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Tragg
01-03-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm not a believer in the invincibility of Cleveland and certainly not Detroit.

CF Swisher
SS Cabrera
RF Dye
DH Thome
1B Konerko
LF Quentin
C AJ
3B Crede
2B Richar
Dye's good at getting on base with a good hitter behind him.

Bench: Fields (I hope they keep him and Crede; work him at first), Ramirez, Owens, Anderson, Hall.

Starters - we know
Pen - Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton, Broadway,?? middle reliever of your choice, I guess Logan (we should trade him to Beane - he loves situational pitchers), Wasserman

If Contreras, Danks and Floyd pitch well, we're in the race.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 08:39 PM
I'm not a believer in the invincibility of Cleveland and certainly not Detroit.

CF Swisher
SS Cabrera
RF Dye
DH Thome
1B Konerko
LF Quentin
C AJ
3B Crede
2B Richar
Dye's good at getting on base with a good hitter behind him.

Bench: Fields (I hope they keep him and Crede; work him at first), Ramirez, Owens, Anderson, Hall.

Starters - we know
Pen - Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton, Broadway,?? middle reliever of your choice, I guess Logan (we should trade him to Beane - he loves situational pitchers), Wasserman

If Contreras, Danks and Floyd pitch well, we're in the race.

Crede-HE GONE!!!!! Dont even think he will be in the opening day lineup

Jjav829
01-03-2008, 08:41 PM
It's too early to tell. We still have to see if KW trades Crede or makes any other moves. Even if Crede is traded, and I'll assume so for the sake of this post, it will still depend on Spring Training performances in all likelihood.

If Owens plays well, he will most likely receive a shot as the everyday leadoff hitter. If not, then Swisher likely leads off. It's really going to depend on how Owens and Quentin play, and if either of them can force Ozzie into playing them everyday.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 08:43 PM
It's too early to tell. We still have to see if KW trades Crede or makes any other moves. Even if Crede is traded, and I'll assume so for the sake of this post, it will still depend on Spring Training performances in all likelihood.

If Owens plays well, he will most likely receive a shot as the everyday leadoff hitter. If not, then Swisher likely leads off. It's really going to depend on how Owens and Quentin play, and if either of them can force Ozzie into playing them everyday.

Quentin will be the 4th outfielder

sox1970
01-03-2008, 08:49 PM
Quentin will be the 4th outfielder

If Quentin is healthy, he'll start 150 games. They didn't get him to be the 4th outfielder.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 08:56 PM
If Quentin is healthy, he'll start 150 games. They didn't get him to be the 4th outfielder.

Leadoff will have to come from 2nd base if he plays left-still don't see him as a big player this year-he will compete for RF when Dye moves to DH

Frater Perdurabo
01-03-2008, 08:56 PM
Not bad. But I'd do my typical, cliché deal of Paulie for Figgins and Shields.

Now your lineup is:

S Figgins CF
R Cabrera SS
L Thome DH (Fields v. LHP)
R Dye LF
S Swisher 1B
R Crede/Fields 3B (Crede always v. LHP and some v. RHP)
L AJ C (Hall v. LHP)
R Quentin RF
L Richar 2B

The only question marks are at 8-9, but both Quentin and Richar have decent speed, take walks, have the ability to hit for extra bases, and don't strike out a lot. In short they can turn over the lineup. That lineup is good enough to add 5 more wins over what the Sox had last year.

Then, you've got the league's best 7-8-9 inning combo of Linebrink, Shields and Jenks to shut down opposing teams. And now MacDougal and Thornton are getting used only in the 5th & 6th innings and therefore will be more effective since relievers are used in those innings far less frequently. Plus, Logan can be a true LOOGY, a role in which he has excelled. Just by eliminating so many blown late inning leads from 2007, the Sox are looking at about 13 more victories by improving the pen.

Moreover, now KW has the resources to go out and buy a starter to replace Garland if either Danks or Floyd cannot replace Garland's wins.

In my admittedly unscientific math, that's 18 more wins and therefore a 90 win season and a shot at the postseason.

:supernana:

Save McCuddy's
01-03-2008, 08:57 PM
If Crede's healthy, I'd love to have him here playing for a big contract. I doubt he'll waste many at bats with 4 years $35 mill hanging in the balance.

Thome and Crede will be fragile and Dye can certainly use rest.

(not a batting order)

Pos Starter Sub 1 Sub 2

CF Swisher Owens Quentin
LF Fields Quentin Owens
RF Dye Quentin Swisher
1B Konerko Swisher Thome
2B Richar Pablo Ramirez
SS Cabrera Ramirez
3B Crede Fields Pablo
C AJ Toby
DH Thome Dye Paulie

Ozzie won't know what to do with himself when Sunday rolls around.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 09:02 PM
If Crede's healthy, I'd love to have him here playing for a big contract. I doubt he'll waste many at bats with 4 years $35 mill hanging in the balance.

Thome and Crede will be fragile and Dye can certainly use rest.

(not a batting order)

Pos Starter Sub 1 Sub 2

CF Swisher Owens Quentin
LF Fields Quentin Owens
RF Dye Quentin Swisher
1B Konerko Swisher Thome
2B Richar Pablo Ramirez
SS Cabrera Ramirez
3B Crede Fields Pablo
C AJ Toby
DH Thome Dye Paulie

Ozzie won't know what to do with himself when Sunday rolls around.

Healthy Crede+boras= 5 yr. 60 million Thanks for the memories Joe!!!

raven1
01-03-2008, 09:16 PM
I'm not a believer in the invincibility of Cleveland and certainly not Detroit.

CF Swisher
SS Cabrera
RF Dye
DH Thome
1B Konerko
LF Quentin
C AJ
3B Crede
2B Richar
Dye's good at getting on base with a good hitter behind him.

Bench: Fields (I hope they keep him and Crede; work him at first), Ramirez, Owens, Anderson, Hall.

Starters - we know
Pen - Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton, Broadway,?? middle reliever of your choice, I guess Logan (we should trade him to Beane - he loves situational pitchers), Wasserman

If Contreras, Danks and Floyd pitch well, we're in the race.
Although he has a good OBP, Swisher isn't a leadoff hitter candidate - too slow, too low batting average. He is a better fit for the second slot with Cabrera leading off, or if Owens has an impressive spring he would leadoff, Cabrera could bat second (his best slot), and Swisher could bat sixth.

I expect that it will be Fields instead of Crede at third - if Crede is healthy he will be traded to fill our remaining holes at leadoff or starting pitching rotation.

Quentin will eventually start in left as you say, but by all accounts he will not be healthy for the start of the season so Owens & Anderson will compete for the open Outfield slots.

I expect that Uribe will still be with the Sox as a utility infielder & backup plan in case Richar doesn't work out.

Broadway will be in AAA this year. He has options left & I don't think Masset does so the Sox will keep him - he may also be next in line for the 5th starter job if any of the others fail. Unless the Sox can get something for McDougal in a trade he will also likely be back.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 09:21 PM
Why do all of believe Quentin will be good? What is he above average at doing? He will not be an everyday player here or anywhere else!!! He is a serviceable 4th OF

Brian26
01-03-2008, 09:24 PM
This is my Playstation lineup (where defense doesn't matter, but homeruns do):

SS Cabrera
CF Swisher
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
LF Fields
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
2B Uribe

jabrch
01-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Although he has a good OBP, Swisher isn't a leadoff hitter candidate - too slow, too low batting average. He is a better fit for the second slot with Cabrera leading off,

I think you have them backwards.

First off, Swisher isn't slow. He doesnt have many SBs - but that's because Oakland doesn't run. Not because he is slow. His batting average is actually well hidden as a leadoff hitter - where a walk is as good as a hit. He's a bad fit for the second spot because he isn't a guy who you want giving himself up. He's also a guy who will take until he gets "HIS" pitch. You don't get that opportunity in the #2 hole where you are protecting someone fast who is running a bit - at least on the Sox...Cabrerra is a perfect #2 hitter - you can ask him to go the other way, go behind a runner, or sac. He his pitches regardless of where they are when needed.

raven1
01-03-2008, 09:45 PM
I think you have them backwards.

First off, Swisher isn't slow. He doesnt have many SBs - but that's because Oakland doesn't run. Not because he is slow. His batting average is actually well hidden as a leadoff hitter - where a walk is as good as a hit. He's a bad fit for the second spot because he isn't a guy who you want giving himself up. He's also a guy who will take until he gets "HIS" pitch. You don't get that opportunity in the #2 hole where you are protecting someone fast who is running a bit - at least on the Sox...Cabrerra is a perfect #2 hitter - you can ask him to go the other way, go behind a runner, or sac. He his pitches regardless of where they are when needed.
I would still prefer to see the Sox get an established leadoff hitter so Cabrera could hit #2 and Swisher could be slotted somewhere 3-6. Maybe that will happen, or maybe Jerry Owens will step up.

jabrch
01-03-2008, 09:47 PM
I would still prefer to see the Sox get an established leadoff hitter so Cabrera could hit #2 and Swisher could be slotted somewhere 3-6. Maybe that will happen, or maybe Jerry Owens will step up.

I don't disagree with that. I sure hope JO becomes a legit leadoff hitting CF. I don't know what we'd do with Carlos Q in that case - but I'd be able to live with that problem.

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 10:00 PM
I think you have them backwards.

First off, Swisher isn't slow. He doesnt have many SBs - but that's because Oakland doesn't run. Not because he is slow. His batting average is actually well hidden as a leadoff hitter - where a walk is as good as a hit. He's a bad fit for the second spot because he isn't a guy who you want giving himself up. He's also a guy who will take until he gets "HIS" pitch. You don't get that opportunity in the #2 hole where you are protecting someone fast who is running a bit - at least on the Sox...Cabrerra is a perfect #2 hitter - you can ask him to go the other way, go behind a runner, or sac. He his pitches regardless of where they are when needed.
Maybe Swisher has good speed in the field, but regardless of whether Oakland runs a lot or not, if he was a good base stealer he would have more than FOUR career total...Swisher is not your leadoff guy. Right now I think Cabrera is...as for Crede...in ST maybe you can trade him for more pitching...I don't think we're going to see Uribe on this team much longer...we'll see. Owens is going to be the guy coming in off the bench to pinch run, and ya know what? I like that idea.

SoxNation05
01-03-2008, 10:03 PM
I don't disagree with that. I sure hope JO becomes a legit leadoff hitting CF. I don't know what we'd do with Carlos Q in that case - but I'd be able to live with that problem.

The thing is we traded arguably our best position player prospect for Quenton. Owens has the ceiling of at best Coco CRisp,while CQ's stats could be avg:300, obp: 375, hr: 30, and RBI's:100.

raven1
01-03-2008, 10:08 PM
The thing is we traded arguably our best position player prospect for Quenton. Owens has the ceiling of at best Coco CRisp,while CQ's stats could be avg:300, obp: 375, hr: 30, and RBI's:100.
Barring another outfield trade, I think we'll see both start in 2008. Owens is more likely to be healthy & ready to go out of Spring Training than Quentin, but given the high hopes the Sox have for him Quentin will get his chance sometime this year. They also fill different offensive roles - Owens leadoff & Quentin will hopefully turn out to be a mid-to-lower in the order RBI man.

jabrch
01-03-2008, 10:13 PM
The thing is we traded arguably our best position player prospect for Quenton.

While that's true - he was still a good bit away from making the majors - and is a 1B. I'm not worried about losing Chris Carter. We can draft a 1B in an early round a few times and build one by the time PK is gone.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Barring another outfield trade, I think we'll see both start in 2008. Owens is more likely to be healthy & ready to go out of Spring Training than Quentin, but given the high hopes the Sox have for him Quentin will get his chance sometime this year. They also fill different offensive roles - Owens leadoff & Quentin will hopefully turn out to be a mid-to-lower in the order RBI man.

I ask again What is Quentin going to do? hit for power? No Hit for average? No Steal bases? No -4th OF

raven1
01-03-2008, 10:22 PM
I ask again What is Quentin going to do? hit for power? No Hit for average? No Steal bases? No -4th OF
The Sox made that deal based on the belief that his recent stats were an aberration due to injury, and that if he can stay healthy he will become a Carlos Lee-type player. However, until he can show that he can live up to his potential he will probably start out as a 4th outfielder as you say.

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 10:23 PM
The Sox made that deal based on the belief that his recent stats were an aberration due to injury, and that if he can stay healthy he will become a Carlos Lee-type player. However, until he can show that he can live up to his potential he will probably start out as a 4th outfielder as you say.
I wouldn't count on that...he probably should be, but I think Kenny is thinking that he is going to be our starting LFer for 2008 and the considerable future.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 10:26 PM
The Sox made that deal based on the belief that his recent stats were an aberration due to injury, and that if he can stay healthy he will become a Carlos Lee-type player. However, until he can show that he can live up to his potential he will probably start out as a 4th outfielder as you say.

look at hi career minor league stats-he will never hit for power
(even with Walter-i mean walker working with him)

sox1970
01-03-2008, 10:30 PM
look at hi career minor league stats-he will never hit for power
(even with Walter-i mean walker working with him)

If Quentin gets 500 ABs this year, I guarantee 25+ homers and 80 knocked in.

raven1
01-03-2008, 10:36 PM
I wouldn't count on that...he probably should be, but I think Kenny is thinking that he is going to be our starting LFer for 2008 and the considerable future.
Now that there is only 1 open starting outfield slot, I expect that the Sox will have a competition this spring with Owens, Anderson, and Quentin (if healthy). The runner up will be the 4th outfielder, unless Ozuna and/or Ramirez will get the roster spot instead. This of course assumes that there isn't another deal to land a veteran leadoff hitter.

If Quentin isn't ready in 2008, he will get his shot in 2009. If he fails, the Sox have other options.

Noneck
01-03-2008, 10:37 PM
Not bad. But I'd do my typical, cliché deal of Paulie for Figgins and Shields.

Now your lineup is:

S Figgins CF
R Cabrera SS
L Thome DH (Fields v. LHP)
R Dye LF
S Swisher 1B
R Crede/Fields 3B (Crede always v. LHP and some v. RHP)
L AJ C (Hall v. LHP)
R Quentin RF
L Richar 2B



I like the lineup but I LOVE Thome being platooned. This way he may not get his 550 PA and he wouldn't be locked in at 13m for '09. This a sweet way to save 10m and to move on to better things at DH after '08.

Correction, Well I guess the savings would be 13m-3m (buyout)-5.5 (paid by PHI)=4.5M. I don't know if he is even worth 4.5m but at least this way the Sox can see what he does and have an out.

HarryChappas
01-03-2008, 10:37 PM
If Quentin gets 500 ABs this year, I guarantee 25+ homers and 80 knocked in.

Easy on the Kool aid.....:?:

sox1970
01-03-2008, 10:54 PM
Easy on the Kool aid.....:?:

I'll remember this thread in September.

Sockinchisox
01-03-2008, 11:01 PM
Easy on the Kool aid.....:?:

Quentin was and is still projected as a long term regular RF who will hit 20-25 HR and drive in a good amount of runs.

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 11:18 PM
It's too early to tell.

^

This is pointless.

ChiSox65
01-03-2008, 11:24 PM
LF Owens/ Quentin
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
CF Swisher
RF Dye
C A. J.
3B Fields
2B Richar / Quentin


Crede is gone for pitching help in Spring Training if he is healthy.

:gulp:

nccwsfan
01-04-2008, 08:33 AM
LF Owens
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
CF Swisher
C Pierzynski
3B Crede/Fields
2B Richar

775-800 runs? :dunno:

Tragg
01-04-2008, 09:11 AM
I would certainly hope one of the effects of vanquishing the top talent in our farm system and making these moves is to get an upgrade at what was our huge offensive (and defensive) problem last year: center field and leadoff.

If Quinten can't crack this lineup, that would be extremely disappointing.

Dr_Comiskey90
01-05-2008, 03:02 AM
CF: Owens
SS: O-Cab
DH: Thome
1B: Konerko
RF: Dye
3B: Fields
CF: Swisher
C: Pierzynski
2B: Richar

santo=dorf
01-05-2008, 07:03 AM
I like the lineup but I LOVE Thome being platooned. This way he may not get his 550 PA and he wouldn't be locked in at 13m for '09. This a sweet way to save 10m and to move on to better things at DH after '08.

Correction, Well I guess the savings would be 13m-3m (buyout)-5.5 (paid by PHI)=4.5M. I don't know if he is even worth 4.5m but at least this way the Sox can see what he does and have an out.
You don't think it's worth $4.5 million to have a guy absolutely destroy RHP, which compose of 2/3 of his total atbats? :?::o:

Last year he had a .455 OBP and 1.123 OPS against RHP. The year before he LEAD THE ENTIRE MLB against RHP with a line of .321/.454/.749

kaufsox
01-05-2008, 09:07 AM
^

This is pointless.

what else is there to do all winter? :D:

JB98
01-05-2008, 01:38 PM
As of now:

Swisher CF
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Pierzynski C
Crede 3B
Quinton LF
Richar 2B

I don't care if Swisher doesn't steal bases. He's got adequate speed, and he's on base 38 percent of the time. I want him ahead of Thome in the lineup. I got tired of watching Jim come up in the first inning with two outs and nobody on last season.

JB98
01-05-2008, 01:41 PM
^

This is pointless.

I don't think it's anymore pointless today than it will be on March 31 or August 15. Ozzie makes out the ****ing lineup, and none of us have any say in what he does. But we can still argue about it here and act like we know something. :cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-05-2008, 01:43 PM
.... But we can still argue about it here and act like we know something. :cool:

And isn't this the whole point?

:redface:

cards press box
01-05-2008, 01:55 PM
The Sox made that deal based on the belief that his recent stats were an aberration due to injury, and that if he can stay healthy he will become a Carlos Lee-type player. However, until he can show that he can live up to his potential he will probably start out as a 4th outfielder as you say.

Quentin is a better defensive outfielder than C. Lee. To me, Quentin's upside is more along the lines of a Maggs Ordonez. If he is healthy, Quentin projects to a .290 BA 25 HR 90 RBI kind of guy. In a couple of years, Quentin may take over right field and stay there for a long time. For now, Quentin may play LF, occasionally DH and occasionally spell Dye in RF.

cards press box
01-05-2008, 01:59 PM
Not bad. But I'd do my typical, cliché deal of Paulie for Figgins and Shields.

Now your lineup is:

S Figgins CF
R Cabrera SS
L Thome DH (Fields v. LHP)
R Dye LF
S Swisher 1B
R Crede/Fields 3B (Crede always v. LHP and some v. RHP)
L AJ C (Hall v. LHP)
R Quentin RF
L Richar 2B

The only question marks are at 8-9, but both Quentin and Richar have decent speed, take walks, have the ability to hit for extra bases, and don't strike out a lot. In short they can turn over the lineup. That lineup is good enough to add 5 more wins over what the Sox had last year.

Then, you've got the league's best 7-8-9 inning combo of Linebrink, Shields and Jenks to shut down opposing teams. And now MacDougal and Thornton are getting used only in the 5th & 6th innings and therefore will be more effective since relievers are used in those innings far less frequently. Plus, Logan can be a true LOOGY, a role in which he has excelled. Just by eliminating so many blown late inning leads from 2007, the Sox are looking at about 13 more victories by improving the pen.

Moreover, now KW has the resources to go out and buy a starter to replace Garland if either Danks or Floyd cannot replace Garland's wins.

In my admittedly unscientific math, that's 18 more wins and therefore a 90 win season and a shot at the postseason.

:supernana:

Richar will probably have to compete with Alexei Ramirez for 2B. At the end of the day, the Sox might platoon them (Richat bats lefty and Ramirez bats righty, I think) or, at a minimum, give both players substantial playing time.

gogosox16
01-05-2008, 02:04 PM
Richar will probably have to compete with Alexei Ramirez for 2B. At the end of the day, the Sox might platoon them (Richat bats lefty and Ramirez bats righty, I think) or, at a minimum, give both players substantial playing time.
Alexei will not be on the major league team unless if he wins a starting job and the only possibility is at 2nd at that would mean Richar would start in AAA...They won't stunt either one's growth by having them sit on the bench and play 2 times a week.

TomBradley72
01-05-2008, 02:29 PM
Against RH:

C- AJ
1B-Konerko
2B-Richar
SS-Cabrera
3B-Fields/Crede
DH-Thome
LF-Swisher
CF-Owens
RF-Dye

Against LH:

C-AJ (sometimes Hall)
1B-Konerko
2B-Uribe
SS-Cabrera
3B-Fields/Crede
DH-Swisher
LF-Quentin
CF-Anderson
RF-Dye

gogosox16
01-05-2008, 02:47 PM
Against RH:

C- AJ
1B-Konerko
2B-Richar
SS-Cabrera
3B-Fields/Crede
DH-Thome
LF-Swisher
CF-Owens
RF-Dye

Against LH:

C-AJ (sometimes Hall)
1B-Konerko
2B-Uribe
SS-Cabrera
3B-Fields/Crede
DH-Swisher
LF-Quentin
CF-Anderson
RF-Dye
Lol at first I thought you were having AJ leadoff, I was thinking what a moron then I realized it was by position

gogosox16
01-05-2008, 02:58 PM
My lineup for starting day on March 31 @ Cleveland with C.C. Sabathia pitching is

CF- Nick Swisher
SS- Orlando Cabrera
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
RF- Jermaine Dye
3B- Josh Fields
C- A.J. Pierzynski
LF-Carlos Quentin (only Jerry Owens is Quentin is still recovering from surgery)
2B- Danny Richar

Bench
Jerry Owens
Pablo Ozuna
Toby Hall
Juan Uribe

Starting Pitchers
Mark Buehrle
Javier Vazquez
Jose Contreras
John Danks
Gavin Floyd

Bullpen
Bobby Jenks
Scott Linebrink
Matt Thorton
Mike Macdougal
Ehren Wasserman
Boone Logan
Long Relief guy- possibly Adam Russell, Charlie Haeger, or Jack Egbert

Noneck
01-05-2008, 05:14 PM
You don't think it's worth $4.5 million to have a guy absolutely destroy RHP, which compose of 2/3 of his total atbats? :?::o:

Last year he had a .455 OBP and 1.123 OPS against RHP. The year before he LEAD THE ENTIRE MLB against RHP with a line of .321/.454/.749


As I said in my previous post "I don't know if he is even worth 4.5m but at least this way the Sox can see what he does and have an out."

All your posted stats are not from '08, This give the Sox a way out after '08 if he goes south this year. Ok?

Hitmen77
01-07-2008, 12:05 AM
My lineup for starting day on March 31 @ Cleveland with C.C. Sabathia pitching is

CF- Nick Swisher
SS- Orlando Cabrera
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
RF- Jermaine Dye
3B- Josh Fields
C- A.J. Pierzynski
LF-Carlos Quentin (only Jerry Owens is Quentin is still recovering from surgery)
2B- Danny Richar

Bench
Jerry Owens, Pablo Ozuna, Toby Hall, Juan Uribe

Starting Pitchers
Mark Buehrle
Javier Vazquez
Jose Contreras
John Danks
Gavin Floyd

Bullpen
Bobby Jenks, Scott Linebrink, Matt Thorton, Mike Macdougal, Ehren Wasserman, Boone Logan, Long Relief guy (possibly Adam Russell, Charlie Haeger, or Jack Egbert)

That starting 9 certainly has the potential to be a very solid offensive lineup. But there are certainly question marks:
CF- Nick Swisher: Proven success in majors. Is he still on the upswing and will get even better?
SS- Orlando Cabrera: Pretty solid, not a question mark except whether the Sox can/will extend him beyond '08.
DH- Jim Thome: Needs to avoid prolonged injuries
1B- Paul Konerko: Hope he avoids another dreadful 1st half
RF- Jermaine Dye: Hope he avoids another dreadful 1st half
3B- Josh Fields: Looked good, but still needs improvement (less Ks for example)
C- A.J. Pierzynski: No big question marks.
LF-Carlos Quentin: If he can repeat his minor league success for us, he'll give us a huge boost.
2B- Danny Richar: A lot of potential upside. Will he put it together in '08?

I hope that doesn't sound too negative. Yes, there are a lot of question marks - but there's a lot of potential for success there too. We'll see starting 3/31.

Likewise Contreras, Danks, and Floyd are all question marks. Can they all put together solid seasons? Can Vazquez have a 2nd successful season in a row? Again, alot of question marks - but I'm looking forward to March 31 to see how it all plays out. :wink:

soxinem1
01-07-2008, 06:58 PM
Cabrera was acquired to bat second, that is where he excels at; he will NOT be batting lead-off regularly. If he bats lead off, it will be a long year.

Swisher is a middle of the order hitter, a run producer, not a hit and run or lead off guy. If he bats anywhere other than 4-7, its going to be a long year (unless the line up becomes so stacked that he is like Charles Johnson in Y2K, a 8-9 hitter by default).

Face the facts, Jerry Owens will lead off if another player is not picked up to do so. Who else even resembles a candidate on this squad, currently?

nccwsfan
01-07-2008, 09:00 PM
Cabrera was acquired to bat second, that is where he excels at; he will NOT be batting lead-off regularly. If he bats lead off, it will be a long year.

Swisher is a middle of the order hitter, a run producer, not a hit and run or lead off guy. If he bats anywhere other than 4-7, its going to be a long year (unless the line up becomes so stacked that he is like Charles Johnson in Y2K, a 8-9 hitter by default).

Face the facts, Jerry Owens will lead off if another player is not picked up to do so. Who else even resembles a candidate on this squad, currently?

No one- Owens should be and likely will be our leadoff hitter.

The Thomenator
01-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Cabrera was acquired to bat second, that is where he excels at; he will NOT be batting lead-off regularly. If he bats lead off, it will be a long year.

Swisher is a middle of the order hitter, a run producer, not a hit and run or lead off guy. If he bats anywhere other than 4-7, its going to be a long year (unless the line up becomes so stacked that he is like Charles Johnson in Y2K, a 8-9 hitter by default).

Face the facts, Jerry Owens will lead off if another player is not picked up to do so. Who else even resembles a candidate on this squad, currently?

What would you rather have leadoff: Rickey Henderson's speed + Jerry Owens' OBP or a guy with a much better OBP (Swisher) who does not strike much fear into the opposing battery?
I am by no means saying that Swisher needs to lead off, but what I am saying is many on this site overrate speed out of the leadoff spot. What is the use of a guy's speed if he's all in the dugout?

soxinem1
01-07-2008, 09:33 PM
What would you rather have leadoff: Rickey Henderson's speed + Jerry Owens' OBP or a guy with a much better OBP (Swisher) who does not strike much fear into the opposing battery?
I am by no means saying that Swisher needs to lead off, but what I am saying is many on this site overrate speed out of the leadoff spot. What is the use of a guy's speed if he's all in the dugout?

I say it's time to start developing players and use the tools they have to benefit your team.

Many posters here want Juan Pierre, but he is basically a singles machine who steals a lot and gets tossed out a lot. He also costs $9 million a year.

We had Podsednik bat lead off for 2/3 of a season in 2005, not walk a lot, but get on and run. He had 25 RBI's, one of the lowest totals of ANY lead-off man in MLB that year, and he was without a doubt the least producing LF of 2005. But it was enough to get the job done, why can't they just let Owens do the same?

Both Pierre and Pods are barely (if not slightly below) adequate defensively.

If Ozzie wants a prototypical lead off hitter, and there is not one available, then he should develop one. He has two options with Richar and Owens, at least give it a try. Owens can be at least as good as Pods, and Richar has the chance to develop like Curtis Granderson for DET.

Let them play! Let them play!! Let them play!!

The Thomenator
01-07-2008, 10:00 PM
I say it's time to start developing players and use the tools they have to benefit your team.

Many posters here want Juan Pierre, but he is basically a singles machine who steals a lot and gets tossed out a lot. He also costs $9 million a year.

We had Podsednik bat lead off for 2/3 of a season in 2005, not walk a lot, but get on and run. He had 25 RBI's, one of the lowest totals of ANY lead-off man in MLB that year, and he was without a doubt the least producing LF of 2005. But it was enough to get the job done, why can't they just let Owens do the same?

Both Pierre and Pods are barely (if not slightly below) adequate defensively.

If Ozzie wants a prototypical lead off hitter, and there is not one available, then he should develop one. He has two options with Richar and Owens, at least give it a try. Owens can be at least as good as Pods, and Richar has the chance to develop like Curtis Granderson for DET.

Let them play! Let them play!! Let them play!!

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the Pierre stuff. He's an older, more expensive Jerry Owens.

In my ideal mind, we trade Konerko and Crede for prospects (maybe from the Angels.....whomever, get the best offer) and use those prospects plus Danks, and maybe some others to get Bedard and Roberts. Bat Owens 9 and leadoff with Roberts. That 9-1 turnover would scare the crap out of me if I were an opponent.

1. Roberts, 2. Cabrera, 3. Thome, 4. Swisher/Dye, 5. Dye/Swisher, 6. Fields, 7. Pierzynski, 8. Quentin, 9. Owens.

Yet again....in an ideal world. Who knows, Owens very well could blossom in a full year up here.

santo=dorf
01-08-2008, 09:42 AM
As I said in my previous post "I don't know if he is even worth 4.5m but at least this way the Sox can see what he does and have an out."

All your posted stats are not from '08, This give the Sox a way out after '08 if he goes south this year. Ok?
So you don't have any idea what kind of production he will have based on the previous two seasons with the Sox? I also recall reading that there is a handshake agreement for the Phills to pick up some of the tab if the White Sox decide to pick uphis 2009 option. If that's true, KW sure was slick with that move. :cool:

balke
01-08-2008, 10:47 AM
Lineup-wise I'm happier everyday.

Swisher
Cabrera
Thome
PK
Dye
Fields/Crede
AJ
Quentin
Uribe/Richar

It kinda reminds me of 2004

Uribe/Harris
Rowand
Maggs
Thomas
Konerko
Clee
Valentin
Crede
Olivo

We just need no injuries, and no Adkins.

Noneck
01-08-2008, 03:06 PM
So you don't have any idea what kind of production he will have based on the previous two seasons with the Sox? I also recall reading that there is a handshake agreement for the Phills to pick up some of the tab if the White Sox decide to pick uphis 2009 option. If that's true, KW sure was slick with that move. :cool:

The previous two seasons is exactly that, previous. I don't understand why anyone would not like an out to his contract if he goes south next year. btw: The Phils pickup is calculated in a previous post of mine.