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View Full Version : Joe Crede signs contract


WSox73
01-17-2008, 08:37 PM
WGN Radio has just reported Joe has signed a 1-year deal. I don't have the exact numbers, but, it is incentive laden.

whitem0nkey
01-17-2008, 08:39 PM
White Sox third baseman Joe Crede agreed Thursday to a one-year, $5.1 million contract that allowed him to earn an additional $300,000 in performance bonuses.

from trib

SoxNation05
01-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Sign and Trade

WSox73
01-17-2008, 08:43 PM
Sign and Trade

That's what I thought.

Chilli Palmer
01-17-2008, 08:52 PM
That's what I thought.

Sign and Trade

This isn't the NBA.

santo=dorf
01-17-2008, 09:02 PM
This isn't the NBA.
There is a massive difference between signing and trading a free agent and doing the same with an arbitration eligible player. Apples and oranges.

JNS
01-17-2008, 09:05 PM
There is a massive difference between signing and trading a free agent and doing the same with an arbitration eligible player. Apples and oranges.

This one makes sense - assuming he is healthy and can attract bidders, it makes his financial situation a known quantity.

Daver
01-17-2008, 09:08 PM
Cool the Sox have an actual third baseman under contract for the 2008 season.

fquaye149
01-17-2008, 09:10 PM
With Fields and Crede, this suggests another possible option if the Sox trade Konerko, to put Fields in either the 1B or DH position (hopefully he can play 1B since Thome's an injury risk)

JB98
01-17-2008, 09:11 PM
With Fields and Crede, this suggests another possible option if the Sox trade Konerko, to put Fields in either the 1B or DH position (hopefully he can play 1B since Thome's an injury risk)

Gee whiz, that possibility hasn't been discussed around here before. :rolleyes:

itsnotrequired
01-17-2008, 09:13 PM
With Fields and Crede, this suggests another possible option if the Sox trade Konerko, to put Fields in either the 1B or DH position (hopefully he can play 1B since Thome's an injury risk)

Or trade Fields for a starting pitcher.

:dunno:

Chilli Palmer
01-17-2008, 09:15 PM
There is a massive difference between signing and trading a free agent and doing the same with an arbitration eligible player. Apples and oranges.

I did not know that.

soxtalker
01-17-2008, 09:16 PM
There is a massive difference between signing and trading a free agent and doing the same with an arbitration eligible player. Apples and oranges.

I don't understand. I don't see how this matters very much. Joe could have refused to sign with the Sox or with any team to which they traded his rights, but he would have to sit out the season. This removes uncertainty for him and the Sox (or any trading partner). Maybe it sends a signal that they really think he's coming back, but I assume that would have come out in any serious trading discussions.

havelj
01-17-2008, 09:21 PM
So many options still for Kenny to shape this team for 2008. It's only January and he has many options on how to put this roster together. I like it.

I still think Quentin will be a star this year and Swish will be much more than expected. Same for Jose.

fquaye149
01-17-2008, 09:23 PM
Gee whiz, that possibility hasn't been discussed around here before. :rolleyes:

and now it's a lot more tangible a possibility, dude. :rolleyes: At some point you have to evaluate this deal from a standpoint of what it means for the White Sox.

It's quite unlikely Fields will be in LF this year, no matter what the knucklehead gallery of message boards and talk radio clamor for.

That leaves exactly two positions Fields/Crede can realistically play. We have one too many MLB-caliber starting players at the corner infield positions for a team with many holes, and the only viable trade solutions that reap benefits are to trade Konerko or....

Or trade Fields for a starting pitcher.

:dunno:

Sure. Who knows.

But thanks for the ever witty teal response :rolleyes:

raven1
01-17-2008, 09:32 PM
I think that all this really means is that neither the White Sox nor Crede & his agent wanted to take their chances at arbitration. Better to mutually agree to a fair number, probably with little or no actual face to face negotiation (that's what email & fax machines are good for). An extension was out of the question, & so was sitting out the year. All the alternatives everyone loves to speculate about so much (trade now, trade later, keep for season) remain unchanged by this.

LongLiveFisk
01-17-2008, 09:42 PM
Well hopefully his back is a hell of a lot better now. When did he have that surgery?

Hitmen77
01-17-2008, 09:45 PM
Or trade Fields for a starting pitcher.

:dunno:

But doesn't that option leave the Sox at high risk of being without a 3B after 2008? I say this based on the notion that it seems unlikely that the Sox and Crede/Boras will come to an agreement on anything past this season.

Martinigirl
01-17-2008, 09:47 PM
I am really not sure how this changes anything. He was arbitration eligible, we clearly were not going to let him walk, so a contract, either via negotiations or arbitration was going to happen. It still only takes us through the 2008 season, and then Joe can walk.

So either he or Fields gets traded, and I am betting it is Joe. Nothing has changed.

PalehosePlanet
01-17-2008, 10:12 PM
I think that all this really means is that neither the White Sox nor Crede & his agent wanted to take their chances at arbitration. Better to mutually agree to a fair number, probably with little or no actual face to face negotiation (that's what email & fax machines are good for). An extension was out of the question, & so was sitting out the year. All the alternatives everyone loves to speculate about so much (trade now, trade later, keep for season) remain unchanged by this.

Thank you for being one of the few posters who realizes that the signing means absolutely nothing and changes absolutely nothing.

Fields, not only should NOT be traded, but needs to play 3rd every day and continue to develop defensively and offensively. Bad-back Joe and Bora$ need to hit the road ASAP; I don't want to be stuck without a 3B in '09.

Hopefully someone takes him based on him passing a physical.

SoxNation05
01-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Thank you for being one of the few posters who realizes that the signing means absolutely nothing and changes absolutely nothing.

Fields, not only should NOT be traded, but needs to play 3rd every day and continue to develop defensively and offensively. Bad-back Joe and Bora$ need to hit the road ASAP; I don't want to be stuck without a 3B in '09.

Hopefully someone takes him based on him passing a physical.
I agree with you on all levels but if it takes Fields to get us Bedard, be my guest. I would be behind that trade and the team would be contending in '08.

JB98
01-17-2008, 10:23 PM
and now it's a lot more tangible a possibility, dude. :rolleyes: At some point you have to evaluate this deal from a standpoint of what it means for the White Sox.

I don't think it's a greater possibility now than it was this morning. Crede has been under the Sox control this entire time, even though he didn't have a contract. It isn't like he was an unrestricted free agent, and he just decided to return to the Sox.

JB98
01-17-2008, 10:24 PM
I am really not sure how this changes anything. He was arbitration eligible, we clearly were not going to let him walk, so a contract, either via negotiations or arbitration was going to happen. It still only takes us through the 2008 season, and then Joe can walk.

So either he or Fields gets traded, and I am betting it is Joe. Nothing has changed.

I agree with this.

voodoochile
01-17-2008, 10:30 PM
Or trade Fields for a starting pitcher.

:dunno:

And when Crede's back gives out or he makes it through the season healthy and then Boras says, 5 years $75M to sign him, what then?

fquaye149
01-17-2008, 10:35 PM
I don't think it's a greater possibility now than it was this morning. Crede has been under the Sox control this entire time, even though he didn't have a contract. It isn't like he was an unrestricted free agent, and he just decided to return to the Sox.

No, but they could have offered arbitration, hoping he'd decline, or be awarded less. So this contract, especially with the incentives clause, seems to suggest they plan on him being a part of the 08 team, or are trying to sweeten him up as trade bait

veeter
01-17-2008, 10:42 PM
I think that all this really means is that neither the White Sox nor Crede & his agent wanted to take their chances at arbitration. Better to mutually agree to a fair number, probably with little or no actual face to face negotiation (that's what email & fax machines are good for). An extension was out of the question, & so was sitting out the year. All the alternatives everyone loves to speculate about so much (trade now, trade later, keep for season) remain unchanged by this.Exactly. The Sox though, are in a good position here. Spring training is really long. Anything can happen, namely injuries. Kenny will bide his time here, and when Joe proves he's o.k., the position gets ever stronger. But is there any doubt he'll be traded?

WhiteSox5187
01-17-2008, 10:44 PM
This just means that he's avoiding arbitration, however, the fact that there is incentives in this suggests to me at least that the possiblity of him coming back potentially long term hasn't been ruled out of the picture...I think everyone right now is looking to see whether or not Joe is healthy, and that means both in terms of trade value and a potential re-signing.

DumpJerry
01-17-2008, 10:50 PM
But the White Sox don't talk to Borasssss!

In MLB you can't sign and trade a FA. If you sign a FA, even if he is your own, you cannot trade him until June. So technically, you can sign and trade, but during the winter you have no idea what the trade market in June and July will look like.

Zisk77
01-17-2008, 10:51 PM
One other possibility exists. If Joe's has a good year and his back appears sound we could sign him longer term. Have fields play a little at 3b a little at first (resting konerko and Crede) and a little lf. Then next year let Thome walk. crede 3b field 1b konerko DH.

PalehosePlanet
01-17-2008, 11:10 PM
And when Crede's back gives out or he makes it through the season healthy and then Boras says, 5 years $75M to sign him, what then?

Then we have Morgan Ensberg or Jeff Cirillo at 3B for '09. No thanks; trade Joe ASAP.

voodoochile
01-17-2008, 11:23 PM
But the White Sox don't talk to Borasssss!

In MLB you can't sign and trade a FA. If you sign a FA, even if he is your own, you cannot trade him until June. So technically, you can sign and trade, but during the winter you have no idea what the trade market in June and July will look like.

Joe wasn't an FA. The Sox always controlled his rights. Just checking because everyone else is saying the Sox can trade him the minute they get an offer for him. Are you absolutely sure they can't trade him until mid-season roughly?

Also, the Joe had no choice it was sign with the Sox or willingly or wait to see what the arbitrator decided. He was going to be signed by the Sox one way or the other, period this off season. The Boras factor doesn't come into play until next fall if Joe is still here.

PalehosePlanet
01-17-2008, 11:25 PM
Joe wasn't an FA. The Sox always controlled his rights. Just checking because everyone else is saying the Sox can trade him the minute they get an offer for him. Are you absolutely sure they can't trade him until mid-season roughly?

Also, the Joe had no choice it was sign with the Sox or willingly or wait to see what the arbitrator decided. He was going to be signed by the Sox one way or the other, period this off season. The Boras factor doesn't come into play until next fall if Joe is still here.

Joe was simply an arbitration eligible player, not an FA. We can trade him tonight if we wanted to.

palehozenychicty
01-17-2008, 11:33 PM
And when Crede's back gives out or he makes it through the season healthy and then Boras says, 5 years $75M to sign him, what then?


$15 million a year for Joe Crede?! :o: I know that Boras is crazy, but wow. And I love Joe Crede for his heroics. Still...

StillMissOzzie
01-17-2008, 11:48 PM
No, but they could have offered arbitration, hoping he'd decline, or be awarded less. So this contract, especially with the incentives clause, seems to suggest they plan on him being a part of the 08 team, or are trying to sweeten him up as trade bait

Interesting theory, but I disagree. If they offer arbitration and he declines, the Sox get nothing for him.

Joe was simply an arbitration eligible player, not an FA. We can trade him tonight if we wanted to.

That's what I thought. Where did this "can't trade him until June" idea come from?

Bottom line:
If the Sox want to trade Crede, they need to trot him out there to show he can play.
If Crede and Bora$ want the big payday, Crede needs to trot out there and show he can play. It is in everyone's best interests, either short or long term, to get Crede out on the field.

SMO
:gulp:

Nellie_Fox
01-17-2008, 11:52 PM
$15 million a year for Joe Crede?! :o: I know that Boras is crazy, but wow. And I love Joe Crede for his heroics. Still...Just keep reminding yourself that Carlos Silva got $12 mil a year, and you'll remember that nothing makes any sense any more.

voodoochile
01-17-2008, 11:56 PM
No, but they could have offered arbitration, hoping he'd decline, or be awarded less. So this contract, especially with the incentives clause, seems to suggest they plan on him being a part of the 08 team, or are trying to sweeten him up as trade bait

He cannot decline arbitration this year. Next year he can but this year once the Sox offer it, it's a done deal.

Also, very few cases go all the way through. Most of the time the two sides compromise and sign a one year deal like the Sox and Crede did. This changes nothing. If he is healthy, the price makes him attractive to a team looking to pick up a solid stick and glove for 3B.

voodoochile
01-17-2008, 11:57 PM
$15 million a year for Joe Crede?! :o: I know that Boras is crazy, but wow. And I love Joe Crede for his heroics. Still...

Still hoping for a market correction I see...

The Dude
01-18-2008, 01:08 AM
and now it's a lot more tangible a possibility, dude. :rolleyes:

hey don't bring me into this!

After all I want Crede traded!

SOXfnNlansing
01-18-2008, 01:08 AM
I'm glad they signed him no matter what happens...............

FireMariotti
01-18-2008, 04:29 AM
Why do people have to assume that the Sox have an ulterior motive behind this signing?

I think that they made a very smart deal signing him for one more year. Let's at least give Crede the chance to prove that he can still be a viable 3rd baseman before writing him off. He deserves that chance. If he sucks the Sox can cut their losses and part ways with him next offseason. If he continues to be a stellar third baseman with adequate offensive skills then the Sox can make a decision on him.

Right now, I bet other teams' desires for Crede are not high due to the uncertainty of his situation. If the Sox decide to deal him later on and stick with Josh Fields, they either:
A. Trade away Joe Crede, the same excellent 3rd baseman we saw in 2005 and some of 2006. We will, by then, know if Josh Fields is for real, and we can place him into the same role. If he reverts back to form and the Sox are struggling by mid season, they can deal him for more value than they would get now. If he reverts back to form and the Sox are in contention, then we have a great 3rd baseman that can help us in post-season play.
B. Cut ties with a washed up Joe Crede and lose little in return. Again, we will, by seasons end, know if Josh Fields is for real, and we can place him into the same role. The Sox will gain nothing from losing Crede to free agency, but they will lose little if Fields is as good as people think he is.

If they decide to keep Crede long term it will mean that he that much of a better option over Fields, and they are willing to pay for his services.

Here's to hoping Joe has a great 2008!:gulp:

itsnotrequired
01-18-2008, 06:02 AM
And when Crede's back gives out or he makes it through the season healthy and then Boras says, 5 years $75M to sign him, what then?

:dunno:

KyWhiSoxFan
01-18-2008, 06:41 AM
Signing Crede gives the Sox a lot of options. My best guess is that he is traded, not because they do not like him or think he's not going to recover from his back problems, but that he is not going to be worth spending $30- to $50-million on after this season on a long-term contract. He's already 30. Projecting what a guy might be like at 33 or 35 with a history of back problems can be scary.

soxinem1
01-18-2008, 07:24 AM
My bet is that Crede goes to ST, shows he can move around 3B, pull the ball into the gaps, and then gets moved.

There is the possibility that the season opens with two 3B, and Crede gets slowly worked into the lineup on a regular basis, but for how long? Clamoring for Crede-Konerko-Fields to form some silly rotation giving each of them 450 AB's just to keep all three on the team is not going to happen for the long haul of the season.

At this stage, trading Fields is probably not even an option, just because of the fact that the team is not going to lock up a ton of $$$ when they have another 3B who won't get a big paycheck for 3-4 years.

And for those of you hoping that Crede rebounds strongly and pulls a Buerhle type signing, that is a dream..... as long as you know who is his agent.

Either way, it is a better dilemna to have, IMHO, than they days when we were drawing straws at the position or converting the future GM of the team into a 3B.

palehozenychicty
01-18-2008, 08:22 AM
Still hoping for a market correction I see...

Not at all. It's just crazy, the kind of revenue flowing in MLB these days.

Rocky Soprano
01-18-2008, 09:05 AM
Cool the Sox have an actual third baseman under contract for the 2008 season.

:gulp:

russ99
01-18-2008, 09:15 AM
My bet is that Crede goes to ST, shows he can move around 3B, pull the ball into the gaps, and then gets moved.

There is the possibility that the season opens with two 3B, and Crede gets slowly worked into the lineup on a regular basis, but for how long? Clamoring for Crede-Konerko-Fields to form some silly rotation giving each of them 450 AB's just to keep all three on the team is not going to happen for the long haul of the season.

At this stage, trading Fields is probably not even an option, just because of the fact that the team is not going to lock up a ton of $$$ when they have another 3B who won't get a big paycheck for 3-4 years.

And for those of you hoping that Crede rebounds strongly and pulls a Buerhle type signing, that is a dream..... as long as you know who is his agent.

Either way, it is a better dilemna to have, IMHO, than they days when we were drawing straws at the position or converting the future GM of the team into a 3B.

While I agree on this being a run of the mill thing and avoiding arb with Joe, I think dealing Crede may go down a little later than most people think.

It all depends on what Joe shows in spring. If he looks like his 2006 self again, I could see Kenny shuttling Fields around occasionally playing 3B, both corner OF spots and even a bit at 1B.

Why deal Joe right away, when teams would be willing to give up much more closer to the deadline, and the Sox can use his bat the first half of the season?

If Joe looks bad and/or looks slow to recovery, we may see another Borchard-type deal at the end of Spring. But if he's playing well, why rush a deal?

ode to veeck
01-18-2008, 09:29 AM
Cool the Sox have an actual third baseman under contract for the 2008 season.


*woohoo*

The Sox vacumn cleaner at the hot corner is back!

I can't wait for some more of those worthless ribbies to make Shoota extra happy

johnr1note
01-18-2008, 09:32 AM
While I agree on this being a run of the mill thing and avoiding arb with Joe, I think dealing Crede may go down a little later than most people think.

It all depends on what Joe shows in spring. If he looks like his 2006 self again, I could see Kenny shuttling Fields around occasionally playing 3B, both corner OF spots and even a bit at 1B.

Why deal Joe right away, when teams would be willing to give up much more closer to the deadline, and the Sox can use his bat the first half of the season?

If Joe looks bad and/or looks slow to recovery, we may see another Borchard-type deal at the end of Spring. But if he's playing well, why rush a deal?

There is wisdom in what you say, but if Crede is healthy in ST, I see Fields getting farmed out and Joe playing everyday, at least until he's traded. There is nowhere else for Fields to play, and he'll be wasted on the bench.

But I think if Joe is healthy the likelihood of a trade prior to opening day is pretty high. Both from the standpoint of wanting to play Fields at 3rd, and solidifying our rotation, I would think KW is thinking of having that put together from day one, rather than waiting to see what happens.

ode to veeck
01-18-2008, 09:33 AM
It's quite unlikely Fields will be in LF this year, no matter what the knucklehead gallery of message boards and talk radio clamor for.

That leaves exactly two positions Fields/Crede can realistically play. We have one too many MLB-caliber starting players at the corner infield positions for a team with many holes, and the only viable trade solutions that reap benefits are to trade Konerko or....


If Crede's healthy, there's no way Fields is the regular 3B in '08

Chicken Dinner
01-18-2008, 09:36 AM
Now we have 2 3rd basemen, 2 shortstops, and a utility back-up for all four (Ozuna). I think we have the left side of the infield covered.

ode to veeck
01-18-2008, 09:39 AM
But I think if Joe is healthy the likelihood of a trade prior to opening day is pretty high. Both from the standpoint of wanting to play Fields at 3rd, and solidifying our rotation, I would think KW is thinking of having that put together from day one, rather than waiting to see what happens.

Why do you want to play Fields at 3rd if you have Joe!?! No way the question of Joe's health is answered by opening day and getting fair value for him tradewise is tough all year without a long term contract, even if his health / back durability question starts to become answered (like midseason when trading heats up again). Joe plays 3rd as long as he's healthy and groovin' for the '08 Sox.

ode to veeck
01-18-2008, 09:43 AM
And when Crede's back gives out or he makes it through the season healthy and then Boras says, 5 years $75M to sign him, what then?

Hopefully Boras falls on his face a couple more times by then and we really don't have to quite go down that path. Definitely keep Fields for now, watch the other new Sox players and see what shakes out here.

Flight #24
01-18-2008, 09:58 AM
$15 million a year for Joe Crede?! :o: I know that Boras is crazy, but wow. And I love Joe Crede for his heroics. Still...

Adam Eaton makes $8M. A Carlos freaking Silva just got $12M. And Aaron Rowand got $12M. Add salary inflation from this year to next and a healthy Joe Crede is going to get his $12-15M. Joe Crede if healthy is basically the 3B version of Torrii Hunter - solid but not great with the bat, great defender, good clubhouse guy. And an older Torii got $17M.

The average salary was just reported as almost $3M last year. When you figure the % of players making < $1M, that makes the aveage cost to sign an FA a lot higher than that. It seems like a lot because not 3 years ago Konerko got a "market" deal at $12M, but that's eons ago in MLB salary time.

balke
01-18-2008, 10:00 AM
Now we have 2 3rd basemen, 2 shortstops, and a utility back-up for all four (Ozuna). I think we have the left side of the infield covered.


Depth is a good thing. What you really have is:

Uribe: Can pretty much play 2B SS or 3B
Ramirez: Can play CF or SS
Crede: 3B
Fields: 3B or LF in a pinch
Ozuna: 2B, OF in Ozzie's world, and 3B in Ozzie's world
Richar: 2B and probably SS in a pinch
Cabrera: SS

I'm guessing they are all better than Andy Gonzalez or Cintron. Time will tell on that though.

I'm a huge fan of depth, I think depth is a big part of championships. The more a team scrambles due to injuries, the worse off they are.

There's enough power here to support a big hitter getting injured. And soon if this Dotel signing is true, enough bullpen arms to support an injury. If They sign Colon, I feel there's enough starting pitching to support an injury (which I hate to say, but this team is due for a starting pitcher injury).

SBSoxFan
01-18-2008, 10:11 AM
Why deal Joe right away, when teams would be willing to give up much more closer to the deadline, and the Sox can use his bat the first half of the season?

The last 2 years have shown that what teams will give up is directly related to guaranteed service time of the new player. So, it might go down the exact opposite of what you mentioned. 3 month's worth of Joe Crede won't be nearly as valuable as a year's worth of Joe Crede, even to a contender.

btrain929
01-18-2008, 10:41 AM
If Crede's healthy, there's no way Fields is the regular 3B in '08

Then where is he?

downstairs
01-18-2008, 10:50 AM
And when Crede's back gives out or he makes it through the season healthy and then Boras says, 5 years $75M to sign him, what then?

That's the point. We get him cheap for one year. We hope he does well, meaning we get a great deal. If he's hurt and doesn't play much or very well, we got our money's worth.

Then next year, we'll let the market decide and take it/leave it based on his 2008 performance.

Makes perfect sense. Low risk, high reward potential.

ode to veeck
01-18-2008, 10:51 AM
Then where is he?

not at 3rd for the most part

KenBerryGrab
01-18-2008, 10:55 AM
Then where is he?

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-1559485dt.jpg
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/spacer.gif

btrain929
01-18-2008, 11:23 AM
I wonder if it's possible to play Fields 2 games a week at 3rd to rest Crede, 1-2 games a week at DH when we face lefties, as well as pinch hitting responsibilites, if that would be enough action to keep him developing and progressing. If so, that would be a good way to play Crede and build up his trade value. I just think Fields in AAA is counter-productive.

Lip Man 1
01-18-2008, 11:25 AM
This is another step on the way to eventually trading Joe as soon as he proves his back is healthy, probably in spring training.

Remember folks, Kenny himself personally said he asked about a long term option with Joe last year and was told they only wanted a one year deal. Kenny's exact words on the situation were, "it (meaning the long term request) did not go well..."

That basically answers all the question's about Joe's future don't you think?

Lip

soxfan21
01-18-2008, 12:45 PM
This is another step on the way to eventually trading Joe as soon as he proves his back is healthy, probably in spring training.

Remember folks, Kenny himself personally said he asked about a long term option with Joe last year and was told they only wanted a one year deal. Kenny's exact words on the situation were, "it (meaning the long term request) did not go well..."

That basically answers all the question's about Joe's future don't you think?

Lip
I agree with you on this one. If Crede was going to stick around and not be traded this season, he would have signed something last year. Also, I think that Kenny is tired of dealing with Boras on certain issues and is seeing a young star developing in Fields.

Flight #24
01-18-2008, 12:51 PM
I agree with you on this one. If Crede was going to stick around and not be traded this season, he would have signed something last year. Also, I think that Kenny is tired of dealing with Boras on certain issues and is seeing a young star developing in Fields.

IMO this is more Joe's doing than anything. Remember - Kenny asked them what they'd want in terms of a long-term deal and the response was "we only want a 1-year". Not even "Well, market value for a GG, Silver Slugging 3B is $17M/yr over 6yrs".

That tells me that Joe's primary goal is to hit the market and max out. It's disappointing because I'd thought better of him, but apparently Bora$$ has brainwashed him enough. He gone for the first halfway reasonable deal. My only hope is that it's at least for $.75 on the dollar and not $.50.

Paulwny
01-18-2008, 01:01 PM
IMO this is more Joe's doing than anything. Remember - Kenny asked them what they'd want in terms of a long-term deal and the response was "we only want a 1-year". Not even "Well, market value for a GG, Silver Slugging 3B is $17M/yr over 6yrs".

That tells me that Joe's primary goal is to hit the market and max out. It's disappointing because I'd thought better of him, but apparently Bora$$ has brainwashed him enough. He gone for the first halfway reasonable deal. My only hope is that it's at least for $.75 on the dollar and not $.50.

In a way I don't blame him for seeking the big pay-off.
He might have a short career because of his back so he's maximizing his earning potential.

ArkanSox
01-18-2008, 01:06 PM
Assuming his back is back to normal, I want Crede as our 3rd baseman. There's no telling how many games he can save defensively, as compared to Fields. Crede's a true gamer, as is Konerko, and I hope they both stay with the Sox for many years to come. Who knows what might happen? Maybe Crede will eventually (in the midst of another magical season) dismiss Boras and forgo the BS and obscene $$$ to stay in Chitown.

Our starting pitching is what concerns me the most. Unless Contreras has yet another amazing revival, or during the off season the youngsters turn into phenoms, we could be in big trouble. Hopefully, KW can somehow bolster the starting staff without dealing Crede or Konerko.

LITTLE NELL
01-18-2008, 01:30 PM
I would love Crede to have a "comeback of the year" type of season and sign him so he would spend the rest of his career on the southside. I think this is a better team with him at 3rd and Fields in left. Fields is a good enough athlete to play a decent left field. If Ron Kittle and Ralph Garr can play left, so can Fields.

Jurr
01-18-2008, 01:45 PM
In a way I don't blame him for seeking the big pay-off.
He might have a short career because of his back so he's maximizing his earning potential.
EXACTLY. Even with microdiscectomy, the chances of the back staying 90-100% through an entire season are low. Add to that the likelihood that arthritic changes will affect the other discs (domino effect), and we're looking at a guy that should indeed be trying to set himself (and his family) for life.

Herniated discs are just an absolute can of worms, especially for someone in an athletic situation.

Trav
01-18-2008, 01:51 PM
This is another step on the way to eventually trading Joe as soon as he proves his back is healthy, probably in spring training.

Remember folks, Kenny himself personally said he asked about a long term option with Joe last year and was told they only wanted a one year deal. Kenny's exact words on the situation were, "it (meaning the long term request) did not go well..."

That basically answers all the question's about Joe's future don't you think?

Lip

If he proves he is healthy in spring training, I hope they either deal Fields, or trade Konerko and move Fields to first. You don't come across a Joe Crede every few years and if he is healthy, trading him away would be unfortunate.

Lip Man 1
01-18-2008, 01:52 PM
Nell:

Kenny was quoted again directly at White Sox.com in the story on this as saying the "experiment with Fields in left is over..."

Take it for what it may be worth to you.

Lip

oeo
01-18-2008, 03:08 PM
Nell:

Kenny was quoted again directly at White Sox.com in the story on this as saying the "experiment with Fields in left is over..."

Take it for what it may be worth to you.

Lip

There's really no room for him out there, anyway. We already have too many corner outfielders.

Now centerfield...you think he could learn that by March 31?

Flight #24
01-18-2008, 03:13 PM
In a way I don't blame him for seeking the big pay-off.
He might have a short career because of his back so he's maximizing his earning potential.

I guess my amazement is that after it's all said and done, if the Sox were willing to make him say a Konerko offer, he wouldn't be interested. That's what his response tells me. That's beyond wanting to insure himself for his back. In fact, were he worried about the back giving way and getting his one big payday, a conservative approach would be to try and get the Sox to commit to a decent extension right now.

Bottom line: if he wanted to be here, he'd at least make an attempt to get a deal. He has instead said the reverse: I don't want to be here unless you beat out each and every alternate offer. That's what's disappointing.

santo=dorf
01-18-2008, 03:22 PM
The Sox vacumn cleaner at the hot corner is back!
First off, he never left.
Second, it's possible he could not be part of team for 2008.
Third, he's also a vacumn at the plate because he sucks offensively.

chisoxmike
01-18-2008, 03:23 PM
First off, he never left.
Second, it's possible he could not be part of team for 2008.
Third, he's also a vacumn at the plate because he sucks offensively.

You didn't watch the 2005 playoffs!!!!!!!!!

champagne030
01-18-2008, 03:33 PM
I guess my amazement is that after it's all said and done, if the Sox were willing to make him say a Konerko offer, he wouldn't be interested. That's what his response tells me. That's beyond wanting to insure himself for his back. In fact, were he worried about the back giving way and getting his one big payday, a conservative approach would be to try and get the Sox to commit to a decent extension right now.

Bottom line: if he wanted to be here, he'd at least make an attempt to get a deal. He has instead said the reverse: I don't want to be here unless you beat out each and every alternate offer. That's what's disappointing.

I haven't read this thread except this last page. That said, what has happened that would suggest he would turn down a 5/$60M deal? There's no chance the Sox are offering that deal. It might be that the Sox have offered 3/$15M or something along those lines and he thinks that his back is fine and why counter with against something that you feel is crazy. I don't fault either party in this case. My gut tells Joe will be fine for the next few years (concerning his back). Again, that's not certain and it would be nuts for the Sox to offer a big deal at this point. Also, it would be nuts for Joe to take a small offer if he feels that his back has been fixed.

the1tab
01-18-2008, 03:41 PM
Nell:

Kenny was quoted again directly at White Sox.com in the story on this as saying the "experiment with Fields in left is over..."

Take it for what it may be worth to you.

Lip

This reminds of me of when the Bears signed Edgar Bennet a couple weeks before the Curtis Enis draft, The Mustache Named Wannstedt told the media he was happy at the position, and then we all wondered why there was no trade value for the pick of Enis.

By screaming "JOE CREDE IS EXPENDIBLE" it diminishes the value for him on the market. And I know, he was hurt last year and has limited value, but there are a lot of teams that would love to have a gold glove caliber 3B who can his 20 home runs... if Scott Rolen and his injury issues and Troy Glaus and his steroid issues can move, there's a market for 3B. But when you tell the world you don't need the guy making $5.15m, it's a lot harder to get what value he has in return.

Optipessimism
01-18-2008, 06:58 PM
This reminds of me of when the Bears signed Edgar Bennet a couple weeks before the Curtis Enis draft, The Mustache Named Wannstedt told the media he was happy at the position, and then we all wondered why there was no trade value for the pick of Enis.

By screaming "JOE CREDE IS EXPENDIBLE" it diminishes the value for him on the market. And I know, he was hurt last year and has limited value, but there are a lot of teams that would love to have a gold glove caliber 3B who can his 20 home runs... if Scott Rolen and his injury issues and Troy Glaus and his steroid issues can move, there's a market for 3B. But when you tell the world you don't need the guy making $5.15m, it's a lot harder to get what value he has in return.
Regardless of what KW says or doesn't say, every GM in baseball knows Crede is going to be dealt. It's very simple. You have a veteran coming off major surgery after missing almost an entire season who is one year from FA with Boras as an agent, and you also have a slugging 3B coming up making the minimum. It's a no-brainer.

As far as his value, it depends on how healthy he is in ST and how well he's hitting. If he starts looking like the 2006 Joe, then it will drive teams in need of a 3B to compete against each other for him. Teams rumored to have interest are Philly, the Angels, and the Giants. If the Sox have those three teams all making an offer, we'll get something useful. It doesn't matter what is said in the media.

raven1
01-18-2008, 07:04 PM
IMO this is more Joe's doing than anything. Remember - Kenny asked them what they'd want in terms of a long-term deal and the response was "we only want a 1-year". Not even "Well, market value for a GG, Silver Slugging 3B is $17M/yr over 6yrs".

That tells me that Joe's primary goal is to hit the market and max out. It's disappointing because I'd thought better of him, but apparently Bora$$ has brainwashed him enough. He gone for the first halfway reasonable deal. My only hope is that it's at least for $.75 on the dollar and not $.50.
I like what Joe has done for the team, but sadly it looks like Boras' strategy of playing out the year & getting the big payday may be about to blow up in his face. Coming off the career year in 2006 it might have made sense, but the chances of his back staying healthy enough through the whole 2008 season so a team will risk a 5-year big-money deal are low.

I expect that the Sox will trade Crede for prospects sometime this spring, and he may or may not be healthy enough to give his new team a full, productive season. 5 years from now it will be interesting to compare the Crede vs. Fields performance, but I would put my bets on Josh (particularly at the price). Remember how bad Crede was for the first 3 or so years (up until late 2005) - Fields is ahead of offensively at this point in his career, and while he will probably never win a gold glove I think it's an exaggeration to call him a defensive liability.

Brian26
01-18-2008, 08:40 PM
Remember how bad Crede was for the first 3 or so years (up until late 2005) - Fields is ahead of offensively at this point in his career, and while he will probably never win a gold glove I think it's an exaggeration to call him a defensive liability.

I don't think Crede should be defined as being bad up until the 2005 playoffs. He was a streaky hitter who gradually became more disciplined at the plate and had a knack for big-moment homeruns. He did well when he got called up in the second half of '02, and he showed a lot of improvement in 2004.

santo=dorf
01-18-2008, 08:46 PM
I don't think Crede should be defined as being bad up until the 2005 playoffs. He was a streaky hitter who gradually became more disciplined at the plate and had a knack for big-moment homeruns. He did well when he got called up in the second half of '02, and he showed a lot of improvement in 2004.
Huh?

2004 was his worst year aside last year's injury-plagued season.

Brian26
01-18-2008, 08:50 PM
Huh?

2004 was his worst year aside last year's injury-plagued season.

You're correct. I didn't realize his average was so pathetic in July and August. My memory is skewed; he had that big walkoff homer against the Tigers on 7/24 that put the Sox back into first place, but it looks like he was awful after June and before September.

drewcifer
01-18-2008, 08:53 PM
Regardless of what KW says or doesn't say, every GM in baseball knows Crede is going to be dealt. It's very simple. You have a veteran coming off major surgery after missing almost an entire season who is one year from FA with Boras as an agent, and you also have a slugging 3B coming up making the minimum. It's a no-brainer.

As far as his value, it depends on how healthy he is in ST and how well he's hitting. If he starts looking like the 2006 Joe, then it will drive teams in need of a 3B to compete against each other for him. Teams rumored to have interest are Philly, the Angels, and the Giants. If the Sox have those three teams all making an offer, we'll get something useful. It doesn't matter what is said in the media.

Agreed - This is just a formality of getting through arbitration. He is now packaged and ready for shipment. Just needs to show a halfway decent ST performance and hopefully we find a match with the needed return parts.

areilly
01-18-2008, 11:44 PM
You're correct. I didn't realize his average was so pathetic in July and August. My memory is skewed; he had that big walkoff homer against the Tigers on 7/24 that put the Sox back into first place, but it looks like he was awful after June and before September.

I was at that game, and what an awesome finish. Crede hit that one off of Ugeth Urbina to give the Sox a 7-6 win and sole possession of first place for what was, unfortunately, the last time that season.

Flight #24
01-18-2008, 11:56 PM
I haven't read this thread except this last page. That said, what has happened that would suggest he would turn down a 5/$60M deal? There's no chance the Sox are offering that deal. It might be that the Sox have offered 3/$15M or something along those lines and he thinks that his back is fine and why counter with against something that you feel is crazy. I don't fault either party in this case. My gut tells Joe will be fine for the next few years (concerning his back). Again, that's not certain and it would be nuts for the Sox to offer a big deal at this point. Also, it would be nuts for Joe to take a small offer if he feels that his back has been fixed.

The fact that the Sox haven't made an offer (at least reportedly). They asked Joe/Bora$$ what ballpark they'd want in a long-term deal and were told "no thanks, we prefer not to let you know, we only want a 1-year deal". That's not what a player who wants to stay at a market-level deal says, that's what a player/agent who want every last dollar they can squeeze out of some team says.

sullythered
01-19-2008, 06:31 AM
If we trade Joe away I don't want to read any posts calling for Kenny to trade for another bat come the deadline.

Herbal
01-19-2008, 10:30 AM
Many people in this thread have said that this signing means nothing. I agree to a point that this was just a way to avoid arbitration, but I do think the certainly of his salary makes Joe at least a little more tradable before ST. I'm not sure that any team will offer a decent package without seeing him play, but not knowing how much you may pay for a guy who may not play well (or at all) is even worse.

Had the parties exchanged arbitration figures yet, and if so, does anyone have information on them? I'd be curious to see where this offer fell if they had.

Optipessimism
01-19-2008, 10:41 PM
Had the parties exchanged arbitration figures yet, and if so, does anyone have information on them? I'd be curious to see where this offer fell if they had.

They hardly ever make anything like that public.

ilsox7
01-19-2008, 11:16 PM
They hardly ever make anything like that public.

Actually, they pretty much make all of those numbers public.

drewcifer
01-19-2008, 11:21 PM
Actually, they pretty much make all of those numbers public.

No, I don't think they do. They can announce what was agreed upon - sure, but nothing in between. That's held in confidence.

ilsox7
01-19-2008, 11:47 PM
No, I don't think they do. They can announce what was agreed upon - sure, but nothing in between. That's held in confidence.

I read several articles this week that talked about the numbers sides exchanged. Unless we are talking about different things here.

EDIT: For instance:

Ryan Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7437) asked the Philadelphia Phillies (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi) for a $10 million contract in salary arbitration, and Los Angeles Angels (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa) closer Francisco Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7029) requested $12.5 million when players and teams swapped figures.

and

The Phillies offered Howard, the 2006 NL MVP, a $7 million salary. The $3 million gap between the sides was the largest among the 48 players who exchanged proposals with their teams. Rodriguez and the Angels were next at $2.5 million after the club offered him $10 million.

pierzynski07
01-19-2008, 11:59 PM
By a certain day, if arbitration players aren't signed, then both the team and player must submit official number offers. That's why those numbers became public.

Rounding_Third
01-20-2008, 11:44 AM
Agreed - This is just a formality of getting through arbitration. He is now packaged and ready for shipment. Just needs to show a halfway decent ST performance and hopefully we find a match with the needed return parts.

Agreed! And if the offers are weak then we should roll the dice and hope Joe gets off to a hot start. Then we can trade him before the deadline for quality. If he struggles then we're no worse off.

soxfanreggie
01-20-2008, 05:54 PM
1.) I'm not one that considers $5.1 million a "low-risk, high reward" contract. IMO, that would be like $1, 2, or even 3 million.

2.) We need to do whatever we can to ship him or Uribe out to free up some room for other positions, and hopefully we can maximize the prospects we get out of the deal (pitching preferably). Although, I'd take anything for Uribe if it means we get his entire salary off the books. Having Pablo and them both hurts other areas where we don't have roster spots yet. Having Ozuna is great because he can play most positions, but then we have both Crede and Uribe on the bench or Crede at 3B and Fields in LF and Quentin on the bench.

TDog
01-21-2008, 10:35 AM
Then where is he?

I have heard Fields will play no more left. If he isn't starting at third for the Sox, he figures to be starting at third in AAA.