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View Full Version : Canseco asked Ordonez money to keep his name out of book


Sockinchisox
01-23-2008, 10:57 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/sports/baseball/24canseco.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

Apparently Canseco asked Magglio for money to keep his name out of his next book, Canseco denies it and Maggs says it was true.

NSSoxFan
01-23-2008, 11:09 PM
Where there is smoke...

SoxNation05
01-23-2008, 11:13 PM
I really hope Maggs didn't take steroids. :whiner:

WhiteSox5187
01-23-2008, 11:18 PM
I really hope Maggs didn't take steroids. :whiner:
This really makes Canseco look bad more than anything else...I dont think there is any smoke or anything here.

eriqjaffe
01-23-2008, 11:28 PM
I really hope Maggs didn't take steroids. :whiner:If there's any validity do this allegation at all, it certainly makes Maggs' behavior toward the Sox after '04 all the more interesting, what with the evasiveness, the lack of access to medical records, etc. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that there hadn't been any allegations before this - he had a knee injury that was severe enough to be considered career threatening, had some oddball procedure performed in another continent, missed half of '05 with a mysterious "hernia", and then came back to post some absolutely monster numbers...

jabrch
01-23-2008, 11:42 PM
This really makes Canseco look bad more than anything else...I dont think there is any smoke or anything here.

Canseco always looks bad. That said - in the area of steroids, Jose has credibility - more than most.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out true. Ordonez is a filthy lying piece of crap. I have no love for him - whatsoever.

voodoochile
01-23-2008, 11:46 PM
He'll just cry and claim he was trying to heal his knee...

QCIASOXFAN
01-23-2008, 11:48 PM
This really makes Canseco look bad more than anything else...I dont think there is any smoke or anything here.
Last I checked Jose had a pretty good track record on blowing the whistle and narking players out. I believe everything he says about players and roids.

drewcifer
01-24-2008, 12:41 AM
Last I checked Jose had a pretty good track record on blowing the whistle and narking players out. I believe everything he says about players and roids.

Me too - no reason he'd pull any punches now.

IlliniSox4Life
01-24-2008, 03:05 AM
Pretty much the only thing new to be read from this is that Ordonez probably took steroids (I don't know if that is new or not).

Canseco has always been in the "exposing cheaters" business for the money/fame. We all knew he is scum but that he has pretty much been dead on when he has narced. He really doesn't have any incentive to lie about somebody cheating because it just opens him up to a libel suit. This makes my opinion of him a little bit lower, but there isn't a whole lot of room left for it to be lowered.

Steelrod
01-24-2008, 07:33 AM
Who is the one with the most credibility, Jose or Maggs?

Viva Medias B's
01-24-2008, 07:49 AM
It would be really sad if it turned out that Mágglio took steroids. If I were him, I would have threatened Canseco with a lawsuit if he printed Ordóñez's name in the book and accused him of steroid use (provided Mágglio is clean, of course). Even though Canseco may have "successfully outed" some names with Juiced, that does not mean what he says about who did what is gospel. He mentioned Alex Rodriguez in Juiced, did he not? And, amid the allegations, Rodriguez has not been officially linked to steroid usage.

dickallen15
01-24-2008, 08:14 AM
Last I checked Jose had a pretty good track record on blowing the whistle and narking players out. I believe everything he says about players and roids.
Yet for some cash he will leave your name out of the book? I think it dents his credibility a bit.

rocky biddle
01-24-2008, 08:15 AM
In this day and age I wouldn't be too shocked to hear that anyone took PEDs; especially not a guy that miraculously came back from an almost career-ending injury.

Not that my trust of Canseco is absolute though. I think if he had any concrete evidence about current players he'd have put another book out already. It's obvious the guy will do anything for money and fame. And the book title is apparently "Vindicated." I'm guessing it'll be 300+ pages of rambling "I told you so's" with a little speculation about current players thrown in for good measure.

From the NY Times link:
Yaeger (former ghostwriter) pulled out of the project at the end of December, saying he questioned many of the accusations Canseco was preparing to make. “What he sent me was stuff like, ‘Look at the difference in their bodies’; there were not a lot of specifics,” Yaeger said.

Frontman
01-24-2008, 08:41 AM
In this day and age I wouldn't be too shocked to hear that anyone took PEDs; especially not a guy that miraculously came back from an almost career-ending injury.

Not that my trust of Canseco is absolute though. I think if he had any concrete evidence about current players he'd have put another book out already. It's obvious the guy will do anything for money and fame. And the book title is apparently "Vindicated." I'm guessing it'll be 300+ pages of rambling "I told you so's" with a little speculation about current players thrown in for good measure.

From the NY Times link:

Yaeger (former ghostwriter) pulled out of the project at the end of December, saying he questioned many of the accusations Canseco was preparing to make. “What he sent me was stuff like, ‘Look at the difference in their bodies’; there were not a lot of specifics,” Yaeger said.


That's exactly why guys like Canseco are scum. While they might be right and establish some credibility; they then start the supposition game and then are no more an expert on the topic than a fan who makes some guesses. We all do the "but look at his frame, look at his numbers" guesswork.

For example, do I believe Roger Clemens did steroids? Yes. Do I have hard evidence besides MacNamee's testimony? No. But I look at the circumstanial evidence and make my decision on that. That's all that Jose is doing; and making 30 bucks a pop for folks to read it.

I did not buy Juiced; I didn't read it. I won't be reading this next one either. When the whole "I got dirt on A-rod" stuff started; I immediately thought, "This guy's making this stuff up as he goes. If he had real evidence on A-Rod, he would of used it the first time around."

Oblong
01-24-2008, 09:10 AM
I believe Canseco floated the ARod stuff out as a trial balloon, sort of a gamble. That way if his name did show up in the Mitchell Report he'd have struck gold because people would then assume that Canseco's "source" is the same as Mitchell's so anything Canseco said (made up) about it would be taken as gospel and he'd have more credibility.

Canseco's right that lots of player stook them but I think he's just throwing darts at the wall, knowing that some of them will hit.

SoxyStu
01-24-2008, 09:21 AM
I know there are a good bunch of Mags lovers on here, but I had a feeling Mags was a juicer. I am more inclined to believe Jose, whether or not he asked for money; it is irrelevant.

I couldn't help but read between the lines (regarding PEDs) when I heard Ozzie go off on Mags calling him his enemy and a Venezuelan piece of **** - "He knows I can **** him a lot of different ways. He better shut the **** up and play for the Detroit Tigers."

Viva Medias B's
01-24-2008, 09:48 AM
This is only a "what if," and it's for the purpose of examining our own team. Suppose it turns out that Ordóñez used PEDs while with the White Sox. Again, I am not saying he did or did not but just playing "What if?" Could a legitimate question for our front office be "What did the White Sox front office know and when did they know it?" I will not be at SoxFext this weekend, but I can see this question coming up in a KW seminar.

AzureJazzMan
01-24-2008, 10:32 AM
I know there are a good bunch of Mags lovers on here, but I had a feeling Mags was a juicer. I am more inclined to believe Jose, whether or not he asked for money; it is irrelevant.

I couldn't help but read between the lines (regarding PEDs) when I heard Ozzie go off on Mags calling him his enemy and a Venezuelan piece of **** - "He knows I can **** him a lot of different ways. He better shut the **** up and play for the Detroit Tigers."

That is exactly where my thoughts went when I read Ozzie's rant back then. So, of course that is where my mind went back to when I heard this today. Thank you for pulling out that quote.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 10:35 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that if Canseco is willing to say it - that it is true. He's got no reason to lie. Maggs has no reason to not deny the charges either - since there appears no "proof" enough for either the law or MLB to get him - but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.

The fact that he is on Detroit Tigers also leads me to believe this is true. That franchise in the past 5 years has surely embraced cheating and drug use as much as anyone (outside the big 3 of Oakland, Baltimore and Texas). They have assembled themselves quite a squad of cheaters. Good for them.

Carolina Kenny
01-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Canseco always looks bad. That said - in the area of steroids, Jose has credibility - more than most.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out true. Ordonez is a filthy lying piece of crap. I have no love for him - whatsoever.

Mags was my favorite player for several years after he first came to the Majors. He had a nice blend of power/batting average and he was above average in the field.

Sadly, like often happens, a fan can confuse the image of who/what the player is versus the reality of who the player really is. In this case, Mags showed his true colors, and as far as I am concerned he is now the enemy,(and if I was a betting man, I would bet he is a roider.)

D. TODD
01-24-2008, 11:01 AM
It would not surprise me if this is true. Save maybe a couple of players NOBODY would surprise me for using some sort of enhancers. I toss this away with the Mitchell report and other reports. Let's get on the current situations with players. Canseco is a bum who would easily try to extort someone, and if he did so I hope he is prosecuted other then that play on. He is maybe rightfully bitter towards baseball for his blackballing, and has called MLB out on their hypocrisy .

I still like Maggs, and enjoyed his time on the Southside. He was injured and that forced a situation that left the Sox at a disadvantage to re-sign him. Tough break for the Sox, but I have no ill will toward Maggs. I wish he would have gone outside of our division though, because he is still a stud!

dickallen15
01-24-2008, 11:13 AM
I know there are a good bunch of Mags lovers on here, but I had a feeling Mags was a juicer. I am more inclined to believe Jose, whether or not he asked for money; it is irrelevant.

I couldn't help but read between the lines (regarding PEDs) when I heard Ozzie go off on Mags calling him his enemy and a Venezuelan piece of **** - "He knows I can **** him a lot of different ways. He better shut the **** up and play for the Detroit Tigers."
So you're saying the White Sox offered a contract extension to a player they knew to be juicing because if Ozzie knew the front office knew.

dickallen15
01-24-2008, 11:15 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that if Canseco is willing to say it - that it is true. He's got no reason to lie. Maggs has no reason to not deny the charges either - since there appears no "proof" enough for either the law or MLB to get him - but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.

The fact that he is on Detroit Tigers also leads me to believe this is true. That franchise in the past 5 years has surely embraced cheating and drug use as much as anyone (outside the big 3 of Oakland, Baltimore and Texas). They have assembled themselves quite a squad of cheaters. Good for them.
He doesn't? He apparently needs money and needs some names to sell books. How come guys like Maggs and ARod didn't make it into his first book? Maybe what he says is true, but face it, his credibility can easily be attacked successfully.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 11:20 AM
his credibility can easily be attacked successfully.

Sure - it is easy to attack anyone's credibility. But I have yet to see anyone who he accused of being involved in this vigorouosly defend themselves - or even prove that he was anything other than truthful.

Canseco is a scumbag himself. Sure - it is easy to attack him. But this is an area where he has a good bit of credibility.

voodoochile
01-24-2008, 11:26 AM
Sure - it is easy to attack anyone's credibility. But I have yet to see anyone who he accused of being involved in this vigorouosly defend themselves - or even prove that he was anything other than truthful.

Canseco is a scumbag himself. Sure - it is easy to attack him. But this is an area where he has a good bit of credibility.

In fact, that's exactly what this is, an attack on Canseco's credibility through the accusation that he is a blackmailer.

For me the interesting quote from that article is the one that says Maggs told the feds not to pursue the case. :?:

Flight #24
01-24-2008, 11:44 AM
In fact, that's exactly what this is, an attack on Canseco's credibility through the accusation that he is a blackmailer.

For me the interesting quote from that article is the one that says Maggs told the feds not to pursue the case. :?:

But I'm sure he hired the Clemens/Simpson detective squad to track down the "real dopers".

One of the benefits of HGH is healing. Maggs had a career-threatening knee injury that required out-of-the-country supersecret treatment.
:unsure:

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

doublem23
01-24-2008, 11:46 AM
For me the interesting quote from that article is the one that says Maggs told the feds not to pursue the case. :?:

Yeah, that struck me as bizarre, too. You don't call the Feds when your coked-out brother steals $100 from you. You call the Feds when a psychopath, money-grubbing attention whore supposedly blackmails you about some skeletons in your closet... Unless...

Say it ain't so, Magglio!

mjmcend
01-24-2008, 11:47 AM
Last I checked Jose had a pretty good track record on blowing the whistle and narking players out. I believe everything he says about players and roids.

Well, I hope you don't believe him when he tries to play doctor and wax poetically about everyone taking steroids in the future.

dickallen15
01-24-2008, 11:52 AM
But I'm sure he hired the Clemens/Simpson detective squad to track down the "real dopers".

One of the benefits of HGH is healing. Maggs had a career-threatening knee injury that required out-of-the-country supersecret treatment.
:unsure:

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
I would imagine Canseco's info on Ordonez would have come when they were teammates in 2001. Long before the injury.

sox1970
01-24-2008, 11:59 AM
I know there are a good bunch of Mags lovers on here, but I had a feeling Mags was a juicer. I am more inclined to believe Jose, whether or not he asked for money; it is irrelevant.

I couldn't help but read between the lines (regarding PEDs) when I heard Ozzie go off on Mags calling him his enemy and a Venezuelan piece of **** - "He knows I can **** him a lot of different ways. He better shut the **** up and play for the Detroit Tigers."

Correct.

I heard Maggs was on roids probably as far back as 1999. (edit:meaning I heard this back in 99)

They all do it.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 12:03 PM
For me the interesting quote from that article is the one that says Maggs told the feds not to pursue the case. :?:

The easiest way to avoid purjuring yourself to the Feds is... Avoid talking to them.

doublem23
01-24-2008, 12:04 PM
Correct.

I heard Maggs was on roids probably as far back as 1999. (edit:meaning I heard this back in 99)

They all do it.

And where did you hear that from? Consider Maggs has never been implicated for using PEDs, I'm willing to withold judgment until evidence a little more credible than being named by that pompous assclown surfaces.

thedudeabides
01-24-2008, 12:10 PM
The easiest way to avoid purjuring yourself to the Feds is... Avoid talking to them.

That is a great point.

It did seem funny how Maggs and IRod seemed to thin down quite a bit after testing.

SoxyStu
01-24-2008, 12:14 PM
So you're saying the White Sox offered a contract extension to a player they knew to be juicing because if Ozzie knew the front office knew.

Well, whether Sox brass knew I know not, but why wouldn't they offer him a contract even if they knew for sure he was a juicer?

Remember, this is 2004, not 2007 or 2008; there was no Mitchell Report or Congressional hearings. PEDs a big deal then? No, swept under a rug. Also, you're assuming Sox brass had some kind of moral standard they might have now (now, when looking at juicers, it's by a "case by case basis"). Even the fact now, in this day and age with all that's been published, that Williams would admit he would look at suspected juicers in a case by case basis should illustrate to you that, definitely yes, they would offer $ to a suspected juicer.

Plus, think of the PR backlash when word gets out that the Sox didn't offer him a reasonable contract extension because they have a conscious. There was enough guff about JR being cheap back then. Then, they surely couldn't make that public - "We didn't offer Mags a contract extension because he has been suspected of taking performing enhancing drugs." While that may have given them a pat on the back from baseball naturalists, I think it would surely guarantee winning fewer sweepsteaks for free agents, or quite possibly score them a lawsuit.

I think ya, for sure, within the 2004 circumstances, Sox brass would offer him a contract extension knowing full-well he was a juicer.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 12:17 PM
That is a great point.

It did seem funny how Maggs and IRod seemed to thin down quite a bit after testing.


Better nutrition - I'm sure. Take a look at Sheffield too. Them lovable kitties...

Just for the record...From the Mitchell Report

At the end of the 2004 season, a clubhouse employee was cleaning out the Detroit Tigers locker room when he found a black toiletry kit that was locked. He and another Tigers employee opened the bag and found unused syringes and vials that they determined were anabolic steroids. They did not report the incident. The employee said that he could not remember who the bag belonged to.

2004 Tigers...Vina? Carlos Pena? Ivan Rodriguez? Nook Logan?

Funny - the Tigers management staff never submitted this evidence of criminal activity to the law. Why not? Oh - year - that's right - like many other franchises, the Detroit Tigers knowingly turned a blind eye to criminal activity going on in their own clubhouse.

Douchebags

sox1970
01-24-2008, 12:17 PM
And where did you hear that from? Consider Maggs has never been implicated for using PEDs, I'm willing to withold judgment until evidence a little more credible than being named by that pompous assclown surfaces.

To be completely honest, I heard it from someone who heard it from someone, who knows someone. I'm willing to admit they wouldn't want to call me to the witness stand, but the point is I've heard things long before the media ever talked about steroids.

D. TODD
01-24-2008, 12:24 PM
Better nutrition - I'm sure. Take a look at Sheffield too. Them lovable kitties...

Just for the record...From the Mitchell Report


2004 Tigers...Vina? Carlos Pena? Ivan Rodriguez? Nook Logan?

Funny - the Tigers management staff never submitted this evidence of criminal activity to the law. Why not? Oh - year - that's right - like many other franchises, the Detroit Tigers knowingly turned a blind eye to criminal activity going on in their own clubhouse.

Douchebags All of baseball turned a blind eye to criminal activity in the clubhouse long before steroids or HGH. Any franchise being singled out is just a case of people throwing stones while they live in glass houses.

dickallen15
01-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Better nutrition - I'm sure. Take a look at Sheffield too. Them lovable kitties...

Just for the record...From the Mitchell Report


2004 Tigers...Vina? Carlos Pena? Ivan Rodriguez? Nook Logan?

Funny - the Tigers management staff never submitted this evidence of criminal activity to the law. Why not? Oh - year - that's right - like many other franchises, the Detroit Tigers knowingly turned a blind eye to criminal activity going on in their own clubhouse.

Douchebags

Didn't the White Sox sign Canseco? Didn't Schoenweiss have crap delivered to the clubhouse at USCF? Didn't KW sign Montero, one of the first players ever suspended for steroids? Isn't Valido still with the organization? Its not a Detroit thing. Steroids have been used heavily in every organization.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 12:55 PM
Didn't the White Sox sign Canseco? Didn't Schoenweiss have crap delivered to the clubhouse at USCF? Didn't KW sign Montero, one of the first players ever suspended for steroids? Isn't Valido still with the organization? Its not a Detroit thing. Steroids have been used heavily in every organization.

If you think the Sox have encouoraged this behaviour in the same level as the Tigers have - that's your choice. I believe Canseco was the only real black mark this franchise has on its record on this issue. In my eyes, Detroit, Texas, Baltimore and Oakland have gone well beyond most other organizations.

areilly
01-24-2008, 01:10 PM
And where did you hear that from? Consider Maggs has never been implicated for using PEDs, I'm willing to withold judgment until evidence a little more credible than being named by that pompous assclown surfaces.

This is akin to a guy charged with murder saying that since he'd never been accused of murder before, he was obviously innocent. :rolleyes:

Lots of people have never been implicated for using PEDs. That doesn't mean they didn't use them.

downstairs
01-24-2008, 01:56 PM
I really hope Maggs didn't take steroids. :whiner:

Maggs says its true, but doesn't want to persue the complaint?

Hmmmmmmm...

Looks like we got another one!

jabrch
01-24-2008, 02:03 PM
Just once - I'd like to see someone libel/slander me and accuse me of being a drug abuser and then try and extort money from me. I'd defend myself vigorously - and push for prosecution...

...unless of course, I am guilty

rocky biddle
01-24-2008, 02:22 PM
Just once - I'd like to see someone libel/slander me and accuse me of being a drug abuser and then try and extort money from me. I'd defend myself vigorously - and push for prosecution...

...unless of course, I am guilty

I agree with what you're saying, but how do you prove that you never took drugs? If someone asked me if I ever smoked crack, I'd say no. But I don't know how I'd prove it.

Irishsox1
01-24-2008, 03:41 PM
This is the biggest bunch of BS ever to come from Maggs/Boras. If you contact the FBI about being extorted, then why would you not file the case? Why would Maggs not want to go after Conseco?...It wasn't because they are good buddies or anything.

This is a perfect example of Boras floating this story out there to counter Conseco's story.

Oblong
01-24-2008, 04:02 PM
Ok... just to play devil's advocate. How come Canseco didn't name Ordonez in his previous book? Was it because he was coming off a bad year and not a sexy name? If Magglio hit .263 last year instead of .363 or whtaver it was would he allegedly be named in this new book?

jabrch
01-24-2008, 05:23 PM
I agree with what you're saying, but how do you prove that you never took drugs? If someone asked me if I ever smoked crack, I'd say no. But I don't know how I'd prove it.

I'm not a lawyer - but I have been through this particular issue myself. I'll defer to a lawyer here if one wants to go deeper into it. But when you accuse someone of slandering you, they are required to defend themselves. The following are defenses for slander.

Truth

Good faith or reasonable belief of truth

Privledge (spouse or witness testimony)

Opinion

Fair comment on public interest

Consent

innocent dissemination (didn't know)

Incapable of Defamation (the defendant has a reputation that can't be harmed any more than it already is)

So if Magglio accused Canseco of Libel/Slander, Jose would have to defend himself. Either that - or a judge would throw it out all together if Maggs had no basis.

The other thing is that if Canseco truly was trying to force Magglio to pay him to keep his mouth shut, Magglio and the FBI would go after Jose for that also if they wanted to. You can't do that. Extortion is also (usually) a federal crime (as it usually goes over state lines via the phone, mail or a computer).

While Jose is a scumbag - I believe everything he has said on Steroids until he is proven to be significantly wrong.

rookieroy
01-24-2008, 07:00 PM
Play the pretend legal expert game all you want. At the end of the day, this just flat smells bad. For Mags to take the high road is just strange. If anyone is accused of something they didn't do, two things happen. One, you get a little pissed off and two, you defend yourself. Mags did neither other than to tell Dombrowski about it.

And oh ya....tell the FBI to forget it? Pleeeeeeease.......

Oblong
01-24-2008, 09:24 PM
In the 3 years Maggs has been in Detroit he's come across to me as a fan as someone who is very quiet, laid back, even keel, and possibly shy. Maybe he didn't think it was that big of a deal because it's Jose Canseco. Maybe he didn't want there to be a circus to distract his performance. If he were nervous about it or concerned don't you think his play would have been affected by it? He had a career year. Maybe he didn't care either way what people thought.

Nevertheless, the only players I'd be surprised to find out used something would be guys like Smoltz and Frank Thomas, those who have been outspoken against it. Those are the only two I can think of right now. Otherwise they're all fair game. If you told me a majority of MLB players from 1999-2005 used the stuff it wouldn't shock me. Considering how many are now getting prescriptions for ADHD compared to the pre-testing tells me they hvent let up in finding ways around the system.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-24-2008, 09:52 PM
Yet for some cash he will leave your name out of the book? I think it dents his credibility a bit.

I agree. If Canseco had the goods on Magglio he would have included it in his first book.

I'm waiting to see what the new book contains but I'm guessing there isn't much there. The notion that Canseco would attempt to extort money in exchange for leaving a ballplayer's name out of it makes me even more skeptical of whatever value the follow-up effort might contain.

I've defended Canseco a lot around here but I never doubted he was basically a spiteful jerk at heart. He's running true to form.
:cool:

FloridaTigers
01-24-2008, 11:31 PM
Better nutrition - I'm sure. Take a look at Sheffield too. Them lovable kitties...

Just for the record...From the Mitchell Report


2004 Tigers...Vina? Carlos Pena? Ivan Rodriguez? Nook Logan?

Funny - the Tigers management staff never submitted this evidence of criminal activity to the law. Why not? Oh - year - that's right - like many other franchises, the Detroit Tigers knowingly turned a blind eye to criminal activity going on in their own clubhouse.

Douchebags

Jason Johnson was a Tiger in 2004, the diabetic. That could very well explain that situation right there.

FloridaTigers
01-24-2008, 11:34 PM
If you think the Sox have encouoraged this behaviour in the same level as the Tigers have - that's your choice. I believe Canseco was the only real black mark this franchise has on its record on this issue. In my eyes, Detroit, Texas, Baltimore and Oakland have gone well beyond most other organizations.

Every team had its fair share of cheaters. If you think the White Sox didn't turn a blind eye to it at the time as well, then you're just being ignorant.

voodoochile
01-24-2008, 11:42 PM
Every team had its fair share of cheaters. If you think the White Sox didn't turn a blind eye to it at the time as well, then you're just being ignorant.

:troll:

areilly
01-24-2008, 11:53 PM
Every team had its fair share of cheaters. If you think the White Sox didn't turn a blind eye to it at the time as well, then you're just being ignorant.

:troll:


The people in charge of the White Sox organization nearly stole the team away from the city, blackmailed the state into paying for its new stadium, spearheaded the cancellation of the 1994 World Series which the Sox had a very real shot of winning, and publicly gave up on the team mid-1997.

You can't seriously believe they'd stick up for the integrity of the game in the same era by taking a stand against PED's.

MUsoxfan
01-24-2008, 11:57 PM
:troll:


He's right.

http://www.canseconet.com/which_bat.jpg

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 12:03 AM
The people in charge of the White Sox organization nearly stole the team away from the city, blackmailed the state into paying for its new stadium, spearheaded the cancellation of the 1994 World Series which the Sox had a very real shot of winning, and publicly gave up on the team mid-1997.

You can't seriously believe they'd stick up for the integrity of the game in the same era by taking a stand against PED's.

You can't seriously believe some Tigers fans is here making outrageous claims and isn't simply trolling can you?

It's pretty simple. Tigers Suck. See, I can say that all day and night. Tigers cheat. See, once again, no problem.

Do I believe the Sox are the only team in baseball who don't have a single PED user from the last 10 years or so? No. I am sure there have been some, but that doesn't mean it's okay for some fan of the Tigers to come and start calling Sox fans ignorant in a lame effort to turn the attention away from the fact that their team is loaded with cheaters. Defending it with a "Hey, we had a diabetic on the squad that year" is simply laughable and in the end, it's trolling, but go ahead and defend the troll if it's more important to attack Reinsy for you...:rolleyes:

FloridaTigers
01-25-2008, 12:59 AM
You can't seriously believe some Tigers fans is here making outrageous claims and isn't simply trolling can you?

It's pretty simple. Tigers Suck. See, I can say that all day and night. Tigers cheat. See, once again, no problem.

Do I believe the Sox are the only team in baseball who don't have a single PED user from the last 10 years or so? No. I am sure there have been some, but that doesn't mean it's okay for some fan of the Tigers to come and start calling Sox fans ignorant in a lame effort to turn the attention away from the fact that their team is loaded with cheaters. Defending it with a "Hey, we had a diabetic on the squad that year" is simply laughable and in the end, it's trolling, but go ahead and defend the troll if it's more important to attack Reinsy for you...:rolleyes:

I honestly don't see how this is trolling? I didn't come here and insult all Sox fans. I just said it was ignorant of the one poster. I'm just saying, I belie've that the White Sox weren't clean at all in the 90's. No team was clean. I don't think the Tigers weren't clean. You claim the Tigers have been loaded with cheaters. What makes you think the White Sox HAVEN'T been loaded either?

areilly
01-25-2008, 01:00 AM
You can't seriously believe some Tigers fans is here making outrageous claims and isn't simply trolling can you?

It's pretty simple. Tigers Suck. See, I can say that all day and night. Tigers cheat. See, once again, no problem.

Do I believe the Sox are the only team in baseball who don't have a single PED user from the last 10 years or so? No. I am sure there have been some, but that doesn't mean it's okay for some fan of the Tigers to come and start calling Sox fans ignorant in a lame effort to turn the attention away from the fact that their team is loaded with cheaters. Defending it with a "Hey, we had a diabetic on the squad that year" is simply laughable and in the end, it's trolling, but go ahead and defend the troll if it's more important to attack Reinsy for you...:rolleyes:

FT's posts are below, and I guess I just don't read them the same way you do. I agree the Johnson post is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than a lot of the blind faith people around here put in the Sox.

But whatever, the fact that we as fans don't know exactly how many actual juicers there were/are in the league makes absolutely none of us qualified to make any assessments on what any organization did about PED's. Not a one. For all we know, Tony Phillips and Dave Martinez were partying down with a garbage bag full of syringes in that magical summer of '96.

Every team is guilty. The Sox having fewer outed juicers only makes them "cleaner" than the Tigers, A's, or O's in the sense that a guy who's robbed 5 people has a cleaner conscience than a guy who's robbed 50.


Every team had its fair share of cheaters. If you think the White Sox didn't turn a blind eye to it at the time as well, then you're just being ignorant.

Jason Johnson was a Tiger in 2004, the diabetic. That could very well explain that situation right there.

FedEx227
01-25-2008, 01:12 AM
I agree. If Canseco had the goods on Magglio he would have included it in his first book.

I'm waiting to see what the new book contains but I'm guessing there isn't much there. The notion that Canseco would attempt to extort money in exchange for leaving a ballplayer's name out of it makes me even more skeptical of whatever value the follow-up effort might contain.

I've defended Canseco a lot around here but I never doubted he was basically a spiteful jerk at heart. He's running true to form.
:cool:

If I recall his editor jumped off the new project citing that Canseco probably didn't have the dirt he claimed.

Why can this guy NOT allow himself to have some decent public image, just when people give him the slightest amount of credit he stoops to this crap.

Once a scumbag, always a scumbag.

Sockinchisox
01-25-2008, 01:20 AM
Canseco is going to name Ordonez according to De Luca who says Canseco told USA Today that he was going to name him.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/759067,CST-SPT-maggs25.article

Canseco told USA Today that Ordonez's name will appear in the upcoming book, titled Vindicated. Asked what evidence he had, Canseco said: ''I can't tell you. You will have to read the book.''

Viva Medias B's
01-25-2008, 09:25 AM
In DeLuca's article, Canseco's comments to USA Today imply that MLB and/or Ordóñez conspired to undermine his book.

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 09:38 AM
I honestly don't see how this is trolling? I didn't come here and insult all Sox fans. I just said it was ignorant of the one poster. I'm just saying, I belie've that the White Sox weren't clean at all in the 90's. No team was clean. I don't think the Tigers weren't clean. You claim the Tigers have been loaded with cheaters. What makes you think the White Sox HAVEN'T been loaded either?

Aside from Canseco name me one who's been caught. I think Schoenweiss got named in the Mitchell report. Now Magglio's name is swirling.

At least the Sox aren't actively pursuing roid boys as near as we can tell. That is unlike you folks.

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 09:40 AM
FT's posts are below, and I guess I just don't read them the same way you do. I agree the Johnson post is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than a lot of the blind faith people around here put in the Sox.

But whatever, the fact that we as fans don't know exactly how many actual juicers there were/are in the league makes absolutely none of us qualified to make any assessments on what any organization did about PED's. Not a one. For all we know, Tony Phillips and Dave Martinez were partying down with a garbage bag full of syringes in that magical summer of '96.

Every team is guilty. The Sox having fewer outed juicers only makes them "cleaner" than the Tigers, A's, or O's in the sense that a guy who's robbed 5 people has a cleaner conscience than a guy who's robbed 50.

Yeah, but what about the bank robber's friends? If you have a buddy you find out robbed 5 banks and you distance yourself from him, that's one thing. If you meet someone who you learn early on has robbed 50 banks and it makes you want to be closer to him, that's another...

FloridaTigers
01-25-2008, 03:28 PM
Aside from Canseco name me one who's been caught. I think Schoenweiss got named in the Mitchell report. Now Magglio's name is swirling.

At least the Sox aren't actively pursuing roid boys as near as we can tell. That is unlike you folks.

Does it really matter? I'll gladly persue former roiders if it means we win a World Series this year. That doesn't mean they still use them. I'm happy with Sheffield and without Pudge, the team wouldn't be what it is now. Theres a difference between persuing former roiders and people who still juice. There aren't many people, if any at all, using steroids, so how can the Tigers actively persue any at the moment?

If Canseco had legit dirt on Magglio, he would've been named in the first book. And who cares? One book can't tarnish anyone's legacy. If Magglio did roid, he was just one of the hundreds. Time to move on.

Soxfanspcu11
01-25-2008, 03:41 PM
Isin't this a fairly good example of Extortion?? :?:

doublem23
01-25-2008, 04:24 PM
Isin't this a fairly good example of Extortion?? :?:

If it's true

voodoochile
01-25-2008, 04:32 PM
Does it really matter? I'll gladly persue former roiders if it means we win a World Series this year. That doesn't mean they still use them. I'm happy with Sheffield and without Pudge, the team wouldn't be what it is now. Theres a difference between persuing former roiders and people who still juice. There aren't many people, if any at all, using steroids, so how can the Tigers actively persue any at the moment?

If Canseco had legit dirt on Magglio, he would've been named in the first book. And who cares? One book can't tarnish anyone's legacy. If Magglio did roid, he was just one of the hundreds. Time to move on.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! No, just HGH. You can have all the cheaters, former and present, I'd rather lose with clean players than win with dirty ones.

Once a cheat, always a cheat. They are just finding new ways to cheat and if you don't believe that, there's this lovely bridge over the Neuse river here in North Carolina, several actually. I own them all. I will gladly sell them to you for a mere pittance...:rolleyes:

jabrch
01-25-2008, 05:19 PM
You can't seriously believe some Tigers fans is here making outrageous claims and isn't simply trolling can you?

It's pretty simple. Tigers Suck. See, I can say that all day and night. Tigers cheat. See, once again, no problem.

Do I believe the Sox are the only team in baseball who don't have a single PED user from the last 10 years or so? No. I am sure there have been some, but that doesn't mean it's okay for some fan of the Tigers to come and start calling Sox fans ignorant in a lame effort to turn the attention away from the fact that their team is loaded with cheaters. Defending it with a "Hey, we had a diabetic on the squad that year" is simply laughable and in the end, it's trolling, but go ahead and defend the troll if it's more important to attack Reinsy for you...:rolleyes:


Exactly...well said VC.

The Tigers are dirty - and there is ample factual evidence to prove it. It doesn't surprise me that their fans come up with silly excuses for it. Certainly not the trolls that come here to for some reason entertain anyone who gives a damn with Tiger talk. But it is another thing for our fans to agree with that non-sense.

jabrch
01-25-2008, 05:21 PM
Isin't this a fairly good example of Extortion?? :?:

If it were true - it would likely be. But Magglio is probably wise to avoid testifying under oath. He could win one battle (the extortion charge) but lose the war (either the slander/liber fight - or worse a perjury charge)

Nelson Foxtrot
01-27-2008, 03:25 AM
I could see Boras and Ordonez telling the press frabricated stories about the calls to smear Canseco's credibility before he attacks Maggs, but the fact that Boras called the FBI makes me think they're telling the truth about this. One question I have is if Ordonez did sue Canseco or press charges, would his alleged steroid use really be relevant to the case? I'd imagine a good lawyer could keep those questions from being asked, since it wouldn't matter whether Canseco allegedly extorted money to avoid revealing the truth or to avoid revealing a lie. Could somebody with knowledge on the subject clarify?

voodoochile
01-27-2008, 09:48 AM
I could see Boras and Ordonez telling the press frabricated stories about the calls to smear Canseco's credibility before he attacks Maggs, but the fact that Boras called the FBI makes me think they're telling the truth about this. One question I have is if Ordonez did sue Canseco or press charges, would his alleged steroid use really be relevant to the case? I'd imagine a good lawyer could keep those questions from being asked, since it wouldn't matter whether Canseco allegedly extorted money to avoid revealing the truth or to avoid revealing a lie. Could somebody with knowledge on the subject clarify?

Yeah, Boras called and then Maggs said, "forget it, no big deal." So it really looks like their trying to play both sides of the fence. "Hey we called the FBI."

The agent is advocating for his client and the client is then stopping the investigation. It's trying to have your cake and eat it too from a public perception perspective.

Sox
01-27-2008, 02:42 PM
Isin't this a fairly good example of Extortion?? :?:

Extortion/blackmail its all relative and I was thinking exactly the same thing.....