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Lillian
01-23-2008, 09:02 AM
With the acquisition of Dotel, I'm starting to feel really good about this team.
Oh sure, I wish they had a true lead off hitter, and they are really stretching it a bit to consider Swisher a full time center fielder, but they do have a lot of talent assembled.

That said, the one big question mark seems to be that starting rotation. Aside from all of the trade, and free agent signing speculation for another starter, what else can the Sox do to fill out the rotation?

What do you all think of the possibility of Jenks returning to a starting role?
I understand that he has become a premier closer, but hear me out on this one.
1) He has always contended that he would like to start, and has reiterated such, as recently as this week.
2) The Sox now have a viable alternative at closer with Dotel.
3) Jenks is a "horse", and could probably hold up very well in the role of starter.
4) Perhaps starting is a better way to maximize his value

Well, what do think?

Sargeant79
01-23-2008, 09:04 AM
With the acquisition of Dotel, I'm starting to feel really good about this team.
Oh sure, I wish they had a true lead off hitter, and they are really stretching it a bit to consider Swisher a full time center fielder, but they do have a lot of talent assembled.

That said, the one big question mark seems to be that starting rotation. Aside from all of the trade, and free agent signing speculation for another starter, what else can the Sox do to fill out the rotation?

What do you all think of the possibility of Jenks returning to a starting role?
I understand that he has become a premier closer, but hear me out on this one.
1) He has always contended that he would like to start, and has reiterated such, as recently as this week.
2) The Sox now have a viable alternative at closer with Dotel.
3) Jenks is a "horse", and could probably hold up very well in the role of starter.
4) Perhaps starting is a better way to maximize his value

Well, what do think?

No chance.

Dominating closers don't grow on trees, and Jenks has had much more success in that role in his admittedly brief career than Dotel did in his healthy closer years. His value to the Sox is maximized by where he's at.

Frater Perdurabo
01-23-2008, 09:19 AM
Intriguing idea, but I'd rather not take the risk. Jenks has excelled as a closer and with Dotel and Linebrink pushing MacDougal and Thornton to middle relief where they belong, the Sox bullpen suddenly looks like a real strength.

Although I too have concerns about the lack of a leadoff hitter (I think it's possible the job could be filled internally), I think this offense will score enough runs to get the game to the bullpen. Therefore, I don't want to weaken the bullpen to take a risk that Jenks might or might not pan out as a starter. If Jenks had previous successful MLB starting experience - like John Smoltz - I'd consider it. But Jenks doesn't and I just don't think it's worth the risk.

So, I agree that the Sox need one more starter. But I'd rather make a run at Livan Hernandez or Bartolo Colon.

WhiteSox5187
01-23-2008, 09:45 AM
Having Jenks move to a starter role would be like when had Gossage move to that role...there's just no point in moving one of the best at their role to another one.

Chicken Dinner
01-23-2008, 10:30 AM
Jenks will not move, but another proven starter would be sweet.

oeo
01-23-2008, 10:35 AM
With the acquisition of Dotel, I'm starting to feel really good about this team.
Oh sure, I wish they had a true lead off hitter, and they are really stretching it a bit to consider Swisher a full time center fielder, but they do have a lot of talent assembled.

Well, at least we're not the Twins who don't have a leadoff hitter and have the idea of Kubel starting in CF. :rolling:

That said, the one big question mark seems to be that starting rotation. Aside from all of the trade, and free agent signing speculation for another starter, what else can the Sox do to fill out the rotation?

What do you all think of the possibility of Jenks returning to a starting role?
I understand that he has become a premier closer, but hear me out on this one.
1) He has always contended that he would like to start, and has reiterated such, as recently as this week.
2) The Sox now have a viable alternative at closer with Dotel.
3) Jenks is a "horse", and could probably hold up very well in the role of starter.
4) Perhaps starting is a better way to maximize his value

Well, what do think?

I believe the reason he was taken out of the starting role was the question of whether he could stay healthy. Don't screw up his career by jerking him around.

Rockabilly
01-23-2008, 10:36 AM
If the Sox can sign Livan Hernandez to be our 4th starter.. Trade Crede to the Angels for Reggie Willits than I will be happy with this off season and think we can compete with the Tigers and Clev

Bucky F. Dent
01-23-2008, 10:46 AM
I reasonably expect that some combination of the candidates for the rotation that we have on the roster today (Jenks not included) is where we will be on opening day: Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd (with Broadway, Haeger, and Egbert waiting in the wings). A reasonably effective Colon would have been a good addition, but he is apparently not there (i.e. reasonably effective) right now.

The only opportunity that the Sox will have to improve the rotation, or the squad generally, outside of who is currently on the roster, will come IF and when Crede proves himself healthy during spring training, and we have the opportunity to move either him or Fields, or (and this obviously won't return as much) if someone becomes desperate, I mean DESPERATE, for a middle infield, and we can move Uribe.

Unless spring training reveals a major weakness, I suspect that one or the other of those two moves will be the only action that we will see from Kenny before the start of the season, and we likely will not see either of those moves.

russ99
01-23-2008, 10:46 AM
If the Sox can sign Livan Hernandez to be our 4th starter.. Trade Crede to the Angels for Reggie Willits than I will be happy with this off season and think we can compete with the Tigers and Clev

The only problem is that Livan wants a multi-year deal at pretty good money, which I doubt Kenny will do. He's only looking for bargain basement guys, like Colon.

I agree we still need one more starter, but perhaps trading Crede can get us one at the end of spring training or a month or two into the season, since there are a lot of off days where they can skip a start during the first 2 months, and a healthy Joe is a lot more valuable.

Domeshot17
01-23-2008, 10:47 AM
I will pass on Livan, he has a rubber arm, but that is his only plus right now.

This idea with Jenks is a bad idea. Remember how Danks ran out of gas (as a lot of rookie pitchers do) when he got into the last quarter of the season. That is what Jenks would be looking forward too most of the second half. He has trained himself to be a 40-60 game, 50-60 IP pitcher. He dominates because he can let it fly for 1-2 innings.= Now you want him to retrain himself, get his endurance up and become a 185 ip pitcher. I do not see it working, and I especially don't see him being nearly as dominant. Jenks already has shown he can't consistently let it fly at 98+, I would hate to see him at 90 in the 6th inning.

I know I am in the minority, but I like our rotation. It hinges on Contreras, but that is not such a bad thing. Contreras is fixable. His velocity was ok last year, and his pitches had movement, it was just pitch selection and location killing him, and those are 2 things Coop can fix in an offseason and spring.

I like Danks, he is only 1 year removed from being a higher prospect then Mccarthy. He pithed better then his numbers showed last year and has some upside, and Floyd does not have to be GREAT as a 5th sp. He has to win 10-14 games with a low 5 era, and it will be ok, anything more is a bonus. The front 4 has to be strong, but I think it is stronger then people think. I also have confidence Brodway can replace Danks or Floyd if he has too.

Corlose 15
01-23-2008, 10:53 AM
I will pass on Livan, he has a rubber arm, but that is his only plus right now.

This idea with Jenks is a bad idea. Remember how Danks ran out of gas (as a lot of rookie pitchers do) when he got into the last quarter of the season. That is what Jenks would be looking forward too most of the second half. He has trained himself to be a 40-60 game, 50-60 IP pitcher. He dominates because he can let it fly for 1-2 innings.= Now you want him to retrain himself, get his endurance up and become a 185 ip pitcher. I do not see it working, and I especially don't see him being nearly as dominant. Jenks already has shown he can't consistently let it fly at 98+, I would hate to see him at 90 in the 6th inning.

I know I am in the minority, but I like our rotation. It hinges on Contreras, but that is not such a bad thing. Contreras is fixable. His velocity was ok last year, and his pitches had movement, it was just pitch selection and location killing him, and those are 2 things Coop can fix in an offseason and spring.

I like Danks, he is only 1 year removed from being a higher prospect then Mccarthy. He pithed better then his numbers showed last year and has some upside, and Floyd does not have to be GREAT as a 5th sp. He has to win 10-14 games with a low 5 era, and it will be ok, anything more is a bonus. The front 4 has to be strong, but I think it is stronger then people think. I also have confidence Brodway can replace Danks or Floyd if he has too.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I really don't see what Hernandez and Colon can add that the Sox don't already have. Especially if Colon is only touching the low nineties.

I'm really excited to see what this team can do.

Rockabilly
01-23-2008, 10:56 AM
Livan can give us 200 IP and saving our bullpen will be a huge help .. As each day goes by I think the player salary demands will come down a bit

russ99
01-23-2008, 11:00 AM
I will pass on Livan, he has a rubber arm, but that is his only plus right now.

This idea with Jenks is a bad idea. Remember how Danks ran out of gas (as a lot of rookie pitchers do) when he got into the last quarter of the season. That is what Jenks would be looking forward too most of the second half. He has trained himself to be a 40-60 game, 50-60 IP pitcher. He dominates because he can let it fly for 1-2 innings.= Now you want him to retrain himself, get his endurance up and become a 185 ip pitcher. I do not see it working, and I especially don't see him being nearly as dominant. Jenks already has shown he can't consistently let it fly at 98+, I would hate to see him at 90 in the 6th inning.

I know I am in the minority, but I like our rotation. It hinges on Contreras, but that is not such a bad thing. Contreras is fixable. His velocity was ok last year, and his pitches had movement, it was just pitch selection and location killing him, and those are 2 things Coop can fix in an offseason and spring.

I like Danks, he is only 1 year removed from being a higher prospect then Mccarthy. He pithed better then his numbers showed last year and has some upside, and Floyd does not have to be GREAT as a 5th sp. He has to win 10-14 games with a low 5 era, and it will be ok, anything more is a bonus. The front 4 has to be strong, but I think it is stronger then people think. I also have confidence Brodway can replace Danks or Floyd if he has too.

Agree.

There's been some questioning by Sox brass how many more years Jenks can pitch like that without injury anyway. Keep him as closer and rotate in Dotel and Linebrink when he needs a rest, or one of them can take over if Jenks goes down.

I'd like to see another vet added to the rotation mix just to bring some urgency to guys like Floyd and Broadway this spring. I'd like that 5th starter to earn the job and not be anointed, like Kenny's done with Floyd since Jon was traded.

Still, I think we can expect Contreras to have a bit of a bounceback, Danks to have an even better year with more stamina and someone in the 5 spot capable of going 5+ innings an outing.

Also, if that 5th spot isn't working out a month or two into the season, Kenny can always make a deal.

Zisk77
01-23-2008, 11:15 AM
1. Jenks had arm problems as a starter. He's one of the best closer's in the game, next to david weathers and the other 28 closers that are better than him :o:, why screw with that.

2. Livan Hernandez is Old, fat, and pretty much refuses to throw strikes. He tries to have anxious hitter schase his pitch. He is constantly behind in the count resulting walks and hits. And then he holds runners on about as well as Freddie Garcia. Watching him pitch will be an exercise in frustration....kind of like watching the Illini run offense this year.

3. If we must trade crede to the Halos I'd prefer Figgins or Santana. It seems Willits is the flavor of the month, but I'm not sold he will be a good major leaguer.

twentywontowin
01-23-2008, 11:17 AM
Jenks has a fused elbow IIRC, that's why he is only throwing one inning. :D:

Sargeant79
01-23-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm also in agreement with those who are cautiously optimistic about the rotation. There may be a chance that it completely blows up, but I think there is just as good of a chance that it works out okay. I think it's not unreasonable to hope for 2 out of Danks, Floyd, and Broadway to have respectable seasons. I also don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility for one of those to really step up and have a good year.

Of course, Contreras is a wild-card too. But I like all of our internal options better than what is currently on the market.

KenBerryGrab
01-23-2008, 11:42 AM
Livan could be Contreras' confidante, though, and that might be worth a lot.:cool:

whitem0nkey
01-23-2008, 11:58 AM
I hate to use other sports, but the jenks starting suggestion kind of reminds me of what the bears did with mark Anderson.

sox1970
01-23-2008, 12:29 PM
Yeah, I agree with keeping the starters they have unless they can get Erik Bedard.

Noah Lowry, Freddy, Bartolo Colon, Livan Hernandez---nah. I'd rather see how Danks and Floyd do.

turners56
01-23-2008, 04:37 PM
Bobby's velocity already dipped after closing for 2 seasons. Don't think he's gonna be throwing gas anymore after pitching 200 innings a year (that's a big IF). Plus he's still a two pitch pitcher, he'll give you an occasional slider, that's not enough variety for a successful starter. It's like trying to put Papelbon in the stater position, it doesn't workout. On top of that...Dotel is a horrible closer, the last thing we want is closer by committee in a shaky bullpen.

DickAllen72
01-23-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't see Jenks ever being a starter.

Matt Thornton on the other hand.....

munchman33
01-23-2008, 06:25 PM
Kenny said that strengthening the bullpen was his first priority this offseason. Not crippling it.

Next topic.

sircaffey1
01-23-2008, 06:50 PM
Jenks has a fused elbow IIRC, that's why he is only throwing one inning. :D:

That's what I thought as well. I believe he has a screw in his elbow.

chisox77
01-23-2008, 11:07 PM
Jenks is the closer. That's his greatest value to the White Sox. In fact, he is one of the top five closers in the game.


:cool:

sullythered
01-23-2008, 11:40 PM
Bobby's velocity already dipped after closing for 2 seasons. Don't think he's gonna be throwing gas anymore after pitching 200 innings a year (that's a big IF). Plus he's still a two pitch pitcher, he'll give you an occasional slider, that's not enough variety for a successful starter. It's like trying to put Papelbon in the stater position, it doesn't workout. On top of that...Dotel is a horrible closer, the last thing we want is closer by committee in a shaky bullpen.


Not at all a two pitch pitcher last year. He started throwing an awesome cutter. Don't start him, though. Real legit closers are super rare.

Daver
01-23-2008, 11:56 PM
Not at all a two pitch pitcher last year. He started throwing an awesome cutter. Don't start him, though. Real legit closers are super rare.

A closer has to be the most over rated thing I have ever seen in my lifetime. The stat of saves is the second most over rated, and the stat for a hold should not exist, period.

sircaffey1
01-24-2008, 12:03 AM
A closer has to be the most over rated thing I have ever seen in my lifetime. The stat of saves is the second most over rated, and the stat for a hold should not exist, period.

Completely agree. I would move Bobby to the rotation if there was any chance he could become a good SP. Unfortunately, there is no chance. I would also have no problem with parting with Bobby for another SP.

drewcifer
01-24-2008, 12:47 AM
I would also have no problem with parting with Bobby for another SP.

You'd have problems if you were the White Sox GM doing that, I guarantee you.

hi im skot
01-24-2008, 02:07 AM
I would also have no problem with parting with Bobby for another SP.

:o:

sullythered
01-24-2008, 07:44 AM
A closer has to be the most over rated thing I have ever seen in my lifetime. The stat of saves is the second most over rated, and the stat for a hold should not exist, period.

Then how come there are so many quality setup guys that just flat-out can't do it? I really couldn't disagree with you more. It's a big psychological advantage to have a dominant closer, too. When the boogeyman comes in, game over.

bigsoxfan420
01-24-2008, 10:03 AM
I don't think I could handle watching Jenks' OCD movements before each pitch for an entire game. Plus he works in the closers roll too well. I would like to see another MLB starter on the staff though.

Frater Perdurabo
01-24-2008, 11:17 AM
I don't think I could handle watching Jenks' OCD movements before each pitch for an entire game.

:rolling: You've got that right...