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View Full Version : What if Fields Doesn't Pan Out?


WhiteSox5187
01-22-2008, 01:00 PM
I hate to be a dark cloud, but I keep hearing this talk saying "We can get rid of Crede because we ahve a monster in the making in Fields..." well...he wouldn't exactly be the first prospect to have a great half a year and then fall off the face of the earth, would he? If his '07 was a fluke (which I don't think it was for the record) what's plan B? Uribe? Ozuna? Hold on to Crede?

getonbckthr
01-22-2008, 01:15 PM
I hate to be a dark cloud, but I keep hearing this talk saying "We can get rid of Crede because we ahve a monster in the making in Fields..." well...he wouldn't exactly be the first prospect to have a great half a year and then fall off the face of the earth, would he? If his '07 was a fluke (which I don't think it was for the record) what's plan B? Uribe? Ozuna? Hold on to Crede?
Not comparing him to these guys but: What if Frank Thomas, Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols etc etc etc etc never panned out?

soltrain21
01-22-2008, 01:17 PM
What if the world blows up tomorrow?

Foulke You
01-22-2008, 01:26 PM
Fields had almost 4 solid months in MLB last year and he looked like he was ready for prime time offensively. He needs to cut down on his strikeouts but he definitely looks to be a 30-40HR/95-120 RBI potential hitter. 4 months is a long time for scouts and pitchers to figure out weaknesses but Josh hit well over the course of the season. There are no guarantees for sure but at some point you have to trust your top prospects, especially ones that have shown they can hit at the big league level over an extended stretch.

soxinem1
01-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Usually someone who puts up the HR/RBI numbers like Fields did in a short span of time should be expected for a bit of a drop backwards.

But it's not like he did what Shane Spencer did a few years ago with NYY when he hit 10 HR's and had a .370+ BA in like 60 AB's.

At the same token, sometimes you just have to say 'What the Hell', and let him play.

Don't draft these guys and not give them a chance.

Besides, any player can be a 'what if':

What if they tear a shoulder muscle?
Break a leg?
Lose velocity?
Lose off-speed pitches?
Lose speed?
Lose power?
Have an off-year?
Die?

Anyone in MLB can fall, and will fall, eventually, performance-wise. It's just a matter of when.

balke
01-22-2008, 01:27 PM
I don't even know what kind of answer you'd expect from this question.

What if they stop serving beer at U.S. Cellular?

diehardRLsoxfan
01-22-2008, 01:32 PM
What if they stop serving beer at U.S. Cellular?


Is this something they are considering? Can I cancel my season tix now?

thomas35forever
01-22-2008, 01:34 PM
Will Fields be our third baseman this coming year? Most likely. Is Crede coming back? Who knows? However, I agree with soxinem that you can't not give your draftees a chance. Fields has yet to play a full year at the ML level, so we don't know yet what he can do over a 162-game stand.

Tragg
01-22-2008, 01:59 PM
Let's trade him for a proven mediocre veteran right now - we'll make sure we don't end up with nothing.

spiffie
01-22-2008, 02:12 PM
We could always trade to get Andy Gonzalez back.

Zisk77
01-22-2008, 02:51 PM
I believe Field's K's will decrease. Consider:

he struck a lot his first month because any pitcher with a decent fb just threw it by him. He was basically a breaking ball hitter his first month. (his first Hr in Pitt, was even on a curve). As he acclimated himself with big league pitching his bat sped up and he began mashing the fb (still had problems up in the strike zone though).

He will also learn the pitchers and ecognize how he's being pitched. Experience is a great teacher.

He will no longer have to defend the "rookie" strike zone.

He still needs to avoid the high strikes and work more hitters counts. i think he'll be fine and adequate to good defensively....Just not Crede/Ventura good. But he may be better offensively than Crede and he can run a little too.

kjhanson
01-22-2008, 03:01 PM
You can ask this about any player for nearly any year.

(In Jan. 2007)

What if Jermaine Dye only hits .254?
What if Paul Konerko only hits .259 with 90 RBI?
What if the bullpen can't hold a lead?

Answer: We lose 90 ballgames.

(In Jan. 2005)

What happens if Frank Thomas only plays 34 games?
What if Shingo has an ERA of 5.97?
What if nobody hits .300?

Answer: we win 110 ballgames and a World Series.

In other words, if we have misfortune or poor performance, one of two things will happen - someone will step up and pick up the slack - or somebody won't. Good luck finding the answer on January 22nd.

DickAllen72
01-22-2008, 03:19 PM
Fields needs to become adept at hitting fastballs and his defense at 3B needs to improve drastically. Only time will tell.

There comes a time when you have to take a chance and let one of your better prospects play. Such is the case with Fields.

Corlose 15
01-22-2008, 03:47 PM
http://www.hollywoodstandups.com/images/homerIntense.jpg
"Pfft, what if. What if I'm taking a shower and I slip on a bar of soap?

pierzynski07
01-22-2008, 04:03 PM
http://www.hollywoodstandups.com/images/homerIntense.jpg
"Pfft, what if. What if I'm taking a shower and I slip on a bar of soap?

"Oh my god, I'd be killed!"

KyWhiSoxFan
01-22-2008, 04:57 PM
What if Fields is even better in 2008?

DickAllen72
01-22-2008, 06:11 PM
What if Fields is even better in 2008?
That would be good.

sullythered
01-22-2008, 06:45 PM
He looks like a monster power-wise, but he has yet to show he can hit for average or get on base consistently. From what I've seen so far, he can max out in Adam Dunn territory, which is good, but not great.

And just "cutting down" on his strikeouts isn't going to even nearly cut it. He needs to strike out about half as often as he does.

Edit: He'll need to up his OBP by about eighty points before he gets to Dunn territory.

chisox77
01-22-2008, 08:46 PM
Josh Fields will be fine.


:cool:

KyWhiSoxFan
01-22-2008, 09:04 PM
I don't think Fields is one of the things you have to worry about: He's not at the top of any such list. First you have to worry about whether the Sox have five good starting pitchers, if they have a legitimatea leadoff hitter, if all the veterans of last year as whole can rebound from a poor year, if the bullpen cannot blow 23 saves like last year, etc.

I worry about all those things before I even think about Fields (and not as a hitter, either, but as a fielder).

PalehosePlanet
01-22-2008, 10:00 PM
I believe Field's K's will decrease. Consider:

he struck a lot his first month because any pitcher with a decent fb just threw it by him. He was basically a breaking ball hitter his first month. (his first Hr in Pitt, was even on a curve). As he acclimated himself with big league pitching his bat sped up and he began mashing the fb (still had problems up in the strike zone though).

He will also learn the pitchers and ecognize how he's being pitched. Experience is a great teacher.

He will no longer have to defend the "rookie" strike zone.

Also he won't be batting in the 2 hole anymore where he took strikes to allow Owens a chance to steal 2nd base. At times he'd also swing at bad pitches to protect Jerry Owens and distract the catcher.

The really good news: I like the way he was able to hit tough lefties such as Sabathia and Santana as the season wore on.

He'll only get better with more experience, including defensively.

Daver
01-22-2008, 10:06 PM
He'll only get better with more experience, including defensively.

This amuses me to no end.

He has played third base for over ten years, and all of a sudden he is going to improve? You don't learn reflexes or range, they are what they are, what you are seeing is what you get, a mediocre third baseman. I think Micah Schnurstein might play a better defensive third base, and he was moved to second base.

Huisj
01-22-2008, 10:32 PM
What if Fields is even better in 2008?

If that happens, he's going to demand a lot in arbitration after a few more years, and by 2012 he'll probably be looking for a long term deal and have an agent who KW doesn't like, and he'll have to go, so that's definitely a problem that must be looked out for. Better hope Crede's back is ok.

cburns
01-22-2008, 10:35 PM
This amuses me to no end.

He has played third base for over ten years, and all of a sudden he is going to improve? You don't learn reflexes or range, they are what they are, what you are seeing is what you get, a mediocre third baseman. I think Micah Schnurstein might play a better defensive third base, and he was moved to second base.

Was Fields that bad in LF? I don't really remember how he did in the outfield. Optimally I'd like to have both Fields and Crede in the lineup.

Daver
01-22-2008, 10:45 PM
Was Fields that bad in LF? I don't really remember how he did in the outfield. Optimally I'd like to have both Fields and Crede in the lineup.

Perhaps you missed the flyballs he lost looking at the bill of his hat?

oeo
01-22-2008, 10:45 PM
This amuses me to no end.

He has played third base for over ten years, and all of a sudden he is going to improve? You don't learn reflexes or range, they are what they are, what you are seeing is what you get, a mediocre third baseman. I think Micah Schnurstein might play a better defensive third base, and he was moved to second base.

I disagree that reflexes cannot still be improved with the right instructors/drills, and the time/effort is put forth. But regardless, those were not his only issues. Simple things like fielding ground balls, knowing the situation, etc. are also problems he had in '07. He can definitely be a lot better than he showed in 2007 if the effort is there.

Mediocre is probably still the right word, though.

Was Fields that bad in LF? I don't really remember how he did in the outfield. Optimally I'd like to have both Fields and Crede in the lineup.

He was pretty bad. Although, I read somewhere that some scouts said he could become a solid left fielder with time. I don't think that's a direction the organization wants to go anymore, though. They've already stockpiled enough corner outfielders, they don't need one more.

Daver
01-22-2008, 10:50 PM
I disagree that reflexes cannot still be improved with the right instructors/drills, and the time/effort is put forth. But regardless, those were not his only issues. Simple things like fielding ground balls, knowing the situation, etc. are also problems he had in '07. He can definitely be a lot better than he showed in 2007 if the effort is there.

Better at what? Getting closer to the grounder he missed off the bat? Missing it by fractions of an inch compared to inches? How exactly do you improve reflexes and range?

NardiWasHere
01-22-2008, 10:59 PM
This amuses me to no end.

He has played third base for over ten years, and all of a sudden he is going to improve? You don't learn reflexes or range, they are what they are, what you are seeing is what you get, a mediocre third baseman. I think Micah Schnurstein might play a better defensive third base, and he was moved to second base.

Better at what? Getting closer to the grounder he missed off the bat? Missing it by fractions of an inch compared to inches? How exactly do you improve reflexes and range?

So Daver, are you telling me that it is impossible for an athlete to improve a part of their game at the professional/highest level? I don't know if I agree with that.

I remember Crede improving his defense after he was brought up.

WhiteSox5187
01-22-2008, 11:14 PM
So Daver, are you telling me that it is impossible for an athlete to improve a part of their game at the professional/highest level? I don't know if I agree with that.

I remember Crede improving his defense after he was brought up.
If Daver says it, it must be true.

oeo
01-22-2008, 11:14 PM
Better at what? Getting closer to the grounder he missed off the bat? Missing it by fractions of an inch compared to inches? How exactly do you improve reflexes and range?

Well, better range comes with having better reflexes. So you train your reflexes to see the ball off the bat faster, and get the quicker step.

It's entirely possible that he was never put through extensive defensive training, especially considering he was a two-sport athlete. If he's gone through it all, and this is what we've got, then I guess you're right. I still disagree that reflexes are something that cannot be learned, though. You think the reflexes of a third baseman, a hockey goalie, etc. are all natural?

kaufsox
01-22-2008, 11:43 PM
So Daver, are you telling me that it is impossible for an athlete to improve a part of their game at the professional/highest level? I don't know if I agree with that.

I remember Crede improving his defense after he was brought up.

not only did Crede improve after he was brought up, other players have taken on whole new positions and done pretty well for instance, didn't Alex Rodriguez never play third base before coming to the Yankees? Of course there is that Fisk in the outfield episode...

Grzegorz
01-23-2008, 04:36 AM
Well, better range comes with having better reflexes. So you train your reflexes to see the ball off the bat faster, and get the quicker step.

How does one train their reflexes? One can improve their footwork or learn to anticipate but how does one train their reflexes?

If he's gone through it all, and this is what we've got, then I guess you're right. I still disagree that reflexes are something that cannot be learned, though.

I don't get this statement. If reflexes are a function of learning and training why would there be a cap ("and this is what we've got") on the level of reflexes for an individual?


You think the reflexes of a third baseman, a hockey goalie, etc. are all natural?

Yes, God given ability plays a major role.

didn't Alex Rodriguez never play third base before coming to the Yankees?

I wouldn't compare Josh Fields to Alex Rodriguez in terms of athlete ability.

If Fields is the third baseman of the future accept what you'll get: an average third baseman. Josh Fields will never compare to Joe Crede defensively.

Frater Perdurabo
01-23-2008, 07:56 AM
Daver, if you were the manager or GM, what would YOU do with Fields?

kaufsox
01-23-2008, 12:05 PM
How does one train their reflexes? One can improve their footwork or learn to anticipate but how does one train their reflexes?

I sleep in a chair, only for an hour and crouch as often as I can to be in a position of cat-like readiness... but that's just me

turners56
01-23-2008, 03:20 PM
Only thing that would make Fields a bust is if he's injured left and right. It doesn't look that way, so I think he's a definitely a big bright spot in the future.

PalehosePlanet
01-23-2008, 09:23 PM
This amuses me to no end.

He has played third base for over ten years, and all of a sudden he is going to improve? You don't learn reflexes or range, they are what they are, what you are seeing is what you get, a mediocre third baseman. I think Micah Schnurstein might play a better defensive third base, and he was moved to second base.

Daver, I know you're as big a Crede fan as there is but to try and say that a 24 year old cannot hone his craft and become better at it with experience is just plain wrong.

Robin Ventura when he first joined us in '89 was NOT a good 3rd baseman but he worked his tail off and got better every year after that until he became a gold glover.

I'm not saying that Fields will become as good as Ventura defensively, but to say that he can't get better makes no sense.

balke
01-23-2008, 09:27 PM
Daver, I know you're as big a Crede fan as there is but to try and say that a 24 year old cannot hone his craft and become better at it with experience is just plain wrong.

Robin Ventura when he first joined us in '89 was NOT a good 3rd baseman but he worked his tail off and got better every year after that until he became a gold glover.

I'm not saying that Fields will become as good as Ventura defensively, but to say that he can't get better makes no sense.


I think that goes right back to reflexes and instinct. Some guys have it, and perhaps are not fundamentally sound at 3B, then there's some guys who just don't have it who do play it fundamentally well. I think Fields does what he's taught, I don't think he has the instinct it takes to lean in the right direction at contact, or the range and instincts to come close to a ball scorched down the 3B line.

Daver
01-23-2008, 09:42 PM
Well, better range comes with having better reflexes. So you train your reflexes to see the ball off the bat faster, and get the quicker step.

It's entirely possible that he was never put through extensive defensive training, especially considering he was a two-sport athlete. If he's gone through it all, and this is what we've got, then I guess you're right. I still disagree that reflexes are something that cannot be learned, though. You think the reflexes of a third baseman, a hockey goalie, etc. are all natural?

Yes. You can learn to hone the reflexes you have, but your actual vision and reflexes are what they are, we've seen what Fields has.

Daver, if you were the manager or GM, what would YOU do with Fields?

Let him learn left field and first base at Charlotte.

Daver, I know you're as big a Crede fan as there is but to try and say that a 24 year old cannot hone his craft and become better at it with experience is just plain wrong.

Robin Ventura when he first joined us in '89 was NOT a good 3rd baseman but he worked his tail off and got better every year after that until he became a gold glover.

I'm not saying that Fields will become as good as Ventura defensively, but to say that he can't get better makes no sense.

You can't compare the two, Ventura was a fluid third baseman from day one, he had to adjust to the speed, Fields is a mechanical third baseman, and can marginally improve, but not enough to make him more than average.

Brian26
01-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Robin Ventura when he first joined us in '89 was NOT a good 3rd baseman but he worked his tail off and got better every year after that until he became a gold glover.

I'm not saying that Fields will become as good as Ventura defensively, but to say that he can't get better makes no sense.

It's insane to compare where Ventura was in '89 and '90 to where Fields is now. Fields is light-years behind where Ventura's defense was when he first came up.

champagne030
01-23-2008, 10:00 PM
I think that goes right back to reflexes and instinct. Some guys have it, and perhaps are not fundamentally sound at 3B, then there's some guys who just don't have it who do play it fundamentally well. I think Fields does what he's taught, I don't think he has the instinct it takes to lean in the right direction at contact, or the range and instincts to come close to a ball scorched down the 3B line.

At this point, Fields reminds me of a less fundamentally sound Milkman at third. I see his defensive ceiling at third being Herbert Perry.

PalehosePlanet
01-23-2008, 10:32 PM
It's insane to compare where Ventura was in '89 and '90 to where Fields is now. Fields is light-years behind where Ventura's defense was when he first came up.

Please....Ventura looked like he had a refrigerator strapped to his back when he tried come in to field bunts and slow choppers when he first came up. Chances are good that he'll never be as good as Robin but "light-years behind" is a huge exaggeration.