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wcw2323
12-18-2007, 07:36 AM
What has happened to Charlie? Last year at this time he was talked up all over this forum as a potential #5 starter in competition with Danks and Floyd. He had a poor W-L at Charlotte, but finished very strong in the second half (I think his ERA was around 3.00, but had poor run support)
This guy had two consecutive 14 win seasons in AA and AAA and was an All-Star at each stop.
Why isn't he ever mentioned on this or any forum? I think he would be a great back of the rotation innings eater....or he may be trade bait...any info?

julio-cruz
12-18-2007, 08:54 AM
He seems to have problems throwing strikes consistently. His knuckleball has too much uncontrollable movement. Plus, A.J. takes a while to frame a strike zone for the umpire. Will make strikes look like balls, because he will drop a pitch that is in the zone. Well see. I would like to see him start too, because he would save many innings on the bullpen's arms. Unfortunately at this point I think he is a throw in on a trade for someone like CoCo Crisp.

soxinem1
12-18-2007, 11:01 AM
He seems to have problems throwing strikes consistently. His knuckleball has too much uncontrollable movement. Plus, A.J. takes a while to frame a strike zone for the umpire. Will make strikes look like balls, because he will drop a pitch that is in the zone. Well see. I would like to see him start too, because he would save many innings on the bullpen's arms. Unfortunately at this point I think he is a throw in on a trade for someone like CoCo Crisp.

Great! Then Wakefield can tutor him to refine his craft and win 13-16 games a year!

Domeshot17
12-18-2007, 11:11 AM
If you have a knuckler you have to have a catcher who can catch it. We don't. I was at Charlie's debut against the angels, and AJ was killing him by being unable to stick the ball and dropped several close pitches where catching it may have meant strike 3. Its why the Red Sox pay so much for that bum Mirabelli, because at least he can catch a knuckleball.

kittle42
12-18-2007, 11:15 AM
Now that's what this offseason was missing - the discussion of yet another of my favorite crappy Sox farmhands overrated by a group of posters on WSI.

Domeshot17
12-18-2007, 11:26 AM
Now that's what this offseason was missing - the discussion of yet another of my favorite crappy Sox farmhands overrated by a group of posters on WSI.

To be fair, how over rated can he be? We had Dewon Day and Ryan freakin Butkvich in our bullpen last year

BainesHOF
12-18-2007, 11:51 AM
Haeger shouldn't be in our picture anymore because everytime he comes up to the Big Leagues he pitches poorly. Trick me once, shame on you, twice me twice...

Or as W. once said, "You can't get fooled again."

wcw2323
12-18-2007, 02:59 PM
First and foremost, Charlie is a starter. He has had only one start in his short MLB career which was back in May '06. A fair evaluation of his talent needs to happen in a starter role. He has actually performed pretty well in his relief appearances. He has had some outstanding appearances and he had a few poor outings late last year against NY, but overall he has not perfromed poorly. His challenge next Spring is that his knuckler does not perform with optimum movement in the dry Tucson air. He would be better off trying to break into a lineup with a Florida based spring training site.

kittle42
12-18-2007, 08:21 PM
He would be better off trying to break into a lineup with a Florida based spring training site.

Agreed. Can we make sure he does?

Optipessimism
12-18-2007, 09:16 PM
Agreed. Can we make sure he does?
He's pretty far down on the depth chart as it is, so I don't think we have to worry.... unless of course Ozzie likes him. Then we're ****ed.

I know there are those out there who love knucklers, but the idea of more SB's against us, more walks, more WP's, more passed balls, and tons of baserunners as a whole doesn't excite me. The Cell + lots of baserunners + the fact that when the guy on the mound gets in trouble he has to throw an 85mph straight-as-an-arrow fastball = :o:.

We're going to have to watch Gavin Floyd pitch out of the stretch next year, and that's already going to be scary enough as it is.

chisoxmike
12-18-2007, 09:27 PM
Why isn't he ever mentioned on this or any forum? I think he would be a great back of the rotation innings eater....or he may be trade bait...any info?

He's mentioned quite a lot around here, for some reason. He's not very good. At all. Hopefully he stays in AAA.

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2007, 09:28 PM
Here's a series of questions for Daver (or ondafarm, if he's back among us):

There has been some talk on WSI (mostly speculation) of the Sox considering signing Miguel Olivo off the free agent scrap heap.

If so, would Olivo be able to catch a knuckle ball well? I know he may not have had much experience doing so, but is he good enough defensively that one would think he could handle it?

I know one of the knocks against Olivo was that he reportedly wasn't terribly good at calling pitches and that so many of the Sox pitchers preferred to work with Sandy Alomar. But when a knuckleball pitcher is on the mound, does the catcher really need to call pitches? A knuckler is a knuckler, right? The whole idea is that no one really knows where it will end up; it's just hoped that it ends up in the strike zone and/or the hitter flails away at it.

If I'm right, perhaps signing Olivo would make Haeger a realistic option as a starter. It would be great to sandwich him in between Vazquez and Contreras in the rotation, because in a three-game series opposing hitters would have a difficult time making an adjustment from game to game. Also, having a starter like Haeger might make fireballers like MacDougal and Thornton more effective out of the pen in the 7th and 8th innings.

Optipessimism
12-18-2007, 09:39 PM
^
Olivo has at least probably improved since being dealt.

There are two rotation slots available. Why would the Sox pick up a backup catcher just to carry a starting pitcher who is below Danks, Floyd, Gio, Ebgert, Broadway, and maybe even Nick Masset on the depth chart?

If the Sox really thought Haeger had a future here I think we would have seen more of him last year.

DSpivack
12-18-2007, 09:50 PM
^
Olivo has at least probably improved since being dealt.

There are two rotation slots available. Why would the Sox pick up a backup catcher just to carry a starting pitcher who is below Danks, Floyd, Gio, Ebgert, Broadway, and maybe even Nick Masset on the depth chart?

If the Sox really thought Haeger had a future here I think we would have seen more of him last year.

If they have any notions at all that Haegar would be in the rotation, you have to have a catcher than can catch him; many have said this. AJ has shown he can't do that--can Hall?

Frater Perdurabo
12-18-2007, 10:44 PM
If the Sox really thought Haeger had a future here I think we would have seen more of him last year.

If they have any notions at all that Haegar would be in the rotation, you have to have a catcher than can catch him; many have said this. AJ has shown he can't do that--can Hall?

I agree that the Sox probably think Haeger is below the other young pitchers, but I think that is a mistake. The beauty of having a knuckler like Haeger is that if he truly masters the art of the throwing it, he could be an inexpensive yet effective #5 starter for the next decade. And on those days when he just can't get it over the plate and/or gets hammered, you yank him and put in Floyd. Then Haeger's available the next day out of the pen.

For 2008, I would have Haeger as the #5, with Masset and Floyd in the pen. For 2009, trade Contreras, put Floyd in the rotation, and have Gio do an apprenticeship in the pen.