PDA

View Full Version : Another reliever off the market


munchman33
12-18-2007, 05:37 PM
Matt Wise signed with the Mets today, according to mlbtraderumors.

I'm beginning to think that when Kenny talked about how the bullpen was a "priority," he only meant in the sense that we'd get one piece to fill the five holes we had and just plug in the same pieces of **** into those other four holes next year.

That's okay. The only other holes we have are in the outfield, the starting rotation, and the top of the lineup. We'll be fine.

sox1970
12-18-2007, 05:42 PM
Who the **** is Matt Wise?

munchman33
12-18-2007, 06:06 PM
Who the **** is Matt Wise?

One of the few decent relievers left on the market. And we're not getting Dotel because he's looking to close.

Meaning, we aren't getting any more relievers, unless we make a trade. And, as we should have already learned this offseason, we don't have anything anyone wants. So we aren't dealing for a decent reliever, either.

JB98
12-18-2007, 06:10 PM
Matt Wise had an ERA over 4 in the NL Central last year. While the status quo of the Sox bullpen doesn't look pretty, I'm not sure this guy would have provided us with an upgrade over in-house options.

munchman33
12-18-2007, 06:22 PM
Matt Wise had an ERA over 4 in the NL Central last year. While the status quo of the Sox bullpen doesn't look pretty, I'm not sure this guy would have provided us with an upgrade over in-house options.

Barely over four, at 4.19. And he was in the 3's the previous two years.

The most telling stat? He had 13 holds last year, and only blew one save. He was exactly the kind of guy we needed. He pitched well when it mattered.

DumpJerry
12-18-2007, 06:32 PM
Munchman, if Billy Koch tomorrow suddenly signed with a team other than the White Sox, I'm convinced you would use it as an excuse to execute Kenny at dawn without breakfast.

We get it. You're not real happy with Kenny and there is nothing he can do to change that short of resigning from the White Sox.

chisoxmike
12-18-2007, 06:34 PM
Munchman, if Billy Koch tomorrow suddenly signed with a team other than the White Sox, I'm convinced you would use it as an excuse to execute Kenny at dawn without breakfast.

We get it. You're not real happy with Kenny and there is nothing he can do to change that short of resigning from the White Sox.

Are you happy with the current state of the bullpen? Because I'm not.

munchman33
12-18-2007, 06:37 PM
Munchman, if Billy Koch tomorrow suddenly signed with a team other than the White Sox, I'm convinced you would use it as an excuse to execute Kenny at dawn without breakfast.

We get it. You're not real happy with Kenny and there is nothing he can do to change that short of resigning from the White Sox.

I don't have a problem with Kenny. I have a problem with alluding to competing with the inferior product we're going to have. I'd rather blow it all up. I don't want to have some fans in the seats for half a season just to win 70 games with an expensive team. I'd much rather have no fans in the seats, win 70 games, and have a ton of talent on the horizon.

Kenny could have done things to compete. They didn't happen, and there are no other options. Now it's time to concede. Look to 2009-10. Because if we don't start looking to 2009-10 now, we'll have to start looking at 2011-12.

DumpJerry
12-18-2007, 06:37 PM
Are you happy with the current state of the bullpen? Because I'm not.
That's not what I was saying. I'm just saying that Munchman keeps beating the same old dead horse over and over.....

munchman33
12-18-2007, 06:39 PM
That's not what I was saying. I'm just saying that Munchman keeps beating the same old dead horse over and over.....

Well, when there's fuel...

Tragg
12-18-2007, 07:01 PM
Do you really want him using resources to sign middle relievers? They're just as liable to join the bin of MacDougal, Sisco and Aardsma.

JB98
12-18-2007, 07:04 PM
Barely over four, at 4.19. And he was in the 3's the previous two years.

The most telling stat? He had 13 holds last year, and only blew one save. He was exactly the kind of guy we needed. He pitched well when it mattered.

Holds are bull**** statistics. How many save opportunities did he have?

I know this: Yost used Turnbow and Linebrink, not Wise, in the seventh and eighth innings of a lot of close games down the stretch last year.

CLR01
12-18-2007, 07:20 PM
Are you happy with the current state of the bullpen? Because I'm not.

Did you forget about 2005?

chisoxmike
12-18-2007, 07:28 PM
Did you forget about 2005?

Just like '05, man!

Hokiesox
12-18-2007, 09:33 PM
Holds are bull**** statistics. How many save opportunities did he have?

I know this: Yost used Turnbow and Linebrink, not Wise, in the seventh and eighth innings of a lot of close games down the stretch last year.

and they were stellar down the stretch. However, I don't support Munchman's idea.

champagne030
12-18-2007, 09:44 PM
Holds are bull**** statistics. How many save opportunities did he have?

I know this: Yost used Turnbow and Linebrink, not Wise, in the seventh and eighth innings of a lot of close games down the stretch last year.

I don't know whether Wise is the answer, but please do not use Yost as an example of how to use a bullpen. :D:

goon
12-18-2007, 10:27 PM
Why would you want Williams to sign Matt ****ing Wise? Anyone disappointed with this "non-move" has probably never seen Wise pitch... this is nothing to be discouraged about. Hunter, M. Cabrera, sure, Matt Wise? Please.

the1tab
12-18-2007, 11:45 PM
Matt Wise sucks and is going to get paid because he put up some nice numbers on a team that never had pressure on it and never in a relatively clutch situation. Good for the Mets for throwing money at another guy that will probably be out of baseball within 3 years. Couldn't happen to a nicer franchise.

That being said, and I am not saying Wise was the answer, I am not thrilled w/ the current state of our bullpen. Last year we tried to get as many guys that could hit 100 on the gun as we could and hoped Coop could teach them all to pitch. They all needed to hit/finish puberty first, and most of them didn't. Linebrink isn't going to make you sit up and look under the "Bank to be Named Later but Formerly LaSalle Bank" sign in RF to see the mph. The issue I have is that, even w/ Linebrink, the only guy I have faith in down there is still Jenks. There's a lot of talent, but I'm not sure how much is between the ears collectively. This year's free agent market for pitching is AWEFUL, but I would like to at least hear that the Sox are actively pursuing a deal. Ever since Kenny got no-hit by the market like Texas vs. Buehrle (excited to watch the rerun on Christmas Day on Comcast), it seems like we're in hibernation.

I guess my biggest beef right now is, although I like the upgrade at SS, I feel like Garland was our most marketable trade piece, and it seems to me like Kenny counted his chickens before an egg had cracked when he pulled the trigger on the Anaheim deal and when Hunter walked he was left with nothing.

ksimpson14
12-19-2007, 01:37 AM
After that winter meetings interview on whitesox.com, Kenny went through his needs and said something like 'we got 2 out of 3' needs, I really hope he's not serious and think the bullpen gets fixed by 1 guy, who isn't even a sure thing either

Honestly, I think it's time to blow it all up. This team will be too frustrating, especially to know in the back of your mind there's no chance they get to the playoffs, and there's not a ton of light in the minors. I have decided I'd much rather see 2000, kids can play, mode. Just keep Buehrle and Jenks, may be a lot of the pen since it seems to be the hardest to rebuild, but yes, might as well trade guys like Konerko and get some good talent. Even Thome. If noone takes Dye, he can move to DH.

Mohoney
12-19-2007, 05:57 AM
Do you really want him using resources to sign middle relievers? They're just as liable to join the bin of MacDougal, Sisco and Aardsma.

At this point, what else is left to use the resources on?

The marquee CF guys are gone, and the bullpen was (by far) our weakest link last year, so I guess my answer to your question is a resounding yes.

Even if whoever is brought in does end up in the bin of rejects, at least I can be happy knowing that a legitimate effort was made to fix this huge problem.

Foulke You
12-19-2007, 07:46 PM
I'd much rather have no fans in the seats, win 70 games, and have a ton of talent on the horizon.
Even if the Sox could collect "tons of talent" by blowing up their team this year. Having no fans watching the games in the ballpark and on TV would cripple this franchise for the coming seasons. Any talented players we manage to cultivate wouldn't be re-signed by the team because they'll have no revenue coming in. You can blow a team up in a 1 team town but not in Chicago. We have to compete with the Cubs for the hearts, minds, and pocketbooks of the casual fans who fence sit or have no specific allegiance to one side. The Cubs are in a very easy division and will contend again next year. A couple years of 72W-90L ball on the south side would rewind the Sox to pre-2005 levels of ratings and attendance thus killing the club financially.

The Sox need to do it like the Braves and not like the Marlins. Wrap the up and coming younger talent around a core of solid veterans. That formula worked in Atlanta for many years. Josh Fields is a good start. If Quentin can become a key contributor next year, that is another step in the right direction.

Lip Man 1
12-19-2007, 07:47 PM
Foulke:

Not debating your point but many in the Sox organization honestly feel they are NOT competing with the Cubs.

Personally I think that's part of the problem but that's just me.

Lip

btrain929
12-19-2007, 07:54 PM
I wonder if Kenny considered Ron Mahay at all. He'd be a veteran lefty in the pen. The contract he received wasn't too bad. Him and Linebrink could have given the Sox bullpen the seniority and consistency we've been looking for. Ehhh.....whatever.

soxinem1
12-19-2007, 09:00 PM
I wonder if Kenny considered Ron Mahay at all. He'd be a veteran lefty in the pen. The contract he received wasn't too bad. Him and Linebrink could have given the Sox bullpen the seniority and consistency we've been looking for. Ehhh.....whatever.

$4 million a year for a guy who has worn more uniforms than a janitor? If that's the case, I'd have given it to Vizcaino.

Better yet, how may full seasons has Mahay spent in MLB?

Just like giving Carlos Silva $11 million a year, this **** is nuts....

Lip Man 1
12-19-2007, 09:46 PM
Sox:

That's the new reality in a sport awash with money. Better get used to it.

Lip

spiffie
12-19-2007, 10:50 PM
$4 million a year for a guy who has worn more uniforms than a janitor? If that's the case, I'd have given it to Vizcaino.

Better yet, how may full seasons has Mahay spent in MLB?

Just like giving Carlos Silva $11 million a year, this **** is nuts....
It's crazy. After all, Mike Schmidt never made more than 2.25 million a year, so anyone not as good as him shouldn't either dammit!

goon
12-19-2007, 11:14 PM
It's crazy. After all, Mike Schmidt never made more than 2.25 million a year, so anyone not as good as him shouldn't either dammit!

What does that have to do with bad baseball players getting expensive contracts? The "that's the way the market is and GM's have to get used to it," argument becoming irritating. I'm glad some organizations aren't handing out ridiculous contracts to players that don't deserve them, the ones that are will probably be burned by it. I'm not saying the market will correct itself or whatever some have preached, but it's absurd the length some clubs have gone to sign mediocre players.

Lip Man 1
12-20-2007, 09:45 AM
Goon:

It's basically supply and demand at work particularly with pitchers which are in very very short supply.

Lip

munchman33
12-20-2007, 09:49 AM
Goon:

It's basically supply and demand at work particularly with pitchers which are in very very short supply.

Lip

Not to mention, guys that throw innings with an era in the 4's are not as common as some of these people complaining would lead you to believe.

Truth is, we've only got two guys in our rotation that are reasonable bets to do that. Not saying they won't, but they're not exactly a great bet. That's why Silva is getting what he's getting.

pierzynski07
12-20-2007, 10:32 AM
$4 million a year for a guy who has worn more uniforms than a janitor? If that's the case, I'd have given it to Vizcaino.

Better yet, how may full seasons has Mahay spent in MLB?

Just like giving Carlos Silva $11 million a year, this **** is nuts....
How many uniforms does a janitor wear anyway?

goon
12-20-2007, 11:14 AM
Goon:

It's basically supply and demand at work particularly with pitchers which are in very very short supply.

Lip

That's a good point, Lip. Also, most of the teams that are handing out big contracts to mediocre players are organizations with +$100 million payrolls, so what does it matter if they overspend?