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Rockabilly
01-23-2008, 09:25 AM
Would any of you make this trade. I heard a report that this trade might happen in spring training. A SF Giants beat writer was on the radio here in CA and mention a possibility of the Giants getting Crede..

Has anyone heard this rumor in Chicago..

champagne030
01-23-2008, 09:34 AM
Would any of you make this trade. I heard a report that this trade might happen in spring training. A SF Giants beat writer was on the radio here in CA and mention a possibility of the Giants getting Crede..

Has anyone heard this rumor in Chicago..

There's an article in the Cubune today saying KW is not finished. It mentions Crede is a bargain to teams looking for a good fielding 3rd baseman with some pop if he's healthy. The article then mentions that talks between the Giants and Pedro Feliz have stalled. They then mention the Giants are listening to offers for Lowry. It doesn't exactly spell it out, but the inference is there.

FWLIW, Kenny states in the article that he doesn't anticipate any changes to the rotation, but "he's continuing to look".

eriqjaffe
01-23-2008, 09:38 AM
Considering that I'm just about 100% sure that Crede won't be around by opening day, I would consider Lowry to be a very good return for him. I'd much rather see Lowry as the #4 starter, and then have #5 be between Danks & Floyd (again) than see both Danks and Floyd in the rotation full-time.

The Immigrant
01-23-2008, 09:40 AM
Would any of you make this trade.

In a friggin' heartbeat.

WhiteSox5187
01-23-2008, 09:44 AM
In a friggin' heartbeat.
Me too...my question is, why would the Giants?

eriqjaffe
01-23-2008, 09:44 AM
Me too...my question is, why would the Giants?'Cause Rowand's lonely?

rdwj
01-23-2008, 11:28 AM
Yes - and I LOVE Crede. He's obviously not part of the team's plans, so you may as well get something for him

Sockinchisox
01-23-2008, 11:29 AM
If the Giants are that stupid, of course.

D. TODD
01-23-2008, 11:39 AM
I've saw this possibility thrown out there a couple of weeks ago. I think from a S.F. paper. It's a long way off, but if Crede shows he's healthy, I could see it happening with maybe a throw in guy to go along with Joe to Frisco.

chaerulez
01-23-2008, 11:43 AM
Lowry has some control issues and aside from 2005, he doesn't strikeout players as much as I would like, but that trade would be a steal for the Sox. Crede will probably report to spring training for the Sox. They will showcase he is healthy. Then he will get traded.

jabrch
01-23-2008, 11:52 AM
Lowry is locked down - cheaply for 3 or 4 more years. He's a fine back end of a rotation starter. This wouold be an absolute steal. I can't see the Giants doing this. If they would, I'm sure Williams would be all over it.

We'd have 3 LHP in the rotation - but I'm not sure that's a big deal.

thedudeabides
01-23-2008, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't be too excited about this. I think he might get hit hard pitching in the cell. He had a 1.00 K/BB rate last year. And he was certainly helped by pitching in a very pitcher friendly park and division. The last three years he has had a 4.87 ERA away from home.

If Danks is going to be in the rotation, I'm not sure how I would feel about having three lefties, and I would prefer giving John a shot considering he's 5 years younger than Lowry.

Lip Man 1
01-23-2008, 12:49 PM
Personally it's not Danks I'm concerned about....it's Jose (Age Unknown) Contreras and Gavin (Deer In The Headlights) Floyd.

I think the odds are very, very long that both of those guys (plus Danks) are all going to pitch effectively over a full season.

I don't want a repeat of the insanity that took place in 2003 and 2004 when the Sox couldn't find a fifth starter to save their souls.

Get someone NOW, just for insurance if nothing else.

Lip

kaufsox
01-23-2008, 01:02 PM
I would make that trade and as others have said, why would the Giants? my question to the board (yes?) is what would you offer along with Crede to get Lowry?

Tragg
01-23-2008, 01:23 PM
What sort of draft choices would we get for Crede?
Trading any real talent for back of the rotation starters isn't a great practice, in general. Crede has 1 year left and he's a risk, so okay - but no real prospects for this guy, please. 4 ERA, high WHIP. Nothing special or hard to find.
Just because a player isn't in someone's plans doesn't mean you should give him away - Thome wasn't in the Phillies plans, yet they didn't give him away.

Tekijawa
01-23-2008, 01:28 PM
http://www.poster.net/wyle-noah/wyle-noah-photo-noah-wyle-6221759.jpg?

doublem23
01-23-2008, 01:43 PM
I'm going to have to play Devil's Advocate here... Noah Lowry? He had a nice year in '05, but the last two years have been mediocre. Last year, in 156 innings of work his walk/strike-out ratio was 1:1. 87 BB, 87 K. That **** will fly in the National League when your home park is the size of an asteroid crater, it will not pass in the American League, where he will have to go up against some very powerful offenses.

If Lowry came for nothing, I'd be willing to take a flyer on him, but Joe Crede is still a valuable asset. Just giving him away for someone who *might* compete with Danks and Floyd for a spot in the rotation is foolish and short-sighted, especially when he could probably be packaged and bring in some actual good MLB talent.

Just say no to Noah.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lowryno01.shtml

WhiffleBall
01-23-2008, 01:47 PM
Interesting quote from the trib article:

"Crede's $5.15 million contract is very affordable to teams seeking a sure-handed third baseman with run-producing ability. Negotiations between San Francisco and Pedro Feliz has stagnated, and new Giants senior adviser of player personnel Ron Schueler was the Sox's GM during Crede's first five minor-league seasons (1996-2000)."

raven1
01-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Starters are at such a premium that I would expect the Giants to ask for another minor leaguer or 2 in addition to Crede - maybe a pitching prospect like Sisco.

WhiteOut05
01-23-2008, 02:24 PM
Starters are at such a premium that I would expect the Giants to ask for another minor leaguer or 2 in addition to Crede - maybe a pitching prospect like Sisco.


and that completely would break our hearts :D:

JUribe1989
01-23-2008, 02:30 PM
A 27 year old with a 3.92 ERA and a 14-8 record for a guy that is coming off back surgery and hasn't played in seven months? The Giants would be insane to make that trade.

Huisj
01-23-2008, 02:33 PM
A 27 year old with a 3.92 ERA and a 14-8 record for a guy that is coming off back surgery and hasn't played in seven months? The Giants would be insane to make that trade.

His stats besides record and ERA are pretty scary though. 1.55 baserunners per inning? hmmm. That seems rather high.

WhiteOut05
01-23-2008, 02:43 PM
Lowry had a 3.92 ERA in the National League and a pitcher's park.
His average against isn't that impressive (not horrible either)
And he has as many walks as strikeouts. Sure he doesn't give up that many HR's (54 in the last three years), but you'd have to think that stat would increase at the Cell.

He wouldn't be a horrible pick up, but I'd rather use Joe in a package that nets us a Top-3 guy. I'd like to see the Sox-Angels talks pick back up because I think they can offer more in the pitching department with guys like Weaver (least touchable), Joe Saunders, Ervin Santana, and Nick Adenhart.

We need a guy who can give us a one-two-THREE punch with Buerhle and Javvy. Weaver would do that, Bedard would; you all know the big names and usual suspects. But I think a big time starter is a big piece of the puzzle that is missing. I really like this roster, but for me another starter is key.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-23-2008, 02:49 PM
Lowry had a 3.92 ERA in the National League and a pitcher's park.
His average against isn't that impressive (not horrible either)
And he has as many walks as strikeouts. Sure he doesn't give up that many HR's (54 in the last three years), but you'd have to think that stat would increase at the Cell.

He wouldn't be a horrible pick up, but I'd rather use Joe in a package that nets us a Top-3 guy. I'd like to see the Sox-Angels talks pick back up because I think they can offer more in the pitching department with guys like Weaver (least touchable), Joe Saunders, Ervin Santana, and Nick Adenhart.

We need a guy who can give us a one-two-THREE punch with Buerhle and Javvy. Weaver would do that, Bedard would; you all know the big names and usual suspects. But I think a big time starter is a big piece of the puzzle that is missing. I really like this roster, but for me another starter is key.

There's no way Crede is gonna get us Weaver, Sauders, Santana, or Adenhart. Considering we have no prospects left to trade, the Sox would almost have to use Fields/Konerko to get a SP with that calliber.

cbrownson13
01-23-2008, 02:50 PM
Lowry had a 3.92 ERA in the National League and a pitcher's park.
His average against isn't that impressive (not horrible either)
And he has as many walks as strikeouts. Sure he doesn't give up that many HR's (54 in the last three years), but you'd have to think that stat would increase at the Cell.

He wouldn't be a horrible pick up, but I'd rather use Joe in a package that nets us a Top-3 guy. I'd like to see the Sox-Angels talks pick back up because I think they can offer more in the pitching department with guys like Weaver (least touchable), Joe Saunders, Ervin Santana, and Nick Adenhart.

We need a guy who can give us a one-two-THREE punch with Buerhle and Javvy. Weaver would do that, Bedard would; you all know the big names and usual suspects. But I think a big time starter is a big piece of the puzzle that is missing. I really like this roster, but for me another starter is key.

I'm not sure the Sox have the tools to get a one, two, or three pitcher. Konerko and Crede included.

Baltimore has MUCH better options out there for Bedard. Weaver isn't going anywhere. The best we could hope for is probably Ervin Santana or Lowry.

WhiteOut05
01-23-2008, 02:55 PM
There's no way Crede is gonna get us Weaver, Sauders, Santana, or Adenhart. Considering we have no prospects left to trade, the Sox would almost have to use Fields/Konerko to get a SP with that calliber.

I didn't mean Joe alone in the Angel trade, should have clarified that i guess.

Joe and Paulie could get us Santana/Saunders and Adenhart in my opinion. Paulie alone is worth two decent guys.

And I know Weaver and Bedard are unattainable but it's nice to think about

oeo
01-23-2008, 03:26 PM
No thanks. Bring him over to the AL Central (let alone the Cell), and his stats will skyrocket.

kittle42
01-23-2008, 03:28 PM
Starters are at such a premium that I would expect the Giants to ask for another minor leaguer or 2 in addition to Crede - maybe a pitching prospect like Sisco.

Sisco is not a pitching prospect. Well, he is, in the same way Crash Davis was a catching prospect.

turners56
01-23-2008, 04:03 PM
'Cause Rowand's lonely?


Rowand and Crede are good friends...so maybe? I would like this deal, anything to get Contreras or Floyd out of the rotation for opening day is a victory. If Lowry lowered those walks, he'd be a great pitcher.

oeo
01-23-2008, 04:15 PM
If Lowry lowered those walks, he'd be a great pitcher.

We have enough of those guys already...do we really need another?

WhiteSox5187
01-23-2008, 04:16 PM
Sisco is not a pitching prospect. Well, he is, in the same way Crash Davis was a catching prospect.
He certainly did something for Nuke Laloosh!

turners56
01-23-2008, 04:17 PM
We have enough of those guys already...do we really need another?

Lowry is actually proven, he's had 2 good years under his belt out of the 3 years that he's pitched. Danks and Floyd on the other hand have yet to have a respectable season, there's your difference.

oeo
01-23-2008, 04:19 PM
Lowry is actually proven, he's had 2 good years under his belt out of the 3 years that he's pitched. Danks and Floyd on the other hand have yet to have a respectable season, there's your difference.


He's proven in the National League. Let's see how he does pitching against offensive powerhouses like Detroit, Cleveland, Boston, and New York.

turners56
01-23-2008, 04:21 PM
He's proven in the National League. Let's see how he does pitching against offensive powerhouses like Detroit, Cleveland, Boston, and New York.


Yea, the NL is better than the AL, but does that mean he's gonna have a 6 ERA and lose half of his starts? Because that's what Jose Contreras is and what Gavin Floyd MIGHT be. Lowry has similar stuff to Mark Buehrle, who knows...maybe Buehrle will give him a pointer or two on working faster and challenging hitters.

sircaffey1
01-23-2008, 06:39 PM
He's proven in the National League. Let's see how he does pitching against offensive powerhouses like Detroit, Cleveland, Boston, and New York.

Lowry career vs AL:

68.0 IP, 72 H, 27 ER, 31 BB, 44 K 3.57 ERA

oeo
01-23-2008, 06:52 PM
Lowry career vs AL:

68.0 IP, 72 H, 27 ER, 31 BB, 44 K 3.57 ERA

That's a sample size (and a year-by-year one, at that). When the scouting report develops, and they become familiar with you, those numbers change.

BTW, I'm not questioning a deal like this. Right now, I would take anything for Crede. What I question is whether he would really be a major upgrade in our rotation like a lot of you feel. He's 27, so he's pretty much what you see is what you get...I don't know that he can put up a sub-3 ERA in the AL Central (actually, I bet he won't).

The Immigrant
01-23-2008, 07:08 PM
I don't know that he can put up a sub-3 ERA in the AL Central (actually, I bet he won't).

I assume you meant a sub-4 ERA.

I think he could post a sub-5 ERA which, based on what I've seen of Floyd, would make Lowry a better 5th starter option than the one we have now.

sircaffey1
01-23-2008, 07:15 PM
That's a sample size (and a year-by-year one, at that). When the scouting report develops, and they become familiar with you, those numbers change.

BTW, I'm not questioning a deal like this. Right now, I would take anything for Crede. What I question is whether he would really be a major upgrade in our rotation like a lot of you feel. He's 27, so he's pretty much what you see is what you get...I don't know that he can put up a sub-3 ERA in the AL Central (actually, I bet he won't).

Age 27 is just entering his prime years. In fact, historically, age 27 is the breakout age.

I love how people have confidence in Floyd who is the model of sucking thusfar in his career, and have zero confidence in a pitcher who's pitched 620 quality Major League innings just because they were in the NL.

doublem23
01-23-2008, 07:17 PM
Sisco is not a pitching prospect. Well, he is, in the same way Crash Davis was a catching prospect.

Most career MiLB homers is nothing to shake a stick at. :tongue:

SoxNation05
01-23-2008, 07:17 PM
Crede and Danks for Lowry and Rajai Davis

Daver
01-23-2008, 07:21 PM
If you really think Crede has any trade value before the start of the seson, you're kidding yourself.

doublem23
01-23-2008, 07:22 PM
I love how people have confidence in Floyd who is the model of sucking thusfar in his career, and have zero confidence in a pitcher who's pitched 620 quality Major League innings just because they were in the NL.

Is anybody really confident in Floyd, outside of the Sox brass? We're only more confident with him than we are with anyone else fighting for the 5th starters job (assuming you place Danks and The Count ahead of him). The fact that the Sox are probably actively looking to acquire another starter probably tells you how confident they really are, too.

doublem23
01-23-2008, 07:22 PM
If you really think Crede has any trade value before the start of the seson, you're kidding yourself.

Carlos Silva signed a contract for something like $12 million. All it takes is one sucker!

The Immigrant
01-23-2008, 07:32 PM
If you really think Crede has any trade value before the start of the seson, you're kidding yourself.

The A's traded Mark Kotsay this offseason and his back is in worse shape than Crede's. He also plays a less valuable position from a trade standpoint and makes more money.

Crede doesn't have a LOT of trade value right now, but to say he has none is just wrong.

Daver
01-23-2008, 07:40 PM
The A's traded Mark Kotsay this offseason and his back is in worse shape than Crede's. He also plays a less valuable position from a trade standpoint and makes more money.

Crede doesn't have a LOT of trade value right now, but to say he has none is just wrong.


A batboy and a beer vendor are not considered value.

oeo
01-23-2008, 07:58 PM
I assume you meant a sub-4 ERA.

Whoops...yeah, that's what I meant.

I think he could post a sub-5 ERA which, based on what I've seen of Floyd, would make Lowry a better 5th starter option than the one we have now.We'll see. I see a lateral move there.

Age 27 is just entering his prime years. In fact, historically, age 27 is the breakout age.

I love how people have confidence in Floyd who is the model of sucking thusfar in his career, and have zero confidence in a pitcher who's pitched 620 quality Major League innings just because they were in the NL.

I didn't say I have zero confidence. I said I don't think he would be a major improvement...read it. I think if Lowry was going to signs of being a big time pitcher, he would have done it already. Instead, he hasn't even been able to put a full season the last two years.

He's entering his 'prime' which I see as about a 4.70 ERA in the AL Central. Nothing to write home about.

cards press box
01-23-2008, 08:14 PM
It's hard to believe but we're only a few weeks away from spring training. The Giants and other teams might be waiting for a few spring games to be played before deciding whether to trade for Crede. Noah Lowry looks like he has potential to be a tough lefty. Admitedly, I haven't seen Lowry pitch very often but, believe it or not, according to baseball-reference.com, one of his comps is Erik Bedard.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lowryno01.shtml

sircaffey1
01-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Whoops...yeah, that's what I meant.

We'll see. I see a lateral move there.



I didn't say I have zero confidence. I said I don't think he would be a major improvement...read it. I think if Lowry was going to signs of being a big time pitcher, he would have done it already. Instead, he hasn't even been able to put a full season the last two years.

He's entering his 'prime' which I see as about a 4.70 ERA in the AL Central. Nothing to write home about.

I guess I'll ignore 2005 (204.2 IP, 193 H, 76 BB, 172 SO, 3.78 ERA). Take away his last 2 starts from last season where he was experiencing elbow problems before being shut down for the rest of the season and his ERA is 3.34. He's certainly shown signs of being a solid starter. No one said big time SP. They just said better than our current 5th SP options for next year. I guess it all depends on how you personally view Floyd and Danks as there isn't much to go off for them.

Even if it's a lateral move in performance, it's a move up in stability. Floyd hasn't even shown the ability to pitch at the Major League level. Not even in the NL.

champagne030
01-23-2008, 08:26 PM
Is anybody really confident in Floyd, outside of the Sox brass? We're only more confident with him than we are with anyone else fighting for the 5th starters job (assuming you place Danks and The Count ahead of him). The fact that the Sox are probably actively looking to acquire another starter probably tells you how confident they really are, too.

I thought 29 other teams would kill do have Floyd in their rotation? :tongue:

A. Cavatica
01-23-2008, 09:16 PM
Crede is a spare part who will be gone by midsummer, so any legitimate major league starter is a great return.

I just hope the Giants don't ask for Michael Dubee after we gave up Iguchi to get him.

Noneck
01-23-2008, 10:14 PM
A batboy and a beer vendor are not considered value.
A batboy no but a beer vendor is a revenue producer so he has value.

rowand33
01-24-2008, 12:07 AM
I'll take Lowry for Crede.

Only WSI complains about the posibility of acquiring a guy that went 14-8 with a 3.92 ERA last season.

Even if that ERA translated to a mid 4 ERA in the AL, he'd still be a fine 5th starter.

If Lowry isn't acceptable return for Crede... what do you think we can get for him?

drewcifer
01-24-2008, 12:31 AM
Crede for Lowry is a steal.

$5.1 at one year for a starter who's owed what - $12M'ish over the next 3 and has shown a trend favoring GOs as of late?

Lowry is like 27, I think.

It would be a fleecing straight up.

BadBobbyJenks
01-24-2008, 02:44 AM
KW: We hear you are interested in Joe Crede, what do you have to offer?

Sabean: Noah Low...

KW: Deal no take backs.

KenBerryGrab
01-24-2008, 10:55 AM
This is from today's Rotoworld:


"The Mercury News reports that the Giants will monitor Joe Crede this spring, and if healthy, there's a 'good chance' they could acquire him for a pitcher.

"The Giants have reportedly been shopping Matt Cain, who would be a solid fit in the back of a Chicago rotation that is starved for experience. Giants special assistant Ron Schueler, the former White Sox GM, has been pushing the team to acquire Crede."

---

Man, Cain would be a good get.

spiffie
01-24-2008, 11:00 AM
This is from today's Rotoworld:


"The Mercury News reports that the Giants will monitor Joe Crede this spring, and if healthy, there's a 'good chance' they could acquire him for a pitcher.

"The Giants have reportedly been shopping Matt Cain, who would be a solid fit in the back of a Chicago rotation that is starved for experience. Giants special assistant Ron Schueler, the former White Sox GM, has been pushing the team to acquire Crede."

---

Man, Cain would be a good get.
SOLD! I'd make that deal in a heartbeat.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 11:02 AM
There's no way we get Cain for Crede... I can't imagine it.

spiffie
01-24-2008, 11:03 AM
There's no way we get Cain for Crede... I can't imagine it.
If they'd like we can gladly throw in Gavin Floyd to sweeten the deal.

sox1970
01-24-2008, 11:05 AM
There's no way we get Cain for Crede... I can't imagine it.

Is every trade in your world 1 for 1?

KenBerryGrab
01-24-2008, 11:09 AM
I don't think it's possible, but I posted that rumor as it's not from a Chicago outlet.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Is every trade in your world 1 for 1?

I don't see anything we can throw in with Crede (short of players who are in our starting lineup) that would justify it.

Throw-ins don't bridge THAT large a gap. It was one thing when we were talking about Lowry - who is a back end guy. This is well above and beyond that. Can is a middle rotation guy with upside to be an OK #2.

What are you proposing we'd throw in that has significant value enough to bridge this gap?

D. TODD
01-24-2008, 11:13 AM
Cain would be even better then Lowry. I do think Crede would be a nice pick up for the Giants, if he shows he is reasonably healthy, this team seems like a great fit as a trade partner. So hopefully Kenny will maximize any opportunity to get a starting pitcher, and maybe a leadoff type hitter. Maybe MacDougal or another younger arm can be sent as well after the Dotel signing.

thedudeabides
01-24-2008, 11:46 AM
I don't think it's possible, but I posted that rumor as it's not from a Chicago outlet.

I wouldn't put it past Sabean. He loves veteran players and has made some bad trades in the past.

Craig Grebeck
01-24-2008, 11:49 AM
MAYBE if we add Danks and Konerko to the deal they'd give us Cain.

soxinem1
01-24-2008, 11:55 AM
I've saw this possibility thrown out there a couple of weeks ago. I think from a S.F. paper. It's a long way off, but if Crede shows he's healthy, I could see it happening with maybe a throw in guy to go along with Joe to Frisco.

Like Uribe??:smile:

Chicken Dinner
01-24-2008, 12:24 PM
Matt Cain would be what Kenny needs to target. :smile:

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_8063140

D. TODD
01-24-2008, 12:27 PM
Matt Cain would be what Kenny needs to target. :smile:

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_8063140 If possible make a multi player package along with Crede for Cain. FAR less chance for this, but hell give it a shot, if there is even a glimmer of hope before dealing less for a Lowry type.

Tragg
01-24-2008, 12:31 PM
Never mind - thought yall were talking abut Lowry sweeteners.

Hagan
01-24-2008, 12:31 PM
I would trade crede for cain in a heartbeat. I think Cain is going to become a super star pitcher in a few years. Last year in the beginning of the season he was dominant.

D. TODD
01-24-2008, 12:36 PM
I would trade crede for cain in a heartbeat. I think Cain is going to become a super star pitcher in a few years. Last year in the beginning of the season he was dominant. It should take a hell of a lot more then Crede for Cain though. Lowry seems more reasonable depending on Joe's back.

Flight #24
01-24-2008, 01:02 PM
FWLIW, Rotoworld has been reporting that Cain was on the block through much of the offseason, but the reports centered on Alex Rios as the potential return for Cain.

They also reported that after signing Rowand Sabean said Cain & Lincecum were off the market. Now he's supposedly in play for a year of Joe Crede? :rolleyes:

IMO it's probably Lowry. It fits Kenny's "young pitcher that under our coaching will blossom" mindset that was behind the acquisition of Sisco, Masset, Floyd, etc.

Rockabilly
01-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Alot of talk here in SF that Crede will be joining the Giants this spring. I don't think it will be for Cain unless KW adds someone else....

I really think its going to be for Lowry..

spiffie
01-24-2008, 01:13 PM
I wonder if something like Crede, Danks, Poreda would work for Cain. They get two young pitchers and a 3B for him, so at least they get a solid return for a good pitcher. I doubt it would get there, but maybe that starts the negotiating.

Jjav829
01-24-2008, 01:37 PM
Matt Cain for Joe Crede? :roflmao: Why stop there? Why not Lincecum instead? Hell, how about both! We could even throw in Gavin Floyd. I'm sure the Giants want him, since they are one of the "other 29 teams." :rolleyes:

I can't even see the Giants giving up Lowry for Crede, much less Cain.

It should be noted that Cain's name was only brought up by Rotoworld, and was not included in the article.

sox1970
01-24-2008, 01:45 PM
I wonder if something like Crede, Danks, Poreda would work for Cain. They get two young pitchers and a 3B for him, so at least they get a solid return for a good pitcher. I doubt it would get there, but maybe that starts the negotiating.

Not allowed to trade Poreda until June. Draft picks have to stay with their team for one year.

I'm not familiar with Cain too much other than his numbers. He didn't have a good record last year, but did have 22 quality starts.

Maybe Crede, Egbert, and one of the castoff bullpen guys--Sisco or Masset.

doublem23
01-24-2008, 01:48 PM
Matt Cain for Joe Crede? :roflmao: Why stop there? Why not Lincecum instead? Hell, how about both! We could even throw in Gavin Floyd. I'm sure the Giants want him, since they are one of the "other 29 teams." :rolleyes:

I can't even see the Giants giving up Lowry for Crede, much less Cain.

It should be noted that Cain's name was only brought up by Rotoworld, and was not included in the article.

Oh, let them be. Hope springs eternal this time of year.

jabrch
01-24-2008, 02:04 PM
I wonder if something like Crede, Danks, Poreda would work for Cain.

Can't trade Poreda yet.

thedudeabides
01-24-2008, 02:30 PM
I'm pretty sure the writer was mistaking Cain for Lowry, but I'm sure Giants fans have to be worked up reading this. After all Sabean has done some dumb things in the past. :D:

He seems to love to acquire older veterans, and seems to undervalue young players. However, I've read there are baseball people who feel Cain is a better long term bet than Lincecum. I can't see any scenario the Sox aquire Cain.

Flight #24
01-24-2008, 02:43 PM
It should be noted that Cain's name was only brought up by Rotoworld, and was not included in the article.

And that even Rotoworld only said "Cain's been mentioned as a trade candidate", but didn't make clear that that was for Alex Rios. Kind of like saying "The White Sox have discussed trading away Danks, Gio, Fields, Richar (for Miguel Cabrera), and have inquired about the availability of Coco Crisp." - that wouldn't mean they want to trade all those guys for Crisp.

D. TODD
01-24-2008, 03:49 PM
I'm pretty sure the writer was mistaking Cain for Lowry, but I'm sure Giants fans have to be worked up reading this. After all Sabean has done some dumb things in the past. :D:

He seems to love to acquire older veterans, and seems to undervalue young players. However, I've read there are baseball people who feel Cain is a better long term bet than Lincecum. I can't see any scenario the Sox aquire Cain. I think the writer has retracted Cain from the article already. It does seem like it was just a typo. Lowry seems like the name he was looking for.

turners56
01-24-2008, 05:23 PM
Cain for Crede is like trading Crede to the Angels and getting back Jered Weaver, I think I'll be more than happy with Lowry.

doublem23
01-24-2008, 05:46 PM
Cain for Crede is like trading Crede to the Angels and getting back Jered Weaver, I think I'll be more than happy with Lowry.



:o:

Do you even know who Matt Cain and Noah Lowry are? Did you bother to look up any information on either of them?

I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lowryno01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cainma01.shtml

4 years younger, 50 more IP last year, double the strikeouts, why would anyone actually want Cain over Lowry?

Jjav829
01-24-2008, 06:54 PM
:o:

Do you even know who Matt Cain and Noah Lowry are? Did you bother to look up any information on either of them?

I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lowryno01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cainma01.shtml

4 years younger, 50 more IP last year, double the strikeouts, why would anyone actually want Cain over Lowry?

I think he was just trying to say that Cain (like Weaver) is pretty much untouchable unless we're trading a star, and that Lowry would be a more than fair return for Crede.

Kinda like how you meant Lowry over Cain. :tongue:

doublem23
01-24-2008, 07:21 PM
I think he was just trying to say that Cain (like Weaver) is pretty much untouchable unless we're trading a star, and that Lowry would be a more than fair return for Crede.

Kinda like how you meant Lowry over Cain. :tongue:

Perhaps. And I should have put my last sentence in sarcasm.

turners56
01-25-2008, 09:00 PM
:o:



Do you even know who Matt Cain and Noah Lowry are? Did you bother to look up any information on either of them?

I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lowryno01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cainma01.shtml

4 years younger, 50 more IP last year, double the strikeouts, why would anyone actually want Cain over Lowry?

We're not getting Cain for Crede, that's crazy talk. Plus, it's an error in the article. Perhaps you should of read the "more than" part of my statement, meaning if we get Lowry, I'll be satisfied.

PalehosePlanet
01-30-2008, 12:10 PM
FWIW, Cowely states that a deal might already be in place between the Giants and Sox for Crede. The deal could take place as early as mid March, after Joe proves he's healthy enough to play.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2008/01/cowleys_top_5.html#more

Taliesinrk
01-30-2008, 12:32 PM
FWIW, Cowely states that a deal might already be in place between the Giants and Sox for Crede. The deal could take place as early as mid March, after Joe proves he's healthy enough to play.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2008/01/cowleys_top_5.html#more

"FWIW" --> Cowley.. Not much

Rockabilly
01-30-2008, 12:57 PM
rumor I hear in SF from the Giants beat writer who was on the radio is that Lowry and Winn will be going to the Sox for Crede and a few prospects which one might be Brian Anderson if Crede is healthy in spring training..

The Giants want to get younger so thats y Winn might be involved in the deal

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 01:10 PM
rumor I hear in SF from the Giants beat writer who was on the radio is that Lowry and Winn will be going to the Sox for Crede and a few prospects which one might be Brian Anderson if Crede is healthy in spring training..

The Giants want to get younger so thats y Winn might be involved in the deal

Talent wise, that's a nice haul considering the "prospects" we have left and poor (since we know Poreda won't be a part of the deal). Winn has 2 years left on his contract totaling $16.25 million, though. That I don't like, but perhaps the Giants could toss some cash our way.

PalehosePlanet
01-30-2008, 01:11 PM
rumor I hear in SF from the Giants beat writer who was on the radio is that Lowry and Winn will be going to the Sox for Crede and a few prospects which one might be Brian Anderson if Crede is healthy in spring training..

The Giants want to get younger so thats y Winn might be involved in the deal

If this were to happen, I wonder how we'd use Winn. He's definitely good enough to start every day, or at least against RHPs, but how would this affect Quentin and his development? Either way it would certainly be an excellent insurance policy if someone in the OF were to spend time on the DL.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 01:15 PM
If this were to happen, I wonder how we'd use Winn. He's definitely good enough to start every day, or at least against RHPs, but how would this affect Quentin and his development? Either way it would certainly be an excellent insurance policy if someone in the OF were to spend time on the DL.

I think we could still get Quentin 350-400 AB next season. DH v LHP, while giving Dye, Winn, and Swisher days off. Dye may be only good for 140 games at this point in his career. Thome as well. It'd be nice to keep Quentin 100% healthy for an entire year before putting him out there full-time.

Rockabilly
01-30-2008, 01:18 PM
Im still thinking PK is going to be traded and Swisher will be move over to 1B.. thats why the Sox might be getting Winn in the Crede deal or we could have a solid bench with Quentn and Owens coming off the bench..

I think i read that Quentin is only about 80 % healthy right now I could be wrong

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 01:21 PM
Im still thinking PK is going to be traded and Swisher will be move over to 1B.. thats why the Sox might be getting Winn in the Crede deal or we could have a solid bench with Quentn and Owens coming off the bench..

The bench would definitely be solid.

OF Quentin (RH)
OF/PR Owens (LH)
IF Ozuna (RH)
IF Uribe (RH)
C Hall (RH)

Finally a RH power threat off the bench that we've been missing for years. Although we lack a LH threat now.

PalehosePlanet
01-30-2008, 01:29 PM
Im still thinking PK is going to be traded and Swisher will be move over to 1B.. thats why the Sox might be getting Winn in the Crede deal or we could have a solid bench with Quentn and Owens coming off the bench..

I think i read that Quentin is only about 80 % healthy right now I could be wrong

But if we already were to have 5 OF'ers and a lead-off man in Winn, what on earth would we trade Paulie for? Teams dealing top of the rotation starters --- which would be our only need --- want prospects in return, not a win now guy at $12 mil per.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 01:33 PM
But if we already were to have 5 OF'ers and a lead-off man in Winn, what on earth would we trade Paulie for? Teams dealing top of the rotation starters --- which would be our only need --- want prospects in return, not a win now guy at $12 mil per.

I agree. I think it's more likely Dye would be the one moved, but not this season. Swisher moves to LF, Winn in CF, and Quentin in RF next season. Pauly is here to stay in my mind.

Flight #24
01-30-2008, 01:43 PM
FWIW, Lowry's splits had ERAs of 3.7, 2.48, 4.14, 2.87, 7.33. His home road were: 3.87 / 3.97.

Sounds like a solid year for a guy we'd look to to be a #4-5 SP, even accounting for a bump in moving to USCF & the AL.

Winn is less interesting, but I'm willing to take on a salary to get another good player(or give up less).

RowanDye
01-30-2008, 02:06 PM
FWIW, Cowely states that a deal might already be in place between the Giants and Sox for Crede. The deal could take place as early as mid March, after Joe proves he's healthy enough to play.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2008/01/cowleys_top_5.html#more

Ugh. Why do I even expect professionalism from this guy anymore?

Early odds [on starting 2B]? Never discount what Uribe can do. Ask a certain farmer in the Dominican Republic.

I understand it's his blog, but that's just wrong.

As far as the proposed trade, this sounds like it could be a win-win situation.

Crede and Anderson have both been marked for trade, it's inevitable.

Winn offers protection if Owens or Quentin fall on their face. It is a little scary going into a season expecting so many young players to perform well (Fields, Richar, Owens, Quentin, Danks, Floyd).

Fields (and Danks) are the MOST likely to perform well, so trading Crede makes sense.

With this trade the Sox would at least have a contingency plan for all of the other young guys they're counting on.

Winn covers Owens/Quentin
Lowry covers Floyd
Uribe already covers Richar

The only thing I don't like is Lowry's spike in walks last year, adds to the wonder of why the Giants think he's expendable.

From the Giants perspective, they would be getting a lot of potential upside. A healthy Joe and a hitting Anderson greatly improve their much maligned defense and significantly reduce their team age.

I have a hard time believing that the Sox would get money in return though.

Tragg
01-30-2008, 02:11 PM
rumor I hear in SF from the Giants beat writer who was on the radio is that Lowry and Winn will be going to the Sox for Crede and a few prospects which one might be Brian Anderson if Crede is healthy in spring training..

The Giants want to get younger so thats y Winn might be involved in the deal
How about Lowry and Winn for Crede and Uribe.
No reason for us to give them prospects for their mediocre players, when we don't get prospects for ours.
And Crede isn't mediocre - Lowry and Winn are.
This is where free agency comes in handy - sign Benson or someone. Please don't give young talent for the mediocre.

eriqjaffe
01-30-2008, 02:40 PM
sign Benson or someone.Preferably "someone". I want nothing of what Benson would bring to the team - he's not really that great of a pitcher (career 4.34 ERA) who hasn't pitched since 2006? With a wife who is guaranteed to cause nothing but distractions? Where do I sign up?

SoxNation05
01-30-2008, 04:55 PM
Preferably "someone". I want nothing of what Benson would bring to the team - he's not really that great of a pitcher (career 4.34 ERA) who hasn't pitched since 2006? With a wife who is guaranteed to cause nothing but distractions? Where do I sign up?
Anna Benson= Gone

StepsInSC
01-30-2008, 05:07 PM
Anna Benson= Gone

I'm fairly positive they're still together...no?

santo=dorf
01-30-2008, 05:09 PM
FWIW, Lowry's splits had ERAs of 3.7, 2.48, 4.14, 2.87, 7.33. His home road were: 3.87 / 3.97.

Sounds like a solid year for a guy we'd look to to be a #4-5 SP, even accounting for a bump in moving to USCF & the AL.

Winn is less interesting, but I'm willing to take on a salary to get another good player(or give up less).
Look at his WHIP:
1.39, 1.44, 1.38, 1.60, 2.14
87 walks to 87 K's. That's terrible.
Minimum 140 IP NL Ranks:
K/9: 44 out of 54
BB/9: 1/54
K/BB: 54/54

That's not good.

spawn
01-30-2008, 05:11 PM
I'm fairly positive they're still together...no?
Yes, they're still together. She served him divorce papers in '06, but then decided to try and make the marriage work.

TheVulture
01-30-2008, 05:13 PM
Fields (and Danks) are the MOST likely to perform well, so trading Crede makes sense.


I don't know if I'd pick a guy who K'd 125 times in 373 AB as most likely, given his suspect glove as well. I like Fields, don't get me wrong, but I recognize there's a chance he could hit .220, strike out once every three times to the plate, and play a brutal 3b. Personally I'll go with Quentin as most likely to succeed - at the very least he'll play his position very well and put the bat on the ball.

SoxNation05
01-30-2008, 05:14 PM
Yes, they're still together. She served him divorce papers in '06, but then decided to try and make the marriage work.
O I heard about the divorce papers and I just assumed they broke up. My bad.

RowanDye
01-30-2008, 05:33 PM
I don't know if I'd pick a guy who K'd 125 times in 373 AB as most likely, given his suspect glove as well. I like Fields, don't get me wrong, but I recognize there's a chance he could hit .220, strike out once every three times to the plate, and play a brutal 3b. Personally I'll go with Quentin as most likely to succeed - at the very least he'll play his position very well and put the bat on the ball.


If Quentin stays healthy you may be right. Unfortunately he battled injuries last year and had a craptacular time at the plate in the process.

Fields ALSO battled a hamstring injury last year and still showed solid run producing capability, all as a 24 yr old rookie. As long as he hits 30+ home runs and drives in 90+ RBIs, I don't really care if he strikes out 150x next year.

Taking into account injury history and the style of game these guys play, I think Fields will contribute more this year. If the Sox trade Crede, they're counting on it.

Flight #24
01-30-2008, 06:14 PM
Look at his WHIP:
1.39, 1.44, 1.38, 1.60, 2.14
87 walks to 87 K's. That's terrible.
Minimum 140 IP NL Ranks:
K/9: 44 out of 54
BB/9: 1/54
K/BB: 54/54

That's not good.

Yeah, those are bad. The 1.3-1.4 WHIP isn't that bad for a #5, but those last 2 are bad. He seems to have started off decently then dropped off the table - anyone with a better sense of his season able to explain what happened? Was he bad and his ERA/WHIP just caught up to the rest of it or were his peripherals tolerable in April-June and then dropped off along with the ERA/WHIP?

goon
01-30-2008, 06:28 PM
I've only seen Lowry pitch one time, no where enough to make a claim how good he is, but he certainly had a good season in 2005. 33 games, 204 IP, 172 SO, 1.31 WHIP... what troubles me is that he hasn't topped 160 innings in the last two seasons and he is walking players at an insane rate. Last season he was third in BB's in the NL.

He's only 27 and is under contract for a while, he's probably worth the risk.

I see no point in trying to get Winn.

The Thomenator
01-30-2008, 07:22 PM
I've only seen Lowry pitch one time, no where enough to make a claim how good he is, but he certainly had a good season in 2005. 33 games, 204 IP, 172 SO, 1.31 WHIP... what troubles me is that he hasn't topped 160 innings in the last two seasons and he is walking players at an insane rate. Last season he was third in BB's in the NL.

He's only 27 and is under contract for a while, he's probably worth the risk.

I see no point in trying to get Winn.

If they can throw in some money for the $8M he'll be getting over the next two years, he add some depth and a left handed threat off the bench at the absolutely least. On the positive side of the spectrum, he could start at one of the 3 outfield spots and be a descent lead off hitter if Owens doesn't pan out.

I'm all for it, if we're not paying for all of him.

sircaffey1
01-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Yeah, those are bad. The 1.3-1.4 WHIP isn't that bad for a #5, but those last 2 are bad. He seems to have started off decently then dropped off the table - anyone with a better sense of his season able to explain what happened? Was he bad and his ERA/WHIP just caught up to the rest of it or were his peripherals tolerable in April-June and then dropped off along with the ERA/WHIP?

He developed elbow issues in August. He was shut down after his Aug. 29th start. Probably a good reason his last 2 starts were horrible (8.0 IP, 19 H, 13 ER). Before those last two starts, his era was 3.34.

Lowry can be a fine 4/5. Personally, I have more faith in him than Danks and Floyd.

Tragg
01-30-2008, 11:47 PM
Lowery is a reasonably safe pick to produce what the average 5th starter produces. He's a safety net, but certainly no one we should throw young talent at to get (you can sign his level of pitcher as a FA easily). He's someone we could throw our excess mediocre veterans at to try to get.
One can toss 2 of Floyd's early starts, and pull his ERA down a point and a half probably (his first start was in that infamous Twins DH debacle). Danks clearly got tired at the end of the year. Danks and Floyd have far more upside. And it's not like our rotation is that killer that it couldn't use some upside; it's not that overpowering at the top that it can accept mediocre as the ceiling at 4 or 5. We'll get mediocre in some spots, but if that's what you shoot for, you'll probably get worse.

sircaffey1
01-31-2008, 01:28 AM
Lowery is a reasonably safe pick to produce what the average 5th starter produces. He's a safety net, but certainly no one we should throw young talent at to get (you can sign his level of pitcher as a FA easily). He's someone we could throw our excess mediocre veterans at to try to get.
One can toss 2 of Floyd's early starts, and pull his ERA down a point and a half probably (his first start was in that infamous Twins DH debacle). Danks clearly got tired at the end of the year. Danks and Floyd have far more upside. And it's not like our rotation is that killer that it couldn't use some upside; it's not that overpowering at the top that it can accept mediocre as the ceiling at 4 or 5. We'll get mediocre in some spots, but if that's what you shoot for, you'll probably get worse.

Marquis gets $21 million for a 6+ ERA. I guess it was easy to sign him, but not cost effective. That's for sure.

hillbilly
01-31-2008, 11:18 AM
I personally don't think the SF Giants would ever part ways with either Lincecum or Cain unless they got major prospects/talent in return. However, this is pure speculation based on where they are and the fact that they want to get younger and this trade is something they might ponder for only a second, but ponder they should. Crede, BA, and Danks for either Cain or Lincecum? I don't think they'd take it, but teams have done dumber things considering the state of their team.

gr8mexico
01-31-2008, 11:31 AM
I personally don't think the SF Giants would ever part ways with either Lincecum or Cain unless they got major prospects/talent in return. However, this is pure speculation based on where they are and the fact that they want to get younger and this trade is something they might ponder for only a second, but ponder they should. Crede, BA, and Danks for either Cain or Lincecum? I don't think they'd take it, but teams have done dumber things considering the state of their team.
Well in Dec. the Giants had an offer for Alex Rios that would of send Tim Lincecum to the BlueJays for Alex Rios. So Joe Crede for Cain is possibe, specially if Rowand and Ron Shueler are pushing the Giants to get him.

oeo
01-31-2008, 11:46 AM
Well in Dec. the Giants had an offer for Alex Rios that would of send Tim Lincecum to the BlueJays for Alex Rios. So Joe Crede for Cain is possibe, specially if Rowand and Ron Shueler are pushing the Giants to get him.

I'm not getting your point here. Alex Rios >>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Crede.

sircaffey1
01-31-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm not getting your point here. Alex Rios >>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Crede.

Let me add a few more Rios>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crede

cards press box
01-31-2008, 03:40 PM
But maybe the deal would be Crede + a starter (Floyd?) or maybe a reliever (MacDougal?) or maybe a middle infielder (Uribe?) for Cain or Lincecum. Who knows? I'm just saying that there could be other parts to a potential deal that would lead the Sox to acquiring Cain or Lincecum.

Gammons Peter
01-31-2008, 03:44 PM
But maybe the deal would be Crede + a starter (Floyd?) or maybe a reliever (MacDougal?) or maybe a middle infielder (Uribe?) for Cain or Lincecum. Who knows? I'm just saying that there could be other parts to a potential deal that would lead the Sox to acquiring Cain or Lincecum.


Well maybe FIELDS, Danks AND a prospect or two MIGHT get Cain or Lincecum

gr8mexico
01-31-2008, 03:57 PM
Well maybe FIELDS, Danks AND a prospect or two MIGHT get Cain or Lincecum
Why would you give that much for 1 guy. The trade can get done with Crede and Floyd/ Masset for Cain.

btrain929
01-31-2008, 03:59 PM
Why would you give that much for 1 guy. The trade can get done with Crede and Floyd/ Masset for Cain.

Fixed it for ya...

thedudeabides
01-31-2008, 04:01 PM
Why would you give that much for 1 guy. The trade can get done with Crede and Floyd/ Masset for Cain.

No chance. Caine is really good. He's one of the best up and coming pitchers. There is no way he is coming to the southside.

Gammons Peter
01-31-2008, 04:02 PM
Why would you give that much for 1 guy. The trade can get done with Crede and Floyd/ Masset for Cain.

:gulp:

kittle42
01-31-2008, 04:13 PM
No chance. Caine is really good. He's one of the best up and coming pitchers. There is no way he is coming to the southside.

But an injury risk, a potnetial bust pitcher, and a guy with an ERA over 6.00 (but remember, he beat the Cubs in that spot start!) are totally worth the same as a Matt Cain. And if that doesn't work, we can toss in Andrew Sisco!

santo=dorf
01-31-2008, 09:03 PM
But maybe the deal would be Crede + a starter (Floyd?) or maybe a reliever (MacDougal?) or maybe a middle infielder (Uribe?) for Cain or Lincecum. Who knows? I'm just saying that there could be other parts to a potential deal that would lead the Sox to acquiring Cain or Lincecum.
Can the White Sox really afford to give up a free agent to be, who's coming off of back surgery (Crede,) a failure at the major league level who is out of options (Floyd,) a wild, injury prone reliever who couldn't find the plate with Onstar last season (MacDougal,) and an expensive, lazy player without a spot to play (Uribe) for Lincecum or Cain?

:rolleyes:
:threadsucks

sullythered
01-31-2008, 10:03 PM
I think we should trade Crede and Masset/Ozuna for Roy Halliday.

btrain929
01-31-2008, 10:08 PM
I think we should trade Crede and Masset/Ozuna for Roy Halliday.

1) His name is Roy Halladay
2) Does the snow really bring out THIS MUCH ****ing nonsense from people?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

drewcifer
01-31-2008, 10:37 PM
I think we should trade Crede and Masset/Ozuna for Roy Halliday.

The Jays just made a 3B trade and they have a real bullpen. Ozuna has the most value in your idea!

Ah,...that was embarassing (for me to read).

Ozuna for Halladay not going to happen, Sparky.

rowand33
01-31-2008, 11:14 PM
The Jays just made a 3B trade and they have a real bullpen. Ozuna has the most value in your idea!

Ah,...that was embarassing (for me to read).

Ozuna for Halladay not going to happen, Sparky.

I think teal was implied in that trade idea.

Nobody thinks Crede & Ozuna=Halladay

btrain929
01-31-2008, 11:32 PM
I think teal was implied in that trade idea.

Nobody thinks Crede & Ozuna=Halladay

When you take into consideration all the other crazy ass proposals on this site, I don't think anything should be "implied"....

cards press box
02-01-2008, 12:37 AM
Can the White Sox really afford to give up a free agent to be, who's coming off of back surgery (Crede,) a failure at the major league level who is out of options (Floyd,) a wild, injury prone reliever who couldn't find the plate with Onstar last season (MacDougal,) and an expensive, lazy player without a spot to play (Uribe) for Lincecum or Cain?

:rolleyes:
:threadsucks


Geez, all right, already. I'm not suggesting any particular trade. I'm just saying that a healthy Crede (if spring training bears that out) + some other combination of players could bring back a Lincecum or Cain in return. These Giants pitchers are top prosepcts but they are still basically that -- prospects. A healthy Crede has more value than you think.

O.K., happy now?

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 01:18 AM
Geez, all right, already. I'm not suggesting any particular trade. I'm just saying that a healthy Crede (if spring training bears that out) + some other combination of players could bring back a Lincecum or Cain in return. These Giants pitchers are top prosepcts but they are still basically that -- prospects. A healthy Crede has more value than you think.

O.K., happy now?

Yes, some other combination of players could return one of them. However, Crede would certainly not be the centerpiece.

gr8mexico
02-01-2008, 01:35 AM
Yes, some other combination of players could return one of them. However, Crede would certainly not be the centerpiece.
I'm surprise that people here think that Joe Crede is worth nothing.Crede has established himself as one of the best fielding third basemen in the Majors .Having Crede glove at 3rd saves the team many runs during the year. He was a Silver Slugger in 2006 and is a clutch hitter. Every year Crede has improved his HR and RBI totals. While lowering his stikeout totals. How many overrall 3rd baseman are better then him when healthy? Not many

sullythered
02-01-2008, 07:20 AM
The Jays just made a 3B trade and they have a real bullpen. Ozuna has the most value in your idea!

Ah,...that was embarassing (for me to read).

Ozuna for Halladay not going to happen, Sparky.

Boy on boy, I really didn't think I needed the teal. I guess the hand holding really is necessary.

Bucky F. Dent
02-01-2008, 08:08 AM
I'm surprise that people here think that Joe Crede is worth nothing.Crede has established himself as one of the best fielding third basemen in the Majors .Having Crede glove at 3rd saves the team many runs during the year. He was a Silver Slugger in 2006 and is a clutch hitter. Every year Crede has improved his HR and RBI totals. While lowering his stikeout totals. How many overrall 3rd baseman are better then him when healthy? Not many

"When healthy."

Coming off a season aborted due to back surgery, you will be able to get something for him if he has a healthy spring, but you won't be able to get anything near "full value" (whatever that may mean) for him until he has shown the durability to make it through an entire season.....and that runs you right into the fact that he is an FA w/ Boras as his agent.

So the stars are certainly not lining up right now for the Sox to get "full value" for Crede.

Bucky F. Dent
02-01-2008, 08:09 AM
Boy on boy, I really didn't think I needed the teal. I guess the hand holding really is necessary.


You meant "boy oh boy" right, Sully?:?:

KyWhiSoxFan
02-01-2008, 08:27 AM
You meant "boy oh boy" right, Sully?:?:

Maybe, but he was talking about hand holding.

Craig Grebeck
02-01-2008, 09:03 AM
I'm surprise that people here think that Joe Crede is worth nothing.Crede has established himself as one of the best fielding third basemen in the Majors .Having Crede glove at 3rd saves the team many runs during the year. He was a Silver Slugger in 2006 and is a clutch hitter. Every year Crede has improved his HR and RBI totals. While lowering his stikeout totals. How many overrall 3rd baseman are better then him when healthy? Not many
Personally I would take:
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Miguel Cabrera
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Lowell
Troy Glaus
Scott Rolen (when healthy, you trotted it out as well)
Josh Fields
Ryan Zimmerman
Chad Tracy
Garrett Atkins
Mike Lamb
Akinora Iwamura
Hank Blalock
Adrian Beltre

cws05champ
02-01-2008, 09:15 AM
Already a massive thread in WTS:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=96908

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 09:24 AM
Personally I would take:
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Miguel Cabrera
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Lowell
Troy Glaus
Scott Rolen (when healthy, you trotted it out as well)
Josh Fields
Ryan Zimmerman
Chad Tracy
Garrett Atkins
Mike Lamb
Akinora Iwamura
Hank Blalock
Adrian Beltre

Well then I'm glad you aren't making the front office decisions because that's crazy

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 09:26 AM
You meant "boy oh boy" right, Sully?:?:


:rolling::rolling::rolling:

fquaye149
02-01-2008, 09:28 AM
1) His name is Roy Halladay
2) Does the snow really bring out THIS MUCH ****ing nonsense from people?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Does someone typo-ing (or misspelling) Halladay's name really bring out THIS MUCH of a comment from people?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

btrain929
02-01-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm surprise that people here think that Joe Crede is worth nothing.Crede has established himself as one of the best fielding third basemen in the Majors when he's healthy..... .Having Crede glove at 3rd saves the team many runs during the year. He was a Silver Slugger in 2006 and is a clutch hitter. Every year Crede has improved his HR and RBI totals. While lowering his stikeout totals. How many overrall 3rd baseman are better then him when healthy? Not many

Nobody knows if he's healthy. If he's not healthy, then he has no value.

santo=dorf
02-01-2008, 10:49 AM
Well then I'm glad you aren't making the front office decisions because that's crazy
What a dumb comment. He included Fields, who the organization is high on, and Miguel Cabrera, a target of KW this past offseason. I'd also add to that list David Wright, Aramis Ramirez and Chipper Jones. You might even add Teahen and Alex Gordon to the list. Not sure on the Lamb and Blalock suggestions however.

Joe Crede is one of the most overrated Sox players I can recall. I'm not saying he sucks or never did anything to help this franchise, but he gets way too much love and slack for the things he does.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 11:58 AM
What a dumb comment. He included Fields, who the organization is high on, and Miguel Cabrera, a target of KW this past offseason. I'd also add to that list David Wright, Aramis Ramirez and Chipper Jones. You might even add Teahen and Alex Gordon to the list. Not sure on the Lamb and Blalock suggestions however.

Joe Crede is one of the most overrated Sox players I can recall. I'm not saying he sucks or never did anything to help this franchise, but he gets way too much love and slack for the things he does.

You mean underrated, but I'll get to that in a minute. It was not a dumb comment. I actually hope it didn't sound too nasty, because I honestly wasn't trying to be.. just trying to give a quick synopsis of my thoughts. I agree with a number of players on that list + your David Wright. But, the fact remains that, Mike Lamb is not better than Joe Crede, nor should you take him over Crede (if healthy). I wasn't taking issue with the whole list, just a couple that I wouldn't even put in the same league as Joe... hence the reason I wouldn't want front office moves made like that. If healthy, there's no way I'd get rid of Joe Crede for Mike Lamb.

Back to being underrated... JC has always has been because of the lack of appreciation of his defense. Last year (and possibly in the years to come) we have, and will, see how much we miss his glove. This is similar to the years after Robin left. Joe should have multiple GGs, yet has had them taken away by those like Chavez because the Sox have played second fiddle in a 2-team market. He's not flashy and doesn't talk a lot, so not many pay attention. There's noone I'd rather have playing D at 3B in a tie game in the top of the 9th... and only a couple more players (Ortiz) that I'd rather have up in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th (Joe is extremely clutch).

santo=dorf
02-01-2008, 12:13 PM
Back to being underrated... JC has always has been because of the lack of appreciation of his defense. Last year (and possibly in the years to come) we have, and will, see how much we miss his glove. This is similar to the years after Robin left. Joe should have multiple GGs, yet has had them taken away by those like Chavez because the Sox have played second fiddle in a 2-team market. He's not flashy and doesn't talk a lot, so not many pay attention. There's noone I'd rather have playing D at 3B in a tie game in the top of the 9th... and only a couple more players (Ortiz) that I'd rather have up in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th (Joe is extremely clutch).
Wow. That's insane.

I seem to recall Joe Crede dropping a flyball in foul territory the 9th inning during a tie game and the next pitch was crushed over the left field fence by Manny Ramirez.

Selective memory? Sure, but I think that's what a lot of Sox fans do with Crede's late inning offensive moments because the numbers don't have him at the top.

Rethink your statement about the 9th inning. Why is it guys like Bonds, Thome, and Manny don't get stuff to hit in a close game, but an average or below average gets the winning hit? Oh right, that's because the pitcher is more likely to give the crappier hitter something better to hit. Let's also not act like the last at-bat is the only at-bat that matters. If a guy gets an RBI single in the 3rd inning perhaps there's no need for a bottom of the 9th.

A Sox fan just put Joe Crede at the of a list in a hitter's category with him being lumped in the same breath with David Ortiz.

Just like I said, he's overrated by a lot Sox fans.

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 12:16 PM
What a dumb comment. He included Fields, who the organization is high on, and Miguel Cabrera, a target of KW this past offseason. I'd also add to that list David Wright, Aramis Ramirez and Chipper Jones. You might even add Teahen and Alex Gordon to the list. Not sure on the Lamb and Blalock suggestions however.

Joe Crede is one of the most overrated Sox players I can recall. I'm not saying he sucks or never did anything to help this franchise, but he gets way too much love and slack for the things he does.

I'll second that. One of the most overrated Sox players of my lifetime.

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Wow. That's insane.

I seem to recall Joe Crede dropping a flyball in foul territory the 9th inning during a tie game and the next pitch was crushed over the left field fence by Manny Ramirez.

Selective memory? Sure, but I think that's what a lot of Sox fans do with Crede's late inning offensive moments because the numbers don't have him at the top.

Rethink your statement about the 9th inning. Why is it guys like Bonds, Thome, and Manny don't get stuff to hit in a close game, but an average or below average gets the winning hit? Oh right, that's because the pitcher is more likely to give the crappier hitter something better to hit. Let's also not act like the last at-bat is the only at-bat that matters. If a guy gets an RBI single in the 3rd inning perhaps there's no need for a bottom of the 9th.

A Sox fan just put Joe Crede at the of a list in a hitter's category with him being lumped in the same breath with David Ortiz.

Just like I said, he's overrated by a lot Sox fans.

Leave is be santo. Let the Crede fans have something. The old "clutchness" argument for why Crede is a good player. That magical 2005 season in which he his .286 with RISP and .232 with RISP & 2 outs. Or that 2004 season in which he hit .238 with RISP and .189 with RISP & 2 outs. Crede gets some hits in the playoffs, and has a career year in 2006, and suddenly he's a god when the game's on the line. There are 50+ players I'd rather have at the plate when I need a hit.

gr8mexico
02-01-2008, 12:29 PM
Personally I would take:
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Miguel Cabrera
Alex Rodriguez
Mike Lowell
Troy Glaus
Scott Rolen (when healthy, you trotted it out as well)
Josh Fields
Ryan Zimmerman
Chad Tracy
Garrett Atkins
Mike Lamb
Akinora Iwamura
Hank Blalock
Adrian Beltre
Are you series? Remember I did say overrall. Most of these guys I still wouldnt take over Joe Crede with a BAD BACK

chisox77
02-01-2008, 12:33 PM
Joe Clutch, not Joe Crede. Remember that.


:cool:

kittle42
02-01-2008, 12:44 PM
and only a couple more players (Ortiz) that I'd rather have up in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th (Joe is extremely clutch).

This is a ludicrous statement.

By the way, from baseball-reference.com

Most similar batters to Joe Crede

Fernando Tatis (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tatisfe01.shtml) (965)
Ty Wigginton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wiggity01.shtml) (957)
Morgan Ensberg (http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/ensbemo01.shtml) (949)
Butch Hobson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hobsobu01.shtml) (945)
Russ Davis (http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/davisru01.shtml) (944)
Sean Berry (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/berryse01.shtml) (942)
Ray Jablonski (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jablora01.shtml) (939)
Craig Monroe (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/monrocr01.shtml) (938)
Mike Blowers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/blowemi01.shtml) (936)
Pedro Feliz (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/felizpe01.shtml) (935)Wow!

kittle42
02-01-2008, 12:45 PM
That magical 2005 season in which he his .286 with RISP and .232 with RISP & 2 outs. Or that 2004 season in which he hit .238 with RISP and .189 with RISP & 2 outs. Crede gets some hits in the playoffs, and has a career year in 2006, and suddenly he's a god when the game's on the line. There are 50+ players I'd rather have at the plate when I need a hit.

These are the same people who wouldn't want Alex Rodriguez on their team because "he isn't clutch in the playoffs."

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 12:46 PM
Wow. That's insane.

I seem to recall Joe Crede dropping a flyball in foul territory the 9th inning during a tie game and the next pitch was crushed over the left field fence by Manny Ramirez.

I guess we all make mistakes... come on.. that was one time. Joe's defense is highly underrated by most followers of baseball.

Selective memory? Sure, but I think that's what a lot of Sox fans do with Crede's late inning offensive moments because the numbers don't have him at the top.

Rethink your statement about the 9th inning. Why is it guys like Bonds, Thome, and Manny don't get stuff to hit in a close game, but an average or below average gets the winning hit? Oh right, that's because the pitcher is more likely to give the crappier hitter something better to hit. Let's also not act like the last at-bat is the only at-bat that matters. If a guy gets an RBI single in the 3rd inning perhaps there's no need for a bottom of the 9th.

A Sox fan just put Joe Crede at the of a list in a hitter's category with him being lumped in the same breath with David Ortiz.

Just like I said, he's overrated by a lot Sox fans.

You know what? I'll give in here. I clearly was overvaluing Crede's late-inning heroics by saying there aren't more that many others I'd want up with the game on the line. While I wouldn't be opposed to Joe being up, there are quite a few I'd rather have. However, let's not act as if coming through in the clutch is worthless.. it certainly has value and makes a player better. Joe's had like 2 or 3 more walk-offs in his career than Big Frank, and it's not just because Joe has seen a lot more to hit in those situations.


Either way, we digress. You called me out for saying the OPs statement was crazy and I still back what I said. There's no way that I'm taking the Rays' AI over Crede. That list has several guys that have no business being on it, and if a trade was made - them for Joe Crede, straight up (with or w/o the Josh Fields situation) - I would be extremely upset, with good reason.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Are you series? Remember I did say overrall. Most of these guys I still wouldnt take over Joe Crede with a BAD BACK

I would bet every dime I have ever made that you would never make this statement if Joe Crede had the exact same career but had never played for the Chicago White Sox.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 12:47 PM
This is a ludicrous statement.

By the way, from baseball-reference.com

Most similar batters to Joe Crede

Fernando Tatis (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tatisfe01.shtml) (965)
Ty Wigginton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wiggity01.shtml) (957)
Morgan Ensberg (http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/ensbemo01.shtml) (949)
Butch Hobson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hobsobu01.shtml) (945)
Russ Davis (http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/davisru01.shtml) (944)
Sean Berry (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/berryse01.shtml) (942)
Ray Jablonski (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jablora01.shtml) (939)
Craig Monroe (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/monrocr01.shtml) (938)
Mike Blowers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/blowemi01.shtml) (936)
Pedro Feliz (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/felizpe01.shtml) (935)Wow!

See my latest post. But once again, Joe's value comes most from his defense.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 12:48 PM
I would bet every dime I have ever made that you would never make this statement if Joe Crede had the exact same career but had never played for the Chicago White Sox.

MIKE LAMB?!?!?

kittle42
02-01-2008, 12:50 PM
MIKE LAMB?!?!?

He said "most."

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 12:50 PM
These are the same people who wouldn't want Alex Rodriguez on their team because "he isn't clutch in the playoffs."

That's ridiculous.

On a side note, I need to figure out how to respond to multiple quotes in one response.. sorry about that

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 12:53 PM
He said "most."

I realize this, and think he's merely overemphasizing his point, but it has some truth. AI, HB, ML, KK are some examples from the list.

I mean come on though.. did you guys seriously not realize how valuable Joe was when we saw the "defense" that was played at 3B last year?

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 12:56 PM
I realize this, and think he's merely overemphasizing his point, but it has some truth. AI, HB, ML, KK are some examples from the list.

I mean come on though.. did you guys seriously not realize how valuable Joe was when we saw the "defense" that was played at 3B last year?

We also saw that "defense" hit 23 HR in just over a half a season.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 12:59 PM
We also saw that "defense" hit 23 HR in just over a half a season.

This comment has no value because you're addressing a player that I have taken 0 amount of issue with. I thought his inclusion on the list was fine. I don't think that the JF vs. healthy JC argument is clear one way or the other (to date - I believe JF will be better - but the OP said "right now"), but I can understand where the JF supporters are coming from.

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 01:04 PM
This comment has no value because you're addressing a player that I have taken 0 amount of issue with. I thought his inclusion on the list was fine. I don't think that the JF vs. healthy JC argument is clear one way or the other (to date - I believe JF will be better - but the OP said "right now"), but I can understand where the JF supporters are coming from.

I'm just saying, saying we miss Joe's defense as a reason why we need Joe is incomplete. We don't need Joe's defense when that position is producing offensively much better than Joe ever did. That's why there are a ton of better 3B in the league as there are many 3B that trump Joe offensively.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 01:11 PM
I'm just saying, saying we miss Joe's defense as a reason why we need Joe is incomplete. We don't need Joe's defense when that position is producing offensively much better than Joe ever did.

But I never said we needed Joe. I merely was trying to emphasize the value of defense, and the value of Joe's, at that. I was just saying that there's more to a player that his offense. I am for trading Joe if he's going to be gone next year. I'm not certain why Fields couldn't have improved his D in LF, but I guess that's something that I'll trust KW and the Sox with.

Once again, I took issue and started this conversation with questioning the list as a whole and other players on it.

champagne030
02-01-2008, 01:19 PM
We also saw that "defense" hit 23 HR in just over a half a season.

While batting .245/.308 and on his way to a 200+ strikeout season in just over a half season......

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 01:24 PM
But I never said we needed Joe. I merely was trying to emphasize the value of defense, and the value of Joe's, at that. I was just saying that there's more to a player that his offense. I am for trading Joe if he's going to be gone next year. I'm not certain why Fields couldn't have improved his D in LF, but I guess that's something that I'll trust KW and the Sox with.

Once again, I took issue and started this conversation with questioning the list as a whole and other players on it.

My reasoning also goes for why Joe Crede isn't a top 3B in the league. I've seen people rather have Crede over guys like Chipper, Aramis, and others like that. His defense does not make up for ridiculously large gaps in offensive ability. Pedro Feliz is a hell of a defensive player (rated the #1 defensive 3B by the Fielding Bible for 2007), but I don't see people harping on him being one of the top 3B in the league. I would bet many here wouldn't even put him in the top 25. He's Joe Crede hitting in a much worse hitters park. The difference being Joe Crede is a White Sox, and he's god because of it.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 01:26 PM
While batting .245/.308 and on his way to a 200+ strikeout season in just over a half season......

But HRs are all that matter!

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 01:28 PM
My reasoning also goes for why Joe Crede isn't a top 3B in the league. I've seen people rather have Crede over guys like Chipper, Aramis, and others like that. His defense does not make up for ridiculously large gaps in offensive ability. Pedro Feliz is a hell of a defensive player (rated the #1 defensive 3B by the Fielding Bible for 2007), but I don't see people harping on him being one of the top 3B in the league. I would bet many here wouldn't even put him in the top 25. He's Joe Crede hitting in a much worse hitters park. The difference being Joe Crede is a White Sox, and he's god because of it.

He was also MVP of the 2005 post-season run. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not.

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 01:32 PM
He was also MVP of the 2005 post-season run. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not.

So was David Eckstein. In 2006 that is...

gr8mexico
02-01-2008, 01:45 PM
I would bet every dime I have ever made that you would never make this statement if Joe Crede had the exact same career but had never played for the Chicago White Sox.
Well we wont know that for sure but I know for a fact that I wont take Mike Lamb, Hank Blalock over a bad back JOe Crede

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 01:57 PM
So was David Eckstein. In 2006 that is...

Touche.. But I'm willing to bet that Cards fans appreciate what Eckstein has done for them. Once again though, I think my comments are being taken out of context. You were talking about why Sox fans love/"overvalue" Crede, and you omitted any mention of what he did for us to win the world series. I thought that was a pretty good reason to back a player and felt it should be mentioned.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 02:14 PM
Touche.. But I'm willing to bet that Cards fans appreciate what Eckstein has done for them. Once again though, I think my comments are being taken out of context. You were talking about why Sox fans love/"overvalue" Crede, and you omitted any mention of what he did for us to win the world series. I thought that was a pretty good reason to back a player and felt it should be mentioned.

We should also get Willie Harris back. He scored the winning run.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 02:35 PM
We should also get Willie Harris back. He scored the winning run.

Thank you for backing up my statement about my comments being taken out of context. You guys are misinterpreting most of what I've written.

Question: What's a reason that Sox fans love Joe Crede?
A Possible Answer: He was an integral part and large reason why the Sox won the World Series in 2005.

...seems simple enough for me...

kittle42
02-01-2008, 02:59 PM
Question: What's a reason that Sox fans love Joe Crede?
A Possible Answer: He was an integral part and large reason why the Sox won the World Series in 2005.

...seems simple enough for me...

Question: What's a reason that Sox fans overvalue and overrate Joe Crede?
A Possible Answer: He was an integral part and large reason why the Sox won the World Series in 2005.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 03:16 PM
Question: What's a reason that Sox fans overvalue and overrate Joe Crede?
A Possible Answer: He was an integral part and large reason why the Sox won the World Series in 2005.

Most likely true. But whatever.. I mean all I'm trying to say is that that list had some ridiculous names on it, and I've yet to be shown how Mike Lamb should be considered better than JC... that's all.. this other stuff is wayyy off topic.

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 03:37 PM
Touche.. But I'm willing to bet that Cards fans appreciate what Eckstein has done for them. Once again though, I think my comments are being taken out of context. You were talking about why Sox fans love/"overvalue" Crede, and you omitted any mention of what he did for us to win the world series. I thought that was a pretty good reason to back a player and felt it should be mentioned.

I love Joe for what he did, but I don't overrate him because of it. To us, Eckstein is not a top SS, but to some Cards fans he might be. We'd laugh at such opinions. It's the same thing with Joe here. We have to be objective. Not singling you out here. Speaking more broadly.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 04:03 PM
Most likely true. But whatever.. I mean all I'm trying to say is that that list had some ridiculous names on it, and I've yet to be shown how Mike Lamb should be considered better than JC... that's all.. this other stuff is wayyy off topic.

Lamb is not better than Crede. Neither are a few of the other guys listed. However, everything else stands.

Taliesinrk
02-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Lamb is not better than Crede. Neither are a few of the other guys listed. However, everything else stands.

Thank you. That's all I was going for... It's been a pleasure

santo=dorf
02-01-2008, 04:51 PM
Are you series? Remember I did say overrall. Most of these guys I still wouldnt take over Joe Crede with a BAD BACK
I'd love to see your reasoning behind this right after explain how we could get Cain for Crede and Masset.

Who would you take an injured Joe Crede over from this list of third basemen:
A-Rod
Aramis Ramirez
David Wright
Mike Lowell
Garrett Atkins
Miguel Cabrera
Troy Glaus
Scott Rolen
Ryan Zimmerman
Chipper Jones
Ryan Braun

I want an answer

See my latest post. But once again, Joe's value comes most from his defense.
Same with Brandon Inge and Pedro Feliz, and just like Crede, they are capable of hitting 20 home runs. How come they don't get their asses kissed as much by the fans of the teams they played for?

He was also MVP of the 2005 post-season run. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not.
That's not a fact. Dye was the WS MVP and Konerko was the ALCS MVP.

fquaye149
02-01-2008, 05:00 PM
Same with Brandon Inge and Pedro Feliz, and just like Crede, they are capable of hitting 20 home runs. How come they don't get their asses kissed as much by the fans of the teams they played for?

Pedro Feliz HR per 162 games=20

Brandon Inge HR per 162 games=16

Joe Crede HR per 162 games=25



:shrug:

santo=dorf
02-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Pedro Feliz HR per 162 games=20

Brandon Inge HR per 162 games=16

Joe Crede HR per 162 games=25



:shrug:
I clearly wrote "they are capable of hitting 20 home runs"

Pedro Feliz averages 20 home runs for every 162 games, and has hit at least 20 home runs the past 4 seasons.

Inge hit 27 homers in 2006.

So shrug your shoulders all you want but you obviously missed my comment of "they (Inge, Crede and Feliz) are capable of hitting 20 home runs."

soxfandy
02-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Alright i am hearing that the giants are interested in crede and that makes sense now because of feliz signing with the phillies. First i hear noah lowry's name pop up and then i hear brad hennessey's name. Lowry is not good in the nl and with the stuff he has i am dead set against him coming to the southside (i believe he will get rocked). With hennessey I believe that we have already addressed our bullpen problems with the signings of dotel and linebrink. If we can't get anything better than this crap, i say that we just stick with crede and see what he can give us. I just wanted to see what others think and if any of u guys have heard of any other possible suitors?

cards press box
02-01-2008, 05:14 PM
That's not a fact. Dye was the WS MVP and Konerko was the ALCS MVP.

Yes, Dye was the World Series MVP and Konerko was the ALCS MVP but come on. Anyone watching the Sox from late September through the end of the World Series would acknowledge that Crede was red-hot and a critical reason why the Sox won the World Series. Have you forgetten the 7-6 game against Cleveland in which Crede hit two homers, including the game winner in extra innings? How about Game 2 of the ALCS? Game 1 of the World Series? If baseball had an MVP for the entire playoffs (like the Conn Smythe Trophy for the NHL playoffs), Crede would have won it.

For crying out loud, he was hurt last year. Since 2005, he has played great when he is healthy. Let's see what spring training brings.

oeo
02-01-2008, 05:14 PM
Alright i am hearing that the giants are interested in crede and that makes sense now because of feliz signing with the phillies. First i hear noah lowry's name pop up and then i hear brad hennessey's name. Lowry is not good in the nl and with the stuff he has i am dead set against him coming to the southside (i believe he will get rocked). With hennessey I believe that we have already addressed our bullpen problems with the signings of dotel and linebrink. If we can't get anything better than this crap, i say that we just stick with crede and see what he can give us. I just wanted to see what others think and if any of u guys have heard of any other possible suitors?

Then what do you do with Josh Fields? Just throw him to the side?

He's proven that he belongs in the big leagues. He shouldn't be sent down, nor should he be forced to the bench (or these dumb platoon ideas that are rolling around).

fquaye149
02-01-2008, 05:28 PM
I clearly wrote "they are capable of hitting 20 home runs"

Pedro Feliz averages 20 home runs for every 162 games, and has hit at least 20 home runs the past 4 seasons.

Inge hit 27 homers in 2006.

So shrug your shoulders all you want but you obviously missed my comment of "they (Inge, Crede and Feliz) are capable of hitting 20 home runs."

type bigger. it makes your point stronger

you asked why people value Crede over Inge and Feliz. I suggested one reason.

But seriously--type in bigger letters. Is that as big as the font goes? If there were a bigger font, imagine--you'd be even more right!!!

santo=dorf
02-01-2008, 05:35 PM
type bigger. it makes your point stronger

you asked why people value Crede over Inge and Feliz. I suggested one reason.

But seriously--type in bigger letters. Is that as big as the font goes? If there were a bigger font, imagine--you'd be even more right!!!
That's faulty logic because you think those people would take Crede over Inge and Feliz because he averages more home runs per 162 games yet they are the same people who don't want Josh Fields there despite him averaging 35 homers every 162 games.

fquaye149
02-01-2008, 05:35 PM
That's faulty logic because you think those people would take Crede over Inge and Feliz because he averages more home runs per 162 games yet they are the same people who don't want Josh Fields there despite him averaging 35 homers every 162 games.

I'm not saying Crede is better. You asked why people don't queen out over Inge and Feliz even though they can hit 20 HR.

I showed you a number that suggests that Crede is probably a better HR hitter, which is one reason people value his offense.

If you want to talk about why those people prefer Crede to Fields, maybe it has something to do with the fact that Crede's career OPS is better than Fields and Crede gives you far superior defense to Fields.

I don't really know. Personally I think Inge and Feliz are great players and I would take them for the Sox in a second. Also I prefer Fields to Crede, personally, especially with Crede's injury history and Fields's likelihood of developing significantly as a hitter

Keep talking though.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 05:40 PM
you asked why people value Crede over Inge and Feliz. I suggested one reason.

Because he hit 5 HRs more than Feliz over a 162-game span? Talk about isolating one stat (without even that much of a difference) and ignoring everything else to make a point.

spiffie
02-01-2008, 05:43 PM
Yes, Dye was the World Series MVP and Konerko was the ALCS MVP but come on. Anyone watching the Sox from late September through the end of the World Series would acknowledge that Crede was red-hot and a critical reason why the Sox won the World Series. Have you forgetten the 7-6 game against Cleveland in which Crede hit two homers, including the game winner in extra innings? How about Game 2 of the ALCS? Game 1 of the World Series? If baseball had an MVP for the entire playoffs (like the Conn Smythe Trophy for the NHL playoffs), Crede would have won it.

For crying out loud, he was hurt last year. Since 2005, he has played great when he is healthy. Let's see what spring training brings.
Actually, he played pretty crappy in 1995. He had a great 6 weeks in 2005, and he was putting together a really good 2006 until he fell apart in September. But for most of 2005 he was what he had always been, a good glove with a mediocre bat.

fquaye149
02-01-2008, 05:43 PM
Because he hit 5 HRs more than Feliz over a 162-game span? Talk about isolating one stat (without even that much of a difference) and ignoring everything else to make a point.

Because he averages more than 5 HR over a 162 game span.

It was no more cherry-picked than Santo=dorf's "these guys ALSO have the capability of hitting 20 HR so why aren't they valued". I responded in kind.

Anything else you want to take out of context?

Feliz OPS/Batting Average/HR/Doubles/RBI (162 game average)

721/.252/20/27/77

Crede OPS/BA/HR/2B/RBI (/162 games)

752/.259/25/29/85

I'm not saying Crede's better. Certainly he's no better than a marginal offensive improvement (though his best year(2006) is much better than Feliz' best year(2004). All I'm doing is explaining why White Sox fans who prefer Crede to those two (Inge and Feliz) offensively aren't idiots.

kittle42
02-01-2008, 06:15 PM
All I'm doing is explaining why White Sox fans who prefer Crede to those two (Inge and Feliz) offensively aren't idiots.

I never said they were idiots. I just think there is a sub-set of people putting Crede closer to Rodriguez than they are to Inge, and saying that they only do that because Crede plays for their favorite team, and that seems silly.

FarWestChicago
02-01-2008, 07:02 PM
But seriously--type in bigger letters. Is that as big as the font goes? If there were a bigger font, imagine--you'd be even more right!!!I'll see if I can come up with something where Dorf can type in one billion point font. It will take hundreds of pages to render one character. Imagine how right he would be then. :happyguy:

sircaffey1
02-01-2008, 07:22 PM
Because he averages more than 5 HR over a 162 game span.

It was no more cherry-picked than Santo=dorf's "these guys ALSO have the capability of hitting 20 HR so why aren't they valued". I responded in kind.

Anything else you want to take out of context?

Feliz OPS/Batting Average/HR/Doubles/RBI (162 game average)

721/.252/20/27/77

Crede OPS/BA/HR/2B/RBI (/162 games)

752/.259/25/29/85

I'm not saying Crede's better. Certainly he's no better than a marginal offensive improvement (though his best year(2006) is much better than Feliz' best year(2004). All I'm doing is explaining why White Sox fans who prefer Crede to those two (Inge and Feliz) offensively aren't idiots.

I agree with you, just thought noting that there's a huge difference between US Cellular vs AT&T Park. They are very similar players.

santo=dorf
02-01-2008, 07:35 PM
I'll see if I can come up with something where Dorf can type in one billion point font. It will take hundreds of pages to render one character. Imagine how right he would be then. :happyguy:
I take all requests, even for those in the obnoxious larger font. Facts are facts. Fields, Crede, Feliz, and Ingle have all hit 20 homers in a season. :?:


I'm actually surprised Feliz is only 10th in Joe's BA comparable players. I'm also interested in why stats per 162 games should be used over seasonal averages especially if the guy isn't Miguel Tejada by playing everyday of the season. But that's another topic.

champagne030
02-01-2008, 08:11 PM
Then what do you do with Josh Fields? Just throw him to the side?

He's proven that he belongs in the big leagues. He shouldn't be sent down, nor should he be forced to the bench (or these dumb platoon ideas that are rolling around).

What do you do with Joe Crede? Just throw him to the side? Trade him for a bag of balls just so the Sox can save the owner some money?

All things equal (health, salary, ect.), I believe the Sox are better this year with Crede starting at third. Now, if he can be traded for something valuable or the salary savings are used to sign a foreign free agent or pay above slot money, sign another SP for this season, then that's a completely different debate. And this is all based on Joe being healthy.

sullythered
02-01-2008, 08:29 PM
You meant "boy oh boy" right, Sully?:?:

maybe I should see a shrink... I'm posting on an iPod so misspellings are inevitable. That was an awesome one, though.:tongue:

FarWestChicago
02-01-2008, 10:58 PM
I take all requests, even for those in the obnoxious larger font.I'll have to get back to you on the billion point font. It's been a long hard week and I'm not working any more tonight.

btrain929
02-01-2008, 11:17 PM
What do you do with Joe Crede? Just throw him to the side? Trade him for a bag of balls just so the Sox can save the owner some money?

All things equal (health, salary, ect.), I believe the Sox are better this year with Crede starting at third. Now, if he can be traded for something valuable or the salary savings are used to sign a foreign free agent or pay above slot money, sign another SP for this season, then that's a completely different debate. And this is all based on Joe being healthy.

Unfortunately, this is the real world, so we can say poof, everything is equal. We don't know how healthy Crede will be, and you can't make his salary equal to Josh Fields' salary: there's about a 4.5 million dollar difference between the two.

oeo
02-01-2008, 11:21 PM
What do you do with Joe Crede? Just throw him to the side? Trade him for a bag of balls just so the Sox can save the owner some money?

Oh, puh-lease. Somehow this is being spun to Reinsdorf being cheap? :?:

Fields will be the better player; being cheaper is just an added bonus. Reinsdorf is shelling out quite enough money for this team to be competitive, so don't even go there.

All things equal (health, salary, ect.), I believe the Sox are better this year with Crede starting at third. Now, if he can be traded for something valuable or the salary savings are used to sign a foreign free agent or pay above slot money, sign another SP for this season, then that's a completely different debate. And this is all based on Joe being healthy.Why sign another SP? I'd rather have Floyd out there then some mediocre veteran (who lilkely has major injury problems). So yes, I would trade Crede for a 'bag of balls' (although I don't think Lowry is a 'bag of balls').

champagne030
02-02-2008, 11:18 AM
Oh, puh-lease. Somehow this is being spun to Reinsdorf being cheap? :?:

Yes, :?:. I don't don't know how you spun trading Crede for salary purposes to be cheap. My suggestion was, are we trading Crede to make our team better or cut payroll?

Fields will be the better player; being cheaper is just an added bonus. Reinsdorf is shelling out quite enough money for this team to be competitive, so don't even go there.When? I'm confident that won't be in 2008, if Crede is healthy.



Why sign another SP? I don't trust our 3-5 to all have turnaround/breakout seasons and plan B is Broadway.

I'd rather have Floyd out there then some mediocre veteran (who lilkely has major injury problems). So yes, I would trade Crede for a 'bag of balls' (although I don't think Lowry is a 'bag of balls').I, too, would trade Crede for Lowry today. I don't think that's possible or it would have happened, IMO. The Giants, for example, probably want to see if Crede is relatively healthy.

The point of my response to your original post was that I would prefer to keep Crede and find playing time for Fields (wherever that might be - Charlotte, limited AB's off the bench, blah, blah, blah), assuming that our return is some fringe player, 'B' prospect or a pure salary dump.

fquaye149
02-02-2008, 11:30 AM
Yes, :?:. I don't don't know how you spun trading Crede for salary purposes to be cheap. My suggestion was, are we trading Crede to make our team better or cut payroll?

If Crede WERE traded it would be for the similar reasons Uribe WOULD BE TRADED--not merely because it would cut salary, but because there's no need to carry a 3B (Crede) at a multi-million dollar contract when there's an adequate replacement for whom health is not a major concern and who is not entering a contract year.


When? I'm confident that won't be in 2008, if Crede is healthy.

And I'm confident Thome will hit 40 home runs in 2008 IF he plays in 140 games. However, there's much reason to doubt either one of those things will happen.

champagne030
02-02-2008, 02:33 PM
If Crede WERE traded it would be for the similar reasons Uribe WOULD BE TRADED--not merely because it would cut salary, but because there's no need to carry a 3B (Crede) at a multi-million dollar contract when there's an adequate replacement for whom health is not a major concern and who is not entering a contract year.

Why offer arbitration? I don't think Fields is an adequate replacement this season if we actually trying to get to the playoffs. He's not as good as a healthy Crede in 2008. The only reason he should be traded is if he's not healthy and Fields then becomes a better option or he brings something in return that improves the team to a point that it will allow the downgrade to Fields.

fquaye149
02-02-2008, 03:20 PM
Why offer arbitration? I don't think Fields is an adequate replacement this season if we actually trying to get to the playoffs. He's not as good as a healthy Crede in 2008.

Whether or not you agree with the assessment that Fields is a capable replacement, that would clearly be Kenny's motivation in moving Crede, not money.


The only reason he should be traded is if he's not healthy and Fields then becomes a better option or he brings something in return that improves the team to a point that it will allow the downgrade to Fields.the only way he should be traded is if he's obviously injured and therefore worthless as a trade piece?

Ok...gotcha. :rolleyes:

If Crede's, say, for the sake of argument, a 50% likelihood to be injured this year, and we can get another, say, 50% likelihood to be injured in Lowry to fill an area of desperate need on this team (pitching) while giving up defense at 3B but getting much increased power production AND cutting salary, I would say that's a pretty good deal, no?

Obviously those numbers aren't accurate, and obviously the more Crede's injury likelihood differs determines how good a Crede trade would be for this team.

However, at this point, I think it's safe to say that Crede playing more than 80 games in 2008 is no better odds than a coin flip.

At any rate, it seems obvious to me that a trade of Crede wouldn't be a pure SALARY dump, but rather a way to get something for an injury risk and give a player with huge upside a chance to play, all while, yes, clearing some salary room.

Calling it a salary dump is just plain dumbing it down and oversimplifying it

SoxNation05
02-02-2008, 03:28 PM
:tomatoaward:tomatoaward

champagne030
02-02-2008, 03:47 PM
the only way he should be traded is if he's obviously injured and therefore worthless as a trade piece?

Ok...gotcha. :rolleyes:

Apparently you haven't read my posts.

If Crede's, say, for the sake of argument, a 50% likelihood to be injured this year, and we can get another, say, 50% likelihood to be injured in Lowry to fill an area of desperate need on this team (pitching) while giving up defense at 3B but getting much increased power production AND cutting salary, I would say that's a pretty good deal, no?Again, read my posts. I've said that I'm on board for a Crede and Lowry trade.



However, at this point, I think it's safe to say that Crede playing more than 80 games in 2008 is no better odds than a coin flip.Thanks, Dr. Fquaye. Why offer arbitration if he's such a health risk?


At any rate, it seems obvious to me that a trade of Crede wouldn't be a pure SALARY dump, but rather a way to get something for an injury risk and give a player with huge upside a chance to play, all while, yes, clearing some salary room.

Calling it a salary dump is just plain dumbing it down and oversimplifying itObviously, you haven't read my posts in this thread, but if you're too lazy to read here's a quick recap.

OEO suggested we just cut loose Crede for a bag of balls to make way for Fields. I believe a healthy Crede is better than Fields in 2008. I'm in favor of trading Crede if he brings something back to help the club compensate for the downgrade to Fields (this would be someone like Lowry, but does not include some sack of **** prospect). It makes no sense to dump Crede, at this point, for a non-prospect other than being a pure salary dump because we can do that now, the end of March or in May.

Taliesinrk
02-02-2008, 08:14 PM
I'm not saying Crede is better. You asked why people don't queen out over Inge and Feliz even though they can hit 20 HR.

I showed you a number that suggests that Crede is probably a better HR hitter, which is one reason people value his offense.

If you want to talk about why those people prefer Crede to Fields, maybe it has something to do with the fact that Crede's career OPS is better than Fields and Crede gives you far superior defense to Fields.

I don't really know. Personally I think Inge and Feliz are great players and I would take them for the Sox in a second. Also I prefer Fields to Crede, personally, especially with Crede's injury history and Fields's likelihood of developing significantly as a hitter

Keep talking though.


First, this multi-quote thing is sweet.. thanks guys! Secondly, this pretty much sums up what I was trying to say for the better part of 5 or so hours yesterday... thanks

Yes, Dye was the World Series MVP and Konerko was the ALCS MVP but come on. Anyone watching the Sox from late September through the end of the World Series would acknowledge that Crede was red-hot and a critical reason why the Sox won the World Series. Have you forgetten the 7-6 game against Cleveland in which Crede hit two homers, including the game winner in extra innings? How about Game 2 of the ALCS? Game 1 of the World Series? If baseball had an MVP for the entire playoffs (like the Conn Smythe Trophy for the NHL playoffs), Crede would have won it.

For crying out loud, he was hurt last year. Since 2005, he has played great when he is healthy. Let's see what spring training brings.

Yes. In response to whomever said that my comment "wasn't fact" is correct... it's not. It's an opinion, and one that I think is pretty damn easy to back.

Sockinchisox
02-02-2008, 11:42 PM
I just though about this, and it's purely speculation nothing based on it at all.

But what if we're the ones waiting to see if Crede is healthy and Kenny builds some kind of package around Fields to get Cain from the Giants?

gregory18n
02-03-2008, 03:38 AM
finally someone else that's not convinced Crede done. Fields could score us a front line starter.

Sockinchisox
02-03-2008, 03:44 AM
finally someone else that's not convinced Crede done. Fields could score us a front line starter.

No, I fully expect Crede to be the one that's traded, the previous thought was just something that popped in my head based on the fact that Kenny makes very unexpected trades. I don't even know if whichever one is traded ends up going to the Giants, either one could be going to the Pirates for all we know.

gregory18n
02-03-2008, 04:07 AM
It just seems we could get a real quality pitcher for Fields, whereas Crede really isn't tradeable right now.

kittle42
02-03-2008, 10:17 AM
It just seems we could get a real quality pitcher for Fields, whereas Crede really isn't tradeable right now.

Yes, but why isn't Crede valuable trade bait? Because he's a huge injury question and because he can walk after this season. Those are two things other teams are looking at, and they are the same two things you and I as Sox fans should be concerned about. You can't just say "let's go into the season with Crede at 3B and dump Fields because no one else really wants Crede right now." That's shortsighted.

gregory18n
02-03-2008, 12:36 PM
The risk is worth it if the quality of the pitcher is high enough. It shows Crede a committment to him. If he should burn us, we've got a great pitcher and have to find a 3b, though I'm hopeful Joe will come through the injury & want to stay with the White Sox.

btrain929
02-03-2008, 01:43 PM
I just though about this, and it's purely speculation nothing based on it at all.

But what if we're the ones waiting to see if Crede is healthy and Kenny builds some kind of package around Fields to get Cain from the Giants?

Why would he trade a young affordable 3b for an older more expensive 3b that has already told KW he's hitting free agency?

Sockinchisox
02-03-2008, 02:03 PM
Why would he trade a young affordable 3b for an older more expensive 3b that has already told KW he's hitting free agency?

Because Kenny is weird.

DickAllen72
02-03-2008, 02:31 PM
Why would he trade a young affordable 3b for an older more expensive 3b that has already told KW he's hitting free agency?
Just to be clear, the poster suggested trading Fields for Cain, not for an older 3B going into free agency.

gr8mexico
02-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Is there any chance that Joe Crede and Kenny come to some agreement and he signs a long term agreement. Kenny can always have some great offers for Josh Fields. What would it take to get Joe Blanton or Rich Harden.

mcp5185
02-03-2008, 03:57 PM
I'm not saying Crede is better. You asked why people don't queen out over Inge and Feliz even though they can hit 20 HR.

I showed you a number that suggests that Crede is probably a better HR hitter, which is one reason people value his offense.

If you want to talk about why those people prefer Crede to Fields, maybe it has something to do with the fact that Crede's career OPS is better than Fields and Crede gives you far superior defense to Fields.

I don't really know. Personally I think Inge and Feliz are great players and I would take them for the Sox in a second. Also I prefer Fields to Crede, personally, especially with Crede's injury history and Fields's likelihood of developing significantly as a hitter

Keep talking though.

Joe Crede does not have a better career OPS than Josh Fields. Crede's career OPS is .751. Josh fields has a .785 career OPS, and had .788 last year. Fields is a lot worse in the field, but is clearly the better offensive player. In 100 games last year he put up very similar numbers to Crede's pre 2006 numbers, playing in 30-50 less games. I guess Fields could end up regressing or busting out of the league, but I think it's much more likely he will improve on his hitting and defense.

fquaye149
02-03-2008, 04:08 PM
my mistake

gregory18n
02-03-2008, 05:09 PM
Crede is clutch! And we can get much more for Fields at this point, probably more than he is worth, & we need a quality starter. 3 questionable starters is asking for problems.

Sockinchisox
02-03-2008, 05:26 PM
Is there any chance that Joe Crede and Kenny come to some agreement and he signs a long term agreement. Kenny can always have some great offers for Josh Fields. What would it take to get Joe Blanton or Rich Harden.

More than just Josh Fields, and Oakland has no use for Fields, they have Chavez, unless he gets traded they shouldn't have a need for Fields at all.

santo=dorf
02-03-2008, 06:57 PM
Crede is clutch! And we can get much more for Fields at this point, probably more than he is worth, & we need a quality starter. 3 questionable starters is asking for problems.
...and then next year we can trade a starting pitcher for the hole at third base!

gregory18n
02-03-2008, 10:39 PM
I'de take that chance to get a quality pitcher this year. Joe will stay with us!

kittle42
02-04-2008, 12:12 AM
I'de take that chance to get a quality pitcher this year. Joe will stay with us!

Please post again when you return from Bizarro World.

soxwon
02-04-2008, 12:16 AM
noah wylie?

Jjav829
02-04-2008, 12:47 AM
noah wylie?

Sadly, this is one of the better posts in this thread, particularly from the last page or two.

gr8mexico
02-04-2008, 02:33 PM
What about a trade with the Brewers? Ben Sheets is in his final year of his contract and is owed 11 Mil this year. A straight up trade Joe Crede for Ben Sheets. Both teams take a risk. What do you guys think?

rdivaldi
02-04-2008, 02:36 PM
A straight up trade Joe Crede for Ben Sheets. Both teams take a risk. What do you guys think?

I think that the GM of the Brewers would ask you if you've ever heard of Ryan Braun....

spiffie
02-04-2008, 02:37 PM
What about a trade with the Brewers? Ben Sheets is in his final year of his contract and is owed 11 Mil this year. A straight up trade Joe Crede for Ben Sheets. Both teams take a risk. What do you guys think?
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/electric_shellfish/748411.gif

That about sums up my thoughts on the attempts to trade Crede for front-line starting pitching. Joe Crede is a good fielding 3B who has had one good year at the plate. And oh yeah, he's going into the last year of his deal, has Scott Boras as his agent, and may be plagued by chronic back trouble the rest of the career.

BUT HE'S CLUTCH!

champagne030
02-04-2008, 02:41 PM
I think that the GM of the Brewers would ask you if you've ever heard of Ryan Braun....

Ryan Braun makes Josh Fields look like a good third baseman. Anyway, Braun is being moved to LF this season and Bill Hall is moving to third with the Cameron signing.

fquaye149
02-04-2008, 02:43 PM
I think that the GM of the Brewers would ask you if you've ever heard of Ryan Braun....

The Brewers are trying to get Braun off third base because he's a butcher with the glove.

However, Crede for Sheets is ridiculous, even though Sheets IS a health risk

rdivaldi
02-04-2008, 02:44 PM
Ryan Braun makes Josh Fields look like a good third baseman. Anyway, Braun is being moved to LF this season and Bill Hall is moving to third with the Cameron signing.

LOL! He's not that bad, but yes his defense at the corner needs some improvement. Either way, the Brewers GM would laugh off such an idea.

gr8mexico
02-04-2008, 02:47 PM
I think that the GM of the Brewers would ask you if you've ever heard of Ryan Braun....
Try to inform yourself a little bit more then besides White Sox baseball . Ryan is moving to the OF and the Brewers have about 7 starting pitchers.Ben Sheets has a history injuries.

champagne030
02-04-2008, 02:47 PM
LOL! He's not that bad, but yes his defense at the corner needs some improvement. Either way, the Brewers GM would laugh off such an idea.

Absolutely!

sircaffey1
02-04-2008, 02:52 PM
Braun is a disaster at 3B. His fielding percentage was under .900. He's as good at 3B as Prince Fielder would be in CF. That said, Bill Hall is going to be a fine 3B. Sheets for Crede is absurd. Lets trade Ozuna to the Mets for Pedro while we're at it.

fquaye149
02-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Try to inform yourself a little bit more then besides White Sox baseball . Ryan is moving to the OF and the Brewers have about 7 starting pitchers.Ben Sheets has a history injuries.

And Crede's fit a a fiddle?

diehardRLsoxfan
02-04-2008, 03:36 PM
If we trade Crede for Sheets straight up I will run through town naked as the day I was born and pronounce my love for the genius who is Kenny Williams!:KW What a steal of a deal dude!!:bandance:

Jjav829
02-04-2008, 03:59 PM
If we trade Crede for Sheets straight up I will run through town naked as the day I was born and pronounce my love for the genius who is Kenny Williams!:KW What a steal of a deal dude!!:bandance:

Keep your clothes on there, buddy. It's just some made-up trade by a poster. It has no chance of happening.

Breaking news on MLB trade rumors: Kenny Williams talking to Doug Melvin about a Crede for Sheets deal! :tongue:

SoxNation05
02-04-2008, 05:24 PM
I have never seen a 235 thread of 95% garbage. To say we can get Sheets for Crede this is utterly ridiculous. I would like to thank santo=dorf, and his giant font, from stopping this thread from becoming Crede for Santana or Crede for Chris Carpenter. Maybe Crede for Carpenter would work since they're both injury risks! We might be giving up too much, I mean Crede is CLUTCH!

gogosox16
02-04-2008, 05:47 PM
I have never seen a 235 thread of 95% garbage. To say we can get Sheets for Crede this is utterly ridiculous. I would like to thank santo=dorf, and his giant font, from stopping this thread from becoming Crede for Santana or Crede for Chris Carpenter. Maybe Crede for Carpenter would work since they're both injury risks! We might be giving up too much, I mean Crede is CLUTCH!
Onlly Carpenter? I thought for sure we got get Pujols with, if we added Dewon Day.

SoxNation05
02-04-2008, 05:50 PM
Onlly Carpenter? I thought for sure we got get Pujols with, if we added Dewon Day.
Seems unlikely because the Sox are currently discussing a 6yr 120 mil deal with Day.

gogosox16
02-04-2008, 05:51 PM
Seems unlikely because the Sox are currently discussing a 6yr 120 mil deal with Day.
Dam, why did he have to be such a ******* and want so much money.

rdivaldi
02-04-2008, 05:57 PM
Try to inform yourself a little bit more then besides White Sox baseball . Ryan is moving to the OF and the Brewers have about 7 starting pitchers.Ben Sheets has a history injuries.

:rolleyes:

Wow! With all of the jerk responses flying around I'm definitely ready for the season to start...

gogosox16
02-04-2008, 05:58 PM
:rolleyes:

Wow! With all of the jerk responses flying around I'm definitely ready for the season to start...
right there with ya.

gogosox16
02-04-2008, 05:59 PM
how many days till pitchers and catchers report?

Rockabilly
02-29-2008, 11:34 AM
A report here in SF from a Giants beat writer who was on the radio said a deal for Crede could happen with in the next week because of the injuries to Visquel and Durham. He also mention that the Sox are not interested in Lowry because of his elbow problems.

Taliesinrk
02-29-2008, 12:43 PM
A report here in SF from a Giants beat writer who was on the radio said a deal for Crede could happen with in the next week because of the injuries to Visquel and Durham. He also mention that the Sox are not interested in Lowry because of his elbow problems.

NO! We WILL miss Joe Crede: book it. I'm not arguing that Josh Fields will or will not be better than Crede EVENTUALLY, but this is not the proper time to trade him. I still think this team's chances would be better for the future if we figure out how to hang onto both Crede and Fields until Thome is gone. Having both those guys for the future would be great. Crede will not bring enough back in a trade. He is a heck of a ballplayer (althogh some around here want to discount his performance), and needs time to show he's healthy again.

On the plus side, at least we're not going for Lowry.. he's bad news.

CHIsoxNation
02-29-2008, 12:52 PM
A report here in SF from a Giants beat writer who was on the radio said a deal for Crede could happen with in the next week because of the injuries to Visquel and Durham. He also mention that the Sox are not interested in Lowry because of his elbow problems.

I know it would probably never happen but it would be nice if we could throw in one or two of our 4 second base candidates and some other pieces to land Cain or Lincecum.

soltrain21
02-29-2008, 12:58 PM
I know it would probably never happen but it would be nice if we could throw in one or two of our 4 second base candidates and some other pieces to land Cain or Lincecum.


I think Lincecum has the nickname "The Future" for a reason, and I doubt that reason involves trading him for an injury prone 3rd baseman and a 2nd baseman that has to fight for a starting position.

Craig Grebeck
02-29-2008, 01:05 PM
NO! We WILL miss Joe Crede: I am using the tired, overused phrase "book it" because I actually have nothing interesting to say. I'm not arguing that Josh Fields will or will not be better than Crede EVENTUALLY, but this is not the proper time to trade him. I still think this team's chances would be better for the future if we figure out how to hang onto both Crede and Fields until Thome is gone. Having both those guys for the future would be great. Crede will not bring enough back in a trade. He is a heck of a ballplayer (althogh some around here want to discount his performance), and needs time to show he's healthy again.

On the plus side, at least we're not going for Lowry.. he's bad news.
Define: heck of a ballplayer, please.

spiffie
02-29-2008, 01:06 PM
Define: heck of a ballplayer, please.
He's Clutch!

Rockabilly
02-29-2008, 01:22 PM
According to a radio report the Sox had no scouts to watch Lowry pitch aganist the Cubs..

btrain929
02-29-2008, 01:27 PM
I wonder if Uribe or one of our plethora of 2b's would be paired with Crede. He helps the Giants at 3B, but not at SS or 2B where they just recently had injuries.....

Lincecum is absolutely out of the question. But, man, if we could get Cain, that'd be amazing. I'm not even going to speculate on a package because either way it wouldn't make sense and probably not be enough...