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View Full Version : Are we now contenders or pretenders?


Dolanski
01-04-2008, 02:31 AM
With the addition of Nick Swisher kinda rounding out our off season, is the current White Sox squad contending or pretending?

esbrechtel
01-04-2008, 02:35 AM
They play the games for a reason...I thought Detriot was gonna be amazing last season...they were returning a whole bunch of guys and added Sheffield, that being said they had a ton of key injuries that really cost them in the end...anything could happen so why not us?

gogosox16
01-04-2008, 02:36 AM
Anything can happen and until we are mathematically eliminated we are contenders.

rdivaldi
01-04-2008, 02:37 AM
With the addition of Nick Swisher kinda rounding out our off season, is the current White Sox squad contending or pretending?

If this rounds out our off-season, we're pretenders without some help from the baseball G-ds. Our rotation is not going to cut it.

gogosox16
01-04-2008, 02:39 AM
They play the games for a reason...I thought Detriot was gonna be amazing last season...they were returning a whole bunch of guys and added Sheffield, that being said they had a ton of key injuries that really cost them in the end...anything could happen so why not us?
That sounds like us in 2006 when we kept pretty much the core and added Thome. But we know there is a reason they play the games now. God I remember everyone was picking us to repeat and ESPN had us being amazing they had Brian Anderson batting like .270. Lol we all know that didn't happen now

Dolanski
01-04-2008, 02:42 AM
Anything can happen and until we are mathematically eliminated we are contenders.



They play the games for a reason...


Not exactly the ringing endorsements I thought would come. Still, 4 prime years cheap of a OBP guy who plays hard and is a clubhouse guy. I like it.

That sneaky Kenny, so under the radar, this must have been his plan all along...

gogosox16
01-04-2008, 02:42 AM
If this rounds out our off-season, we're pretenders without some help from the baseball G-ds. Our rotation is not going to cut it.
So your saying the day we traded Garland you have thought we have slim shot to contend because of our rotation. Come on now we had a guy in Contreras that struggled but at the end of the year he was slowly starting to look like the pitcher we had before....Danks was a 21-22 year old rookie that wasn't even suppose to make the team and he had some ups and downs, he will get better....Floyd is the only one concerns me. He seems to be the kind of guy that one day he could throw a no hitter and then the next day after an inning he's on the bench already given up 5 runs. I trust this rotation to do a good job

Nellie_Fox
01-04-2008, 02:44 AM
I may be delusional, but I have this suspicion that Contreras will bounce back this year. And, based on Carlos Silva's new contract, he's become cheap!

gogosox16
01-04-2008, 02:45 AM
I may be delusional, but I have this suspicion that Contreras will bounce back this year. And, based on Carlos Silva's new contract, he's become cheap!
Jose Contreras contract is now a steal compared what Carlos Silva got:D:

rdivaldi
01-04-2008, 02:50 AM
So your saying the day we traded Garland you have thought we have slim shot to contend because of our rotation. Come on now we had a guy in Contreras that struggled but at the end of the year he was slowly starting to look like the pitcher we had before....Danks was a 21-22 year old rookie that wasn't even suppose to make the team and he had some ups and downs, he will get better....Floyd is the only one concerns me. He seems to be the kind of guy that one day he could throw a no hitter and then the next day after an inning he's on the bench already given up 5 runs. I trust this rotation to do a good job

Yes, I still do not like the Garland move, especially since we have not replaced him with any sort of proven starter. I'm hopeful that Jose has put the divorce behind him and can focus back in on baseball. I like Danks, but asking him to make a huge jump and become a 200+ inning guy with 15-18 wins is too much IMO. I pray for Floyd to meet his potential, which automatically is not a good sign in my scouting book.

What I see is a repeat of the teams from 2001- 2004. Good hitting, average defense and a pitching staff with a glaring hole in it. On top of that we just traded two of the best pitching prospects I've seen in our system over the past ten years.

:(:

gogosox16
01-04-2008, 02:53 AM
Yes, I still do not like the Garland move, especially since we have not replaced him with any sort of proven starter. I'm hopeful that Jose has put the divorce behind him and can focus back in on baseball. I like Danks, but asking him to make a huge jump and become a 200+ inning guy with 15-18 wins is too much IMO. I pray for Floyd to meet his potential, which automatically is not a good sign in my scouting book.

What I see is a repeat of the teams from 2001- 2004. Good hitting, average defense and a pitching staff with a glaring hole in it. On top of that we just traded two of the best pitching prospects I've seen in our system over the past ten years.

:(:
Fautino is still a few years a way and he could have arm trouble in that spand. Gio was still behind Broadway for this upcoming year. They weren't going to ruch Gio unless if was absolutely necessary. So neither would of factored into this season really

rdivaldi
01-04-2008, 02:56 AM
Fautino is still a few years a way and he could have arm trouble in that spand. Gio was still behind Broadway for this upcoming year. They weren't going to ruch Gio unless if was absolutely necessary. So neither would of factored into this season really

I can't disagree with that, young pitchers are always a risk. I do not however expect Broadway to succeed at the major league level, so I was convinced that Gio was going to get a shot at the major league level this year.

I'm very concerned that this trade is going to look downright awful in 2009, especially since I'm not at all convinced that we're going to compete in 2008.

:(:

Billy Ashley
01-04-2008, 03:11 AM
Given the fact that the white sox currently have several relatively high risk/ high reward types penciled in to be significant pieces for 2008 it is really quite difficult to figure out where the figure in the AL central. In fact, given that the major league baseball season is like a war of attrition, with players getting worn down and injured all the time, its often to figure out how good a team is going be over the course of the season even when they have a roster filled with established commodities. Right now, the white sox donít appear as good as Detroit or Cleveland. However, like every other team in baseball what will determine the final win total for the Indians, Tigers and White Sox will be a cocktail of elements both with in and outside those teamsí controls. Bloop hits, injuries, fluke seasons by batters or pitchers and other luck factors often make the difference between World Series hopefuls and complete busts. Take for instance the Boston Red Sox of 07 vs 06, while they had several rather sizable upgrades between those seasons, the majority of the chore of those teams remained the same. The difference: Josh Beckettís fingers allowed him to throw curve balls, Papelbonís arm didnít fall off, no one had heart murmurs and nobody got cancer. Of their big additions, Matsuzaka, Drew and Lugo, only Matsuzaka provided much quality while the other two had abnormally awful seasons. The additions that made the big difference, an average Japanese reliever who just happened to learn a new pitch in the off season, and a rookie most people dismissed as a AAAA player.

The 2008 White Sox look to me as an 84 win team. Meaning, if they played the season 100, 000 times, Iíd expect them to average 84 wins. However, as we all know, we only play the season once, and variation due to break out seasons, luck or karma or whatever can turn an 84 win team into a 92 win team and a 100 win team into an 80 win team.

jcw218
01-04-2008, 03:29 AM
IMHO, this is not the end of the moves that will shape this roster for the season. Crede and/or Uribe will probably be dealt sometime before spring training ends. There may be a pitcher or two acquired through fa or trade, although I do not know what we have left to trade.

munchman33
01-04-2008, 03:35 AM
No way we contend with our rotation. Floyd, Danks, and Contreras are all not locks at simply being league average. That one of them is better than league average is already asking a lot of the "baseball Gods."

Our offense is still a tad below that of Cleveland and Detroit. And I'd trade rotations with either in a heartbeat. Factor in that we have only two reliable arms in the pen, and it spells third place at best.

In a bad division and a good season, we'd be an 85-87 win team. In this division, winning 72 again isn't out of the range of possibility. Cleveland is young and improving. And Detroit has gotten a whole lot better.

PKalltheway
01-04-2008, 08:13 AM
I truly believe that the Sox will be contenders in 2008. I don't think that Danks and Floyd will both break out in '08, but one of the two will have a good season. I also firmly believe that our lineup will be as formidable as ever going into '08. My only hope is that the bullpen will not be as terrible going into this season, but bullpens are hard to predict....we shall see...

Bucky F. Dent
01-04-2008, 08:36 AM
"Maybe, if the baseball gods smile upon us once again"

But then again I think that some Karma is required for any team have a successful season.

chisoxmike
01-04-2008, 10:49 AM
With our pitching staff, .500 and a third place finish will be the best they can do in my opinion.

I would have Cleveland as the favorite to win the division.

skottyj242
01-04-2008, 11:06 AM
This should have been a public poll.

TornLabrum
01-04-2008, 11:07 AM
We have three proven starting pitchers, one of whom stank up the joint last year and another who couldn't get past the fourth inning year before last. We're not going anywhere, even with Swisher. The Sox had lights out pitching in 2005. They don't now.

chisox77
01-04-2008, 11:16 AM
I feel they will contend, and there will be a deal or two made before the seasons starts.


:cool:

Fenway
01-04-2008, 11:21 AM
I think the key is a good start like what happened in 05....and still be close by Memorial Day.....

I honestly think if the Sox can fix their setup problems in the bullpen they will be back in the mid 80 win range and then with a little luck nudge it higher.

Detroit looks scary as hell but they did last year as well

Cleveland may not recover from blowing the pennant. How Joel Skinner kept his job baffles me.

chisoxmike
01-04-2008, 11:24 AM
I like they'll win more games than last year. But not much more. Maybe in the high-70 range. But nothing spectacular. :(:

I can not believe how many people think this is a contending team.

balke
01-04-2008, 11:50 AM
I like they'll win more games than last year. But not much more. Maybe in the high-70 range. But nothing spectacular. :(:

I can not believe how many people think this is a contending team.

I think they contend in the division, but not necessarily with the Angels and Red Sox, and possibly Yanks.

Detroit doesn't scare me too much. Bonderman seemed like he was really banged up towards the end of last season, and Rogers has gotta have his age catch up with him this season. Its just not possible to pitch that old. Willis is going to have to adjust to the AL.

They have some of their own problems, and I don't see why the Sox can't hang with them and Cleveland.

Fenway
01-04-2008, 11:53 AM
I think they contend in the division, but not necessarily with the Angels and Red Sox, and possibly Yanks.

.

But you don't have to worry about those teams for 162 games.....in the playoffs anything can happen in a short series. ( see 2006 St Louis )

sox1970
01-04-2008, 11:55 AM
All of the veterans have had good years in the past. They'll need to stay healthy and produce in the clutch a lot more than they did in 2007. Cabrera and Swisher should help in that area.

Richar and Quentin are very talented and have to prove they are major league players. Fields has to make the everyday plays at third. I think Cabrera will also help Fields. His offense--I'm not worried about. He can play.

The rotation is the biggest question. Vazquez and Buehrle have to carry the staff. 40-45 quality starts from those two are a must, or they won't make the playoffs.

Contreras has to bounce back, and at least be a slightly better than .500 pitcher. The last year and a half have been awful. If he stinks in April and May, I see Jack Egbert or Lance Broadway replacing him quickly. They won't stick with him too long if he's stinking up the joint.

Floyd and Danks: I'm in the minority here, but I like Floyd. Really impressed with his September. Looked a lot more confident, and he's ready to handle the major league innings. He's going to be good.

Danks has to throw more strikes and get deeper into games. His second half sucked, but we've seen flashes of what can be a very good pitcher. Very possible he wins 13-14 games this year. Same for Floyd.

The bullpen of Wassermann, Logan, Thornton, MacDougal, Linebrink, and Jenks: Well, there's a lot of talent there too, but MacDougal has to be healthy and pitch like he has in the past. Same with Thornton. If MacD and Thornton can get it to Linebrink and Jenks, this bullpen can be very good. The crap they spewed out there last year will be gone--Masset, Aardsma, Sisco--they won't be back.

There are a lot of if's and question marks with this team, no denying that. But there is a lot of potential also. If they can just play at their potential this year, I think they'll crack .500 without any trouble.

For the Sox to make the playoffs, it'll take some surprises like Contreras winning 17-18 games, an airtight bullpen that doesn't blow late leads, one of the young pitchers winning 15 games, and a couple position players having career years. It's possible, but for all of them to happen isn't likely.

palehozenychicty
01-04-2008, 11:58 AM
They need two arms in the entire rotation to be a real contender. They will probably add one more arm before the start of the season and see who will step up from the roster.

Detroit fell below expectations, and switching leagues for the two new guys breeds adjustment. We own them. Cleveland will be good, but they're very streaky. I'm not convinced they're mentally tough enough to win a WS.

PKalltheway
01-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Cleveland may not recover from blowing the pennant. How Joel Skinner kept his job baffles me.
What baffles me even more is that they had a closer (Borowski), that had a 5.07 ERA, and still managed to make it to the ALCS. Yikes.:o:

slavko
01-04-2008, 12:13 PM
IMHO, this is not the end of the moves that will shape this roster for the season. Crede and/or Uribe will probably be dealt sometime before spring training ends. There may be a pitcher or two acquired through fa or trade, although I do not know what we have left to trade.

Picking up one OK guy has not fixed our awful bullpen. Hoping the remaining guys have career years won't fix our awful bullpen. Crede and Uribe are of no use to us and could be used to replenish the young talent we lost in trades. We are worse off re:starting pitching than '07. We should score more runs because there should be more guys on base for the big boppers.

I can't see much better than .500; we're in a tough division.

Billy Ashley
01-04-2008, 12:29 PM
What baffles me even more is that they had a closer (Borowski), that had a 5.07 ERA, and still managed to make it to the ALCS. Yikes.:o:


For most part, closers are somewhat overrated. Sure there are guys who make a difference, guys like Rivera, Hoffman, Papelbon and Puttz over the past several seasons, Jenks last season, Wettland back in the day, but unless you've got an elite closer, the position doesn't matter all that much, esp. if the rest of the bullben is solid. Problem with those elite guys is they get paid more than their worth once they're no longer cost controlled anyway,

areilly
01-04-2008, 01:54 PM
Crede and Uribe are of no use to us and could be used to replenish the young talent we lost in trades.

Why does everyone around here insist that Crede and Uribe are going to bring so much back in return? Crede is a giant question mark at best and Uribe could be a throw-in at best if the Sox ate most of his salary. No one - NO ONE - is sending back comparable young talent back for either of those guys unless a PK/Javy-type player is the real centerpiece of the trade.

Paulwny
01-04-2008, 01:56 PM
What baffles me even more is that they had a closer (Borowski), that had a 5.07 ERA, and still managed to make it to the ALCS. Yikes.:o:


Closer comes in with a 3 run lead, gives up 1 or 2 runs, earns a save but, has a high era.

Paulwny
01-04-2008, 02:00 PM
Why does everyone around here insist that Crede and Uribe are going to bring so much back in return? Crede is a giant question mark at best and Uribe could be a throw-in at best if the Sox ate most of his salary. No one - NO ONE - is sending back comparable young talent back for either of those guys unless a PK/Javy-type player is the real centerpiece of the trade.

The only way the sox will get any decent minor league talent for Uribe is if, at the break, a condtender has a starting ss go down and is forced to make a move.

SoxNation05
01-04-2008, 02:08 PM
I am guessing the starters go something like this.

Buerhle 16-9 3.65 era
Vazques 17-10 3.80 215ks
Contreras 13-12 4.30
Danks 14-8 4.12
Floyd 8-14 5.15

Jenks 2.24era 41svs
Linebrink 3.80 era

HawkDJ
01-04-2008, 02:16 PM
A lot of things will have to go right for us to contend with Detroit. Namely Contreras, Danks and Floyd.