago blows" shirt out to the mound every game if it meant he's on my pitching staff.

The Jndians 2007 playoff run is the exact opposite of the Sox 2005 playoff run. He's not someone I want to be paying $15 mil a year or whatever he will get. He is supposed to be an ace and last year was supposed to be his coming out party where he stopped suffering from his head games. Instead, he choked. We'll see if he win 19 games again. My guess is it won't come soon.

batmanZoSo
02-01-2008, 12:41 PM
The Jndians 2007 playoff run is the exact opposite of the Sox 2005 playoff run. He's not someone I want to be paying $15 mil a year or whatever he will get. He is supposed to be an ace and last year was supposed to be his coming out party where he stopped suffering from his head games. Instead, he choked. We'll see if he win 19 games again. My guess is it won't come soon.

So he had a bad game in a possible clincher, big deal. That's a pretty silly reason not to want one of the best lefties in the game.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 12:51 PM
So he had a bad game in a possible clincher, big deal. That's a pretty silly reason not to want one of the best lefties in the game.

I have to come up with a name for the type of people who don't want great players because they "aren't clutch in the playoffs" or whatever. It's just stupid.

batmanZoSo
02-01-2008, 12:58 PM
I have to come up with a name for the type of people who don't want great players because they "aren't clutch in the playoffs" or whatever. It's just stupid.

Stupid might work.

I guess we'd rather have Floyd. We don't know how he'd pitch in the playoffs, but we at least know he won't get us there!

TomBradley72
02-01-2008, 02:16 PM
The chances of the White Sox signing Sabbathia are about the same as offering me a contract. When was the last time (or ever in our history) we signed a premier FA pitcher from another team to a long term/5 yr contract?

It will never happen.

sox1970
02-01-2008, 02:23 PM
He'll be a Dodger.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 03:01 PM
The chances of the White Sox signing Sabbathia are about the same as offering me a contract. When was the last time (or ever in our history) we signed a premier FA pitcher from another team to a long term/5 yr contract?

It will never happen.

It might happen when Reinsdorf's son, Rocky Reinsdorf, takes over.

SOXSINCE'70
02-01-2008, 07:11 PM
Whoever signs "Captain Cheeseburger" to a deal will have to ante up
some big bucks after Johan Santana signed the multi year
$150,000,000.00 deal the Mutts offered him.

SOXSINCE'70
02-01-2008, 07:15 PM
It might happen when Reinsdorf's son, Rocky Reinsdorf, takes over.

Rocky Reinsdorf,where for art thou??:D::D:

turners56
02-01-2008, 08:57 PM
Buehrle?

Given Zito's performance last year, I don't think that is really a factor.

I wasn't talking about anyone specific in general. Zito's deal was BS last year. If he continues to suck like he did last year, that would really speak volumes for how bad recent Free Agent markets have been.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 09:23 PM
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Trav
02-02-2008, 11:30 AM
I have to come up with a name for the type of people who don't want great players because they "aren't clutch in the playoffs" or whatever. It's just stupid.

Last years playoffs was just an example of he has not fixed his mental issues that get in the way of him actually being an ace. I don't think I'd want to spend Ace kind of money on someone who doesn't win the big games.

There was to be name for someone who assumes a Sabathia would replace a Floyd... Any suggestions?

kittle42
02-02-2008, 12:02 PM
Last years playoffs was just an example of he has not fixed his mental issues that get in the way of him actually being an ace. I don't think I'd want to spend Ace kind of money on someone who doesn't win the big games.

Great point! I wouldn't want a Cy Young award winner, either. To hell with getting to the playoffs...it only matters what happens when you get there! Those 19 wins he had during the season were completely meaningless...not ONE was in a big game! Add Alex Rodriguez to this list. Despite possibly being one of the best hitters in ****ing baseball history, he has not fixed the mental problems that keep him from being a big producer in big games - when it counts! I am just not comfortable giving Star money to someone who doesn't win the big games.

There was to be name for someone who assumes a Sabathia would replace a Floyd... Any suggestions?

I assume this is a dig, but have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

Trav
02-02-2008, 02:48 PM
Great point! I wouldn't want a Cy Young award winner, either. To hell with getting to the playoffs...it only matters what happens when you get there! Those 19 wins he had during the season were completely meaningless...not ONE was in a big game! Add Alex Rodriguez to this list. Despite possibly being one of the best hitters in ****ing baseball history, he has not fixed the mental problems that keep him from being a big producer in big games - when it counts! I am just not comfortable giving Star money to someone who doesn't win the big games.



I assume this is a dig, but have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

Sabathia was much like Garland, showed promise but seemed to break down mentally on the mound. Mental midget was a common phrase around WSI. Garland broke out with an incredible 18 win season and pitched will in the playoffs, and then followed that season up with another 18 win season. Sabathia won his 19 games and complete crapped his pants in the playoffs so the jury is still out if he is a legit ace, IMO. I'm not saying he isn't a good pitcher and I'm not saying he will never be great pitcher, but I certainly wouldn't swap him for Burly. I like the fact he piles on complete games, but the chances of him not developing into a great pitcher before his body breaks down is great than other pitchers on the verge of being a legit ace.

And yes, that was a reference to something you earlier said, about being dim witted, ironical enough.

kittle42
02-02-2008, 05:32 PM
Sabathia was much like Garland, showed promise but seemed to break down mentally on the mound. Mental midget was a common phrase around WSI. Garland broke out with an incredible 18 win season and pitched will in the playoffs, and then followed that season up with another 18 win season. Sabathia won his 19 games and complete crapped his pants in the playoffs so the jury is still out if he is a legit ace, IMO. I'm not saying he isn't a good pitcher and I'm not saying he will never be great pitcher, but I certainly wouldn't swap him for Burly. I like the fact he piles on complete games, but the chances of him not developing into a great pitcher before his body breaks down is great than other pitchers on the verge of being a legit ace.

And yes, that was a reference to something you earlier said, about being dim witted, ironical enough.


When was this discussion ever about putting Sabathia on the Sox?

Trav
02-02-2008, 07:09 PM
When was this discussion ever about putting Sabathia on the Sox?

Go back and re-read your posts. You and Batmanzoso mentioned wanting him, as a response to my opinion that he isn't an ace.

kittle42
02-02-2008, 07:41 PM
Go back and re-read your posts. You and Batmanzoso mentioned wanting him, as a response to my opinion that he isn't an ace.

I think any team would be foolish NOT to want Sabathia.

WhiteSox5187
02-02-2008, 07:45 PM
Sabathia was much like Garland, showed promise but seemed to break down mentally on the mound. Mental midget was a common phrase around WSI. Garland broke out with an incredible 18 win season and pitched will in the playoffs, and then followed that season up with another 18 win season. Sabathia won his 19 games and complete crapped his pants in the playoffs so the jury is still out if he is a legit ace, IMO. I'm not saying he isn't a good pitcher and I'm not saying he will never be great pitcher, but I certainly wouldn't swap him for Burly. I like the fact he piles on complete games, but the chances of him not developing into a great pitcher before his body breaks down is great than other pitchers on the verge of being a legit ace.

And yes, that was a reference to something you earlier said, about being dim witted, ironical enough.
Anyone who would take Gavin Floyd over CC Sabathia is a nut. If the Indians came to Kenny and said "Well give you CC for Floyd straight up" he'd do it in a heartbeat.

CC puts up numbers similiar to Buerhle's, now if you want to say that you don't want him on the team because he's going to cost a ton of money, that's a legitimate arguement. But to say "Oh well, he's not an ace because he did poorly in the playoffs" is insane. Think of all the great pitchers that have never played in the playoffs, would we not want them because we don't know how they'll do in the playoffs? That's a kin to a GM passing on Greg Maddux in '92 cuz he got hammered in the '89 NLCS.

CC has only been on a team that has finished above five hundred three times during his career (once as a rookie in '01, where he won 17 games, '05 where he won fifteen and this was after a lousy first half, and again in '07 where he won nineteen)...he might not be a perenial Cy Young Award Winner, but he's a damn good pitcher.

As for the contract arguement, sadly, since Zito, I think that's the way the market is now. A guy who wins fifteen games consistently is going to demand a lot of money.

kittle42
02-02-2008, 08:13 PM
As for the contract arguement, sadly, since Zito, I think that's the way the market is now. A guy who wins fifteen games consistently is going to demand a lot of money.

This is true, which is part of the reason I am tired of hearing about everyone being overpaid.

WhiteSox5187
02-03-2008, 01:41 AM
This is true, which is part of the reason I am tired of hearing about everyone being overpaid.
We love fiscal responsiblity!

kittle42
02-03-2008, 10:19 AM
We love fiscal responsiblity!

I wonder if Sox brass has filled up their gas tanks in the past two years, or whether they're waiting for the market to correct itself.

santo=dorf
02-03-2008, 10:35 AM
I wonder if Sox brass has filled up their gas tanks in the past two years, or whether they're waiting for the market to correct itself.
Mega LOL

I can just picture the chairman and KW riding a Tandem Bike down 35th street.

WhiteSox5187
02-03-2008, 02:48 PM
I wonder if Sox brass has filled up their gas tanks in the past two years, or whether they're waiting for the market to correct itself.
Hahaha...although, in fairness to Kenny and JR they went out and spent about the market price for Linebrink and Dotel, so it's not like they're cheap and they had a very competitive offer for Hunter and Fukodome...the thing that drives me nuts are the people here who say "Ah, thank God we didn't over pay for so and so!"

kittle42
02-03-2008, 03:16 PM
Hahaha...although, in fairness to Kenny and JR they went out and spent about the market price for Linebrink and Dotel, so it's not like they're cheap and they had a very competitive offer for Hunter and Fukodome...the thing that drives me nuts are the people here who say "Ah, thank God we didn't over pay for so and so!"

Agreed on all counts.