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the1tab
12-29-2007, 11:21 PM
There have been a lot of threads on WSI about what Kenny should do to "fix the team" and how he should handle spending his money. I understand that Kenny said a few things that he has yet to back up in the court of public opinion (2007 "didn't sit well" and "won't happen again"), but I wondered this evening about what the age and financial state of the White Sox really is.

Considering the information I pulled together from a couple of websites (noted at the bottom of this post), KW is in a really unique position. If you look at the dollars invested in the Sox pitching staff, and the ages of our pitchers... Old Man Contreras is the only P on the roster over 31 on Opening Day. Also, every P on the staff is signed thru 2009.

However, consider the veteran position players for the team: only 3, including the DH, are signed fully after this coming season. If you consider that AJ and Konerko are the only two veterans that could, in all likelyhood, still be on the South Side after 2009, let me pose this question:

What would you do if you were KW? How do you rebuild when the contracts are in a ladder that he's forced to put a new roster on the diamond? And where do you start a youth movement when you have a lion's share of your money going to guys that are still here for one or two more years?

Looking back at this offseason, I'm not sure, in light of the info below, that giving a multiyear contract to someone like Torii Hunter would have been a great idea. Looking down the road at 2010, what good would us giving a 4 or 5 year deal to a 32 year old have been? We're looking at a lineup of Josh Fields, who will be 26, Owens will be 28, Richar will be 25, Quentin will be 26... and Hunter would be 33? Kenny is in a position to be an even larger player in the market in the next 2, 3 years than he has been this winter, and in light of that's below I'm actually thankful he didn't throw some money around. While having Torii Hunter patroling CF would have been nice, i'mnot sure it makes the most sense now.

Thoughts?
__________________________________________________ _______________

Jim Thome age: 37 08 salary: $14m signed thru 08 (club option for 09)
Paul Konerko age: 32 08 salary: $12m signed thru 10
Jermaine Dye age: 34 08 salary: $9.5m signed thru 09 (mutual option for 10)
Orlando Cabrera age: 33 08 salary: $9m FA after 08
AJ Pierzinski age: 31 08 salary: $5.5m signed thru 10
Joe Crede age: 29 (30 on April 26) 08 salary: $4.9m FA after 08
Juan Uribe age: 29 08 salary: $4.5m FA after 08
Toby Hall age: 32 08 salary: $1.75m signed thru 08 (club option for 09)
Pablo Ozuna age: 33 08 salary: $1.25m signed thru 08 (club option for 09)
Alexei Ramirez age: 26? 08 salary: $? signed thru 11

Mark Buehrle age: 29 08 salary: $14m signed thru 2011
Javier Vazquez age: 31 08 salary: $11.5m signed thru 10
Jose Contreras age: TBD 08 salary: $10m signed thru 09
Scott Linebrink age: 31 08 salary: $4m signed thru 11
Mike MacDougal age: 31 08 salary: $1.9m signed thru 09 (club option for 10)
Matt Thornton age: 31 08 salary: $875k signed thru 09 (club options for 10 & 11)

The following players are under rookie contracts still w/ annual re-signing options:
Bobby Jenks age: 27
John Danks age: 22 (23 on April 15)
Nick Massett age: 25
David Aardsma age: 26
Andrew Sisco age: 25
Gavin Floyd age: 25

Josh Fields age: 25
Carlos Quentin age: 25
Jerry Owens age: 27
Danny Richar age: 24
Brian Anderson age: 26

** ages are as of Opening Day 2008

the1tab
12-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Sorry. here's the great resource I used to look at the contracts:

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

I got the ages thru ESPN.com

DumpJerry
12-30-2007, 10:54 AM
If I were Kenny, I'd hypnotize all the other 29 GM's into giving me their top players for low A players.

I would then check on WSI every hour to see what I should do next.

Heck, I'd let the posters of WSI do the negotiating for me.

soxfan26
12-30-2007, 11:02 AM
If I were Kenny, I'd hypnotize all the other 29 GM's into giving me their top players for low A players.

I would then check on WSI every hour to see what I should do next.

Heck, I'd let the posters of WSI do the negotiating for me.

If I were Kenny I'd only enlist the help of posters with over 1,000 posts in "What's the Score?" who also have mlbtraderumors.com in their favorites.

ZombieRob
12-30-2007, 12:47 PM
Think at this point K.W can use all the help he can get.:smile:

SoxNation05
12-30-2007, 06:19 PM
There have been a lot of threads on WSI about what Kenny should do to "fix the team" and how he should handle spending his money. I understand that Kenny said a few things that he has yet to back up in the court of public opinion (2007 "didn't sit well" and "won't happen again"), but I wondered this evening about what the age and financial state of the White Sox really is.

Considering the information I pulled together from a couple of websites (noted at the bottom of this post), KW is in a really unique position. If you look at the dollars invested in the Sox pitching staff, and the ages of our pitchers... Old Man Contreras is the only P on the roster over 31 on Opening Day. Also, every P on the staff is signed thru 2009.

However, consider the veteran position players for the team: only 3, including the DH, are signed fully after this coming season. If you consider that AJ and Konerko are the only two veterans that could, in all likelyhood, still be on the South Side after 2009, let me pose this question:

What would you do if you were KW? How do you rebuild when the contracts are in a ladder that he's forced to put a new roster on the diamond? And where do you start a youth movement when you have a lion's share of your money going to guys that are still here for one or two more years?

Looking back at this offseason, I'm not sure, in light of the info below, that giving a multiyear contract to someone like Torii Hunter would have been a great idea. Looking down the road at 2010, what good would us giving a 4 or 5 year deal to a 32 year old have been? We're looking at a lineup of Josh Fields, who will be 26, Owens will be 28, Richar will be 25, Quentin will be 26... and Hunter would be 33? Kenny is in a position to be an even larger player in the market in the next 2, 3 years than he has been this winter, and in light of that's below I'm actually thankful he didn't throw some money around. While having Torii Hunter patroling CF would have been nice, i'mnot sure it makes the most sense now.

Thoughts?
__________________________________________________ _______________

Jim Thome age: 37 08 salary: $14m signed thru 08 (club option for 09)
Paul Konerko age: 32 08 salary: $12m signed thru 10
Jermaine Dye age: 34 08 salary: $9.5m signed thru 09 (mutual option for 10)
Orlando Cabrera age: 33 08 salary: $9m FA after 08
AJ Pierzinski age: 31 08 salary: $5.5m signed thru 10
Joe Crede age: 29 (30 on April 26) 08 salary: $4.9m FA after 08
Juan Uribe age: 29 08 salary: $4.5m FA after 08
Toby Hall age: 32 08 salary: $1.75m signed thru 08 (club option for 09)
Pablo Ozuna age: 33 08 salary: $1.25m signed thru 08 (club option for 09)
Alexei Ramirez age: 26? 08 salary: $? signed thru 11

Mark Buehrle age: 29 08 salary: $14m signed thru 2011
Javier Vazquez age: 31 08 salary: $11.5m signed thru 10
Jose Contreras age: TBD 08 salary: $10m signed thru 09
Scott Linebrink age: 31 08 salary: $4m signed thru 11
Mike MacDougal age: 31 08 salary: $1.9m signed thru 09 (club option for 10)
Matt Thornton age: 31 08 salary: $875k signed thru 09 (club options for 10 & 11)

The following players are under rookie contracts still w/ annual re-signing options:
Bobby Jenks age: 27
John Danks age: 22 (23 on April 15)
Nick Massett age: 25
David Aardsma age: 26
Andrew Sisco age: 25
Gavin Floyd age: 25

Josh Fields age: 25
Carlos Quentin age: 25
Jerry Owens age: 27
Danny Richar age: 24
Brian Anderson age: 26

** ages are as of Opening Day 2008
I love how this guy takes his time and makes a very meaningful post and does a hell of a lot of research and all the commets are bashing the post or making jokes.

btrain929
12-30-2007, 08:24 PM
Well, looking ahead is kind of silly, but hey, what the hell. I think the offseason after the '08 season will be very interesting.

-We will more than likely have 10 million off the books right away with Crede and Uribe not coming back.
-Thome has a big option for '09. I don't think it's an automatic that he comes back at that price. That will mainly depend on his health in '08. Maybe we can work something out with him like we tried with Uribe to get his '09 option down to 10 million or so. That would save us another 3 million right there. If (I hope not) he has bad injuries all year and is not very effective, he might not come back, and that would be 13 million saved.
-Contreras will be in the last year of his contract. I'd say there is a strong chance he is dealt ala Garland and Garcia. That would be another 10 million we save (maybe 8 if we throw in a few million to get a better return).

So lets say we get rid of Crede, Uribe, keep Thome at 11 million, and throw in 2 million to trade Contreras, that would be a net savings of about 20 million. I'll also assume that we re-up Orlando Cabrera at 2/18 or 3/25. The only other big expense is Jenks will be arbitration eligible.

I say overall, we have about 5-8 million left over money. Add that to any type of payroll increase we might have, and we have some leverage to make a few moves. I think the main area to target will be our starting rotation. We're going to have to bring in at least 1 big name/avg-above average starter. That way, we can have a rotation of Buehrle, Vazquez, Newly Acquired starter, Danks, and one of Broadway/Gio/Floyd.

Our offense should be average to slightly above average, bullpen should (hopefully) be reliable, so with an upgrade to the rotation, we'll have a decent shot at being competitive in the AL Central.

the1tab
12-30-2007, 10:30 PM
I agree w/ the Sox going after another starter w/ the money they'll have available from other players going. I, however, am not sure we'll see more Thome after 2008. at $11m, I think we might take a look for a younger player that might give us the ability to make Paulie or Jermaine a DH.

btrain929
12-30-2007, 11:15 PM
I agree w/ the Sox going after another starter w/ the money they'll have available from other players going. I, however, am not sure we'll see more Thome after 2008. at $11m, I think we might take a look for a younger player that might give us the ability to make Paulie or Jermaine a DH.

I mentioned it in another thread, but with Thome, I wouldn't mind seeing him retire as a White Sox, but ONLY if he was willing to do one year contracts until he retires in the 6-9 million range. With his health being more of a question mark with every passing year, there's no way he will be demanding 10+ million a year from any team. That's why I mentioned restructuring his '09 option ala Uribe. When healthy, he is very dominant and an OBP machine. Even if he only can give us 90-120 games a year, at 6-7 million, it might be worth it since DH is a fairly easy position to fill.

As for possible future DH's, Dye definitely makes sense, but not Konerko. I know he's slow on the basepaths, but he is still very durable and a plus defender at 1B. So a move there anytime soon wouldn't make too much sense. Plus, if Quentin remains healthy and becomes a solid contributor at the MLB level, he can move to his natural position, RF, when Dye moves to DH. If that happens as early as '09, then we can go back to looking for leadoff hitters that also play LF if Quentin moves to RF. If Owens makes great strides this year if he's our CF and becomes a .275/.350 leadoff hitter, then we can look for a more complete hitter for LF (speed and power).

SoxNation05
12-30-2007, 11:28 PM
I agree w/ the Sox going after another starter w/ the money they'll have available from other players going. I, however, am not sure we'll see more Thome after 2008. at $11m, I think we might take a look for a younger player that might give us the ability to make Paulie or Jermaine a DH.

Jon Garland LAA
Rich Harden * OAK
John Lackey * LAA
Brad Penny * LAD
Oliver Perez NYM
C.C. Sabathia CLE
Johan Santana MIN
Ben Sheets MIL
*option

These are the best of the 09' SP FA crop. I would love to get C.C. but that is very unlikely. Honestly I think Garland will not sign with Sox. Penny and Lackey will stay with each one of their teams. Sabathia and Santana will get outrageous money and Sheets, Perez and Harden are all liabilities with injuries. Honestly I don't see the Sox signing any of these pitchers. But Buerhle, Vazques, and Gio will surely be in the rotation. With Floyd, Danks, and Contreras being question marks. Is there anyone, anyone sees the Sox signing?

Daver
12-30-2007, 11:43 PM
I love how this guy takes his time and makes a very meaningful post and does a hell of a lot of research and all the commets are bashing the post or making jokes.

Meaningful?

Idle speculation is never meaningful.

WhiteSox5187
12-31-2007, 12:39 AM
Meaningful?

Idle speculation is never meaningful.
What was posted above is a hell of a lot more intelligent than about 99% of the other posts we see here, ranging from "I think Aaron Rowand can cure cancer" to "Thank God we didn't overpay for this player."

I think that Kenny got screwed over this off season. He got beat on just about every deal and I am willing to bet is now trying to get a lot younger, but you can't just change plans in the middle of the off season. What happens in '08 will determine a lot. If this is a .500 team, Kenny is going to look to compete in '09...if this is another 90 loss team, I am not sure what will happen. I think then you start looking to blow the whole team up, and really, you might also be looking for a change in GMs at that point. But it all really depends on what happens in '08. A better question would be, what other moves can we make to make the team better for '08?

soxfanreggie
12-31-2007, 01:19 AM
I wouldn't mind re-signing Thome if the salary is right. I don't see us re-signing Dye after this contract. With the money we have freeing up after '08 and '09, we have a chance to make some "splash" signings that could really bolster the team.

raven1
12-31-2007, 08:52 AM
What was posted above is a hell of a lot more intelligent than about 99% of the other posts we see here, ranging from "I think Aaron Rowand can cure cancer" to "Thank God we didn't overpay for this player."

I think that Kenny got screwed over this off season. He got beat on just about every deal and I am willing to bet is now trying to get a lot younger, but you can't just change plans in the middle of the off season. What happens in '08 will determine a lot. If this is a .500 team, Kenny is going to look to compete in '09...if this is another 90 loss team, I am not sure what will happen. I think then you start looking to blow the whole team up, and really, you might also be looking for a change in GMs at that point. But it all really depends on what happens in '08. A better question would be, what other moves can we make to make the team better for '08?

I still think that the roster on Opening Day is going to look very different than what today. The "big move" to get us the leadoff hitter we need or upgrade the 3rd starter probably won't happen until spring training, when teams will hopefully be able to see Crede play. The "expendable" bargaining chips we have (Crede, Uribe, Contreras, MacDougal, Sweeney, Anderson, Aardsma) should net us at least a Juan Pierre-quality leadoff hitter and/or a journeyman starter with an ERA under 4.50. It might not be the high visibility splash people want to see, but probably enough to make a team that has already upgraded its bullpen (Linebrink) and offense (Cabrera) competitive.

As for spending the "extra" money available, I think the Sox need to sign Cabrera to a long-term extension or the Garland trade makes no sense at all. That, plus the salary for the still-to-be acquired leadoff man, will probably max out the 2008 budget, but the likely departure of Thome and/or other FA after the season will provide the salary room needed to upgrade for 2009.

misty60481
12-31-2007, 09:45 AM
I dont think we will get anything worthwhile for Crede until at least July, a few games in ST arent going to convince any GM that he is ready. If he is playing up to normal by July---why trade him, the last thing we need is another slap hitter, get somebody like Jason Bay who can hit 30 HRs and drive in 90+ RBIs. Remember unless we replace Garland with somebody who can win 12-15 games we really dug ourselves in a hole. If we get off to a bad start watch our attendance really dive and nobodys to blame but KW, get at least some exciting players that can hit the ball.

soxtalker
12-31-2007, 10:30 AM
I dont think we will get anything worthwhile for Crede until at least July, a few games in ST arent going to convince any GM that he is ready. If he is playing up to normal by July---why trade him, the last thing we need is another slap hitter, get somebody like Jason Bay who can hit 30 HRs and drive in 90+ RBIs. Remember unless we replace Garland with somebody who can win 12-15 games we really dug ourselves in a hole. If we get off to a bad start watch our attendance really dive and nobodys to blame but KW, get at least some exciting players that can hit the ball.

I'll be surprised if Crede is still around in July. If that is indeed the case, the Sox might end up sharing your view of "why trade him?" But I don't think that GM's will be so risk averse to avoid taking a chance on him in a trade much earlier. While we focus on Crede's recovery, it's equally important to consider the need on the other teams for a third baseman. There are teams now that could use him, but there may be other teams in the mix as spring training proceeds and/or injuries start occurring.

Heffalump
12-31-2007, 11:19 AM
The "expendable" bargaining chips we have (Crede, Uribe, Contreras, MacDougal, Sweeney, Anderson, Aardsma)

Sorry, but i don't think that MacDougal, Sweeney, Anderson, or Aardsma are really "bargaining chips". they are basically worthless at this point. Crede will have value if he can prove his health in spring training. Uribe has some value for his defense, and Contreras has minimal value due to his large salary.

Kenny has his work cut out for him on trading these guys for anything significant.

rdivaldi
12-31-2007, 11:48 AM
Sorry, but i don't think that MacDougal, Sweeney, Anderson, or Aardsma are really "bargaining chips". they are basically worthless at this point.

Aardsma has little value. However, MacDougal has value based on his past performances in 2005 & 2006. Sweeney is still viewed as a top prospect based on his age and physical ability. Anderson still has some value based on his age and defensive prowess.

Just because the fans are down on guys doesn't mean they are viewed in the same light by scouts and GMs.

rdivaldi
12-31-2007, 11:50 AM
But Buerhle, Vazques, and Gio will surely be in the rotation. With Floyd, Danks, and Contreras being question marks.

While I love Gio as a prospect, I don't know how he can be labeled as a sure thing if Danks is a question mark.

raven1
12-31-2007, 12:16 PM
Aardsma has little value. However, MacDougal has value based on his past performances in 2005 & 2006. Sweeney is still viewed as a top prospect based on his age and physical ability. Anderson still has some value based on his age and defensive prowess.

Just because the fans are down on guys doesn't mean they are viewed in the same light by scouts and GMs.
For most of the players the Sox have available for trade I assume that they would be packaged with Crede or maybe Contreras to get what we really need. I don't expect a starter or leadoff hitter to come cheap.

Regarding the Sox rotation, I see no problem with having Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Gonzales, Masset, Broadway, or Haeger as a fourth or fifth starter and being able to compete for a championship. What worries me is having 2 or even 3 of them in 5 man rotation at the same time.

rdivaldi
12-31-2007, 12:33 PM
What worries me is having 2 or even 3 of them in 5 man rotation at the same time.

I'm actually not overly concerned about Contreras or Danks going into 2008. While I don't think Jose is going to return to 2005 form and Danks is going to magically turn into a 15-18 game winner, I think they'll be serviceable and provide us 9- 13 wins each. What worries me is a return to the revolving door at the #5 slot. The memories of Danny Wright, Gary Glover, Josh Stewart, Jason Grilli, Scott Schoeneweis, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, Mike Porzio and Neal Cotts forming a rumba line and dancing out to the mound between 2001- 2004 still burn in my brain.

PalehosePlanet
12-31-2007, 02:10 PM
I agree w/ the Sox going after another starter w/ the money they'll have available from other players going. I, however, am not sure we'll see more Thome after 2008. at $11m, I think we might take a look for a younger player that might give us the ability to make Paulie or Jermaine a DH.

Thome's contract becomes vested for 2009 at 13 million with 600 plate appearances in '08. Therefore, if he remains healthy in '08 he'll be with us --- barring a trade --- in '09.

SoxNation05
12-31-2007, 03:06 PM
There will not be a new starter in our rotation, unless floods completely blows on ST or there is an injury. KW has stated his confidence in Danks and how any team would love to have Floyd in their rotation. I wish that trade w/ Boston would have gone because it would bolster the minor leagues and give us an experienced lead off hitter in Crisp.

bryPt
12-31-2007, 03:16 PM
I love how this guy takes his time and makes a very meaningful post and does a hell of a lot of research and all the commets are bashing the post or making jokes.

Well, that is what this board is all about. And the majority of the bashing is from the mods or long timers here, just look above, DumpJerry would be the first to bash.

FarWestChicago
12-31-2007, 03:18 PM
Well, that is what this board is all about. And the majority of the bashing is from the mods or long timers here, just look above, DumpJerry would be the first to bash.Give it a rest. If all you are going to do is complain about the volunteer staff here, go somewhere else.

rdivaldi
12-31-2007, 03:24 PM
Well, that is what this board is all about. And the majority of the bashing is from the mods or long timers here, just look above, DumpJerry would be the first to bash.

Oh come on now, that's just ridiculous. The "long timers" might be just be a little tired of all of the newbie hyperventilating and whining this offseason. Thus the skepticism over someone who just joined in the last couple of months.

Don't take it personally...

spawn
12-31-2007, 03:28 PM
Oh come on now, that's just ridiculous. The "long timers" might be just be a little tired of all of the newbie hyperventilating and whining this offseason. Thus the skepticism over someone who just joined in the last couple of months.

Don't take it personally...

I don't know what your'e talking about. The only reason I come here is to blast newbies. I also kick puppies, but that's another thing altogether.

SoxNation05
12-31-2007, 03:31 PM
I don't know what your'e talking about. The only reason I come here is to blast newbies. I also kick puppies, but that's another thing altogether.
Was this suppose to be funny?

spawn
12-31-2007, 03:32 PM
Was this suppose to be funny?
It's supposed to be sarcasm. If it made someone laugh, then that's an added bonus.

SoxNation05
12-31-2007, 03:34 PM
It's supposed to be sarcasm. If it made someone laugh, then that's an added bonus.
What is the point of sarcasm if there is humor in it?

spawn
12-31-2007, 03:36 PM
What is the point of sarcasm if there is humor in it?
Some of the funniest things I've ever heard were sarcastic remarks. I'm sorry if you don't get that.

SoxNation05
12-31-2007, 03:38 PM
Some of the funniest things i've ever heard were sarcastic remarks. I'm sorry if you don't get that.
Oh, I get sarcasm just not your puppie kicking knee slappers.

spawn
12-31-2007, 03:40 PM
Oh, I get sarcasm just not your kicking puppies knee slappers.
I'd explain it to you, but it's really not worth the effort. Have a GREAT day! :wink:

the1tab
12-31-2007, 08:41 PM
I don't take anything posted on here personally. Did I spend five minutes actually thinking about a thread? Sure. Am I devestated if people would rather talk about the merits of churros vs Juan Uribe at shortstop this year? No.

At this point in the offseason from hell, everything is conjecture because Kenny really hasn't done anything to make me smile. I was simply ttrying to put some impirical reasoning behing me thinking Torii might not have been the right fit.

Also, I'm a bigger fan of tossing midgets than kicking puppies

raven1
12-31-2007, 08:45 PM
There will not be a new starter in our rotation, unless floods completely blows on ST or there is an injury. KW has stated his confidence in Danks and how any team would love to have Floyd in their rotation. I wish that trade w/ Boston would have gone because it would bolster the minor leagues and give us an experienced lead off hitter in Crisp.
To get back on the original subject of what the Sox could or should do to improve, I would like to believe that KW's statements about not being concerned about starting pitching is just posturing and talking up the quality of what he has (as all GM's are obliged to do).

At the same time, I'm concerned that he may not be able to pull off a deal and we will end up with a similar situation to 2004 where only 4 starters perform at a reasonable level, making every fifth game a giveaway. A swing of 8-10 starts by the #5 starter really could be the difference between being in the race and not.

misty60481
12-31-2007, 11:02 PM
In a way I kind of feel sorry for him but his arrogange and know-it-all attitude dont allow that. I think he truly thought he had the Hunter deal sewed up and got hit so fast that it stunned him. I think he thought he had an outside chance at Cabrera until Tigers came up with there deal. As far as Fukudome he just didnt stand a chance and I dont think he gave more than a passing glance at Jones. The Rowand story was he gave what he thought was his best, he just underestimated the market. Now I dont know what hes going to do, no big fishes left in the market and not much to trade without creating a big hole in our line-up. I dont know how he will replace the 12-15 games Garland would likely win. He better have a lot of answers at Soxfest and trying to explain to Dye and MB about how he plans to contend in 08.

WhiteSox5187
12-31-2007, 11:43 PM
In a way I kind of feel sorry for him but his arrogange and know-it-all attitude dont allow that. I think he truly thought he had the Hunter deal sewed up and got hit so fast that it stunned him. I think he thought he had an outside chance at Cabrera until Tigers came up with there deal. As far as Fukudome he just didnt stand a chance and I dont think he gave more than a passing glance at Jones. The Rowand story was he gave what he thought was his best, he just underestimated the market. Now I dont know what hes going to do, no big fishes left in the market and not much to trade without creating a big hole in our line-up. I dont know how he will replace the 12-15 games Garland would likely win. He better have a lot of answers at Soxfest and trying to explain to Dye and MB about how he plans to contend in 08.
Sox Fest this year will be interesting to say the least...I really don't know what other deals he can make...there aren't a whole lot of FA's out there...and I can't speculate as to what type of trades he might make...we'll see...I don't think we're going to see a whole lot of moves by anyone until Spring Training starts.

raven1
01-01-2008, 08:20 AM
Sox Fest this year will be interesting to say the least...I really don't know what other deals he can make...there aren't a whole lot of FA's out there...and I can't speculate as to what type of trades he might make...we'll see...I don't think we're going to see a whole lot of moves by anyone until Spring Training starts.
At Soxfest I expect that KW will come in with a well-prepared story about how he fixed the bullpen setup hole with Linebrink, upgraded the offense with Cabrera, and extolling the talent & potential of Danks, Floyd, Richar, Owens, & Quentin. He will also remind everyone that he still expects to make more deals and back up his story with stats that show the lineup he has will be competitive as long as everyone has at least an average career year or lives up to the potential he knows they have.

I also expect that a very skeptical crowd won't buy it, so I plan to arrive early at the first scheduled GM Q&A session to make sure I get a seat to see the show.

rdivaldi
01-01-2008, 09:46 AM
I also expect that a very skeptical crowd won't buy it, so I plan to arrive early at the first scheduled GM Q&A session to make sure I get a seat to see the show.

Skeptical or not, that doesn't give anyone the right to act like they are at a taping of the Springer show. I'm sure that half of the sports columnists already have a first draft of an article describing the antics of classless Sox fans at the Q&A session.

jabrch
01-01-2008, 10:08 AM
Skeptical or not, that doesn't give anyone the right to act like they are at a taping of the Springer show. I'm sure that half of the sports columnists already have a first draft of an article describing the antics of classless Sox fans at the Q&A session.


Exactly. I have seen our fans act like complete assbags at this event so much that I no longer buy SoxFest tickets. It's disgraceful.

raven1
01-01-2008, 10:43 AM
Exactly. I have seen our fans act like complete assbags at this event so much that I no longer buy SoxFest tickets. It's disgraceful.
I hope not - I have also seen people ask some very intelligent & challenging questions at these events. Hopefully the jerks will stay home - maybe decide it's time to get off the bandwagon since they could have more fun being Cubs fans this year.

FarWestChicago
01-01-2008, 10:49 AM
Skeptical or not, that doesn't give anyone the right to act like they are at a taping of the Springer show. I'm sure that half of the sports columnists already have a first draft of an article describing the antics of classless Sox fans at the Q&A session.

Exactly. I have seen our fans act like complete assbags at this event so much that I no longer buy SoxFest tickets. It's disgraceful.It's a good thing nothing like that happens around here!

WhiteSox5187
01-01-2008, 12:23 PM
I haven't ever been to SoxFest, so I can't comment on the behavior of the fans, but I think that if someone questions Kenny strenously like "How can you possibly claim this team is any better now than it was in September? Blah blah?" I have no problem with questioning like that, but if winds up becoming some sort of personal attack, then that is just out of line.

rdivaldi
01-01-2008, 12:50 PM
It's a good thing nothing like that happens around here!

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between the two. I don't think you'll see a couple of Flub fans sneak into Sox Fest and pretend to be angry fans at the Q&A.

jabrch
01-01-2008, 02:35 PM
I haven't ever been to SoxFest, so I can't comment on the behavior of the fans, but I think that if someone questions Kenny strenously like "How can you possibly claim this team is any better now than it was in September? Blah blah?" I have no problem with questioning like that, but if winds up becoming some sort of personal attack, then that is just out of line.

2004 was the worst I saw - and my last.

Someone (who was completely ignorant of how baseball works) railed on him for not offering arbitration to Everett and Alomar. (When doing so would have only lead to them accepting it and us being stuck with them at inflated salaries)

Someone told him he'd have a short career if he kept going this poorly.

Someone else asked him if he would move the fences in so Pods wouldn't suck so much.

It's a cross between ignorance and obnoxiousness - and SoxFest brings out the worst of both by putting a microphone in front of some people and empowering them to behave in that manner.

Brian26
01-01-2008, 07:24 PM
2004 was the worst I saw - and my last.

Someone (who was completely ignorant of how baseball works) railed on him for not offering arbitration to Everett and Alomar. (When doing so would have only lead to them accepting it and us being stuck with them at inflated salaries)


That was pretty much half the crowd at the '04 Fest. Nobody understood the arbitration scenario with Alomar and Everett. It wasn't like Kenny didn't want them back, but the way the system was set up allowed these guys to sign much cheaper contracts with other teams than what the Sox could have brought them back for. And go figure, Willie Harris ended up scoring the winning run of the World Series after Robbie Alomar was out of baseball.

Palehose13
01-01-2008, 08:01 PM
That was pretty much half the crowd at the '04 Fest. Nobody understood the arbitration scenario with Alomar and Everett. It wasn't like Kenny didn't want them back, but the way the system was set up allowed these guys to sign much cheaper contracts with other teams than what the Sox could have brought them back for. And go figure, Willie Harris ended up scoring the winning run of the World Series after Robbie Alomar was out of baseball.

Bring back Willie!

the1tab
01-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Bring back Willie!

In all seriousness, he played some good ball in Atlanta in 07. not a bad call.

Brian26
01-01-2008, 09:43 PM
In all seriousness, he played some good ball in Atlanta in 07. not a bad call.

Nationals signed him. Should be interesting to see what he does next year.

TommyJohn
01-01-2008, 09:50 PM
And go figure, Willie Harris ended up scoring the winning run of the World Series after Robbie Alomar was out of baseball.


Well, Hawk said he'd make everyone forget about Roberto Alomar.

Lorenzo Barcelo
01-01-2008, 10:40 PM
I haven't ever been to SoxFest, so I can't comment on the behavior of the fans, but I think that if someone questions Kenny strenously like "How can you possibly claim this team is any better now than it was in September? Blah blah?" I have no problem with questioning like that, but if winds up becoming some sort of personal attack, then that is just out of line.

I've been to every Q & A session with KW at Soxfest and I have not heard any personal attacks toward him. Yes, there are dumb question from uneducated fans, but nothing scathing toward KW. I'm just sick of the ass kissing from fans to get ozzie's/KW's autograph while at the mic. When asked about the pathetic farm system last Soxfest he took the blame for the lack of homegrown talent.

TheVulture
01-01-2008, 11:53 PM
What is the point of sarcasm if there is humor in it?

Is that supposed to be ironic?

SoxNation05
01-02-2008, 04:18 PM
In all seriousness, he played some good ball in Atlanta in 07. not a bad call.
I liked the idea as well but if the Sox were to sign a veteran back up for Richar, I'm sure he would be a right handed hitter. Then Richar can get a day off against a lefty. Also some would think Alexei Rameriez will be the back up 2B.

the1tab
01-02-2008, 10:34 PM
I liked the idea as well but if the Sox were to sign a veteran back up for Richar, I'm sure he would be a right handed hitter. Then Richar can get a day off against a lefty. Also some would think Alexei Rameriez will be the back up 2B.

I understand what you're saying, but has there every been such a thing as too many speedy, versatile bench players that can throw leather in the corner OF spots as well as the middle infield?

I like Alexei off the bench in the same role and it helps that he's younger than Harris, but I'm not seeing a ton of other team speed right now for the ChiSox...

PalehosePlanet
01-02-2008, 10:50 PM
I understand what you're saying, but has there every been such a thing as too many speedy, versatile bench players that can throw leather in the corner OF spots as well as the middle infield?

I like Alexei off the bench in the same role and it helps that he's younger than Harris, but I'm not seeing a ton of other team speed right now for the ChiSox...

Don't forget that guys don't actually have to be base stealers to improve team speed. Quentin, Cabrera, Fields, Richar, the return of Ozuna, and even a part time Owens already greatly improves our team speed from what we started with last year. Also Ramirez seems to be very athletic, and the speedy Jason Bourgeious (spelling?) could make the team as a utility man.

Prediction: I think Josh will actually be good for about 15 SB's in '08.

Lukin13
01-03-2008, 09:43 AM
Don't forget that guys don't actually have to be base stealers to improve team speed. Quentin, Cabrera, Fields, Richar, the return of Ozuna, and even a part time Owens already greatly improves our team speed from what we started with last year. Also Ramirez seems to be very athletic, and the speedy Jason Bourgeious (spelling?) could make the team as a utility man.

Prediction: I think Josh will actually be good for about 15 SB's in '08.


I have always hoped that Ozzie meant actual team speed when he said "team speed"; NOT stolen base attempts.

People who like baseball like traditional station to station, hit and run, small ball style; I fully understand that... I do too.

That is great and all but the Sox happen to play half of their games in a park where the ball absolutely flies over the fence.... and guess what, the team is currently built to suit the park! It would seem silly to waste heaps of outs on the basepaths.

Team speed out of our second tier starters and bench players is great. Stolen base attempts is not great; until our top 4 players either retire or leave KW should be looking for OBP guys who are above average defenders, NOT guys who follow Owens' '07 stat line. Have at it Ozzie/KW if you want to break up the core, but it would seem silly to support our current stars with base stealers.

Tragg
01-03-2008, 12:45 PM
I understand what you're saying, but has there every been such a thing as too many speedy, versatile bench players that can throw leather in the corner OF spots as well as the middle infield?

I like Alexei off the bench in the same role and it helps that he's younger than Harris, but I'm not seeing a ton of other team speed right now for the ChiSox...
Absolutely....they are usually second rate players at any one position (more likely 3rd rate), so that if you have an injury and you need them to start, your club is weakened signicantly. One should be sufficient. Otherwise, get legitimate baseball players on the bench. Get a real hitter. I'd rather a late inning fielder than a 3rd utility infielder.
Last year I was told how great the bench was with all of the versatility...it was awful.

IhateKenny
01-03-2008, 04:41 PM
First thing I would do if I was Kenny would be to fire myself for destroying this team and just doing some of the dumbest **** ever..He is killing my team and doesnt even know it

WhiteSox5187
01-03-2008, 05:07 PM
First thing I would do if I was Kenny would be to fire myself for destroying this team and just doing some of the dumbest **** ever..He is killing my team and doesnt even know it
Oh God....and so it begins.

I don't like Kenny's moves of late either, in fact, I'm not sure he's made many good moves since the Thome trade...but I'm willing to wait and see how '08 pans out. I think another 90 loss season should result in his dismissal.

Save McCuddy's
01-03-2008, 05:08 PM
I was at the '03 one and my main question was "what the **** is Hawk doing on stage with the GM and new manager during a Q and A?"