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View Full Version : Is there anyone who believes Clemens?


Whitesox029
01-08-2008, 08:38 PM
I know there's probably been a lot of discussion on this in the forty other threads, but I didn't see one specifically dedicated to opinions.

I'd really like to believe Roger Clemens. To be honest, in my mind, pitching is what makes baseball the thinking man's game that it is. I've never had any particular attachment to Clemens, but I hate to see such amazing accomplishments tainted by the steroids stigma. That said, how can I possibly believe him? I don't see why McNamee would tell the truth about Pettitte and lie about Clemens. The whole thing reminds me of the Pete Rose situation, where he vehemently denied betting for nearly 20 years before finally owning up.
So, can anyone honestly envision a situation in which Clemens is not lying through his teeth?

RadioheadRocks
01-08-2008, 09:01 PM
Somebody (I'm not sure who) on ESPN Radio early this morning apparently believes him. He went on and on about Roger's interviews and how he carefully answered his questions, not throwing any specific person under the bus. I just laughed and turned the radio off at that point.

FarWestChicago
01-08-2008, 09:20 PM
:barrybonds

I think he's innocent.

kevin57
01-08-2008, 09:22 PM
Sorry, don't believe Rodger the dodger. Once he files a lawsuit and is willing to undergo the deposition process, then I may reconsider, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that day.

Daver
01-08-2008, 09:28 PM
Sorry, don't believe Rodger the dodger. Once he files a lawsuit and is willing to undergo the deposition process, then I may reconsider, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that day.

He filed a defamation suit yesterday.

LongLiveFisk
01-08-2008, 09:41 PM
I think it's possible but who really knows? The whole steroid thing has become such a witch-hunt that any name mentioned will have to prove his innocence rather than the other way around. Kind of weird in a democracy, but oh well.....

the1tab
01-08-2008, 09:45 PM
I appreciated his response to Mike Wallace when asked what the punishment should be if somone doped. He said they're getting it; they're bodies are going to break down. LOL.

The same guy that retired the first time because he wanted his mother to see him enter the Hall of Fame now doesn't care if he gets in? The same guy who signed a multi-million dollar memorabilia deal with Steiner Sports before his "last season," who was celebrated in his "final start" every time he left the mound the entire season, who received a standing ovation ON THE ROAD IN THE WORLD SERIES, only to come back a year later in a different city for another "farewell tour"... this is the guy who nows tells the media to "keep [their] votes"???

I'm sorry. I haven't respected him in a few years, but now I loathe him. He's full of ****, he's a fake, and he's making enough of an a$$ of himself that we don't hear about Barry Bonds pending federal trial any more.

I hope he goes to Congress, tries to spin the same line of BS he did on 60 Minutes, and gets sent to Camp Vick w/ Bonds and the rest of the liars.

God Bless Jim Thome & Frank Thomas for keeping it real.

voodoochile
01-08-2008, 09:54 PM
I think it's possible but who really knows? The whole steroid thing has become such a witch-hunt that any name mentioned will have to prove his innocence rather than the other way around. Kind of weird in a democracy, but oh well.....

Now hold on. The evidence was obtained under oath by federal investigators. This isn't some cheesy Internet rumor. The guy who said it risks perjury and obstruction charges as well as lawsuits if he is lying.

Yeah, maybe he does get off in a court of law if it comes down to he said/he said, but right now the evidence doesn't exactly point to a person being wronged on a random witch hunt.

LongLiveFisk
01-08-2008, 09:58 PM
Now hold on. The evidence was obtained under oath by federal investigators. This isn't some cheesy Internet rumor. The guy who said it risks perjury and obstruction charges as well as lawsuits if he is lying.

Yeah, maybe he does get off in a court of law if it comes down to he said/he said, but right now the evidence doesn't exactly point to a person being wronged on a random witch hunt.

Oh, I know, I'm just saying at this point anyone could be accused and you'll get a whole bunch of people to believe it even without the slightest bit of evidence. That's where the defamation of character comes into question.

voodoochile
01-08-2008, 10:06 PM
Oh, I know, I'm just saying at this point anyone could be accused and you'll get a whole bunch of people to believe it even without the slightest bit of evidence. That's where the defamation of character comes into question.

You lay down with dogs, don't be surprised if you get up with fleas...

No seriously. I think there are a bunch of people who will believe anything they read on the Internet. I also think that there are plenty of us who would want to see that there is sworn testimony minimum before throwing someone under the bus.

Sworn testimony + no decline or actually some of his best years ever as he aged + the various examples of uncontrolled anger = highly probable that Roger used PED's to a lot of people. Short of a name on a buy order at Balco Roger's appears about as guilty as he can...

pearso66
01-08-2008, 10:17 PM
There are 2 reasons mainly that I don't believe him, besides the fact I thought he did them before this came out anyway.

1. Why did he wait so long to come out and speak against it? He should have come out immediately after the Mitchell Report was released and denied it.

2. He said the proof he didn't take steroids was he didn't have a 3rd ear growing out of his forehead, and he couldn't pull a tractor with his teeth. Maybe it was supposed to be a joke, but if that's the case, it was a pretty lame case, and If I was Mike Wallace, or whomever interviewed him, I would have called him out and asked where Jose Canseco's 3rd ear was, or anyone else who admitted to steroid use.

the1tab
01-08-2008, 10:20 PM
You lay down with dogs, don't be surprised if you get up with fleas...

No seriously. I think there are a bunch of people who will believe anything they read on the Internet. I also think that there are plenty of us who would want to see that there is sworn testimony minimum before throwing someone under the bus.

Sworn testimony + no decline or actually some of his best years ever as he aged + the various examples of uncontrolled anger = highly probable that Roger used PED's to a lot of people. Short of a name on a buy order at Balco Roger's appears about as guilty as he can...

Preach on brother.

Furthermore, lest we forget that Clemens' homeboy, the reason he unretired to join the astrohs, Andy Pettite, who worked out w/ him and the trainer in question, came out the day after the Mitchell report and said "whelp, ya got me. I did it. sorry." They worked out together with this guy, and yet Clemens has no knowledge of steroids being used or how or where someone would get them? His best friend was doing them in his own house.

Scratch them fleas.

chaerulez
01-09-2008, 12:19 AM
Clemens and his dog and pony show didn't help his case at all. His phone conversation all he had to say was, "Brian I know you are lying so tell the world I didn't take steroids."

Why didn't he say that?

Was it probably because McNamee would then say, "Well that wouldn't be the truth Roger?"

How would Clemens not be aware of his close friend Andy Pettite not taking steroids?

It would be much like how Sheffield and Bonds didn't know much about either other despite basically spending an entire offseason together.

Clemens has made mistake after mistake. Nothing he has done has shown he is innocent.

WhiteSox5187
01-09-2008, 01:26 AM
I think there is grounds for reasonable doubt now, I'm not saying that he's innocent, but I'm not sold 100% on the idea that he used steroids although there is a huge chunk of evidence (mainly his stats) to suggest that he did...but what i can't wrap my tiny little mind around is why he would go through filing a defemation suit and go before Congress under oath to show his innocence? If McNamee (not to mention Pettite, this whole case really might come down to Pettite) has solid evidence against Clemens, is he (Clemens) not aware of how much trouble he can get into for perjury???

Rockin Robin
01-09-2008, 12:43 PM
It all comes down to Macnamee. Why would he lie about Clemens? What does he gain by dragging his idol through the mud? Absolutely nothing. And if he's trying to stay out of prison, why throw Clemens in there as an addition when that itself would send him to prison?

southside rocks
01-09-2008, 01:12 PM
:barrybonds

I think he's innocent.

:fobbgod:

You're darn right he's innocent!

russ99
01-09-2008, 02:52 PM
Once his best friend, workout partner and partner in crime Pettitte admitted it, Clemens should have too.

Now he ends up looking like a worse cheater and horrible liar.

Carolina Kenny
01-09-2008, 04:20 PM
There are 2 reasons mainly that I don't believe him, besides the fact I thought he did them before this came out anyway.

1. Why did he wait so long to come out and speak against it? He should have come out immediately after the Mitchell Report was released and denied it.

2. He said the proof he didn't take steroids was he didn't have a 3rd ear growing out of his forehead, and he couldn't pull a tractor with his teeth. Maybe it was supposed to be a joke, but if that's the case, it was a pretty lame case, and If I was Mike Wallace, or whomever interviewed him, I would have called him out and asked where Jose Canseco's 3rd ear was, or anyone else who admitted to steroid use.

I am mystified with the "third ear" comment. In the sixties, I grew a third eye in my forehead many times but never a third ear.

FedEx227
01-09-2008, 05:43 PM
Hey to guys interested in this topic (Clemens lawsuit), it's going to be our main topic tonight on my radio show 643 Sports.

www.blogtalkradio.com/643sports (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/643sports)

We have a copy of the lawsuit and are going to go over it's specifics as well as the hilarious parts of it, so if you get a chance listen in, should be cool. We have a call in number too if you have anything to add or questions 646-716-7510, also theres a live chat during the show which is always fun.

This is not meant to be spam (I've asked voodoo about it before), it's completely profitless, just thought the interested people would like to join us, hope to make our 90 minutes go by faster than usual.

getonbckthr
01-09-2008, 06:12 PM
I'm in option #3, I don't know.

RockyMtnSoxFan
01-09-2008, 07:31 PM
Apparently Congress has now postponed their hearings in order to require depositions from the players involved. This means that they are serious about the hearings actually meaning something. If there is anything that is waiting to come out and destroy the credibility of one side or the other, this could bring it to light.