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View Full Version : Fix the SOX this year plan


Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 10:42 AM
An option I like is a trade for Jaun Pierre (BA=.293 and 64 stolen bases last year). The Dodgers want to get rid of his salary (Approx. $9mm for the next two years.) because they have 3 SOLID OF's. It wouldn't take much to get him.

I wouldn't mind seeing Coco Crisp in addition to the Pierre move or as a back up if Pierre wasn't feasible.

MUST also get another starter or 2. One year deals and get lucky with one like we did with Loaiza. There is a Long List guys like: Colon, Benson, Silva, Lieber, Prior??.

Same for the pen: 1 year deals with two more guys: Wickman, Foulke, Dotel, Julio,
Still have Crede to dangle. What are your thoughts please?

chisoxmike
12-14-2007, 10:45 AM
:rolling:

Fourth time the charm?

CHIsoxNation
12-14-2007, 10:47 AM
Are you kidding? :rolleyes:

spiffie
12-14-2007, 10:48 AM
An option I like is a trade for Jaun Pierre (BA=.293 and 64 stolen bases last year). The Dodgers want to get rid of his salary (Approx. $9mm for the next two years.) because they have 3 SOLID OF's. It wouldn't take much to get him.

I wouldn't mind seeing Coco Crisp in addition to the Pierre move or as a back up if Pierre wasn't feasible.

MUST also get another starter or 2. One year deals and get lucky with one like we did with Loaiza. There is a Long List guys like: Colon, Benson, Silva, Lieber, Prior??.

Same for the pen: 1 year deals with two more guys: Wickman, Foulke, Dotel, Julio,
Still have Crede to dangle. What are your thoughts please?

I would rather they start Owens in CF and use the other 8.5 million dollars to hire butter sculpters to create a team portrait of the 2005 world champions. Any remaining money can be used to fill one of those boxes where someone stands inside and tries to catch the money as it's blown around. They can select one lucky fan every game to stand in the money box.

itsnotrequired
12-14-2007, 10:49 AM
Is Hunter still available?

Rocky Soprano
12-14-2007, 10:49 AM
Do you not know how to read?

Rocky Soprano
12-14-2007, 10:50 AM
Is Hunter still available?

No, but I hear Miguel Cabrera is on the trade block!
Get it done KW! :bandance:

If not there is always Rowand! :bandance:

itsnotrequired
12-14-2007, 10:51 AM
No, but I hear Miguel Cabrera is on the trade block!
Get it done KW! :bandance:

If not there is always Rowand! :bandance:

We should trade for Pierre.

spiffie
12-14-2007, 10:53 AM
We should trade for Pierre.
I say we trade for the Alomar brothers and let them alternate out there.

kraut83
12-14-2007, 10:56 AM
What are the chances KW would be interested in Willie Mays???

Could a package of Floyd, Uribe, and Anderson get it done???

itsnotrequired
12-14-2007, 10:56 AM
I say we trade for the Alomar brothers and let them alternate out there.

Pierre!!! The Plan!!!

SoxyStu
12-14-2007, 10:58 AM
An option I like is a trade for Jaun Pierre (BA=.293 and 64 stolen bases last year). The Dodgers want to get rid of his salary (Approx. $9mm for the next two years.) because they have 3 SOLID OF's. It wouldn't take much to get him.

I wouldn't mind seeing Coco Crisp in addition to the Pierre move or as a back up if Pierre wasn't feasible.

MUST also get another starter or 2. One year deals and get lucky with one like we did with Loaiza. There is a Long List guys like: Colon, Benson, Silva, Lieber, Prior??.

Same for the pen: 1 year deals with two more guys: Wickman, Foulke, Dotel, Julio,
Still have Crede to dangle. What are your thoughts please?


jUAn :D

And, I think it would probably take a pitcher. I prefer to not subtract pitching without the addition of pitching. Keep Count.

jabrch
12-14-2007, 11:07 AM
I would rather they start Owens in CF and use the other 8.5 million dollars to hire butter sculpters to create a team portrait of the 2005 world champions.

The problem is that the Angels already singed the butter sculpters to a 5 year deal for 11mm per...

jabrch
12-14-2007, 11:09 AM
I'd be fine with Pierre if we weren't giving up much and paying all of his salary...I'd be fine with Owens or BA.

I want nothing to do with Cameron, Crisp or any of the other overpriced FA/Trade targets.

Rocky Soprano
12-14-2007, 11:16 AM
We should trade for Pierre.

My brother just ran into KW at the airport and he heard KW say Pierre for Podsednik, Cintron, Mackowiak!

Its going to happen!

Chicken Dinner
12-14-2007, 11:17 AM
I wanted to pick "other" but it's not a choice.

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 11:21 AM
Could not fit other, who is the other?

doublem23
12-14-2007, 11:27 AM
Ridiculous

Bucky F. Dent
12-14-2007, 11:28 AM
Could not fit other, who is the other?


Chet Lemon.

spiffie
12-14-2007, 11:30 AM
I'd be fine with Pierre if we weren't giving up much and paying all of his salary...I'd be fine with Owens or BA.

I want nothing to do with Cameron, Crisp or any of the other overpriced FA/Trade targets.
****ing Angels with their overpaying for everything!

WizardsofOzzie
12-14-2007, 11:32 AM
I say we pull One Dog out of hiding

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9765/91lancejohnson76lz0hb7.jpg

102605
12-14-2007, 11:33 AM
I would vote for Owens but you put stinking Anderson next to his name.

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 11:34 AM
Why is everyone down on either one or both of these guys? I still think speed kills and both would be a great fit in our batting order. Coco=CF and Juan=LF?

Pierre
I know bad arm; but fast, leads off, solid avg, under contract for 2 years at $9mm. Is overpaid but its not huge money for a lot of years. Put him in left if you hate him in CF

Coco
Fast, solid D, young, can lead off, and I think he can hit. I don't think his salary is bad, and he is under contract for 2 years

What am I missing?

spiffie
12-14-2007, 11:42 AM
Why is everyone down on either one or both of these guys? I still think speed kills and both would be a great fit in our batting order. Coco=CF and Juan=LF?

Pierre
I know bad arm; but fast, leads off, solid avg, under contract for 2 years at $9mm. Is overpaid but its not huge money for a lot of years. Put him in left if you hate him in CF

Coco
Fast, solid D, young, can lead off, and I think he can hit. I don't think his salary is bad, and he is under contract for 2 years

What am I missing?
Juan Pierre is earning 8 million in 2008, 10 million in 2009 and 2010, and 8.5 million in 2011. And he's getting paid all that to put up the same freaking OBP that Jerry Owens will put up for $400,000. No thank you. Same deal with Coco Crisp. Also his deal is only an option for 2009, an option that costs 8 million to exercise for a mediocre CF.

WizardsofOzzie
12-14-2007, 11:44 AM
Why is everyone down on either one or both of these guys? I still think speed kills and both would be a great fit in our batting order. Coco=CF and Juan=LF?

Pierre
I know bad arm; but fast, leads off, solid avg, under contract for 2 years at $9mm. Is overpaid but its not huge money for a lot of years. Put him in left if you hate him in CF

Coco
Fast, solid D, young, can lead off, and I think he can hit. I don't think his salary is bad, and he is under contract for 2 years

What am I missing?

Crisp: OBP .330, 124th out of 162 eligible players
Pierre: OBP .331, 122nd out of 162 eligible players

You don't get on base, you're not going to be a solution in our leadoff spot

voodoochile
12-14-2007, 11:46 AM
Juan Pierre is earning 8 million in 2008, 10 million in 2009 and 2010, and 8.5 million in 2011. And he's getting paid all that to put up the same freaking OBP that Jerry Owens will put up for $400,000. No thank you. Same deal with Coco Crisp. Also his deal is only an option for 2009, an option that costs 8 million to exercise for a mediocre CF.

Actually, I think Crisp has 2 guaranteed years (10.5M for the two years) coming and the option year is 2010. There is a $.5M buyout if the option isn't enacted.

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 11:49 AM
Jerry Owens will not bat .300 and wont steal 60 bases - What options do you like? Give up on this year and total rebuild?

spiffie
12-14-2007, 11:49 AM
Actually, I think Crisp has 2 guaranteed years (10.5M for the two years) coming and the option year is 2010. There is a $.5M buyout if the option isn't enacted.
You're right. He's getting 4.75M in 2008 and 5.75M in 2009. Then in 2010 it is the 8M club option with 0.5M buyout.

Either way he's still not worth it.

spiffie
12-14-2007, 11:51 AM
Jerry Owens will not bat .300 and wont steal 60 bases - What options do you like? Give up on this year and total rebuild?
Yay, Juan Pierre will bat 290ish. He'll still be on base the same amount of times as Jerry Owens, and over a full season they'll probably steal the same amount of bases. Over 162 games last year Owens projected out to 55 SB's, and Pierre stole 62 in 162 games. If Pierre had some power it might be different, but almost all the time they're both starting from first base whether they walk or slap hit their way on.

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 11:54 AM
Why not take a chance with coco its chump change

I still like Pierre's avg and stolen bases. Cant he bunt and get on base more

voodoochile
12-14-2007, 11:55 AM
You're right. He's getting 4.75M in 2008 and 5.75M in 2009. Then in 2010 it is the 8M club option with 0.5M buyout.

Either way he's still not worth it.

Yes and no. He wouldn't be a horrible pickup if he didn't cost anything but middling prospects. It would give the Sox one veteran backup to the Owens/Quentin dynamic duo that is expected to start next season. His salary isn't enough to break the bank and expires in 2 years. If nothing else, he would be a pinch hitter/pinch runner/4th OF.

If the Sox are serious about still trying to compete this year, picking up Crisp wouldn't be the worst thing they could do.

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 11:58 AM
Yay, Juan Pierre will bat 290ish. He'll still be on base the same amount of times as Jerry Owens, and over a full season they'll probably steal the same amount of bases. Over 162 games last year Owens projected out to 55 SB's, and Pierre stole 62 in 162 games. If Pierre had some power it might be different, but almost all the time they're both starting from first base whether they walk or slap hit their way on.



Looks like you might be right with your Owens v Pierre logic. Especially if the stolen bases will be around 55, besides looks like thats the way Kenny is going! I just hope Ownes can get his avg up! I still say take a shot at Coco for LF? And we must take a shot at a vet starter or two and hope we get luck - THANKS!

WizardsofOzzie
12-14-2007, 12:00 PM
Jerry Owens will not bat .300 and wont steal 60 bases - What options do you like? Give up on this year and total rebuild?

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1149/977299756b24129899omp5.gif

Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_base_percentage) and call me in the morning

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 12:04 PM
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1149/977299756b24129899omp5.gif

Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_base_percentage) and call me in the morning

OBP- Thats a good one, and I got your point. But what is your day dream fix? Ted Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams) - LOL

nevr say dye sox
12-14-2007, 12:07 PM
Bring back the dinosaur. I want Carl Everett!

WizardsofOzzie
12-14-2007, 12:13 PM
OBP- Thats a good one, and I got your point. But what is your day dream fix? Ted Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams) - LOL

No, my point is why should we pickup one of 2 guys making over 8 million this year when we have a cheap option who can get on base at the same clip? Owens had an OBP of .324 which is only 7 points lower than Pierre and 6 points lower than Crisp. Owens is young and has shown he can steal plenty of bases if that's your biggest concern. Also keep in mind Pierre will be coming over from AAAA which could put a damper on his Avg and OBP

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 12:23 PM
No, my point is why should we pickup one of 2 guys making over 8 million this year when we have a cheap option who can get on base at the same clip? Owens had an OBP of .324 which is only 7 points lower than Pierre and 6 points lower than Crisp. Owens is young and has shown he can steal plenty of bases if that's your biggest concern. Also keep in mind Pierre will be coming over from AAAA which could put a damper on his Avg and OBP


Got your point on Owens v. Pierre - but you admit his OBP is lower; at least with Pierre you have a BA and maybe some timely hits! But ok I will give you Ownes in CF. Now what about LF? What you think?

My main concern is pitching! I think we can make 1 or 2 one year deals to a a guy like Colon and push the young arms a little, maybe we get lucky? Do the same with the pen. 1 or 2 one year deals and get lucky?

I want to have a decent year and at least be optimistic, right now its hard and that's why I am trying to think of any realistic moves? Kenny will try and do something, RIGHT!!!???!!!

MCHSoxFan
12-14-2007, 12:27 PM
Also keep in mind Pierre will be coming over from AAAA which could put a damper on his Avg and OBP

GREAT POINT!!! AAAA:D:

itsnotrequired
12-14-2007, 01:00 PM
why is everything in italics?

Daver
12-14-2007, 01:07 PM
why is everything in italics?


Why do you have to question everything?

Big Hurt #35=HOF
12-14-2007, 01:08 PM
I still like Pierre in CF and Owens or Crisp in LF, What about pitching?

Would Prior be worth a chance? What about any other FA pitchers to take a chance on? I am worried about our current projected rotation. Can anybody make me feel better today with ANY realistic moves?

There are a lot of Jerry Owens lovers out there, and fine I like him and can get a little excited, but like I said what about LF, and pitching?

itsnotrequired
12-14-2007, 01:18 PM
Why do you have to question everything?

IT IS MY NATURE

voodoochile
12-14-2007, 01:20 PM
I still like Pierre in CF and Owens or Crisp in LF, What about pitching?

Would Prior be worth a chance? What about any other FA pitchers to take a chance on? I am worried about our current projected rotation. Can anybody make me feel better today with ANY realistic moves?

There are a lot of Jerry Owens lovers out there, and fine I like him and can get a little excited, but like I said what about LF, and pitching?

There aren't any guaranteed quick fixes available to the Sox. For them to substantially improve they are going to have to make trades at this stage of the game and that's going to have to wait until Crede is signed and proves he is healthy enough to contribute at which point either he or Fields is dispensable (probably Crede because of the contract situation and Fields being Sox property for the next 4-5 years).

Other than that, though the Sox are looking at retreads and minor acquisitions. I expect to see some of that, but don't know if it will be enough to take them over the top in an incredibly loaded AL.

spiffie
12-14-2007, 01:24 PM
Yes and no. He wouldn't be a horrible pickup if he didn't cost anything but middling prospects. It would give the Sox one veteran backup to the Owens/Quentin dynamic duo that is expected to start next season. His salary isn't enough to break the bank and expires in 2 years. If nothing else, he would be a pinch hitter/pinch runner/4th OF.

If the Sox are serious about still trying to compete this year, picking up Crisp wouldn't be the worst thing they could do.
I guess I just don't see the point. Sure, Crisp might give you slightly better production. If the Sox were right there on the precipice of contention I'd say it might be worth it. But this team isn't looking like a contender whether you plug Owens, Anderson, Crisp, or Pierre in there, so I say let it ride with Owens, if he totally blows let Anderson take one more shot at proving his worth.

It wouldn't be a terrible move to get Crisp, but I feel like we can get nearly the same or possibly better production from our homegrown players without giving up anyone or spending more than league minimum.

spiffie
12-14-2007, 01:26 PM
Why do you have to question everything?
Why is everything in bold and italics?

Hitmen77
12-14-2007, 01:31 PM
Yay, Juan Pierre will bat 290ish. He'll still be on base the same amount of times as Jerry Owens, and over a full season they'll probably steal the same amount of bases. Over 162 games last year Owens projected out to 55 SB's, and Pierre stole 62 in 162 games. If Pierre had some power it might be different, but almost all the time they're both starting from first base whether they walk or slap hit their way on.

...and both Owens and Pierre will be terrible in CF. I don't think either are good solutions.

Why not take a chance with coco its chump change

I still like Pierre's avg and stolen bases. Cant he bunt and get on base more



I very much doubt Boston is going to give Coco Crisp to us for "chump change".

spiffie
12-14-2007, 01:47 PM
...and both Owens and Pierre will be terrible in CF. I don't think either are good solutions.




I very much doubt Boston is going to give Coco Crisp to us for "chump change".
There are no good solutions available at this point. The only good solution would be Brian Anderson suddenly doing a monster 180 and becoming a solid player, then we would get a nice mix of plate and glove production. But as long as Anderson is still an immature child who can't hit 220 for all the Vodka in Russia, Owens is a poor fielding slap hitter, Crisp is a somewhat expensive slap hitter who will cost a good haul of prospects, and Pierre is a very expensive slap hitter who will also cost prospects, there's not a whole lot to choose from.

salty99
12-14-2007, 01:54 PM
Bring Singleton down from the booth. Either that or resign Mackowiak, Erstand, and Pods. Then we can have a Mack/Grindy/Quentin/Pods/Owens/Anderson 6 man platoon in center and left.


GET IT DONE KENNY!

Can Uribe play center?

SBSoxFan
12-14-2007, 02:03 PM
Bring back the dinosaur. I want Carl Everett!

Roids killed the dinosaurs. That's why there's nothing in the bible about dinosuars --- God was trying to cover up the fact that they were juicing.

WizardsofOzzie
12-14-2007, 02:29 PM
I guess I just don't see the point. Sure, Crisp might give you slightly better production. If the Sox were right there on the precipice of contention I'd say it might be worth it. But this team isn't looking like a contender whether you plug Owens, Anderson, Crisp, or Pierre in there, so I say let it ride with Owens, if he totally blows let Anderson take one more shot at proving his worth.

It wouldn't be a terrible move to get Crisp, but I feel like we can get nearly the same or possibly better production from our homegrown players without giving up anyone or spending more than league minimum.

Looks like you and I are on the same page