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View Full Version : Your faith in Kenny?


WhiteSox5187
12-12-2007, 05:07 PM
I just want to see where the fan base stands on this...

Tekijawa
12-12-2007, 05:09 PM
I picture him with a big "Mission Accomplished" Banner behind him at Sox Fest and answering every question with "We need to Stay the course"

munchman33
12-12-2007, 05:10 PM
I don't question Kenny's ability. I don't blame Kenny for the mess the team is in. But a lot of **** went bad. We've got a lot of bad contracts now. We've got very little developing in the minors. The real problem is there isn't a way out that involves competing in the next few years.

So in that case, no I don't have faith in Kenny, in so far as I don't believe any GM could build a winner with our roster, minors, and payroll restrictions.

soxfan43
12-12-2007, 05:12 PM
Kenny is backed into a corner. He ran his mouth about having a big winter, and now he looks real bad. He can't just blow up the team, the casual fans won't understand the plan and attendance will drop fast. And the team as currently constructed is light years behind the AL powers.

russ99
12-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Despite my disappointment in the Rowand signing, I'm still going to give him the benefit of the doubt until Feb 1st. to fix this team.

If we have the same team in Feb. as we do now, I certainly won't be spending the same amount on Sox games as I did the last 3-4 years.

AJ Hellraiser
12-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Kenny is backed into a corner. He ran his mouth about having a big winter, and now he looks real bad. He can't just blow up the team, the casual fans won't understand the plan and attendance will drop fast. And the team as currently constructed is light years behind the AL powers.

I completely agree.. in July when this franchise was at a crossroads about rebuilding or attempting to stay competitive he chose the latter... He re-signed Buehrle and Dye instead of making trades for youngsters and promised the fan base we'd have an active offseason and contend in 2008...

Sure, if we traded those 2 and others the fan base would have been angry, but now I don't know where this franchise stands...

I know we are getting older... I know we are currently worse than in 2008.... I know we have not had a very active offseason, or at least not in terms of the type of activity many of us wanted... I know our competition has gotten better and I know our farm system is the worst in baseball...

KW has grown very stubborn.. he runs his mouth too much and he is losing touch with the White Sox fan base... there are some serious issues right now

peeonwrigley
12-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Kenny is backed into a corner. He ran his mouth about having a big winter, and now he looks real bad. He can't just blow up the team, the casual fans won't understand the plan and attendance will drop fast. And the team as currently constructed is light years behind the AL powers.

Agreed on all counts. Its up to him to get out of the mess he built - and I'd imagine Jerry will give him at least 2 years to do it.

MUsoxfan
12-12-2007, 05:23 PM
I'm in the category between the top two options of the poll. He knows what he's doing and he's a very smart man. I refuse to believe that all the talent that's on this roster will collectively under-perform two years in a row.

chisoxmike
12-12-2007, 05:23 PM
Kenny has had one shining moment in his seven years as GM.

I don't doubt his passion. I know he aims high too, but his constant complaining about "market value" and "a market correction" is getting old.


I don't like the price of some of the things I buy, but I have no choice but to pay it, because that's price.

Elvisfan1977
12-12-2007, 05:24 PM
took a dive today when Rowand signed with the Giants. I know a lot of people on this site don't want Rowand back but now we're left with the possibility of Coco Crisp. What happened to the Flying Under the Radar mentality? It seems we've abandoned this attituted. I'm beginning to wonder if players are steering away from the Sox or if there are internal problems in the front office making things harder for Kenny. Either way, he's not being as resourceful as he was in 05. He needs to get back to that.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 05:25 PM
What is with all this 'Kenny running his mouth about a big off season coming from?'. I can't remember one instance where Kenny 'ran his mouth' about what the White Sox were going to do this winter, the hint I can think of is after the Cabrera or Linebrink signing when he said 'were still in line to get some big fish'. Other then that the rest of this white sox huge offseason has been standard rumors from Cowley and Levine which never panned out. Kenny has had a rough off season this year but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for making good deals in the past i.e. getting Garcia for Reed, and Olivo/ trading Garcia (who would later be injured) away and getting Floyd and Gio back. This year I'm sure he had a lot of plans but with a little rough luck I don't think we can really blame Kenny here. He was simply outbid by the Angels, Kenny never had a chance to make a counter offer as they never got back to him. With Miguel Cabrera and Willis, the Tigers just had an irresistible package that the White Sox could not match. The White Sox made a solid offer to Fukudome, but he appeared as if he'd much rather play with the cubs and be their first Japanese player. Rowand I'm not sure what happened there, that appears to me to be the only one that Kenny missed out on. He took a run at each and every one of these players but simply got beat. He wasn't sitting in his chair just pouting the whole time. Give the guy a break.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 05:26 PM
I voted for the first one, but I don't think we'll be getting a WS in 2008, and the 2005 world series isn't the only reason why I have faith in Kenny.

AJ Hellraiser
12-12-2007, 05:28 PM
What is with all this 'Kenny running his mouth about a big off season coming from?'. I can't remember one instance where Kenny 'ran his mouth' about what the White Sox were going to do this winter, the hint I can think of is after the Cabrera or Linebrink signing when he said 'were still in line to get some big fish'. Other then that the rest of this white sox huge offseason has been standard rumors from Cowley and Levine which never panned out. Kenny has had a rough off season this year but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for making good deals in the past i.e. getting Garcia for Reed, and Olivo/ trading Garcia (who would later be injured) away and getting Floyd and Gio back. This year I'm sure he had a lot of plans but with a little rough luck I don't think we can really blame Kenny here. He was simply outbid by the Angels, Kenny never had a chance to make a counter offer as they never got back to him. With Miguel Cabrera and Willis, the Tigers just had an irresistible package that the White Sox could not match. The White Sox made a solid offer to Fukudome, but he appeared as if he'd much rather play with the cubs and be their first Japanese player. Rowand I'm not sure what happened there, that appears to me to be the only one that Kenny missed out on. He took a run at each and every one of these players but simply got beat. He wasn't sitting in his chair just pouting the whole time. Give the guy a break.

How many breaks does one get? This is the ultimate question... after winning a Super Bowl or World Series how big a window does it open up for people? What I am saying is that this team had clear holes and he said he wanted to contend in 2008... I am waiting for him to fill those holes... with no leadoff hitter, Cabrera does the SOX no good in the 2 hole... So, assuming 2008 is miserable again... how many breaks does KW get next offseason if he doesn't land big names?

alohafri
12-12-2007, 05:31 PM
Kenny caught lightning in a bottle in the offseason before 2005. He got lucky. I think as time went on, the rest of the league realized what an arrogant prick he is and won't deal with him unless he can be fleeced. This offseason he made promises that his ass couldn't keep and we the fans will suffer.

At this point, I say trade everyone over the age of 30...everyone. If we are going to rebuild, let's do it this season. If we are going to suck, I want to see a crappy team with a bunch of kids who might be a part of our future.

Yes, this is a reactionary post to the fact that we have lost out on two free agent outfielders that we had a good shot at. Face the facts, the only way this team competes even for the Central is if the Tigers and Indians are contracted. Even then we have the scrappy Royals and the Twins with their farm system that always seems to find good players.

To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, "If Kenny Williams isn't going to use the White Sox, I should like to borrow them."

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 05:31 PM
How many breaks does one get? This is the ultimate question... after winning a Super Bowl or World Series how big a window does it open up for people? What I am saying is that this team had clear holes and he said he wanted to contend in 2008... I am waiting for him to fill those holes... with no leadoff hitter, Cabrera does the SOX no good in the 2 hole... So, assuming 2008 is miserable again... how many breaks does KW get next offseason if he doesn't land big names?

It is only December 12, so there's plenty of time for him to try and fill those holes.

alohafri
12-12-2007, 05:33 PM
It is only December 12, so there's plenty of time for him to try and fill those holes.

With Coco Crisp or Mike Cameron? No thanks!

soxfan21
12-12-2007, 05:34 PM
I had a lot of faith in Kenny up to about this off-season. I liked it better when he was quiet about the moves that he was going to make that way when something was done, the fans did not hear about it until it was done.
This off-season is different because right off the bat Kenny started talking about all of the moves that he was going to make and how he was going to land the "big fish" and stuff like that. When these moves did not come to be, it made him look bad. It also doesn't help with all of the bad press that he is getting in the media as well.
There is still a lot of time left to get things done before the season starts, and Kenny is known to make late pre-season moves, so it will be interesting to see what happens with all of this.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 05:36 PM
With Coco Crisp or Mike Cameron? No thanks!

Who says he's going after them? Joe Cowley? Phil Rogers? For all we know he could be working on a blockbuster type deal to get Vernon Wells. The truth is this is all just idle speculation and we won't know who Kenny wants for CF or lead off until they're on the 40 man roster.

AJ Hellraiser
12-12-2007, 05:42 PM
It is only December 12, so there's plenty of time for him to try and fill those holes.

I am just real curios now as to how he does this... we don't have pieces people want in trades and our money isn't getting us very far as the FA market has trimmed..

Noneck
12-12-2007, 05:45 PM
A GM can only be judged by the moves he makes not by ones that didn't happen. We don't and will never have all the info why a move didn't happen.
A GM is just a paid employee and has restraints. What these restraints are not for public knowledge and makes judging a GM a very difficult thing to do. I'll take a pass on this poll.

alohafri
12-12-2007, 05:45 PM
Who says he's going after them? Joe Cowley? Phil Rogers? For all we know he could be working on a blockbuster type deal to get Vernon Wells. The truth is this is all just idle speculation and we won't know who Kenny wants for CF or lead off until they're on the 40 man roster.

He would have to trade Buehrle, Dye, Uribe, and throw in Nancy Faust to get Vernon Wells.

What do we really have to trade to make us competetive in 2008? Back up the truck...beep...beep...beep.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 05:46 PM
Ive been saying it for a while. He should be on the hotseat after the terrible team he put together last year. Next year should be make or break. Anything below 3rd place and he should be fired.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 05:47 PM
He would have to trade Buehrle, Dye, Uribe, and throw in Nancy Faust to get Vernon Wells.

What do we really have to trade to make us competetive in 2008? Back up the truck...beep...beep...beep.

I honestly don't believe he's after Wells, I just used it as an example. We don't know what Kenny is doing and won't know until he makes the deal.

gobears1987
12-12-2007, 05:47 PM
Having to start either Anderson or Owens in CF and having no legitimate lead-off has made me lose a lot of faith in Kenny.

He spoke a big game and hasn't delivered as of yet.

I want him to do some major moves between now and Opening Day. Kenny has time and he has pulled off some amazing trades in the past.

I'll reserve final judgement until the day the Sox either win the division or are eliminated from the playoff race. Whatever event occurs on that day will determine what I think of Kenny and his future with this team.

Yes it sucks not getting Fukudome, Jones, Rowand, or Hunter, but this is about the most levelheaded assessment I can give.

JB98
12-12-2007, 05:53 PM
Having to start either Anderson or Owens in CF and having no legitimate lead-off has made me lose a lot of faith in Kenny.

He spoke a big game and hasn't delivered as of yet.

I want him to do some major moves between now and Opening Day. Kenny has time and he has pulled off some amazing trades in the past.

I'll reserve final judgement until the day the Sox either win the division or are eliminated from the playoff race. Whatever event occurs on that day will determine what I think of Kenny and his future with this team.

Yes it sucks not getting Fukudome, Jones, Rowand, or Hunter, but this is about the most levelheaded assessment I can give.

Kenny talked a big game, and as a season-ticket holder, I renewed despite a price increase coming off a 90-loss season.

There's plenty of offseason left, and then 162 games to play. But if we suck again, I won't be tolerant of excuses.

gamblinkenny
12-12-2007, 05:53 PM
the free agent market is ridiculous this year. most of these teams will be kicking themselves in 2-3 years for giving these long-term big money deals.

Kenny needs to forget about position players now, and focus on solidifying the rotation and bullpen. The lineup will be lacking some pop from the outfielders, but if he can shift his focus to starting pitching and middle relief we could still be alright...pitching trumps hitting.

munchman33
12-12-2007, 05:54 PM
It is only December 12, so there's plenty of time for him to try and fill those holes.

With what? I'm so ****ing sick and tired of that bull**** answer. The time to filll the holes with QUALITY players has come and gone. All that's left is the junk heap. You might be able to find one diamond there. Not eight or nine.

It's time to come to terms with reality. The reality is we suck and we need to blow it up.

soxfan43
12-12-2007, 05:55 PM
Kenny caught lightning in a bottle in the offseason before 2005. He got lucky. I think as time went on, the rest of the league realized what an arrogant prick he is and won't deal with him unless he can be fleeced. This offseason he made promises that his ass couldn't keep and we the fans will suffer.

At this point, I say trade everyone over the age of 30...everyone. If we are going to rebuild, let's do it this season. If we are going to suck, I want to see a crappy team with a bunch of kids who might be a part of our future.

Yes, this is a reactionary post to the fact that we have lost out on two free agent outfielders that we had a good shot at. Face the facts, the only way this team competes even for the Central is if the Tigers and Indians are contracted. Even then we have the scrappy Royals and the Twins with their farm system that always seems to find good players.

To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, "If Kenny Williams isn't going to use the White Sox, I should like to borrow them."


Couldn't agree more. Rarely if ever does every offseason move pan out, that's what happened before 2005. Kenny got cocky and arrogant, now it seems the only teams he can do deals with are Arizona and Philly.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 05:57 PM
With what? I'm so ****ing sick and tired of that bull**** answer. The time to filll the holes with QUALITY players has come and gone. All that's left is the junk heap. You might be able to find one diamond there. Not eight or nine.

It's time to come to terms with reality. The reality is we suck and we need to blow it up.

Didn't you hear. Kenny is flying under the radar. From what is being reported its a safe bet Kenny is simply just picking between Wells-Beltran-Ichiro and Sizemore between now and spring training.

MUsoxfan
12-12-2007, 05:57 PM
It's time to come to terms with reality. The reality is we suck and we need to blow it up.


:rolleyes:

Nobody knows if we suck or if we don't. There are good players on this team. Several of them

JRIG
12-12-2007, 05:57 PM
With what? I'm so ****ing sick and tired of that bull**** answer. The time to filll the holes with QUALITY players has come and gone. All that's left is the junk heap. You might be able to find one diamond there. Not eight or nine.


Plus, with most of the free agents gone at this point, trading is the best way to acquire talent. But...that means we have to part with talent in return, especially minor league prospects that we don't really have.

Dolanski
12-12-2007, 06:00 PM
From the suntimes article


Fukudome wanted to be an organizationís first Japanese player


I know everyone is freaking out about this guy signing elsewhere, but CMON. If that is one of his reasons, he obviously is a me first kinda guy. Not to mention what a stupid reason to pick a team that is.

MUsoxfan
12-12-2007, 06:04 PM
From the suntimes article



I know everyone is freaking out about this guy signing elsewhere, but CMON. If that is one of his reasons, he obviously is a me first kinda guy. Not to mention what a stupid reason to pick a team that is.


That's his "reason". The real reason is that the Cubs have a national following like the Yankees and Red Sox. Also, the Cubs made the playoffs this year while the Rangers and White Sox sat at the bottom of their divisions.

alohafri
12-12-2007, 06:05 PM
:rolleyes:

Nobody knows if we suck or if we don't. There are good players on this team. Several of them

Who gave MUsoxfan the Cubbie Kool-Aid?

soxfanreggie
12-12-2007, 06:06 PM
After hearing him give the spiel about going out and getting top guys in the offseason, it is hard to get excited when you watch all the top guys go elsewhere. It's hard to give out big contracts, but it seems like most organizations that aren't us, are getting big name FAs or making plays at the top guys on the trading board.

Yes, there is a good chance that a lot of these teams will be kicking themselves in a few years, but those teams will more likely have a better chance at competing the next few seasons as well. You have to weigh between getting the guys who will most likely make you better or kicking yourself 2, 3, or 4 years from now.

I don't know what JR's plans are for the GM position if we have a bad year this year. It's tough to shell out in the top 5 of payrolls, regardless if you win a WS a few years ago, and continue to lose.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 06:06 PM
With what? I'm so ****ing sick and tired of that bull**** answer. The time to filll the holes with QUALITY players has come and gone. All that's left is the junk heap. You might be able to find one diamond there. Not eight or nine.

It's time to come to terms with reality. The reality is we suck and we need to blow it up.

Get off the ledge already. Kenny made the effort and got beat. I said it before and I guess I'll have to say it again since some people don't know how to read. He offered Torii Hunter exactly what he wanted, 5 years 75 million. The Angels then offered the 5 year 90 million and then Hunter and his agent never got back to Williams to let him counter offer. Kenny then offered Josh Fields along with Gio Gonzalez and some other prospects for Miguel Cabrera and then got outbid by the Tigers since they simply had a better package to offer which Kenny couldn't match. He made a better off to Fukudome then the Cubs, Fukudome decided to sign with the Cubs because they previously had no japanese players. The only thing Kenny missed out on this offseason was Aaron Rowand and he wouldn't have put us over the hump, yes he would have been an upgrade but he wouldn't have made us a contender just like that.

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 06:07 PM
With what? I'm so ****ing sick and tired of that bull**** answer. The time to filll the holes with QUALITY players has come and gone. All that's left is the junk heap. You might be able to find one diamond there. Not eight or nine.

It's time to come to terms with reality. The reality is we suck and we need to blow it up.

8 or 9? If the Sox had that many holes to fill, there was never a chance for next year, period.

You know it may be that KW has decided to give up on next year. I doubt it, because he reportedly made the top money offer on Fukudome, but honestly, if he did decide to develop some young talent next year, see how the veterans progressed, made some trades to shore up the future and then got back on the horse in 2009 with money to spend and a stronger younger core team to build around, it would be okay with me.

Most of these big signings seem to be about taking a big contract in an effort to win now. Of the players who have signed, the only contract I really like is Jones because of the length and because if he bounces back to career averages, he will be a huge addition.

There's been an awful lot of huge bombs going off so far and I am sure that KW isn't the only one who is a bit shell shocked at the nature of the signings and trades that have occured. I for one wouldn't fault him if the way things have fallen if he's changed his plans and/or mind recently about the best course of action.

I really doubt that's true though. I think he's still going to try to improve the team and play for this year provided he can do it without mortgaging the future of the team.

The question is do I have faith that KW can make the moves to put the Sox in contention if not this year than next? Absolutely. I believe he can do it in the years to follow also.

The question I have for the other folks who are still hung up on ranting about lost opportunities (and if Aaron Rowand at 5/$60M is an opportunity than I agree with KW - it's time to pass). Why not wait and see what comes next now? I mean what's to gain by screaming for KW's head at this juncture in the game? He's pulled some rabbits out of his hat and been right more than he's been wrong in the past, IMO.

Things may not be perfect at the moment, but they are still damned interesting...

soxfan43
12-12-2007, 06:10 PM
Get off the ledge already. Kenny made the effort and got beat. I said it before and I guess I'll have to say it again since some people don't know how to read. He offered Torii Hunter exactly what he wanted, 5 years 75 million. The Angels then offered the 5 year 90 million and then Hunter and his agent never got back to Williams to let him counter offer. Kenny then offered Josh Fields along with Gio Gonzalez and some other prospects for Miguel Cabrera and then got outbid by the Tigers since they simply had a better package to offer which Kenny couldn't match. He made a better off to Fukudome then the Cubs, Fukudome decided to sign with the Cubs because they previously had no japanese players. The only thing Kenny missed out on this offseason was Aaron Rowand and he wouldn't have put us over the hump, yes he would have been an upgrade but he wouldn't have made us a contender just like that.

And whose fault is it we don't have the young talent? Yes, I know it's not all Kenny's fault, but come on. It's not the individual players he lost out on either, its the big picture. After one of the worst seasons ever on the southside, the team is no better shape now. I know it's december, but there is nothing left in free agency and the Sox clearly don't have the young talent teams are looking for.

MUsoxfan
12-12-2007, 06:10 PM
Who gave MUsoxfan the Cubbie Kool-Aid?

I just feel I'm being more sensible than most on this board and I'm not willing to abandon ship because these uber-high priced guys are going elsewhere. I'm not too sure that any of these guys were the answer for this team.

If this team plays to what it's capable of playing, it's really not a bad team. The Tigers are really really good right now on paper, and I don't feel anything we could have done would make us look as good or better on paper.

CLR01
12-12-2007, 06:10 PM
The reality is we suck and we need to blow it up.

Are you forgetting 2005??? We won the world series. This team is set.

Noneck
12-12-2007, 06:11 PM
From the suntimes article



I know everyone is freaking out about this guy signing elsewhere, but CMON. If that is one of his reasons, he obviously is a me first kinda guy. Not to mention what a stupid reason to pick a team that is.
You may hear a lot of bs from players why they picked a certain team. It may be covering up the truth that can't be told. Like, "I think the other team that was bidding for me has no chance of winning in the near future and currently doesn't show a commitment to winning." But it could also be all about be paid more money.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 06:13 PM
And whose fault is it we don't have the young talent? Yes, I know it's not all Kenny's fault, but come on. It's not the individual players he lost out on either, its the big picture. After one of the worst seasons ever on the southside, the team is no better shape now. I know it's december, but there is nothing left in free agency and the Sox clearly don't have the young talent teams are looking for.

Of the young talent traded away Chris Young has been the only one to really pan out, and for Javy Vazquez that's fine with me.

Law11
12-12-2007, 06:19 PM
Kenny is backed into a corner. He ran his mouth about having a big winter, and now he looks real bad. He can't just blow up the team, the casual fans won't understand the plan and attendance will drop fast. And the team as currently constructed is light years behind the AL powers.

he just needs to shut his yap.

My dad used to tell me don't expect big things from people and you wont be dissapointed.

Kenny is promising big things.. When it blows up we are all left like little pouting kids who were left with empty promises. We see all our other friends getting stuff and we are like why cant we have that too...:whiner:

gobears1987
12-12-2007, 06:20 PM
I think I need a barf bag after reading this thread.

We can't judge Kenny over this team until we see these guys hit the field.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 06:21 PM
he just needs to shut his yap.

Kenny is promising big things.

When did Kenny promise anything. I'm serious I never read anywhere Kenny promising the fans anything or telling us what he was doing this offseason, could someone give me a link. All I remember this offseason is Joe Cowley and Bruce Levine saying what Kenny was going to do and to be honest I don't consider them too reliable in that department.

goon
12-12-2007, 06:26 PM
This thread is ****ing stupid. That is all.

pdimas
12-12-2007, 06:26 PM
I just feel I'm being more sensible than most on this board and I'm not willing to abandon ship because these uber-high priced guys are going elsewhere. I'm not too sure that any of these guys were the answer for this team.

If this team plays to what it's capable of playing, it's really not a bad team. The Tigers are really really good right now on paper, and I don't feel anything we could have done would make us look as good or better on paper.


I agree thats why they play the games. I mean **** happens. 19 mil a year for Torii **** it let them have him for that price. Cabrera would have been great but making us take Willis as well?? I wouldn't have traded the farm for that one either (not that there is much farm to speak of...) Fukudome - it seems like we made a better offer than the Cubs and it was a personal choice and finally Rowand I love the guy to death but....

We were in the thick of things. But with what he has to work with and the other teams competing for the same free agents...I only wish it were that easy to get anyone we wanted. Just imagine if we would have outbid and overpaid. People most assuredly would be *****ing about getting saddled with an overpaid player for five years. I also love how people keep insinuating how cheap the Sox are...unbelievable...

Don't get me wrong I ****ing hate losing. I really wanted the Sox to get Hunter, Cabrera and Fukudome...it didn't happen so why spend time *****ing and crying. Yeah it sucks but nothing is gonna change. For all of the doom and gloom around here I gotta say I am feeling pretty optimistic about the upcoming year. Last year was just way to flukey. I think this team will surprise a lot of people. (after all we can't really be as bad as last year.....can we?)

MetroPD
12-12-2007, 06:27 PM
I picture him with a big "Mission Accomplished" Banner behind him at Sox Fest and answering every question with "We need to Stay the course"
So in other words you prefer cut and run.

btrain929
12-12-2007, 06:28 PM
When did Kenny promise anything. I'm serious I never read anywhere Kenny promising the fans anything or telling us what he was doing this offseason, could someone give me a link. All I remember this offseason is Joe Cowley and Bruce Levine saying what Kenny was going to do and to be honest I don't consider them too reliable in that department.

He has been quoted many times that he will bring in a big fish, and he'll be damned if last year happens again. All of those statements leads us to believe a lot will occur this offseason. I love Linebrink for our bullpen, but he is not a big fish. He definitely hyped up this offseason, and it just hasn't lived up to the hype. If he said he truly believes we are only a few moves away from being competitive for the league, and nothing else, he might not get as much scrutiny.

ilsox7
12-12-2007, 06:29 PM
He has been quoted many times that he will bring in a big fish, and he'll be damned if last year happens again. All of those statements leads us to believe a lot will occur this offseason. I love Linebrink for our bullpen, but he is not a big fish. He definitely hyped up this offseason, and it just hasn't lived up to the hype. If he said he truly believes we are only a few moves away from being competitive for the league, and nothing else, he might not get as much scrutiny.

This is why JR bought two yachts from me. They are specially equipped for deep sea fishing. There will be a big fish caught.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 06:29 PM
The question I have for the other folks who are still hung up on ranting about lost opportunities (and if Aaron Rowand at 5/$60M is an opportunity than I agree with KW - it's time to pass). Why not wait and see what comes next now? I mean what's to gain by screaming for KW's head at this juncture in the game? He's pulled some rabbits out of his hat and been right more than he's been wrong in the past, IMO.

Things may not be perfect at the moment, but they are still damned interesting...

I don't disagree with most of your post but I do with that. At best Kenny is 50/50 on his rolls of the dice. For every Dye and AJ and El Duque there has been a Toby Hall (so far no good), Erstad, Colon, Wells, Ritchie, Brian Anderson etc.

At some point Kenny has to held responsible for the fact he has been our GM 7 years and we have made the playoffs 1 time. I know 2006 was disappointing, but he gambled that he would watch the ship turn back upright and not sink instead of getting the reinforcements to get it on course, and he lost, and watched it sink.

It just seems like a Broken Record from Kenny, kind of like a Jerry Angelo draft. After the offseason he talks about how losing is no longer an option, he has a bad taste in his mouth, hes going after the big boys. Then we passes on said big boys, brings aboard an Erstad and a Hall, uses a throw enough **** on the wall something will stick approach for the bullpen, and hopes it comes together. hes 1/7.

It also has to say something that Kenny really only has 2-4 teams he makes trades with. Are other GM's that reluctant to work with him?

Its amazing how the mighty has fallen. 2 years ago we had the Kenny is Chuck Norris thread, we were in an uproar because ESPN had dissed out GM and not ranked him in their top 5, and all Kenny and the Sox have done is continue to fall since then.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 06:31 PM
He has been quoted many times that he will bring in a big fish, and he'll be damned if last year happens again. All of those statements leads us to believe a lot will occur this offseason. I love Linebrink for our bullpen, but he is not a big fish. He definitely hyped up this offseason, and it just hasn't lived up to the hype. If he said he truly believes we are only a few moves away from being competitive for the league, and nothing else, he might not get as much scrutiny.

so we should be pissed off at Kenny for what he lead us to believe?? Give me a ****ing break. He never said he was going to bring in a big fish. He said 'we are still in a position to land some big fish'. Which they were but simply got outbid. He never promised anything he said a few things which a bunch of writers and fans took to mean we're signing Torii Hunter and then trading for Miguel Cabrera. Ridiculous I must say.

pdimas
12-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Unbelievable... some of these responses.


Guess what guys there isn't a Santa either...

Your parents lied!!!!!

Your dad ate the cookies and drank the milk!!!

Do you guys feel betrayed now.....

soxfanreggie
12-12-2007, 06:38 PM
I would have signed Rowand to a $13 mil, maybe $14 mil contract. Over 4 years, that would have been $52-56 mil. I don't think it's that much more to go 5 years, $60 mil. That disappoints me.

Granted that $13 or $14 mil might be overpaying, it's how the market is. If we aren't willing to pay market value for anyone, we're not going to be able to land many, if any, free agents.

JB98
12-12-2007, 06:41 PM
Unbelievable... some of these responses.


Guess what guys there isn't a Santa either...

Your parents lied!!!!!

Your dad ate the cookies and drank the milk!!!

Do you guys feel betrayed now.....

My parents didn't raise the prices for season tickets, however.

CLR01
12-12-2007, 06:43 PM
My parents didn't raise the prices for season tickets, however.

Mine left some pretty kick ass gifts too. Not Jerry Owens. http://whitesoxinteractive.com/chisox716/shrug.gif

Slats
12-12-2007, 06:46 PM
so we should be pissed off at Kenny for what he lead us to believe?? Give me a ****ing break. He never said he was going to bring in a big fish. He said 'we are still in a position to land some big fish'. Which they were but simply got outbid. He never promised anything he said a few things which a bunch of writers and fans took to mean we're signing Torii Hunter and then trading for Miguel Cabrera. Ridiculous I must say.

Ahem......"We're still out there trying to land some big fish" (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=80972)

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 06:48 PM
I don't disagree with most of your post but I do with that. At best Kenny is 50/50 on his rolls of the dice. For every Dye and AJ and El Duque there has been a Toby Hall (so far no good), Erstad, Colon, Wells, Ritchie, Brian Anderson etc.

At some point Kenny has to held responsible for the fact he has been our GM 7 years and we have made the playoffs 1 time. I know 2006 was disappointing, but he gambled that he would watch the ship turn back upright and not sink instead of getting the reinforcements to get it on course, and he lost, and watched it sink.

It just seems like a Broken Record from Kenny, kind of like a Jerry Angelo draft. After the offseason he talks about how losing is no longer an option, he has a bad taste in his mouth, hes going after the big boys. Then we passes on said big boys, brings aboard an Erstad and a Hall, uses a throw enough **** on the wall something will stick approach for the bullpen, and hopes it comes together. hes 1/7.

It also has to say something that Kenny really only has 2-4 teams he makes trades with. Are other GM's that reluctant to work with him?

Its amazing how the mighty has fallen. 2 years ago we had the Kenny is Chuck Norris thread, we were in an uproar because ESPN had dissed out GM and not ranked him in their top 5, and all Kenny and the Sox have done is continue to fall since then.

Well, I don't consider Erstad a big signing. He took a chance on him, but it wasn't a big risk. Richie ended up not costing us much in hindsight. Wells didn't cost the Sox anything but money either.

Maybe I should rephrase. KW has gotten a LOT better in recent years about making good signings/trades. Jury is still out on Hall - he got hurt bad last year and he's a backup anyway. The starters KW has acquired have been for the most part excellent, or do I need to remind you how many players from the 2005 squad were on the team because KW brought them here?

AJ
Gooch
Uribe
Pods
Contreras
Hernandez
Dye
Jenks
Politte
Hermanson
Etc.

And no, I'm not trying to say that KW deserves a pass forever for doing so, but he built that team himself and did most of it in one off season, so your 50/50 rating is seriously lacking in perspective, IMO.

barryball
12-12-2007, 06:51 PM
I like the trades Kenny made to date and I'm sure he has some more up his sleeve. He improved our BP and SS position as well as landing a good #2 hitter. I also like Quentin in LF and if he can produce .260-275 15 HR/ 70 RBI's / 12 SB / 90 runs / 330 OBP and play a decent LF we have solved three posistions. Even if we got Tori we still needed a lead-off hitter. I would rather spend money on pitching and forget about the Miguel Cabrera and Hunter's of the world we have enough big hitters on ths team with Konerko, Dye, Thome, Fields and possibly Crede and to a lesssor extent AJ. What we need is speed and bat control and O Cabrera, Owens and Richar give us that along with Carlos Quentin. BA or RS can be our 4th OF. What we need to do is upgrade our SP with a #4 or $5 starter, add a another MR and Utility INF. I do think that Juan Peirre would both be upgrades over Owens as would Crisp and increase our depth but it depends on what needs to be given up. Let's face it if we start out hitting like last year it dosen't matter anyway. Every team has if's and as it stands today I like our BP over the Tigers and Indians. Yes they have better power line-ups but lack overall team speed. The season is not over and as they say no one wins on paper so let's play the games and see what happens. We all thought the 84 team was unbeatable as we did the 2006 team. One trade that would be a big plus is to get Haren or Bedard for essentially the same deal offered for Cabrera. Pitching is always king so our focus should be there.

:):supernana:

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 06:53 PM
Well, I don't consider Erstad a big signing. He took a chance on him, but it wasn't a big risk. Richie ended up not costing us much in hindsight. Wells didn't cost the Sox anything but money either.

Maybe I should rephrase. KW has gotten a LOT better in recent years about making good signings/trades. Jury is still out on Hall - he got hurt bad last year and he's a backup anyway. The starters KW has acquired have been for the most part excellent, or do I need to remind you how many players from the 2005 squad were on the team because KW brought them here?

AJ
Gooch
Uribe
Pods
Contreras
Hernandez
Dye
Jenks
Politte
Hermanson
Etc.

And no, I'm not trying to say that KW deserves a pass forever for doing so, but he built that team himself and did most of it in one off season, so your 50/50 rating is seriously lacking in perspective, IMO.


After another typical Kenny Williams we will win speech, he signed Erstad, penciled him in as our CF and 1/2 hitter in the lineup next to Pods who was equally as injury prone....Just because he sucked doesn't mean he was not a big signing (or expected to play a big role).

I think the reality is Kenny would rather go this route, signing all these fringe guys, because there is less risk of them bottoming out, then he would sign a big free agent.

Kenny has never and will never be a player in Free Agency, atleast in terms of getting proven talent. He would rather try and find these Diamonds in the rough and use other GM's trash to be his treasure. It has worked 1 time in 7 years, Its not a system I have a hell of a lot of confidence in. To some extent he got very lucky the offseason. No one else would touch AJ and we needed a catcher, everyone else passed on Gooch and we had slick willie at 2nd. I mean yes he pulled the trigger, but these were his type of guys.

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 06:56 PM
After another typical Kenny Williams we will win speeches, he signed Erstad, penciled him in as our CF and 1/2 hitter in the lineup next to Pods who was equally as injury prone....Just because he sucked doesn't mean he was not a big signing (or expected to play a big role)

Meh... He's still way better than 50/50 and just because his most recent season was a bust and this off season hasn't lived up to expectations doesn't mean the over all record isn't good...

santo=dorf
12-12-2007, 06:58 PM
Are you forgetting 2005??? We won the world series. This team is set.
I love this response. :cool:

We have 10 months until the World Series starts. What's the big worry about? That's PLENTY of time to improve the team.

pearso66
12-12-2007, 07:00 PM
Ahem......"We're still out there trying to land some big fish" (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=80972)


To be fair, he did say "trying to land some big fish" he didn't say they were going to.

I, just like everyone, am disappointed with this offseason, but can you blame KW for not brining in the players that we wanted? If you want to get mad about not getting Hunter, isn't Reinsdorf more to blame? As for not having the farm system, shouldn't Reinsdorf be blamed for not putting more money into the scouting? If it's true that the Sox offered the most money for Fukodome, and he signed elsewhere, how is that Kenny's fault? All you can do is a GM is try, and work with what you're given. With that, Kenny has done a pretty good job, but you're always going to win some and lose some.

Also, sure Kenny has only made it to the post season one time, but I'll take 1 postseason trip with the World Series victory over 7 post season trips and 0 World Series victories. It's not like 06 was that big of a disappointment also as people are saying. They did win 90 games, it just happened they were in a division where 2 other teams won more than them.

Right now, the Sox don't look good going into the season, but I'll still watch, and maybe I'm in the minority, but I would like to see them give Anderson a real shot next year. Even if he doesn't hit, I'd rather see him in CF than Owens.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 07:01 PM
Ahem......"We're still out there trying to land some big fish" (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=80972)

Thank you for proving my point. He didn't promise anything, he said 'we're trying to land some big fish'. Did he not try or something???? Seriously people are overreacting.

HBaines03
12-12-2007, 07:05 PM
I think we have to cut Kenny a little slack. He went out this offseason with a plan and unfortunately we lost Hunter and Miggy Cabrera who both were on his list. Hunter has made comments that he didn't feel right going to the competitor (since he was with Minny) so how do we not know that Hunter was playing KW all along. I got word from a Cubs fan today that Fukodome had an offer on the table from the Sox worth more than what the Cubs offered but he wanted to play RF (his natural spot) and also wanted to be the first Japanese player on that team. Hard to fight those sitautions when trying to land FA to better your ball club. For all we know Florida may have wanted to package Miggy and Dontrelle together and we didn't want Dontrelle so we were done. I still look at the fact that we had a 2005 WSC and a 90 win season last year (that should have been better). Only winning 72 games last season is not on KW's head. That is on the head of the players and coaches. KW can get everything that all of us want and still not win because players don't perform or coaches don't coach.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 07:05 PM
ITs still a BS arguement. The guys are great finds if they work out and meaningless if they fail? Thats not discussion thats being hard headed.

AJ
Gooch
Uribe
Pods
Contreras
Hernandez
Dye
Jenks
Politte
Hermanson
Etc.


Erstad
Massett
Macdougal
Sisco
Aardsma
Wells
Colon
Ritchie
Cintron
Pods (2006 and 2007 version)
Anderson (or the idea he was proven ready in CF and we needed no one else)
Alomar
Alomar JR


Kenny is a gunslinger man, and no, just because it worked 1 year doesn't make it better then 50-50. Cut it any way you want, he is 1 for 7.

HE won us a world series, I will never deny that. And I havent been on the fire his butt now group, but yes, if he suck again this year, and we finish 4th or 5th, we should have a new GM next year.

All we ever hear about is Kenny and his big board and his 3 year plans and nothing is ever a short plan its all long term, and for all that, we have seen 1 and 1/2 years of elite baseball.

rowand33
12-12-2007, 07:05 PM
I'm upset with the way the offseason has went thus far, and I'd really like Kenny to stop complaining to the media.

However, I feel that anybody that thinks Kenny isn't doing his best is crazy. There are people on WSI that act as if Kenny is actively trying to fail.

The one thing you can always say about Kenny Williams is that he tries to put the best team together to win that season

There are times like 2003 where it didn't work out, but he did everything he could. How was he to know Colon would be average and Koch was done?

There's also 2005 where the stars aligned and everything he did turned to gold.

And then there's 2007, where Kenny was just wrong. Where Sisco and AAArdsma just sucked, and one of our supposed biggest strengths became a glaring weakness. Still though, most of us were happy with the bullpen going into the year; I know I was.

The White Sox know Rowand better than we do; if he wasn't the answser, I believe them. We tried at Hunter, but just got beat. We tried at Cabrera, but just got beat. What can you do? We put up the best offer for Fukudome, and still got beat. Kenny can have his goals, but he can't force guys like Hunter and Fukudome to choose us.

I don't think Kenny should be fired because guys don't want to sign here.

Furthermore, I don't think Kenny's done. I expect another bullpen arm. I expect a starter to compete with the kids. Somebody like Bartolo (and then we could hear Hawk say "C'mon Bartolo" again. A highlight from 2003). And I expect another outfielder. It might not be a leadoff guy. We might go down to plan Z and have Cabrera lead off, but I'll be stunned if we start the season with Quentin-Owens-Dye as our outfield (I can see us signing Patterson to bat at the end of the order and having a platoon of Owens and Quentin in left, however).

Ultimately, while I'm upset that we aren't winning and getting these guys, it's a long season, and who knows what will happen. At the very least, I think Kenny will assemble a roster where if guys play to their potential, we'll be competitive. You can't ask for much more than that.

He really needs to stop whining though. I'm more upset about that than I am with the fact that we keep losing out on these guys.

edit: however, we need to get better at scouting and developing players. Outfield was supposed to be a strength for us. The word "logjam" was used. Well, the shine's off the apple that was Brian Anderson. And Sweeney apparently sucks too. This needs to be addressed or we will never be successful.

gobears1987
12-12-2007, 07:16 PM
Voodoo, would it be too much to ask that you please ban me for a a few days so I can be spared looking at the garbage that dark clouds are posting?

santo=dorf
12-12-2007, 07:22 PM
I picture him with a big "Mission Accomplished" Banner behind him at Sox Fest and answering every question with "We need to Stay the course"
Very grindy (quick and dirty)........



http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5569&d=1197505288

gobears1987
12-12-2007, 07:26 PM
:darkclouds::threadsucks:prozac
:whoflungpoo


These tags may be overused, but each of them demonstrates my feelings.

delben91
12-12-2007, 07:31 PM
HE won us a world series, I will never deny that. And I havent been on the fire his butt now group, but yes, if he suck again this year, and we finish 4th or 5th, we should have a new GM next year.



If you ask me, this is expectations talking. Everyone had high hopes for this offseason based on comments from the team.

If KW had said, obviously not in these words as GMs never would come out and say this, "2008 is going to be a rebuilding year" and the Sox came in 4th, would you still want him fired?

Daver
12-12-2007, 07:33 PM
Voodoo, would it be too much to ask that you please ban me for a a few days so I can be spared looking at the garbage that dark clouds are posting?

If you really want that, yes I can do it.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 07:35 PM
If you ask me, this is expectations talking. Everyone had high hopes for this offseason based on comments from the team.

If KW had said, obviously not in these words as GMs never would come out and say this, "2008 is going to be a rebuilding year" and the Sox came in 4th, would you still want him fired?

No because he would have had a plan.

But he did not come out and say we are building from the ground up. He came out and said we were going to be winners, then had the guts to say cabrera only makes the tigers closer to the Sox level!

What this shows me is Kenny right now, does not have a plan to stick too. He had a plan, it blew up. If we were gong to rebuild, then we should have dealt Burls and Dye and Konerko and Crede.

JB98
12-12-2007, 07:36 PM
If you ask me, this is expectations talking. Everyone had high hopes for this offseason based on comments from the team.

If KW had said, obviously not in these words as GMs never would come out and say this, "2008 is going to be a rebuilding year" and the Sox came in 4th, would you still want him fired?

If he had said, "we are going to retool the roster and get younger," I would have supported him. Instead, he extended Dye and traded Gar for a 33-year-old shortstop. He also overpayed for Linebrink. He's "going for it," but I think he's putting us in a bigger hole in the process.

delben91
12-12-2007, 07:38 PM
What this shows me is Kenny right now, does not have a plan to stick too. He had a plan, it blew up. If we were gong to rebuild, then we should have dealt Burls and Dye and Konerko and Crede.

See, that's sort of my point though. The plan blew up in his face. Fine. Hard to say exactly how much of that was or wasn't his fault. If by spring training he's dumped some of the vets (I think they'd keep Buehrle just for the PR, but what do I know), and makes it clear that's the new plan...

I dunno, just seems to me that even if he changes course now because his plan went up in flames, that no one will care and will still want him drawn and quartered.

MUsoxfan
12-12-2007, 07:38 PM
If he had said, "we are going to retool the roster and get younger," I would have supported him. Instead, he extended Dye and traded Gar for a 33-year-old shortstop. He also overpayed for Linebrink. He's "going for it," but I think he's putting us in a bigger hole in the process.


So would you have supported him if he had overpayed for Rowand, Fukudome or Hunter and not Linebrink (who IMO fills the largest hole on this team)?

delben91
12-12-2007, 07:39 PM
If he had said, "we are going to retool the roster and get younger," I would have supported him. Instead, he extended Dye and traded Gar for a 33-year-old shortstop. He also overpayed for Linebrink. He's "going for it," but I think he's putting us in a bigger hole in the process.

I'm not disputing that. I'm just trying to make sure I understand everyone's thought process.

It's hard to tell sometimes who is *****ing just because they like to ***** and who actually has coherent ideas that they're expressing that get lost amidst the surrounding posts of insanity.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 07:41 PM
Delben, it doesn't work that way. As a General Manager of a professional sports team the only way Kenny gets to have his cake and eat it too is to win the world series.

So No, just because our GM's current plan totally got trounced doesn't mean he gets a free pass to now blow the team up completely.

JB98
12-12-2007, 07:43 PM
So would you have supported him if he had overpayed for Rowand, Fukudome or Hunter and not Linebrink (who IMO fills the largest hole on this team)?

Yep. If you're going for it, then you're going for it. Right now, KW is caught in between. As Hawk says, that's the worst place to be.

delben91
12-12-2007, 07:43 PM
Delben, it doesn't work that way. As a General Manager of a professional sports team the only way Kenny gets to have his cake and eat it too is to win the world series.

So No, just because our GM's current plan totally got trounced doesn't mean he gets a free pass to now blow the team up completely.

Wait a second.

So, the plan to build a contender didn't work out. Now, instead of trading pieces to build for the future, he should stand pat and just let the team play out the season?

MUsoxfan
12-12-2007, 07:47 PM
Yep. If you're going for it, then you're going for it. Right now, KW is caught in between. As Hawk says, that's the worst place to be.


I don't think so. I think KW looked at the widest gaping hole on this team (middle relief) and decided that if he was going to overpay, Linebrink would be the man.

Then there are the smaller gaping holes, and he limited his bidding in shopping around to fill them. I have no problem with him doing that.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 07:48 PM
Wait a second.

So, the plan to build a contender didn't work out. Now, instead of trading pieces to build for the future, he should stand pat and just let the team play out the season?


No, he should do what he gets paid to do and before he trades for a 33 year old short stop and invests a lot of money and years into a good but aging set up man make sure he can COMPLETE the plan and not get stuck half way through. Now we are just in the middle, treading water. Not bad enough to get a high draft pick, not currently good enough to make any real noise.

To just reverse course now would be sickening, and it would be more of a sign of Kenny (OR ANY GM WHO DOES THIS) has no clue then continuing to plow ahead.

Add to the fact Kenny and his group can not scout draft or develop young talent, so if we do go full force rebuilding, get someone who can actually do that. Teams who don't draft or scout young talent well end up like the Royals and Pirates, teams who have been rebuilding for a really long time.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2007, 08:01 PM
Folks, the thread was simple enough, I wanted to take a pulse of how White Sox nation was feeling, instead it has devolved into this...and thanks for changing the poll.

Thomes Forearm
12-12-2007, 08:01 PM
I picture him with a big "Mission Accomplished" Banner behind him at Sox Fest and answering every question with "We need to Stay the course"

...while wearing a White Sox uniform...batting helmet and all.

kobo
12-12-2007, 08:32 PM
No, he should do what he gets paid to do and before he trades for a 33 year old short stop and invests a lot of money and years into a good but aging set up man make sure he can COMPLETE the plan and not get stuck half way through. Now we are just in the middle, treading water. Not bad enough to get a high draft pick, not currently good enough to make any real noise.


Did he not try to complete his plan? Do any of us even know what his plan is/was? He made an offer to Hunter, he was going to sign, and then from all reports LA came in at the last minute and upped the offer and Hunter didn't allow KW to counter. How is this KW's fault? He made an offer for Cabrera, not Willis and Cabrera just Cabrera, and the Tigers come in out of nowhere and up the offer and agree to take Willis. Again, he made an effort, what else could he have done? He signed Linebrink off the bat because RP was arguably the biggest need for this team. And now there are people who say he overpaid for him, but those same people wouldn't have minded if he overpaid for any of the other FA's out there. Makes sense to me!!!

gobears1987
12-12-2007, 08:43 PM
If you really want that, yes I can do it.
Please go ahead. I think the shot from the elephant gun will feel much better than reading this thread.

Thank you.

alohafri
12-12-2007, 09:25 PM
Dark cloud? How about a reality check? What is left out there as far as free agents go? Steff had her baby, she should be back in good enough shape to play left field for us. Who do we have to trade? Crede? Okay, what will we get for a guy coming off of season ending back surgery? Uribe? What will we get for a guy who swings at more pitches in an at bat than some players do in a game? How about one of our starters that might get us a return? That would leave us with Buehrle or Vazquez, old man Contreras, and THREE hope to be's.

You keep drinking your Kool Aid and live in a fantasy world. I sure hope I am wrong, but this team needs to be blown up and filled with guys born in the 80s...the late 80s. Again, I don't mind losing if we truly are rebuilding. What Kenny is doing isn't rebuilding, he isn't retooling. He is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. This is 1968 all over again!

JermaineDye05
12-12-2007, 09:51 PM
Dark cloud? How about a reality check? What is left out there as far as free agents go? Steff had her baby, she should be back in good enough shape to play left field for us. Who do we have to trade? Crede? Okay, what will we get for a guy coming off of season ending back surgery? Uribe? What will we get for a guy who swings at more pitches in an at bat than some players do in a game? How about one of our starters that might get us a return? That would leave us with Buehrle or Vazquez, old man Contreras, and THREE hope to be's.

You keep drinking your Kool Aid and live in a fantasy world. I sure hope I am wrong, but this team needs to be blown up and filled with guys born in the 80s...the late 80s. Again, I don't mind losing if we truly are rebuilding. What Kenny is doing isn't rebuilding, he isn't retooling. He is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. This is 1968 all over again!

How about a reality check for yourself. What was out there on the market to begin with?

I believe Torii Hunter was the best player on the market available.

Kenny took a stab at him and just got outbid.

How many times am I going to have to repeat myself.

People are mad at Kenny for not signing these guys. What in the hell did you all expect him to do? Offer Torii Hunter 20 million a year immediately before the Angels pounced? Not sign Shingo Takatsu or Tadahito Iguchi a couple years before so Fukudome would want to play here? Offer a package he didn't even have for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis? The only thing Kenny could have done this off season is give Aaron Rowand that 5th year, and that's all I can see everyone *****ing about right now. If you're ready to give up on this team because Kenny didn't give Aaron a 5th year then I don't know what he's supposed to do to win you guys over.

PaleHoser
12-12-2007, 10:00 PM
My boss is a Cub fan who greeted me this morning about the news that the Cubs were getting Fukudome and that the radio was actually talking about how it hurt the Sox.

There was a time - and not too long ago - that the fact that the Sox missed out of anyone in the off-season wouldn't have even made the news.

For this, we have K.W. to thank because he *has* truly changed the culture for Sox.

This time last year, I was certain that Buehrle and Dye would both be gone after the 2007 season and he managed to get them both to sign extensions. That was a telltale sign that things have indeed changed, and because of that my expectations have been raised.

I'm not ready to jump into the lake yet, but the fact is that there's nothing to trade and get fair value. Other teams know that we have two 3rd basemen and two shortstops so they don't have to deal. If we manage to move Crede or Uribe it will be for prospects at best.

I'd like to see a few of these big contracts moved to create a more well-rounded team. Otherwise it will get worse before it gets better.

PKalltheway
12-12-2007, 10:04 PM
Any GM who has built a World Champion is not by any means, a bad GM. He knows a lot more about being a GM than any of us here. This offseason has sucked so far, but I still have some confidence in Kenny. Obtaining success is hard enough as it is, maintaining success is even more difficult, especially in baseball. Kenny is doing the best he can, he isn't God or anything.

Chicken Dinner
12-12-2007, 10:10 PM
Inaction is worse than bad action. 2 SS and a 4 year deal with a declining reliever is questionable at best.

Rockabilly
12-12-2007, 10:10 PM
I'm happy that KW re-sign Buehrle, Dye, AJ and Vazquez this past year... I have faith that he will make us a winning ball club this year

Jjav829
12-12-2007, 10:18 PM
If he had said, "we are going to retool the roster and get younger," I would have supported him. Instead, he extended Dye and traded Gar for a 33-year-old shortstop. He also overpayed for Linebrink. He's "going for it," but I think he's putting us in a bigger hole in the process.

Absolutely. Thank you for being one of the people around here who can rationally discuss baseball.

I completely agree with this.

I would have had no problem if Kenny wanted to rebuild. This isn't pre-2005. We won a World Series two years ago. We all experienced it. It's no longer about ending a long World Series drought and going for broke it an attempt to win it all. Kenny's focus should be on being able to field a contending team for the next decade. The way most teams do that is by having a strong farm system; something we don't currently have. I really wouldn't have blamed him at all if he decided that rebuilding was the best idea, given the lack of a quality farm system, the older players in our core, the amount of holes on the team, etc.

It really would have made sense. He could have sold high on Vazquez, coming off a career year, and netted some good prospects. He could have traded Konerko and brought back a couple good prospects. Ditto for Jenks. Would the team be awful next year? Sure, but it's a sacrifice. You sacrifice your chance of contending for the next year or two with the hope that you'll be able to consistently contend for a decade after that.

A few days ago someone brought up how the Indians did this, and it's a good example. The Bartolo Colon trade was really the centerpiece of their rebuilding efforts. They traded him at the right time and in return received Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips. Sizemore's gone on to become one of the better players in the game. Lee has been a solid starter. Phillips didn't work out in Cleveland, but he's become a pretty good player with the Reds.

Now Kenny's stuck. The Linebrink signing isn't one of a rebuilding team. Neither is the Cabrera trade. He's trying to win now, but he doesn't have the pieces to do so and he's failing in his efforts to acquire those pieces.

It's probably too late to turn around and sell off now, but if things aren't going well as we get into June, Kenny should be seriously consider a firesale. There will be a lot of unhappy fans, but it may very well be the best move for the franchise.

MySoxAreClean
12-12-2007, 10:19 PM
:KW
I got a secret weapon

alohafri
12-12-2007, 10:58 PM
If you're ready to give up on this team because Kenny didn't give Aaron a 5th year then I don't know what he's supposed to do to win you guys over.

I think I already told you what he needs to do. 80s babies!

CLSoxFan
12-12-2007, 10:59 PM
It is only December 12, so there's plenty of time for him to try and fill those holes.

It's Dec 12. The Sox are getting old and bad, and at some point we have to go young and bad to get good again. Let's give Kenny a break. He traded the farm to win in 2005 and to try to hold on in '06-07. Let's see if he can rebuild the system. Time will tell.

Nellie_Fox
12-13-2007, 12:59 AM
Folks, the thread was simple enough, I wanted to take a pulse of how White Sox nation was feeling, instead it has devolved into this...and thanks for changing the poll.The White Sox don't have a "nation."

Soxfest
12-13-2007, 01:05 AM
After reading 3/4 of his off season goals have already been meet I have NO faith in him at this point!:angry:

Vernam
12-13-2007, 02:26 AM
I might regret this tomorrow, but it's how I feel tonight, and I chose to let the team know. For my X thousand dollars, I probably have the right to spout off every once in a while. I'd love to be proven wrong, etc., but a man can only take so much.

Dear Brooks et al.:

I've been one of Kenny Williams' staunch supporters, predating the 2005 championship. I still want to hope for the best about the 2008 season, having reinvested in the team as a full season ticket holder despite last year's disaster. As fans, we were given every assurance that Sox management was serious about turning things around rapidly to compete again this year. Just a few weeks ago, I couldn't imagine that the team would further squander the good will built in 2005. But now, on top of several other recent letdowns, the Giants' signing of Aaron Rowand just seems to confirm the worst that Kenny's critics have said. All of a sudden, Jerry Owens is to be considered a legitimate CF? Why? Because every other avenue proved to be a dead end? Sorry, that doesn't make Owens a viable option in center.

It's hard not to feel deceived. Sox fans were phenomenal last season, despite the miserable product on the field. Very rarely were there boos, and I left in September feeling optimistic -- now, it seems, foolishly so -- because our fans had turned a corner and realized that it's just fun being at the ballpark, even if we're not stomping the opposition. But that good feeling was predicated on Sox management making a sincere effort to field the best possible team. After this horrendous off-season, with Detroit and Cleveland only getting stronger as we pursue third-tier Arizona cast-offs, it's obvious Sox management decided they can't do what's needed to stay competitive in the AL Central.

And you know what? That would be okay in terms of rebuilding, except a.) it's the exact opposite of what season ticket holders were sold in October and November, and b.) the Sox show NO legitimate intention of rebuilding. Instead the team is in limbo: We're not competitive, yet there's no plan to restock with young players. For 2008, all we have to look forward to is a bunch of plodding, aging position players and no help from our farm system. You've got our money for 2008, but these decisions seem to doom the Sox for several years to come. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I'll renew my seats for 2009. That's a hell of a thing to say in December 2007.

There are die-hard fans who would fully support a rebuilding effort, in contrast to the annual delusion that happens at Wrigley. But today I'm feeling like a Cub fan, in that we were strung along this off-season just until certain financial benchmarks were met. The team has our money now, and all of a sudden, winning doesn't seem to be such an imperative. That's not what we Sox fans had in mind when we hoped our team could achieve parity with the Cubs.

Vernam

Viva Medias B's
12-13-2007, 08:02 AM
Even though I will not be at SoxFest 2008 (too costly for too little in return, IMO, but that's another thread for another time), the Friday night seminar with KW ought to be interesting...

:bundy

As for me, sure I am disappointed at how this offseason is turning out. However, I'll wait out 2008 and hope for the best.

SoxGirl4Life
12-13-2007, 08:58 AM
Dear Brooks et al.:

That's not what we Sox fans had in mind when we hoped our team could achieve parity with the Cubs.

Vernam

Since we don't directly compete with the Cubs on the field, I don't really care about "achieving parity with the Cubs."

I wasn't delusionally thinking that Chicago was becoming a "Sox town" after 2005. Its never going to be an equal field so why are you complaining about it?

voodoochile
12-13-2007, 10:10 AM
Since we don't directly compete with the Cubs on the field, I don't really care about "achieving parity with the Cubs."

I wasn't delusionally thinking that Chicago was becoming a "Sox town" after 2005. Its never going to be an equal field so why are you complaining about it?

And honestly, what would it take to have parity with the flubbies? I suppose we can give back the trophy and wait until at least 2018 to win one...

Lip Man 1
12-13-2007, 12:50 PM
I'm assuming Vernam's comment meant more along the lines of market share, public support, media coverage, advertising and so forth.

I agree a lot with his 'letter' as well as the comments from Jjav.

If Kenny hadn't made the strong statements that he did a few months ago (i.e. "I'll be damned if we go through that again...") I'd have no trouble with 'rebuilding' given the factors that have put the Sox in the position that they are in.

But he threw down the gauntlet with his comments. Fine....now back them up.

And Jjav while I am inclined now to agree (as stated) with rebuilding..a lot of fans aren't, not two years removed from a World Series title. Openly saying that word could cause a massive drop in attendance which if all accounts are true, would badly hurt the Sox financially. I don't think the organization can just come out and say that as opposed to 'rebuilding' but trying to be more discreet about things.

Lip

spawn
12-13-2007, 12:55 PM
I just want to see where the fan base stands on this...
Yeah, because WSI constitutes 100% of the White Sox fan base...:rolleyes:

ode to veeck
12-13-2007, 12:58 PM
The White Sox don't have a "nation."

thank goodness too

ode to veeck
12-13-2007, 01:05 PM
Since we don't directly compete with the Cubs on the field, I don't really care about "achieving parity with the Cubs."

I wasn't delusionally thinking that Chicago was becoming a "Sox town" after 2005. Its never going to be an equal field so why are you complaining about it?

Sorry, not delusional, but just don't believe in abdicating the city to the Cubs.