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Gammons Peter
01-03-2008, 01:02 PM
wscr reporting

twinsuck1
01-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Sox trade for Nick Swisher! per WSCR The Score. Gio Gonzalez and someone else more details later I'm sure...

Gammons Peter
01-03-2008, 01:03 PM
for Gio and Sweeney?

BUMMER
01-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Looks like Sweeney gone also

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:06 PM
Why???

Rocky Soprano
01-03-2008, 01:06 PM
For a career .250 hitter?

I don't think I like this move.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:07 PM
This puzzles me.......of course this is only at first glance.

markopat
01-03-2008, 01:07 PM
If this is true...could be cool...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/swishni01.shtml

Dan the Man
01-03-2008, 01:07 PM
Why???
Sox fan FOBBs everywhere rejoice.

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 01:07 PM
YIKES!!! I like Gio and sweeney.... I hope it's not those two

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:07 PM
For a career .260 hitter?

I don't think I like this move.

He has a good OBP, takes a lot of pitches, and walks a lot. Plus the average has increased each of his three years in MLB. Interesting move . . .

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
Don't we already have a logjam at the positions he plays?

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
He has a good OBP, takes a lot of pitches, and walks a lot. Plus the average has increased each of his three years in MLB. Interesting move . . .
For two of our top prospects?!?!?!!? I don't think I like it...

skottyj242
01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
FOBB unite.

FedEx227
01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
I hate using the tag...

but where's he gonna play?

He doesn't exactly light the field up. He played CF for a game last year at the Cell but it wasn't all that pretty. Left? No problem there, but then we def. need takers for Crede.

KRS1
01-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Well Swish is a big OPS guy, and definitely has some pop. On the other hand, I was one person here who was still high on Sweeney, and absolutely love Gio. I really don't know what to say. Oh yeah, Fautino is also apparently included, and if so, I hate this trade.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:10 PM
For two of our top prospects?!?!?!!? I don't think I like it...

Not saying whether I like it or not (much too early for that), but just pointing out that he does a lot of things right at the plate.

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Swisher had 100 walks last year and is young.

I'm just not comforted by Beane wanting our top pitching prospect.

Where does Swisher play? Is Konerko going to be shipped like he should be?

Chicken Dinner
01-03-2008, 01:11 PM
I guess this answers the question of the PK backup. :rolleyes:

Palehose13
01-03-2008, 01:11 PM
He has a good OBP, takes a lot of pitches, and walks a lot. Plus the average has increased each of his three years in MLB. Interesting move . . .

Yes and he can play 1B, all OF positions, and is a switch hitting power guy. Oh yeah...and he's only 27 and MLB proven. With this move it looks like KW is still wanting to compete in 2008.

Last year 59 games in CF, 57 in RF, and 44 at 1B. He has played LF in the past (91 career games).

Grobber33
01-03-2008, 01:11 PM
It was those two(Gonzalez and Sweeney plus De Los Santos).:


The White Sox have acquired switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for three minor league players, pitcher Gio Gonzalez, pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney. The trade was announced Thursday afternoon by Kenny Williams, White Sox general manager and senior vice president.

Swisher, 27, batted .262 (141-539) with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in 150 games for the Athletics in 2007, setting career-bests for batting average, on-base percentage (.381), walks (100), doubles (36) and stolen bases (three).

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Don't we already have a logjam at the positions he plays?

Over 200 AB came as CF last year...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5937

Is this the leadoff CF the Sox wanted or is he too big of a stick to leadoff?

Looks like the Sox get at least 2 years of arbitration before he's a FA also, no wonder it cost so much.

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Where does Swisher play? Is Konerko going to be shipped like he should be?

Maybe we can trade him for Gio, I hear he's a pretty good pitcher in the Athletics Farm System

FedEx227
01-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Swisher had 100 walks last year and is young.

I'm just not comforted by Beane wanting our top pitching prospect.

Where does Swisher play? Is Konerko going to be shipped like he should be?



That's what I'm still puzzled by?

He plays OF, but not really well, even then he's only usable at LF, which we already have a logjam with.

To me this almost seals it that we HAVE to trade Konerko for prospects because right now we would have absolutely the worst farm system in the majors. That way Swisher can take 1st.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:12 PM
So that's basically our top three prospects, right? Hefty price . . .

Dan the Man
01-03-2008, 01:13 PM
I really don't like trading Gio AND Fautino in this trade.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Over 200 AB came as CF last year...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5937

Is this the leadoff CF the Sox wanted or is he too big of a stick to leadoff?

Looks like the Sox get at least 2 years of arbitration before he's a FA also, no wonder it cost so much.

Career OBP of .361 (from ESPN). But I'm not sure how he is in the field. I like Swisher, but it seems we sacrificed a lot...I'll wait for more developement before I pass judgement.

FedEx227
01-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Wow! DLS AND GIO!

We've clinched the worst farm system in the majors, congrats guys!

SoxFan78
01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
Good thing the Sox flagship station is covering this trade. Oh wait, they are talking about Jerry Angelo's press conference, again. Go to hell cubbie fan Murph.

I like this trade. A proven Major leaguer for two prospects. I was high on Sweeney, but when he came up to the big game, he didnt do much.

Good move by KW.

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
It was those two(Gonzalez and Sweeney plus De Los Santos).:


The White Sox have acquired switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for three minor league players, pitcher Gio Gonzalez, pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney. The trade was announced Thursday afternoon by Kenny Williams, White Sox general manager and senior vice president.

Swisher, 27, batted .262 (141-539) with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in 150 games for the Athletics in 2007, setting career-bests for batting average, on-base percentage (.381), walks (100), doubles (36) and stolen bases (three).

UH...

OH...

This guy could turn into the next Frank Thomas. Expect the ****storm to begin...

markopat
01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
It was those two(Gonzalez and Sweeney plus De Los Santos).:


The White Sox have acquired switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for three minor league players, pitcher Gio Gonzalez, pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney. The trade was announced Thursday afternoon by Kenny Williams, White Sox general manager and senior vice president.
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Seems like a lot for this cat.

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
If De Los Santos is included this trade blows.

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
It was those two(Gonzalez and Sweeney plus De Los Santos).:


The White Sox have acquired switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for three minor league players, pitcher Gio Gonzalez, pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney. The trade was announced Thursday afternoon by Kenny Williams, White Sox general manager and senior vice president.

Swisher, 27, batted .262 (141-539) with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in 150 games for the Athletics in 2007, setting career-bests for batting average, on-base percentage (.381), walks (100), doubles (36) and stolen bases (three).


And CABRERA had to high of an asking price? If this is the deal get Kenny out of here before he goes Isaiah Thomas on us!

Gammons Peter
01-03-2008, 01:15 PM
ha, get ready for all the DLS lovers to cry

Corlose 15
01-03-2008, 01:15 PM
It was those two(Gonzalez and Sweeney plus De Los Santos).:


The White Sox have acquired switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for three minor league players, pitcher Gio Gonzalez, pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney. The trade was announced Thursday afternoon by Kenny Williams, White Sox general manager and senior vice president.

Swisher, 27, batted .262 (141-539) with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in 150 games for the Athletics in 2007, setting career-bests for batting average, on-base percentage (.381), walks (100), doubles (36) and stolen bases (three).


Holy **** thats a lot to give up for Nick Swisher.:(: He's gotta be the Center Fielder then I'd assume.

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 01:15 PM
I liked Ryan Sweeney a lot. I am not happy.

KRS1
01-03-2008, 01:15 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080103&content_id=2338416&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


Well, I have been a fan of Swisher since he was still just a spec, but I really don't think he is worth all three of those guys. Wow.

Rocky Soprano
01-03-2008, 01:16 PM
How long till we hear KW say:

"I've wanted Swisher for a LONG time. I am glad we didn't get a player like Swisher but Swisher himself."

markopat
01-03-2008, 01:16 PM
Holy **** thats a lot to give up for Nick Swisher.:(: He's gotta be the Center Fielder then I'd assume.


Can he even play CF???

Procol Harum
01-03-2008, 01:16 PM
I like the obp and his fielding is pretty decent + the power--I think I like the move for 2008, but the condition of our farm system is really a problem. What's 2010 and after going to look like? We gotta start spending some more moolah on scouting and shoring up the minors.

DrCrawdad
01-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Swisher for Faustino, Sweeney (Todd) AND Gio Gonzalez?

I don't get it?

FedEx227
01-03-2008, 01:17 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080103&content_id=2338416&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


Well, I have been a fan of Swisher since he was still just a spec, but I really don't think he is worth all three of those guys. Wow.

I'm the same HUGE Swisher fan, however for Gio and Sweeney let's do it. For DLS and Sweeney, let's do it. For Gio, DLS AND Sweeney. Not too sure. Luckily he's still young, but damn.

I like what he does at the plate though and he'll be a welcome change from what most of our lineup does, but I still hate depleting our farm system further.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:17 PM
He also mashes against LHP, which will be nice to see.

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:18 PM
I'm at a loss for words how bad this trade is. At the moment, it's heavily in favor of Oakland, and historically speaking, they know pitching. This sucks.

chisoxmike
01-03-2008, 01:18 PM
**** this.

drewcifer
01-03-2008, 01:18 PM
He has a good OBP, takes a lot of pitches, and walks a lot. Plus the average has increased each of his three years in MLB. Interesting move . . .

I agree. Just looking at his game logs... He played over a third of the season last year in CF.

SoxFan78
01-03-2008, 01:18 PM
I dont understand what people want on this board. What do you want, a good farm system, or a good major league ball club? To get something you have to give up something. We are not going to get Nick Swisher for some single A 2B and Juan Uribe.

I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!

Chicken Dinner
01-03-2008, 01:18 PM
Swisher is a .500 hitter at US Cellular. :D:

sox1970
01-03-2008, 01:18 PM
The Konerko Watch is on.

This deal smells.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:19 PM
I dont understand what people want on this board. What do you want, a good farm system, or a good major league ball club? To get something you have to give up something. We are not going to get Nick Swisher for some single A 2B and Juan Uribe.

I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!

Spot on.

rdivaldi
01-03-2008, 01:20 PM
:angry: :angry: :angry:

Dan Mega
01-03-2008, 01:20 PM
I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!

So you can't have both, it has to be one or the other? Ever heard of the Twins or Red Sox? What planet do you live on?

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 01:20 PM
I told my brother I would post this for him. :D: He was a big fan of Sweeney.

Today we lost a great man. A man in the form of Ryan Sweeney. He was a terrific ball player and a sweetheart. He leaves behind dozens of fans and most of all a chance for a great career in Chicago. I will always remember his first home run agaisnt the Royals last May. Sweeney will be missed for his bat, his athleticism, his hard work and his charm. Ryan Sweeney...We salute you...r.i.p.



Don't ask. My brother is a weird kid.

Paulwny
01-03-2008, 01:21 PM
I dont understand what people want on this board. What do you want, a good farm system, or a good major league ball club? To get something you have to give up something. We are not going to get Nick Swisher for some single A 2B and Juan Uribe.

I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!


THANK YOU, exactly my feelings.

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:21 PM
We have nothing in our farm system now.

At least we got the one missing piece, though. :rolleyes:

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:21 PM
While there still may be other moves, I think this solidifies our line-up pretty well. The biggest question still is the pitching staff. We are relying a LOT on Gavin and John, along with the normal roll of the dice that is a MLB bullpen.

FedEx227
01-03-2008, 01:22 PM
I dont understand what people want on this board. What do you want, a good farm system, or a good major league ball club? To get something you have to give up something. We are not going to get Nick Swisher for some single A 2B and Juan Uribe.

I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!

Actually you can develop both at the same time.

And based on the current state of this team aka Gavin Floyd in our rotation, I'd say I'd be more inclined to grabbing up some prospects and making a go in 09-10.

FedEx227
01-03-2008, 01:23 PM
We have nothing in our farm system now.

At least we got the one missing piece, though. :rolleyes:

Plan 9G in effect. :D:

I still like Swisher though.

KRS1
01-03-2008, 01:23 PM
Oh yeah, for those who asked, he is definitely more than capable of playing goof CF at USCF. He also mashes lefties which is a bonus. He was a better hitter away from Oakland(slugging and average both had big boosts), so those stats are the ones I like to look at when thinking about how he will perform here.

Thigpen "57"
01-03-2008, 01:23 PM
At first I said "wuuuhhhhh...". Now I am thinking more along the lines of "hmmmm".

The low average is a bit scary, but I like the OBP and 2B/HR numbers for a switch hitter. Also he does have versatility for the OF, including CF. And as was mentioned in another post of "concern", he can play 1B as well.

But to lose FDLS, Gio, and Sweeney seems like quite a package to give up for him. 2 of our top pitching prospects, and a very young outfielder with great potential is quite a loss in my eyes. They were the 3 that I (and many other WSI'ers) was looking forward to the most in terms of developing in-house.

:?:

Dan Mega
01-03-2008, 01:24 PM
Oh yeah, for those who asked, he is definitely more than capable of playing goof CF at USCF. He also mashes lefties which is a bonus. He was a better hitter away from Oakland(slugging and average both had big boosts), so those stats are the ones I like to look at when thinking about how he will perform here.

This is true. I just don't like what they had to give up for him.

Grobber33
01-03-2008, 01:24 PM
For those interested,here is the run down on the four Players in this trade directly from the Sox:

www.grobber.com (http://www.grobber.com)

Corlose 15
01-03-2008, 01:24 PM
Can he even play CF???

According to baseball reference, he played 59 games there last season, and one each the previous two. It appears most of his time has been spent in the corner spots though.

Like somebody else said, I like this for this season I guess, I think he fills a hole. But Sweeney, Gonzalez, and DLS, is A LOT. :(:

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:24 PM
Didn't a lot of people think this same price roughly was too high for Cabrera--who's twice the player Swisher is?

You don't make this trade that leaves us with nothing in the minors unless:

1. you get a world beater in return (fail)
2. you can make a run at a WS this year (fail)

I could've lived with just Gio, but DLS puts this way over the top.

JohnTucker0814
01-03-2008, 01:24 PM
I dont understand what people want on this board. What do you want, a good farm system, or a good major league ball club? To get something you have to give up something. We are not going to get Nick Swisher for some single A 2B and Juan Uribe.

I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!

The problem is that we finally have possibly two high ceiling pitchers and we ship both of them for an outfielder not named Crawford... and we have possibly two holes in our rotation that Gio had a shot at filling, and filling better than Broadway...

Wimpy
01-03-2008, 01:26 PM
When my friend called me and told me we traded Gio, Sweeny, and De Los Santos to Oakland I thought we got Blanton. When I heard Swisher I was pissed. Kenny Williams needs to be fired immediately. This is terrible. Absolutely terrible.

Gammons Peter
01-03-2008, 01:26 PM
We have nothing in our farm system now.

At least we got the one missing piece, though. :rolleyes:


Ha, we had nothing to begin with. Sweeney is a bust, DLS is an A-baller that most of you have never seen (yet love) and Gio might become a solid 2 or 3.

GREAT TRADE

munchman33
01-03-2008, 01:26 PM
I'm usually pretty positive after trades.

But good God we got hosed big time. Swisher was worth Gio straight up. DLS was a piece only for a big time superstar. Wow. Just wow. :o:

As angry as I've been all offseason, I've never really thought Kenny himself was doing a bad job, just that he was hampered. But this might have been the most blatantly lopsided trade I've ever witnessed, including the Kasmir for Zambrano deal. There are no doubts in my mind now. Kenny has become desperate to the point that he's reaching for straws that are ruining our organization for years to come. He's doing a really bad job. He needs to be fired.

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 01:26 PM
But to lose FDLS, Gio, and Sweeney seems like quite a package to give up for him. 2 of our top pitching prospects, and a very young outfielder with great potential is quite a loss in my eyes. They were the 3 that I (and many other WSI'ers) was looking forward to the most in terms of developing in-house.

:?:

We'll probably see them at Comiskey in early April instead of late September now.

munchman33
01-03-2008, 01:28 PM
Ha, we had nothing to begin with. Sweeney is a bust, DLS is an A-baller that most of you have never seen (yet love) and Gio might become a solid 2 or 3.

GREAT TRADE

Many of us have. That's why we were so vehemently against moving him.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:29 PM
So if Swisher is penciled in at CF, we know for a fact that the Sox have a big chunk of money available. The question is, where does it go? Are they going to make a huge investment in scouting and the 2008 draft?

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Ha, we had nothing to begin with. Sweeney is a bust, DLS is an A-baller that most of you have never seen (yet love) and Gio might become a solid 2 or 3.

GREAT TRADE

But Swisher will become the next Thome, right? Read the scouting reports on those guys.

Swisher doesn't even fill a need. Hopefully Konerko is traded and we can replace those prospects somewhat.

KRS1
01-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Ha, we had nothing to begin with. Sweeney is a bust, DLS is an A-baller that most of you have never seen (yet love) and Gio might become a solid 2 or 3.

GREAT TRADE

Ryan is 22 freaking years old. He is not a bust. DLS WAS an A-baller, who I have seen, and he has some wicked stuff. Gio is a stud, and has shown that at every level. People are upset because those guys were all big parts of our hope for the future, and two of them in Sweeney and Gio in the immediate future.

Demafrost
01-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Decent move for the Sox. I'd probably rather have him than the Fuku character on the Cubs

hillbilly
01-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Ha, we had nothing to begin with. Sweeney is a bust, DLS is an A-baller that most of you have never seen (yet love) and Gio might become a solid 2 or 3.

GREAT TRADE

I agree with you. Sweeney is absolutely a bust. His swing is way too loopy and long. Who knows where DLS is going to go. And Gio will probably be a decent starter at some point at best. We now have swisher and quentin both signed through 2010 with swisher eligible for arbitration in 2011. We obviously have to make strides in the farm system/scouting in the future to make it better. This makes us a very competitive team for this year and for the next 3 years. If we can package PK for a starter thats young and signed for a few years and move Swisher to first, we are looking at a pretty solid core for the next few years.

the1tab
01-03-2008, 01:31 PM
On the plus side, Swisher has a great mullet and was prominent in "Moneyball."

I have enough frequent Flyer miles to get Kenny to Asia one way... thoughts?

munchman33
01-03-2008, 01:32 PM
So if Swisher is penciled in at CF, we know for a fact that the Sox have a big chunk of money available. The question is, where does it go? Are they going to make a huge investment in scouting and the 2008 draft?


Maybe we'll sign someone. Oh wait, all the good free agents are gone.

But you never know, it isn't April 1st yet.

chisoxmike
01-03-2008, 01:33 PM
I just don't get it. We already have nothing in our farm system, and now they traded their top 2 pitching prospects...***?

Swisher isn't going to make us any better than we were yesterday. This team's pitching still blows. In the rotation and in the bullpen.

With a rotation that has Gavin Floyd and Jose Contreras, you got to have back ups.

Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher aren't bad players at all, but they're trading a lot of pitching for these two guys. One of them, may not even sign here after 2008. :?:

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:33 PM
$3.5 million (2008), $5.3 million (2009), $6.75 million (2010) and $9 million (2011). The 2012 club option is worth $10.25 million, with a $1 million buyout. If Swisher finishes among the top five in the MVP voting in any year through 2011, the club option increases to $12 million. The deal includes a limited no-trade option in which he can designate six teams to where he will not go during the final guaranteed year and the option year.

http://www.kffl.com/player/10017/MLB

Not bad money IMO

veeter
01-03-2008, 01:33 PM
Kenny's trades always hit me in the gut, because at first glance, it looks like we paid too much. This one looked Todd Ritchie-ish at first. But Swisher is pretty darn good and inexpensive. Losing DLS scares me the most, and I've never even seen him throw a pitch. Sweeney and Gio will be average at best, just my opinion. Swisher's attitude is just what this team needs. He and AJ will either be best friends, or have a fist fight in spring training.

Wimpy
01-03-2008, 01:33 PM
If you give up those 3 guys you need to get someone better than Nick freakin Swisher. I am so mad.

Unregistered
01-03-2008, 01:33 PM
I dont understand what people want on this board. What do you want, a good farm system, or a good major league ball club? To get something you have to give up something. We are not going to get Nick Swisher for some single A 2B and Juan Uribe.

I watch everybody on this board, they want to WIN NOW, then ***** about giving up a farm system. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!

Spot on.

THANK YOU, exactly my feelings.

Yeah, just let me know on what planet Nick Swisher gets us any more than 3rd place in our division. If that's your guys' idea of "winning now," then mission accomplished.

In the meantime, we'll be a mediocre team now with absolutely ZERO farm system. Sweet trade, KW. :mad:

ZombieRob
01-03-2008, 01:34 PM
Remember,Kenny has a plan .We have to trust in Kenny.I sense something great happening out of all of this .:smile:

Corlose 15
01-03-2008, 01:35 PM
What I find most interesting about this trade is what it says that KW thinks about Danks and Floyd. I'm a fan of Floyd's and think that he can still be a good pitcher if he gets some confidence but I'm not so confident in him that I'd trade Gonzalez.

So much for competition for the rotation in spring training.

balke
01-03-2008, 01:35 PM
Kooky trade IMO. The two best pitching prospects for a solid OFer. Sox fans were already quieting down about CF a bit because of the players they got. Now another power OFer with a bad batting avg but good OBP.


Honestly I like the move right now. This team will be self terminating soon. If things fall apart at the deadline, the Sox have a lot of trade bait with Dye (who will most definitely want out of here if the Sox are losing), Thome (Who could help a team in the playoffs with his bat), Cabrera (Who although the Sox say he stays, hasn't signed yet and is the perfect last second SS grab).

The Sox give up a lot now, but may get a lot if they can't win this season. This is still the win now philosophy which opens up next offseason a ton for the Sox to restructure.

JermaineDye05
01-03-2008, 01:35 PM
I like the idea of getting Swisher, but I don't like the idea of losing Gio AND Fautino. Although unproven, they had so much potential and I just wonder what the future of our rotation will be. I still like Danks and think he could be good, but Gavin Floyd doesn't seem like a starter to me unless he can manage to get a third pitch. I need to see more of Nick Masset before I can agree with putting him in the rotation, he does have the pitches though. I never did see Gio or Fautino pitch more then an inning, I've just read the scouting reports and who knows if they can live up to their potential. I just don't like the idea of weakening an already depleted farm system.

To me this move is another like half re-build half help the team now. You get younger and better in the outfield, the problem is usually when you re-build you don't trade 3 of your top prospects. I think this means Dye is on the way sometime this year. This trade is coming up just in time for Sox fest too. I honestly don't envy Kenny come sox fest.

I'm still unsure how I feel about the trade. Right now I'm kind of disliking it, because of all the 'ifs'.

munchman33
01-03-2008, 01:36 PM
Remember,Kenny has a plan .We have to trust in Kenny.I sense something great happening out of all of this .:smile:

Kenny getting fired?

thomas35forever
01-03-2008, 01:36 PM
Hmmm...dunno about this trade. I really don't know what to expect from Swisher or where he's gonna play. Giving up two pitching prospects and Sweeney from an already thin farm system? This move will keep everyone guessing until Opening Day.

batmanZoSo
01-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Why on earth is this org so concerned about position players? This boggles my mind.

All this talk about Hunter and Cabrera and "wanting Carlos Quentin specifically" and now Swisher, yet there's no pressing need to address our depleted rotation.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:37 PM
What I find most interesting about this trade is what it says that KW thinks about Danks and Floyd. I'm a fan of Floyd's and think that he can still be a good pitcher if he gets some confidence but I'm not so confident in him that I'd trade Gonzalez.

So much for competition for the rotation in spring training.

Yep. The 2008 season will essentially hang on the arms of Danks and Floyd. If those two guys live up to the hype, this team competes. If they do not, our rotation is below average and we apparently have nothing to replace them with. Unless we can make a trade and pick up big time salary, but I don't see any pitchers out there on the market as a salary dump that could fill the #3 or #4 spot in the rotation.

markopat
01-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Remember,Kenny has a plan .We have to trust in Kenny.I sense something great happening out of all of this .:smile:

I love the attitude ZombieRob...I SO hope you are right!! I want to believe and I hope this turns out to be a great move.

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 01:37 PM
What I find most interesting about this trade is what it says that KW thinks about Danks and Floyd. I'm a fan of Floyd's and think that he can still be a good pitcher if he gets some confidence but I'm not so confident in him that I'd trade Gonzalez.

So much for competition for the rotation in spring training.


I dont think this says anything. I think what this says is Kenny has no plan anymore and is grabbing at straws.

ZombieRob
01-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Kenny getting fired?
No ,All the people down on Kenny.We have to trust his judgement on this.Swisher is a solid baseball player.Who knows if Gio Sweeny Etc will ever even make it in the majors.

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 01:38 PM
I love the attitude ZombieRob...I SO hope you are right!! I want to believe and I hope this turns out to be a great move.


I think he was being a smart ass.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-03-2008, 01:39 PM
It seems like a lot, for a decent position player...which I thought we had alot of.

the1tab
01-03-2008, 01:40 PM
Are we going to trade Paulie to Texas and Dye to Seattle?

The only roster(s) Kenny Williams has made stronger this winter are the top half of the AL West. Why not load up the bottom half w/ the rest of our talent and see what happens next year. We could probably get Jarrod Washburn for Dye and Kevin Millwood for Paulie, which would help our rotation...

I say it again... I have frequent flyer miles to get KW one way to asia...

PalehosePlanet
01-03-2008, 01:40 PM
I agree with you. Sweeney is absolutely a bust. His swing is way too loopy and long. Who knows where DLS is going to go. And Gio will probably be a decent starter at some point at best. We now have swisher and quentin both signed through 2010 with swisher eligible for arbitration in 2011. We obviously have to make strides in the farm system/scouting in the future to make it better. This makes us a very competitive team for this year and for the next 3 years. If we can package PK for a starter thats young and signed for a few years and move Swisher to first, we are looking at a pretty solid core for the next few years.

Swisher is not arbitration eligible, he signed a 5 year/26.75 million dollar deal last year. He's locked up through 2011 with a 10.25 million team option for 2012.

markopat
01-03-2008, 01:41 PM
I think he was being a smart ass.

Thanks for the translation Jenn...so you're saying it should have been typed in teal?

I believe!!

hillbilly
01-03-2008, 01:41 PM
Swisher is not arbitration eligible, he signed a 5 year/26.75 million dollar deal last year. He's locked up through 2011 with a 10.25 million team option for 2012.

Even better. My mistake.

balke
01-03-2008, 01:41 PM
Yeah, just let me know on what planet Nick Swisher gets us any more than 3rd place in our division. If that's your guys' idea of "winning now," then mission accomplished.

In the meantime, we'll be a mediocre team now with absolutely ZERO farm system. Sweet trade, KW. :mad:


I don't know who is going to leadoff, and that is a problem, but overall I like the team to compete right now lineup-wise.

Quentin
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Swisher
Fields/Crede
Pierzynski
Ramirez/Ozuna/Uribe/Richar


And many would argue there already was "Zero" farm system. Sweeney wasn't showing much but how to strike-out looking good. The pitching prospects hurt, but you gotta give something to get something.

Wimpy
01-03-2008, 01:41 PM
Here is the take from Rotoworld...

http://rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227901

chisoxmike
01-03-2008, 01:43 PM
I don't know who is going to leadoff, and that is a problem, but overall I like the team to compete right now lineup-wise.

Quentin
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Swisher
Fields/Crede
Pierzynski
Ramirez/Ozuna/Uribe/Richar


And many would argue there already was "Zero" farm system. Sweeney wasn't showing much but how to strike-out looking good. The pitching prospects hurt, but you gotta give something to get something.

The lineup is fine, but when it scores 6 runs and our pitching gives up 8 runs, it doesn't really matter does it?

esbrechtel
01-03-2008, 01:44 PM
My thoughts are it means either we do not have faith in Quentin in LF OR Dye is done in RF and will DH which means Thome is gone AND/OR Crede will go in ST for prospects OR are Konerko's days numbered in a sox uniform...

ZombieRob
01-03-2008, 01:44 PM
I think ultimately we are going to like this trade.This guy is a good player and can bat from the leftside.

nccwsfan
01-03-2008, 01:44 PM
I don't know who is going to leadoff, and that is a problem, but overall I like the team to compete right now lineup-wise.

Quentin
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Swisher
Fields/Crede
Pierzynski
Ramirez/Ozuna/Uribe/Richar


And many would argue there already was "Zero" farm system. Sweeney wasn't showing much but how to strike-out looking good. The pitching prospects hurt, but you gotta give something to get something.

Owens
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede/Fields
Swisher
Richar

:dunno:

balke
01-03-2008, 01:44 PM
Well IMO there is definitely another deal coming. The missing piece is leadoff hitter. IF Kenny wants a leadoff hitter, he needs to use Owens in CF, meaning Quentin to the minors. I don't think Kenny can justify that. This might be a trade to trade type move where Swisher goes in one door and out the other.

Although that rotoworld article says maybe Swisher #2

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Fields/Crede
Pierzynski
Quentin
Uribe/Richar/Ramirez/Ozuna

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:45 PM
A line-up with JD, PK, Thome, Swisher, and Fields has the potential to score a LOT of runs. It's clearly the rotation that is the issue now. But I don't think there is much that can/will be done about that right now.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:45 PM
So where his he going to play? Center Field?

ZombieRob
01-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Here is the take from Rotoworld...

http://rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227901
I agree with most of it .But i thik he'll be better batting 3rd than 2nd

wilburaga
01-03-2008, 01:46 PM
What is it with Gio 'Hot Potato' Gonzalez? Ever hear of a guy getting traded three times before appearing in a major league game?

W

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Owens
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede/Fields
Swisher
Richar

:dunno:

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Crede/Fields
Pierzynski
Quentin
Richar/Uribe

I think this move ultimately makes Cabrera our leadoff guy.

Sad
01-03-2008, 01:46 PM
simply put, alot of "who is going to play where" depends on Joe Crede's back...

the1tab
01-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Try this lineup out for size:

Cabrera - SS
Swisher - LF
Konerko - 1B
Thome - DH
Dye - RF
Fields - 3B
AJ - C
Lord Have Mercy - CF
Richar - 2B

nice OBP. Makes molasses on hot concrete look like Carl frickin' Lewis.

I'm scurred.

Taliesinrk
01-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Ahhh!...!!!!!... What the heck man? Muchman put it pretty well. We got ****ing hosed. NEWSFLASH: WE'RE NOT WINNING THIS YEAR!!

Swisher is 27 years old and he hti a career high ~.270 last year. Are you kidding? I don't care if he's a fan favorite or not. How could we give up our two highest regarded pitchers for him? Sweeney - fine. But I don't even think I like Gio straight up for Swisher. I mean, is Kenny trying to get another Aaron Rowand? We should have been holding for the future while keeping our current team competetive. This move goes against both of these ideas. I've been pretty quiet all season, but this is enough. I understand that possibly we had unfortunate circumstances w/ both Cabrera and/or Hunter. This was a move of desperation, and it was the Wrong one. We're going to be desperate alright. Now, however, it won't just be this season, theres a much higher likelihood it will be for the next couple. We are really counting on Danks and Floyd now. The more I type, the more I can't believe this move went through. Extremely poor decision - I really hope I eat crow... I just don't think so.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:47 PM
Wow the Sox gave up Gio, and De los Santos, and Sweeney, We should of used it to get something bigger, hell throw in a couple more guys for Miguel Cabrera.

BeviBall!
01-03-2008, 01:47 PM
This is the first deal KW has ever done where I am beside myself pissed. I was even on board with Todd Ritchie at the time.

How you can trade our two best pitching prospects, one of which you made a point to re-acquire, for a player that's a dime a dozen is absolutely crazy.

Chicken Dinner
01-03-2008, 01:48 PM
The lineup is fine, but when it scores 6 runs and our pitching gives up 8 runs, it doesn't really matter does it?

They gave up 8 runs last year with Garland!! :rolleyes:

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 01:48 PM
The lineup is fine, but when it scores 6 runs and our pitching gives up 8 runs, it doesn't really matter does it?


8? That is nice of you.

Thigpen "57"
01-03-2008, 01:49 PM
When my friend called me and told me we traded Gio, Sweeny, and De Los Santos to Oakland I thought we got Blanton.

That would of been real niiiice! This trade will make some great fodder on the boards for the coming weekend.

I really do like Swisher, and think he will be a Great player on the Sox for years to come, even if I dont like what we gave up for him. He has the right attitude, style, and skills. I do wonder if this will be a precursor to something else. Hard to visualize Paulie getting traded, but stranger things have happened.

LF: Quentin, Swisher, Owens, Ozuna
CF: Owens, Swisher, Ramirez??, BA??
RF: Dye, Swisher, Quentin
1B: Paulie, Swisher, Dye
DH: Thome, Paulie, Dye, Swisher

So is this a good sign of roster depth, or a logjam of players? Would be nice to get another pitcher ... or two. Curious to see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 01:49 PM
Ahhh!...!!!!!... What the heck man? Muchman put it pretty well. We got ****ing hosed. NEWSFLASH: WE'RE NOT WINNING THIS YEAR!!

Swisher is 27 years old and he hti a career high ~.270 last year. Are you kidding? I don't care if he's a fan favorite or not. How could we give up our two highest regarded pitchers for him? Sweeney - fine. But I don't even think I like Gio straight up for Swisher. I mean, is Kenny trying to get another Aaron Rowand? We should have been holding for the future while keeping our current team competetive. This move goes against both of these ideas. I've been pretty quiet all season, but this is enough. I understand that possibly we had unfortunate circumstances w/ both Cabrera and/or Hunter. This was a move of desperation, and it was the Wrong one. We're going to be desperate alright. Now, however, it won't just be this season, theres a much higher likelihood it will be for the next couple. We are really counting on Danks and Floyd now. The more I type, the more I can't believe this move went through. Extremely poor decision - I really hope I eat crow... I just don't think so.

I can understand those railing against this move, but to judge Swisher based on his batting average is not smart. Analyze to death what we gave up, but Nick Swisher can hit. He can get on base. He can take pitches. My guess is he hits second and scores a lot of runs in 2008.

jabrch
01-03-2008, 01:49 PM
Well - I personally don't like the deal - Swisher isn't my cup of tea. Gio and DLS with Sweeney? Just seems pricey to me.

I'm sure Kenny has a plan - I'm scratching my head on this one.

PorkChopExpress
01-03-2008, 01:50 PM
Are we going to trade Paulie to Texas and Dye to Seattle?

What about Fields and Richar for Brian Roberts?

Thigpen "57"
01-03-2008, 01:50 PM
When my friend called me and told me we traded Gio, Sweeny, and De Los Santos to Oakland I thought we got Blanton.

That would of been real niiiice! This trade will make some great fodder on the boards for the coming weekend.

I really do like Swisher, and think he will be a Great player on the Sox for years to come, even if I dont like what we gave up for him. He has the right attitude, style, and skills. I do wonder if this will be a precursor to something else. Hard to visualize Paulie getting traded, but stranger things have happened.

LF: Quentin, Swisher, Owens, Ozuna
CF: Owens, Swisher, Ramirez??, BA??
RF: Dye, Swisher, Quentin
1B: Paulie, Swisher, Dye
DH: Thome, Paulie, Dye, Swisher

So is this a good sign of roster depth, or a logjam of players? Would be nice to get another pitcher ... or two. Curious to see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.

nccwsfan
01-03-2008, 01:50 PM
I think ultimately we are going to like this trade.This guy is a good player and can bat from the leftside.

High OBP, takes a lot of pitches (4th in the AL in 07'), and has some pop in the bat. Provided he can play adequate defense the lineup looks to be set.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:50 PM
That would of been real niiiice! This trade will make some great fodder on the boards for the coming weekend.

I really do like Swisher, and think he will be a Great player on the Sox for years to come, even if I dont like what we gave up for him. He has the right attitude, style, and skills. I do wonder if this will be a precursor to something else. Hard to visualize Paulie getting traded, but stranger things have happened.

LF: Quentin, Swisher, Owens, Ozuna
CF: Owens, Swisher, Ramirez??, BA??
RF: Dye, Swisher, Quentin
1B: Paulie, Swisher, Dye
DH: Thome, Paulie, Dye, Swisher

So is this a good sign of roster depth, or a logjam of players? Would be nice to get another pitcher ... or two. Curious to see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.

Ozzie is going to have an anyurism (sp?) with all those combos...

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:50 PM
Try this lineup out for size:

Cabrera - SS
Swisher - LF
Konerko - 1B
Thome - DH
Dye - RF
Fields - 3B
AJ - C
Lord Have Mercy - CF
Richar - 2B

nice OBP. Makes molasses on hot concrete look like Carl frickin' Lewis.

I'm scurred.
Can Swisher play CF? Cause I think if he can then Jerry Owens will start in left and then when Quentin is ready he'll be our starting Lf,

SBSoxFan
01-03-2008, 01:51 PM
Here is the take from Rotoworld...

http://rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=227901

Wow, the guy strikes out 140 times a year, and they want him to bat second?!

In what world is that a good idea? ... Oh, the fantasy baseball world. :rolleyes:

Dan Mega
01-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Lord Have Mercy - CF


:rolling:

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Allow me to make sure I understand this correctly...we gave up not just one, but TWO of our best pitching prospects, and a twenty-two year old outfielder who could steal a lot of bases for a career .250 hitter with a whopping total of FOUR stolen bases? Do I have that right?

Kenny...what the **** are you doing?!?!!?:angry:

the1tab
01-03-2008, 01:52 PM
That would of been real niiiice! This trade will make some great fodder on the boards for the coming weekend.

I really do like Swisher, and think he will be a Great player on the Sox for years to come, even if I dont like what we gave up for him. He has the right attitude, style, and skills. I do wonder if this will be a precursor to something else. Hard to visualize Paulie getting traded, but stranger things have happened.

LF: Quentin, Swisher, Owens, Ozuna
CF: Owens, Swisher, Ramirez??, BA??
RF: Dye, Swisher, Quentin
1B: Paulie, Swisher, Dye
DH: Thome, Paulie, Dye, Swisher

So is this a good sign of roster depth, or a logjam of players? Would be nice to get another pitcher ... or two. Curious to see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.

I guess if you're thrilled about mediocrity, that's awesome depth.

So far this offseason here's what we've done:

Traded our #2-3 starter for a SS after re-upping our own.
Traded a 1B prospect for a guy that's known for being a great minor leaguer before hurting himself in Arizona. The 1B prospect later was involved in a deal for a top tier Starter (Haren).
Traded away our top three prospects for a guy known for his hair more than his bat, and his appearance in a book more than an appearance at the plate.

Sounds like Pink Slip Hunting Season is now in session...

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:52 PM
That would of been real niiiice! This trade will make some great fodder on the boards for the coming weekend.

I really do like Swisher, and think he will be a Great player on the Sox for years to come, even if I dont like what we gave up for him. He has the right attitude, style, and skills. I do wonder if this will be a precursor to something else. Hard to visualize Paulie getting traded, but stranger things have happened.

LF: Quentin, Swisher, Owens, Ozuna
CF: Owens, Swisher, Ramirez??, BA??
RF: Dye, Swisher, Quentin
1B: Paulie, Swisher, Dye
DH: Thome, Paulie, Dye, Swisher

So is this a good sign of roster depth, or a logjam of players? Would be nice to get another pitcher ... or two. Curious to see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.
Theres no way that you have Swisher behind Jerry Owens for Center and have him lined up as a back up when you gave away pretty much your whole farm system. We really want to challenge Houston for the worst farm system I see

spiffie
01-03-2008, 01:53 PM
At least we didn't give up the farm to go get Miguel Cabrera and his 950+ OPS. Nah, we emptied out the farm for a guy a few years older and barely able to crack 850 OPS. And to boot we went after a guy coming out of BALCO-land who already showed a power decline last year.

Someone please tell me how it can be a good thing that we moved arguably our top 4 prospects in the farm system and by FAR our two top pitching prospects and ended up with Carlos Quentin and Nick Swisher.

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 01:54 PM
Allow me to make sure I understand this correctly...we gave up not just one, but TWO of our best pitching prospects, and a twenty-two year old outfielder who could steal a lot of bases for a career .250 hitter with a whopping total of FOUR stolen bases? Do I have that right?

Kenny...what the **** are you doing?!?!!?:angry:

Yeah, Yeah you have it right. But you have to believe. Kenny is the David Koresh of baseball.

Britt Burns
01-03-2008, 01:54 PM
It's official...we are completely devoid of prospects now.

This move smacks of desperation by KW, and even though I like Swisher he is not worth our 3 best prospects. Ugh.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:55 PM
I guess if you're thrilled about mediocrity, that's awesome depth.

So far this offseason here's what we've done:

Traded our #2-3 starter for a SS after re-upping out own.
Traded a 1B prospect for a guy that's known for being a great minor leaguer before hurting himself in Arizona. The 1B prospect later was involved in a deal for a top tier Starter (Haren).
Traded away our top three prospects for a guy known for his hair more than his bat, and his appearance in a book more than an appearance at the plate.

Sounds like Pink Slip Hunting Season is now in session...
totally agree, They were so high on Sweeney until this year and he was having wrist problems,a nd they were big on Gio and traded to get him back, also Everyone was getting be on Faustino....If you thought our Farm System sucked, just look at it now. Our #1 prospect now is probably Lance Broadway.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:56 PM
This move almost assures that Alexei Ramirez will start in AAA

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Swisher is not arbitration eligible, he signed a 5 year/26.75 million dollar deal last year. He's locked up through 2011 with a 10.25 million team option for 2012.

So we're getting a guy who can play CF with a career OPS of .825 which has been going up the last few years just as he enters his prime and is signed all the way through said prime at a very reasonable rate given the state of the current market.

Should Owens or Anderson develop, Swisher can bump over to RF and Dye can go to DH (of Thome is gone next year) or LF (if Quentin doesn't work out).

In theory, if KW is correct, then in a few years, the Sox are going to have Quentin, Rameriz and Swisher in the OF, Fields, Richar Cabrera and PK on the infield with AJ catching and possibly Dye at DH.

If KW is right about Richar, Rameriz and Quentin that team won't completely blow.

Sign Cabrera NOW, KW...

the1tab
01-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Has anyone checked the season ticket exchange for available games in '08 yet today?

I'm not sure we're gonna have to worry about selling the Cell out this year...

nevr say dye sox
01-03-2008, 01:56 PM
I like the trade. Means 60 homers from the corner outfielders and 50 SB from your center fielder. If you can move Konerko before he becomes a 10 and 5 guy, you put Swisher at first and Quentin becomes the left fielder. Also, I don't feel Gio was going to be anything more than a 4 or 5 rotation guy. Otherwise we would have seen him on the Sox. KW has a tendency to overhype our minor leaguers, and he has yet to trade somebody who has turned into a stud. Well maybe Chris Young, however he's not an idiot.

Flight #24
01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
$3.5 million (2008), $5.3 million (2009), $6.75 million (2010) and $9 million (2011). The 2012 club option is worth $10.25 million, with a $1 million buyout.

So we effectively get Swisher for 5/$35. Or we could have had Rowand for 5/$60 and have someone who actually can play CF reasonably well. Oh yeah, and kept DLS, Gio, Sweeney.

Smooth move KW. Smart teams use their resources to buy players and deal their top minor leaguers only to get top level players in return. That would have been true with Cabrera. Then there are the teams that trade their 2 pitching prospects with the highest ceilings for a good but not great player when they could have signed one using available cash instead.

Hooray! Kenny just guaranteed the Sox will be .500 but still not really contend and it only cost arguably 2 of the most valuable 3 assets they had!

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
The Sox are stockpiling corner outfielders like the Cubs collect second basemen...

whitesoxfan
01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
Swisher is an on-base machine. And he's here long-term while we don't have to pay him much. I know we gave up three of our better prospects, but you can't have everything. Some people are crying for us to make a move for a good player and then when we do, others cry that we gave up too much. I guess you can't please everyone.

Swisher's a very solid player.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
I wonder what Oakland fans think about this trade...They probably like it for getting the top 3 prospects for him expecially since they are trying to rebuild again trading away Haren for a lot of prospects...Is there an Oakland forum page or anything?

the1tab
01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
So we're getting a guy who can play CF with a career OPS of .825 which has been going up the last few years just as he enters his prime and is signed all the way through said prime at a very reasonable rate given the state of the current market.

Should Owens or Anderson develop, Swisher can bump over to RF and Dye can go to DH (of Thome is gone next year) or LF (if Quentin doesn't work out).

In theory, if KW is correct, then in a few years, the Sox are going to have Quentin, Rameriz and Swisher in the OF, Fields, Richar Cabrera and PK on the infield with AJ catching and possibly Dye at DH.

If KW is right about Richar, Rameriz and Quentin that team won't completely blow.

Sign Cabrera NOW, KW...

If it makes sense to sign Cabrera, KW won't.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 01:58 PM
Swisher is an on-base machine. And he's here long-term while we don't have to pay him much. I know we gave up three of our better prospects, but you can't have everything. Some people are crying for us to make a move for a good player and then when we do, others cry that we gave up too much. I guess you can't please everyone.

Swisher's a very solid player.
Our only 3 really. Hard time picking out of what we got now.

markopat
01-03-2008, 01:58 PM
I wonder what Oakland fans think about this trade...They probably like it for getting the top 3 prospects for him expecially since they are trying to rebuild again trading away Haren for a lot of prospects...Is there an Oakland forum page or anything?

I just went to look...They are SICK about losing Swisher.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-athletics&tid=55278

CubKilla
01-03-2008, 01:59 PM
Kenny...what the **** are you doing?!?!!?:angry:

Getting OWNED by Billy Beane again.

Seems like a big price to pay for Nick Swisher but, in Sweeney's case, I think it was quite obvious that the White Sox were not going to give him a chance unless he really knocked OG's and KW's socks off. If they were, he would have been a call-up late in '07.

And Gio seems to be a piece KW has no clue what he wants to do with. Part of the trade for Thome, traded back for him, made it known to everyone in the media that he was the piece he didn't want to trade away originally, but then trades him away again for Swisher :rolleyes:?

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 01:59 PM
I wonder what Oakland fans think about this trade...They probably like it for getting the top 3 prospects for him expecially since they are trying to rebuild again trading away Haren for a lot of prospects...Is there an Oakland forum page or anything?

From what I have seen on ESPN message boards (limited audience) most of them seem pissed because Swisher was a fan favorite. At the same time I don't think they have any idea who they prospects they got are.

Domeshot17
01-03-2008, 01:59 PM
Well IMO there is definitely another deal coming. The missing piece is leadoff hitter. IF Kenny wants a leadoff hitter, he needs to use Owens in CF, meaning Quentin to the minors. I don't think Kenny can justify that. This might be a trade to trade type move where Swisher goes in one door and out the other.

Although that rotoworld article says maybe Swisher #2

Cabrera
Swisher
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Fields/Crede
Pierzynski
Quentin
Uribe/Richar/Ramirez/Ozuna


Bingo about Swisher two. I like the deal. I hate losing the guys we lost, it hurts, but Swisher is a guy who could blow up in the Cell. Oakland has a lot of room, a real pitchers park in a lot of respects. You are talking about a guy who brings good OBP-Fairly good Speed and potentially great power in the 2 hole.

Im excited by this.

Cabrera can lead off, doesnt have game changing speed, but hes got enough to be a fine lead off man. Swisher is a great 2 and vs RHP Thome is an awesome 3 (for a long time last year his OBP was almost .500 vs rhp). PK 4 Dye 5 AJ 6 Fields 7 Quentin 8 Richar/Ramirez 9! The outsider of Richar/Ramirez plays the utility roll with ozuna and maybe uribe with owens or anderson as the 4th OF and Hall back up. The bullpen has the TALENT to turn around and be awesome if they can just keep it together. The rotation is a big if. I know everyone has written off Danks and Floyd, but this time last year Danks was a bigger prospect then Gio. He is coming off his first year in the majors, and he showed a lot. If he can handle the load of a full season in year 2, which isn't that much of a reach, he could be a fine 4th sp, and Floyd could easily win 10-11 as the 5th guy which is fine. Lance Broadway is mlb ready and showed a lot in his brief call up.

Everyone is clamoring look at the twins look at the red sox they win and have a good farm, well they constantly replenish their rotation through home grown pitching. If we want to win and sustain winning for a long time, we have to, absolutely must, have guys like Broadway-Danks-Poreda (eventually) have an impact, along with Egbert.

DeuceUnit
01-03-2008, 02:00 PM
At least we didn't give up the farm to go get Miguel Cabrera and his 950+ OPS. Nah, we emptied out the farm for a guy a few years older and barely able to crack 850 OPS. And to boot we went after a guy coming out of BALCO-land who already showed a power decline last year.

Someone please tell me how it can be a good thing that we moved arguably our top 4 prospects in the farm system and by FAR our two top pitching prospects and ended up with Carlos Quentin and Nick Swisher.

Hilarious! However, sad and very true at the same time :whiner:

Tekijawa
01-03-2008, 02:00 PM
I just went to look...They are SICK about losing Swisher.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-athletics&tid=55278

Good maybe we can trade back!

getonbckthr
01-03-2008, 02:00 PM
Ryan Sweney = Bust (so far)
DLS= Potentially solid prospect, PROSPECT
Gio= Potentially great prospect, prospect (no caps)\
I think this is a solid but potentially dynamic deal that really sets us up well. He should be the centerfielder. When Ramirez is ready we'll have the option of dealing for the best package available Konerko, Dye or Thome (assuming we resign Cabrera). I'm not upset about Sweeney. DLS ehhhh. Gio i'm a little upset but considering Swisher's age and contract status I understand the value he has and the cost he is.

The Immigrant
01-03-2008, 02:00 PM
I'm not a big fan of the deal, but Swisher's contract makes it easier to stomach. I'm excited to see what he can do next year.

spiffie
01-03-2008, 02:00 PM
So we're getting a guy who can play CF with a career OPS of .825 which has been going up the last few years just as he enters his prime and is signed all the way through said prime at a very reasonable rate given the state of the current market.
Actually Swisher's OPS took a 31 point drop last year. His OBP has gone up each season, but his SLG has been around 450 2 of 3 years, with one bump in 2006 when he had basically one gigantic month that pushed his numbers up (in April that year he had a SLG of 738 and hit 10 of his 31 homers that month). Also, he's spent much of his career in RF or 1B. Only 61 of his 493 games have been in CF, so while he might technically be able to play CF, how well he can play it seems to be a question mark.

CashMan
01-03-2008, 02:01 PM
KW has a tendency to overhype our minor leaguers, and he has yet to trade somebody who has turned into a stud.

If only John Paxon did this!

Domeshot17
01-03-2008, 02:02 PM
Getting OWNED by Billy Beane again.

Seems like a big price to pay for Nick Swisher but, in Sweeney's case, I think it was quite obvious that the White Sox were not going to give him a chance unless he really knocked OG's and KW's socks off. If they were, he would have been a call-up late in '07.

And Gio seems to be a piece KW has no clue what he wants to do with. Part of the trade for Thome, traded back for him, made it known to everyone in the media that he was the piece he didn't want to trade away originally, but then trades him away again for Swisher :rolleyes:?

I think Gio was insurance. When he dealt him the market had yet to go INSANE over pitching. Then he got him back thinking if Buehrle walks for his 125 mil like Zito, I have another lefty to round out the rotation with who had a high ceiling. Then when Buehrle signed, it came down to Gio or Danks, and Kenny took Danks. I love all 3, but very few teams have a rotation with 3 left handed starters, just too many Right handed hitters who can make a living off hitting lefties.

102605
01-03-2008, 02:04 PM
Swisher is a GRINDER!:redneck:redneck

Well I don't like this move at all on the surface but I still trust and stand by KW no matter what.

nodiggity59
01-03-2008, 02:04 PM
I trust Kenny when it comes to prospects. Or, at least I trust the suckitude of Sox prospects. The only one in 8 years we've regretted losing was Young. I'll take my chances.

I love Swisher. Slightly down last year, but he's an OBP machine and has had a 35 HR season in Oakland. Could easily have one here.

What's the scouting report on his CF ability? Shouldn't be too hard in our park compared to Oakland.

1. Cabrera
2. Swisher
3. Konerko
4. Thome
5. Dye
6. Fields
7. AJ
8. Quentin
9. Richar

I like that. Only weakness is that Cabrera is batting out of position, but he does beat the hell out of Owens.

Mickster
01-03-2008, 02:05 PM
My lineup:

Cabrera - SS
Swisher - CF
Thome - DH
Konerko - 1B
Dye - RF
Crede - 3B
AJ - C
Fields - LF
Richar/Uribe/Ramirez - 2B

It can score a ton of runs but will our pitching staff/outfield defense allow a ton?

infohawk
01-03-2008, 02:06 PM
Swisher for Faustino, Sweeney (Todd) AND Gio Gonzalez?

I don't get it?
I guess one way to look at it is that the Sox acquired a young and proven major league player who possesses power and, more particularly, the on-base skills the team really needs toward the top of the order. In exchange, they gave up a very good pitching prospect many project as a second or third starter in Gonzalez, an outfielder who, while the jury is still out, looks like he may never develop enough power to stick as a corner outfielder and a pitcher projected as a bullpen contributor who is still in the low minors. If only Gio lives up to his projection it's a great trade for the White Sox. If two of the three players perform well, it's an even trade because Swisher helps us immediately. If all three players traded for Swisher excel, then, yes, KW "overpaid." I doubt that will be the case, though. In summary, we won't know who got the best of this trade for a little while yet.

I should probably add that I really like this trade. I like what Swisher brings at the plate and I like his intangibles.

soxfan43
01-03-2008, 02:06 PM
I sort of like this move. I think Kenny has done a good job keeping us somewhat competitive next yaer(doubt the sox can take detroit as is) and keep the options open for the future. Sox have youngsters that can play basically anywhere but catcher and SS. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in 2 years, thome, dye and jose will all be off the books one way or another, thats a lot of money you can spend to add to the core of this team. I've given kenny some crap this winter, but looking at the much bigger picture, well done Mr. Williams.

VenturaFan23
01-03-2008, 02:06 PM
Too bad we didn't give them Brian Anderson instead of Sweeney. But then again, this board would probably explode 10 times more than it is now! :redneck

TomBradley72
01-03-2008, 02:06 PM
So we effectively get Swisher for 5/$35. Or we could have had Rowand for 5/$60 and have someone who actually can play CF reasonably well. Oh yeah, and kept DLS, Gio, Sweeney.



KW basically decided that giving up DLS, Gio and Sweeney for Swisher was better for the organization than taking a risk on Rowand's (Gold Glove, All Star CF) 5th year and retaining that talent in the farm system. I am completely in the camp that says we should have signed Rowand and taken the risk on a 5th year. Hell with Rowand's popularity in Chicago...at least he might drive some incremental ticket sales.

We are forever a team with tons of corner OF/1B/DHs.

Until Opening Day I'll continue to give KW the benefit of the doubt as the entire strategy unfolds...but so far...I don't seen how we have significantly improved our chances of returning to the World Series since the 2006 season ended.

pmck003
01-03-2008, 02:07 PM
Pretend your an A's fan for a moment: you just gave up your arguably best position player (overall best on the team?) for the 24th ranked prospect and two other minor leaguers you probably don't know much about, if anything. One is supposed to have a high ceiling.
Swisher has a good contract going into what should be his better seasons.

A's fans are whining and Sox fans are whining.

I'd say it was an even trade

BeviBall!
01-03-2008, 02:07 PM
I have no idea why we couldn't get a SP back in return. Even Lenny DiNardo would have lessened the blow.

Our offense won't be the problem... but our SPs are laughable. God knows who else will be on the move because we can't go into 2008 with this staff the way it is.

Taliesinrk
01-03-2008, 02:08 PM
I can understand those railing against this move, but to judge Swisher based on his batting average is not smart. Analyze to death what we gave up, but Nick Swisher can hit. He can get on base. He can take pitches. My guess is he hits second and scores a lot of runs in 2008.

Now that I'm done venting, I will say that I do like Swisher, but this move is not intelligent. I also believe he is/will be a good player.. but it doesn't help us THAT much because comparatively, we lost SO much, IMO. He's not a true CF, but (with albeit somewhat limited knowledge of his D - perhaps someone in the bay area could comment on this) I'm guessing is similar to Rowand defensively?? He's definitely a grinder, but we still have no true lead-off hitter either. I think the correct move would be to let Owens and BA battle it out for the starting job and put Swisher in LF. However, that makes Quentin worthless. I just don't understand the move... especially for the cost. One good thing is that he's not a FA until 2011.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:08 PM
My lineup:

Cabrera - SS
Swisher - CF
Thome - DH
Konerko - 1B
Dye - RF
Crede - 3B
AJ - C
Fields - LF
Richar/Uribe/Ramirez - 2B

It can score a ton of runs but will our pitching staff allow a ton?
I will assure you that Fields will not be playing leftfield for the Sox..The sox will trade Crede during ST or after a few weeks into the season proving he can still play...As for the 2nd base problem, Richar is our guy and Ramirez will start in AAA The sox are better off giving the job to Richar and to know what your gettin gout of Uribe. Kiss Uribe goodbye.

ajismyhero
01-03-2008, 02:08 PM
Kenny's trades always hit me in the gut, because at first glance, it looks like we paid too much. This one looked Todd Ritchie-ish at first. But Swisher is pretty darn good and inexpensive. Losing DLS scares me the most, and I've never even seen him throw a pitch. Sweeney and Gio will be average at best, just my opinion. Swisher's attitude is just what this team needs. He and AJ will either be best friends, or have a fist fight in spring training.

My thoughs exactly, although i'm leaning towards best friends because of their common hatred of Padilla - for all you Rowand lovers out there, Swisher is about as good as it gets. Hard nosed midwest guy.

IceczMan
01-03-2008, 02:08 PM
I think Gio was insurance. When he dealt him the market had yet to go INSANE over pitching. Then he got him back thinking if Buehrle walks for his 125 mil like Zito, I have another lefty to round out the rotation with who had a high ceiling. Then when Buehrle signed, it came down to Gio or Danks, and Kenny took Danks. I love all 3, but very few teams have a rotation with 3 left handed starters, just too many Right handed hitters who can make a living off hitting lefties.

My question is, what happens if Floyd doesnt get off to a good start and has another season where he cant make it in the MLB? Is Broadway our only solution? I'm not saying that Gio is any better than either Floyd or Broadway, but I like knowing that we had options in case a couple of these pitchers do not pan out.

Cuck the Fubs
01-03-2008, 02:09 PM
I can't back it with stats.............but I have a gut feeling this, and the other moves made this offseason are going to work out.

I don't quite get the folks who look at this team as a hopeless case, and that the Cell will be a ghosttown this season.

I think everyone is going to be pleasantly surpised in 2008.

Dan the Man
01-03-2008, 02:10 PM
I can't back it with stats.............but I have a gut feeling this, and the other moves made this offseason are going to work out.

I don't quite get the folks who look at this team as a hopeless case, and that the Cell will be a ghosttown this season.

I think everyone is going to be pleasantly surpised in 2008.
If we could get another starter, we might be able to compete for 2nd place.

AzureJazzMan
01-03-2008, 02:10 PM
I can only hope, that KW is cooking something else up to counter this trade. One of the main things, that OG kept stressing, was speed, walks, sacrifices and defense. The only thing that Swisher adds, is walks, and OBP. He isn't any sort of threat on the basepaths.

Assuming that nothing else is coming...We now are back playing Post to Post and Station to Station...Without any farm system left.

I sincerely hope that there is more on the way here.

It's Dankerific
01-03-2008, 02:10 PM
So Oakland thought 4 of our minor leaguers were worth acquiring. why didnt we get Haren instead???

Gio
DLS
Sweeney
Carter

Pitching first... right

Late 80's, HERE WE COME

getonbckthr
01-03-2008, 02:11 PM
I find it funny Kenny talks crazy about BMAC he turns him into 3 more pitchers 1 in Danks who is just as good if not better than MAC and 2 others where if they turn into anything its gravy. He then can't stop talking about GIO. He combined with a bust prospect outfielder and a solid pitching propsect turns into a really good, young entering his prime at about 30-40% the market rate outfielder. If the Sox would have brought Gio up in September this deal might not have happened because Gio could have gone Arnie Munoz on us. The question is who's the next prospect that Kenny just "sparkles" about?

spiffie
01-03-2008, 02:11 PM
I can't back it with stats.............but I have a gut feeling this, and the other moves made this offseason are going to work out.

I don't quite get the folks who look at this team as a hopeless case, and that the Cell will be a ghosttown this season.

I think everyone is going to be pleasantly surpised in 2008.
Please tell me you like to back up your gut feelings with large wagers against sad pessimists like myself...:tongue:

getonbckthr
01-03-2008, 02:11 PM
I can only hope, that KW is cooking something else up to counter this trade. One of the main things, that OG kept stressing, was speed, walks, sacrifices and defense. The only thing that Swisher adds, is walks, and OBP. He isn't any sort of threat on the basepaths.

Assuming that nothing else is coming...We now are back playing Post to Post and Station to Station...Without any farm system left.

I sincerely hope that there is more on the way here.
Swisher isn't slow Oakland just doesn't believe in stolen bases.

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 02:12 PM
Actually Swisher's OPS took a 31 point drop last year. His OBP has gone up each season, but his SLG has been around 450 2 of 3 years, with one bump in 2006 when he had basically one gigantic month that pushed his numbers up (in April that year he had a SLG of 738 and hit 10 of his 31 homers that month). Also, he's spent much of his career in RF or 1B. Only 61 of his 493 games have been in CF, so while he might technically be able to play CF, how well he can play it seems to be a question mark.

Sure, but he played most of them last year. He may not be a long term CF solution, but he can handle it this year and move to RF after Dye leaves or moves to DH (depends on whether Thome is here in 2009).

Again, this team is now better this coming season, still has at least one trade piece left to move (Crede) and is set to be very affordable in 2009 and beyond which will free up money to sign pitching or fill other holes.

Better, younger and more affordable after next year sounds like a great plan.

People were griping about the lack of young position talent on the team in the minors, well, KW fixed that these past two years. It's going to depend a lot on how the young pitching develops, but KW should have money to spend in 2009 and beyond even if he signs Cabrera to a long term deal.

Again, potential lineup in 2009...

Rameriz CF
Cabrera SS
Swisher RF
Konerko 1B
Dye DH
Fields 3B
Quentin LF
AJ C
Richar 2B

That's a boatload of young talent with solid speed and very solid OBP with no shortage of power and it's interchangeable if certain players prove more suited to move up in the lineup. I really don't know whether Swisher bats 3rd or lower, but given that Quentin, Richar, Rameriz or Fields could devlop into a 3rd slot hitter, I just don't see it as an issue...

chaerulez
01-03-2008, 02:12 PM
While I certainly like the idea of getting Swisher, a guy with pop and high OBP, I think adding DLS was a bit much. Gio and Sweeney, that's fine, but another top pitching prospect? I wouldn't have minded Broadway or a mid level prospect, but we lost our top two pitching prospects.

I think this spells the end for Crede and possibly PK. I don't know what teams are interested in him though. The Rangers are a pretty stupid organization and always seem to trade for hitters they don't need, maybe we can get Kinsler and Benoit out of them.

Mickster
01-03-2008, 02:12 PM
I will assure you that Fields will not be playing leftfield for the Sox..The sox will trade Crede during ST or after a few weeks into the season proving he can still play...As for the 2nd base problem, Richar is our guy and Ramirez will start in AAA The sox are better off giving the job to Richar and to know what your gettin gout of Uribe. Kiss Uribe goodbye.

For some reason, I don't think it will be easy to get rid of Crede during spring training. He hasn't played in a year and I have a hard time believing that he will light up the world in ST. Also, I honestly don't think we'll be able to get that much for him. I would prefer to keep him and his defense at 3rd for one more year and let him walk while getting compensatory picks.

As for Uribe, I'd love to kiss him goodbye - I just don't think there will be any GM stupid enough to pay him $4.5M.

TomBradley72
01-03-2008, 02:12 PM
I don't know who is going to leadoff, and that is a problem, but overall I like the team to compete right now lineup-wise.

Quentin
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Swisher
Fields/Crede
Pierzynski
Ramirez/Ozuna/Uribe/Richar


And many would argue there already was "Zero" farm system. Sweeney wasn't showing much but how to strike-out looking good. The pitching prospects hurt, but you gotta give something to get something.

Quentin has done nothing in the majors, Thome hits <.200 against lefties, Swisher would have to be one of the worst defensive CFs in baseball, Fields' defense is very suspect, no real 2B to speak of.

This is like the old days...if EVERYTHING breaks our way...we MIGHT contend!

All we need now is Jim Fregosi back as manager.

What's not to like?

champagne030
01-03-2008, 02:12 PM
It was those two(Gonzalez and Sweeney plus De Los Santos).:


The White Sox have acquired switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for three minor league players, pitcher Gio Gonzalez, pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney. The trade was announced Thursday afternoon by Kenny Williams, White Sox general manager and senior vice president.



:mg::bs::help::thud:

Oh Kenny, what have you done???

DSpivack
01-03-2008, 02:12 PM
So Oakland thought 4 of our minor leaguers were worth acquiring. why didnt we get Haren instead???

Gio
DLS
Sweeney
Carter

Pitching first... right

Late 80's, HERE WE COME

Late 80s, more like early 00s. Station-to-station baseball, lots of power, little speed on the basepaths, two or so good starters, question marks after that. Sounds like a .500 team to me.

spiffie
01-03-2008, 02:13 PM
So do we speculate what happens to Swisher's numbers now that he's away from the chem lab that is the Bay Area, or is that speculation only done on players who aren't acquired by us?

veeter
01-03-2008, 02:14 PM
So we're getting a guy who can play CF with a career OPS of .825 which has been going up the last few years just as he enters his prime and is signed all the way through said prime at a very reasonable rate given the state of the current market.

Should Owens or Anderson develop, Swisher can bump over to RF and Dye can go to DH (of Thome is gone next year) or LF (if Quentin doesn't work out).

In theory, if KW is correct, then in a few years, the Sox are going to have Quentin, Rameriz and Swisher in the OF, Fields, Richar Cabrera and PK on the infield with AJ catching and possibly Dye at DH.

If KW is right about Richar, Rameriz and Quentin that team won't completely blow.

Sign Cabrera NOW, KW...Very good points. I just told my Dad the same thing about Cabrera. Remember guys, the Sox have spent no money this off season. With a promising, albeit third place finish this year, the Sox will have gobs of money to spend next off-season. That money burning a hole in KW's pocket could go to a stud free-agent pitcher. I'll check the list for 2009 free agents.

jenn2080
01-03-2008, 02:14 PM
At least we still have Juan Uribe

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 02:14 PM
Now that I'm done venting, I will say that I do like Swisher, but this move is not intelligent. I also believe he is/will be a good player.. but it doesn't help us THAT much because comparatively, we lost SO much, IMO. He's not a true CF, but (with albeit somewhat limited knowledge of his D - perhaps someone in the bay area could comment on this) I'm guessing is similar to Rowand defensively?? He's definitely a grinder, but we still have no true lead-off hitter either. I think the correct move would be to let Owens and BA battle it out for the starting job and put Swisher in LF. However, that makes Quentin worthless. I just don't understand the move... especially for the cost. One good thing is that he's not a FA until 2011.

All valid points. I guess the reason I am not initially upset by this move is that prospects in baseball rarely live up to their hype. Gavin Floyd had more hype than Gio and DLS combined a few years ago and now most people at WSI would trade him for a churro. Swisher can hit in the big leagues.

The questions for the 2008 White Sox are:

1. Will the pitching hold up?
2. Where do we see the Toriiiii/Rowand money spent?

skottyj242
01-03-2008, 02:14 PM
I see this team as a 94 win team, eight of those wins because of Toby Hall alone.

schmitty9800
01-03-2008, 02:15 PM
I am having a crappy day and this was probably the last news I wanted to hear. Gio and Sweeney would've been a bad deal, but this is even worse.

Gio had a 185/58 K/BB ratio, 1.15 WHIP, and a 3.18 ERA last year in AA :(

Cuck the Fubs
01-03-2008, 02:15 PM
So Oakland thought 4 of our minor leaguers were worth acquiring. why didnt we get Haren instead???

Gio
DLS
Sweeney
Carter

Pitching first... right

Late 80's, HERE WE COME

None of those guys showed anything at the MLB level. Haren for unproven talent would have been a dream.

This is a good deal.........

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 02:16 PM
So do we speculate what happens to Swisher's numbers now that he's away from the chem lab that is the Bay Area, or is that speculation only done on players who aren't acquired by us?

I say we speculate what happens to his numbers now that hes out of the pithcers park in Oakland and into a very friendly U.S. Cellular Field.

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 02:16 PM
Swisher isn't slow Oakland just doesn't believe in stolen bases.
Maybe he has a good speed and go from first to third...but...I'm not expecting anything more than two or three SBs out of the guy...I really think this is a bad trade. Yes he gives us OBP, but he costs a lot of pitching and pitching is the name of the game.

esbrechtel
01-03-2008, 02:16 PM
Sure, but he played most of them last year. He may not be a long term CF solution, but he can handle it this year and move to RF after Dye leaves or moves to DH (depends on whether Thome is here in 2009).

Again, this team is now better this coming season, still has at least one trade piece left to move (Crede) and is set to be very affordable in 2009 and beyond which will free up money to sign pitching or fill other holes.

Better, younger and more affordable after next year sounds like a great plan.

People were griping about the lack of young position talent on the team in the minors, well, KW fixed that these past two years. It's going to depend a lot on how the young pitching develops, but KW should have money to spend in 2009 and beyond even if he signs Cabrera to a long term deal.

Again, potential lineup in 2009...

Rameriz CF
Cabrera SS
Swisher RF
Konerko 1B
Dye DH
Fields 3B
Quentin LF
AJ C
Richar 2B

That's a boatload of young talent with solid speed and very solid OBP with no shortage of power and it's interchangeable if certain players prove more suited to move up in the lineup. I really don't know whether Swisher bats 3rd or lower, but given that Quentin, Richar, Rameriz or Fields could devlop into a 3rd slot hitter, I just don't see it as an issue...

You are exactly right the major league team has some good talent in the field and looks great in 2009 You have to give something to get something Swisher is a steal when it comes to contract and is signed THROUGH his prime! I am gonna wait to pass judgement until '08 is over...

veeter
01-03-2008, 02:16 PM
Getting OWNED by Billy Beane again.

Seems like a big price to pay for Nick Swisher but, in Sweeney's case, I think it was quite obvious that the White Sox were not going to give him a chance unless he really knocked OG's and KW's socks off. If they were, he would have been a call-up late in '07.

And Gio seems to be a piece KW has no clue what he wants to do with. Part of the trade for Thome, traded back for him, made it known to everyone in the media that he was the piece he didn't want to trade away originally, but then trades him away again for Swisher :rolleyes:?Refresh my memeory on how Kenny got "owned" by Beane.

Bucky F. Dent
01-03-2008, 02:16 PM
I think this helps the major league lineup in the short term, but from the long view there is a great deal of work to be done.

The rest of our deals this winter need to be made for pitchers, young, talented, pitchers.

Jollyroger2
01-03-2008, 02:17 PM
Sure, but he played most of them last year. He may not be a long term CF solution, but he can handle it this year and move to RF after Dye leaves or moves to DH (depends on whether Thome is here in 2009).

Again, this team is now better this coming season, still has at least one trade piece left to move (Crede) and is set to be very affordable in 2009 and beyond which will free up money to sign pitching or fill other holes.

Better, younger and more affordable after next year sounds like a great plan.

People were griping about the lack of young position talent on the team in the minors, well, KW fixed that these past two years. It's going to depend a lot on how the young pitching develops, but KW should have money to spend in 2009 and beyond even if he signs Cabrera to a long term deal.

Again, potential lineup in 2009...

Rameriz CF
Cabrera SS
Swisher RF
Konerko 1B
Dye DH
Fields 3B
Quentin LF
AJ C
Richar 2B

That's a boatload of young talent with solid speed and very solid OBP with no shortage of power and it's interchangeable if certain players prove more suited to move up in the lineup. I really don't know whether Swisher bats 3rd or lower, but given that Quentin, Richar, Rameriz or Fields could devlop into a 3rd slot hitter, I just don't see it as an issue...

Agreed. I like the trade so far.

It's Dankerific
01-03-2008, 02:17 PM
As for Uribe, I'd love to kiss him goodbye - I just don't think there will be any GM stupid enough to pay him $4.5M.

You think with giving up those prospects, we coulda sent him along too.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:17 PM
I see this team as a 94 win team, eight of those wins because of Toby Hall alone.
Not in this divison

schmitty9800
01-03-2008, 02:17 PM
All valid points. I guess the reason I am not initially upset by this move is that prospects in baseball rarely live up to their hype. Gavin Floyd had more hype than Gio and DLS combined a few years ago and now most people at WSI would trade him for a churro. Swisher can hit in the big leagues. Gio and DLS had way better performances in the minors than Floyd.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:18 PM
You think with giving up those prospects, we coulda sent him along too.
We should of Done Uribe, Sweeney, Egbert and cash(for Uribe) for Swisher.

TomBradley72
01-03-2008, 02:18 PM
Very good points. I just told my Dad the same thing about Cabrera. Remember guys, the Sox have spent no money this off season. With a promising, albeit third place finish this year, the Sox will have gobs of money to spend next off-season. That money burning a hole in KW's pocket could go to a stud free-agent pitcher. I'll check the list for 2009 free agents.

What moves during the KW/JR era would lead you to believe we will sign a top tier FA starting pitcher? David Wells?

Corlose 15
01-03-2008, 02:19 PM
I guess if you're thrilled about mediocrity, that's awesome depth.

So far this offseason here's what we've done:

Traded our #2-3 starter for a SS after re-upping our own.
Traded a 1B prospect for a guy that's known for being a great minor leaguer before hurting himself in Arizona. The 1B prospect later was involved in a deal for a top tier Starter (Haren).
Traded away our top three prospects for a guy known for his hair more than his bat, and his appearance in a book more than an appearance at the plate.

Sounds like Pink Slip Hunting Season is now in session...

Are you serious?

They traded Garland, their number 3 starter for a gold glove shortstop who is also good offensively. They re-upped Uribe because they had not other choice. It would've been pretty difficult trying to get fair value for a SS in a trade when you had Andy Gonzalez as your only backup plan.

Why exactly are you *****ing about the Carter trade? What has he done? so the fact that he was included in a deal with FIVE OTHER PLAYERS for Haren means what? Quentin has done phenomenal in the minors and did well 2 years ago in his callup. Last year he was hurt. Why don't you see him play for a bit before you have a total breakdown. means what?

As for Swisher, how about you actually give him a little bit of credit? Yes his average is a bit low but his OBP was .381 last year, he hit 22 HR with 78 RBI, destroys LHP, walked 100 times last year and can play all three outfield positions as well as back up Paulie at 1B. Did the Sox give up more than I would've liked? Yes. But good god, its not like they traded these three players for Lyle Mouton. :rolleyes:

Fenway
01-03-2008, 02:19 PM
A's loading up for Cisco Field

On the surface good deal for both clubs.

chaerulez
01-03-2008, 02:19 PM
So Oakland thought 4 of our minor leaguers were worth acquiring. why didnt we get Haren instead???

Gio
DLS
Sweeney
Carter

Pitching first... right

Late 80's, HERE WE COME

That's a really good point. Those four should've been able to get Haren and a rotation of Burhele-Haren-Vazquez-Danks for the next three years would've been great.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:19 PM
What moves during the KW/JR era would lead you to believe we will sign a top tier FA starting pitcher? David Wells?
Bartolo Colon, Or he might of been a trade not for surre.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:19 PM
That's a really good point. Those four should've been able to get Haren and a rotation of Burhele-Haren-Vazquez-Danks for the next three years would've been great.
dont foreget to have Contreras battling Floyd for the #5 spot this year.

russ99
01-03-2008, 02:20 PM
Considering the Sox track record on pitching prospects, DeLosSantos isn't an enormous loss, and he's at least 2 years away.

We all know Sweeney will be decent but not great, and dealing Gio unfortunately needed to be done to get a player like Swisher.

Still, we got the best player in this deal, and usually that's who wins.

This is a decent deal for now, but may handcuff Kenny's dealings next offseason.

StepsInSC
01-03-2008, 02:20 PM
That would of been real niiiice! This trade will make some great fodder on the boards for the coming weekend.

I really do like Swisher, and think he will be a Great player on the Sox for years to come, even if I dont like what we gave up for him. He has the right attitude, style, and skills. I do wonder if this will be a precursor to something else. Hard to visualize Paulie getting traded, but stranger things have happened.

LF: Quentin, Swisher, Owens, Ozuna
CF: Owens, Swisher, Ramirez??, BA??
RF: Dye, Swisher, Quentin
1B: Paulie, Swisher, Dye
DH: Thome, Paulie, Dye, Swisher

So is this a good sign of roster depth, or a logjam of players? Would be nice to get another pitcher ... or two. Curious to see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.



:jerry
::drools...:: "mmmmm.......think of all that delicious tinkering potential.....mmmmmm" ::drools::

MrX
01-03-2008, 02:20 PM
That money burning a hole in KW's pocket could go to a stud free-agent pitcher. I'll check the list for 2009 free agents.
They could have all the money in the world, as long as they offer 3 or 4 years they won't get the top guys.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 02:21 PM
Gio and DLS had way better performances in the minors than Floyd.

My point was the hype behind prospects rarely is ever realized. I could go and find numerous guys who put up similar or better numbers Gio and DLS who never amounted to a damn thing in MLB. That's why they are prospects. Sure, they could both turn out to be world-beaters, but the chance of that is extremely unlikely.

spiffie
01-03-2008, 02:21 PM
Sure, but he played most of them last year. He may not be a long term CF solution, but he can handle it this year and move to RF after Dye leaves or moves to DH (depends on whether Thome is here in 2009).

Again, this team is now better this coming season, still has at least one trade piece left to move (Crede) and is set to be very affordable in 2009 and beyond which will free up money to sign pitching or fill other holes.

Better, younger and more affordable after next year sounds like a great plan.

People were griping about the lack of young position talent on the team in the minors, well, KW fixed that these past two years. It's going to depend a lot on how the young pitching develops, but KW should have money to spend in 2009 and beyond even if he signs Cabrera to a long term deal.

Again, potential lineup in 2009...

Rameriz CF
Cabrera SS
Swisher RF
Konerko 1B
Dye DH
Fields 3B
Quentin LF
AJ C
Richar 2B

That's a boatload of young talent with solid speed and very solid OBP with no shortage of power and it's interchangeable if certain players prove more suited to move up in the lineup. I really don't know whether Swisher bats 3rd or lower, but given that Quentin, Richar, Rameriz or Fields could devlop into a 3rd slot hitter, I just don't see it as an issue...
The problem is that lineup is great if you assume the best. But there's 4 holes in that lineup that are coin flips. Richar has 1/2 season in the majors. Ramirez has never played a major league game. Fields still has to show he can do more than just hit 30 HR. Quentin is in many ways a bust who the Sox are hoping can redeem himself. And that says nothing of the fact that outside of Buehrle the entire 2009 rotation starts with the hit or miss Javy and goes downward from there in terms of dependability.

I don't mind Swisher. He seems like a decent player who will be useful. But to give up basically your last 3 prospects worth anything for him, and be pretty much barren on the farm seems like a poor use of resources. At this point we have no one who any reasonably observer would look at and say "this guy should be a good-very good MLB player" in the next 2 years. They're all either still years away like Poreda, or fringe prospects like Broadway and Egbert. Yes, we'll have money to spend, but the team has made clear it does not like to spend too much or to go long-term on anyone compared to what the rest of the league does, so I'm not sure that FA can be more than hole plugging for this team.

Of course, all of this could be worth it just because it surely puts the final nail in the Brian Anderson fan club's coffin, and that outpouring of rage and anger when he finally gets moved ought to be highly entertaining.

chaerulez
01-03-2008, 02:21 PM
None of those guys showed anything at the MLB level. Haren for unproven talent would have been a dream.

This is a good deal.........

Yeah because the guys the D-Backs traded were so proven.

No wait, they were all prospects.

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Considering the Sox track record on pitching prospects, DeLosSantos isn't an enormous loss, and he's at least 2 years away.

We all know Sweeney will be decent but not great, and dealing Gio unfortunately needed to be done to get a player like Swisher.

Still, we got the best player in this deal, and usually that's who wins.

This is a decent deal for now, but may handcuff Kenny's dealings next offseason.
You can't say we got the best player out of the deal...it's too early to tell. Sweeney could turn into a guy that bats .290 and hits 20 homers for Oakland and then what ever Gio and Faustino do is just a bigger plus and a bigger steal in the trade. As of now he's the best player but you have to give it a few years before you can say that.

MrX
01-03-2008, 02:23 PM
Bartolo Colon, Or he might of been a trade not for surre.
He was acquired via trade

jabrch
01-03-2008, 02:23 PM
So do we speculate what happens to Swisher's numbers now that he's away from the chem lab that is the Bay Area, or is that speculation only done on players who aren't acquired by us?

Well said...

But it cuts both ways - he's out of the chem lab, but he is also leaving a very pitcher friendly park. On the bright side, I see some upside in his numbers at USCF.

I still don't like giving up Gio and DLS - but I still trust KW.

TomBradley72
01-03-2008, 02:23 PM
They could have all the money in the world, as long as they offer 3 or 4 years they won't get the top guys.

And as long as none of the top FA's are represented by Boras. Other than that, I like our chances.

Lukin13
01-03-2008, 02:24 PM
I remember looking through all of the current contracts in the MLB a few weeks ago and saying that Swisher was one of the most valuable veteran players in the league based on the entire package.

I just hope he isn't our everyday CF.

I can understand how some people are upset, I am a HUGE Swisher/Moneyball guy and I am not even certain this was the right deal for the Sox. It is hard to argue the short term though when you add such and all around offensive monster to your lineup in exchange for NO ONE from our current starting lineup.

jabrch
01-03-2008, 02:25 PM
How much would it cost to get Bedard and Roberts from Baltimore?

Fields + Richar + Owens + Danks?

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:25 PM
And as long as none of the top FA's are represented by Boras. Other than that, I like our chances.
If there were no Boras then no players would be getting the 18 mill per year when coming off a crappy year (Andruw Jones)

IceczMan
01-03-2008, 02:25 PM
I hope that Gavin Floyd has a great season next year and our pitching staff remains healthy throughout the season, what happens though if Floyd can't get anyone out or another starter goes down somewhere along the season? With Garland, Gio, DLS, and even Phillips out of the system, who would be the next pitchers in line? Broadway? Haeger?

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 02:26 PM
Refresh my memeory on how Kenny got "owned" by Beane.
:bkoch:
Forgotten about me??

DSpivack
01-03-2008, 02:26 PM
How much would it cost to get Bedard and Roberts from Baltimore?

Fields + Richar + Owens + Danks?

I'm sure it starts with Fields and Danks, but no way is that package enough for the O's.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 02:26 PM
How much would it cost to get Bedard and Roberts from Baltimore?

Fields + Richar + Owens + Danks?

This should be in teal...

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 02:27 PM
I hope that Gavin Floyd has a great season next year and our pitching staff remains healthy throughout the season, what happens though if Floyd can't get anyone out or another starter goes down somewhere along the season? With Garland, Gio, DLS, and even Phillips out of the system, who would be the next pitchers in line? Broadway? Haeger?

Gio, DLS and Philips were never the first option to fill in for an injured or faltering starter. DLS wouldn't be an option for at least 2 years. Gio was probably 4th or so on the replacement starter depth chart.

kjhanson
01-03-2008, 02:28 PM
We are a much better baseball team for 2008 right now than we were a couple hours ago. I don't think anyone will argue with that. We traded away three guys who were going to make 0 impact over the next 162 games.

Anything beyond that though, I really don't know. Right now I'm focusing on '08, which as of right now is going to be a lot better season than it was shaping up to be just moments ago.

spiffie
01-03-2008, 02:28 PM
Well said...

But it cuts both ways - he's out of the chem lab, but he is also leaving a very pitcher friendly park. On the bright side, I see some upside in his numbers at USCF.

I still don't like giving up Gio and DLS - but I still trust KW.
FWIW his road splits aren't all that dramatically different. For his career he has an 840 OPS away, and an 808 OPS at home.

I just feel like we're moving farther and farther away from what we've seen win titles. Pitching, defense, speed (not just SB, but speed). Instead we have another corner OF/1B we're hoping to stick in CF, we are now basically praying this exact group of five guys comes through because we have nothing in wait behind them, and we've added a guy who walks a ton, and isn't part of the WSI mantra that high BB rate guys aren't as good as high BA guys because they fail against good pitchers who don't give up walks?

ChiWavDave
01-03-2008, 02:28 PM
Here's my question for those of you with far deeper and wider baseball acumen than I have. I'm sure the statistics are out there if somebody digs deep enough.

What are the odds that either Gio or DLS win 100 games in the major leagues in their careers? 1 in 20? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?

Honestly what are the odds that Hughes or Joba or Buckholtz or Ellsbury win 100 games in their careers? Maybe 1 of them? And they would be off the charts in prospectville compared to Gio and DLS?

I can't say whether this is the right deal or not for the sox, but history tells us time and time again that starting pitchers in the major leagues are a rare breed, and 9 times out of 10 your always better off trading pitching prospects for major league ready talent with a track record.

Dave

veeter
01-03-2008, 02:28 PM
:bkoch:
Forgotten about me??No. I didn't forget about Neil Cotts either, who helped hoist the WORLD SERIES CHAMPION trophy!!!!!!!

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 02:29 PM
:bkoch:
Forgotten about me??

Who did we give up for Koch and wasn't his failure mostly due to some weird disease? (hindsight I know...)

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 02:29 PM
I'm sure it starts with Fields and Danks, but no way is that package enough for the O's.
And now with Gio and DLS gone...I'm not sure we can afford to trade Danks.

PaleHoser
01-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Gave up too much of a depleted farm system.

This off-season reminds me way too much of the Hawk Harrelson era. Trades for the sake of trades with no sense of direction.

Brian Roberts won't wear white on the Southside, ever. The Sox have publicly announced that it is against club policy to ever acquire anyone linked to performance enhancing drugs.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Here's my question for those of you with far deeper and wider baseball acumen than I have. I'm sure the statistics are out there if somebody digs deep enough.

What are the odds that either Gio or DLS win 100 games in the major leagues in their careers? 1 in 20? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?

Honestly what are the odds that Hughes or Joba or Buckholtz or Ellsbury win 100 games in their careers? Maybe 1 of them? And they would be off the charts in prospectville compared to Gio and DLS?

I can't say whether this is the right deal or not for the sox, but history tells us time and time again that starting pitchers in the major leagues are a rare breed, and 9 times out of 10 your always better off trading pitching prospects for major league ready talent with a track record.

Dave

For him I'd say 1 in 1000000000000000

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Who did we give up for Koch and wasn't his failure mostly due to some weird disease? (hindsight I know...)
Keith Foulke...his down fall wasn't totally related to his disease, it was more or less that he mysteriously lost a lot of speed off of his fastball.

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 02:31 PM
The Sox have publicly announced that it is against club policy to ever acquire anyone linked to performance enhancing drugs.

I missed this. Do you have a link?

ilsox7
01-03-2008, 02:32 PM
Keith Foulke...his down fall wasn't totally related to his disease, it was more or less that he mysteriously lost a lot of speed off of his fastball.

He was talking about Koch's demise being directly related to a rare disease he had.

ChiWavDave
01-03-2008, 02:32 PM
For him I'd say 1 in 1000000000000000


Good catch, brain cramp... You get the gist... lol

gogosox16
01-03-2008, 02:32 PM
Here's my question for those of you with far deeper and wider baseball acumen than I have. I'm sure the statistics are out there if somebody digs deep enough.

What are the odds that either Gio or DLS win 100 games in the major leagues in their careers? 1 in 20? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?

Honestly what are the odds that Hughes or Joba or Buckholtz or Ellsbury win 100 games in their careers? Maybe 1 of them? And they would be off the charts in prospectville compared to Gio and DLS?

I can't say whether this is the right deal or not for the sox, but history tells us time and time again that starting pitchers in the major leagues are a rare breed, and 9 times out of 10 your always better off trading pitching prospects for major league ready talent with a track record.

Dave
If Ellsbury wins 100 games in his career I will pay everyone 1,000 bucks

DumpJerry
01-03-2008, 02:32 PM
My point was the hype behind prospects rarely is ever realized. I could go and find numerous guys who put up similar or better numbers Gio and DLS who never amounted to a damn thing in MLB. That's why they are prospects. Sure, they could both turn out to be world-beaters, but the chance of that is extremely unlikely.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner, folks!

AWhiteSoxinNJ
01-03-2008, 02:32 PM
What the heck is wrong with you people. I love the deal!

Sweeney is almost as overrated as BA was. DLS maybe something good, but he's 3 years away from even getting a crack at the majors. One bad pitch and he becomes your worst prospect. And there is a reason Gio is getting passed around like....you get the point.

Swisher will bat 2nd and play CF. Gavin Floyd will NOT being our starting rotation, trust me on this. I can't wait till July when your all eating crow.

oeo
01-03-2008, 02:33 PM
What the ****? Why?? :?:

This move sucks. Kenny should have just kept the team as it was.

Save McCuddy's
01-03-2008, 02:33 PM
Is it a good thing that we hid Sweeney (only 45Ab's) and gave all that time to Erstad/Pods when we were hopelessly out of it, or should we have found something out about him that you can't possibly in 45 freaking at bats?

voodoochile
01-03-2008, 02:33 PM
Keith Foulke...his down fall wasn't totally related to his disease, it was more or less that he mysteriously lost a lot of speed off of his fastball.

Meh... hardly getting owned especially when you factor in the Neil Cotts part of the trade. Foulke never was worth the money he wanted...

PaleHoser
01-03-2008, 02:33 PM
Who did we give up for Koch and wasn't his failure mostly due to some weird disease? (hindsight I know...)

Keith Foulke.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 02:33 PM
Good catch, brain cramp... You get the gist... lol

Sorry, just bustin chops. :D:

Foulke You
01-03-2008, 02:33 PM
it was more or less that he mysteriously lost a lot of speed off of his fastball.
His loss of velocity could have directly been effected by his disease. Besides a skin malady, one of the symptoms of his condition is fatigue and loss of strength. Kenny Williams couldn't have possibly known Koch was ill because Billy himself didn't know about it at the time.

Madvora
01-03-2008, 02:34 PM
The Sox have publicly announced that it is against club policy to ever acquire anyone linked to performance enhancing drugs.
Sorry, but I think you're out of your mind.

Marqhead
01-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Good catch, brain cramp... You get the gist... lol

Just bustin' chops. :D:

spiffie
01-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Gavin Floyd will NOT being our starting rotation, trust me on this. I can't wait till July when your all eating crow.
Were you near a baggage claim when you learned this?

beasly213
01-03-2008, 02:34 PM
With everyone demanding that we shouldn't have had to give up so much for Swisher you guys have to realize that money plays a huge part in baseball trades along with the players.

I think someone mentioned it before but the fact that Swisher is relativly cheap (27 mil for 5 years i think) is huge.

The sox are trying to win RIGHT NOW. The need a proven MLB CF out there. Plus a guy who will stay healthy and Swisher is also pretty young.

I don't mind this trade as I don't mind many trades that involve prospects because you're odds are better if you are trading the prospects rather than receiving them. I can't recall many times of Kenny getting burned on trading a prospect (Don't say Chris Young cause that guy would drive all you nuts if he were on the Sox with his all or nothing approach)

For right now I like the trade and we'll see what he does about the Crede/Fields situation. I'm hoping for a 2nd baseman!

chisoxmike
01-03-2008, 02:35 PM
Under the radar.



In Kenny We Trust.





Swisher is a grinder.




Just like '05.





Low risk, high reward.

oeo
01-03-2008, 02:35 PM
Keith Foulke.

Yeah, the whining little ***** wanted to start.