PDA

View Full Version : Time to make a bid for Bedard and Roberts NOW


kruzer31
01-29-2008, 05:08 PM
With Johan leaving the AL and the Eric Bedard trade falling apart to SEA because Adam Jones has a Bo Jackson Hip its time for the Sox to make the last move of the season and get Bedard and Roberts. Solidifies second and adds a stud to the rotation.

We give them Joe Crede, Jon Danks, and Richar

We Get Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts

We now have our leadoff hitter and Cabrerra is great in the 2 hole

2B B.Roberts
SS O. Cabrerra
RF J.Dye
DH J.Thome
1B Paul Konerko
CF N. Swisher
3B J.Fields
C A.J. Pierzynski
LF C.Quentin

Buerhrle, Vasquez, Bedard, Contreras, Floyd.

Looks like a contender to me

Jeff

SoxNation05
01-29-2008, 05:09 PM
Is this clown serious?

Jjav829
01-29-2008, 05:09 PM
With Johan leaving the AL and the Eric Bedard trade falling apart to SEA because Adam Jones has a Bo Jackson Hip its time for the Sox to make the last move of the season and get Bedard and Roberts. Solidifies second and adds a stud to the rotation.

We give them Joe Crede, Jon Danks, and Richar

We Get Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts


And the Orioles are going to trade us Roberts and Bedard for Crede, Danks and Richar....why? :?:

hi im skot
01-29-2008, 05:11 PM
:rolling::rolling::rolling:

getonbckthr
01-29-2008, 05:12 PM
I do think Bedard's value will be down with the package Minnesota just got for Johan but I would seriously question whether that package would get just Bedard?

Sargeant79
01-29-2008, 05:12 PM
It would be a stretch to expect Brian Roberts by himself for Crede, Danks, and Richar.

What is it with everyone thinking we can unload our junk on other teams in exchange for stars today?

getonbckthr
01-29-2008, 05:13 PM
It would be a stretch to expect Brian Roberts by himself for Crede, Danks, and Richar.

What is it with everyone thinking we can unload our junk on other teams in exchange for stars today?
I would think that package could get Roberts but not Bedard.

sox1970
01-29-2008, 05:16 PM
It's not going to happen for either, but start with Danks, Richar, Masset, Egbert, and John Shelby, then go from there.

btrain929
01-29-2008, 05:19 PM
Is this clown serious?

My thoughts exactly. If we still had Gio/DLS, we'd have a shot at Bedard. Now it's either Roberts (MAYBE), or nothing.

FedEx227
01-29-2008, 05:28 PM
Seriously dude, as a fan of the friggin team can you at least spell their names right.

Cabrerra?

Vasquez?

Seriously.

Oh and your thread is stupid too, we have a 2B.

rdivaldi
01-29-2008, 05:30 PM
It would be a stretch to expect Brian Roberts by himself for Crede, Danks, and Richar.

What is it with everyone thinking we can unload our junk on other teams in exchange for stars today?

While I agree that it's a stretch to think those three will land us Bedard, it's equally silly to call any of those three players "junk". Crede is a proven major leaguer, Danks is a promising young pitcher who was a top prospect and Richar was a top prospect for Arizona.

pdimas
01-29-2008, 05:38 PM
Seriously dude, as a fan of the friggin team can you at least spell their names right.

Cabrerra?

Vasquez?

Seriously.

Oh and your thread is stupid too, we have a 2B.

I thought 2b was to be an open competition with Uribe, Richar, Ozuna and Ramirez at ST?

getonbckthr
01-29-2008, 05:41 PM
While I agree that it's a stretch to think those three will land us Bedard, it's equally silly to call any of those three players "junk". Crede is a proven major leaguer, Danks is a promising young pitcher who was a top prospect and Richar was a top prospect for Arizona.
Crede also has a bad back and in a walk year. Danks is promising. Richar is a top prospect. So 2 promising prospects/stars and a guy who has the talent but health is a HUGE ?.

Cuck the Fubs
01-29-2008, 05:41 PM
Crede & Danks..........junk?!?!?! :?:

You have to be kidding right......................

Wow.......just wow

kruzer31
01-29-2008, 05:48 PM
Seriously dude, as a fan of the friggin team can you at least spell their names right.

Cabrerra?

Vasquez?

Seriously.

Oh and your thread is stupid too, we have a 2B.


You got the point didnt you? Its just a thread of opinion, if you feel like bashing someone so be it. Im a season ticket holder since 1991 and trust me, I know what I am talking about. Maybe that package would not be enough, just would be nice to get a solid second basemen and Bedard. Enjoy your day pal.

kruzer31
01-29-2008, 05:49 PM
Is this clown serious?


Clown? How nice of you. What are you 12?


Jeff

EMachine10
01-29-2008, 05:49 PM
Oh and your thread is stupid too, we have a 2B.

I agree that this proposal doesn't hold much water, but I wouldn't go that far. There should be (or at least there better be) open competition for 2b in ST. I like Richar and I think he can do well, but you can't write his name in pen yet.

SoxNation05
01-29-2008, 05:51 PM
Clown? How nice of you. What are you 12?


Jeff
Well if I said would I wanted to say I would be banned for at least a month.

EMachine10
01-29-2008, 05:51 PM
And, if you don't like the proposal, I see no reason why you have to jump all over someone for bringing it up. Along the lines of if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Just move on to the next thread. There's no rule that you have to reply in every thread.

Let's keep it frosty, guys.

FedEx227
01-29-2008, 05:56 PM
You got the point didnt you? Its just a thread of opinion, if you feel like bashing someone so be it. Im a season ticket holder since 1991 and trust me, I know what I am talking about. Maybe that package would not be enough, just would be nice to get a solid second basemen and Bedard. Enjoy your day pal.

Wonderful, that doesn't excuse the spelling of our players names wrong. You'd probably be upset too if everyone day someone spelled your name wrong despite claiming to know better.

I still think despite an open competition Richar will hold onto it. Ramirez is jumping from one world to another and will not be ready, Uribe I hope would get reduced points just for the fact we've seen what he can do. I'm all for competition because that'll cause guys to really step it up but Richar will likely will said competition, as he should.

soxfan21
01-29-2008, 06:00 PM
So who do you guys think we could get between Roberts/Bedard if we through Anderson, Crede, Uribe, and Danks/Floyd in the mix? Just wondering if this compilation of players could possibly get either Roberts, Bedard, or possibly both.

WhiteSox5187
01-29-2008, 06:03 PM
Well, my initial reaction is "That's not going to work." But then I remembered that Peter Angelos is the owner of the Orioles and attempting to figure out what is running through his mind is a futile task...couldn't hurt to ask though, but I'm fairly sure Kenny has offered this trade.

Sargeant79
01-29-2008, 06:03 PM
Crede & Danks..........junk?!?!?! :?:

You have to be kidding right......................

Wow.......just wow

My initial response had less to do with the Sox players in question in the original post and more to do with everyone seeming to overvalue our own players around here lately.

To clarify - I think Danks is going to prove to be an excellent major league starter and he might surprise a lot of people next year...he is hands down our best pitching prospect, although he has too much service time to technically be considered a prospect.

I also think that Richar will likely be our starting second baseman and I think he may also surprise a lot of people. But I also think he is not viewed as favorably nationally as many of us here would like to think.

Crede is arguably a great player, but due to his health issues and contract status he has very little trade value. I will be pleasantly amazed if we move him for anything more than a relief pitcher or a couple of B-level prospects.

Those three might be a package that would get Brian Roberts. No way that is anywhere near enough to land Bedard.

kruzer31
01-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Listen, the point of the thread is it would be wise for KW to at least look into the possibility of what it might take to get Bedard and Roberts. Crede, Danks, and Richar could be the main three guys KW starts off with. My whole point is just having the Sox contact the O's and see what is up. I always come in peace and always talk casually about the Sox. I have been around since 2002 and dont post much because our high school posters seem to know everything there is about baseball. I have seen good teams, Ive seen bad teams, I have seen Richie Zisk, Julio Cruz, Greg Luzinski, Darryl Boston, Joe Cowley, Danny Tartabull, Lyle Mouton, and others since I have been die hard since the late 70s. Don't question my knowledge because I misplace a couple letters in peoples names. If you want to talk baseball, come see me in section 163. Im there for at least 60 games a year since 1991. Take care everyone, and remember it was just an opinionated topic to mention the Sox should take a look at these two players. Some of you need to chill out.

Jeff

spiffie
01-29-2008, 06:05 PM
So who do you guys think we could get between Roberts/Bedard if we through Anderson, Crede, Uribe, and Danks/Floyd in the mix? Just wondering if this compilation of players could possibly get either Roberts, Bedard, or possibly both.
We could get an autographed Bedard jersey for that.

The problem is we got rid of all our prospects who have value. Our best prospect can't be traded right now. You want in on Bedard/Roberts you think about Fields, Egbert, Danks, Silviero, and Richar. That gets the O's to pick up the phone. You probably add in another 2 top prospects to get them to consider the deal. Uribe is worthless in terms of trade value. Crede is at best a small piece if he is healthy. Anderson is worthless. Danks has some value, but last year likely sapped some of it.

And to all those saying "KW should ask about Bedard"...he basically said as much at Soxfest as he could without getting accused of tampering. I have no doubt Kenny has called Baltimore and said "what would it take to get Bedard" and the answer was unacceptable or did not exist.

sullythered
01-29-2008, 06:06 PM
We give them Joe Crede, Jon Danks, and Richar

We Get Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts

Not unless John Danks gets hit with Gamma rays, and Danny Richar gets bit by a radioactive spider...

WhiteSox5187
01-29-2008, 06:06 PM
Listen, the point of the thread is it would be wise for KW to at least look into the possibility of what it might take to get Bedard and Roberts. Crede, Danks, and Richar could be the main three guys KW starts off with. My whole point is just having the Sox contact the O's and see what is up. I always come in peace and always talk casually about the Sox. I have been around since 2002 and dont post much because our high school posters seem to know everything there is about baseball. I have seen good teams, Ive seen bad teams, I have seen Richie Zisk, Julio Cruz, Greg Luzinski, Darryl Boston, Joe Cowley, Danny Tartabull, Lyle Mouton, and others since I have been die hard since the late 70s. Don't question my knowledge because I misplace a couple letters in peoples names. If you want to talk baseball, come see me in section 163. Im there for at least 60 games a year since 1991. Take care everyone, and remember it was just an opinionated topic to mention the Sox should take a look at these two players. Some of you need to chill out.

Jeff
I think we can all agree that KW should certainly inquire at least about those guys, but I'm 99.999999% sure he has.

pjchisox13
01-29-2008, 06:06 PM
Well, my initial reaction is "That's not going to work." But then I remembered that Peter Angelos is the owner of the Orioles and attempting to figure out what is running through his mind is a futile task...couldn't hurt to ask though, but I'm fairly sure Kenny has offered this trade.
Amen to that.....

kruzer31
01-29-2008, 06:07 PM
Wonderful, that doesn't excuse the spelling of our players names wrong. You'd probably be upset too if everyone day someone spelled your name wrong despite claiming to know better.

I still think despite an open competition Richar will hold onto it. Ramirez is jumping from one world to another and will not be ready, Uribe I hope would get reduced points just for the fact we've seen what he can do. I'm all for competition because that'll cause guys to really step it up but Richar will likely will said competition, as he should.

Did you mean every day? Or everyone day someone spelled your name wrong.....

sullythered
01-29-2008, 06:15 PM
Did you mean every day? Or everyone day someone spelled your name wrong.....
If we're getting in a grammar war, ellipsis are only three periods...:tongue:

Edit: And I should have said "an ellipsis is," not "ellipsis are."

batmanZoSo
01-29-2008, 06:19 PM
I think I'm getting a text, BRB.

pdimas
01-29-2008, 06:26 PM
Wonderful, that doesn't excuse the spelling of our players names wrong. You'd probably be upset too if everyone day someone spelled your name wrong despite claiming to know better.



And the Orioles are going to trade us Roberts and Bedard for Crede, Danks and Richar....why? :?:


Daaaaaammmmnnnn he just called you out Jjav........

FedEx227
01-29-2008, 06:35 PM
Daaaaaammmmnnnn he just called you out Jjav........

Oh yes!

Me/Kittle/Santo=dorf vs. any and all comers.

BRING IT ON!!!

oeo
01-29-2008, 06:41 PM
Listen, the point of the thread is it would be wise for KW to at least look into the possibility of what it might take to get Bedard and Roberts. Crede, Danks, and Richar could be the main three guys KW starts off with. My whole point is just having the Sox contact the O's and see what is up. I always come in peace and always talk casually about the Sox. I have been around since 2002 and dont post much because our high school posters seem to know everything there is about baseball. I have seen good teams, Ive seen bad teams, I have seen Richie Zisk, Julio Cruz, Greg Luzinski, Darryl Boston, Joe Cowley, Danny Tartabull, Lyle Mouton, and others since I have been die hard since the late 70s. Don't question my knowledge because I misplace a couple letters in peoples names. If you want to talk baseball, come see me in section 163. Im there for at least 60 games a year since 1991. Take care everyone, and remember it was just an opinionated topic to mention the Sox should take a look at these two players. Some of you need to chill out.

Jeff

I think Kenny probably has checked on Bedard, and he probably will look again. After emptying what we had left for Swisher, chances are there's no way we would be able to pull it off, though.

And I want nothing to do with Roberts. Something tells me he's just going fall flat on his face.

btrain929
01-29-2008, 06:43 PM
I think we can all agree that KW should certainly inquire at least about those guys, but I'm 99.999999% sure he has.

Thank you.

santo=dorf
01-29-2008, 07:08 PM
With Johan leaving the AL and the Eric Bedard trade falling apart to SEA because Adam Jones has a Bo Jackson Hip its time for the Sox to make the last move of the season and get Bedard and Roberts. Solidifies second and adds a stud to the rotation.

We give them Joe Crede, Jon Danks, and Richar

We Get Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts

We now have our leadoff hitter and Cabrerra is great in the 2 hole

2B B.Roberts
SS O. Cabrerra
RF J.Dye
DH J.Thome
1B Paul Konerko
CF N. Swisher
3B J.Fields
C A.J. Pierzynski
LF C.Quentin

Buerhrle, Vasquez, Bedard, Contreras, Floyd.

Looks like a contender to me

Jeff
:threadsucks

Any new info from your cousin that knows Billy Beane? :rolleyes:
Oh yes!

Me/Kittle/Santo=dorf vs. any and all comers.

BRING IT ON!!!
Ha. I actually made my post before seeing this one. :)

guillen4life13
01-29-2008, 07:24 PM
We could get an autographed Bedard jersey for that.

The problem is we got rid of all our prospects who have value. Our best prospect can't be traded right now. You want in on Bedard/Roberts you think about Fields, Egbert, Danks, Silviero, and Richar. That gets the O's to pick up the phone. You probably add in another 2 top prospects to get them to consider the deal. Uribe is worthless in terms of trade value. Crede is at best a small piece if he is healthy. Anderson is worthless. Danks has some value, but last year likely sapped some of it.

And to all those saying "KW should ask about Bedard"...he basically said as much at Soxfest as he could without getting accused of tampering. I have no doubt Kenny has called Baltimore and said "what would it take to get Bedard" and the answer was unacceptable or did not exist.

I think you're heavily undervaluing some of our players. Fields and Richar alone should get Roberts--and IMHO Fields alone is more valuable than Roberts at this stage of his career. He's shown he can hit ML pitching, is 25 and doesn't have a huge price tag, and plays adequate 3B. Roberts is in his 30's, has a much higher salary, and has PED suspicions surrounding him all over the place. Silverio is a 16 year old top SS prospect, and Egbert is considered our #1 prospect right now.

I have to think that, since the steroid story about Roberts came out, his value has to have decreased significantly.

Jjav829
01-29-2008, 07:27 PM
Daaaaaammmmnnnn he just called you out Jjav........

No idea what you're talking about. :whistle: :whistle:

And for the record, it was a typo. I can spell Mientkiewicz without even looking it up, so don't think Richar is hard for me to remember. I do apparently have trouble spelling "Shane" Victorino, though, if you ask the people in my fantasy league. :smile:

turners56
01-29-2008, 07:29 PM
With Johan leaving the AL and the Eric Bedard trade falling apart to SEA because Adam Jones has a Bo Jackson Hip its time for the Sox to make the last move of the season and get Bedard and Roberts. Solidifies second and adds a stud to the rotation.

We give them Joe Crede, Jon Danks, and Richar

We Get Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts

We now have our leadoff hitter and Cabrerra is great in the 2 hole

2B B.Roberts
SS O. Cabrerra
RF J.Dye
DH J.Thome
1B Paul Konerko
CF N. Swisher
3B J.Fields
C A.J. Pierzynski
LF C.Quentin

Buerhrle, Vasquez, Bedard, Contreras, Floyd.

Looks like a contender to me

Jeff

Our Garbage for their more valuable garbage because they can't afford the garbage sticker, I don't think so.
TBH, if we somehow got that deal (barring a miracle blessed from the baseball gods), the White Sox might be favorites in the Central, right next to Detroit.

btrain929
01-29-2008, 07:32 PM
We could get an autographed Bedard jersey for that.

The problem is we got rid of all our prospects who have value. Our best prospect can't be traded right now. You want in on Bedard/Roberts you think about Fields, Egbert, Danks, Silviero, and Richar. That gets the O's to pick up the phone. You probably add in another 2 top prospects to get them to consider the deal. Uribe is worthless in terms of trade value. Crede is at best a small piece if he is healthy. Anderson is worthless. Danks has some value, but last year likely sapped some of it.

And to all those saying "KW should ask about Bedard"...he basically said as much at Soxfest as he could without getting accused of tampering. I have no doubt Kenny has called Baltimore and said "what would it take to get Bedard" and the answer was unacceptable or did not exist.

I agree we'll have to pay out of our ass to get one and/or both of them, but for the Orioles in particular, I think Uribe would be of value to them. They just traded Tejada, and have some 23 year old slotted for SS. I'm sure he could use another year in AAA, and that's possible since Uribe is only on a 1 yr contract. That's why I was thinking of a package of Uribe/Richar plus 2 arms for Roberts as possibly feasible for them. But I also agree that all of this is 99% sure not to happen, so, whatever... :D:

Dice
01-29-2008, 07:44 PM
With Johan leaving the AL and the Eric Bedard trade falling apart to SEA because Adam Jones has a Bo Jackson Hip its time for the Sox to make the last move of the season and get Bedard and Roberts. Solidifies second and adds a stud to the rotation.

We give them Joe Crede, Jon Danks, and Richar

We Get Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts

We now have our leadoff hitter and Cabrerra is great in the 2 hole

2B B.Roberts
SS O. Cabrerra
RF J.Dye
DH J.Thome
1B Paul Konerko
CF N. Swisher
3B J.Fields
C A.J. Pierzynski
LF C.Quentin

Buerhrle, Vasquez, Bedard, Contreras, Floyd.

Looks like a contender to me

Jeff

If Baltimore is stupid enough to make this trade to us then Andy Mc"Fail" needs to be fired and Williams should be the pre-season favorite for GM of the Year.

However, I don't think Mc"Fail" is crazy. Maybe an idiot BUT not crazy.

In a White Sox "dream world", this would fly

gogosox16
01-29-2008, 08:37 PM
I think you're heavily undervaluing some of our players. Fields and Richar alone should get Roberts--and IMHO Fields alone is more valuable than Roberts at this stage of his career. He's shown he can hit ML pitching, is 25 and doesn't have a huge price tag, and plays adequate 3B. Roberts is in his 30's, has a much higher salary, and has PED suspicions surrounding him all over the place. Silverio is a 16 year old top SS prospect, and Egbert is considered our #1 prospect right now.

I have to think that, since the steroid story about Roberts came out, his value has to have decreased significantly.
That is sad when this guy just really came on the radar strong for the Sox in the last year to year and a half.

WhiteSox5187
01-29-2008, 09:06 PM
If Baltimore is stupid enough to make this trade to us then Andy Mc"Fail" needs to be fired and Williams should be the pre-season favorite for GM of the Year.

However, I don't think Mc"Fail" is crazy. Maybe an idiot BUT not crazy.

In a White Sox "dream world", this would fly
Any deal with the Orioles hinges more upon Angelos than McPhail, we could make an offer that he hates but if Angelo likes it, it will get done.

Flight #24
01-29-2008, 09:10 PM
Honestly, I'd offer up Fields, Richar, their choice of Danks/Floyd, and any other prospect they want for Bedard & Roberts. Hell, I might even go as far as Danks+Floyd, then you make a push to sign a Kris Benson type to compete with Broadway, Egbert, Haeger for the #5. They can also have Owens and MacDougal if they'd like.

Roberts-Swisher-Thome-Konerko-Dye-AJ-Crede-Quentin-Cabrera is a hell of a lineup. And a rotation of Bedard-Buehrle-Vazquez-Contreras-#5 (see above) is pretty damn good too. That team competes with anyone, and can do so for the next couple years which buys time to restock the farm. The bullpen is solid and the bench with Hall, Ozuna, Anderson, Ramirez would be excellent.

I'm not sure if they'd do it, but that's got to be at least an interesting package. A solid young SP (Danks), a young stud hitter (Fields), and another IF with a ton of talent (Richar), plus some interesting guys in Floyd, Owens - that could rebuild them in a hurry.

EDIT: Payroll-wise, Bedard & Roberts add ~$11M in 08 and ~$15 in 09. So there's your Torii Hunter $$$, well spent. And you'd be resigning Bedard (or having his extension kick in) when Contreras' deal expires, which works perfectly. The only catch is that you'd have to rely on a Crede/Uribe 3B situation, and/or have to resign Joe for beyond '08 (or find a replacement).

Gammons Peter
01-29-2008, 09:20 PM
They can keep Roberts, I want Bedard. They were close to giving him away for Adam Jones. Why couldn't we offer up Fields, Danks, Floyd and Brian Anderson? That's a great haul for the O's. That's better than what the Twinks just got for Santana. We can call up Broadway/Russell/Egbert/Hager or sign Colon to be our 5.

Gammons Peter
01-29-2008, 09:29 PM
and if thats not enough, throw in another of our "top prospects" I don't care, empty what's left of the farm, we're in win now mode and Bedard can make that possible

Tragg
01-29-2008, 09:33 PM
Crede also has a bad back and in a walk year. Danks is promising. Richar is a top prospect. So 2 promising prospects/stars and a guy who has the talent but health is a HUGE ?.
Well, how many top prospects were in Seattle's offer? IN know their guy is like the top prospect in the universe, but these guys aren't traded around much.
Bedard's really good.. The Sox traded a lot of pitching this offseason.

ON a side note, Roberts is a .350 OBP (inconsistent - sometimes 370+ and sometimes 340-) and 10-12 HR a year guy. I guess it's the steals that get everyone excited. On the other hand, their's roids.

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 09:38 PM
When has Danny Richar ever been considered a "top prospect"? And by who? He's one of the Sox "best" prospects, but that doesn't say much.

the1tab
01-29-2008, 09:40 PM
Peter Angelos ain't Santa Claus. Forget Bedard and his doping little smurf friend, Roberts.

We need a mid rotation starter and someone to eat Contreras' and Uribe's contracts. Let's focus on something realistic...

Here's a couple names: Ryan Madsen and Brett Myers in Philly. Madsen was disappointing down the stretch last year but has some good stuff and is young. I know I just recounted the scouting report on Gavin Floyd, but that might make him available, and I like his upside a lot more than Floyd's. Myers has good stuff and his wifebeating incident last year might make him available. Even though the Phils just signed Pedro Feliz to play 3B, we've done business w/ them in the past and they have an aweful bench that would be strengthened by adding Uribe and they might actually take Jose. with the Mets geting Johan, and the Phils being in a position to compete, they might be willing to talk. Tom Gordon would look great in our bullpen, too... and if he still wants to close he's probably not happy w/ the Lidge deal. Gordon, Linebrink and Dotel in front of Jenks? THAT'S a bullpen.

Thoughts?

Flight #24
01-29-2008, 09:42 PM
That's 2 top prospects plus a veteran in a walk year.
How many top prospects were in Seattle's offer?

It has to start with Fields+Danks, and add some more solid talent. But I'd do it. You have Crede, and Bedard & Roberts are young & good enough (and both under control through 2009), that you can rely on them for a while.

2 years from now, you'd have a core of 2B-Roberts (32 at that point), 1B-Konerko (33), RF-Quentin(27), LF-Swisher(29), CF/SS-Ramirez(28) with the rotation headed by Bedard(30), Buehrle(30), Vazquez(33) with Poreda/Egbert/Russell in the wings. You'd also hopefully have this year's draft pick along with the 2 you'd get for letting Cabrera walk.

That's a decent way to compete in the short term and add you good young players to extend the window.

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 09:44 PM
Peter Angelos ain't Santa Claus. Forget Bedard and his doping little smurf friend, Roberts.

We need a mid rotation starter and someone to eat Contreras' and Uribe's contracts. Let's focus on something realistic...

Here's a couple names: Ryan Madsen and Brett Myers in Philly. Madsen was disappointing down the stretch last year but has some good stuff and is young. I know I just recounted the scouting report on Gavin Floyd, but that might make him available, and I like his upside a lot more than Floyd's. Myers has good stuff and his wifebeating incident last year might make him available. Even though the Phils just signed Pedro Feliz to play 3B, we've done business w/ them in the past and they have an aweful bench that would be strengthened by adding Uribe and they might actually take Jose. with the Mets geting Johan, and the Phils being in a position to compete, they might be willing to talk. Tom Gordon would look great in our bullpen, too... and if he still wants to close he's probably not happy w/ the Lidge deal. Gordon, Linebrink and Dotel in front of Jenks? THAT'S a bullpen.

Thoughts?

Brett Myers is moving back to the rotation and is much better than Contreras. I highly doubt they'd be interested in dealing him for Contreras.

the1tab
01-29-2008, 09:46 PM
Brett Myers is moving back to the rotation and is much better than Contreras. I highly doubt they'd be interested in dealing him for Contreras.

I didn't say straight up. But I could see him being available, and we could package something for him...

btrain929
01-29-2008, 09:49 PM
They can keep Roberts, I want Bedard. They were close to giving him away for Adam Jones. Why couldn't we offer up Fields, Danks, Floyd and Brian Anderson? That's a great haul for the O's. That's better than what the Twinks just got for Santana. We can call up Broadway/Russell/Egbert/Hager or sign Colon to be our 5.

Then who's our 3B if Crede doesn't return to 100% or goes the free agent route after '08?

Remember, Bedard is a free agent after '09. I don't know how I'd feel about mortaging the farm for someone who can hit free agency to get paid. Then we're looking at losing Bedard, Crede, Fields, Danks, Floyd, and having nothing to show for it.

Again, if we still had Gio and DLS, I think we'd be able to put together a great package and not hurt the '08 team too much. But as of right now, we can only possibly trade for another #4-5 starter depending on Crede's health and what else is packaged with him.

Tragg
01-29-2008, 09:49 PM
It has to start with Fields+Danks, and add some more solid talent. But I'd do it. You have Crede, and Bedard & Roberts are young & good enough (and both under control through 2009), that you can rely on them for a while.

2 years from now, you'd have a core of 2B-Roberts (32 at that point), 1B-Konerko (33), RF-Quentin(27), LF-Swisher(29), CF/SS-Ramirez(28) with the rotation headed by Bedard(30), Buehrle(30), Vazquez(33) with Poreda/Egbert/Russell in the wings. You'd also hopefully have this year's draft pick along with the 2 you'd get for letting Cabrera walk.

That's a decent way to compete in the short term and add you good young players to extend the window.

I just wonder what Seattle's offer was - it was okay per the GM, but rejected by Angelos. It would start with Fields - that's who everyone wants. And then add Danks and Floyd and probably 3-4 other reasonably regarded prospect.
2009 means that this time next year they are in a walk year - that's not that long. I'd hate to lose Fields. YOur scenario requires us to sign Crede - okay by me, but I don't see that happening. We'll need a SS next year.
I'd consider signing one of those veteran starters as a FA right now, whether or not we make the trade - we're awfully thin in the rotation, but I'd hate to give up real talent by trading for a fifth starter (like Lowry) - so sign one and put the loser of him/danks/floyd in the pen.
I'd also like to trade some of the Sox' excess - this would be considered "junk" by most, and perhaps it is;

As for Richar per a different comment, well considering the Sox gave up a top prospect for him, I think it's reasonable to consider what we got in return a top prospect. Or maybe not.

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 09:52 PM
I didn't say straight up. But I could see him being available, and we could package something for him...

Moving Myers for something centered around Contreras makes them a worse team.

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 09:55 PM
I just wonder what Seattle's offer was - it was okay per the GM, but rejected by Angelos.
2009 means that this time next year they are in a walk year - that's not that long. I'd hate to lose Fields. YOur scenario requires us to sign Crede - don't see that happening either.

As for Richar per a different comment, well considering the Sox gave up a top prospect for him, I think it's reasonable to consider what we got in return a top prospect. Or maybe not.

What do you consider a "top prospect"? If we are considering Cunningham and Richar "top prospects" then there are about 200 "top prospects" in MLB.

Flight #24
01-29-2008, 09:55 PM
I just wonder what Seattle's offer was - it was okay per the GM, but rejected by Angelos.
2009 means that this time next year they are in a walk year - that's not that long. I'd hate to lose Fields. YOur scenario requires us to sign Crede - don't see that happening either.

As for Richar per a different comment, well considering the Sox gave up a top prospect for him, I think it's reasonable to consider what we got in return a top prospect. Or maybe not.

Baltimore isn't in position to really spend the $$$ to keep him, the Sox are in a completely different position, and will be a much more attractive place for him to stay because the team will be a very very good one. Crede is a good point, but if you can't resign him, can you go get a guy like Feliz or another stopgap (or if you do well enough to expand payroll further, actually resign the guy).

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 10:01 PM
Baltimore isn't in position to really spend the $$$ to keep him, the Sox are in a completely different position, and will be a much more attractive place for him to stay because the team will be a very very good one. Crede is a good point, but if you can't resign him, can you go get a guy like Feliz or another stopgap (or if you do well enough to expand payroll further, actually resign the guy).

It really doesn't matter who you get a 3B, IMO. We don't need another player like Crede. We have a ton of power already locked up for a couple season in Swisher, Pauly, Thome, and Dye with Quentin possibly adding to the list. What we don't have is a leadoff hitter. Roberts adds that and makes the offense better. I think we're a much better team with Roberts leading off and Inge-like production from 3B than Crede at 3B and Richar at 2B.

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 10:04 PM
Another option that you have with Bedard, is that assuming he is similarly productive in 2008, you can move him for a similar package the Twins just got for Santana if it doesn't appear we'll be very competitive in 2009. That's fine with me. You give it a run in 2008, if it doesn't work out, it's probably time to start reloading anyways, as we're going to lose a number of different players after 2009.

Tragg
01-29-2008, 10:42 PM
[quote=sircaffey1;1782804]Another option that you have with Bedard, is that assuming he is similarly productive in 2008, you can move him for a similar package the Twins just got for Santana if it doesn't appear we'll be very competitive in 2009. quote]
That makes sense, but it never works for the Sox.

Tragg
01-29-2008, 10:45 PM
It really doesn't matter who you get a 3B, IMO. We don't need another player like Crede. We have a ton of power already locked up for a couple season in Swisher, Pauly, Thome, and Dye with Quentin possibly adding to the list. What we don't have is a leadoff hitter. Roberts adds that and makes the offense better. I think we're a much better team with Roberts leading off and Inge-like production from 3B than Crede at 3B and Richar at 2B.
Perhaps we don't need another hitter like Crede - but we don't have an abundance of players like Crede, i.e. fielders, like Crede.
Swisher's not really a power hitter. 20-25 I'd think. He's more of an OBP guy. (that's what we need)
Richar's going to hit 15-20 if he's left out there - the question is can he get his obp up. I hope he's given a chance and not jerked around - but I'm not holding my breath considering there's a swing at everything veteran right there to take his spot. Please, Kenny, get Uribe off this team.
I hear you on Cunningham not being a top prospect. But it's not like Seattle offered Baltimore multiple top prospects (by your definition) either.

sircaffey1
01-29-2008, 11:05 PM
Perhaps we don't need another hitter like Crede - but we don't have an abundance of players like Crede, i.e. fielders, like Crede.
Swisher's not really a power hitter. 20-25 I'd think. He's more of an OBP guy. (that's what we need)
Richar's going to hit 15-20 if he's left out there - the question is can he get his obp up. I hope he's given a chance and not jerked around - but I'm not holding my breath considering there's a swing at everything veteran right there to take his spot. Please, Kenny, get Uribe off this team.
I hear you on Cunningham not being a top prospect. But it's not like Seattle offered Baltimore multiple top prospects (by your definition) either.

Swisher hit 35 HR in Oakland 2 seasons ago. I have little doubt he'll be over 30 at the Cell.

kittle42
01-29-2008, 11:22 PM
When I ever start to think Sox fans are "baseball smarter" than those of other teams, I have a few threads I go back to in order to bring myself back down to earth. This will be another one.

batmanZoSo
01-29-2008, 11:27 PM
^ I like how Snrub thinks.

gr8mexico
01-30-2008, 12:05 AM
I think the Sox still have the players to make this move. But the trade would have to include Danks and Fields. Maybe John Danks, Josh Fields, Carlos Quentin, Danny Richar, Mike MacDougal, Nick Masset. You would have to give Brian Anderson a try again at CF.

kittle42
01-30-2008, 12:09 AM
I think the Sox still have the players to make this move. But the trade would have to include Danks and Fields. Maybe John Danks, Josh Fields, Carlos Quentin, Danny Richar, Mike MacDougal, Nick Masset. You would have to give Brian Anderson a try again at CF.

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Also, as an FYI to many around here, I'd guess that NO ONE WANTS NICK MASSET.

gr8mexico
01-30-2008, 12:13 AM
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Also, as an FYI to many around here, I'd guess that NO ONE WANTS NICK MASSET.
I dont think is that nobody wants him. There is just no room for him. The pen is almost full and he's out of options.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 12:18 AM
I dont think is that nobody wants him. There is just no room for him. The pen is almost full and he's out of options.

Someone will undoubtedly sign him once the Sox release him, but valuing him enough to trade for him is another story.

santo=dorf
01-30-2008, 05:40 AM
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Also, as an FYI to many around here, I'd guess that NO ONE WANTS NICK MASSET.
We shall see once he has to clear waivers after not making the team out of Spring Training.

When I ever start to think Sox fans are "baseball smarter" than those of other teams, I have a few threads I go back to in order to bring myself back down to earth. This will be another one.
Unfortunately, I agree. The "pile-on junk for good player" trades, the constant misspelling of players names, some of whom are cornerstone players for the Sox (Buehrle,) and Cub-like kool aid posts which consists of everybody in the rotation winning 15 games or the team having a 30+ game turn around are really silly.

rdivaldi
01-30-2008, 07:19 AM
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Also, as an FYI to many around here, I'd guess that NO ONE WANTS NICK MASSET.

Just like no one would want Aardsma?

jabrch
01-30-2008, 07:35 AM
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Also, as an FYI to many around here, I'd guess that NO ONE WANTS NICK MASSET.

That's ridiculous Kittle. We wouldn't get a top tier prospect for him, but he definitely has value.

CashMan
01-30-2008, 07:50 AM
You got the point didnt you? Its just a thread of opinion, if you feel like bashing someone so be it. Im a season ticket holder since 1991 and trust me, I know what I am talking about. Maybe that package would not be enough, just would be nice to get a solid second basemen and Bedard. Enjoy your day pal.


How much money were you pulling down at the tender ago of 15?

pdimas
01-30-2008, 09:38 AM
How much money were you pulling down at the tender ago of 15?

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Taliesinrk
01-30-2008, 09:41 AM
That's ridiculous Kittle. We wouldn't get a top tier prospect for him, but he definitely has value.

Yes. I mean Joe Borchard had value.. right?

EDIT: Maybe we cut him.. but seriously.. Masset has value - Hell, we got people for Aardsma

PalehosePlanet
01-30-2008, 09:56 AM
It would be a stretch to expect Brian Roberts by himself for Crede, Danks, and Richar.

What is it with everyone thinking we can unload our junk on other teams in exchange for stars today?

Danks is not junk: I personally wouldn't trade Danks for Roberts straight up.

Packaging Danks to acquire Bedard I would probably do.

pdimas
01-30-2008, 10:12 AM
Yes. I mean Joe Borchard had value.. right?

EDIT: Maybe we cut him.. but seriously.. Masset has value - Hell, we got people for Aardsma


We got Matt Thornton for Borchard.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 10:59 AM
Yes. I mean Joe Borchard had value.. right?

EDIT: Maybe we cut him.. but seriously.. Masset has value - Hell, we got people for Aardsma

Yes we got "people" for Aarsdma. We got 2 nothing prospects for a guy who has had Major League success before. He had a solid 2006 season with the Cubs and a great first 15 innings with the Sox. Masset can't hold a candle to the success Aardsma has had, and that's pretty sad.

Just because teams swap warm bodies doesn't mean there's any value in anything involved. Crap can get crap.

Taliesinrk
01-30-2008, 11:13 AM
Yes we got "people" for Aarsdma. We got 2 nothing prospects for a guy who has had Major League success before. He had a solid 2006 season with the Cubs and a great first 15 innings with the Sox. Masset can't hold a candle to the success Aardsma has had, and that's pretty sad.

Just because teams swap warm bodies doesn't mean there's any value in anything involved. Crap can get crap.

Apples and Oranges. That situation only exists because Aardsma has been put into major league games. He's a reliever.. Masset, for the most part, has been groomed to be a starter and it's a lot easier to hit "The Show" from the bullpen. They're both pitchers, but IMO should be considered different positions for the sake of this argument

EDIT: Thornton has turned out "alright" - I think he could come back this year. And by no means am I trying to say that Masset is a superstar in the making, but he is a good player and when given the opportunity, I believe, will be able to produce enough at the ML level.

Sargeant79
01-30-2008, 11:28 AM
Danks is not junk: I personally wouldn't trade Danks for Roberts straight up.

Packaging Danks to acquire Bedard I would probably do.


Read my other post... I agree that Danks is far from junk. I wouldn't trade him for Roberts either. But what I am willing to do and what another major league team's GM is willing to accept in trade are two different things.

the1tab
01-30-2008, 11:34 AM
Apples and Oranges. That situation only exists because Aardsma has been put into major league games. He's a reliever.. Masset, for the most part, has been groomed to be a starter and it's a lot easier to hit "The Show" from the bullpen. They're both pitchers, but IMO should be considered different positions for the sake of this argument

EDIT: Thornton has turned out "alright" - I think he could come back this year. And by no means am I trying to say that Masset is a superstar in the making, but he is a good player and when given the opportunity, I believe, will be able to produce enough at the ML level.

When, exactly, is Masset going to get a chance at the rotation? In the past couple years, the move from starter to bullpen and back hasn't been a completely irrelevant idea; I'm not saying that Brett Myers or Ryan Dempster are going to win a Cy Young in the next decade, but John Smoltz did well in both roles and others have as well. If memory serves, Jonathan Papelbon was "groomed as a starter" and hit "The Show" in the pen and God knows everyone in baseball would love to have him in their bullpen now 2 years later. I see nothing wrong with a guy who can get outs getting his shot in relief until something opens up in the rotation. Heck, maybe we'll find a gem we can have down there for a few years. Heaven forbid we have someone other than Jenks down there for more than 6 consecutive months...

PennStater98r
01-30-2008, 11:37 AM
It's not that far off to assume we could work something out to get Bedard, Roberts or both. I mean, look at the crap that New York gave up for Santana. It's not always about getting the top tier prospects out there. A lot of the time - it's about moving dollars. If the Orioles feel they can get some talent along with some crap - and the salaries they're paying come out to $100s of thousands of dollars instead of millions for guys that will be gone after next year anyway - then they might make the move.

I know there are guys like Masset that has no value. I know that we're not going to move Fields or Quentin. But the facts are that Richar does have value. Brian Anderson has value. We have bullpen guys that have value. In light of the package that Minnesota is getting for Santana - I just think we'd have a chance at pulling something off. Either that, or Minnesota sees something in the kids they got that their numbers just don't show.

rdivaldi
01-30-2008, 11:40 AM
Danks is not junk: I personally wouldn't trade Danks for Roberts straight up.

Nor would any GM worth a squirt. Some of you are completely undervaluing our players. I understand that some people are over the top, but the proper response is not to go completely counter to it. It's also rather childish of some of you to call other fans "morons" or something to that effect.

The bashing of silly trades is getting a little too personal. Why don't we tone it down a little?

the1tab
01-30-2008, 11:41 AM
It's not that far off to assume we could work something out to get Bedard, Roberts or both. I mean, look at the crap that New York gave up for Santana. It's not always about getting the top tier prospects out there. A lot of the time - it's about moving dollars. If the Orioles feel they can get some talent along with some crap - and the salaries they're paying come out to $100s of thousands of dollars instead of millions for guys that will be gone after next year anyway - then they might make the move.

I know there are guys like Masset that has no value. I know that we're not going to move Fields or Quentin. But the facts are that Richar does have value. Brian Anderson has value. We have bullpen guys that have value. In light of the package that Minnesota is getting for Santana - I just think we'd have a chance at pulling something off. Either that, or Minnesota sees something in the kids they got that their numbers just don't show.

I remember when people asked questions about the AJ-to-San Francisco deal, saying the Twinkies gave away a good C for a middle reliever and prospects. Nathan and Liriano have been pretty good. I would love to see any sports team in Chicago evaluate talent the way the Twins have.

However, I must question the amount of value Brian Anderson has over Masset.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 11:54 AM
Apples and Oranges. That situation only exists because Aardsma has been put into major league games. He's a reliever.. Masset, for the most part, has been groomed to be a starter and it's a lot easier to hit "The Show" from the bullpen. They're both pitchers, but IMO should be considered different positions for the sake of this argument

EDIT: Thornton has turned out "alright" - I think he could come back this year. And by no means am I trying to say that Masset is a superstar in the making, but he is a good player and when given the opportunity, I believe, will be able to produce enough at the ML level.

I agree that Masset could return a project arm or something that, but I doubt he holds any value in a deal that returns top players like Bedard or Roberts.

PennStater98r
01-30-2008, 11:59 AM
I remember when people asked questions about the AJ-to-San Francisco deal, saying the Twinkies gave away a good C for a middle reliever and prospects. Nathan and Liriano have been pretty good. I would love to see any sports team in Chicago evaluate talent the way the Twins have.

However, I must question the amount of value Brian Anderson has over Masset.

Well, that's why I dropped the statement in there about Minnesota seeing something we don't. That said, Nathan still had some good numbers in 2003. He had just gone 12-4 with an ERA under 3.00. He was solid - and with Mauer waiting in the wings, he was a great cornerstone for the trade. As far as Liriano goes, the kid's strikeout rating was over 1 an inning at the age of 17. To be playing in the minors by 17 said something as well. It's not as though the Twinks got any 19 year old prospects with high ceilings (like Liriano) for Santana. They got a bunch of guys that can contribute soon - but don't have the potential to be MVPs or Cy Young award winners. I think some had tagged Liriano as a high ceiling guy.

I'm not saying that Anderson has a ton of value, but we know he has a very good glove and there's some value there. Again, the question is: Are the Orioles dumping salary? If they are dumping salary, are they looking for one high ceiling guy or two or three. In my estimation, when a guy is on the blocks, it's like selling a house. The longer that the house sits out there will mean less money coming in for that house. Substitute talent for money in that analogy.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 12:00 PM
It's not that far off to assume we could work something out to get Bedard, Roberts or both. I mean, look at the crap that New York gave up for Santana. It's not always about getting the top tier prospects out there. A lot of the time - it's about moving dollars. If the Orioles feel they can get some talent along with some crap - and the salaries they're paying come out to $100s of thousands of dollars instead of millions for guys that will be gone after next year anyway - then they might make the move.

I know there are guys like Masset that has no value. I know that we're not going to move Fields or Quentin. But the facts are that Richar does have value. Brian Anderson has value. We have bullpen guys that have value. In light of the package that Minnesota is getting for Santana - I just think we'd have a chance at pulling something off. Either that, or Minnesota sees something in the kids they got that their numbers just don't show.

New York did not give up "crap" for Santana.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 12:04 PM
Well, that's why I dropped the statement in there about Minnesota seeing something we don't. That said, Nathan still had some good numbers in 2003. He had just gone 12-4 with an ERA under 3.00. He was solid - and with Mauer waiting in the wings, he was a great cornerstone for the trade. As far as Liriano goes, the kid's strikeout rating was over 1 an inning at the age of 17. To be playing in the minors by 17 said something as well. It's not as though the Twinks got any 19 year old prospects with high ceilings (like Liriano) for Santana. They got a bunch of guys that can contribute soon - but don't have the potential to be MVPs or Cy Young award winners. I think some had tagged Liriano as a high ceiling guy.

I'm not saying that Anderson has a ton of value, but we know he has a very good glove and there's some value there. Again, the question is: Are the Orioles dumping salary? If they are dumping salary, are they looking for one high ceiling guy or two or three. In my estimation, when a guy is on the blocks, it's like selling a house. The longer that the house sits out there will mean less money coming in for that house. Substitute talent for money in that analogy.

Bedard and Santana are two different situations. Bedard still has 2 years left on his contract. He doesn't need to be moved. His contract is cheap. Baltimore is not, or hasn't been, a cheap organization. They aren't the Marlins.

Taliesinrk
01-30-2008, 12:18 PM
When, exactly, is Masset going to get a chance at the rotation? In the past couple years, the move from starter to bullpen and back hasn't been a completely irrelevant idea; I'm not saying that Brett Myers or Ryan Dempster are going to win a Cy Young in the next decade, but John Smoltz did well in both roles and others have as well. If memory serves, Jonathan Papelbon was "groomed as a starter" and hit "The Show" in the pen and God knows everyone in baseball would love to have him in their bullpen now 2 years later. I see nothing wrong with a guy who can get outs getting his shot in relief until something opens up in the rotation. Heck, maybe we'll find a gem we can have down there for a few years. Heaven forbid we have someone other than Jenks down there for more than 6 consecutive months...

I think you misunderstood what I was saying (or I didn't articulate it well enough). Pretty much, I'm not saying Masset will contribute as a SP.. just as a P. He's been brought up to be a SP, though, regardless of what he will be doing in the future (somewhat like McCarthy when we put him in the BP to "hang out" until a spot opened up). If Masset would have been put in to handle short, frequent relief stints like Aardsma, then he most likely would have a different track record than he does now. They believe, however, that he's better suited for a different role, thus explaining why he hasn't gotten the opportunities that Aardsma has. The previous poster just made it seem like DA was much better than NM, and I disagree. I believe they're very different pitchers which explains why they have different track records

Tragg
01-30-2008, 01:17 PM
Bedard and Santana are two different situations. Bedard still has 2 years left on his contract. He doesn't need to be moved. His contract is cheap. Baltimore is not, or hasn't been, a cheap organization. They aren't the Marlins.
1 year difference in contract length- that's it.

Sargeant79
01-30-2008, 01:37 PM
1 year difference in contract length- that's it.

That's true, however 1-year is a big difference in terms of how it affects the trade value of a top-notch starting pitcher with a reasonable salary in the short term.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 03:15 PM
That's true, however 1-year is a big difference in terms of how it affects the trade value of a top-notch starting pitcher with a reasonable salary in the short term.

That, and the Orioles don't have to move Bedard this offseason or even at the deadline. They can wait for the offer they want. The Orioles are sitting pretty with Bedard. The Twins were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

TheVulture
01-30-2008, 03:43 PM
When I ever start to think Sox fans are "baseball smarter" than those of other teams, I have a few threads I go back to in order to bring myself back down to earth. This will be another one.

Oh, man - lmao - I'm bookmarking this one now too.