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gogosox16
12-14-2007, 06:19 PM
D-Backs trade 6 prospects for Dan Haren and also trade Jose Valeverde to Houston for Chris Burke and Chad Qualls


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071214&content_id=2326595&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

gogosox16
12-14-2007, 06:21 PM
In the trade for Dan Haren, the D-Backs include former Sox prospects Chris Carter and Aaron Cunningham

DSpivack
12-14-2007, 06:23 PM
Haren and Webb at the top...nice. DBacks trade a lot of prospects, but no real top ones, I don't think. Carlos Gonzalez probably the best there.

gogosox16
12-14-2007, 06:23 PM
D-Backs have really unloaded this offseason with their outfield prospects....Carlos Quentin, Carlos Gonzalez, and Aaron Cunningham

Hitmen77
12-14-2007, 06:29 PM
In the trade for Dan Haren, the D-Backs include former Sox prospects Chris Carter and Aaron Cunningham

Interesting. At first I misread your post and thought it said they traded former Sox prospect Chris Young.

Does this mean that Chris Carter will be playing for the Kane County Cougars (A's A-ball team) next year?

gogosox16
12-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Interesting. At first I misread your post and thought it said they traded former Sox prospect Chris Young.

Does this mean that Chris Carter will be playing for the Kane County Cougars (A's A-ball team) next year?
possibly, that would be nice to see if the Sox made a mistake trading him or if hes another prospect highly regarded that would eventually turn out into a bust...even though it's to early to tell in his young career.

salty99
12-14-2007, 06:37 PM
I would imagine Carter would be in High A or AA depending on his spring.

doublem23
12-14-2007, 06:41 PM
I would imagine Carter would be in High A or AA depending on his spring.

Not too mention what kind of "work-out" program the A's put him on.

http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2001/0702/photo/giambis_i.jpg
Worked for me!

soxinem1
12-14-2007, 06:41 PM
Dan Haren >>>>>> Livan Hernandez

Now that's what I call an upgrade.

But I don't know why OAK was so hard up to trade him? They unloaded Loaiza's salary at the end of the year, certainly they have the money to keep him.

Maybe Beane was scared they would cut his Christmas bonus!

doublem23
12-14-2007, 06:46 PM
Maybe Beane was scared they would cut his Christmas bonus!

:fobbgod:
We're building for 2009, until 2008, when we will focus our attention on either 2011 or 2012, unless in 2010 we deem it more finacially prudent to go for it all in 2014, but I think in 2013, we'll already have our eyes on 2015. Unless we start building for 2017 in 2014, which may or may not happen.

WhiteSox5187
12-14-2007, 06:46 PM
Pretty good trade for Arizona...

DickAllen72
12-14-2007, 06:59 PM
I'm just happy the Indians didn't wind up with Haren. Steve Stone said today the Tribe was going after him "with both guns blazing."

spawn
12-14-2007, 07:03 PM
I'm just happy the Indians didn't wind up with Haren. Steve Stone said today the Tribe was going after him "with both guns blazing."
Must've been loaded with blanks.

Tragg
12-14-2007, 07:47 PM
I think the Astros made a good trade. Maybe the closer's bogus, but I know the Astros didn't give up anything legit -Qualls and BUrke: a middle reliever and a utility infielder for a closer who led the league in saves.

SABRSox
12-14-2007, 08:06 PM
The A's aren't doing anything until they move to Fremont.

Mr. White Sox
12-14-2007, 08:58 PM
Good trade for both teams. I like Cunningham a bit more than most, and know absolutely nothing about Carter aside from his power potential. The A's certainly got a king's ransom for Haren as they set out to do, though, and the Diamondbacks know what they got in Haren. He could win a Cy Young in the NL if it wasn't for Arizona's park.

jabrch
12-14-2007, 09:05 PM
The A's certainly got a king's ransom for Haren as they set out to do,

I don't think so...There wasn't a TOP prospeect in that bunch, was there?

doctor30th
12-14-2007, 09:50 PM
I had remembered a rumor that the Diamond backs were interested in Konerko. I had also heard that the White Sox were interested in Chris Burke. Wonder if anything is in the works, especially since for some same reason the Sox released Gonzalez making room on the roster.

Things that make you go hmmm....

drewcifer
12-14-2007, 10:08 PM
I think the Astros made a good trade. Maybe the closer's bogus, but I know the Astros didn't give up anything legit -Qualls and BUrke: a middle reliever and a utility infielder for a closer who led the league in saves.

I was just writing something similar... beat me to the punch.

I did like Qualls, though.

Sockinchisox
12-14-2007, 10:12 PM
I don't think so...There wasn't a TOP prospeect in that bunch, was there?

Gonzalez has a chance to be a real star and Anderson has #2 starter upside.

EndemicSox
12-14-2007, 10:26 PM
Yeah, Gonzo is pretty much a sure thing(if there is such a thing in baseball)...I like Haren, and this is great news for Sox fans...

KRS1
12-14-2007, 10:38 PM
I had remembered a rumor that the Diamond backs were interested in Konerko. I had also heard that the White Sox were interested in Chris Burke. Wonder if anything is in the works, especially since for some same reason the Sox released Gonzalez making room on the roster.

Things that make you go hmmm....

Add to that that we also apparently attempted to exchange Sweeney for Qualls, and it gets a bit more interesting. However, I would never ever in a million years expect/accept those two to be the deciding factor in a PK trade, and really don't think this trade had anything to do with us other than our mutual interest in Chad and Chris. It seems like people here have really failed to see the value Paulie has to our team, not to mention he is signed for a now VERY reasonable 12MM a year.

doctor30th
12-14-2007, 11:01 PM
Add to that that we also apparently attempted to exchange Sweeney for Qualls, and it gets a bit more interesting. However, I would never ever in a million years expect/accept those two to be the deciding factor in a PK trade, and really don't think this trade had anything to do with us other than our mutual interest in Chad and Chris. It seems like people here have really failed to see the value Paulie has to our team, not to mention he is signed for a now VERY reasonable 12MM a year.

The fact that he's only owed 12 million makes him a very appealing. Might get more for him just because of that. The Diamondbacks are on his trade list I believe.

I love Konerko and would hate to see him leave, but there are a few things to consider:

1. You can get alot for him right now especially at what he's being paid.
2. He has shown some signs of decline the last 2 years.
3. If we could get some people with some speed back we could help unclog our basepaths.
4. If they don't do it before the season he will be 10-5 so he could void any trade.

As long as we get some quality back for him I would be ok with it.

drewcifer
12-14-2007, 11:08 PM
It seems like people here have really failed to see the value Paulie has to our team, not to mention he is signed for a now VERY reasonable 12MM a year.

That IS what we're talking about.

$12M they have to take on. A good deal.

Now give us some good things back.


What are you missing? We're not passing a bad contract here....

champagne030
12-14-2007, 11:27 PM
This is what we should have done with Garland instead of getting a 33 year-old in his walk year. We wouldn't have received as much since Haren is under control for a couple of more seasons, but the A's just put SIX prospects into their system in a season where they won't compete....We should be thinking along the same lines at this point.

KRS1
12-14-2007, 11:38 PM
That IS what we're talking about.

$12M they have to take on. A good deal.

Now give us some good things back.


What are you missing? We're not passing a bad contract here....

I really can't make any sense of this post in relation to what I said.

Let me break it down.

I said that I fail to see how Qualls and Burke put the Dbacks in better position to acquire PK, and followed that by talking about how valuable Paulie is to us especially at his 12mm a year deal.

I would wager to say we would have just rather taken Valverde than any combination of the three guys AZ just picked up, and that is why I really don't get people bringing up our name in relation to this trade other than some mutual interest in a couple players.

I wasn't talking about how PK shouldn't be traded, or that he is untouchable. All I said was how I really don't see how people like Chad and Chris make the Dbacks a more appealing trade partner.

BTW, who is the "we're" that you speak of? I saw Paulie a total of one time before my post doing nothing further than a bit of speculating and somehow finding a correlation between PK and Burke. That "we're" seems to be a whopping one, and he was only doing a bit of speculating over a scenario and nothing further in his post.

KRS1
12-14-2007, 11:42 PM
This is what we should have done with Garland instead of getting a 33 year-old in his walk year. We wouldn't have received as much since Haren is under control for a couple of more seasons, but the A's just put SIX prospects into their system in a season where they won't compete....We should be thinking along the same lines at this point.

A month ago I was a little "iffy" feeling about it, leaning slightly toward the Orlando trade being the right move for us to contend now. However, seeing where we are now, I completely agree with what you said.

chisoxfanatic
12-15-2007, 01:06 AM
I'm just happy the Indians didn't wind up with Haren. Steve Stone said today the Tribe was going after him "with both guns blazing."
I heard that too and am glad as well. I just couldn't imagine that rotation with another arm. May the Tribe and Tigers not do anything more this offseason so that the Palehose can pull a little closer.

soxfanreggie
12-15-2007, 01:21 AM
Good pick-up for the D'Backs. I wonder if the A's will get much out of the trade on the ML level.

BadBobbyJenks
12-15-2007, 05:01 AM
Dan Haren >>>>>> Livan Hernandez

Now that's what I call an upgrade.

But I don't know why OAK was so hard up to trade him? They unloaded Loaiza's salary at the end of the year, certainly they have the money to keep him.

Maybe Beane was scared they would cut his Christmas bonus!

I think its more because of the lack of young talent that is in the A's farm system right now. They are reloading and waiting for Fremont.

SBSoxFan
12-15-2007, 07:08 AM
The fact that he's only owed 12 million makes him a very appealing. Might get more for him just because of that. The Diamondbacks are on his trade list I believe.

I love Konerko and would hate to see him leave, but there are a few things to consider:

1. You can get alot for him right now especially at what he's being paid.
2. He has shown some signs of decline the last 2 years.
3. If we could get some people with some speed back we could help unclog our basepaths.
4. If they don't do it before the season he will be 10-5 so he could void any trade.

As long as we get some quality back for him I would be ok with it.

:o: When? Although he struggled last year, his OPS+ was still 116. Prior to that? 127, 136, and 134 in 2004, 2005, and 2006, respectively. In addition, his range factor has been constantly much higher than the league average.

SBSoxFan
12-15-2007, 07:11 AM
A month ago I was a little "iffy" feeling about it, leaning slightly toward the Orlando trade being the right move for us to contend now. However, seeing where we are now, I completely agree with what you said.

Is that in relation to the Sox missing out on other targets? If so, that's hindsight. The Garland/Cabrera deal went down before things played out with Hunter and the other Cabrera, right?

Who knows, hopefully they'll be able to extend Cabrera for 3 or 4 years. By then, the kid they recently signed will be ready to take over, and they won't have to worry about SS for the next 15 years.

Tragg
12-15-2007, 10:23 AM
I had remembered a rumor that the Diamond backs were interested in Konerko. I had also heard that the White Sox were interested in Chris Burke. Wonder if anything is in the works, especially since for some same reason the Sox released Gonzalez making room on the roster.

Things that make you go hmmm....
It's bad enough that Williams wants to use another one of our best outfield prospects for yet another middle reliever. (how did MacDougal, Sisco, Riske and Aardsma work out for you, Kenny?). But him plus an Ozzie-style bad OBP middle infielder for Paul Konerko? Maybe you're right - Ozzie was wheeling Bukvich and Meyers out there last year, instead of pitching the young guys; giving Erstad at bats in September in premium lineup positions was much more important to Ozzie than developing young hitters. But gracious, it needs to end.
Trade Konerko for high-ceiling young players. And give Richar a chance.
BTW, the Astros always seem to have a good setup man. And there's a reason - they use their young pitchers in the pen. They know how and are willing to actually develop players.

Jjav829
12-15-2007, 12:01 PM
Good trade for the D'backs. Webb, Haren, Owings, Davis and whatever they can get from the Big Unit - that's a good rotation. And they didn't have to trade any of the young talent on their 25-man roster.

Jjav829
12-15-2007, 12:05 PM
D-Backs have really unloaded this offseason with their outfield prospects....Carlos Quentin, Carlos Gonzalez, and Aaron Cunningham

They can afford to unload those guys with Chris Young and Justin Upton, plus the re-signed Eric Byrnes, in place.

palehozenychicty
12-17-2007, 10:24 AM
:fobbgod:
We're building for 2009, until 2008, when we will focus our attention on either 2011 or 2012, unless in 2010 we deem it more finacially prudent to go for it all in 2014, but I think in 2013, we'll already have our eyes on 2015. Unless we start building for 2017 in 2014, which may or may not happen.


Seriously. The A's and Twins don't care about winning. They just want to be minor players in the game.

EndemicSox
12-17-2007, 11:52 AM
Good trade for the D'backs. Webb, Haren, Owings, Davis and whatever they can get from the Big Unit - that's a good rotation. And they didn't have to trade any of the young talent on their 25-man roster.

Hopefully Vegas sleeps on this team in the futures market. I think they take the NL going away next season...

Nellie_Fox
12-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Seriously. The A's and Twins don't care about winning. They just want to be minor players in the game.If you lived in Minnesota you wouldn't say that. Oh, Pohlad isn't going to open up the coffers, but the organization cares a great deal. Their attendance is very highly tied to performance. This is a Vikings area, first and foremost.

SoxSpeed22
12-17-2007, 02:09 PM
This is an all-in trade for Arizona, but this also makes them the favorites in the NL. This gives them the best rotation and even though they lost their prospects, they still have plenty of young talent.

jabrch
12-17-2007, 02:48 PM
3. If we could get some people with some speed back we could help unclog our basepaths.

This has quickly become one of the most annoying phrases in baseball.

You unclog the bases by getting hits - running just clogs the base ahead of you, since you aren't stealing home much.

Daver
12-17-2007, 02:56 PM
This has quickly become one of the most annoying phrases in baseball.

You unclog the bases by getting hits - running just clogs the base ahead of you, since you aren't stealing home much.

So having the speed to advance from first to third on a single is a bad thing?

jabrch
12-17-2007, 03:00 PM
So having the speed to advance from first to third on a single is a bad thing?

Please show me where I said that...

FedEx227
12-17-2007, 03:36 PM
Please show me where I said that...

That's why people refer to clogging basepaths. At least that's how I've always done it. Clogging basepaths to me has always meant your team is very station-to-station.

Konerko gets on first, Dye gets a single, Konerko on second, Dye on first. Stuff like that. Now you have guys on first and second, when likely with a faster player you could have First and Third which is a much better scoring opportunity.

palehozenychicty
12-17-2007, 05:12 PM
If you lived in Minnesota you wouldn't say that. Oh, Pohlad isn't going to open up the coffers, but the organization cares a great deal. Their attendance is very highly tied to performance. This is a Vikings area, first and foremost.

I should have been clearer, but what I meant by the statement, that Pohlad is too cheap to field a serious contender. Their management has definitely done all they could over the years, as the division titles justify this fact. Pohlad, however, doesn't help matters much.

Daver
12-17-2007, 05:15 PM
I should have been clearer, but what I meant by the statement, that Pohlad is too cheap to field a serious contender. Their management has definitely done all they could over the years, as the division titles justify this fact. Pohlad, however, doesn't help matters much.

Not all of it is Pohlad, Terry Ryan has refused to trade young talent at the deadline to strengthen his team with veterans, even though he had the resources to do so.

FarWestChicago
12-17-2007, 10:08 PM
That's why people refer to clogging basepaths. At least that's how I've always done it. Clogging basepaths to me has always meant your team is very station-to-station.

Konerko gets on first, Dye gets a single, Konerko on second, Dye on first. Stuff like that. Now you have guys on first and second, when likely with a faster player you could have First and Third which is a much better scoring opportunity.Let's be realistic. There is a difference between clogging the basepaths and Konerko being on base. The latter is called plate tectonics. :D:

psyclonis
12-17-2007, 10:18 PM
Will adding Konerko make the Dbacks the best team in the NL (even the AL)? A future trade looks likely :whiner:

Nellie_Fox
12-18-2007, 12:51 AM
Let's be realistic. There is a difference between clogging the basepaths and Konerko being on base. The latter is called plate tectonics. :D:If you just wait long enough, second base will move over to third base and he can just step over.

FedEx227
12-18-2007, 12:56 AM
If you just wait long enough, second base will move over to third base and he can just step over.

Or it'll be like Hawaii and there'll be a base between 2nd and 3rd.

FarWestChicago
12-18-2007, 07:02 PM
If you just wait long enough, second base will move over to third base and he can just step over.

Or it'll be like Hawaii and there'll be a base between 2nd and 3rd.Excellent! :thumbsup:

Save McCuddy's
12-18-2007, 08:31 PM
They can afford to unload those guys with Chris Young and Justin Upton, plus the re-signed Eric Byrnes, in place.

Precisely. This is a beautiful deal by the DBacks. Haren's peripheral numbers in the AL compute out to Cy Young award dominance in the NL. That is a piece that will make a competitive and defensively sound team very tough. The beauty is that they gave value without hurting themselves.. Carlos Gonzalez should make major impact at the next level -- not unlike the splash that Chis Young has made. The DBack's won't miss him though, because there's nowhere for him to play. athey are covered in the OF. Unlike when we acquired vazquez from them for Young. This is a good deal on the surface as we got an effective Major League 1 or 2 starter and gave up a prospect with stud potential. The problem was that we were incredibly shallow in the outfield and dealt blows to our bull pen depth by trading El Duque and Vizcaino in that deal.

jabrch
12-18-2007, 08:55 PM
Haren's peripheral numbers in the AL compute out to Cy Young award dominance in the NL.


Q: How do pitchers leaving Oakland tend to do?

A: Not too well....

Don't bet on any improvement just because Haren is going to the NL. Oakland is a VERY strong pitchers park. The only parks more pitcher friendly are PetCo and The Ted. Chase is one of the top 10 most hitter friendly parks. I predict that despite the league change, Haren does not improve at over his career averages.

For this, Arizona gave up 5 of their top 10 prospects, including their #1 prospect, #3 and 7, 8 and 10. Haren will only cost about 6mm a year for three years - and is locked down, so it was a good move for the Dbacks. But they paid a hefty price for him.

Save McCuddy's
12-26-2007, 06:18 PM
A dozen Churros that his whip and ERA are better than his career totals to date and that he has a career best strike out total. This churro offer is of course barring injury.

Jjav829
12-27-2007, 12:27 PM
Q: How do pitchers leaving Oakland tend to do?

A: Not too well....

Don't bet on any improvement just because Haren is going to the NL. Oakland is a VERY strong pitchers park. The only parks more pitcher friendly are PetCo and The Ted. Chase is one of the top 10 most hitter friendly parks. I predict that despite the league change, Haren does not improve at over his career averages.

He doesn't need to improve. 15-9, 3.07 ERA. That's pretty damn good already. If the move to the NL just helps him stay around those numbers, Arizona will be more than satisfied.

For this, Arizona gave up 5 of their top 10 prospects, including their #1 prospect, #3 and 7, 8 and 10. Haren will only cost about 6mm a year for three years - and is locked down, so it was a good move for the Dbacks. But they paid a hefty price for him.Yes, but the thing is, they can afford it. This isn't a team like the Sox that has very few young players with high ceilings. The D'backs everyday position players' ages next year will be: C - 24/27, 1B - 25, 2B - 30, 3B - 24/27 SS - 25, LF - 32 , CF - 24, RF - 20. Plus, their pitching staff only figures to have two guys on the wrong side of 30; Randy Johnson at 44 and Doug Davis at 32.

jabrch
12-27-2007, 04:11 PM
He doesn't need to improve. 15-9, 3.07 ERA. That's pretty damn good already. If the move to the NL just helps him stay around those numbers, Arizona will be more than satisfied.

No doubt - I don't see him maintaining his career averages when leaving that park, much less maintaining his career year.

Yes, but the thing is, they can afforod it.

No doubt. I said it was a good deal for them...just that they paid a very high price.

Save McCuddy's
12-31-2007, 12:11 PM
Jabrch --

He only made half of his starts at Oakland. You should temper that park factor as it won't compare to the advantage of facing Tim Lincecum and Derek Lowe in the Batter's box instead of the likes of Sosa, Thome and Thomas.

Haren's 17 road starts in 2007:

107.2 IP 3.34 ERA 7 Wins 5 Losses 95 k's 23 bb's.

In 17 Home starts:

115 IP 2.82 ERA 8 Wins 4 Losses 97 k's and 32 bb's.

Put your churros up. I stand by my wager that he sets career highs in k's and beats his career averages in WHIP and ERA.