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View Full Version : How would you rank the Sox young players


Rockabilly
01-13-2008, 01:49 PM
I have heard so much about the Sox farm system being weak but we have a several great young players on the major league level.. So how would rank the top 10 players in the organzation that are under the age of 30

oeo
01-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Buehrle
Swisher
Jenks
Fields
Quentin
Danks
Richar
Owens
Floyd
WassermannThat's how I would rank the guys under 30 on the 40-man roster. Crede could also be included, but he's pushing 30 and will likely not be with the team much longer.

Of course there are some close calls...Swisher and Jenks was tough. The last four I had trouble ranking, as well.

EDIT: Forgot about Danny Richar.

Rockabilly
01-13-2008, 02:07 PM
Buehrle
Swisher
Jenks
Fields
Quentin
Danks
Owens
Floyd
Wassermann
MassetThat's how I would rank the guys under 30 on the 40-man roster. Crede could also be included, but he's pushing 30 and will likely not be with the team much longer.


I like your list but would have Broadway instead of Floyd on it, I think he will be huge for the Sox in the 09 season..

soxfanreggie
01-13-2008, 02:38 PM
1. MB
2. Jenks-IMO, a lot more guys can do what Swisher does than Bobby does. I would put Bobby in the top few of his position; I don't think I can say the same as Swisher (although Swisher can play multiple positions).
3. Swisher

PalehosePlanet
01-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Buehrle
Swisher
Jenks
Fields
Quentin
Danks
Richar
Owens
Floyd
WassermannThat's how I would rank the guys under 30 on the 40-man roster. Crede could also be included, but he's pushing 30 and will likely not be with the team much longer.

Of course there are some close calls...Swisher and Jenks was tough. The last four I had trouble ranking, as well.

EDIT: Forgot about Danny Richar.

Your 1-7 is solid, but I would put Floyd 8, Boone Logan 9, and Massett 10.

I think Boone will develop into a solid lefty setup man in due time; the stuff is certainly there. I also do like like Wasserman and think there is always a place in a bullpen for the different look that he provides.

fquaye149
01-14-2008, 12:27 AM
1. MB
2. Jenks-IMO, a lot more guys can do what Swisher does than Bobby does. I would put Bobby in the top few of his position; I don't think I can say the same as Swisher (although Swisher can play multiple positions).
3. Swisher

Jenks has been great, but his career isn't likely to go on for much much longer. If he's still closing ballgames in 3 years, I'll be a little surprised, not because of a lack of talent on his part, but just because relief pitchers, and especially closers, don't have long careers in general.

Swisher, on the other hand, is just entering his prime at a position where he can easily have a long career, AND he has already managed to put up very very good numbers.

Sure, not many people can close ball games, but not many people can get on base 40% of the time, hit a good amount of HR's, AND have base stealing ability (albeit mild)

MetroPD
01-14-2008, 02:27 AM
Yep just ask Trevor Hoffman and Lee Smith.

WhiteSox5187
01-14-2008, 04:53 AM
Yep just ask Trevor Hoffman and Lee Smith.
Those would be the exceptions to the rule...however I see no reason for Jenks not to continue to dominate for a long while.

103 screwball
01-14-2008, 09:22 AM
Those would be the exceptions to the rule...however I see no reason for Jenks not to continue to dominate for a long while.

I hope you are right, but Jenks is a tad overweight and has some hardware in his arm from prior surgery. I like the kid and I hope he continues to do well.

fquaye149
01-14-2008, 10:24 AM
I love Jenks, and hope he pitches well for 10-15 more years, but frankly, a guy who relies on velocity as much as Jenks does (even though he DOES have quite a good curveball) and has had arm problems before, would be a bad long-term risk at any pitching position, much less the most volatile of all....

WhiteSox5187
01-14-2008, 01:11 PM
I love Jenks, and hope he pitches well for 10-15 more years, but frankly, a guy who relies on velocity as much as Jenks does (even though he DOES have quite a good curveball) and has had arm problems before, would be a bad long-term risk at any pitching position, much less the most volatile of all....
I'm not saying he's going to dominate for the next ten years, but for the next three, I see no reason why not. His velocity is still there (though it waned early on the in year in '07) and has nasty stuff and the ability to get guys out. Also with relievers LIKE Lee Smith and Trevor Hoffman, they had up and down years...but yea, I think Jenks will be good for awhile, he is the least of my worries going into this year's bullpen.

oeo
01-14-2008, 07:14 PM
I love Jenks, and hope he pitches well for 10-15 more years, but frankly, a guy who relies on velocity as much as Jenks does (even though he DOES have quite a good curveball) and has had arm problems before, would be a bad long-term risk at any pitching position, much less the most volatile of all....

Actually, he doesn't even rely on his fastball anymore...and he's only 26. The days of Jenks just blowing the ball past guys were short, and are over. I don't know if he'll ever throw in triple digits again, but I do know he doesn't have to. He's developing into quite the pitcher...when he first came up, he was a thrower. He's just flat out nasty already, and is still getting better.

I don't think Jenks will pitch a long career, but definitely more than three more years. I'll say he's still around for another 6-8 years.

That's why I said Swisher and Jenks were tough to decide. I could really go either way.

fquaye149
01-14-2008, 07:27 PM
Actually, he doesn't even rely on his fastball anymore...and he's only 26. The days of Jenks just blowing the ball past guys were short, and are over. I don't know if he'll ever throw in triple digits again, but I do know he doesn't have to. He's developing into quite the pitcher...when he first came up, he was a thrower. He's just flat out nasty already, and is still getting better.

I don't think Jenks will pitch a long career, but definitely more than three more years. I'll say he's still around for another 6-8 years.

That's why I said Swisher and Jenks were tough to decide. I could really go either way.

In the post I quoted, I noted that Jenks doesn't JUST throw his fastball.

However, his fastball is his pitch that sets up his ability to throw his curveball so effectively.

If his fastball even loses a little gas, ALL his pitches will get worse, relatively speaking, not just his fastball.

Predicting he'll stick around for 6-8 years is a bit ridiculous, unless you mean he might move to middle relief. Name 3 non-hall-of-fame-bound closers (Lee Smith notwithstanding) who were elite closers for 6 years, much less the 9-11 years you're predicting Jenks will be a closer

fquaye149
01-14-2008, 07:28 PM
I'm not saying he's going to dominate for the next ten years, but for the next three, I see no reason why not. His velocity is still there (though it waned early on the in year in '07) and has nasty stuff and the ability to get guys out. Also with relievers LIKE Lee Smith and Trevor Hoffman, they had up and down years...but yea, I think Jenks will be good for awhile, he is the least of my worries going into this year's bullpen.


Smith and Hoffman didn't rely on velocity to the extent that Jenks does.

Hoffman, for instance, had 3 more plus pitches to go along with his wicked changeup

oeo
01-14-2008, 10:31 PM
In the post I quoted, I noted that Jenks doesn't JUST throw his fastball.

However, his fastball is his pitch that sets up his ability to throw his curveball so effectively.

If his fastball even loses a little gas, ALL his pitches will get worse, relatively speaking, not just his fastball.

And I disagreed with all that you said. I don't see how suddenly his fastball is going to drop 6-7 mph. He's still young. By the time his fastball is in the lower 90s, he will have mastered the art of pitching, and no longer need a fastball. He's already started to need it less and less.

Predicting he'll stick around for 6-8 years is a bit ridiculous, unless you mean he might move to middle relief. Name 3 non-hall-of-fame-bound closers (Lee Smith notwithstanding) who were elite closers for 6 years, much less the 9-11 years you're predicting Jenks will be a closerI never said he would be a closer all of those years. You said he would be out of the league within 3 years. I highly doubt that. He's only 26 years old...he'll be around for longer than that. And if he masters pitching, like I think he will do because he's already improved upon pitching in the two years he's been here, then he will be a closer all that time.

This isn't Billy Koch we're talking about here, where he needed that fastball. This guy is going to be a very good pitcher.

cws05champ
01-14-2008, 11:05 PM
I love Jenks, and hope he pitches well for 10-15 more years, but frankly, a guy who relies on velocity as much as Jenks does (even though he DOES have quite a good curveball) and has had arm problems before, would be a bad long-term risk at any pitching position, much less the most volatile of all....

His curve ball is the exact reason why he probably would not last long term. It puts so much more stress on the elbow and Shoulder than a fastball. Also, this past year Jenks did not have to rely on his velocity solely. He was not throwing it up there at 97+, but he learned to pitch with a cutter, curve to go along with the 92-95 FB.

Metalthrasher442
01-14-2008, 11:10 PM
His curve ball is the exact reason why he probably would not last long term. It puts so much more stress on the elbow and Shoulder than a fastball. Also, this past year Jenks did not have to rely on his velocity solely. He was not throwing it up there at 97+, but he learned to pitch with a cutter, curve to go along with the 92-95 FB.

I was just about to say that.

Mostly the 92 mph range too!

I say we keep him for about four more years and then trade him while his values high!

Unless he still looks really great..which I hope because I love the guy.

fquaye149
01-15-2008, 12:45 AM
And I disagreed with all that you said. I don't see how suddenly his fastball is going to drop 6-7 mph. He's still young. By the time his fastball is in the lower 90s, he will have mastered the art of pitching, and no longer need a fastball. He's already started to need it less and less.

I never said he would be a closer all of those years. You said he would be out of the league within 3 years. I highly doubt that. He's only 26 years old...he'll be around for longer than that. And if he masters pitching, like I think he will do because he's already improved upon pitching in the two years he's been here, then he will be a closer all that time.

This isn't Billy Koch we're talking about here, where he needed that fastball. This guy is going to be a very good pitcher.

It doesn't HAVE to drop 6-7 mph.

If it drops a couple you'll see him be less effective.

Yes, he's young, but so are lots of closers, and very few of them remain effective...particularly those who rely on velocity as much as Jenks.

I'm not comparing him to Koch. I'm comparing him to the likes of Gagne, Lidge, and numerous other great-looking relief pitchers who flamed out like a ton of bricks. And I'm not even really comparing him to them. I'm just saying closer is a role where, no matter what your body type, pitch selection, and age, you're likely to deteriorate rapidly.

The fact that Bobby relies on his fastball more than most, is not really in good shape, and has had arm problems in the past sure doesn't make him a LESS likely risk than your average closer

Madscout
01-16-2008, 07:23 PM
I'll bet if he learns a cutter and a change up, he will be around a few more years. A change would especially help, because he could use as he uses his curveball, which would make his chances of being injured less.

PalehosePlanet
01-17-2008, 12:49 PM
Smith and Hoffman didn't rely on velocity to the extent that Jenks does.

Hoffman, for instance, had 3 more plus pitches to go along with his wicked changeup

Not sure which Trevor Hoffman you've been watching but the one I see hasn't hit 92 with the fastball in years, and has passable but certainly not "plus" breaking pitches. ALL he has is a great changeup; his secondary pitches are below average. You have a 50/50 chance with him (ala Keith Foulke), it's either an 88-91 fastball or a 75-80 changeup, a hitter needn't look for anything else.

Also Lee Smith relied waaaayyy more on his fastball than Jenks, as does Jason Isringhausen, for example.

Bobby with a plus fastball, a plus curveball and a quickly emerging out pitch in his cutter already has more of a varied arsenal than the aforementioned closers.

I'm not sure if he'll have a long career, he might not, but the reasons you give and the examples you give are off base and are not supporting your argument.