PDA

View Full Version : Reinsdorf on Nats Stadium Site and more


DSpivack
01-24-2008, 02:18 PM
http://www.examiner.com/blogs/Yeas_and_Nays/2008/1/23/ChiSox-owner-Nats-new-site-was-a-mistake

Fenway
01-24-2008, 02:35 PM
http://www.examiner.com/blogs/Yeas_and_Nays/2008/1/23/ChiSox-owner-Nats-new-site-was-a-mistake

This coming from a man that ignored a survey of White Sox fans in the 80's that cited what is your biggest complaint of Comiskey Park

#1 was location ( so they wind up across the street )

DSpivack
01-24-2008, 02:42 PM
This coming from a man that ignored a survey of White Sox fans in the 80's that cited what is your biggest complaint of Comiskey Park

#1 was location ( so they wind up across the street )

He may be right about the location, though. Sure, it might "revitalize" the area of SE that it was built in, but it's still not entirely clear where people will park. It seems they'll use RFK's parking lots (a few miles away) and have shuttles over to the ballpark. Meanwhile, Metro is renovating the station, and the traffic through there will probably be awful. March 30 (the day the park opens) should be interesting.

A Northern Virginia site would have been more in tune with the fans of the team, except I'm not sure where there would have been space to put it that is Metro-accessible, has room for parking, and isn't too far out. RFK probably would have been the best location.

Irishsox1
01-24-2008, 02:55 PM
This coming from a man that ignored a survey of White Sox fans in the 80's that cited what is your biggest complaint of Comiskey Park

#1 was location ( so they wind up across the street )

Of course 1980's Sox fans didn't like the location, because the late '60's and '70's were brutal to most major cities especially northern cities.

However, the decision to keep the White Sox in Chicago was a tough decision but ultimately the right one. It's close to downtown, right on the expressway, accessible by the "L" and the Metra plus they don't pay real estate taxes which was really smart given the rising value of land in Chicago.

Hitmen77
01-24-2008, 02:56 PM
This coming from a man that ignored a survey of White Sox fans in the 80's that cited what is your biggest complaint of Comiskey Park

#1 was location ( so they wind up across the street )

But, that wasn't his choice, was it?.

Reinsdorf, consistent with that complaint, picked west suburban Addison as the home of the new Sox Park. In fact, I specifically remember JR pitching Addison based on the fact that many Sox season ticket holders lived in DuPage County. However, IIRC Addison residents voted down the stadium deal. My memory is a little fuzzy on what happened next, but I seem to recall that it was the city of Chicago that insisted on the 35th & Shields location for a new park.

So, I think it's unfair to say that Reinsdorf simply ignored a survey of Sox fans on ballpark location. It doesn't matter - IMHO it was Reinsdorf's lucky day that the Sox attempt to move to the suburbs got shot down. This was debated on a thread about a month ago, but I believe that location would have been a disaster for the White Sox franchise in the long run.

Fenway
01-24-2008, 03:07 PM
I remember driving out to the Addison site at the time and told my friend..this will be another Foxboro.

The Patriots have been in Foxboro since 1971 and they still haven't figured out how to get people in and out of there. Going to a Pats game is a 10-12 hour day unless you take the commuter rail from downtown.

As you can by this map there is no way out of Gillette except one....The Pats have been trying to have the state build a ramp to I-95 but it has never happened. Luckily the train tracks were there going back to the time a horse racing track was located at the Foxboro location. Addison would have been the same.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Gillette+Stadium,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,59.765625&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,42.091450,-71.265250&ll=42.102808,-71.265221&spn=0.054766,0.11673&z=13&om=0


But, that wasn't his choice, was it?.

Reinsdorf, consistent with that complaint, picked west suburban Addison as the home of the new Sox Park. In fact, I specifically remember JR pitching Addison based on the fact that many Sox season ticket holders lived in DuPage County. However, IIRC Addison residents voted down the stadium deal. My memory is a little fuzzy on what happened next, but I seem to recall that it was the city of Chicago that insisted on the 35th & Shields location for a new park.

So, I think it's unfair to say that Reinsdorf simply ignored a survey of Sox fans on ballpark location. It doesn't matter - IMHO it was Reinsdorf's lucky day that the Sox attempt to move to the suburbs got shot down. This was debated on a thread about a month ago, but I believe that location would have been a disaster for the White Sox franchise in the long run.

chisoxmike
01-24-2008, 03:24 PM
Reinsdorf, consistent with that complaint, picked west suburban Addison as the home of the new Sox Park. In fact, I specifically remember JR pitching Addison based on the fact that many Sox season ticket holders lived in DuPage County.

Thank God that didn't happen!!!!!! :supernana::supernana:

champagne030
01-24-2008, 03:30 PM
I remember driving out to the Addison site at the time and told my friend..this will be another Foxboro.

The Patriots have been in Foxboro since 1971 and they still haven't figured out how to get people in and out of there. Going to a Pats game is a 10-12 hour day unless you take the commuter rail from downtown.

As you can by this map there is no way out of Gillette except one....The Pats have been trying to have the state build a ramp to I-95 but it has never happened. Luckily the train tracks were there going back to the time a horse racing track was located at the Foxboro location. Addison would have been the same.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Gillette+Stadium,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,59.765625&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,42.091450,-71.265250&ll=42.102808,-71.265221&spn=0.054766,0.11673&z=13&om=0

You didn't realize the Eisenhower goes through Addison?

I also thought the proposed stadium was right off 355?

Going to a game in Addison wouldn't have been a 10-12 hour day unless you saw a doubleheader and tailgated for 3 hours prior and and a couple of hours afterwards. Addison isn't in the middle of nowhere.

Hokiesox
01-24-2008, 03:37 PM
He may be right about the location, though. Sure, it might "revitalize" the area of SE that it was built in, but it's still not entirely clear where people will park. It seems they'll use RFK's parking lots (a few miles away) and have shuttles over to the ballpark. Meanwhile, Metro is renovating the station, and the traffic through there will probably be awful. March 30 (the day the park opens) should be interesting.

A Northern Virginia site would have been more in tune with the fans of the team, except I'm not sure where there would have been space to put it that is Metro-accessible, has room for parking, and isn't too far out. RFK probably would have been the best location.

That sure would have ended the discussion of a Tysons-Dulles extension, which given the animosity between the residents, state, and Fed. govt...might not have been a bad thing.

Fenway
01-24-2008, 03:43 PM
You didn't realize the Eisenhower goes through Addison?

I also thought the proposed stadium was right off 355?

Going to a game in Addison wouldn't have been a 10-12 hour day unless you saw a doubleheader and tailgated for 3 hours prior and and a couple of hours afterwards. Addison isn't in the middle of nowhere.

IF Illinois built a ramp to 355 then it would be OK ( just like in Foxboro is they built a damn ramp to I-95)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=+1155+N+Swift+Road+Addison+,+IL+60101&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=41.950299,-88.041859&spn=0.006862,0.014591&z=16&om=0

What the White Sox would have lost would be fans in the city who don't drive. Getting to Addison by METRA would make for a long trip from the city

Foxboro is insane....if you going back to Boston you are better off heading south towards Providence and going to the 495 beltway ( adds 20 miles but you get home faster ) The major problem is getting out of the parking lot.

jdm2662
01-24-2008, 03:44 PM
You didn't realize the Eisenhower goes through Addison?

I also thought the proposed stadium was right off 355?

Going to a game in Addison wouldn't have been a 10-12 hour day unless you saw a doubleheader and tailgated for 3 hours prior and and a couple of hours afterwards. Addison isn't in the middle of nowhere.

The area is right around where Dave and Buster's is, right off of 355, which wasn't around until 1990. 290 also has an exit right at Lake St. Both 355 and 290 are literally right there (they merge together). There are plenty of East-West streets you can take (Roosevelt, St. Charles, North Ave, Lake St., etc). Staying the city was the right move, but I don't think it would've been a nightmare getting there as some may think. The area is much more accessible than where I work (Northbrook).

jdm2662
01-24-2008, 03:47 PM
IF Illinois build a ramp to 355 then it would be OK ( just like in Foxboro )
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=+1155+N+Swift+Road+Addison+,+IL+60101&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=41.950299,-88.041859&spn=0.006862,0.014591&z=16&om=0
What the White Sox would have lost would be fans in the city who don't drive. Getting to Addison by METRA would make for a long trip from thje city

See my post below. 355 wasn't around until 1990. There is an exit on 355 and 290 to Lake St, which would've taken you to the stadium. It could've worked driving wise, but public transportation is another story. I would probably became a season ticket holder had they built that stadium. I've never lived more than 20 mins away from that land.

Fenway
01-24-2008, 03:50 PM
See my post below. 355 wasn't around until 1990. There is an exit on 355 and 290 to Lake St, which would've taken you to the stadium. It could've worked driving wise, but public transportation is another story. I would probably became a season ticket holder had they built that stadium. I've never lived more than 20 mins away from that land.

This seems to a be a big issue with the new A's stadium in Fremont.

A good chunk of A's fans do not drive and take BART to the stadium. The new park will not be near BART and they are looking at how to move people to the ballpark.

jdm2662
01-24-2008, 04:02 PM
This seems to a be a big issue with the new A's stadium in Fremont.

A good chunk of A's fans do not drive and take BART to the stadium. The new park will not be near BART and they are looking at how to move people to the ballpark.

Yes, that would be an issue. I know one Metra line stops at Lombard and Glen Ellyn. I know the Lombard one is at least 15-20 min drive from that area (I should know, I live about 500 feet from it...). There is another line that runs, but not sure where that stops after Bennsenvile. You could setup shuttle busses from those stops, but it's not nearly as convenient as the El. To me, that's the biggest issue, not driving to the land. It's rather easy to get to. I work in Northbrook, and it's a nightmare to get to. There are lots of options driving wise where I live.

nccwsfan
01-24-2008, 04:07 PM
He may be right about the location, though. Sure, it might "revitalize" the area of SE that it was built in, but it's still not entirely clear where people will park. It seems they'll use RFK's parking lots (a few miles away) and have shuttles over to the ballpark. Meanwhile, Metro is renovating the station, and the traffic through there will probably be awful. March 30 (the day the park opens) should be interesting.

A Northern Virginia site would have been more in tune with the fans of the team, except I'm not sure where there would have been space to put it that is Metro-accessible, has room for parking, and isn't too far out. RFK probably would have been the best location.

I'm happy with the site, because it's easier for me to take the Metro from Springfield to the Green Line than it is to drive over to Dulles (absolute nightmare). Most people will end up taking advantage of the Metro and avoiding the nightmare parking situation...

batmanZoSo
01-24-2008, 04:48 PM
I remember driving out to the Addison site at the time and told my friend..this will be another Foxboro.

The Patriots have been in Foxboro since 1971 and they still haven't figured out how to get people in and out of there. Going to a Pats game is a 10-12 hour day unless you take the commuter rail from downtown.

As you can by this map there is no way out of Gillette except one....The Pats have been trying to have the state build a ramp to I-95 but it has never happened. Luckily the train tracks were there going back to the time a horse racing track was located at the Foxboro location. Addison would have been the same.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Gillette+Stadium,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,59.765625&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,42.091450,-71.265250&ll=42.102808,-71.265221&spn=0.054766,0.11673&z=13&om=0

Addison would've been an absolutely horrible location for many reasons, but mainly because it's not easy to get to. 290 is terrible for south siders and 355 has only recently connected south to 80.

The location of the current park is great. The area has improved a lot over time and logistically you can't beat the location.

soxwon
01-24-2008, 05:07 PM
I remember driving out to the Addison site at the time and told my friend..this will be another Foxboro.

The Patriots have been in Foxboro since 1971 and they still haven't figured out how to get people in and out of there. Going to a Pats game is a 10-12 hour day unless you take the commuter rail from downtown.

As you can by this map there is no way out of Gillette except one....The Pats have been trying to have the state build a ramp to I-95 but it has never happened. Luckily the train tracks were there going back to the time a horse racing track was located at the Foxboro location. Addison would have been the same.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Gillette+Stadium,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,59.765625&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,42.091450,-71.265250&ll=42.102808,-71.265221&spn=0.054766,0.11673&z=13&om=0

i was living in addison at the time, the stadium would have been in my backyard.
I was so pissed they didnt move there, i would be working for the sox today.
Atleast they stayed in chicago though.

soxwon
01-24-2008, 05:08 PM
Addison would've been an absolutely horrible location for many reasons, but mainly because it's not easy to get to. 290 is terrible for south siders and 355 has only recently connected south to 80.

The location of the current park is great. The area has improved a lot over time and logistically you can't beat the location.

not if you live in dupage county.

doublem23
01-24-2008, 05:28 PM
not if you live in dupage county.

Just Say No to the Suburbs

Lip Man 1
01-24-2008, 06:44 PM
Fenway:

When Jerry Reinsdorf's motion in Addison was defeated by literally only a few votes, the city of Chicago under Harold Washington told the Sox the only site they would approve of was right next to the original Comiskey Park.

If the Sox decided to go somewhere else Washington's hand picked people on the Illinois Sports Stadium Authority Commission would have voted , no.

Chicago politics at its best!

Lip

DSpivack
01-24-2008, 06:45 PM
Fenway:

When Jerry Reinsdorf's motion in Addison was defeated by literally only a few votes, the city of Chicago under Harold Washington told the Sox the only site they would approve of was right next to the original Comiskey Park.

If the Sox decided to go somewhere else Washington's hand picked people on the Illinois Sports Stadium Authority Commission would have voted , no.

Chicago politics at its best!

Lip

The story of the clock staying at midnight for awhile is among my favorite in Illinois politics/sports lore. Time stops for the White Sox!

champagne030
01-24-2008, 08:06 PM
not if you live in dupage county.

Or Kane, Lake, Kendall, NW suburban Cook and anywhere outside of the city and NW Indiana. Obviously, my comment is based upon location only. I'd guess that at least 50% of the people at the park could commute to Addison easier/quicker than Bridgeport. Maybe not in 1989, but most likely in 1990.

skottyj242
01-25-2008, 09:02 AM
Where the hell is Addison?

whitesoxwilkes
01-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Where exactly in Addison would the park have been? I play golf at Indian Lakes a lot and am trying to picture where it would be in relation to there.

doublem23
01-25-2008, 09:32 AM
Where exactly in Addison would the park have been? I play golf at Indian Lakes a lot and am trying to picture where it would be in relation to there.

It was supposed to be where the Addison Industrial District is now... Having never been to Addison or even really knowing where it is in the grand scheme of things, I don't know what roads that would be on, but maybe someone more familiar with the town would?

Hitmen77
01-25-2008, 09:33 AM
Where exactly in Addison would the park have been? I play golf at Indian Lakes a lot and am trying to picture where it would be in relation to there.

Where Dave & Busters is now - at Lake St. and I-355.

AZChiSoxFan
01-25-2008, 11:00 AM
The story of the clock staying at midnight for awhile is among my favorite in Illinois politics/sports lore. Time stops for the White Sox!

Totally agree! I love that story!!

white sox bill
01-25-2008, 12:01 PM
IIRC didn't the proposed stadium in Addison was going to be built on wetlands or some kind of protected land, hence the snup by the city of Addison? Or am I thinking of another ballpark

A.T. Money
01-25-2008, 07:03 PM
Just south of Schaumburg and Woodfield.

Actually a very easy place to get to now...it would have been tougher back then. You have Lake St. and Army Trail Rd. to help you get out of there now.

soxtalker
01-25-2008, 07:55 PM
I think that the Addison location would have been a better -- probably much better -- location than the current location at the time the stadium was built. Travel would be tough for anyone coming from any distance for either location (and it is worse now). [It's been brutal the past couple of years with construction on the Dan Ryan.]

I've often thought that the biggest advantage that the Cubs have over the White Sox is that they have a much larger relatively affluent population that lives within 30 minutes of Wrigley. The areas around Sox park were more industrial and somewhat lower income with probably far fewer people in the 20-30 age range (before kids, disposable income) that Wrigley has depended upon. The suburbs could have provided that.

But we're almost 20 years past that time. And the current location is starting to pay off. The building boom of the past few years has changed the demographics in areas near the park.

chisox77
01-26-2008, 03:34 PM
No matter how it happened, or what the options were over 20 years ago, the White Sox are playing baseball games where they should be playing them - in the city of Chicago, at 35th and Shields. It's the best location, and within a decade, with all of the developmen heading south of the Loop, the neighborhood has a ton of upside.


:cool:

chisoxfanatic
01-26-2008, 05:58 PM
Yes, this IS quite a nice neighborhood, I'd agree! I wouldn't change a thing about where the ballpark is for anything! And, now, there's no looking back! We ALSO now have the mystique of the 2005 World Series Champions that will live there for years and years, with, hopefully, more championship teams to join the greatest White Sox team in history. :D:

MarySwiss
01-26-2008, 06:12 PM
Yes, this IS quite a nice neighborhood, I'd agree! I wouldn't change a thing about where the ballpark is for anything! And, now, there's no looking back! We ALSO now have the mystique of the 2005 World Series Champions that will live there for years and years, with, hopefully, more championship teams to join the greatest White Sox team in history. :D:

Heather, I have never, at no time, been afraid to venture into Bridgeport. And I hope that stereotype about what a horrible neighborhood it is no longer exists.

However, some years ago, one of Jim's cousins got engaged to a girl from--GASP!--the South Side. (Brighton Park, to be exact.) And one of her aunts threw her a shower. All of Jim's NW side female relatives were in full panic mode, until I stepped forward and volunteered to drive. Much to their surprise, the houses in Brighton Park looked very much like the houses on the Northwest Side.
Who'da thunk it? :D:

Nelson Foxtrot
01-27-2008, 02:42 AM
I know most folks in the metro area are in the suburbs, but it always seems weird to me to have a team playing outside the city (or state in the case of the NY Giants/Jets) for which it's named. I seem to remember the new park being quite popular the first few years. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like most of the "dangerous area" talk was from people who thought the Southside as a whole was horribly unsafe. I think the fear about the neighborhood itself being dangerous started (or at least got blown out of proportion) after the incident with the mentally ill resident wielding the table leg. I even knew a lot of Southside fans who suddenly bought into the "Can't go to Sox park. Too dangerous!" mentality after that one-time isolated incident.

soxwon
01-27-2008, 05:55 PM
[quote=Hitmen77;1779361]Where Dave & Busters is now - at Lake St. and I-355.[/quote

On Swift Road beetween Lake & Army trail roads.

whitesoxwilkes
01-27-2008, 08:50 PM
Yes, this IS quite a nice neighborhood, I'd agree! I wouldn't change a thing about where the ballpark is for anything! And, now, there's no looking back! We ALSO now have the mystique of the 2005 World Series Champions that will live there for years and years, with, hopefully, more championship teams to join the greatest White Sox team in history. :D:

But not nice enough to walk 4 blocks in, right?