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SOX ADDICT '73
01-31-2008, 03:17 AM
With Johan Santana finally out of the division, we can reflect on just how totally and completely he dominated the White Sox over his career. It reached a point where I wouldn't even bother watching a Sox-Twins game if Santana was starting, so certain was I of the outcome.

How much of it do you suppose was psychological? You hear the expression, "he's in their heads", and that was never more true than when our hitters would make their way to the plate to face his devastating changeup. You could practically read their body language - they knew it, we knew it, and you can bet Santana knew that they didn't stand a chance.

I began to wonder how many many other pitchers throughout baseball history have dominated certain ballclubs in this way. Whether they were otherwise average or, like Santana, exceptional pitchers who put up great stats against most of the players they faced, who are the guys that just seemed to "own" a particular team?

santo=dorf
01-31-2008, 06:44 AM
Randy Johnson vs. Cubs: 12-0, 95.2 IP, 65 H, 32 BB, 138 K's, 1.98 ERA, 1.01 WHIP.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4288/splits;_ylt=AjVTiatOCwMUZuv06oy5zj.FCLcF?year=care er&type=Pitching
He also has great numbers against Cincy (only a 3-3 record, but a 1.51 ERA, and .78 WHIP) SD, and FLA

Mike Mussina vs. Twins: 20-6, 3.18 ERA, 1.18 WHIP

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4715/splits;_ylt=AjVTiatOCwMUZuv06oy5zj.FCLcF?year=care er&type=Pitching

Roy Oswalt vs. Reds: 19-1 (happened in 2006) 2.46 ERA, 1.06 WHIP
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6646/splits;_ylt=AjVTiatOCwMUZuv06oy5zj.FCLcF?year=care er&type=Pitching

Freddy Garcia vs. the Angels: 14-3, 2.56 ERA, 1.01 WHIP
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6168/splits;_ylt=AjVTiatOCwMUZuv06oy5zj.FCLcF?year=care er&type=Pitching

goofymsfan
01-31-2008, 07:35 AM
If I recall correctly, the M's never once beat Pedro Martinez.

soxinem1
01-31-2008, 07:47 AM
With Johan Santana finally out of the division, we can reflect on just how totally and completely he dominated the White Sox over his career. It reached a point where I wouldn't even bother watching a Sox-Twins game if Santana was starting, so certain was I of the outcome.

How much of it do you suppose was psychological? You hear the expression, "he's in their heads", and that was never more true than when our hitters would make their way to the plate to face his devastating changeup. You could practically read their body language - they knew it, we knew it, and you can bet Santana knew that they didn't stand a chance.

I began to wonder how many many other pitchers throughout baseball history have dominated certain ballclubs in this way. Whether they were otherwise average or, like Santana, exceptional pitchers who put up great stats against most of the players they faced, who are the guys that just seemed to "own" a particular team?

Regarding Santana, the Sox actually owned him until the last time they beat him in 2003. Though he lost 1-0, he whiffed about 14 and from then on went into that stretch where he was nearly unbeatable, as we had beaten him only twice in the past two seasons.

Now I remember two guys owning the Sox, Mike Boddicker when he first came up w/BAL, and Dave Stieb w/TOR. Especially when Stieb's slider was moving, we couldn't hit him with a broom.

Zisk77
01-31-2008, 08:33 AM
Jimmy Key and Dave Steib against us. Too lazy to look up stats but was Santana-like.

sox1970
01-31-2008, 08:49 AM
Dwight Gooden was 28-4 vs. Cubs

SOXSINCE'70
01-31-2008, 09:12 AM
Jimmy Key and Dave Steib against us.


PLEASE DON'T REMIND ME!!!!:angry:

Can I add the names Jamie Moyer and Paul Byrd??

SOX ADDICT '73
01-31-2008, 09:29 AM
Can I add the names Jamie Moyer and Paul Byrd??
That one has been a total mystery to me. I had barely heard of the guy until he handed the Sox their only loss in the 2005 postseason, and he's had their number ever since. What worse is that, unlike Santana, Byrd doesn't appear to me to have dominant stuff, yet he can make our hitters look really foolish. Some have credited his old-school delivery (he looks like a throwback to the 50s), but whatever it is, I'm tired of it!

Anyone know Sabbathia's career record against the White Sox, and head-to-head vs. Mark Buehrle in particular?

WhiteSox5187
01-31-2008, 09:34 AM
I think the Cubs only beat Greg Maddux once (with the exception of the '03 NLDS game)...though there were years where Maddux owned everyone.

sox1970
01-31-2008, 09:57 AM
Anyone know Sabathia's career record against the White Sox, and head-to-head vs. Mark Buehrle in particular?

Buehrle and Sabathia have faced each other 8 games:

Buehrle: 0-5, 5.14 ERA
Sabathia: 5-0, 2.42 ERA

This is why Vazquez should start opening day, and have Buehrle set up to start the home opener.

skottyj242
01-31-2008, 10:03 AM
Any pitcher making their major league debut or a spot start against the White Sox.

soxfanatlanta
01-31-2008, 10:24 AM
Any pitcher making their major league debut or a spot start against the White Sox.

Sad but true.

kjhanson
01-31-2008, 10:36 AM
PLEASE DON'T REMIND ME!!!!:angry:

Can I add the names Jamie Moyer and Paul Byrd??

Dave Stieb: 21-5 1.92
Jimmy Key: 21-7 2.43
Paul Byrd: 8-2 4.22
Johan Santana: 13-6 3.24 4.65 K:BB

Moyer is only 6-9 with a 4.20 ERA lifetime against the Sox. I've never been afraid to face him.

Sandy Koufax vs. Mets: 17-2 1.44
Greg Maddux vs. Cubs: 12-3 2.56 (2-3 6.35 vs. Sox)

Paulwny
01-31-2008, 12:41 PM
In the late 50's early 60's he was known as "The Yankee Killer", Frank Lary.
He was 28-13 lifetime against the Casey Stengel Yankees and in 58 went 7-0 against them.

Tree Hate Me
01-31-2008, 01:13 PM
I seem to recall Joe Mays always gave the Sox problems too.

FedEx227
01-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Any pitcher making their major league debut or a spot start against the White Sox.

Kason Gabbard

Doug Waechter

All studs.

SBSoxFan
01-31-2008, 01:46 PM
I seem to recall Joe Mays always gave the Sox problems too.

Huh. I always thought his first name was Cy.

kjhanson
01-31-2008, 02:51 PM
Huh. I always thought his first name was Cy.

That was a myth started by the Hawk. Lifetime he's 8-6, 4.86 ERA against us.
Six of those wins came between 1999-2001 when he went 6-0 with an ERA of 2.67 against us. For those three years, he did own us. After that he went 2-6 with a 7.46 ERA.

getonbckthr
01-31-2008, 03:43 PM
Actually it appears if your a junk ball pitcher you own the Sox. If your a power pitcher we do pretty well.

BadBobbyJenks
01-31-2008, 06:48 PM
Actually it appears if your a junk ball pitcher you own the Sox. If your a power pitcher we do pretty well.

Yup. A lineup of nothing but fastball hitters.

I am shocked Paul Byrd's era was that high against us, I can only remember extremely frustrating games against that junker.

JermaineDye05
01-31-2008, 08:18 PM
I believe Bobby Jenks owns the Tigers.

16 saves in 17 chances, the one blown coming this year.

1.44 ERA

33/3 SO/BB in 25 IP

.207 BAA

fquaye149
01-31-2008, 08:42 PM
That one has been a total mystery to me. I had barely heard of the guy until he handed the Sox their only loss in the 2005 postseason, and he's had their number ever since. What worse is that, unlike Santana, Byrd doesn't appear to me to have dominant stuff, yet he can make our hitters look really foolish. Some have credited his old-school delivery (he looks like a throwback to the 50s), but whatever it is, I'm tired of it!

Anyone know Sabbathia's career record against the White Sox, and head-to-head vs. Mark Buehrle in particular?

They were probably overpowered by steroids power

soxfanreggie
01-31-2008, 08:50 PM
Mussina...20-1 vs the Twins. Too bad he will probably be asking for too much when he's a FA after this year. He might have another season or two after this one. I'm not sure too long he'll play. He's a guy that I wouldn't mind signing if the contract is right ($4 or 5 million or so, really depends on how he does this year). He is likely not going to see a sub 4.2 ERA again, but if he can get 10+ wins and a sub 5 ERA, he'd be worth it.

eastchicagosoxfan
01-31-2008, 09:00 PM
Regarding Santana, the Sox actually owned him until the last time they beat him in 2003. Though he lost 1-0, he whiffed about 14 and from then on went into that stretch where he was nearly unbeatable, as we had beaten him only twice in the past two seasons.

Now I remember two guys owning the Sox, Mike Boddicker when he first came up w/BAL, and Dave Stieb w/TOR. Especially when Stieb's slider was moving, we couldn't hit him with a broom.
I thought of Boddicker too. I checked, and he was 12-9 vs the Sox. But it certainly seemed like he owned the Palehose for several years.

soxinem1
01-31-2008, 09:04 PM
I thought of Boddicker too. I checked, and he was 12-9 vs the Sox. But it certainly seemed like he owned the Palehose for several years.

I did say when he first came up. His first three seasons, until Tom Seaver beat him in 1985, he was lights out. Not to mention his 16K performance in Game 2 of the ALCS in 1983 when he probably didn't reach 84 MPH all night.

Some of those losses later were with pathetic BAL, KC, and MIL teams.

TDog
01-31-2008, 09:54 PM
Buehrle and Sabathia have faced each other 8 games:

Buehrle: 0-5, 5.14 ERA
Sabathia: 5-0, 2.42 ERA

This is why Vazquez should start opening day, and have Buehrle set up to start the home opener.

If you believe past determines the future, starting Buehrle in openers against the Indians isn't such a bad idea. Buehrle beat the Indians 1-0 to open the 2005 season. He faced Westbrook, who didn't give up much to the Sox. Buehrle faced Sabathia in the 2006 opener. The White Sox won 10-4. Sabathia came out in the third with an injury after giving up three runs. Buehrle only pitched four innings, probably because of the rain delay (I was working that night, missing the game) and wasn't eligible for the win.

In the 1970s, Paul Splittorff seemed to own the White Sox, but I didn't look up his record.

chaerulez
01-31-2008, 11:25 PM
I don't know if this is a career thing, but Gil Heredia always seemed to have good starts against the Sox.

SOXSINCE'70
02-01-2008, 07:48 AM
I don't know if this is a career thing, but Gil Heredia always seemed to have good starts against the Sox.

So does Gil Meche, to keep it in the "Gil" family.
I remember a friend and I sitting in the Bullpen Sports Bar as
we witnessed a rain shortened Sunday night 6-0 loss to the M's in 2003.
Meche had every Sox hitter he faced that night perplexed.:angry:

Corlose 15
02-01-2008, 12:47 PM
That one has been a total mystery to me. I had barely heard of the guy until he handed the Sox their only loss in the 2005 postseason, and he's had their number ever since. What worse is that, unlike Santana, Byrd doesn't appear to me to have dominant stuff, yet he can make our hitters look really foolish. Some have credited his old-school delivery (he looks like a throwback to the 50s), but whatever it is, I'm tired of it!

Anyone know Sabbathia's career record against the White Sox, and head-to-head vs. Mark Buehrle in particular?

Didn't Byrd start game 5 too and the Sox knocked him out pretty early?

PaleHoser
02-01-2008, 04:16 PM
On the other side of this argument, Sox vs. poor Lenn Sakata. Harry used to love to say his name "SAKATAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH", but he was like 0 for 82 against the Sox in the late 70's early 80's. I felt sorry for him (almost).

Foulke You
02-01-2008, 07:39 PM
That was a myth started by the Hawk. Lifetime he's 8-6, 4.86 ERA against us.
Six of those wins came between 1999-2001 when he went 6-0 with an ERA of 2.67 against us. For those three years, he did own us. After that he went 2-6 with a 7.46 ERA.
It was no myth. As you pointed out, for a 3 year stretch Joe "Cy" Mays owned us. The reason we started hitting him later on was that our lineup received a jolt of new faces like AJ, Pods, Iguchi etc. I remember Carlos Lee and Maggs having tons of God awful ABs against Mays. It was maddening too because the rest of the league would pound on Mays during that time. It was inexplicable why the guy gave us so much trouble as his stuff wasn't great and his delivery was pretty ordinary. His career #s against us don't tell the whole story.

Vestigio
02-01-2008, 09:35 PM
Any pitcher making their major league debut or a spot start against the White Sox.

Ervin Santana threw a one hitter in his ML debut against the Sox

SOX ADDICT '73
02-01-2008, 11:16 PM
Didn't Byrd start game 5 too and the Sox knocked him out pretty early?
Officially, his line was 4.2 IP with 5 hits and only two runs, but Scioscia pulled him with runners on 2nd & 3rd. Scot Shields got Paulie to fly out to end the 5th inning, or Byrd's numbers could have been a lot worse.

Since then, he has mystified our hitters, including going 3-0 in four starts last season for Cleveland, with an ERA of 2.30 in 27.1 IP.

sox1970
02-01-2008, 11:19 PM
Ervin Santana threw a five hitter in his ML debut against the Sox

Fixed it.

It was his second game too. Cleveland lit him up in his debut.

Vestigio
02-02-2008, 11:32 AM
My mistake, I could of sworn it was his debut

LITTLE NELL
02-02-2008, 06:17 PM
The Sox had a lot of trouble beating Jack Morris and Dan Petry of the Tigers.