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View Full Version : Let's Get Real, About CF


AzureJazzMan
12-13-2007, 12:43 PM
Alright gang, now that most of the “quality” Free Agent CF players have been removed from the game (Mike Cameron doesn’t count) it is time to talk trade (novel concept, I know). When I say trade, I mean realistic trade potential.

We already know that Coco Crisp = Owens (albeit a more expensive one)

But, one name that has not come up until now, is all thanks to our boy Aaron Rowand. With him signing with the Giants, it opens the door to Rajai Davis (http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=sf&playerID=434658). Davis is fairly young (27), exciting, fast, and cheap.


(In 190 AB with the Giants)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
21 28 22 .361 .374 .279

“As a reigning Gold Glove winner, Rowand will strengthen the outfield, thus underscoring the Giants' renewed emphasis on pitching and defense. Dave Roberts will move to left field and Winn will play right, although Bochy emphasized that youngsters Rajai Davis, Fred Lewis and Nate Schierholtz will provide competition.

The Giants aren't content with their roster, however. Sabean said that he's seeking help in the bullpen and at the infield corners, particularly at third base. To fill that spot, he'll continue to negotiate with free agent Pedro Feliz, whose demand for a three-year contract has left the Giants cold.”

And

“While manager Bruce Bochy had said Rajai Davis would get a chance to earn the center-field job in spring training, Rowand was brought in to provide a consistent, hard-nosed presence at that position.
That means Dave Roberts likely will shift from center to left, replacing departed home run king Barry Bonds. Randy Winn will stay in right while Davis and some of the other young outfielders share time in a reserve role. That is, if the Giants don't try to deal them -- something Sabean said is a possibility.”


Well, we just so happen to have a 3rd baseman that fits that description, named Joe Crede. Seems it would be a slam dunk to me. We could conceivably get another AA prospect or 2 (like Joe Bowker (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=John%20Bowker&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=435624), or Eugenio Velez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eugenio%20Velez&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=464299)) in addition to Davis, which would hopefully help add a little beef to our minor league system.
The other possibilities (and popular ones at that) reside over in “Dusty Baker Land”, aka the Reds. There are 3 prime choices who roamed CF last year. All three are fairly young, fast (except Hamilton, who has decent speed), versatile, exciting, and cheap. They are…

Norris Hopper (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=cin&playerID=440361) (307 AB)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
20 33 14 .371 .388 .329

Ryan Freel (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150472) (277 AB)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
18 47 15 .308 .347 .245

Josh Hamilton (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=285078) (298 AB)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
33 65 3 .368 .554 .292

What does Dusty love to burn through, more than anything…? What don’t the reds really have? You guessed it pitching…Which is one area that we have a good amount of prospects in. I would think that any three of MacDougal, Masset, Egbert, Aardsma (who Dusty knew from before) would net us one of those 3 CF mentioned above.

Again, I am trying to be realistic with what we can do, and fill our hole in CF.

RowanDye
12-13-2007, 12:56 PM
I don't think all four of the "prospects" you mentioned would get us Hamilton.

I'd love to pry Hopper away from them though.

As for Rajai Davis, I think we would have to give them Crede AND one of the 4 prospects you mentioned. I love Crede, but unfortunately he just isn't worth much more than a low-level prospect right now.

Chicken Dinner
12-13-2007, 12:57 PM
KW looking for a center fielder reminds me of Geraldo Rivera looking for Al Capone's vault.

JorgeFabregas
12-13-2007, 01:34 PM
Alright gang, now that most of the “quality” Free Agent CF players have been removed from the game (Mike Cameron doesn’t count) it is time to talk trade (novel concept, I know). When I say trade, I mean realistic trade potential.

We already know that Coco Crisp = Owens (albeit a more expensive one)

But, one name that has not come up until now, is all thanks to our boy Aaron Rowand. With him signing with the Giants, it opens the door to Rajai Davis (http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=sf&playerID=434658). Davis is fairly young (27), exciting, fast, and cheap.


(In 190 AB with the Giants)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
21 28 22 .361 .374 .279

“As a reigning Gold Glove winner, Rowand will strengthen the outfield, thus underscoring the Giants' renewed emphasis on pitching and defense. Dave Roberts will move to left field and Winn will play right, although Bochy emphasized that youngsters Rajai Davis, Fred Lewis and Nate Schierholtz will provide competition.

The Giants aren't content with their roster, however. Sabean said that he's seeking help in the bullpen and at the infield corners, particularly at third base. To fill that spot, he'll continue to negotiate with free agent Pedro Feliz, whose demand for a three-year contract has left the Giants cold.”

And

“While manager Bruce Bochy had said Rajai Davis would get a chance to earn the center-field job in spring training, Rowand was brought in to provide a consistent, hard-nosed presence at that position.
That means Dave Roberts likely will shift from center to left, replacing departed home run king Barry Bonds. Randy Winn will stay in right while Davis and some of the other young outfielders share time in a reserve role. That is, if the Giants don't try to deal them -- something Sabean said is a possibility.”


Well, we just so happen to have a 3rd baseman that fits that description, named Joe Crede. Seems it would be a slam dunk to me. We could conceivably get another AA prospect or 2 (like Joe Bowker (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=John%20Bowker&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=435624), or Eugenio Velez (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eugenio%20Velez&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=464299)) in addition to Davis, which would hopefully help add a little beef to our minor league system.
The other possibilities (and popular ones at that) reside over in “Dusty Baker Land”, aka the Reds. There are 3 prime choices who roamed CF last year. All three are fairly young, fast (except Hamilton, who has decent speed), versatile, exciting, and cheap. They are…

Norris Hopper (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=cin&playerID=440361) (307 AB)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
20 33 14 .371 .388 .329

Ryan Freel (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150472) (277 AB)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
18 47 15 .308 .347 .245

Josh Hamilton (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=285078) (298 AB)
BB SO SB OBP SLG AVG
33 65 3 .368 .554 .292

What does Dusty love to burn through, more than anything…? What don’t the reds really have? You guessed it pitching…Which is one area that we have a good amount of prospects in. I would think that any three of MacDougal, Masset, Egbert, Aardsma (who Dusty knew from before) would net us one of those 3 CF mentioned above.

Again, I am trying to be realistic with what we can do, and fill our hole in CF.
Not sure why you dismiss Coco Crisp. Not that he's great, but his career OPS+ of 94 blows away Jerry Owens' 67 and is better than Davi's 87 or whatever. Basically, Crisp is a slightly below-average hitter and Jerry Owens is WAY below average. He's also a better fielder.

balke
12-13-2007, 01:40 PM
Not sure why you dismiss Coco Crisp. Not that he's great, but his career OPS+ of 94 blows away Jerry Owens' 67 and is better than Davi's 87 or whatever. Basically, Crisp is a slightly below-average hitter and Jerry Owens is WAY below average. He's also a better fielder.

Coco Crisp is horrible. His OPS may be higher than Owens... but let's get real. He gets injured every other season and can be penciled in for 12 HR's.... big deal. Owens won't cost a player to get, and has more SB's.

kjhanson
12-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Coco Crisp is horrible. His OPS may be higher than Owens... but let's get real. He gets injured every other season and can be penciled in for 12 HR's.... big deal. Owens won't cost a player to get, and has more SB's.

Let's not forget that Crisp costs 10x's what J.O. costs, and their OBPs are nearly identical. Save the $3.5mm, and spend it on a reliever. CF didn't cost us 10 games in the first half of the season, it was the bullpen, or lack thereof.

russ99
12-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Coco Crisp is horrible. His OPS may be higher than Owens... but let's get real. He gets injured every other season and can be penciled in for 12 HR's.... big deal. Owens won't cost a player to get, and has more SB's.

Agreed, and besides he's not a possibility for the Sox until that Santana deal gets done with Santana going somewhere else.

If the Twins get Ellsbury, Crisp stays in Boston and he might go to Minnesota instead.

Either way it's best Kenny looks elsewhere...

SoxNation05
12-13-2007, 05:15 PM
I love the Rajai Davis idea and I have thought of that but I don't think Crede alone would just get us Davis alone. Not to mention Joe Bowker's stats are impressive.

AZChiSoxFan
12-14-2007, 08:45 AM
KW looking for a center fielder reminds me of Geraldo Rivera looking for Al Capone's vault.

Classic!!!! I love it!

the1tab
12-14-2007, 08:50 AM
Let's not forget that Crisp costs 10x's what J.O. costs, and their OBPs are nearly identical. Save the $3.5mm, and spend it on a reliever. CF didn't cost us 10 games in the first half of the season, it was the bullpen, or lack thereof.

I keep hearing "He costs too much" and "Save the money and spend it on ____"

WHO'S LEFT TO SPEND IT ON??

Eckstein's in Toronto now, all the CFs are gone, there are no legit relievers left on the market... Kenny was so worried about spending too much money that he spend $18mm on Linebrink and NOTHING ELSE. He's been cheap to the point that now he has a war chest and the mall's closed.

Maybe we'll find a nice free agent or two in 2008-09 that might want to play here and Kenny actually makes an offer they accept.

Taliesinrk
12-14-2007, 09:05 AM
I keep hearing "He costs too much" and "Save the money and spend it on ____"

WHO'S LEFT TO SPEND IT ON??

Eckstein's in Toronto now, all the CFs are gone, there are no legit relievers left on the market... Kenny was so worried about spending too much money that he spend $18mm on Linebrink and NOTHING ELSE. He's been cheap to the point that now he has a war chest and the mall's closed.

Maybe we'll find a nice free agent or two in 2008-09 that might want to play here and Kenny actually makes an offer they accept.

So because KW didn't spend the money this offseason, will ticket prices go back down for this season?

wassagstdu
12-14-2007, 05:52 PM
How about Jayson Werth (OBP/SLG/AVG = .404/.459/.298)? Hiits LHP very well. Excellent fielder, can run and steal. And the Phillies are apparently planning to platoon him in right.