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chisoxfanatic
12-18-2007, 07:02 PM
Of all the Sox broadcasters that you have ever been priveleged to listen to (both on the radio and television), who would you rank as the best in your eyes?

MDF3530
12-18-2007, 07:06 PM
Don Drysdale and John Rooney.

skobabe8
12-18-2007, 07:06 PM
Great question. John Rooney by far.

John with Ed doing color was music to my ears many a summer. I LOVED Rooneys hr calls and game winner calls.

chisox77
12-18-2007, 07:08 PM
Rooney - play-by-play
color/analyst - Hawk, when he was teamed with Drysdale



:cool:

chisoxfanatic
12-18-2007, 07:09 PM
As much as some here absolutely loathe him, I've gotta go with Hawk Harrelson here. I enjoy listening to a complete homer broadcast my games. In my opinion, objective reporters should only be used for national broadcasts. Local announcers should cater to the fans viewing them. He relates to our joys and disgusts with respect to what's going on in the game. I feel the exact same emotions that Hawk feels when I'm watching the games.

MDF3530
12-18-2007, 07:13 PM
Great question. John Rooney by far.

John with Ed doing color was music to my ears many a summer. I LOVED Rooneys hr calls and game winner calls.

"...FOR A WHITE SOX WINNER!"

Chez
12-18-2007, 07:15 PM
Harry in his prime.

sox1970
12-18-2007, 07:16 PM
Hawk w/ Wimpy

chisoxfanatic
12-18-2007, 07:21 PM
"...FOR A WHITE SOX WINNER!"

"and a world championship! The White Sox have won the World Series, and they're mobbing each other on the infield!!!!!" :whiner:

Lip Man 1
12-18-2007, 07:28 PM
By broadcaster do you mean play by play guy? color analyst? both???

Here's my listings:

Play By Play:

1. Harry Caray
2. John Rooney
3. Don Drysdale

Color Analyst:

1. Jimmy Piersall
2. Hawk Harrelson
3. Ed Farmer

Remember the idea of a color analyst didn't really come into vogue until the 70's...before that there were very few former players in the booth teamed up with a regular announcer. One exception to this for the Sox was back in 1961 when Ralph Kiner teamed up with Bob Elson. For the most part you had two professionally trainers announcers in the booth i.e. Elson and Milo Hamilton..Jack Brickhouse and Vince Lloyd and so forth. There really wasn't a distinction between play by play guy and analyst. Both shifted roles during the broadcast, usually the 'main' play by play guy did six innings with the other guy doing three.

Lip

JNS
12-18-2007, 07:29 PM
Of all the Sox broadcasters that you have ever been priveleged to listen to (both on the radio and television), who would you rank as the best in your eyes?

Harry & Jimmy! They could make a rain delay into a laugh-fest.

This would be before Harry went senile with the Cubs, and Jimmy, lithium and all was/is extremely knowledgeable about the game. Best play-by-play and color combo in history. Period.

"It might be, it could be --- IT IS --- A HOME RUN FOR DICK ALLEN!"

Vince Lloyd did some Sox games in the 60s - he was a fantastic play-by-play guy.

The best play-by-play guy ever - he occasionally did Sox games in WGN TV in the 60s and was the BEST radio play-by-play guy for hockey ever was Lloyd Petit. "Hull to Wharrem, back to Pilotte, over to Vasko, back to Hull, he shoots HE SCORES!

Back to baseball - I'll never forget Piersol complaining about Claudell Washington: "this guy has so much talent, and he just sits there - sometime you just want to strangle him!!!"

The worst? Jack Brickhouse, closely followed by Don Dullsdale. Hawk is pretty insuferable.

Chez
12-18-2007, 07:32 PM
The best play-by-play guy ever - he occasionally did Sox games in WGN TV in the 60s and was the BEST radio play-by-play guy for hockey ever was Lloyd Petit. "Hull to Wharrem, back to Pilotte, over to Vasko, back to Hull, he shoots HE SCORES!



I agree that Lloyd Petit was awesome, but his signature line was "there's a shot; AND A GOAL."

WhiteSox5187
12-18-2007, 07:34 PM
I missed out on the Harry Caray with the White Sox era so in my lifetime there was no better announcer than John Rooney.

JNS
12-18-2007, 07:36 PM
By broadcaster do you mean play by play guy? color analyst? both???

Here's my listings:

Play By Play:

1. Harry Caray
2. John Rooney
3. Don Drysdale

Color Analyst:

1. Jimmy Piersall
2. Hawk Harrelson
3. Ed Farmer

Remember the idea of a color analyst didn't really come into vogue until the 70's...before that there were very few former players in the booth teamed up with a regular announcer. One exception to this for the Sox was back in 1961 when Ralph Kiner teamed up with Bob Elson. For the most part you had two professionally trainers announcers in the booth i.e. Elson and Milo Hamilton..Jack Brickhouse and Vince Lloyd and so forth. There really wasn't a distinction between play by play guy and analyst. Both shifted roles during the broadcast, usually the 'main' play by play guy did six innings with the other guy doing three.

Lip
I got double-posted - mods I am sorry - I don't know how that happened - please delete one of them if you would like.

Elson - the Commander. I grew up with him, usually with Smiling Milo as his sidekick. By the time I was around, Bob was getting a little long in the tooth. not exactly scintillating, but a hellovalot better than Brickhouse.

Veeck once told me that when Harry comes into a bar all the drionks are on him - I can confirm that as a fact. When Brickhouse came into a joint, he expected everyone to pony up for him. Sounds right to me.

thomas35forever
12-18-2007, 07:38 PM
Rooney and Hawk.

JNS
12-18-2007, 07:38 PM
I agree that Lloyd Petit was awesome, but his signature line was "there's a shot; AND A GOAL."

I stand corrected - you are right.

Of course when the Hawks were at home, he was all we had - no TV of course. I would lay in bed and imagine being in the mezzanine of the Stadium as I listened to his fantastic announcing.

For baseball, Harry in his prime had no peer, and when he was teamed with Jimmy - well, they made a pretty bad team fun.

Save McCuddy's
12-18-2007, 07:55 PM
Wayne Hagin ...

or maybe Lorn Brown.

ShoelessJoeS
12-18-2007, 07:57 PM
My dream team would be...

PBP: John Rooney
Color: Hawk Harrelson

Noneck
12-18-2007, 08:17 PM
Play by play

1. Harry Caray
2. Bob Elson


Color

1.Jimmy Piersall
2. Red Rush

Noneck
12-18-2007, 08:29 PM
the BEST radio play-by-play guy for hockey ever was Lloyd Petit. "Hull to Wharrem, back to Pilotte, over to Vasko, back to hull, he shoots HE SCORES!



Hate to nit pick but I truly doubt these 4 were on the ice at the same time to kill penalties. If you switched Wharrem for Eric Nesterenko it would be possible but it wasn't shoots he scores, it was SHOT and a GOAL.

Oldschoolsoxguy
12-18-2007, 08:43 PM
Harry & Jimmy without a doubt.They were great together.

Harry:"All the talent in the world,this Dick Allen.A million
dollar talent with a ten cent brain"...or "we had a
chance to tie it in the 9th,but because of some
stupid baserunning by Soderholm"...

Jimmy:"These Latin basestealers...a one run game and
they are all scared to move but in a 6-0 game
they'll run all day."

soxinem1
12-18-2007, 08:50 PM
TV:

Harry, Drysdale, Hawk

Radio:

Rooney, Lorn Brown, Joe McConnell (I loved McConnell's roof shot and game winning hit calls)

Huisj
12-18-2007, 08:55 PM
Definitely John Rooney. I grew up listening to him in the car wherever I went in the evening, and it just isn't the same anymore. He was outstanding.

WSox597
12-18-2007, 08:58 PM
Don Drysdale and John Rooney.


We have a winner.

chisox77
12-18-2007, 09:25 PM
I enjoyed Drysdale and Hawk in the early and middle 80's. They were a very good combination.

Going back, my dad always liked Elson.

But considering individual talent and ability, Rooney was, IMO, the best at PBP. And Hawk, when he was a little younger, was very sharp in his role as the analyst/color guy, with Drysdale doing PBP.


:cool:

DickAllen72
12-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Harry Caray was by far the best TV play-by-play man the Sox had, and he was even better on the radio. In his prime, no one could touch Harry painting a picture of the game on the radio. He managed to work in every detail and was smooth as silk doing it, all the while being very entertaining as well.

Best play-by-play/color team ever was Harry & Jimmy Piersall by far.

TheCommander
12-18-2007, 09:41 PM
DD and Hawk.:supernana:

TornLabrum
12-18-2007, 09:51 PM
I've been watching and listening since 1955, and the best for me was Harry and Jimmy.

There is a lot of negativism about Jack Brickhouse, but he and Chico Carrasquel are the reason I'm a) a baseball fan and b) a Sox fan. It was a Brickhouse call of a Carrasquel home run that sent me running home from my grandparents' house to watch a game for the first time.

I feel lucky enough to have been able to tell both Brickhouse and Carrasquel my story. So there will always be a special place in my heart for Brickhouse.

Lip Man 1
12-18-2007, 09:59 PM
Hal:

No question Jack was very very good with the Sox. The talk that he was a Cubs shrill is pure BS. Listen to how he sounded the night the Sox won the 59 pennant for example.

Had the Sox decided to continue the relationship with WGN-TV after 1967 Jack probably would have spent at least another ten years doing some of their games.

Lip

Noneck
12-18-2007, 10:13 PM
Hal:

No question Jack was very very good with the Sox. The talk that he was a Cubs shrill is pure BS. Listen to how he sounded the night the Sox won the 59 pennant for example.

Had the Sox decided to continue the relationship with WGN-TV after 1967 Jack probably would have spent at least another ten years doing some of their games.

Lip

Brickhouse wasn't a cubs shill it was his style with all his broadcasting jobs. I do remember watching his last cubs broadcast on a real steamer (of a night that is). His career was long and his plate was always full, as he always liked it.

WhiteSoxJunkie
12-18-2007, 10:37 PM
I'm young. I only remember Hawk, Wimpy, and DJ, and I very rarely listen to games on the radio. So therefore, Hawk is my favorite.

kba
12-18-2007, 11:03 PM
Hal:

No question Jack was very very good with the Sox. The talk that he was a Cubs shrill is pure BS.

In his book, Bill Veeck credits Jack Brickhouse with being the "final helping hand" that allowed Veeck to put together the money to buy the Sox in '75. At the eleventh hour - with the league threatening to move the Sox to Seattle - Brickhouse persuaded a couple of his rich friends to invest $250,000 in Veeck's ownership group.

I've never met anybody on either side of Chicago who knew Jack Brickhouse who didn't like and respect him. It's a shame his legacy on the North Side has become an afterthought to Harry's.

nccwsfan
12-18-2007, 11:08 PM
Drysdale and Hawk in the 80's.

JNS
12-18-2007, 11:16 PM
Hate to nit pick but I truly doubt these 4 were on the ice at the same time to kill penalties. If you switched Wharrem for Eric Nesterenko it would be possible but it wasn't shoots he scores, it was SHOT and a GOAL.

You are right about Petit's phraseology, but I think the lineup is correct.

Wharrem and Bobby Hull played on the Million Dollar Line (I'm pretty sure), and Pilotte and Moose Vasko were defense-men. The Nesterenko line was the penalty killing line. I think the other line was the Mikita line (Scooter Line?) and Chico Maki ran the third line. It's been a long, long time - you easily could be right. But I know Hull, Pilotte, and Vasko would have been on the ice at the same time.

JNS
12-18-2007, 11:22 PM
In his book, Bill Veeck credits Jack Brickhouse with being the "final helping hand" that allowed Veeck to put together the money to buy the Sox in '75. At the eleventh hour - with the league threatening to move the Sox to Seattle - Brickhouse persuaded a couple of his rich friends to invest $250,000 in Veeck's ownership group.

I've never met anybody on either side of Chicago who knew Jack Brickhouse who didn't like and respect him. It's a shame his legacy on the North Side has become an afterthought to Harry's.

Yeah, Veeck liked Brickhouse and didn't like Harry - said he was a boor, which may have been the case, but he understood Harry's following and how valuable he was to the franchise. Harry certainly didn't have any trouble buying a lot of drinks (he was a Johnny Walker man, NOT a beer drinker).

I shook Harry's hand once - it was the softest hand of any man whose had I have ever shaken. Major manicure stuff.

Noneck
12-18-2007, 11:26 PM
You are right about Petit's phraseology, but I think the lineup is correct.

Wharrem and Bobby Hull played on the Million Dollar Line (I'm pretty sure), and Pilotte and Moose Vasko were defense-men. The Nesterenko line was the penalty killing line. I think the other line was the Mikita line (Scooter Line?) and Chico Maki ran the third line. It's been a long, long time - you easily could be right. But I know Hull, Pilotte, and Vasko would have been on the ice at the same time.
You only named 4 players so I assumed you were speaking of a penalty killing situation, which I never remember Wharrem on. Wasn't the original scooter line, Mikita , Wharrem and Mohns? It has been a long time, maybe I am wrong. But you brought back some good memory's.

ShoelessJoeS
12-18-2007, 11:26 PM
What, no love for DJ?

Frontman
12-18-2007, 11:27 PM
Well, of all time I can't decide a clear cut winner; as I relate the commentator with the moments that make the game great.

For me, Rooney through 2005 was pure gold. I'll never forget him just absolutely loosing his mind on Pod's walk off, with Farmio laughing in the background.

Hawk and Wimpy had some great moments, as had Hawk and DJ. Hawk's call the second Thome's 500th came off the bat left little doubt.

I have to give an honorary mention to Steve Stone. He was a ton of fun this past summer to listen to.

When an email came in about getting a job with a MLB organization; Steven in his ever brilliant nature stated:

"Well, first off. Have your father buy a Major League Organization....."

And of course I'll always have a soft spot for Farmio, but that's for being such a nice guy in person.

Frontman
12-18-2007, 11:28 PM
What, no love for DJ?

You know what, I think again its more of his personality and nice guy attitude than his commentary.

Although he has had some great moments ribbing the heck out of Hawk.

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2007, 11:36 PM
I never got to hear Harry and Jimmy do a Sox game - they were before my time (I became a Sox fan at age 7 in September 1983).

Rooney and Haginwere a great radio PBP duo in the early 90s.

In his short stint as DJ's sub, Stone was magnificent. I'd love a full-time TV booth with Hawk and Stone.

Bucky F. Dent
12-18-2007, 11:38 PM
Harry & Jimmy followed closely by Hawk & Drysdale.

IMHO, the current broadcast teams are fairly awful, especially in comparison to Harry & Jimmy and Hawk & Drysdale.

Sox
12-18-2007, 11:46 PM
Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall. Man oh man. :tongue:

JNS
12-18-2007, 11:59 PM
You only named 4 players so I assumed you were speaking of a penalty killing situation, which I never remember Wharrem on. Wasn't the original scooter line, Mikita , Wharrem and Mohns? It has been a long time, maybe I am wrong. But you brought back some good memory's.

Again I stand corrected - I had forgotten about Doug Mohns!

I was thinking the Million Dollar Line was Hull, Wharrem, and a third guy who is lost in a cloud of senility until Google reminded me it was Bill Hay and MURRAY BALFOUR.

Right, and there there was the Maki line, and the penelty killers with my person favorite, Nesterenko.

Yeah, it does bring back great memories - too bad about the Hawks.

But this is really off-topic. I just felt that Petit, even though he was never a big-time baseball announcer was so professional and sussinct ihe deserved a mention.

Nellie_Fox
12-19-2007, 12:54 AM
I was thinking the Million Dollar Line was Hull, Wharram, and a third guy who is lost in a cloud of senility until Google reminded me it was Bill Hay and MURRAY BALFOUR. I didn't even know his name was Bill. I only knew him as Red Hay.

BainesHOF
12-19-2007, 12:57 AM
Harry, by a mile.

He and Jimmy were quite the rock-and-roll announcing team.

I like Hawk a lot, but he's never been as close to honest as Harry was.

Dan Mega
12-19-2007, 12:59 AM
Rooney.

Stone was good in his brief stint here.

PKalltheway
12-19-2007, 01:23 AM
Hawk and DJ

JNS
12-19-2007, 01:54 AM
I didn't even know his name was Bill. I only knew him as Red Hay.

Jeez, I'm just being a Black hawks doof tonight. I had forgotten him as well, although I remembered Reggie Fleming and Howie Young when thinking about that team.

Hey - who was Elson's #2 before Milo Hamilton on the 60?

I know Elson did every Sox game on the radio from 1929 to the late 60s, when he was replaced by Jack Drees I believe.

Grzegorz
12-19-2007, 05:58 AM
When I was just starting to listen to baseball games on the radio it was Bob Elson. I also remember him with Lloyd Pettit doing Chicago Blackhawk games.

I love these guys from the past...

But, the best team of Chicago White Sox announcers bar none are Harry doing play by play and Jimmy doing color.

soxfan21
12-19-2007, 06:11 AM
I miss the days of Hawk and Wimpy. I loved listening to them during the '93 season when the sox won the division.

wassagstdu
12-19-2007, 07:45 AM
Jack Brickhouse on TV and Bob Elson on radio. One of life's great pleasures was listening to Elson at night. And isn't that Brickhouse calling the Willie Mays catch in the 54 World Series? Harry Caray was fabulous early on. I remember listening to him do Cardinals games on the radio when I was in college in Champaign. But as a Sox announcer all I can remember is "And Sam and Mabel Chotchky are here from Hammond celebrating their anniversary. Strike two."

More recently, win or lose I like listening to Hawk -- and Wimpy or DJ.

SoxFan78
12-19-2007, 09:04 AM
TV: Hawk and Wimpy
Radio: Rooney and Farmer

JNS
12-19-2007, 09:40 AM
Jack Brickhouse on TV and Bob Elson on radio. One of life's great pleasures was listening to Elson at night. And isn't that Brickhouse calling the Willie Mays catch in the 54 World Series?


You have good ears - it is, but I know that only because I read it years ago.

Yeah, as a kid, listening to The Commander at night is a lasting memory. He wasn't exciting, but he knew how to call a game - very detailed and concise. And of course we always heard about the activities of young "Bob Jr." and Friendly Bob Adams of General Finance.

As much as Brickhouse got on my nerves, he and Arne Harris pretty much invented TV baseball broadcasting. I think Brickhouse did the first TV baseball broadcast anywhere - the Sox or the Bees - in 1948. And I believe the original CF camera was invented by Harris at Old Comiskey.

asindc
12-19-2007, 09:57 AM
As much as some here absolutely loathe him, I've gotta go with Hawk Harrelson here. I enjoy listening to a complete homer broadcast my games. In my opinion, objective reporters should only be used for national broadcasts. Local announcers should cater to the fans viewing them. He relates to our joys and disgusts with respect to what's going on in the game. I feel the exact same emotions that Hawk feels when I'm watching the games.


I agree 100% with this. I never understood why fans of other teams would expect a local announcer, paid by the ball club, broadcasting on a local station, to be objective. If it is a national broadcast, then yes. But I want my Sox announcers rooting for the Sox. Call me strange that way.:smile:

Favorite announcers:
Harry
Hawk
Rooney

Fenway
12-19-2007, 10:07 AM
Harry and Jimmy were at their best in 1981 on WBBM. Only problem was Jimmy was in self destruct mode. He went on Mike Royko's talk show and made his infamous statement about what a baseball wife is. It was all over then.

skottyj242
12-19-2007, 10:14 AM
Hawk and Wimpy.

I didn't see the game that was on Sunday because I was at the game but I think Hawk and Steve Stone had some good chemistry.

Law11
12-19-2007, 10:24 AM
Harry & Jimmy..

Rooney for radio.

russ99
12-19-2007, 11:30 AM
Harry and Jimmy in their prime, though not so much for the actual baseball broadcasting, more due to that they were given free rein and said what they thought, unlike today's sponsor/station/club conscious politically-correct announcers. Plus Harry was a little bit drunk and Jimmy was a little bit crazy most of the time. :D: It truly was the inmates running the asylum and as a rebellious kid, I ate it up with a spoon.

Drysdale was a heck of a broadcaster, it's a shame he didn't stay here longer.

I also appreciate Hawk and Wimpy, and the 2005 Rooney Farmer radio crew.

cheezheadsoxfan
12-19-2007, 11:41 AM
Harry and Jimmy were the most fun although as another poster said Jimmy could get in self-destruct mode.

Then Hawk. I like the local announcer to be a homer too.

Lip Man 1
12-19-2007, 12:14 PM
JNS:

These were Bob's partners:

Jack Brickhouse-1945
Dick Bingham-1952
Don Wells-1953/60 (left to become PBP man for the new Angels team)
Ralph Kiner-1961 (left to become PBP man for the new Mets team)
Milo Hamilton-1962/65 (left to become PBP man for the Braves in Atlanta)
Bob Finnegan-1966
Red Rush-1967/70

Lip

Hitmen77
12-19-2007, 12:14 PM
1. Harry Caray w/ Piersall in the late 70s
2. Hawk and Wimpy in the 90s*
3. John Rooney

* not to be confused with the Hawk Harrelson of today - who can often be unbearable to listen to. Along the same lines, the Sox version of Harry Caray (with his willingness to criticize poor play) is not to be confused with the cheerleading mascot that he morphed into once he joined the Cubs.

ode to veeck
12-19-2007, 12:26 PM
Harry and Jimmy in their prime
Tom Paciorak
Jack Brickhouse
Lloyd Petiit
Steve Stone



Never could stand Hawk and still can't

JNS
12-19-2007, 02:53 PM
JNS:

These were Bob's partners:

Jack Brickhouse-1945
Dick Bingham-1952
Don Wells-1953/60 (left to become PBP man for the new Angels team)
Ralph Kiner-1961 (left to become PBP man for the new Mets team)
Milo Hamilton-1962/65 (left to become PBP man for the Braves in Atlanta)
Bob Finnegan-1966
Red Rush-1967/70

Lip

Thanks Lip! I vaguely remember Kiner, not when he was patroling the OF, but as an announcer - I think he was a buddy of Veeck's - and Finnigan. Wells and Bingham were before my time as a listener.

Does anyone remember Bob Waller? He was Harry's side-kick in his early days with the Sox - 71 and 72 I think. Then he went elsewhere and was replaced by (I think) Bob Mercer.

I notice there hasn't been one mention of poor old Lorn Brown. Well, maybe there is a reason for that!

And then there were those two immortals, J. C. Martin for a year, and Early ("he's a big boy - packs alotta power") Wynn.

Fenway
12-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Do any tapes of Mary Shane exist? She was the first woman MLB announcer that Veeck hired in 1977.

She later became a NBA beat reporter for the Worcester Telegram and sadly died of a heart attack 20 years ago.

Long bio on Mary Shane

http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=1558&pid=19538

billcissell
12-19-2007, 03:43 PM
Harry and Jimmy during the 70s. Harry was in his prime and Jimmy was his wacky yet knowledgeable sidekick. Very entertaining and they told it like it was.

Bob Elson - the Commander was very fluent, smooth, you knew exactly what was happening on the field.

Never cared for Brickhouse, although I respected his enthusiasm and longevity. He had a poor understanding of the game. During the 60s when WGN carried both the Cubs and Sox, he'd do part of the day game at Wrigley, leave around the fifth inning and fly out to wherever the Sox were playing that evening. He'd be alone in the booth for the Sox night game and you'd swear there was something wrong with the volume on your TV set because he'd barely say much of anything for large stretches of time.

I can believe it when someone earlier stated that when Harry entered a bar, the drinks were on him. When Brickhouse entered a bar, he figured everyone owed him a drink. During the late 70s early 80s he frequented a suburban restaurant off Milwaukee Avenue known as the Primeminister. He would sit at a corner table, nurse a few drinks and eat dinner alone. Occasionally someone would send over a drink. He wouldn't even acknowledge it. The waitresses used to rotate serving him because rumor had it he never tipped.

Brickhouse did the Bears games on WBBM radio during the 70s with his partner, Irv Kupcinet. They were both clueless. If you turned the game on TV and turned down the sound, you'd swear Brickhouse and Kupcinet were watching a different game. What was truly amazing is that this went on for years before someone got smart and eased these two out of the booth.

As far as poor announcers go, Jack Dress was great at horseracing but terrible at baseball. Anyone remember Mel Parnell? How about the Lou Brock experiment?

Lip Man 1
12-19-2007, 03:43 PM
Two things.

I have some of Mary working with Lorn from July 1977 and two

Regarding Bob Waller. I liked Bob and he had a lot of guts to do what he did at the end of the season which resulted in him getting fired. He then went to ESPN where (and I have this on tape) he actually fell asleep on the SportsCenter set and his partner that night had to nudge him awake after he was cued to do his next story!

Lip

Fenway
12-19-2007, 03:52 PM
As far as poor announcers go, Jack Dress was great at horseracing but terrible at baseball. Anyone remember Mel Parnell? How about the Lou Brock experiment?

Tom Yawkey had to fire Parnell he was so bad in Boston

Parnell can be heard in this clip at around the 4 minute 30 second mark. Boston was on the verge of at least tying for the pennant in 67 so Ken Coleman has left the TV booth to go to the clubhouse leaving poor Mel to call the biggest moment in Red Sox history in over 20 years... (Ned Martin was on radio )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1qlOjIVBuY

rdwj
12-19-2007, 04:03 PM
Hawk w/ Wimpy

me too

JNS
12-19-2007, 04:06 PM
Two things.

I have some of Mary working with Lorn from July 1977 and two

Regarding Bob Waller. I liked Bob and he had a lot of guts to do what he did at the end of the season which resulted in him getting fired. He then went to ESPN where (and I have this on tape) he actually fell asleep on the SportsCenter set and his partner that night had to nudge him awake after he was cued to do his next story!

Lip

LOL!

What did Waller do? I have a vague memory of some sort of controversy - around money maybe, or the incompetence of the John Allyn? Viet Nam? Watergate? No - he left after the 1972 season, before Watergate exploded.

Please do tell!

JNS
12-19-2007, 04:17 PM
Harry and Jimmy during the 70s. Harry was in his prime and Jimmy was his wacky yet knowledgeable sidekick. Very entertaining and they told it like it was.

Bob Elson - the Commander was very fluent, smooth, you knew exactly what was happening on the field.

Never cared for Brickhouse, although I respected his enthusiasm and longevity. He had a poor understanding of the game. During the 60s when WGN carried both the Cubs and Sox, he'd do part of the day game at Wrigley, leave around the fifth inning and fly out to wherever the Sox were playing that evening. He'd be alone in the booth for the Sox night game and you'd swear there was something wrong with the volume on your TV set because he'd barely say much of anything for large stretches of time.

I can believe it when someone earlier stated that when Harry entered a bar, the drinks were on him. When Brickhouse entered a bar, he figured everyone owed him a drink. During the late 70s early 80s he frequented a suburban restaurant off Milwaukee Avenue known as the Primeminister. He would sit at a corner table, nurse a few drinks and eat dinner alone. Occasionally someone would send over a drink. He wouldn't even acknowledge it. The waitresses used to rotate serving him because rumor had it he never tipped.

Brickhouse did the Bears games on WBBM radio during the 70s with his partner, Irv Kupcinet. They were both clueless. If you turned the game on TV and turned down the sound, you'd swear Brickhouse and Kupcinet were watching a different game. What was truly amazing is that this went on for years before someone got smart and eased these two out of the booth.

As far as poor announcers go, Jack Dress was great at horseracing but terrible at baseball. Anyone remember Mel Parnell? How about the Lou Brock experiment?

True story:

Late (maybe the final game) of the 69 season. Bears went 1 - 13 I think, under Jim Dooley. Home game (Wrigley). Snow.

The Bears are getting their butts kicked by the Pack. Fans are drunk and booing - you could hear them in the background. Brickhouse and Kup are totally disconsolate.

All of a sudden the crowd roars. So drunk with long hair has run onto the field. The Bears and security are chasing him around, but by the roar of the crowd you can tell the Bears are so bad, they can't even catch this drunk, and every time he eludes some cop or a Bear the crowd goes nuts.

Brick and Kup are beside themselves. Brick: "Kup, there's just no respect any more - NO RESPECT!" Kup: "that's right Jack." Brickhouse: No partriotism, no RESPECT!" Kup: "that's right Jack."

Then Brickhouse started to cry - I'm not kidding.

I was on the floor. It ended when Butkus came off the bench and clotheslined the drunk rampaging hippie. The crowd went absolutely crazy.

Thus ended Jim Dooley's coaching career.

MDF3530
12-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Didn't Early Wynn do color for the Sox on the radio sometime in the 80s?

JNS
12-19-2007, 06:02 PM
Didn't Early Wynn do color for the Sox on the radio sometime in the 80s?

"He's a big boy - packs a lotta power" was the only thing I remember him saying.

I think he partnered with Hawk too, before Wimpy.

HITMEN OF 77
12-19-2007, 06:12 PM
Post 1980's Hawk & DJ.

Pre 1980's Harry Caray.

dickallen15
12-19-2007, 06:25 PM
Has Wayne Hagen received any votes? As much as Rooney was loved wasn't Wayne let go because the 2 sounded too much alike and listeners couldn't tell which was which?

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-19-2007, 06:56 PM
Hawk is so pasionate about the SOX, and I still love is "Hawkisims"

"YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD";
YESSSSS
GASSSS
GET ON BACK THERE
STRETCH
DUCKS ON THE POND
CAT-BIRD SEAT
CAN OF CORN
DUCK-SNORT
PICK TO CLICK

I'm missing...........????

MDF3530
12-19-2007, 06:57 PM
Hawk is so pasionate about the SOX, and I still love is "Hawkisims"

"YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD";
YESSSSS
GASSSS
GET ON BACK THERE
STRETCH
DUCKS ON THE POND
CAT-BIRD SEAT
CAN OF CORN
DUCK-SNORT
PICK TO CLICK

I'm missing...........????HE GAWN!!!

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-19-2007, 08:22 PM
HE GAWN!!!


I could I forget! Thanks!

Lip Man 1
12-19-2007, 08:45 PM
This and That:

Hagin did sound a lot like Rooney. I have the final game from the original Comiskey Park and the two do sound much much alike.

Early Wynn did Sox radio in 1982 and 1983.

Bob Waller got fired at the end of the 1974 season and was replaced by J.C. Martin. (Martin has some interesting things to say about Harry in his interview with WSI) The reason Waller got fired was because he did an interview with Chuck Tanner the final day (If memory serves it was on the pre game show) of the season. Waller had it with Chuck's 'optimistic' attitude after another bad season and asked tough questions about what was wrong with this team and organization. Tanner got royally pissed and walked off in the middle of the interview. Waller continued the interview with himself, 'answering' his own questions in a frank manner about the state of the franchise. Sox fans loved his candor....Sox management did not.

Lip

Bucky F. Dent
12-19-2007, 09:02 PM
I always find it to be an interesting dynamic for the team's commentators. You don't want to come off as a complete corporate shill or the fans will hate you. On the other hand. You don't want to get yourself canned, so you have to walk the party line.

In the time that I have been watching sports in Chicago, probably the best guy to be critical but still a company guy was Pat Foley w/ the Hawks.

I'll never forget the first night after Karpovtsev was traded. He drilled potsie something fierce.

JNS
12-19-2007, 09:24 PM
This and That:

Hagin did sound a lot like Rooney. I have the final game from the original Comiskey Park and the two do sound much much alike.

Early Wynn did Sox radio in 1982 and 1983.

Bob Waller got fired at the end of the 1974 season and was replaced by J.C. Martin. (Martin has some interesting things to say about Harry in his interview with WSI) The reason Waller got fired was because he did an interview with Chuck Tanner the final day (If memory serves it was on the pre game show) of the season. Waller had it with Chuck's 'optimistic' attitude after another bad season and asked tough questions about what was wrong with this team and organization. Tanner got royally pissed and walked off in the middle of the interview. Waller continued the interview with himself, 'answering' his own questions in a frank manner about the state of the franchise. Sox fans loved his candor....Sox management did not.

Lip

Funny how memory works - I really thought that Waller was gone after 1972. I too got annoyed at Tanner's always rosy POV.

If I am not mistaken, and I've been mistaken a LOT in this thread, 74 was the year we pretty much had nobody - only one year away from the Allyn meltdown and the threatened move to Seattle. Dent, May, Henderson, PK, and Orta. I must admit I loved Orta's bat whatever other shortcomings he had.

I remember Harry saying over and over again "if we had nine guys like Ken Henderson on this team we'd win the pennant!" I never understood that, because it seemed to me that Henderson, a decent journeyman CF, wasn't exactly the type to light the world on fire, especially in the era of the great A's teams.

kba
12-19-2007, 09:34 PM
Bob Waller got fired at the end of the 1974 season and was replaced by J.C. Martin. (Martin has some interesting things to say about Harry in his interview with WSI)

J.C. Martin was a decent catcher and may be a nice guy, but he was absolutely brutal as an announcer. (Think of a less articulate version of Chris Singleton with a thick southern twang.) If memory serves, he got the job because he was John Allyn's golf partner. And as Martin says in his WSI interview, Harry hated him, and Harry went out his way to make him sound even worse on the air than he would have otherwise. I think Harry was still bitter over the firing of Waller - who I remember as being pretty solid.

JNS
12-19-2007, 09:37 PM
This and That:

Hagin did sound a lot like Rooney. I have the final game from the original Comiskey Park and the two do sound much much alike.

Early Wynn did Sox radio in 1982 and 1983.

Bob Waller got fired at the end of the 1974 season and was replaced by J.C. Martin. (Martin has some interesting things to say about Harry in his interview with WSI) The reason Waller got fired was because he did an interview with Chuck Tanner the final day (If memory serves it was on the pre game show) of the season. Waller had it with Chuck's 'optimistic' attitude after another bad season and asked tough questions about what was wrong with this team and organization. Tanner got royally pissed and walked off in the middle of the interview. Waller continued the interview with himself, 'answering' his own questions in a frank manner about the state of the franchise. Sox fans loved his candor....Sox management did not.

Lip

Martin's comments about Harry sync with what a lot of people have said. We all know how Milo Hamilton felt, but I always got the impression that Harry felt that it was his color man's gig to make him look good.

Kind of like Piersol's story about getting fined by Stengel after hitting his 100th HR and running around the bases backwards. Casey told him "if there's any clowning to be done on this team, it's gonna be done by me!"

There could only be one star in that booth, and that was harry. if you didn't actively work to make him look good, he would undermine you.

As has been written before, Veeck thought Harry was a boor and a ****head. He probably was, but I still loved him in the booth, especially with Jimmy.

JNS
12-19-2007, 09:39 PM
J.C. Martin was a decent catcher and may be a nice guy, but he was absolutely brutal as an announcer. (Think of a less articulate version of Chris Singleton with a thick southern twang.) If memory serves, he got the job because he was John Allyn's golf partner. And as Martin says in his WSI interview, Harry hated him, and Harry went out his way to make him sound even worse on the air than he would have otherwise. I think Harry was still bitter over the firing of Waller - who I remember as being pretty solid.

I can't argue with that! Maybe Wynn was worse. Another inarticulate guy with a thick accent.

TornLabrum
12-19-2007, 10:12 PM
This and That:

Hagin did sound a lot like Rooney. I have the final game from the original Comiskey Park and the two do sound much much alike.

Early Wynn did Sox radio in 1982 and 1983.

Bob Waller got fired at the end of the 1974 season and was replaced by J.C. Martin. (Martin has some interesting things to say about Harry in his interview with WSI) The reason Waller got fired was because he did an interview with Chuck Tanner the final day (If memory serves it was on the pre game show) of the season. Waller had it with Chuck's 'optimistic' attitude after another bad season and asked tough questions about what was wrong with this team and organization. Tanner got royally pissed and walked off in the middle of the interview. Waller continued the interview with himself, 'answering' his own questions in a frank manner about the state of the franchise. Sox fans loved his candor....Sox management did not.

Lip

And then to top it off, he gave a not-too-flattering season summary when the game was over.

kba
12-19-2007, 10:40 PM
The best play-by-play guy ever - he occasionally did Sox games in WGN TV in the 60s and was the BEST radio play-by-play guy for hockey ever was Lloyd Petit. "Hull to Wharrem, back to Pilotte, over to Vasko, back to Hull, he shoots HE SCORES!


I'm sorry I missed Petit doing Sox games. I remember another Hawks announcer working Sox games in the 70's - Bud Kelly. But he was nothing special in either sport.

Jim Durham - who was the voice of the Bulls for a long time - remains one of my favorite basketball announcers, but his one year calling Sox games in 1990 was pretty forgettable.

Lip Man 1
12-19-2007, 10:44 PM
JNS:

Ken Henderson was a Gold Glove winning, 20 home run a year guy at a time when center fielders didn't hit like that around baseball.

He was a very good player who played the game hard.

Lip

JNS
12-19-2007, 11:34 PM
JNS:

Ken Henderson was a Gold Glove winning, 20 home run a year guy at a time when center fielders didn't hit like that around baseball.

He was a very good player who played the game hard.

Lip

I didn't mind him - he reminded me of a non-leadoff Rick Monday type CF - not particularly fast, but proficient.

It's also true that in those days Chomsky had lines that ran 352 - right behind Wrigley as the deepest corners in the game, making it a real pitchers park, along with it being 385 in the alleys. I just thought of the guy as somewhat bland. I guess he also had the bad luck to play on a fairly mediocre squad. Actually I liked the players I mentioned earlier, plus Hermann a C, Gossage as the closer or whatever they were called back then, and Allen, when healthy at 1B. Still, they never got over the hump after giving the A's a good run for it in 72.

Noneck
12-19-2007, 11:47 PM
I did like when Moose Skowron showed up in the booth occasionally but giving the late Marcel Marceau quantity air time with Harrelson would have been a treat.

JNS
12-20-2007, 12:25 AM
JNS:

Ken Henderson was a Gold Glove winning, 20 home run a year guy at a time when center fielders didn't hit like that around baseball.

He was a very good player who played the game hard.

Lip

Hey Lip - do you have anything with Harry and Satchel Paige? No Neck's comment about Moose as a guest reminded me that Harry would have some great moments when Paige showed up for a sleepy Sunday afternoon game. Great old-time baseball stories and St. Louis stuff. I remember Satchel as being very sharp and witty with good repartee with Harry. When the Sox tried to get a rally going he would refer to his "Tom Thumb" which I think was one of those little bronze Buddhas with a huge ****.

Does anyone else remember Satchel's visits? I think he showed up several times a year for a couple of years. I would imagine it was during the Veeck years - the late 70s.

Dan Mega
12-20-2007, 12:28 AM
Hawk is so pasionate about the SOX, and I still love is "Hawkisims"

"YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD";
YESSSSS
GASSSS
GET ON BACK THERE
STRETCH
DUCKS ON THE POND
CAT-BIRD SEAT
CAN OF CORN
DUCK-SNORT
PICK TO CLICK

I'm missing...........????

"Thats a mattabatacola!"

Or something like that.

Nellie_Fox
12-20-2007, 12:37 AM
Hawk is so pasionate about the SOX, and I still love is "Hawkisims"

"YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD";
YESSSSS
GASSSS
GET ON BACK THERE
STRETCH
DUCKS ON THE POND
CAT-BIRD SEAT
CAN OF CORN
DUCK-SNORT
PICK TO CLICK

I'm missing...........????Grab some bench. Ball four base hit.

Brian26
12-20-2007, 12:58 AM
Of all the Sox broadcasters that you have ever been priveleged to listen to (both on the radio and television), who would you rank as the best in your eyes?

Hawk and Rooney.

johnr1note
12-20-2007, 08:46 AM
This thread rocks.

I came of age with Bob Elson/Red Rush. As a kid, I thought Elson was brutally boring. Rich Linberg refers to him as "the Somnambulist." But compared to the radio team we have today, Elson at least could call the game. And you can get nostalgic for those references to "Friendly Bob Adams," and home runs that were "White Owl Wallops." He was a pro.

I vote for the Harry/Jimmy combo of the early to mid 70s. I don't believe we've ever enjoyed a better broadcast team for both enthusiasm, expertise, and the ability to call a game. Harry, in his prime, was one of the best play by play guys there was, and Jimmy's knowledge and candor was a great asset.

I knew someone would mention Early Wynn. An awful commentator (my favorite quip of his was his comments about having "bees in the bat" on cold days). Anyone remember Del Crandal's on-air style. We have had some really poor announcers over the years.

dooda
12-20-2007, 02:56 PM
Having grown up a Sox fan in Northern Indiana in the early fifties, I have fond memories of Bob Elson and Milo Hamilton. I was overjoyed to find that the White Sox and WCFL were carried by a local FM station here in Orlando.
I spent many evenings listening to the Commander and Milo describing the action.

I remember distinctly the Good Sox playing the Red Sox. Milo was introducing the lineups and finished up by saying "and pitching for the Red Sox tonight will be Mombo(Bill Mombuquette), Cisco(Galen Cisco), and bango!"

It's hard to let go of childhood favorites, but I do like Hawk. I didn't get to hear Harry Carey when he was with the Sox, but didn't care for him when he was with the Cubs.

I look forward to more of Steve Stone as I really like him too.

DickAllen72
12-20-2007, 05:14 PM
Does anyone else remember Satchel's visits? I think he showed up several times a year for a couple of years. I would imagine it was during the Veeck years - the late 70s.
Yep. I remember Satchel and his predictions of a Sox victory that he got from "Tom Thumb". Great times.

I also loved Dizzy Dean's visits to the Sox booth.

JNS
12-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Yep. I remember Satchel and his predictions of a Sox victory that he got from "Tom Thumb". Great times.

I also loved Dizzy Dean's visits to the Sox booth.

I had forgotten about him showing up. One of the advantages of having Harry in the booth and Veeck in the owners box - between them they knew a lot of characters.

I remember Dizzy being as funny as Satchel and that's saying something. Also, those guys went back to the 1920s - they really connected people with baseball history and heritage. They were very special guys.

I know it makes me sound like an old fart - maybe I am - but those were ANNOUNCERS and BALLPLAYERS. Now all we get is phony baloney bs-ers, vapid ex-jocks, canned advertisements, and general vanilla crapola.

I am not a fan of Hawk - he's WAY too proud of himself, and DJ is OK for an untrained ex-jock. Wimpy was OK. Farmer is just awful, and Singleton has been put in a really bad spot - of course he's no good, but the Sox, cheap as ever wanted to get someone who didn't cost anything. He's only an announcer because someone said he was - it has no basis in reality.

Or maybe it's WSCR - I don't know, but radio demands real play-by-play, along with other pertinent info repeated frequently. I spend lots of time in the car pounding my fist on the dashboard shouting "Farmer you St. Rita idiot, WHAT'S THE SCORE DAMMIT?! WHAT INNING IS IT?! WHO IS PITCHING?! WHO IS ON DECK?! I DON'T GIVE A **** WHAT YOUR OPINION OF SOME DUMB TV SHOW IS! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU ATE FOR LUNCH OR HOW GOOD THE HOTEL IS!! PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME GODDAMN BASEBALL INFORMATION!!!!! IF I WANT MINDLESS CHAT AND/OR MORONIC OPINIONS I'LL TUNE IN WLS OR RUSH LIMBAUGH!!!!!!"

roylestillman
12-20-2007, 07:24 PM
I'm old enough to remember the Commander, Bob Elson and I know he was revered, but honest to god it was as exciting as listening to paint dry. The call would go like this: "And now Joe Cunningaham comes to the plate --------------------Ball 1 ------------------------------Ball 2 ----------------------------Strike, 2 and 1 -------------------------Ball 3 --------------------------------..."

It would go on like that all game. Thank god Red Rush showed up in the late 60's to try to fill in the dead air and sing the praises of that good good Gonella bread.

Harry and Jimmy were best.

kba
12-20-2007, 07:39 PM
I remember Dizzy being as funny as Satchel and that's saying something. Also, those guys went back to the 1920s - they really connected people with baseball history and heritage. They were very special guys.

Dizzy had a promo deal with Falstaff beer in the last few years of his life, so he made quite a few guest appearances in the early 70's on Sox telecasts - which Falstaff sponsored.

True story about Dizzy Dean: As a radio broadcaster for the St. Louis Browns in the 1940's, he was always moaning about the team's lousy pitching. At one point, he said on the air that he could pitch a better game than anybody on the roster. (By that time, it had been six years since Dizzy had retired as a player.) Management called his bluff and offered him the chance to suit up and start the last game of the season. Dizzy pitched four shut out innings against the White Sox and singled in his only at-bat. (The Sox rallied in the 9th to win the game 5-2.)

JNS
12-20-2007, 08:37 PM
Dizzy had a promo deal with Falstaff beer in the last few years of his life, so he made quite a few guest appearances in the early 70's on Sox telecasts - which Falstaff sponsored.

True story about Dizzy Dean: As a radio broadcaster for the St. Louis Browns in the 1940's, he was always moaning about the team's lousy pitching. At one point, he said on the air that he could pitch a better game than anybody on the roster. (By that time, it had been six years since Dizzy had retired as a player.) Management called his bluff and offered him the chance to suit up and start the last game of the season. Dizzy pitched four shut out innings against the White Sox and singled in his only at-bat. (The Sox rallied in the 9th to win the game 5-2.)

Dizzy Dean, hanging out with those two lovable losers, the Falstaff cowboys Gabe and Walker!

That's a fantastic story about Dean. I had no idea.

Deans 1947 stats: 1 game, 4 IP ERA: 0.00 BA 1.000

chisoxfanatic
12-20-2007, 10:12 PM
:tomatoaward

DickAllen72
12-20-2007, 10:12 PM
Or maybe it's WSCR - I don't know, but radio demands real play-by-play, along with other pertinent info repeated frequently. I spend lots of time in the car pounding my fist on the dashboard shouting "Farmer you St. Rita idiot, WHAT'S THE SCORE DAMMIT?! WHAT INNING IS IT?! WHO IS PITCHING?! WHO IS ON DECK?! I DON'T GIVE A **** WHAT YOUR OPINION OF SOME DUMB TV SHOW IS! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU ATE FOR LUNCH OR HOW GOOD THE HOTEL IS!! PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME GODDAMN BASEBALL INFORMATION!!!!!"

All I can say to that is....."DITTO!"

Nellie_Fox
12-21-2007, 12:41 AM
I'm old enough to remember the Commander, Bob Elson and I know he was revered, but honest to god it was as exciting as listening to paint dry. The call would go like this: "And now Joe Cunningaham comes to the plate --------------------Ball 1 ------------------------------Ball 2 ----------------------------Strike, 2 and 1 -------------------------Ball 3 --------------------------------..."And in between there'd be the quiet hiss of the radio and the faint murmur of the crowd.

misty60481
12-21-2007, 06:23 AM
I grew up with Bob Elson, he was said to make a trip to McCuddeys in the inning he didnt announce. I remember him talking about the foul ball that landed in Mrs. Comiskeys box. Harry & Jimmy were the best though.

johnr1note
12-21-2007, 09:07 AM
I am not a fan of Hawk - he's WAY too proud of himself, and DJ is OK for an untrained ex-jock. Wimpy was OK. Farmer is just awful, and Singleton has been put in a really bad spot - of course he's no good, but the Sox, cheap as ever wanted to get someone who didn't cost anything. He's only an announcer because someone said he was - it has no basis in reality.

Or maybe it's WSCR - I don't know, but radio demands real play-by-play, along with other pertinent info repeated frequently. I spend lots of time in the car pounding my fist on the dashboard shouting "Farmer you St. Rita idiot, WHAT'S THE SCORE DAMMIT?! WHAT INNING IS IT?! WHO IS PITCHING?! WHO IS ON DECK?! I DON'T GIVE A **** WHAT YOUR OPINION OF SOME DUMB TV SHOW IS! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU ATE FOR LUNCH OR HOW GOOD THE HOTEL IS!! PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME GODDAMN BASEBALL INFORMATION!!!!! IF I WANT MINDLESS CHAT AND/OR MORONIC OPINIONS I'LL TUNE IN WLS OR RUSH LIMBAUGH!!!!!!"

:thumbsup: My sentiments exactly!

JNS
12-21-2007, 10:21 AM
:thumbsup: My sentiments exactly!

I should have left the St. Rita reference out - I know many nice people and several smart ones who went to St. Rita!

But jeez, I have never listened to a so-called play-by-play guy who thinks any of us care about his opinions on anything but baseball more than Farmer. A lot of posts in this thread refer to the taciturn style of the late Bob Elson - and Brickhouse too. That could also be somewhat frustrating, but not like trying to figure out what's going on in a game when you get into the car and turn it on mid-inning. Elson, Brickhouse, Harry, Lloyd, Red Rush, the lot of them gave you the contextual information you needed to listen to the game. Farmer does not. Even at the end of an inning he sometimes fails to give the score or number of hits, errors, etc. in that half-inning. In this, I think he fails basic play-by-play 101. Check out Len Kasper of the Killer (Cu)bees. He's a pro.

I wonder why the use of ex-jocks became to prevalent. Seems to me that the broadcast pros, like Elson, Harry, Brickhouse (who I didn't like, but he certainly was a groundbreaking pro), Vince Lloyd, Jack Quinlin, etc. are far superior than almost all of the ex-players.

An old girlfriend of mine, who was originally from Pittsburgh told me that her Dad - a very old-school steelworker kinda guy - never watched the games on the tube - he felt that he had a better feel for it listening to Bob Prince on the radio. Now THAT'S good announcing - when the voice description trumps the actual pictures on TV. Harry in his prime was that good, as was Lloyd, Elson, Red Rush, and some others. One exception to the ex-jock thing is Steve Stone - he does a really good job. Always intelligent, concise, descriptive, and entertaining. I hope he ends up doing more than Friday nights at home. Hell - I hope he buys the team!

Bucky F. Dent
12-21-2007, 11:16 AM
Or maybe it's WSCR - I don't know, but radio demands real play-by-play, along with other pertinent info repeated frequently. I spend lots of time in the car pounding my fist on the dashboard shouting "Farmer you St. Rita idiot, WHAT'S THE SCORE DAMMIT?! WHAT INNING IS IT?! WHO IS PITCHING?! WHO IS ON DECK?! I DON'T GIVE A **** WHAT YOUR OPINION OF SOME DUMB TV SHOW IS! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU ATE FOR LUNCH OR HOW GOOD THE HOTEL IS!! PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME GODDAMN BASEBALL INFORMATION!!!!! IF I WANT MINDLESS CHAT AND/OR MORONIC OPINIONS I'LL TUNE IN WLS OR RUSH LIMBAUGH!!!!!!"


That rant would be hilarious if it weren't also true.

PaleHoser
12-21-2007, 11:18 AM
John Rooney on radio hands down. I could listen to him all day and night.

Jimmy Piersall was my favorite color man. I learned alot about running the bases and outfield play by listening to him. Man o man did he loooooove Rusty Kuntz...

kaufsox
12-21-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm with the Rooney crowd. The number of great pbp guys seems to be dwindling each year, or I'm just getting old. I remember growing up in Cleveland (not much for baseball commentators, but Joe Tait was fantastic) and searching the AM dial for Ernie Harwell, still my all-time favorite baseball voice. "and lo, the cry of the turtle is heard across the land.":D:

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2007, 03:16 PM
No one comes close to Harry as far as making the dullest game sound like the 7th game of the WS. I do have a soft spot in my heart for Bob Elson who was the exact opposite of Harry, but my transistor radio was under my pillow every night listening to Elson back in the 50s and 60s. Remember; " Thats a White Sox wallop and a box of White Owl Cigars for Orestes Minnie Minoso".

JNS
12-21-2007, 03:17 PM
I'm with the Rooney crowd. The number of great pbp guys seems to be dwindling each year, or I'm just getting old. I remember growing up in Cleveland (not much for baseball commentators, but Joe Tait was fantastic) and searching the AM dial for Ernie Harwell, still my all-time favorite baseball voice. "and lo, the cry of the turtle is heard across the land.":D:

From our summer place on theother side of the lake, near St. Joe Michigan I used to listen to harwell do the Tigers, especially when they were playing the Sox.

"Foul ball, left side, out of play, CAUGHT BY THE LADY FROM HAMTRAMICK IN THE FIRST ROW!"

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2007, 03:56 PM
You only named 4 players so I assumed you were speaking of a penalty killing situation, which I never remember Wharrem on. Wasn't the original scooter line, Mikita , Wharrem and Mohns? It has been a long time, maybe I am wrong. But you brought back some good memory's.
Original Scooter Line: Mikita, Wharram and Ab Mc Donald.
Original Million Dollar Babies Line: Bobby Hull
Red Hay and Murray Balfour.

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2007, 03:58 PM
Jeez, I'm just being a Black hawks doof tonight. I had forgotten him as well, although I remembered Reggie Fleming and Howie Young when thinking about that team.

Hey - who was Elson's #2 before Milo Hamilton on the 60?

I know Elson did every Sox game on the radio from 1929 to the late 60s, when he was replaced by Jack Drees I believe.
Elsons sidekick before Hamilton was Don Wells.

the1tab
12-21-2007, 03:59 PM
Original Scooter Line: Mikita, Wharram and Ab Mc Donald.
Original Million Dollar Babies Line: Bobby Hull
Red Hay and Murray Balfour.


* single tear rolls down cheek

"DJ, I loooooove old time hockey. Blackhawks, YES!"

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2007, 04:16 PM
Harry and Jimmy during the 70s. Harry was in his prime and Jimmy was his wacky yet knowledgeable sidekick. Very entertaining and they told it like it was.

Bob Elson - the Commander was very fluent, smooth, you knew exactly what was happening on the field.

Never cared for Brickhouse, although I respected his enthusiasm and longevity. He had a poor understanding of the game. During the 60s when WGN carried both the Cubs and Sox, he'd do part of the day game at Wrigley, leave around the fifth inning and fly out to wherever the Sox were playing that evening. He'd be alone in the booth for the Sox night game and you'd swear there was something wrong with the volume on your TV set because he'd barely say much of anything for large stretches of time.

I can believe it when someone earlier stated that when Harry entered a bar, the drinks were on him. When Brickhouse entered a bar, he figured everyone owed him a drink. During the late 70s early 80s he frequented a suburban restaurant off Milwaukee Avenue known as the Primeminister. He would sit at a corner table, nurse a few drinks and eat dinner alone. Occasionally someone would send over a drink. He wouldn't even acknowledge it. The waitresses used to rotate serving him because rumor had it he never tipped.

Brickhouse did the Bears games on WBBM radio during the 70s with his partner, Irv Kupcinet. They were both clueless. If you turned the game on TV and turned down the sound, you'd swear Brickhouse and Kupcinet were watching a different game. What was truly amazing is that this went on for years before someone got smart and eased these two out of the booth.

As far as poor announcers go, Jack Dress was great at horseracing but terrible at baseball. Anyone remember Mel Parnell? How about the Lou Brock experiment?
I was a vendor at Comiskey in 1962 and at the Patterson- Liston fight in Sept. Brickhouse bought a 15 cent bag of peanuts from me, gave me a quarter and told me to keep the change, that was a 66% tip. Who said Brick was cheap.

johnr1note
12-21-2007, 05:10 PM
I should have left the St. Rita reference out - I know many nice people and several smart ones who went to St. Rita!

But jeez, I have never listened to a so-called play-by-play guy who thinks any of us care about his opinions on anything but baseball more than Farmer. A lot of posts in this thread refer to the taciturn style of the late Bob Elson - and Brickhouse too. That could also be somewhat frustrating, but not like trying to figure out what's going on in a game when you get into the car and turn it on mid-inning. Elson, Brickhouse, Harry, Lloyd, Red Rush, the lot of them gave you the contextual information you needed to listen to the game. Farmer does not. Even at the end of an inning he sometimes fails to give the score or number of hits, errors, etc. in that half-inning. In this, I think he fails basic play-by-play 101. Check out Len Kasper of the Killer (Cu)bees. He's a pro.

I wonder why the use of ex-jocks became to prevalent. Seems to me that the broadcast pros, like Elson, Harry, Brickhouse (who I didn't like, but he certainly was a groundbreaking pro), Vince Lloyd, Jack Quinlin, etc. are far superior than almost all of the ex-players.

An old girlfriend of mine, who was originally from Pittsburgh told me that her Dad - a very old-school steelworker kinda guy - never watched the games on the tube - he felt that he had a better feel for it listening to Bob Prince on the radio. Now THAT'S good announcing - when the voice description trumps the actual pictures on TV. Harry in his prime was that good, as was Lloyd, Elson, Red Rush, and some others. One exception to the ex-jock thing is Steve Stone - he does a really good job. Always intelligent, concise, descriptive, and entertaining. I hope he ends up doing more than Friday nights at home. Hell - I hope he buys the team!

I've beaten this dead horse to death on this board, but Farmer is simply the worst play by play announcer in MLB today, hands down (and I listen to a lot of games on XM, so I've compared him to what's out there). His montone drone, uninteresting stories, constant dwelling on himself and his world (how many references to Notre Dame, St. Rita, and golf can you cram into a broadcast?), his incredibly stupid observations ("Hey, a bloop and a blast, and we're only 3 runs down!"), and inability to describe the game as it unfolds (chances are, if you tune in mid-game, youíll be lucky to figure out whoís winning) and Chris Singleton gasping for breath as the action unfolds ("its a ground ball (pause -- you can hear crowd cheering) base hit (another pause while crowd cheers) and a run scores (meanwhile, if you're an XM subscriber, you already know this because the score on the display has changed faster than he can describe it). Our radio team is absolutely BRUTAL!!

JNS
12-21-2007, 06:02 PM
Elsons sidekick before Hamilton was Don Wells.

Thanks Nell!

JNS
12-21-2007, 06:04 PM
I was a vendor at Comiskey in 1962 and at the Patterson- Liston fight in Sept. Brickhouse bought a bag 15 cent bag of peanuts from me, gave me a quarter and told me to keep the change, that was a 66% tip. Who said Brick was cheap.


LOL! That must have been a short and lousy night for you anyhow - didn't Liston KO Patterson in the first round?

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2007, 06:12 PM
LOL! That must have been a short and lousy night for you anyhow - didn't Liston KO Patterson in the first round?
Fight lasted just over 2 minutes, people in the ringside seats were furious. Still made $ that night because there were a bunch of prelims.

JNS
12-21-2007, 06:13 PM
I've beaten this dead horse to death on this board, but Farmer is simply the worst play by play announcer in MLB today, hands down (and I listen to a lot of games on XM, so I've compared him to what's out there). His montone drone, uninteresting stories, constant dwelling on himself and his world (how many references to Notre Dame, St. Rita, and golf can you cram into a broadcast?), his incredibly stupid observations ("Hey, a bloop and a blast, and we're only 3 runs down!"), and inability to describe the game as it unfolds (chances are, if you tune in mid-game, youíll be lucky to figure out whoís winning) and Chris Singleton gasping for breath as the action unfolds ("its a ground ball (pause -- you can hear crowd cheering) base hit (another pause while crowd cheers) and a run scores (meanwhile, if you're an XM subscriber, you already know this because the score on the display has changed faster than he can describe it). Our radio team is absolutely BRUTAL!!


I agree. Baseball is uniquely suited to radio. It's too difficult to describe formations, men in motion, and all the other ancillary stuff that occurs even before a play begins in football. It can be done, but it's more difficult to "see" the action through the words of the announcer. With a good announcer doing a baseball game you can really see the action in your mind's eye.

I really like Jim Durham's basketball calls - another example of the Rheinsdorf crowd firing one of the best broadcasters - but there is nothing like listening to a good game, broadcast by an ace play-by-play guy, many of whom have been discussed in this thread. So many posters in this thread have described being a kid and listening to Bob Elson at night. I think it's a memory that all of us old dudes share. And it's such a good memory.

I don't put Rooney in that class, but that's just me - he is very good at his job and is certainly a consummate pro. So why can't the owners of the team we love give us a guy or two who do the job like all the pros we've been talking about? There have to be plenty of them out there. When I'm being over-sensitive or in one of my more intense hate-Rheinsdorf moods, it seems to disrespectful to the fans.

JNS
12-21-2007, 06:18 PM
Fight lasted just over 2 minutes, people in the ringside seats were furious.

I remember my Dad laughing about how a lot of folks missed it altogether if they were a minute or two late.

Liston lived for a short time at 49th and Greenwood. My Mom and one of her friends - we lived about a block from there - rang his bell to welcome him to the neighborhood. This would have right around that time - when he was champ, before Ali rung his bell in a different sense. So Liston answers the door in his bathrobe, takes one look at these two middle-aged housewives and says "I ain't givin nothing" and slams the door.

He was a real thug. My Mom and her friend thought it was pretty funny. He was only there for a few months I think.

WhiteSox Brad
12-26-2007, 11:08 PM
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Rooney was the best. There was nothing better than sitting on the front porch swing with my three young sons on a warm summer evening listening to Rooney and Farmer call another White Sox winner.

Jerome
12-27-2007, 06:09 AM
John Rooney, Hawk least fav. Rooney was awesome.

tick53
12-28-2007, 05:37 PM
Harry Caray
Jimmy Piersall
Jack Drees
Hawk
Rooney
and.............Gussy Wynn (joke)

Least favorite:

Darrin Jackson

Soxfest
12-28-2007, 10:23 PM
I liked Joe McConnell on the radio.

Brian26
12-28-2007, 11:00 PM
I really like Jim Durham's basketball calls - another example of the Rheinsdorf crowd firing one of the best broadcasters - but there is nothing like listening to a good game, broadcast by an ace play-by-play guy, many of whom have been discussed in this thread.

Durham was so damn good with the Bulls that for many years they simulcasted the television feed for the radio broadcast.

Noneck
12-28-2007, 11:26 PM
Durham was so damn good with the Bulls that for many years they simulcasted the television feed for the radio broadcast.
Not many people remember Jack Fleming before Durham on the radio, He was also good.

PalehosePlanet
12-29-2007, 11:50 AM
Gary Thorne.

Ziggy S
12-29-2007, 07:34 PM
Radio-John Rooney hands down
TV-The team of Hawk and Wimpy

Never got to see or hear Harry in his prime with Jimmy on a live broadcast.

PalehosePlanet
12-29-2007, 08:15 PM
and.............Gussy Wynn (joke)



Oh man, Early Wynn was absolutely terrible.

Here's a typical Wynn call: And there is a high fly ball to centerfield....the centerfielder goes back....and the ball is caught! (short pause) By the fan in the 3rd row for a homerun!

He would never call a player by his name, only by position. Sometimes when he was doing games on the radio the listeners could not even figure out how many outs there were. He'd say somthing like: and a nice play by the leftfielder, and you'd assume that's out #1, instead you later figure out --- on your own --- that he meant it was a nice play by the LF'er because he stopped the ball from going to the wall BUT it was already a hit.

Harry, in the late 80's, while with the cubs started doing this too.

cards press box
12-29-2007, 10:04 PM
Radio

With respect to style, I would go with Bob Elson, the "Old Commander." With Elson's play by play, you could close your eyes and see the runner rounding third and heading for home. My personal favorite, though, is Harry Caray, circa 1972. I was sitting in the centerfield bleachers one day in August 1972 when Dick Allen hit that bullet line drive homer off of Lindy McDaniel of the Yankees. Harry was out there, too, with his net. I can remember the fans cheering "Harry's making money, Harry's making money!" Pretty savvy crowd back then. Think anyone chanted anything nearly that edgy to Harry at the Shrine some 20 years later? I doubt it.

T.V.

I'm not sure I have a favorite. Hawk Harrelson and Tom Paciorek were good and, last year, Hawk and Steve Stone were outstanding. In his brief time doing play by play, Jim Durham was excellent. Durham's play by play on WGN is one of may favorite memories of a very fun 1990 season. Just think what might have been if MLB actually policed the steroid driven A's that season. Would the A's, if actually policed, have won 100 some odd games. I wonder.

FloridaSox
12-29-2007, 10:45 PM
I grew up with Bob Elson--he was pretty dry, but I loved the guy. After all. he connected me to the Sox every game.

JNS
12-29-2007, 10:54 PM
Radio

With respect to style, I would go with Bob Elson, the "Old Commander." With Elson's play by play, you could close your eyes and see the runner rounding third and heading for home. My personal favorite, though, is Harry Caray, circa 1972. I was sitting in the centerfield bleachers one day in August 1972 when Dick Allen hit that bullet line drive homer off of Lindy McDaniel of the Yankees. Harry was out there, too, with his net. I can remember the fans cheering "Harry's making money, Harry's making money!" Pretty savvy crowd back then. Think anyone chanted anything nearly that edgy to Harry at the Shrine some 20 years later? I doubt it.

T.V.

I'm not sure I have a favorite. Hawk Harrelson and Tom Paciorek were good and, last year, Hawk and Steve Stone were outstanding. In his brief time doing play by play, Jim Durham was excellent. Durham's play by play on WGN is one of may favorite memories of a very fun 1990 season. Just think what might have been if MLB actually policed the steroid driven A's that season. Would the A's, if actually policed, have won 100 some odd games. I wonder.

I was at that game - it was a bat day Sunday. I was with my kid bro and a bunch of his friends. It won the game and the sell-out crowd went wild.

One of the best games I was ever at. And Allen may have been the most exciting player on the Sox in my lifetime.

cards press box
12-30-2007, 03:32 AM
Dick Allen was my favorite player, too, and the home run off McDaniel that reached the old center field bleachers is still the hardest hit ball that I have ever seen.

TomBradley72
12-30-2007, 12:46 PM
I'd go with three in the booth...so pick three from:

Mary Shane, Del Crandall, JC Martin and Lou Brock.

Lip Man 1
12-30-2007, 12:55 PM
JNS:

You are confusing Allen's center field bleacher shot off McDaniel (August 23, 1972) with his pinch hit home run off Sparky Lyle, the famous "Taco Game" (June 4, 1972).

I was at both games and in fact was sitting about ten feet from Harry when Allen pole axed it into the bleachers.

Which leads me to ask Cards a question. I have the actual audio of Allen's bleacher shot and do not hear any comments about 'Harry making money' during it. Were these comments made before or after Allen's blast? I do not remember this being said during that game and like you I was sitting near Harry on that Wednesday afternoon.

Lip

johnr1note
12-30-2007, 01:58 PM
I agree. Baseball is uniquely suited to radio. It's too difficult to describe formations, men in motion, and all the other ancillary stuff that occurs even before a play begins in football. It can be done, but it's more difficult to "see" the action through the words of the announcer. With a good announcer doing a baseball game you can really see the action in your mind's eye.

I really like Jim Durham's basketball calls - another example of the Rheinsdorf crowd firing one of the best broadcasters - but there is nothing like listening to a good game, broadcast by an ace play-by-play guy, many of whom have been discussed in this thread. So many posters in this thread have described being a kid and listening to Bob Elson at night. I think it's a memory that all of us old dudes share. And it's such a good memory.

I don't put Rooney in that class, but that's just me - he is very good at his job and is certainly a consummate pro. So why can't the owners of the team we love give us a guy or two who do the job like all the pros we've been talking about? There have to be plenty of them out there. When I'm being over-sensitive or in one of my more intense hate-Rheinsdorf moods, it seems to disrespectful to the fans.

I will agree with you again, 100%. When Rooney started with the White Sox, i didn't like him. His voice and inflections struck me as too "cliche" -- almost as if we had Ted Knight in the Sox broadcoast booth. But after years of listening to him, he kind of grew on me, and I think your point is well taken -- while his cliche delivery and sophomoric humor never changed, one thing you had to hand old John, he was a decent play by play guy. My biggest pet peeve with him is that he rarely gave the score -- you had to wait until the end of the inning to invariably find out who was winning. But now that Farmer is the play by play guy, I miss Rooney terribly. Rooney is a craftsmen compared to Farmer, who is nothing but a hack.

JNS
12-30-2007, 02:00 PM
JNS:

You are confusing Allen's center field bleacher shot off McDaniel (August 23, 1972) with his pinch hit home run off Sparky Lyle, the famous "Taco Game" (June 4, 1972).

I was at both games and in fact was sitting about ten feet from Harry when Allen pole axed it into the bleachers.

Which leads me to ask Cards a question. I have the actual audio of Allen's bleacher shot and do not hear any comments about 'Harry making money' during it. Were these comments made before or after Allen's blast? I do not remember this being said during that game and like you I was sitting near Harry on that Wednesday afternoon.

Lip

I stand corrected. In fact, June 4th is my kid brother's birthday, so that would explain why I was stuck with him and a bunch of his friends. it was his 10th birthday - I was 18. I'm obviously getting senile - this is the umpteenth time I've been corrected correctly!

In fact, now that my brain has been jogged I seem to remember that the June game was the second game of a bat-day DH, and Allen came out to hit that homer as a pinch hitter, having been rested by Tanner after the first game.

I also seem to remember a great photo in the paper (I don't remember which one) the next day of Harry in the CF bleachers reaching out with his net to catch Allen's shot. He was shirtless and good and flabby!

Thanks Lip! It's absolutely fantastic that you are around to set the factual record straight. I really appreciate it. Anyhow, Allen tended to hit those knee-high liners to straight-away CF all the time - a high percentage of his 37 dingers landed in the bullpens out there.

Why do you refer to it as the "taco game?"

JNS
12-30-2007, 02:12 PM
I will agree with you again, 100%. When Rooney started with the White Sox, i didn't like him. His voice and inflections struck me as too "cliche" -- almost as if we had Ted Knight in the Sox broadcoast booth. But after years of listening to him, he kind of grew on me, and I think your point is well taken -- while his cliche delivery and sophomoric humor never changed, one thing you had to hand old John, he was a decent play by play guy. My biggest pet peeve with him is that he rarely gave the score -- you had to wait until the end of the inning to invariably find out who was winning. But now that Farmer is the play by play guy, I miss Rooney terribly. Rooney is a craftsmen compared to Farmer, who is nothing but a hack.

Well put. Thanks.

One of my problems with Rooney was, as others have pointed out in this thread was that it was impossible for me to tell Rooney and Hagen apart. I had no idea who I was listening to.

But as you touch on, the present radio guys make the Rooney/Hagen (or Rooney and anyone, even Farmer when he just did color) seem like the best of the best.

And as I said before, those memories of being ten and listening to the game after lights out on the cheap tinny 6-transistor radios that were around back then are priceless. I hope kids today will be able to have the same sorts of memories.

My family has a Summer cabin in Michigan on the other side of the lake. I just remember laying in the upper bunk, with the crickets and katydids humming and chirping, while The Commander and Smiling Milo called the games; Peters, Pizarro, or Horlen and that banjo offense, and drifting off to sleep with the strains of Bob extolling the virtues of going to Friendly Bob Adams (THE MAN WITH NO FACE!!!!) of General Finance for ones usurious-interest, small loan needs.

kba
12-30-2007, 09:26 PM
I also seem to remember a great photo in the paper (I don't remember which one) the next day of Harry in the CF bleachers reaching out with his net to catch Allen's shot. He was shirtless and good and flabby!

The photo was taken by Bob Langer and ran on the back page of the Sun-Times. I remember they added a little arrow to make it easier to see where the ball was. (This was in the days when newspaper photos were all black-and-white.) When I was a kid, I cut that photo out of the paper and had it in a scrap book for a while.

FarWestChicago
12-30-2007, 09:38 PM
Thanks Lip! It's absolutely fantastic that you are around to set the factual record straight. I really appreciate it. Anyhow, Allen tended to hit those knee-high liners to straight-away CF all the time - a high percentage of his 37 dingers landed in the bullpens out there.Lip is a phenomenon of nature. He's like a walking Google/Smithsonian of Sox knowledge. :cool:

FarWestChicago
12-30-2007, 09:41 PM
Dick Allen was my favorite player, too, and the home run off McDaniel that reached the old center field bleachers is still the hardest hit ball that I have ever seen.It seems most of us old enough to have seen him play have yet to see any 'roid beast hit a ball as hard as Dick Allen. :nod:

Lip Man 1
12-30-2007, 09:54 PM
JNS:

June 4, 1972- Yankees at White Sox #2 Final Record: 87 - 67

In every successful season there is a defining moment. This was the first of three such moments for Dick Allen. Itís one of the greatest moments in the history of the franchise. The Sox had already won Game #1 of the Sunday double header before a sellout. In Game #2, the Sox trailed 4-2 in the 9th inning before coming to life. With two men on Ralph Houk brought in "Sparky" Lyle the top relief pitcher in the American League, White Sox manager Chuck Tanner countered with Allen who was sitting out Game #2, the first time he hadnít been in the lineup all season. This was the game where Mike Andrews, standing on first base, yelled at Lyle, his old roommate with the Red Sox, "Sparky...youíre in deep **** now!" And he really was! With two out Allen took a strike and a ball before rocketing a blast into the lower deck in left field, winning the game 5-4. The crowd (of whom I was a part of) refused to leave Comiskey Park, standing, shouting and hollering for almost thirty minutes after the game ended. It was a giddy, heady feeling not seen on the South Side since 1967. Here is the call of the playfrom the Yankees standpoint. Phil Rizzuto and Frank Messer have it. Courtesy: WABC.
Let Me Hear It! (http://flyingsock.com/RealAudio/70s05.rm)

It was called the Taco Game (and this was confirmed to me by both Ed Herrmann and Bill Melton) because when Tanner called on Dick in the 9th inning he was NOT in the dugout. They looked in the clubhouse and he wasn't there either. The clubhouse boys finally found him at a taco stand across the street from Comiskey Park in FULL UNIFORM (except for his long sleeve undershirt) getting some taco's. They rushed back into the park (he didn't have time to put his undershirt on), he grabbed a bat, walked up to the plate and hammered the pitch to win the game.

Lip

JNS
12-30-2007, 10:10 PM
JNS:

June 4, 1972- Yankees at White Sox #2 Final Record: 87 - 67

In every successful season there is a defining moment. This was the first of three such moments for Dick Allen. Itís one of the greatest moments in the history of the franchise. The Sox had already won Game #1 of the Sunday double header before a sellout. In Game #2, the Sox trailed 4-2 in the 9th inning before coming to life. With two men on Ralph Houk brought in "Sparky" Lyle the top relief pitcher in the American League, White Sox manager Chuck Tanner countered with Allen who was sitting out Game #2, the first time he hadnít been in the lineup all season. This was the game where Mike Andrews, standing on first base, yelled at Lyle, his old roommate with the Red Sox, "Sparky...youíre in deep **** now!" And he really was! With two out Allen took a strike and a ball before rocketing a blast into the lower deck in left field, winning the game 5-4. The crowd (of whom I was a part of) refused to leave Comiskey Park, standing, shouting and hollering for almost thirty minutes after the game ended. It was a giddy, heady feeling not seen on the South Side since 1967. Here is the call of the playfrom the Yankees standpoint. Phil Rizzuto and Frank Messer have it. Courtesy: WABC.
Let Me Hear It! (http://flyingsock.com/RealAudio/70s05.rm)

It was called the Taco Game (and this was confirmed to me by both Ed Herrmann and Bill Melton) because when Tanner called on Dick in the 9th inning he was NOT in the dugout. They looked in the clubhouse and he wasn't there either. The clubhouse boys finally found him at a taco stand across the street from Comiskey Park in FULL UNIFORM (except for his long sleeve undershirt) getting some taco's. They rushed back into the park (he didn't have time to put his undershirt on), he grabbed a bat, walked up to the plate and hammered the pitch to win the game.

Lip

Love it! I have heard - I don't remember who told me - that Ruth used to run out of the first base dugout, across 35th to McCuddy's to slug one down, while in uniform. Have you heard that?

Allen really brought life back to the South Side. 1969 and 70 were the pits. Tanner and Hemond brought hope back, but Allen was the greatest. To he he's responsible for getting me back with the Sox after a few years off. The beginning of my alienation was when "Stinky" Stanky was manager. After have the mannerly and classy Lopez my entire life up till then, Stanky was a rude shock. I remember Allen writing BOO and HOORAY with his spikes in front of 1st when bored. I was told he started that in Philly, where the brutal fans rode him nonstop. I remember he also used a red rubber ball for the infield tosses between innings.

Lip - as the year turns you have brought back some very sweet memories. My wife (who I was over 20 years away from meeting) was at that game too, with her older brothers.

Brian26
12-30-2007, 11:28 PM
Lip is a phenomenon of nature. He's like a walking Google/Smithsonian of Sox knowledge. :cool:

The last few posts with JNS, johnrnote and Lip have been phenomenal reading. Great stuff.

It seems most of us old enough to have seen him play have yet to see any 'roid beast hit a ball as hard as Dick Allen. :nod:


Allen's the one guy I really regret not having a chance to see play because I was too young, and I think I missed out.

JNS
12-30-2007, 11:33 PM
It seems most of us old enough to have seen him play have yet to see any 'roid beast hit a ball as hard as Dick Allen. :nod:

Absolutely *$%*@!m #@*&#!****ing right.

I really regretted how constant injuries and the Sox lack of funds under the Allyn family truncated his career here.

Good 1st baseman too, although he just couldn't turn a 3-6-3 DP. He always - as in every time - hit the lead runner in the back.

BainesHOF
12-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Dick not only liked the horses, but his doo wop, too. His autobiography is a cool read. He'd have the trainer put a couple cans of beer in the paper towel holder in the clubhouse bathroom for him to drink during the game. When I brought that up at a signing, he denied doing it - and he's the one who wrote it! Of course, at the time, he was trying to get back into baseball.

A friend wrote a book ranking the best players not in the Hall of Fame and Dick was No. 1.

DickAllen72
12-31-2007, 12:09 AM
Absolutely *$%*@!m #@*&#!****ing right.

I really regretted how constant injuries and the Sox lack of funds under the Allyn family truncated his career here.

Good 1st baseman too, although he just couldn't turn a 3-6-3 DP. He always - as in every time - hit the lead runner in the back.
He had no feeling in a few of his fingers on his throwing hand. Story goes that he was pushing his car one rainy night and his hand slipped off the front fender and went right through the headlight, cutting his wrist and severing some nerves.

Anyway, it's true about how hard he hit the ball. Most of his home runs were line drives that just kept carrying out over the wall, many in right-center.

FarWestChicago
12-31-2007, 12:11 AM
The last few posts with JNS, johnrnote and Lip have been phenomenal reading. Great stuff. That was good stuff. :smile:

FarWestChicago
12-31-2007, 12:17 AM
Anyway, it's true about how hard he hit the ball. Most of his home runs were line drives that just kept carrying out over the wall, many in right-center.They were just howling, screaming line drives. I saw him hit doubles off the wall that never got more than 5 feet off the ground. I may be delusional, but I think I saw him hold himself to a single once because his frozen rope hit an outfield wall and bounced back to an infielder.

Brian26
12-31-2007, 12:23 AM
He had no feeling in a few of his fingers on his throwing hand. Story goes that he was pushing his car one rainy night and his hand slipped off the front fender and went right through the headlight, cutting his wrist and severing some nerves.

Now we need to find out what Frank Thomas' excuse is. He's never been able to turn that DP either. :D:

JNS
12-31-2007, 01:30 AM
He had no feeling in a few of his fingers on his throwing hand. Story goes that he was pushing his car one rainy night and his hand slipped off the front fender and went right through the headlight, cutting his wrist and severing some nerves.

Anyway, it's true about how hard he hit the ball. Most of his home runs were line drives that just kept carrying out over the wall, many in right-center.

I believe this is a true story. I heard the same. plus he was pushing the car uphill.

I agree with all of you re. the power and velocity of his drives. He used a big fat bat.

Whoever made the comment about how he'd never seen any of the roided out guys hit anything nearly as hard is so right.

To me, Allen and Reggie Jackson are two of the best advertisements for the class and quality of power hitting in the recent pre-roid era.

Nellie_Fox
12-31-2007, 02:14 AM
Now we need to find out what Frank Thomas' excuse is. He's never been able to turn that DP either. :D:A college football shoulder injury.

RadioheadRocks
12-31-2007, 02:49 AM
Does anyone remember Bob Waller? He was Harry's side-kick in his early days with the Sox - 71 and 72 I think. Then he went elsewhere and was replaced by (I think) Bob Mercer.

I notice there hasn't been one mention of poor old Lorn Brown. Well, maybe there is a reason for that!


From what I remember, Bob Waller was Harry's sidekick in 1973 and 1974.

Lorn Brown was one of my favorites on the radio throughout the 80s. I remember Del Crandall started out pretty rough but he got better as time went on. I'll always remember the Big Payoff Inning on WMAQ... my aunt was picked once and Jerry Hairston ended up grounding out, so she got the consolation prize of a box of Glenmark Cookout Burgers.

Do any tapes of Mary Shane exist? She was the first woman MLB announcer that Veeck hired in 1977.

She later became a NBA beat reporter for the Worcester Telegram and sadly died of a heart attack 20 years ago.

Long bio on Mary Shane

http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=1558&pid=19538

Thanks so much for the link on Mary Shane... was trying to find information on her via Google and many other searches and I didn't have much success. Pics are quite rare but if you have Dan Helpingstine's book South Side Hit Men or a 1977 White Sox program you'll get a glimpse of Mary.

24thStFan
12-31-2007, 09:23 AM
Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall. I used to tune in just to hear those guys. They were classic.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-31-2007, 12:09 PM
John Rooney.

I never liked him in the TV booth, but he grew into a truly great radio play-by-play man. He even made Ed Farmer tolerable.

Sorely missed...
:(:

Save McCuddy's
12-31-2007, 12:17 PM
Dick not only liked the horses, but his doo wop, too. His autobiography is a cool read. He'd have the trainer put a couple cans of beer in the paper towel holder in the clubhouse bathroom for him to drink during the game. When I brought that up at a signing, he denied doing it - and he's the one who wrote it! Of course, at the time, he was trying to get back into baseball.

A friend wrote a book ranking the best players not in the Hall of Fame and Dick was No. 1.


Anyone remember him smoking in the field at first base? I also recall that he'd write swear words in the dirt with his cleats between pitches.

JNS
12-31-2007, 01:08 PM
Anyone remember him smoking in the field at first base? I also recall that he'd write swear words in the dirt with his cleats between pitches.

I don't remember him smoking on the field, but in the dugout yes.

I just remember BOO and HORAAY in the dirt. They don't make 'em like that any more - great player, great character.

Save McCuddy's
12-31-2007, 01:36 PM
In his honor, I used to smoke at 1st base in an Oz Park 16" league just after college. That must be where I'm misremembering that from.

white sox bill
12-31-2007, 02:34 PM
Wasn't it Red Rush who would say "How sweet it is!" after a Sox homer?

Chrisaway
12-31-2007, 02:51 PM
I gotta go with Rooney on this one thou I do remember loving the Hawk when I was younger.

cards press box
12-31-2007, 07:53 PM
JNS:

You are confusing Allen's center field bleacher shot off McDaniel (August 23, 1972) with his pinch hit home run off Sparky Lyle, the famous "Taco Game" (June 4, 1972).

I was at both games and in fact was sitting about ten feet from Harry when Allen pole axed it into the bleachers.

Which leads me to ask Cards a question. I have the actual audio of Allen's bleacher shot and do not hear any comments about 'Harry making money' during it. Were these comments made before or after Allen's blast? I do not remember this being said during that game and like you I was sitting near Harry on that Wednesday afternoon.

Lip


Lip, I don't remember when the crowd started chanting "Harry's making money." I asked my brother, who was also there, and he thinks it was after the 7th inning stretch. Actually, I don't remember the inning in which Allen hit the homer. Was it the 7th?

Lip Man 1
12-31-2007, 09:07 PM
Cards:

Yes it was.

White Sox Bill:

Yes it was. By the way go to this link and click on the audio highlights from 1970 if you want to hear it again:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=14&id=2361

Lip

kba
12-31-2007, 10:15 PM
Wasn't it Red Rush who would say "How sweet it is!" after a Sox homer?

Red Rush had a bunch of rhymes he would work into his play-by-play. A double play was "6-4-3; how sweet it can be!" And - when he was announcing basketball: "Swisheroo! He's got two!"

Nellie_Fox
01-01-2008, 12:35 AM
Red Rush had a bunch of rhymes he would work into his play-by-play. A double play was "6-4-3; how sweet it can be!" And - when he was announcing basketball: "Swisheroo! He's got two!"And don't forget the plug for the sponsor, Gonella Bread: "swella fella, just like gonella!"

PaleHoseGeorge
01-01-2008, 12:54 PM
Red Rush had a bunch of rhymes he would work into his play-by-play. A double play was "6-4-3; how sweet it can be!" And - when he was announcing basketball: "Swisheroo! He's got two!"

And don't forget the plug for the sponsor, Gonella Bread: "swella fella, just like gonella!"

Wasn't it Red Rush who would say "How sweet it is!" after a Sox homer?


Wow, you guys are really old!

:tongue:

JNS
01-01-2008, 02:14 PM
Wow, you guys are really old!

:tongue:

Not as old as Friendly Bob Adams - he's so old his face fell off. If you don't believe me, check out the old ads for General Finance. There's Friendly Bob, sans face, talking on the phone (hard to do without a mouth).

And what about Gabe and Walker, the two old Falstaff cowboys? They're ancient!

The Old Mick
01-01-2008, 05:15 PM
Is there a summary of the favorite announcers?

we be jake
01-04-2008, 10:36 AM
Steve Stone/ Brickhouse - can you say Somenex?

Then throw in Drysdale .....zzzzzzzzzzz


The Best:

1. Harry
2. Vince
3. Lloyd
4. Jimmy
5. Hawk

we be jake
01-04-2008, 10:43 AM
I don't remember him smoking on the field, but in the dugout yes.

I just remember BOO and HORAAY in the dirt. They don't make 'em like that any more - great player, great character.



He also often wrote "SOX" in the dirt - but for several days when he was upset with someone ( press, management...I don't recall) he wrote swear words... as in the ones that start with "F" and "Y". It was clear to see even on TV.

TomBradley72
01-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Favorite announcing teams:

Caray/Waller: They really had great chemistry...and were very funny...then all of a sudden Waller was gone. Never understood why.
Caray/Piersall: The only announcing team would have you watching almost exclusively so you could hear them. (Teams were mostly horrible)
Harrelson/Paciorek: Hilarious, likable.
Rooney/Farmer: Classic, knowledgable.

Lip Man 1
01-08-2008, 05:45 PM
Tom:

Look earlier in this thread and you'll find your answer about Bob Waller and why he left.

Lip