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DrCrawdad
01-22-2008, 11:27 AM
Carol Sleazehack has a column today (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/slezak/752254,CST-SPT-carol22.article) where she compares Soxfest and Cubbie Convention. According to Carol: Sox, bad. Cubbies, good. Sox fans, complainers. Cubbie fans, wonderful people.

http://media1.suntimes.com/multimedia/slezak.jpg_20070517_13_55_41_557.imageContent

Pale hose by comparison

A week after North Side optimism oozed at the Cubscrush carnival, the mood around the Sox' fan convention will be relatively bleak


January 22, 2008


BY CAROL SLEZAK (cslezak@suntimes.com) Sun-Times Columnist


Another Cubs Convention, also known as LoveFest, is in the books. It's time to gear up for next weekend's Complaint Convention, also known as SoxFest.
Here's an interesting, if Pollyanna view of the Cubbies...

Contrast that with the Cubs' LoveFest...With a deep starting rotation and a bullpen that boasts three potential closers, the Cubs don't have significant pitching problems. "Deep starting rotation?" Zambrano had an up and down year in '07. Lilly had a career year. Hill is a 6 inning, 2 pitch pitcher. Where's the depth?

And "three potential closers?" Ok, and are any of them good? Last I saw Carrie Wood one of his pitches was pounded across the street.

Carol, if you want to pen love letters about the Cubbies, fine just leave the Sox out.

Mod edit: You guys just can't seem to get it: No using female names as an insult!

DumpJerry
01-22-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm convinced that she was left at the alter by a Sox fan. Her hostility towards us borders on total rage.

Jerko
01-22-2008, 11:30 AM
What do you expect? She's been anti-Sox ever since her butt got wet after a rain delay. :rolleyes: to her.

doublem23
01-22-2008, 11:30 AM
I'm convinced that she was left at the alter by a Sox fan. Her hostility towards us borders on total rage.

:moron
She's just learning from the best first-hand!

God, isn't the Sun-Times out of business yet?

spawn
01-22-2008, 11:34 AM
God, isn't the Sun-Times out of business yet?
It should be...at least their sports department.

tebman
01-22-2008, 11:36 AM
What do you expect? She's been anti-Sox ever since her butt got wet after a rain delay. :rolleyes: to her.
:rolling:
I was thinking the same thing! She goes to a Sox game to mix with the icky people, risking her standing in the Trixie Society, and gets her overpriced jeans wet during a rain delay.

She says she knows we complain because we care -- does that mean that the natural corollary is that Cub fans don't complain because they don't care? :tongue:

thedudeabides
01-22-2008, 11:39 AM
I know it's my fault I read this, but I'm putting the blame on you DR. Crawdad for pointing this out. I feel dirty. :puking:

DrCrawdad
01-22-2008, 11:45 AM
Carol's been trolling WhiteSoxInteractive...

''Forcing people to buy a two-day pass is yet another transparent SoxFest money grab,'' one fan wrote on a Sox message board.

Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1767159&postcount=17) is BainesHOF comment that Carol quoted:

Forcing people to buy a two-day pass is yet another transparent Soxfest money grab.

The event use to be held to generate media coverage and promote the team to its fans to drum up ticket sales. It's a shame it's degenerated into the Sox milking many of their best fans for every last dollar.

One other thing Carol, if you're going to quote posts from WSI have the courage to mention where you read the comment instead of the anonymous "Sox message board."

kaufsox
01-22-2008, 11:51 AM
Yawn. Like this column hasn't been written many times before. Let's see, we're due for the spring training articles, comparisons of opening days, etc. etc. Sports journalists are the laziest writers in the world.

DumpJerry
01-22-2008, 11:52 AM
Carol's been trolling WhiteSoxInteractive...



Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1767159&postcount=17) is BainesHOF comment that Carol quoted:



One other thing Carol, if you're going to quote posts from WSI have the courage to mention where you read the comment instead of the anonymous "Sox message board."
BainesHOF needs to sue her for not giving him credit.

We need to beat BainesHOF with wet noodles for giving the enemy ammo.

schmitty9800
01-22-2008, 11:57 AM
Her column doesn't even make sense. "Poor Sox fans will be complaining next week. But I agree that they should complain."

At any rate I think KW's done as good a job as he could have this offseason, I'm glad we didn't overpay for any of those OFs.

btrain929
01-22-2008, 12:16 PM
What a dyke.

Mod Edit: Well done, see you in 7 days.

batmanZoSo
01-22-2008, 12:20 PM
What a dyke.

:happybday

Foulke You
01-22-2008, 12:21 PM
"Deep starting rotation?" Zambrano had an up and down year in '07. Lilly had a career year. Hill is a 6 inning, 2 pitch pitcher. Where's the depth?
I agree Crawdad. I'm so tired of hearing about the great "depth" of the Cubs pitching staff. Gordon Witenmeyer (the Sun Times Cubs beat writer) wrote in Sunday's Sun Times that the Cubs have, and I quote "an embarassment of pitching riches". :rolleyes: Please. After Zambrano and Lilly, do the Cubs have anything worth a damn in that rotation? Marquis, Dempster, Marshall, Hill, and a broken down Lieber are supposed to lead them deep into October? What exactly makes Rich Hill and Sean Marshall so much better than Gavin Floyd and Johnny Danks? I know, I know, they wear the C-U-B-S on their jersey instead of the S-O-X.

Chilli Palmer
01-22-2008, 12:21 PM
This is why I stopped reading the Chicago dailys. Just piss poor journalism. I mean where has objectivity gone, I don't know who is worse Sleaze Hack or Mariotti's lap dog Greg Couch.

Risk
01-22-2008, 12:24 PM
I could eat a plate of rotten eggs, vomit on paper, and it would still be a more informative article than the drivel that Sleazehack just wrote.

Risk

DSpivack
01-22-2008, 12:25 PM
BainesHOF needs to sue her for not giving him credit.

We need to beat BainesHOF with wet noodles for giving the enemy ammo.

Carol's been trolling WhiteSoxInteractive...



Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1767159&postcount=17) is BainesHOF comment that Carol quoted:



One other thing Carol, if you're going to quote posts from WSI have the courage to mention where you read the comment instead of the anonymous "Sox message board."

Wow. Someone should send that to her editor!

oeo
01-22-2008, 12:26 PM
I agree Crawdad. I'm so tired of hearing about the great "depth" of the Cubs pitching staff. Gordon Witenmeyer (the Sun Times Cubs beat writer) wrote in Sunday's Sun Times that the Cubs have, and I quote "an embarassment of pitching riches". :rolleyes: Please. After Zambrano and Lilly, do the Cubs have anything worth a damn in that rotation? Marquis, Dempster, Marshall, Hill, and a broken down Lieber are supposed to lead them deep into October? What exactly makes Rich Hill and Sean Marshall so much better than Gavin Floyd and Johnny Danks? I know, I know, they wear the C-U-B-S on their jersey instead of the S-O-X.

It will definitely be funny when that team blows up in their faces.

CubKilla
01-22-2008, 12:26 PM
I'm glad we didn't overpay for any of those OFs.

But we overpaid for BP

Foulke You
01-22-2008, 12:27 PM
This is why I stopped reading the Chicago dailys. Just piss poor journalism. I mean where has objectivity gone, I don't know who is worse Sleaze Hack or Mariotti's lap dog Greg Couch.
Couch is worse. Slezak in the past has written positive columns about the Sox. Couch, like Mariotti cannot write a positive article about the Sox without taking backhanded shots at the team or fans.

Bucky F. Dent
01-22-2008, 12:32 PM
Loved this line: " the only thing anyone knows for sure is that they're down one starting pitcher and one solid prospect."

So the acquisition of Cabrera, Swisher, Linnenbrink (be warned, I am going to spell that name incorrectly all year), Dotel, Quentin, and Ramirez don't count for a thing.

CubKilla
01-22-2008, 12:32 PM
Couch is worse. Slezak in the past has written positive columns about the Sox. Couch, like Mariotti cannot write a positive article about the Sox without taking backhanded shots at the team or fans.

Couch's best column to date was his ShamME piece after Corky got caught cheating which, summarized, pretty much said that ShamME had been forced to use a corked bat because 1.) he had the toenail on the big toe of his push off foot removed and 2.) the Wrigley fans booed him for K'ing 5 times in a game and that he cheated to get back into their good graces because he cared so much about his standing amongst the MLB elite and his fans that he felt like he was letting everyone down so he CHEATED to appease the masses.

Vomit inducing to say the least.

spiffie
01-22-2008, 12:44 PM
I agree Crawdad. I'm so tired of hearing about the great "depth" of the Cubs pitching staff. Gordon Witenmeyer (the Sun Times Cubs beat writer) wrote in Sunday's Sun Times that the Cubs have, and I quote "an embarassment of pitching riches". :rolleyes: Please. After Zambrano and Lilly, do the Cubs have anything worth a damn in that rotation? Marquis, Dempster, Marshall, Hill, and a broken down Lieber are supposed to lead them deep into October? What exactly makes Rich Hill and Sean Marshall so much better than Gavin Floyd and Johnny Danks? I know, I know, they wear the C-U-B-S on their jersey instead of the S-O-X.
Over Hill's last 44 starts he's put up an ERA of 3.63. In the future Danks may turn out to be better than Hill, but right now if we had Hill he immediately becomes the #3 man in our rotation, and possibly #2 depending on which Vazquez shows up this year.

pdimas
01-22-2008, 12:45 PM
Why won't he give fans what they want and commit long-term to Joe Crede?

I read this and thought really? I didn't know most of you guys wanted Joe long term.

doublem23
01-22-2008, 12:51 PM
I read this and thought really? I didn't know most of you guys wanted Joe long term.

I guess we do? :dunno:

For the record, I think most of us want Joe Crede long term. We just don't want his back.

voodoochile
01-22-2008, 12:53 PM
I guess we do? :dunno:

For the record, I think most of us want Joe Crede long term. We just don't want his back.

Not sure we want to pay him $15M/year even if he is healthy..

DrCrawdad
01-22-2008, 12:56 PM
Over Hill's last 44 starts he's put up an ERA of 3.63. In the future Danks may turn out to be better than Hill, but right now if we had Hill he immediately becomes the #3 man in our rotation, and possibly #2 depending on which Vazquez shows up this year.

Well, Carol's piece assumes that all the Cubbie pitchers show up in this year too. As I said before, Lilly had a career year, Zambrano was down for basically the first half of the season and Hill is a 6 inning 2 pitch pitcher (who's also is frequently referred to as "young" even though he'll be 28 yrs old). Marquis, Lieber and others are anything but reliable.

The main thing all the Cubbie pitchers have in their favor over the Sox starters is that they pitch in the weakest division in the weakest league in MLB.

voodoochile
01-22-2008, 12:58 PM
Over Hill's last 44 starts he's put up an ERA of 3.63. In the future Danks may turn out to be better than Hill, but right now if we had Hill he immediately becomes the #3 man in our rotation, and possibly #2 depending on which Vazquez shows up this year.

That's a 4.13 or even higher moving to the AL and making half his starts at USCF.

chaerulez
01-22-2008, 12:58 PM
Not sure we want to pay him $15M/year even if he is healthy..

His defense is great when he can play, but no way is Crede a $15M/year player.

Foulke You
01-22-2008, 12:59 PM
Over Hill's last 44 starts he's put up an ERA of 3.63. In the future Danks may turn out to be better than Hill, but right now if we had Hill he immediately becomes the #3 man in our rotation, and possibly #2 depending on which Vazquez shows up this year.
NL Central #s my friend. Keep in mind that Ted Lilly won 15 games and Jason Marquis won 12 in that sorry division last year. There is no doubt in my mind that Danks would put up similar #s to Hill if he got to pitch against the loaded lineups of the Pirates, Reds, and Cardinals 19 times per year.

Palehose13
01-22-2008, 01:01 PM
What a dyke.

Mod Edit: Well done, see you in 7 days.

Someone is sexually frustrated!:bandance:

Dykes, FTW!

pdimas
01-22-2008, 01:02 PM
I watched game 2 from the 2005 World Series this past weekend and I gotta admit :whiner:I kinda do miss Joe but with a young and much cheaper (albeit weaker defensively) Josh Fields....well.....

chisox77
01-22-2008, 01:02 PM
My impression was that most of us are resigned to the possibility that Crede will be traded. BTW, I always notice the vast difference between members and guests just after I click onto the WSI home page. Sometimes the difference is huge. There are many people who troll here, and it's safe to guess that most of Chicago's beat writers, some radio personalities, and sportscasters check out our message boards.



:cool:

pdimas
01-22-2008, 01:04 PM
My impression was that most of us are resigned to the possibility that Crede will be traded. BTW, I always notice the vast difference between members and guests just after I click onto the WSI home page. Sometimes the difference is huge. There are many people who troll here, and it's safe to guess that most of Chicago's beat writers, some radio personalities, and sportscasters check out our message boards.



:cool:

I've also noticed the inordinate number of guests around these parts lately.

Zisk77
01-22-2008, 01:06 PM
I love Joe and hope somehow we keep him around for awhile. However, just how is it a wise move that KW should make signing him to a long term contract when no one knows if is back will allow him to be even a shadow of himself?:?:

Jerko
01-22-2008, 01:11 PM
quit quoting that offensive comment please? Once was enough.

WizardsofOzzie
01-22-2008, 01:12 PM
Yet another Cubbie fan buying into the notion that the Cubs can actually accomplish something once in the playoffs. Yes, you can win the division by beating up on the Cardinals, Pirates, Astros, and Brewers all the live long day, but once you actually have to face a real team it's :sweep for you. I'm going to enjoy smoking a celebratory cigar when the Cubs choke for anniversary number 100 (Unless the Sox come out with a furry and then I'll save it for the World Series)

spiffie
01-22-2008, 01:13 PM
As I said before, Lilly had a career year.

That's a 4.13 or even higher moving to the AL and making half his starts at USCF.
Well, one of these can't be right. Either your ERA goes down .50 or so moving to the NL (and vice versa for the NL -> AL move) or it doesn't. So either Hill would have a 4.13 in the AL (still a run better than anyone else left on our staff outside of Mark and Javy), or Lilly, who outside of one bad year tended to put up ERA's in the low-mid 4's in the AL was right in line with his career when he put up a 3.83 last year. Get back to me guys when you decide how the AL/NL transfer works :D:

voodoochile
01-22-2008, 01:14 PM
His defense is great when he can play, but no way is Crede a $15M/year player.

Really? How much will he sign for then? $13M? $12M?

I am still not sure he's worth it with Fields ready to take over. The money would better be spent on starting pitching, IMO.

Jerko
01-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Really? How much will he sign for then? $13M? $12M?

I am still not sure he's worth it with Fields ready to take over. The money would better be spent on starting pitching, IMO.

I agree. Starting rotation scares the bejesus out of me.

spiffie
01-22-2008, 01:18 PM
Not sure we want to pay him $15M/year even if he is healthy..
I wouldn't want Joe Crede at $15M/year even if they gave him a super new back made of some sort of futuristic Terminator material. Joe is/was (who knows how he'll be with the back issues going forward) a hell of a glove, but there's no fielder on earth worth $15M/yearly when they bring a 259/305/446 line with it.

voodoochile
01-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Well, one of these can't be right. Either your ERA goes down .50 or so moving to the NL (and vice versa for the NL -> AL move) or it doesn't. So either Hill would have a 4.13 in the AL (still a run better than anyone else left on our staff outside of Mark and Javy), or Lilly, who outside of one bad year tended to put up ERA's in the low-mid 4's in the AL was right in line with his career when he put up a 3.83 last year. Get back to me guys when you decide how the AL/NL transfer works :D:

Well I have to admit that I am a bit surprised. I had always heard and understood that ERA's run a 1/2-run higher in the AL, but according to stats, the leage ERA's were only separated by .08 runs last season and actually the AL as a whole only averaged 7 runs more per team last season.

So, I'm ready to concede the point...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=8

pdimas
01-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Well I have to admit that I am a bit surprised. I had always heard and understood that ERA's run a 1/2-run higher in the AL, but according to stats, the leage ERA's were only separated by .08 runs last season and actually the AL as a whole only averaged 7 runs more per team last season.

So, I'm ready to concede the point...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=8


I think the better way to point out the difference is by taking the pitchers who switched leagues last year and comparing last year's stats with the previous year's stats.

NL to AL
AL to NL

SOXPHILE
01-22-2008, 01:43 PM
Slezak is really a piss poor excuse for a columnist. (There was no excitement in Chicago over the White Sox '05 championship. I didn't see anything from my condo in Lakeview). Sox and Cubs columns aside, she really has never written ANY sports column that was worth yesterday's used toilet paper. I think she was one who was implying, though never came out and said it, that there was some racism involved with the Bears not being quicker in offering Lovie Smith a contract extension last year. It boggles the mind to think of how she, and so many other writers (and radio voices) in this town are SO ill informed about sports in general, and rarely have a damn clue of what they are talking about.

WhiteSox5187
01-22-2008, 01:55 PM
Really? How much will he sign for then? $13M? $12M?

I am still not sure he's worth it with Fields ready to take over. The money would better be spent on starting pitching, IMO.
I agree that we'd be better off spending 15 million on the rotation than on Crede, however if he returns to being a gold glove caliber defender who can put up numbers offensively like he did in '06, in today's market he MIGHT be worth fifteen million to somebody...just not us.

doublem23
01-22-2008, 02:00 PM
Where does this $15 million number keep popping up from? Is that something the Sox or Crede/Boras have thrown around publicly, or is this just an educated guestimate on these boards? When healthy, Crede is an elite third baseman. Obviously, you can't compare his salary to A-Rod because he's another player living in a different reality, but after that if I knew he would be healthy, I would have no problem with paying Joe a very good salary compared to other 3B.

That said, I never would, because of his chronic back problems.

WhiteSox5187
01-22-2008, 02:02 PM
Where does this $15 million number keep popping up from? Is that something the Sox or Crede/Boras have thrown around publicly, or is this just an educated guestimate on these boards? When healthy, Crede is an elite third baseman. Obviously, you can't compare his salary to A-Rod because he's another player living in a different reality, but after that if I knew he would be healthy, I would have no problem with paying Joe a very good salary compared to other 3B.

That said, I never would, because of his chronic back problems.
Let's say the number is ten million and Crede comes out in '08 and demonstrates he is healthy and puts up '06 like numbers...would you re-sign him then?

doublem23
01-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Let's say the number is ten million and Crede comes out in '08 and demonstrates he is healthy and puts up '06 like numbers...would you re-sign him then?

No. Well, I should clarify - I'd give him a contract worth 10 million, but a lot of that money would be tied to performance incentives; games played, extra base hits, etc.

Since I'm sure he could do better elsewhere, I wouldn't expect him to take the offer.

Foulke You
01-22-2008, 02:30 PM
Well, one of these can't be right. Either your ERA goes down .50 or so moving to the NL (and vice versa for the NL -> AL move) or it doesn't. So either Hill would have a 4.13 in the AL (still a run better than anyone else left on our staff outside of Mark and Javy), or Lilly, who outside of one bad year tended to put up ERA's in the low-mid 4's in the AL was right in line with his career when he put up a 3.83 last year. Get back to me guys when you decide how the AL/NL transfer works :D:
I don't think there is a clear cut AL/NL transfer but use your head and use your eyes. The AL is a much stronger league with loaded lineups. More often than not, a pitcher crossing over will have more success going from the AL to the NL than vice versa these days. I would never be sold on Rich Hill being anything more than a #4 or #5 in an AL rotation.

voodoochile
01-22-2008, 02:32 PM
Where does this $15 million number keep popping up from? Is that something the Sox or Crede/Boras have thrown around publicly, or is this just an educated guestimate on these boards? When healthy, Crede is an elite third baseman. Obviously, you can't compare his salary to A-Rod because he's another player living in a different reality, but after that if I knew he would be healthy, I would have no problem with paying Joe a very good salary compared to other 3B.

That said, I never would, because of his chronic back problems.

Hunter and Rowand got that much and more this off season.

Rough comparison from 2006 (Crede's last full year) shows:

Crede with 464 total chances with 454 generated outs. RF 3.24 and a ZR of .790 in 149 games

Hunter with 353 TC, 351 generated outs, RF 2.56, ZR .890 in 143 games.

Offensively Hunter has an OPS of .793 for his career while Crede has an OPS of .751 so there is some offensive difference, but not to a dramatic degree.

How many teams would love to have a 3B like Crede on their team? He's one of the top 5 guys at his position in the majors and he'll be in the heart of his prime at 30 when he comes up for the contract. Yes, his back might slow down the bidding somewhat, but if he gets through this season injury free and has a Crede-esque year with bat and glove, someone is going to drop a big pile of wampum in his lap...

VenturaFan23
01-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Ever since I let my subscription to the Sun Times run out a few months ago, I've been answering all the questions on Jeopardy!

tony1972
01-22-2008, 06:08 PM
I read the whole article..and didn't think it was anti-Sox...she says a lot of things that are true...things people on this board say all the time...

rainbow6
01-22-2008, 07:06 PM
I read the whole article..and didn't think it was anti-Sox...she says a lot of things that are true...things people on this board say all the time...

I respectfully think you are wrong. The people on this board are aware, unlike Carol, that the Sox lost more than "a prospect" and the prospect she mentions is not really the one most informed fans where concerned about.

The people on this board, for the most part, are aware of the Joe Crede situation, and are not pining for him to sign a long term deal. Most know the reasons so I won't waste the space...

Her insinuating otherwise is insulting to all informed Sox fans.

Let me add that I'm not insulting those who DO hope we sign Crede long-term. My sense, however, is that she views most Sox fans as dopes drooling on their couches watching the WS DVD and mumbling how great Crede is while ignoring (or ignorant to) all the ramifications involved in his likely depature.

Or maybe that's just her.

Adding insult to injury was her assesment of the Cubs as virtually unbeatable.
Dozens of starters. Closers out the ass.

Jesus.

This isn't about Sox Fans (us) being critical of the team and than crying foul when a member of the media follows suit. This is about a poorly written article claiming to speak for a fan base and insulting it in the process.

JB98
01-22-2008, 07:17 PM
I read the whole article..and didn't think it was anti-Sox...she says a lot of things that are true...things people on this board say all the time...

I think her intent was anti-Sox, but it didn't really come out as bad as she hoped. :D:

Yeah, we criticize KW. That's because we demand accountability from the Sox organization, something the fan base on the other side of town knows nothing about. It's all rose petals and daisies and Santo predicting victory up there.

That's OK with me. It's been that way for a long, long time.

gobears1987
01-22-2008, 07:21 PM
God, isn't the Sun-Times out of business yet?
They are well on the way.

Heck we can't even complain about Tribune much now. Zell has a pretty large take in the Sox and decided he would rather on the Sox than the Flubs.

sullythered
01-22-2008, 07:39 PM
Ick. Carol Slezak is the worst writer in the city. Not sports writer, writer. She absolutely does not belong in a major city's daily newspaper. Not even typing up obituaries. She makes Marriotti look good, and typing that just now made me throw up in my mouth.

Nothing she writes, has written, or will ever write should have any effect on any thinking human being.

Oh, and the Cubs only closer is now a starter.

JB98
01-22-2008, 07:43 PM
Ick. Carol Slezak is the worst writer in the city. Not sports writer, writer. She absolutely does not belong in a major city's daily newspaper. Not even typing up obituaries. She makes Marriotti look good, and typing that just now made me throw up in my mouth.

Nothing she writes, has written, or will ever write should have any effect on any thinking human being.

Oh, and the Cubs only closer is now a starter.

Let's be clear about one thing: NOTHING, AND I MEAN NOTHING could ever make Mariotti look good.

Optipessimism
01-22-2008, 07:52 PM
-The Cubs have "three potential closers" only because no one has flat out taken the job. Dempster is prone to suck for stretches, Marmol hasn't had the opportunity to show he can hold down the job, and Wood is Wood.

-The Cubs "don't have significant pitching problems" because their division is downright horrible, the worst in baseball by far. If the Sox ran out Zambrano, Lily, Hill, Lieber and one of Dempster/Marshall/Marquis you can bet that just as many Sox fans would be penciling us in for 3rd place in the Central or lower.

Lieber is old, injury prone, and hasn't had a respectable season since '05. That's not exciting. Marquis showed his true self in the second half of last year. He's an overpaid fifth starter and nothing more. Marshall is still an unknown commodity even though he has upside. Lilly and Hill are solid #3's, and Zambrano is a legit ace when the space aliens he is always pointing to program him for dominance. That's a good rotation in the AL Central but probably not good enough, just like ours.

-Please stop comparing an American League team in the best division in baseball to a National League team in the worst division in baseball. It doesn't work.

JB98
01-22-2008, 08:00 PM
-The Cubs have "three potential closers" only because no one has flat out taken the job. Dempster is prone to suck for stretches, Marmol hasn't had the opportunity to show he can hold down the job, and Wood is Wood.

-The Cubs "don't have significant pitching problems" because their division is downright horrible, the worst in baseball by far. If the Sox ran out Zambrano, Lily, Hill, Lieber and one of Dempster/Marshall/Marquis you can bet that just as many Sox fans would be penciling us in for 3rd place in the Central or lower.

Lieber is old, injury prone, and hasn't had a respectable season since '05. That's not exciting. Marquis showed his true self in the second half of last year. He's an overpaid fifth starter and nothing more. Marshall is still an unknown commodity even though he has upside. Lilly and Hill are solid #3's, and Zambrano is a legit ace when the space aliens he is always pointing to program him for dominance. That's a good rotation in the AL Central but probably not good enough, just like ours.

-Please stop comparing an American League team in the best division in baseball to a National League team in the worst division in baseball. It doesn't work.

Everyone here already knows the Cubs suck. Preaching to the choir.

People like Carol Slezak have to find out the hard way. :D:

cws05champ
01-22-2008, 08:06 PM
Well, one of these can't be right. Either your ERA goes down .50 or so moving to the NL (and vice versa for the NL -> AL move) or it doesn't. So either Hill would have a 4.13 in the AL (still a run better than anyone else left on our staff outside of Mark and Javy), or Lilly, who outside of one bad year tended to put up ERA's in the low-mid 4's in the AL was right in line with his career when he put up a 3.83 last year. Get back to me guys when you decide how the AL/NL transfer works :D:

Well, lets take a look at Lilly's last 3 seasons in Toronto:
2004 4.06
2005 5.56
2006 4.31
-------------
Overall 4.52 ERA in the AL in those three years
Last year: 3.83 in the NL central
So a drop of 0.69 ERA
So if you follow that same rational, then Hill's ERA in the AL would be 3.92(his only full year as a starter) +0.69 or 4.61.
Would he be decent to average in the AL, yes. Is he as good as some people beleive...I don't think so.

chisoxfanatic
01-22-2008, 08:13 PM
I'm sure the Sun Times and other papers have to meet some gender quota with regards to its columnists; but, they could do infinitely better than Slezak. Julie Swieca's the one for the job!

IceczMan
01-22-2008, 08:23 PM
Is it worth emailing her with my thoughts or is it not worth the time?

Dick Allen
01-22-2008, 09:03 PM
Is it worth emailing her with my thoughts or is it not worth the time?I actually did that a year ago. She was very cordial and swears up and down that she isn't a cub fan. I believe her, since I think she's from Michigan. She was hoping that her bosses would give her more substantial assignments than the kind she's been getting. I guess you can draw your own conclusions from that.

ksimpson14
01-23-2008, 01:04 AM
I didn't hear it, but looking at the ESPN Radio website, Brooks was scheduled to be on their evening show ('The Show') to respond to the article and talk about the fact that you could only get 2 day passes. Anyone hear this?

areilly
01-23-2008, 01:37 AM
I'm sure the Sun Times and other papers have to meet some gender quota with regards to its columnists; but, they could do infinitely better than Slezak. Julie Swieca's the one for the job!

There's no quota: editors and publishers hire columnists whose columns will keep people reading and talking about the column, and that's about it. To that end, the Slezaks and Marriottis of the world are gold.

BainesHOF
01-23-2008, 03:58 AM
I don't mind that she quoted me without attribution. It's not like she had access to my real name. I only wish her column was better written.

By the way, I stand by my original comments. I don't care what Brooks says. Forcing people to buy a two-day ticket for a fan event when they only want to go for one day is a money grab. Same thing goes for having to buy a hotel package to attend Friday.

MISoxfan
01-23-2008, 07:36 AM
No. Well, I should clarify - I'd give him a contract worth 10 million, but a lot of that money would be tied to performance incentives; games played, extra base hits, etc.

Since I'm sure he could do better elsewhere, I wouldn't expect him to take the offer.

I don't think you can base incentives on anything other than games played and plate appearances. You can only base it on a player being healthy not productive.

doublem23
01-23-2008, 07:49 AM
I don't think you can base incentives on anything other than games played and plate appearances. You can only base it on a player being healthy not productive.

Well, I know you can have incentives for awards (All-Star Game, Gold Glove, MVP) and I remember Kenny Lofton's contract with the Sox had incentives based on the team's attendance, but I've never sat down and read the CBA, so I wouldn't know the answer for sure.

The point is moot, anyway, since I'm sure Crede and Boras would never take an incentive-based contract.

cws05champ
01-23-2008, 09:42 AM
Well, I know you can have incentives for awards (All-Star Game, Gold Glove, MVP) and I remember Kenny Lofton's contract with the Sox had incentives based on the team's attendance, but I've never sat down and read the CBA, so I wouldn't know the answer for sure.

The point is moot, anyway, since I'm sure Crede and Boras would never take an incentive-based contract.

You will see less and less incentives for awards, as I beleive the committee that gives the awards voted that a player who has that incentive in his contract would not be eligible to receive the award. True story...

soxwon
01-23-2008, 09:44 AM
Carol's been trolling WhiteSoxInteractive...



Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1767159&postcount=17) is BainesHOF comment that Carol quoted:



One other thing Carol, if you're going to quote posts from WSI have the courage to mention where you read the comment instead of the anonymous "Sox message board."

She never asked Da Reverand for his thoughts.
I woulda set her ass straight.

pierzynski07
01-23-2008, 09:54 AM
I didn't hear it, but looking at the ESPN Radio website, Brooks was scheduled to be on their evening show ('The Show') to respond to the article and talk about the fact that you could only get 2 day passes. Anyone hear this?
He was on WSCR yesterday, and his explanation was that many people wanted a two-day pass so they could have time to do everything. I don't really buy that though.

It's on the site:
http://www.670thescore.com/pages/154259.php?contentType=34&contentId=1809

It's Dankerific
01-23-2008, 01:42 PM
If that was true, a 2 day pass could have been an "option". As Judge Judy would say, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining"

SOXfnNlansing
01-23-2008, 08:15 PM
I was interviewed by Sleez yak when I was standing in the cold waiting for individual game tickets to go on sale years ago. I think we signed Navarro or Wells (some free agent bust) that winter. In the interview I was talking optimistically about the signings and such. This was a time when Big Frank was brooding about something.

She asked me a question about BF and I said things will work out. When the paper came out the article was about how she could only find one fan (me with my picture in the insert) that thought the Manuel/Thomas 'feud' would work itself out:rolleyes:....... nothing about the fans all around the park excited about getting tickets and having a good season.

I took some heat for coming across as a &%( with my friends and family. They just have a story they want to tell and add "the fan's pulse" to "prove" their theories imo.

Foulke You
01-24-2008, 12:08 AM
I don't mind that she quoted me without attribution. It's not like she had access to my real name. I only wish her column was better written.

By the way, I stand by my original comments. I don't care what Brooks says. Forcing people to buy a two-day ticket for a fan event when they only want to go for one day is a money grab. Same thing goes for having to buy a hotel package to attend Friday.
I am still in agreement with your original comments Baines. It is a total money grab. I usually defend the Sox as an organization but this time I can't. Brooks can spin it all he wants but they are just raking the hardcore fans over the coals on the 2 day passes. I won't be attending this year because of it. If Carol Slezak wants to label me a "complainer" because I don't have a spare $140 for my wife and I to go to the fest, than so be it.

Jerome
01-24-2008, 01:20 AM
I'd rather have Swisher on my team than Hunter and Rowand. Also, I bet most everyone on WSI doesn't want Crede back long term (Fields, the back, etc) and I don't agree on all that cubbie optimism she's spewing either.

Their offense is stacked but I don't think the pitching is all that.

FedEx227
01-24-2008, 01:25 AM
I'd rather have Swisher on my team than Hunter and Rowand. Also, I bet most everyone on WSI doesn't want Crede back long term (Fields, the back, etc) and I don't agree on all that cubbie optimism she's spewing either.

Their offense is stacked but I don't think the pitching is all that.

Haven't you heard Rich Hill and Ted Lilly are both shoe-ins for 24 wins this year!

SOXSINCE'70
01-24-2008, 10:25 AM
The immortal Bugs Bunny might refer to Sleaze-Hack
as a "mar-oon".:D::D:

soxwon
01-24-2008, 12:42 PM
Haven't you heard Rich Hill and Ted Lilly are both shoe-ins for 24 wins this year!

combined yea

WizardsofOzzie
01-24-2008, 01:08 PM
The immortal Bugs Bunny might refer to Sleaze-Hack
as a "mar-oon".:D::D:

I prefer this one

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8951/daffyos5.gif

The Immigrant
01-24-2008, 01:21 PM
I am still in agreement with your original comments Baines. It is a total money grab.

How is it a money grab if the proceeds are going to charity? What am I missing here?

PennStater98r
01-24-2008, 06:35 PM
What a dyke.

Mod Edit: Well done, see you in 7 days.

Maybe I am way off here - but is btrain trying to make a joke about Ozzie's use of a certain word akin to the Brit's word for cigarettes when talking about our favorite reporter?

Regardless - holy ****! That was not cool... I think I felt the same way I did when Ozzie pulled his nonsense.

doublem23
01-24-2008, 06:43 PM
Maybe I am way off here - but is btrain trying to make a joke about Ozzie's use of a certain word akin to the Brit's word for cigarettes when talking about our favorite reporter?

Regardless - holy ****! That was not cool... I think I felt the same way I did when Ozzie pulled his nonsense.

Ozzie doesn't post on these boards; otherwise he would have been given a few days, too.

Since Slezak obviously lurks here, I think she's seen enough of our displeasure. That, and the longer this thread remains open, the more often people keep quoting that god damn post.

:lurkers:welcome:, Carol!