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Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 10:30 PM
4 yrs, 52 mil apparently.

Bash away.

aryzner
12-11-2007, 10:32 PM
source?

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 10:32 PM
source?

WGN Radio.

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:33 PM
Having the gooch would have sealed the deal....oops we gave him away....for nothing

JermaineDye05
12-11-2007, 10:34 PM
Hopefully this causes Kenny to give the money and years to Rowand. Since that's all he can really do now.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 10:35 PM
Having the gooch would have sealed the deal....oops we gave him away....for nothing

He wasn't worth much.

Viva Medias B's
12-11-2007, 10:35 PM
If you were KW, would you have dropped $52M on Fukudome? I would not have.

CLR01
12-11-2007, 10:36 PM
Hopefully this causes Kenny to give the money and years to Rowand. Since that's all he can really do now.

He better do it quick before Rowand finds out he was option 5b.

JB98
12-11-2007, 10:36 PM
If you were KW, would you have dropped $52M on Fukudome? I would not have.

Me neither. I wouldn't have given four years either. Of course, I wouldn't have given Linebrink four years....

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 10:37 PM
If you were KW, would you have dropped $52M on Fukudome? I would not have.

I would have dropped $60 million just to placate the WSI masses.

Viva Medias B's
12-11-2007, 10:37 PM
I would have dropped $60 million just to placate the WSI masses.

POTW

JermaineDye05
12-11-2007, 10:37 PM
If you were KW, would you have dropped $52M on Fukudome? I would not have.

Neither would I. For the chance that he could end up like a Kaz Matsui. Yeah he could turn out to be a Hideki Matsui or Ichiro, but that's why you buy low and then lock him up later. The risk is too great if he's a flop.

DeuceUnit
12-11-2007, 10:38 PM
We should just do nothing. Everybody is too damn expensive. Let's just start our Charlotte line up. :angry:

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:38 PM
He wasn't worth much.

he was if you planned on signing fukudome, but Kennys not a planner is he.

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:40 PM
....."Kuroda has cancelled his U.S. trip and will choose between the Dodgers and Mariners. The presence of Takashi Saito may be a big point in the Dodgers' favor"

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 10:41 PM
he was if you planned on signing fukudome, but Kennys not a planner is he.

:KW:

"I better keep Iguchi and leave Richar in the dust in case I can't sign Hunter or Jones or Rowand or Cabrerra or so on and so forth"

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Nikkan Sports of Japan says that it is 4/60, with a number of other incentives.

getonbckthr
12-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Hopefully this causes Kenny to give the money and years to Rowand. Since that's all he can really do now.
This would be the worst decision this offseason. There's a reason he hasn't been signed yet, he isn't worth the damn contract. He is barely worth half of it.

DrCrawdad
12-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Did you notice an odd, foul odor in the air? It's from Cubbie fans who've soiled themselves on the momentous signing of FukUdome.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Nikkan Sports of Japan says that it is 4/60, with a number of other incentives.

Wow, if he doesn't pan out they are so screwed.

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:44 PM
This would be the worst decision this offseason. There's a reason he hasn't been signed yet, he isn't worth the damn contract. He is barely worth half of it.

agreed!! go watch the 2005 postseason dvds again....Rowand weak grounder to short..... over and over and over

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 10:45 PM
If you were KW, would you have dropped $52M on Fukudome? I would not have.

In this market? Yes.


Sigh. This is frustrating.

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Wow, if he doesn't pan out they are so screwed.


How so?

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 10:46 PM
In this market? Yes.


Sigh. This is frustrating.

I would drop $52 million on Rowand before I drop $52 million on Fukudome.

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 10:47 PM
This would be the worst decision this offseason. There's a reason he hasn't been signed yet, he isn't worth the damn contract. He is barely worth half of it.

Rowand may not be worth it, but if Jerry Owens opens in CF then the Sox are resigning themselves to 75 wins or so.

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 10:47 PM
I would drop $52 million on Rowand before I drop $52 million on Fukudome.

Both of them were going to get more than that. 52 million doesn't go as far as it used to.

getonbckthr
12-11-2007, 10:47 PM
In this market? Yes.


Sigh. This is frustrating.
Frustrating cause we didn't get a guy we never had a chance at? The Cubs were gonna pay whatever it took to get him.

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:47 PM
Rowand may not be worth it, but if Jerry Owens opens in CF then the Sox are resigning themselves to 75 wins or so.

why

JB98
12-11-2007, 10:48 PM
Rowand may not be worth it, but if Jerry Owens opens in CF then the Sox are resigning themselves to 75 wins or so.

A more likely scenario involves Crede being traded to the Dodgers for Pierre. Or KW will sign Corey Patterson. (gulp)

champagne030
12-11-2007, 10:48 PM
This would be the worst decision this offseason. There's a reason he hasn't been signed yet, he isn't worth the damn contract. He is barely worth half of it.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Please stop the hyperbole.

That said, I'd really think hard about signing anyone unless we're going to trade for our holes.

soxfan1983
12-11-2007, 10:48 PM
source?

fox news just confirmed it too

DeuceUnit
12-11-2007, 10:48 PM
I would drop $52 million on Rowand before I drop $52 million on Fukudome.

Rowand won't be coming for 4 years 52 million.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 10:48 PM
Both of them were going to get more than that. 52 million doesn't go as far as it used to.

:?:

"were" going to get? Huh?

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 10:48 PM
How so?

They're guaranteeing him 15 million, if he's a bust they're throwing away tons of money.

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:49 PM
They're guaranteeing him 15 million, if he's a bust they're throwing away tons of money.

they dont care, they print money there....and they are selling the team

AJ Hellraiser
12-11-2007, 10:49 PM
An awful lot of money for a guy that's never played here... good riddance to him and the Flubs...

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 10:50 PM
why

Owens is a 4th OF. He should not be a starter on a team that expects to compete. Rowand is not worth 5/70 or whatever it is that he wants, but he is a huge upgrade over Owens. If the Sox want to compete in 2008, Owens should be in Charlotte.

gogosox16
12-11-2007, 10:50 PM
Wow, if he doesn't pan out they are so screwed.
That sounds exactly like what happened with them and Jauque Jones and they end up trading him away for a utility player.....money well spent


im still waiting for a link

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 10:50 PM
:?:

"were" going to get? Huh?

"Were" as in, we knew a long time ago they were going to get more than 50 million this market.

Would it be better for you if I said, "Everybody knew that their contracts were going to reach a considerable amount of money, probably more than the Sox said they were going to give because hey, the market is going to correct itself."

Gammons Peter
12-11-2007, 10:51 PM
Owens is a 4th OF. He should not be a starter on a team that expects to compete. Rowand is not worth 5/70 or whatever it is that he wants, but he is a huge upgrade over Owens. If the Sox want to compete in 2008, Owens should be in Charlotte.

you must be involved in professional baseball, you really know your stuff

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 10:51 PM
im still waiting for a link

Yeah, WGN and Fox News aren't good enough. :rolleyes:

Viva Medias B's
12-11-2007, 10:54 PM
I wonder if TribCo did this just to increase the value of the franchise for its impending sale.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 10:55 PM
"Were" as in, we knew a long time ago they were going to get more than 50 million this market.

Would it be better for you if I said, "Everybody knew that their contracts were going to reach a considerable amount of money, probably more than the Sox said they were going to give because hey, the market is going to correct itself."

You said $52 million. If the deal is 4/$52 million, than Fukudome didn't get more. But hey, anything to trash KW...

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 10:58 PM
You said $52 million. If the deal is 4/$52 million, than Fukudome didn't get more. But hey, anything to trash KW...


Oh Jesus, I'm sorry I threw in the word "more" and he got EXACTLY 52 million (which, according to reports he may have gotten more than 52 anyway). And where have I ever bashed KW?

This has nothing to do with hoping KW gets canned, or the Sox sign so and so to X amount of dollars. I don't care who the Sox sign or who is doing the signing...I just want my ****ing Sox to win.

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:00 PM
You said $52 million. If the deal is 4/$52 million, than Fukudome didn't get more. But hey, anything to trash KW...

Gordon Wittenmyer reports the deal is worth $45-50 million.

Take that FWIW.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:00 PM
I have no idea how much it is anymore, I've heard 3 different $$ amounts.

BadBobbyJenks
12-11-2007, 11:02 PM
That sounds exactly like what happened with them and Jauque Jones and they end up trading him away for a utility player.....money well spent


im still waiting for a link


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151060



and then there was one, welcome home crash!

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:02 PM
Still a good deal for him. This guy has skills that I think will translate well to the major league level, unfortunate we couldn't snag him up.

Viva Medias B's
12-11-2007, 11:02 PM
Fukudome is coming off season-ending surgery, did Comcast SportsNet just say?

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151060



and then there was one, welcome home crash!

The Giants are hot after Rowand, I wouldn't put it past them to offer a big contract.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 11:03 PM
Oh Jesus, I'm sorry I threw in the word "more" and he got EXACTLY 52 million (which, according to reports he may have gotten more than 52 anyway). And where have I ever bashed KW?

This has nothing to do with hoping KW gets canned, or the Sox sign so and so to X amount of dollars. I don't care who the Sox sign or who is doing the signing...I just want my ****ing Sox to win.

When did we "know" Fukudome would be getting more than $50 million? Rowand has always had some high numbers attached to his supposed contract but until this Cubs offer came along, the most I had heard was $40 million.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:04 PM
Fukudome is coming off season-ending surgery, did Comcast SportsNet just say?

Ya, he had surgery on his right shoulder.

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:04 PM
Fukudome is coming off season-ending surgery, did Comcast SportsNet just say?

Yes, he's coming off surgery, either elbow or shoulder. I can't remember which.

Viva Medias B's
12-11-2007, 11:05 PM
Ya, he had surgery on his right shoulder.

If the Cubs' training staff handles his injured shoulder the same way they handled Prior and Wood's injuries...

KRS1
12-11-2007, 11:05 PM
Ya, he had surgery on his right shoulder.

It was his throwing elbow. He had bone spurs removed from it.

BadBobbyJenks
12-11-2007, 11:06 PM
The Giants are hot after Rowand, I wouldn't put it past them to offer a big contract.


you think he would choose that cest pool over coming back to chicago????

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 11:08 PM
you think he would choose that cest pool over coming back to chicago????

If they offered more years and more money, then yes.

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:08 PM
you think he would choose that cest pool over coming back to chicago????

It's all about money. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:08 PM
you think he would choose that cest pool over coming back to chicago????

Considering he's on record saying he wants the most money possible, then yes.

kittle42
12-11-2007, 11:09 PM
I really wonder why I renewed my tickets sometimes.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 11:09 PM
It's all about money. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

:farmer

"Even when they say it isn't about the money, its about St. Rita."

the1tab
12-11-2007, 11:09 PM
you think he would choose that cest pool over coming back to chicago????

I'll give Aaron the common sense points for having played here... but has anyone else chosen to play for us yet this winter?????

Kenny's starting to look like he's swinging at free agents like Uribe swings at breaking balls...

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:10 PM
Is this offical or just another radio report? I see nothing on Cubs.com (I'm now off to run full security measures and viral scans of my computer.)

I mean, if WGN reports it; its not like they'd be biased.

Slats
12-11-2007, 11:10 PM
Forget Fukudome. Attention Kenny - Go Get Josh Hamilton

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Is this offical or just another radio report? I see nothing on Cubs.com (I'm now off to run full security measures and viral scans of my computer.)

I mean, if WGN reports it; its not like they'd be biased.


Other media outlets are reporting it as well.

Fukudome is a Cub, like it or not.

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Is this offical or just another radio report? I see nothing on Cubs.com (I'm now off to run full security measures and viral scans of my computer.)

I mean, if WGN reports it; its not like they'd be biased.


It seems to be official, as multiple sources are reporting it. The amount is not known, however. I have seen 4/50, 4/52, and 4/60.

BadBobbyJenks
12-11-2007, 11:12 PM
If they offered more years and more money, then yes.

It's all about money. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

Considering he's on record saying he wants the most money possible, then yes.


Would any of you care to make a wager?
Without cheating name half of that starting lineup.

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 11:13 PM
Forget Fukudome. Attention Kenny - Go Get Josh Hamilton

If the Cincinnati media is to be believed, Hamilton will be an Oriole soon.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 11:14 PM
Would any of you care to make a wager?
Without cheating name half of that starting lineup.

Who cares? You think Zito signed with the Giants simply because they were in the Bay area and "looked to be making a run"?

...
12-11-2007, 11:14 PM
Rowand may not be worth it, but if Jerry Owens opens in CF then the Sox are resigning themselves to 75 wins or so.

And signing Rowand will amount to the 25 more wins needed to make the playoffs?? I'm so sick of hearing the "If we have _________ in __________ position we'll only win 70 games" argument. It is insanely stupid to think one position player will net you 25 more victories...

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:14 PM
Other media outlets are reporting it as well.

Fukudome is a Cub, like it or not.

Oh I totally like them dropping that kind of bank on a player who's numbers compared to Iguchi's.

In Japan.

If they expect him to hit like that here? Good luck on that one. A player like Ichiro comes along few and far between.

And ESPN is reporting it now. So, as long as it isn't "reportedly" via a radio, I tend to believe it just a bit more. Radio reporting had this site up in arms for a few weeks this past summer with how close Mark was to being traded, then signed, then traded, then signed, ad nauseum.

BadBobbyJenks
12-11-2007, 11:15 PM
Who cares? You think Zito signed with the Giants simply because they were in the Bay area and "looked to be making a run"?

what does zito have to do with this

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 11:15 PM
And signing Rowand will amount to the 25 more wins needed to make the playoffs?? I'm so sick of hearing the "If we have _________ in __________ position we'll only win 70 games" argument. It is insanely stupid to think one position player will net you 25 more victories...

When did I say that Rowand will net 25 wins? I said it helps the Sox compete. Even with Rowand, I still don't see the Sox making the playoffs. But it certainly puts them in a better position.

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:16 PM
Would any of you care to make a wager?
Without cheating name half of that starting lineup.

As INR said, who cares? For every Mark Buehrle who accepts a hometown discount, there are 50 others who take the money.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:16 PM
Oh I totally like them dropping that kind of bank on a player who's numbers compared to Iguchi's.

In Japan.

If they expect him to hit like that here? Good luck on that one. A player like Ichiro comes along few and far between.

And ESPN is reporting it now. So, as long as it isn't "reportedly" via a radio, I tend to believe it just a bit more. Radio reporting had this site up in arms for a few weeks this past summer with how close Mark was to being traded, then signed, then traded, then signed, ad nauseum.

They signed him for his OBP.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 11:16 PM
what does zito have to do with this

Zito is the guy who would pick up Rowand at the airport.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:17 PM
When did I say that Rowand will net 25 wins? I said it helps the Sox compete. Even with Rowand, I still don't see the Sox making the playoffs. But it certainly puts them in a better position.

Don't say that the Sox are competing with anyone. Especially the Tigers. If you say that the Sox or the Tigers are now more competitive with each other; some of the Sox fans might have heart attacks and want to lynch Kenny Williams.

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:17 PM
Oh I totally like them dropping that kind of bank on a player who's numbers compared to Iguchi's.

In Japan.

If they expect him to hit like that here? Good luck on that one. A player like Ichiro comes along few and far between.

And ESPN is reporting it now. So, as long as it isn't "reportedly" via a radio, I tend to believe it just a bit more. Radio reporting had this site up in arms for a few weeks this past summer with how close Mark was to being traded, then signed, then traded, then signed, ad nauseum.

Fukudome career:

.305/.397/.543

Iguchi in Japan:

.271/.349/.471

Yeah... almost identical.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:18 PM
They signed him for his OBP.

Which is again a stat.


From Japan.


Where the game isn't played at the same pace and strategies shown here in the States.

He might be the next best thing to happen to the Cubs since Ernie Banks. His Japanese stats are just a starting point. He might be an average to slightly above average OBP player.

BadBobbyJenks
12-11-2007, 11:20 PM
Zito is the guy who would pick up Rowand at the airport.


well there is no use arguing about it. I believe rowand will take a bit of a discount to come back.

rowand33
12-11-2007, 11:21 PM
sigh...

is it sad that I now hope we end up with Juan Pierre?

Fantosme
12-11-2007, 11:21 PM
Don't say that the Sox are competing with anyone. Especially the Tigers. If you say that the Sox or the Tigers are now more competitive with each other; some of the Sox fans might have heart attacks and want to lynch Kenny Williams.

The point is, Jerry Owens is not very good. .267/.328/.315 is pathetic. If the Sox want to make the playoffs, they cannot have players like Jerry Owens in the starting lineup.

pmck003
12-11-2007, 11:21 PM
At least his new nickname is cemented.

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:22 PM
well there is no use arguing about it. I believe rowand will take a bit of a discount to come back.

If that were the case, I believe he would have already signed.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:22 PM
The point is, Jerry Owens is not very good. .267/.328/.315 is pathetic. If the Sox want to make the playoffs, they cannot have players like Jerry Owens in the starting lineup.

Oh I'll give you that. But that word. Competitive. Just don't say it. It leads to folks hating Kenny Williams.

itsnotrequired
12-11-2007, 11:22 PM
well there is no use arguing about it. I believe rowand will take a bit of a discount to come back.

We can always hope but seeing as how he is the biggest CF free agent out there right now, I wouldn't count on it...

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:23 PM
sigh...

is it sad that I now hope we end up with Juan Pierre?

Yet you're named rowand33? That's sad man. We need to keep hoping for the return of Aaron "I never met a wall I haven't crashed into" Rowand.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:24 PM
Ohmigawd!

The Sox Screwed Us Again!!!

That's It... I Quit! I Want My Money Back!!!

I Want My Money For Last Year And The Year Before Back Too!!!

I Swear, If The Sox Don't Sign Someone Soon, I'm Gonna Drive Down To The Cell And Pop A Cap In Someone's Ass Then I'm Gonna Climb To The Top Of The Sears Tower And Start Popping Caps In Other Peoples' Asses And Finally I'm Gonna Pop A Cap In My Own Ass!!!

**** You Kenny!!!

**** You Jr!!!

The Flubbies Signed Fukudome And Now I Am A Flubbie Fan!!!

They Won A Ws More Recently Anyway!!!

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:25 PM
Fukudome career:

.305/.397/.543

Iguchi in Japan:

.271/.349/.471

Yeah... almost identical.

What were their power numbers? I stand corrected on the batting averages, but if we follow the trend, Fuku will fall to about .280/.350/.500 which are still good. I don't know if they are 60 million good; but besides Ichiro, most Japanese players have faltered and fell from their numbers there to their transitions here.

WhiteSox5187
12-11-2007, 11:27 PM
Again, we have the divide of "Thank God we didn't over pay for him!" and the "Kenny is a moron." I tend to lean towards the latter, but in reality it's somewhere in between.

4/52 is the norm now. That is the market. And if the White Sox want to compete with free agents they have to accept that. Is it over paying? No, because if we don't offer it, another team will. And they will be stuck "over paying" as their team potentially goes to the playoffs (I'm refering to the Angels more than the Cubs here) and we pay the "correct" price for a guy and wind up losing 90 games. Hoist up that fiscal responsibility banner!

The fact of the matter is Kenny NEEDS to upgrade in Center if he is sincere about wanting to compete in '08 and having been spurned by Hunter and now Fukodome that leaves us with Rowand and we're going to have to "over pay" him now because 1) the market is now dictating a guy like Rowand gets a Konerko like deal and 2) he's the last viable option in the FA market right now.

The clock is ticking here Kenny. Another 90 loss season really should result in his dismissal. There's nothing down on the farm to look forward to either. This has really been just an awful awful off season so far.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
What were their power numbers? I stand corrected on the batting averages, but if we follow the trend, Fuku will fall to about .280/.350/.500 which are still good. I don't know if they are 60 million good; but besides Ichiro, most Japanese players have faltered and fell from their numbers there to their transitions here.

Yeah, it would suck to have a CF put up numbers like that...

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Yeah, it would suck to have a CF put up numbers like that...

But can he hit leadoff?

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
If Boston comes down from their ludicrous demand of a top prospect or two for Crisp, he'd still be an option.

I can't believe I just typed that.

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
What were their power numbers? I stand corrected on the batting averages, but if we follow the trend, Fuku will fall to about .280/.350/.500 which are still good. I don't know if they are 60 million good; but besides Ichiro, most Japanese players have faltered and fell from their numbers there to their transitions here.

Power numbers were relatively similar, Fukudome averaged about 28, while Iguchi came in at about 27. So likely you'll see the top off there, but Fukudome was signed for his OBP and his arm.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
is it sad that I now hope we end up with Juan Pierre?

Sad? YES. Pierre vs. Owens is like Grossman/Gresie vs. Orton - there is just no winner there.

Pierre is no upgrade to what we have.

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
4/52 is the norm now. That is the market.

That is not the norm for unproven MLB talent. Sure, guys that are proven are raking in the dough, but this guy hasn't played a game.

People will go nuts, but I felt all along that the Sox were not going to get in serious discussions with the guy. If they were, we would have heard more reports about the Sox. When the Padres (who don't pay anyone) were talked about more than the Sox, you have to think that the Sox were not really that interested.

But I guess we'll just add this one to the list of 'the ones that got away.' :rolleyes:

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:29 PM
LOL. What a great off-season thus far.

If they end up trading for Roberts, they have themselves some lineup. Mark Derosa would be coming off the bench.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:30 PM
Sad? YES. Pierre vs. Owens is like Grossman/Gresie vs. Orton - there is just no winner there.

Pierre is no upgrade to what we have.

I will insist though as a Sox fan that if we do get Juan Pierre that he must finally have a uniform fitted properly to him. He looks like a pre-teen in his Dad's uniform.

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:30 PM
I will insist though as a Sox fan that if we do get Juan Pierre that he must finally have a uniform fitted properly to him. He looks like a pre-teen in his Dad's uniform.

All he needs is the ridiculously over-sized hat and the ice cream in the batting helmet.

ND_Sox_Fan
12-11-2007, 11:31 PM
I will insist though as a Sox fan that if we do get Juan Pierre that he must finally have a uniform fitted properly to him. He looks like a pre-teen in his Dad's uniform.

Are you also going to insist that he have an arm transplant so that he can throw a ball more than 90 feet?

WhiteSox5187
12-11-2007, 11:32 PM
That is not the norm for unproven MLB talent. Sure, guys that are proven in are raking in the dough, but this guy hasn't played a game.
He's not a raw kid out of high school either. The guy played MLB caliber talent in the WBC and did fine. He's played against professionals in Japan and done quite well. The market is saying that that is now the norm for a star player from Japan. The next big guy in Japan is going to be looking for a deal similiar to this one, and if the Sox want to get that guy they have to make an offer similiar to this one...it sucks but that's the way it goes.

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:32 PM
Are you also going to insist that he have an arm transplant so that he can throw a ball more than 90 feet?

He makes Jerry Owens look like Vlad.

Hafner could tag up from 2nd to home on a Pierre toss.

Tragg
12-11-2007, 11:33 PM
$13 per was reasonable. The 4 years was a little much.

$52 on him is a more judicious use of funds than signing Rowand, imo. Rowand's only an average CF defensively, he's not a Lead off hitter, and his O is deficient for LF, his real position. He's not what the Sox need. And the Sox knew that 2 years ago. And Pierre isn't what we need either - bad arm, bad obp. And Crisp? His numbers are no better than Jerry Owens. You can't trade anything but an organizatoinal minor leaguer for Crisp..

Not a lot of options left. That's okay, put a great defensive team out there and work on that young pitching.

BadBobbyJenks
12-11-2007, 11:33 PM
If that were the case, I believe he would have already signed.

except we went after hunter...and I suppose I overstated it if its a choice between the giants or some other team going no where and us, I think he gives us a break

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:34 PM
That is not the norm for unproven MLB talent. Sure, guys that are proven are raking in the dough, but this guy hasn't played a game.

People will go nuts, but I felt all along that the Sox were not going to get in serious discussions with the guy. If they were, we would have heard more reports about the Sox. When the Padres (who don't pay anyone) were talked about more than the Sox, you have to think that the Sox were not really that interested.

But I guess we'll just add this one to the list of 'the ones that got away.' :rolleyes:

Ditto, I'm really not upset about this at all, this isn't Miguel Cabrera, this is an unproven commodity that hit well in a league that is comparable to AAA baseball coming off of right elbow surgery.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:34 PM
LOL. What a great off-season thus far.

If they end up trading for Roberts, they have themselves some lineup. Mark Derosa would be coming off the bench.

Hey, I covered all of this and really nothing else needs to be said...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1745450&postcount=88

Closed...

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:34 PM
The guy is a stud. Huge arm, near .400 OBP, hits for power. Nothing NOT to like about him.

When they are comparing you as a combo of Matsui and Inchiro, you know you're a stud.

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:34 PM
The market is saying that that is now the norm for a star player from Japan.

When did the market say this? When the Cubs decided to overpay? :?:

The next big guy in Japan is going to be looking for a deal similiar to this one, and if the Sox want to get that guy they have to make an offer similiar to this one...it sucks but that's the way it goes.

We'll see how Fukodome does, first. If he succeeds, then the bar is set. If he fails (or is not worth the money he's getting), then no, the next guy from Japan won't get as much.

champagne030
12-11-2007, 11:36 PM
Iwamura was the best analogy that Trey Hillman, who managed in Japan and is now the new manager of the Royals, could compare to Fukudome. $7.7M/3 or $50/4??? Save the cash for the draft, development, foreign signings and move along. I believe Jerry Owens sucks, but to risk 12-15M each season over the next four, pass...........

CubsfansareDRUNK
12-11-2007, 11:37 PM
Official on mlb.com now....

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:37 PM
The guy is a stud. Huge arm, near .400 OBP, hits for power. Nothing NOT to like about him.

If only stats from Japan translated to the MLB, then all would be great, and I wouldn't mind the Sox paying him. The thing is, stats don't translate here. Look for his power numbers to be in the teens.

I'll put money on the table right now that Fukodome will not be a power hitter here.

Brian26
12-11-2007, 11:38 PM
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/426/popcornbo0.gif

WhiteSox5187
12-11-2007, 11:39 PM
When did the market say this? When the Cubs decided to overpay? :?:



We'll see how Fukodome does, first. If he succeeds, then the bar is set. If he fails (or is not worth the money he's getting), then no, the next guy from Japan won't get as much.
Fukodome is going to have to fail miserably in order to bring down the market price...as I said earlier this guy has faced MLB level talent in the WBC and certainly wasn't over matched or anything. When scouts are saying "This guy is a cross between Ichiro and Matusi," and seeing the impact they had RIGHT away, yea, there's going to be a lot of money thrown around. 13 mil a year for a guy like Ichiro IS the market. Like I said, it's not like this is some guy whose 18 who has dominated HS level pitching.

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:40 PM
If only stats from Japan translated to the MLB, then all would be great, and I wouldn't mind the Sox paying him. The thing is, stats don't translate here. Look for his power numbers to be in the teens.

I'll put money on the table right now that Fukodome will not be a power hitter here.

I don't think the North siders really care if he dips and hits about 18-20 homers. He does EVERYTHING else exceptionally well.

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:41 PM
Fukodome is going to have to fail miserably in order to bring down the market price...as I said earlier this guy has faced MLB level talent in the WBC and certainly wasn't over matched or anything. When scouts are saying "This guy is a cross between Ichiro and Matusi," and seeing the impact they had RIGHT away, yea, there's going to be a lot of money thrown around. 13 mil a year for a guy like Ichiro IS the market. Like I said, it's not like this is some guy whose 18 who has dominated HS level pitching.

Who cares what he did in the WBC? Dice-K was pretty damn good in the WBC, too.

When MLB teams start scouting him, and pitching to his weaknesses, then we'll make a judgment. The WBC is not a good indicator of talent translating to the MLB, so you can give that argument up.

And I think what the scouts mean by a cross between Ichiro and Matsui, is that he does a couple of things well, but does nothing great. He's not a big power hitter (like Matsui was), he doesn't hit for unbelievable averages (like Ichiro did), and he's not real quick (although he's not slow like Matsui, he's not as quick as Ichiro). So what you have is a poor man's Ichiro (+ a little more power), for about $5 million less...what a deal!

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:42 PM
Who cares what he did in the WBC? Dice-K was pretty damn good in the WBC, too.

When MLB teams start scouting him, and pitching to his weaknesses, then we'll make a judgment. The WBC is not a good indicator of talent translating to the MLB, so you can give that argument up.

Considering that was spring training to most pitchers....

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:42 PM
Who cares what he did in the WBC? Dice-K was pretty damn good in the WBC, too.

When MLB teams start scouting him, and pitching to his weaknesses, then we'll make a judgment. The WBC is not a good indicator of talent translating to the MLB, so you can give that argument up.

How many Japanese players have fallen on their face outside of Shinjo?

Seriously... you're talking like the majority have been disasters.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:42 PM
Are you also going to insist that he have an arm transplant so that he can throw a ball more than 90 feet?

No, I'm going to have Roger install two t-shirt shooters to mortar the ball back into the infield; one deep and one shallow. Pierre just needs to get to them quickly.

:D:

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:42 PM
I don't think the North siders really care if he dips and hits about 18-20 homers. He does EVERYTHING else exceptionally well.

Ah so you're one of those folks who think they actually care about winning and not just marketing...

Brian26
12-11-2007, 11:43 PM
If only stats from Japan translated to the MLB, then all would be great, and I wouldn't mind the Sox paying him. The thing is, stats don't translate here. Look for his power numbers to be in the teens.

I'll put money on the table right now that Fukodome will not be a power hitter here.

I think he's going to do well here. I've seen limited video of him on the news, but he looks solid.

Bottom line is that we can't compete in a bidding war against the Cubs. They got their man, so tip your cap and move on.

Kenny doesn't deserve to be crucified for this signing. Kenny's big time mistake this winter was with the Marlins. Cabrera and Willis would have been a perfect fit for us, and he should have made that happen. Now he's got his work cut out for him. It should be fun to watch.

champagne030
12-11-2007, 11:43 PM
Fukodome is going to have to fail miserably in order to bring down the market price...as I said earlier this guy has faced MLB level talent in the WBC and certainly wasn't over matched or anything. .

It's a tiny sample, but he was benched because he couldn't hit **** in the WBC. I think he's an excellent role player, much like Iguchi was, but $13M?? I'll pass on that for now........

btrain929
12-11-2007, 11:43 PM
If only stats from Japan translated to the MLB, then all would be great, and I wouldn't mind the Sox paying him. The thing is, stats don't translate here. Look for his power numbers to be in the teens.

I'll put money on the table right now that Fukodome will not be a power hitter here.

Power = probably won't transfer over as much.

Cannon for an arm, OBP, good speed = absolutely will transfer over.

I really did want him for the Sox cuz I felt he did bring a lot to the table and would add a lot of things to our team that we don't have. Now this will sound really bad, but since we didn't sign him, I would not mind if he has injury problems on his surgically repaired arm and/or struggles heavily while with the Cubs. Sorry, I'm just a prick like that when it comes to my White Sox :D:, like it or not.

Well, at least we still have some money to spend on our bullpen and a CF......................right???

rdivaldi
12-11-2007, 11:43 PM
I think it's a dumb signing for that amount of money. Japanese numbers do not translate to MLB. Gooch's numbers over his last two years were awesome:
.340/.438/1.011
.333/.393/.942
Pretty much on par with Fukudome's.

I'd much rather have Rowand...

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:43 PM
Who cares what he did in the WBC? Dice-K was pretty damn good in the WBC, too.

When MLB teams start scouting him, and pitching to his weaknesses, then we'll make a judgment. The WBC is not a good indicator of talent translating to the MLB, so you can give that argument up.

And if Kenny signed him, you would be posting about 20 dancing bananas claiming what a great signing this is.

The above post would not at all be a possibility with you if Kenny snagged him.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:44 PM
I think he's going to do well here. I've seen limited video of him on the news, but he looks solid.

Bottom line is that we can't compete in a bidding war against the Cubs. They got their man, so tip your cap and move on.

Kenny doesn't deserve to be crucified for this signing. Kenny's big time mistake this winter was with the Marlins. Cabrera and Willis would have been a perfect fit for us, and he should have made that happen. Now he's got his work cut out for him. It should be fun to watch.

I wouldn't even beat Kenny too hard on the Cabrera/Willis deal, as we don't know what they might of wanted from the Sox for them.

DeadMoney
12-11-2007, 11:46 PM
I'm not so much frustrated that we didn't get this specific guy, but it's frustrating to see so many teams fill needs, while Kenny keeps playing his 'just wait' game.

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:47 PM
Ah so you're one of those folks who think they actually care about winning and not just marketing...

Yes, Lou cares about winning. You bet your ass he does. This will only ADD to their marketing but Piniella has changed the culture over there. That I believe.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:47 PM
On a side note, does anyone else think Fukudome's surname is how he feels about playing baseball indoors?

:wink:

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:47 PM
How many Japanese players have fallen on their face outside of Shinjo?

Seriously... you're talking like the majority have been disasters.

What the hell are you talking about? :?:

IceczMan
12-11-2007, 11:48 PM
I wonder how the Kenny/Dye cell phone call is going to go after this.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:48 PM
Yes, Lou cares about winning. You bet your ass he does. This will only ADD to their marketing but Piniella has changed the culture over there. That I believe.

LOL... as Dusty did before him...:rolleyes:

the1tab
12-11-2007, 11:49 PM
We can rag on the Cubs for signing this guy, and hate on his stats not translating from Japan to America, and find a way to spin this so the Cubs overpaid a guy with nice numbers and a cannon arm to play RF...

But it is one more player that didn't sign w/ the Sox.

And to those that say "save the money to develop talent and the draft"... There have been threads on here since November about how we "can't develop talent" and how the trade value of Sox prospects is falling because guys like Reed and Olivo end up being garbage when the leave... and we somehow get outbid for guys like Cabrera, allowing him to come to our division rival in Detroit.

Do we have free agency herpes? Did Kenny double dip a frito at the GM meetings? What's the deal? Is ANYONE going to be new to the White Sox other than Scott friggin Linebrink?

I'm not bitter about Fukudome, or Andruw Jones, or Torii Hunter, or Miguel Cabrera individually... but collectively, I'm wondering out loud what the deal is.

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:49 PM
And if Kenny signed him, you would be posting about 20 dancing banana's claiming what a great signing this is.

The above post would not at all be a possibility with you if Kenny snagged him.

I was posting the same **** three days ago. Go back and check.

I never said he was going to fail (although he will not put up numbers like he did in Japan). OTOH, that's too much money.

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:50 PM
What the hell are you talking about? :?:

I'm trying to figure out the same question.

You're talking about how Japanese stats never translated to the MLB, no kidding but it's not as if these guys haven't made successful transitions in the past.

Please, list for me the Japanese players you believe have absolutely fallen on their faces and have not been successful in the MLB or have not lived up to the "hype".

I have a feeling your list will contain two names: Shinjo, So Taguchi. Both of whom came in with no-hype.

Otherwise you have guys who I'd say have had pretty solid MLB careers: Iguchi, Ichiro, Matsui, Saito, Hasagawa, Suzuki, Iwaurara, Dice-K have all had GOOD MLB careers.

Of course Fukudome won't hit 35 homers, but he'll still be a solid contributor. Plate discipline translates and that's something he does quite well. Defense translates, something he does quite well. Throwing arm translates, something he has.

If Jose Guillen is worth $12, Fukudome isn't worth 13 mil? Please.

WhiteSox5187
12-11-2007, 11:50 PM
What the hell are you talking about? :?:
I think he's suggesting that historically Japanese position players have done quite well in their first year in the MLB. The one guy that I can think of who didn't really live up to expectations was Kaz Matusi, but Hideki, Tadahito, those guys have all done quite well.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:50 PM
Yes, Lou cares about winning. You bet your ass he does. This will only ADD to their marketing but Piniella has changed the culture over there. That I believe.

I have to second this. IF (and its a big IF, since this IS the Cubs we're talking about) but if any manager has a shot at getting the Cubs to the World Series, I have to say its Pinella. He definately changed the culture for at least how folks even consider the Cubs. I think that with the right pieces in place, Pinella can get them to win.

Now granted, this is a team that YET AGAIN signed Kerry Wood, and still considers potential for Mark Prior; so my verdict is still out if the organization would get Pinella all the right pieces needed.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:51 PM
I wonder how the Kenny/Dye cell phone call is going to go after this.

Teal?

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:51 PM
LOL... as Dusty did before him...:rolleyes:

Are you saying Piniella doesn't like to win? :?:

rdivaldi
12-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Piniella has changed the culture over there. That I believe.

:?:

As long as there are bars all around the Urinal and trixies chasing the players the culture will never change.

Sockinchisox
12-11-2007, 11:52 PM
I'm not so sure I should post this but here.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071211cubs,1,1236143.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

The Cubs felt like they were in good position to outbid the Padres, who do not have a history of paying for the big-name free agents. The White Sox could have matched the Cubs, but general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with his crosstown rivals, focusing instead on former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.

rdivaldi
12-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Are you saying Piniella doesn't like to win? :?:

Are you saying that there is a major league manager out there that doesn't?

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Cannon for an arm, OBP, good speed = absolutely will transfer over.

The arm and the speed will, sure. Those are his God given talents.

OTOH, his OBP will not. Hideki Matsui was a HUGE OBP guy in Japan (more so than Fukodome), and is closer to the average here. Go look at the history of these Japanese hitters...their stats do not translate close at all. Ichiro has been close to an exception, but Fukodome never put up Ichiro-like numbers.

WizardsofOzzie
12-11-2007, 11:53 PM
Are you saying Piniella doesn't like to win? :?:
You are the king of reading a statement and spinning it into something entirely different

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:53 PM
Are you saying Piniella doesn't like to win? :?:

No, I'm saying it won't matter. First they play in the NL. Second they have to meet corporate guidelines for ROI. Third they simply cannot seem to put the right group of talent on the field and have always undervalued pitching as a commodity.

It's the flubbies...

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:53 PM
I'm not so sure I should post this but here.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071211cubs,1,1236143.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Quote:
The Cubs felt like they were in good position to outbid the Padres, who do not have a history of paying for the big-name free agents. The White Sox could have matched the Cubs, but general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with his crosstown rivals, focusing instead on former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.


"INCOMING!!!!!"

the1tab
12-11-2007, 11:55 PM
If Eric Gagne, after what he did last year in Boston, is worth a $10 million dollar deal...

then what is a potential middle of the order, left handed hitting outfielder with an alleged cannon arm worth?

I'm still wondering who was in the elevator when Kenny broke wind, because it seems to me that he made someone somewhere mad... the Amish don't hate like the market has treated Kenny this winter thus far.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:55 PM
Quote:
The Cubs felt like they were in good position to outbid the Padres, who do not have a history of paying for the big-name free agents. The White Sox could have matched the Cubs, but general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with his crosstown rivals, focusing instead on former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.


"INCOMING!!!!!"

LOL

I'm with Brian...

:popcorn:

Brian26
12-11-2007, 11:55 PM
I wonder how the Kenny/Dye cell phone call is going to go after this.

:rolling:

Frontman
12-11-2007, 11:55 PM
Are you saying that there is a major league manager out there that doesn't?
http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/dusty-baker-reds.jpg

"Dude, don't bring me into this conversation."

DeadMoney
12-11-2007, 11:56 PM
Quote:
The Cubs felt like they were in good position to outbid the Padres, who do not have a history of paying for the big-name free agents. The White Sox could have matched the Cubs, but general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with his crosstown rivals, focusing instead on former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.


"INCOMING!!!!!"

Oh, lord...

WhiteSox5187
12-11-2007, 11:56 PM
I'm not so sure I should post this but here.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071211cubs,1,1236143.story?coll=cs-home-headlines
Oh Kenny....:whiner:

soltrain21
12-11-2007, 11:56 PM
:?:

As long as there are bars all around the Urinal and trixies chasing the players the culture will never change.


Trixies chasing the players? I remember quite a bit of girls liking Scotty Pods.

oeo
12-11-2007, 11:57 PM
I think he's suggesting that historically Japanese position players have done quite well in their first year in the MLB. The one guy that I can think of who didn't really live up to expectations was Kaz Matusi, but Hideki, Tadahito, those guys have all done quite well.

When did I ever say Fukodome was going to fail? :?:

I said his stats will not translate here. Just like Matsui, Iguchi, etc.

Get over yourselves, people. He's not a stud. I'm sure he'll be a solid ballplayer, but he's not the second coming of Christ. I bet he puts up numbers similar to Iguchi on the offensive side...is that worth $13 million?

It's Time
12-11-2007, 11:58 PM
It's the flubbies...

Not up for debate. That said, next to Ozzie, I have not seen a manager who hates to lose the way Piniella does.

He is in charge over there.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:58 PM
Trixies chasing the players? I remember quite a bit of girls liking Scotty Pods.

I doubt Pods was paying much attention to the trixies or any of the other baseball groupies...

the1tab
12-11-2007, 11:59 PM
Quote:
The Cubs felt like they were in good position to outbid the Padres, who do not have a history of paying for the big-name free agents. The White Sox could have matched the Cubs, but general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with his crosstown rivals, focusing instead on former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.


"INCOMING!!!!!"

Do the papers in this town have the following paragraph in their permanent cut & paste file this winter:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with [the Cubs, Tigers, Angels, Dodgers, or anyone else in need this winter...], focusing instead on [name of whomever is left on the scrap heap]

FedEx227
12-11-2007, 11:59 PM
The arm and the speed will, sure. Those are his God given talents.

OTOH, his OBP will not. Hideki Matsui was a HUGE OBP guy in Japan (more so than Fukodome), and is closer to the average here. Go look at the history of these Japanese hitters...their stats do not translate close at all. Ichiro has been close to an exception, but Fukodome never put up Ichiro-like numbers.

Right again!

Iguchi
MLB
.347
Japan
.349

Hideki Matsui
MLB
.371
Japan
.413

Akinori Iwamura
MLB
.359
Japan
.366

So Taguchi
MLB
.336
Japan
.333

Tsuyoshi Shinjo
MLB
.299
Japan
.305

JB98
12-11-2007, 11:59 PM
When did I ever say Fukodome was going to fail? :?:

I said his stats will not translate here. Just like Matsui, Iguchi, etc.

Get over yourselves, people. He's not a stud. I'm sure he'll be a solid ballplayer, but he's not the second coming of Christ. I bet he puts up numbers similar to Iguchi on the offensive side...is that worth $13 million?

We're all guessing here. My guess is the guy will be solid for the Cubs, but not an All-Star or anything.

voodoochile
12-11-2007, 11:59 PM
Not up for debate. That said, next to Ozzie, I have not seen a manager who hates to lose the way Piniella does.

He is in charge over there.

*****!!!

Lou's about to meet a little brick wall called the BOD. He ain't the BMOC anymore and if he thinks the money is bottomless, he's freaking nuts...

chaerulez
12-12-2007, 12:02 AM
For those saying Japanese OBP doesn't translate well in MLB:

Iwamura: .366 in Japan for his career/.359 in his first year in MLB
Iguchi: .349/.347
Hideki Matsui: .413/.371
Shinjo .305/.299
Ichiro: .421/.379

For the most part the OBP stays the same, unless you had a really high one in Japan, even then .370 in MLB level is still pretty good.

oeo
12-12-2007, 12:02 AM
We're all guessing here. My guess is the guy will be solid for the Cubs, but not an All-Star or anything.

Which is what I've been saying all along. You'd think we missed out on the next Ichiro by some of the comments around here.

oeo
12-12-2007, 12:03 AM
For the most part the OBP stays the same, unless you had a really high one in Japan, even then .370 in MLB level is still pretty good.

And Fukodome had a really high one...

People think he's going to bring his .438 OBP from 2006 over here...take 70 points off, and I bet that's what he'll have.

JB98
12-12-2007, 12:04 AM
Which is what I've been saying all along. You'd think we missed out on the next Ichiro by some of the comments around here.

There's only one Ichiro. There ain't anyone else like him in MLB. Doubt there's anyone else in Japan like him.

Frontman
12-12-2007, 12:04 AM
Do the papers in this town have the following paragraph in their permanent cut & paste file this winter:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with [the Cubs, Tigers, Angels, Dodgers, or anyone else in need this winter...], focusing instead on [name of whomever is left on the scrap heap]

I think you have a point there.

Either that, or its staff writers at the Trib and the Times who write that line just because they want to see the amount of bandwith flyingsox.com will generate after they publish it.

I know a certain Morroniottti who loves to honk off the White Sox fanbase at regular intervals.

btrain929
12-12-2007, 12:05 AM
Quote:
The Cubs felt like they were in good position to outbid the Padres, who do not have a history of paying for the big-name free agents. The White Sox could have matched the Cubs, but general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with his crosstown rivals, focusing instead on former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.


"INCOMING!!!!!"

Glad to hear our GM wasn't motivated enough to seriously pursue an impact free agent. I don't know if that is a true negative statement about KW or just the guy writing that article is trying to knock him....

Either way, I'll puke if we pay Aaron Rowand 13-14 million a year to play CF. I really like what we've done so far this offseason with Cabrera and Linebrink, but we need a few more of those moves. Hopefully he has something brewing on the phones, saving his motivation for other promising transactions....

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2007, 12:05 AM
When did I ever say Fukodome was going to fail? :?:

I said his stats will not translate here. Just like Matsui, Iguchi, etc.

Get over yourselves, people. He's not a stud. I'm sure he'll be a solid ballplayer, but he's not the second coming of Christ. I bet he puts up numbers similar to Iguchi on the offensive side...is that worth $13 million?
In a market where Scott Linebrink can get 18 million and Eric Gagne can get 10 million, then a guy who can put up numbers similar to Ichiro and/or Matusi right out of the gate is worth 13 million, yes.

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:06 AM
per Rotoworld:

" Peter Gammons talked to a GM (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3150588&type=blogEntry) who described Fukudome as "a cross between Ichiro and a young, healthy Mark Kotsay." "

I wouldn't have minded that.

Corey Patterson anyone?showad();

kittle42
12-12-2007, 12:06 AM
Do the papers in this town have the following paragraph in their permanent cut & paste file this winter:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with [the Cubs, Tigers, Angels, Dodgers, or anyone else in need this winter...], focusing instead on [name of whomever is left on the scrap heap]

Yes, and I'll save them this weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Rowand, focusing instead on trading for Coco Crisp."

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:07 AM
Yes, and I'll save them this weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Rowand, focusing instead on trading for Coco Crisp."

Well played.

chaerulez
12-12-2007, 12:08 AM
And Fukodome had a really high one...

People think he's going to bring his .438 OBP from 2006 over here...take 70 points off, and I bet that's what he'll have.

If he has a .370-.380 OBP in his first MLB season, that's pretty good. Aside from Thome and his .410, no Sox player in 2007 had a OBP near that.

It's Time
12-12-2007, 12:08 AM
Glad to hear our GM wasn't motivated enough to seriously pursue an impact free agent. I don't know if that is a true negative statement about KW or just the guy writing that article is trying to knock him........

:KW
"What plan are we on now anyway, plan D?"

DeadMoney
12-12-2007, 12:08 AM
Yes, and I'll save them this weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Rowand, focusing instead on trading for Coco Crisp."

Probably more like Corey Patterson.

Sockinchisox
12-12-2007, 12:09 AM
48 mil now apparently.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071211&content_id=2323241&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

oeo
12-12-2007, 12:11 AM
In a market where Scott Linebrink can get 18 million and Eric Gagne can get 10 million, then a guy who can put up numbers similar to Ichiro and/or Matusi right out of the gate is worth 13 million, yes.

You're comparing apples and oranges and bananas. Linebrink is getting close to $5 million a year over four years, Gagne just signed a 1-year deal for $10 million...and neither of those have any effect on the market for an unproven outfielder (set-up men != outfielders).

Similar numbers...ha! Like I said before, he does a lot of things well, nothing great. Ichiro is one of the best hitters ever, Matsui can hit for pretty good power (great in Japan). Fukodome was neither of those in Japan; he's suddenly going to be a combination of the two?

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:13 AM
You're comparing apples and oranges and bananas. Linebrink is getting close to $5 million a year over four years, Gagne just signed a 1-year deal for $10 million...and neither of those have any effect on the market for an unproven outfielder (set-up men != outfielders).

Similar numbers...ha! Like I said before, he does a lot of things well, nothing great. Ichiro is one of the best hitters ever, Matsui can hit for pretty good power (great in Japan). Fukodome was neither of those in Japan; he's suddenly going to be a combination of the two?

Fukudome will be better than, at this point, anyone the White Sox will have in CF or LF starting 2008.

I'm bitter too, but let's not get fiesty over it.

It's Time
12-12-2007, 12:13 AM
Fukodome was neither of those in Japan; he's suddenly going to be a combination of the two?

Wellll?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPPZjtu-eIA

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 12:14 AM
Does it say anything at all about the price compared to risk that the only two teams seriously bidding for his services were the flubbies and the Padres?

I mean if this guy were viewed as a sure thing wouldn't the Yankees and BoSox be pounding at his door? Wouldn't the Angels have been going after him instead of Hunter?

There's a LOT of risk in a contract this size for any player who has never faced MLB pitching. I don't think he'll fall completely on his face, but will he be an All Star? If not, is he worth that much money or is it simply that the Sox have to sign a big contract with someone talent be damned just to appease a vocal and whiney fan base?

Stick to your guns, KW. Do what you think is best for the team, now and in the future.

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:15 AM
per Rotoworld:

" Peter Gammons talked to a GM (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3150588&type=blogEntry) who described Fukudome as "a cross between Ichiro and a young, healthy Mark Kotsay." "

I wouldn't have minded that. Even if you wanna say that Ichiro is a feak and Matsui does nothing but hit for power, the above description sounds pretty stinkin good to me. Especially if the reports of $12m per are true.

Corey Patterson anyone?

thomas35forever
12-12-2007, 12:15 AM
Probably more like Corey Patterson.
I wonder if in that case, the media will come down hard on KW for signing a player who couldn't handle being in Chicago the first time around and that his now promising career is doomed because of it.

chisoxmike
12-12-2007, 12:15 AM
I doubt the Sox were seriously interested. Maybe if the price was right...

Let's just hope he's a HUGE bust! :supernana::supernana::supernana:

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:16 AM
Stick to your guns, KW. Do what you think is best for the team, now and in the future.

Is Kenny in a sandbox w/ a bb gun? LOL.

btrain929
12-12-2007, 12:16 AM
48 mil now apparently.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071211&content_id=2323241&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

12 million a year??? C'mon, Kenny........ :whiner:

I thought it was going to be a 3/48 or 4/56-60. KW says he doesnt want Andruw Jones cuz he doesn't give him the OBP and the hard nosed at bats. Now someone is on the market that would give him that, solve the CF problem, and come at a lesser price than Andruw (in terms of per year $$), and Hunter (years and $$) and we STILL can't pull the trigger??? If this 4/48 is true, I honestly haven't had any problem with KW's offseason.....................until now. :angry:

btrain929
12-12-2007, 12:17 AM
Does it say anything at all about the price compared to risk that the only two teams seriously bidding for his services were the flubbies and the Padres?

I mean if this guy were viewed as a sure thing wouldn't the Yankees and BoSox be pounding at his door? Wouldn't the Angels have been going after him instead of Hunter?

There's a LOT of risk in a contract this size for any player who has never faced MLB pitching. I don't think he'll fall completely on his face, but will he be an All Star? If not, is he worth that much money or is it simply that the Sox have to sign a big contract with someone talent be damned just to appease a vocal and whiney fan base?

Stick to your guns, KW. Do what you think is best for the team, now and in the future.

Each of those teams have 4 OF'ers a piece. That's why they weren't interested.

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 12:18 AM
Is Kenny in a sandbox w/ a bb gun? LOL.

I get it... KW's a child... He's not really a MLB GM unlike the geniuses posting here at WSI who have all built a WS champion in their lifetimes...

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 12:19 AM
Each of those teams have 4 OF'ers a piece. That's why they weren't interested.

Right like they wouldn't trade off one of those OF for a bag of used baseballs in a heartbeat if Fukudome was a far better option.

I mean TorIIII freaking hunter got a $90M contract to put up an OPS in the low .800's at best.

thomas35forever
12-12-2007, 12:20 AM
12 million a year??? C'mon, Kenny........ :whiner:

I thought it was going to be a 3/48 or 4/56-60. KW says he doesnt want Andruw Jones cuz he doesn't give him the OBP and the hard nosed at bats. Now someone is on the market that would give him that, solve the CF problem, and come at a lesser price than Andruw (in terms of per year $$), and Hunter (years and $$) and we STILL can't pull the trigger??? If this 4/48 is true, I honestly haven't had any problem with KW's offseason.....................until now. :angry:
Yeah, KW was gonna pull the trigger on Cabrera and Jones too but failed in the end. Again, those guys were involved with rumors that had ties to the Sox, but they weren't as serious as the Hunter rumors. Same goes for the Fukudome rumors here. The Padres and Cubs were the frontrunners from the moment he chose to play in MLB. All it said about the Sox was that they were just another candidate in the running for him. Don't act like KW just offered him a contract and then the Cubs came out of nowhere and signed him. We were right to be upset over the Hunter signing. We shouldn't be as upset over this one.

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:20 AM
I get it... KW's a child... He's not really a MLB GM unlike the geniuses posting here at WSI who have all built a WS champion in their lifetimes...

I will forever respect the job Kenny did of putting together a World Champion. Don't think for a second that's forgotten.

But after the pep talk he gave the media in early November about how 2007 didn't feel good and it wouldn't happen again, and how he was going full throttle after a championship-caliber team... I'm wondering in which season we're going to see that product on the field?

btrain929
12-12-2007, 12:23 AM
Right like they wouldn't trade off one of those OF for a bag of used baseballs in a heartbeat if Fukudome was a far better option.

I mean TorIIII freaking hunter got a $90M contract to put up an OPS in the low .800's at best.

1) No, I don't think they would.
2) Believe it or not, even though they are the filthy rich Evil Empire, they actually have spent like 400 million this offseason. Maybe they are "somewhat" tapped out and done on the FA market.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2007, 12:25 AM
I get it... KW's a child... He's not really a MLB GM unlike the geniuses posting here at WSI who have all built a WS champion in their lifetimes...
Krause won six championships with the Bulls and then destroyed hte franchise, just because he built one championship team doesn't mean he can do it again.

Now, I'm not saying that Kenny is a kid or that he's a bad GM, but I don't think he's one of the best GMs around either...and I'm not willing to give him a blank check and say "Go ahead, do what ever YOU think is best regardless of how the team performs or what else is going on" either...I am forever thankful for '05, but what has he done since? What did he do before? What talent has the farm system developed while he's been here? How many times has a team of his won ninety? How many times have they been to the playoffs?

Kenny's history doesn't start with 2005. I think that Kenny should be on thin ice for 2009 if 2008 is similar to 2007.

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:26 AM
1) No, I don't think they would.
2) Believe it or not, even though they are the filthy rich Evil Empire, they actually have spent like 400 million this offseason. Maybe they are "somewhat" tapped out and done on the FA market.

a lefthanded OF serves what function in Boston or NY?

Damon & Matsui - both left handed
Drew - left handed

Their OFs are full. The Red Sox have enough OFs that they're probably going to give away their 07 starting CF, the chocolate cereal himself, for nothing to the other Sox (ours).

I wouldn't have been shocked to see the Yankees get in the bidding on this guy if the Twins were stupid enough to take Melky in a deal for Santana by now.

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 12:31 AM
1) No, I don't think they would.
2) Believe it or not, even though they are the filthy rich Evil Empire, they actually have spent like 400 million this offseason. Maybe they are "somewhat" tapped out and done on the FA market.

That's a BS stat. $275M+ went to ARod who only netted them a payroll increase of around $3M next season.

Still, the Angels went and got an OF this off season. So did the Dodgers. In fact OF signings have been some of the more popular ones this year for players switching teams and getting big money deals to do so.

I just find it curious that the only two teams seriously making a run are the flubbies and the Padres and that the deal came in so relatively inexpensive...

Frontman
12-12-2007, 12:33 AM
Krause won six championships with the Bulls and then destroyed hte franchise, just because he built one championship team doesn't mean he can do it again.

Apples and oranges. That team was "destroyed" because everyone involved wanted something from someone else, and nobody was willing to give up anything. So we saw the end of a dynasty over greed. No more. No less.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2007, 12:36 AM
Apples and oranges. That team was "destroyed" because everyone involved wanted something from someone else, and nobody was willing to give up anything. So we saw the end of a dynasty over greed. No more. No less.
Well, my point was essentially just because a guy won one championship doesn't mean he'll win another...I think that if we look at hte job Kenny Williams has done since he took over we'll find that he hasn't done a bad job, but it's not a good job either.

btrain929
12-12-2007, 12:38 AM
That's a BS stat. $275M+ went to ARod who only netted them a payroll increase of around $3M next season.

Still, the Angels went and got an OF this off season. So did the Dodgers. In fact OF signings have been some of the more popular ones this year for players switching teams and getting big money deals to do so.

I just find it curious that the only two teams seriously making a run are the flubbies and the Padres and that the deal came in so relatively inexpensive...

In terms of millions given to players this offseason:
275 - Arod
52 - Posada
45 - Rivera
16 - Pettitte
4 - J. Molina
4 - Hawkins

That equals 396 million spent this offseason. My original post said they spent 400 million this offseason. That's a BS stat.........how???

RowanDye
12-12-2007, 12:46 AM
$13 per was reasonable. The 4 years was a little much.

$52 on him is a more judicious use of funds than signing Rowand, imo. Rowand's only an average CF defensively, he's not a Lead off hitter, and his O is deficient for LF, his real position. He's not what the Sox need. And the Sox knew that 2 years ago. And Pierre isn't what we need either - bad arm, bad obp. And Crisp? His numbers are no better than Jerry Owens. You can't trade anything but an organizatoinal minor leaguer for Crisp..

Not a lot of options left. That's okay, put a great defensive team out there and work on that young pitching.

Fukudome will reportedly only be average in CF and is not a leadoff hitter either.

Hunter is also not a leadoff hitter.

If we started the offseason with the demand of a legitimate CF who can leadoff, then I think it was just a wild goose chase.

Having said that, I would accept Rowand in CF (4 yr 56M) with Owens and Quentin battling it out for LF.

I really don't think KW has had much better options available.

ksimpson14
12-12-2007, 12:47 AM
I just find it curious that the only two teams seriously making a run are the flubbies and the Padres and that the deal came in so relatively inexpensive...

Sox fans find it curious too, when you're labeling the deal inexpensive and our other options are AAAA players

the1tab
12-12-2007, 12:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPPZjtu-eIA

This makes me think he might be more than "average" in the OF.

Nellie_Fox
12-12-2007, 01:31 AM
Does this mean that the posters here don't have to make any effort to learn how to spell Fukudome?

RowanDye
12-12-2007, 01:58 AM
This makes me think he might be more than "average" in the OF.

So he has a good arm (at least before surgery), the reports I have heard more so question his range in CF.

I would have loved to have the guy, but as everyone has said a million times he is NOT Ichiro!

JB98
12-12-2007, 02:06 AM
Fukudome will reportedly only be average in CF and is not a leadoff hitter either.

Hunter is also not a leadoff hitter.

If we started the offseason with the demand of a legitimate CF who can leadoff, then I think it was just a wild goose chase.

Having said that, I would accept Rowand in CF (4 yr 56M) with Owens and Quentin battling it out for LF.

I really don't think KW has had much better options available.

Why not Josh Hamilton? He had a .368 OBP and a .922 OPS in 90 games with Cincinnati last year. Yeah, that's a hitters' park. So is ours. If we're forced to "buy low" on somebody, I think Hamilton is the best option.

And the Reds are reportedly shopping him.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 02:07 AM
The guy got compared to Matsui a lot. Good not great in the Field, decent Arm, high obp, enough power to be a power threat, enough speed to not be a clogger.

At this point its not even shocking. I know we have until march, but anyone who thinks this was Kenny's plan to just keep missing out is a complete fool and can't face the music. Our GM is in the managerial equal of a massive hitting slump. I think there really was no plan B, I think it was ultimately Hunter or bust. This is not to say he will not break out of it, but he has to look himself in the mirror and see this approach is not working.

At this point I just assume let Owens start. Its better to have him prove he belongs or doesn't so we can replace him in 2009 then to keep thinking he is this safety net. He is a poor mans Joey Gathright and hes in his later 20s already, so its not like he has all this potential or time to develop. But right now he is all we have unless anyone is thinking Anderson still qualifies as a prospect. Hopefully Richar can handle leading off.

Domeshot17
12-12-2007, 02:08 AM
Why not Josh Hamilton? He had a .368 OBP and a .922 OPS in 90 games with Cincinnati last year. Yeah, that's a hitters' park. So is ours. If we're forced to "buy low" on somebody, I think Hamilton is the best option.

And the Reds are reportedly shopping him.

The Reds are shopping him because right now he is a buy high guy and could fill a pressing need. They aren't shopping him as a buy low. To get Hamilton you are going to end up overpaying.

chaerulez
12-12-2007, 02:10 AM
In terms of millions given to players this offseason:
275 - Arod
52 - Posada
45 - Rivera
16 - Pettitte
4 - J. Molina
4 - Hawkins

That equals 396 million spent this offseason. My original post said they spent 400 million this offseason. That's a BS stat.........how???

He's saying that 400 million is misleading because their yearly payroll has only increased by around $10 million.

soltrain21
12-12-2007, 02:15 AM
The Reds are shopping him because right now he is a buy high guy and could fill a pressing need. They aren't shopping him as a buy low. To get Hamilton you are going to end up overpaying.


Well, can we? Can we please overpay for someone or give up more talent from the minors that may or may not pan out to actually improve our team?

Bill Naharodny
12-12-2007, 02:39 AM
Yes, and I'll save them this weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Rowand, focusing instead on trading for Coco Crisp."

"The sticking point in the deal appears to be young right-hander Gavin Floyd. In an effort to pry loose Floyd, the Red Sox have offered to include Jacoby Ellsbury, Jonathan Papelbon and Dustin Pedroia, along with Crisp. But Williams has not budged, confident that Floyd's strong September will translate into a 32 and 3 season."

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2007, 02:44 AM
"The sticking point in the deal appears to be young right-hander Gavin Floyd. In an effort to pry loose Floyd, the Red Sox have offered to include Jacoby Ellsbury, Jonathan Papelbon and Dustin Pedroia, along with Crisp. But Williams has not budged, confident that Floyd's strong September will translate into a 32 and 3 season."
Source??

cards press box
12-12-2007, 03:19 AM
Who cares what he did in the WBC? Dice-K was pretty damn good in the WBC, too.

When MLB teams start scouting him, and pitching to his weaknesses, then we'll make a judgment. The WBC is not a good indicator of talent translating to the MLB, so you can give that argument up.

And I think what the scouts mean by a cross between Ichiro and Matsui, is that he does a couple of things well, but does nothing great. He's not a big power hitter (like Matsui was), he doesn't hit for unbelievable averages (like Ichiro did), and he's not real quick (although he's not slow like Matsui, he's not as quick as Ichiro). So what you have is a poor man's Ichiro (+ a little more power), for about $5 million less...what a deal!

Agreed. I have seen articles comparing Fukodome to Raul Ibanez and the 3rd baseman from Tampa Bay, Iwamura. I cannot imagine any team paying 4/$52 million for either of those guys. Fukodome's agent cleverly marketed Fukodome as a superstar even though the comps of Ibanez and Iwamura do not back that up. This may be yet another North Side miscalculation.

Everybody should relax. The Rowand market appears to be heading to the White Sox. Even if the Sox don't get Rowand, I suspect they make a trade for Coco Crisp or perhaps take a run at former Sox Mike Cameron. Another possibility is a Crede for Chone Figgins swap. Figgins is interesting as a CF or perhaps a super utility player who plays all over the place (CF, LF, 3B, 2B) and bats leadoff. If the Sox got Rowand or Crisp, I wouldn't be shocked if they still tried to acquire Figgins. Yet another possibility for a leadoff man would be David Eckstein who, as of today, has not yet signed with anybody. And who knows the Sox could also look at free agent Corey Patterson or explore trades for Brian Roberts or maybe Josh Hamilton or maybe Ryan Freel.

See what I mean? The Sox have a lot of potential options that look just as promising (if not more so) than signing an unknown commodity like Fukodome. If I had to guess, I expect Rowand and Figgins (with an outside chance of Eckstein instead of Figgins) to be in the starting lineup in Cleveland on opening day 2008. Anyway, it is only December 12. Let's see what happens.

alohafri
12-12-2007, 06:24 AM
He better do it quick before Rowand finds out he was option 5b.

I wonder if Rowand hasn't overvalued himself.

alohafri
12-12-2007, 06:26 AM
Everybody should relax. Even if the Sox don't get Rowand, I suspect they make a trade for Coco Crisp or perhaps take a run at former Sox Mike Cameron.
.

Print the World Series tickets now!

white sox bill
12-12-2007, 07:34 AM
Can't wait for the foul potty mouthed flub fans to start making fun of his last name once they realize he's gonna be a bust. F you F dome!

That said, he may do alright in that AAAA league.

white sox bill
12-12-2007, 07:39 AM
BTW I'll bet the windsock is peeing his tampon over the warm & fuzzies outbidding us for this guy

soxwon
12-12-2007, 07:47 AM
BTW I'll bet the windsock is peeing his tampon over the warm & fuzzies outbidding us for this guy

wait till tommorows times, today he got on Da Coach!!!

Viva Medias B's
12-12-2007, 07:51 AM
Let the Cubs and the Cubbie-loving media have their fun. If we had dropped that money ourselves to get Fukudome, you know we would have been criticized for signing an unproven player (at the MLB level) who is coming off season-ending surgery. When it comes to media bias against us, we have always been in a no win situation and always will be.

Jjav829
12-12-2007, 08:09 AM
Is anyone actually surprised? Did anyone really think we were going to sign this guy?

It sucks that another player is off the market, but I never really expected the Sox to sign Fukudome.

Besides, remember, 29 other teams are sitting around wishing they had Gavin Floyd. We're totally set!

soxinem1
12-12-2007, 08:11 AM
Did you notice an odd, foul odor in the air? It's from Cubbie fans who've soiled themselves on the momentous signing of FukUdome.

Too bad wrigley does not have a roof, we can call it The *** U Dome.

Jjav829
12-12-2007, 08:14 AM
Yes, and I'll save them this weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Rowand, focusing instead on trading for Coco Crisp."

And the following weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Crisp, focusing instead on Brian Anderson's newfound work ethic."

CLR01
12-12-2007, 08:37 AM
And the following weekend's story:

"...but Sox general manager Ken Williams didn't seem motivated to get into a bidding war with any of the other 29 teams for Crisp, focusing instead on Brian Anderson's newfound work ethic."

Which leads to the inevitable story about how Anderson didn't seem motivated to stay motivated and how Uribe really was Kenny's, or atleast Ozzie's, first choice in CF all along.

ChiSoxIn06
12-12-2007, 09:07 AM
someone told me that kosuke fukudome is actually japanese for jaque jones...im just saying.

Frontman
12-12-2007, 09:33 AM
Too bad wrigley does not have a roof, we can call it The *** U Dome.

Nah. He wouldn't of played for them then.

"On a side note, does anyone else think Fukudome's surname is how he feels about playing baseball indoors?"

:wink:

It's Time
12-12-2007, 09:56 AM
Agreed. I have seen articles comparing Fukodome to Raul Ibanez and the 3rd baseman from Tampa Bay, Iwamura. I cannot imagine any team paying 4/$52 million for either of those guys. Fukodome's agent cleverly marketed Fukodome as a superstar even though the comps of Ibanez and Iwamura do not back that up. This may be yet another North Side miscalculation.

Everybody should relax. The Rowand market appears to be heading to the White Sox. Even if the Sox don't get Rowand, I suspect they make a trade for Coco Crisp or perhaps take a run at former Sox Mike Cameron. Another possibility is a Crede for Chone Figgins swap. Figgins is interesting as a CF or perhaps a super utility player who plays all over the place (CF, LF, 3B, 2B) and bats leadoff. If the Sox got Rowand or Crisp, I wouldn't be shocked if they still tried to acquire Figgins. Yet another possibility for a leadoff man would be David Eckstein who, as of today, has not yet signed with anybody. And who knows the Sox could also look at free agent Corey Patterson or explore trades for Brian Roberts or maybe Josh Hamilton or maybe Ryan Freel.

See what I mean? The Sox have a lot of potential options that look just as promising (if not more so) than signing an unknown commodity like Fukodome. If I had to guess, I expect Rowand and Figgins (with an outside chance of Eckstein instead of Figgins) to be in the starting lineup in Cleveland on opening day 2008. Anyway, it is only December 12. Let's see what happens.

Are we supposed to cry or be happy with these scenarios?:o:

rdivaldi
12-12-2007, 09:57 AM
Well, can we? Can we please overpay for someone or give up more talent from the minors that may or may not pan out to actually improve our team?

:rolleyes:

I think this statement sums up the PPDCs for the past two weeks...

Rockabilly
12-12-2007, 10:07 AM
We didnt get Fukudome because he wanted to play RF according to Bruce Levine.

We offer him the same amount as the Cubs did

assrevolution
12-12-2007, 10:24 AM
Another potential outfielder lost. to the Cubs, who already have 6 outfielders. I thought he would have been a good fit for this team. I guess Kenny plans to play with a RF, LF, and a short center fielder this year? Maybe Uribe can stand on 2nd base and take a running start out to center on each pitch up in the zone.

Rocky Soprano
12-12-2007, 10:27 AM
Great Post.
Great Name.

assrevolution
12-12-2007, 10:31 AM
We should just do nothing. Everybody is too damn expensive. Let's just start our Charlotte line up. :angry:

Exactly. If we don't want to sign anybody that's available and has good numbers for yes, a good amount of money, then get out of the business!

Maybe there will be a strike this season and Reinsdorf will speak of how salaries are out of control, and then re-sign Albert Belle.

soltrain21
12-12-2007, 11:00 AM
:rolleyes:

I think this statement sums up the PPDCs for the past two weeks...

I'm not a dark cloud. It's just very evident the market is changing and we aren't adapting to it.

Kenny's goal was to get us back into title contention. He has not done it thus far. You can say, "Well it's only December you dark cloud!" But really, what are some things he could do at this point?

We would have to give up talent to get talent, so that would be us moving left to right, not up. And nobody on the free agent market would put us over the top. Hell, not a single guy on the free agent market was going to put us over the top.

voodoochile
12-12-2007, 11:02 AM
In terms of millions given to players this offseason:
275 - Arod
52 - Posada
45 - Rivera
16 - Pettitte
4 - J. Molina
4 - Hawkins

That equals 396 million spent this offseason. My original post said they spent 400 million this offseason. That's a BS stat.........how???

Because it overstates the number. Posada, Rivera , Molina and ARod all were on the team last year. So there is an incremental increase, but not a huge one.

In fact Posada got a $1M raise.
Molina got a 2.7M raise
Rivera got a $5M raise
Pettitte got no raise.
ARod got a 3M raise (though they will now be paying all of it so it's more like a $10M raise from their perspective)
Hawkins adds $4M to the budget

They added about $23M to the budget next year, which is a nice fat jump, and more than when I wrote my original post because I forgot that Texas was paying a chunk of ARod's salary. Still, I doubt they would pass on the opportunity to make a run at a guaranteed stud.

assrevolution
12-12-2007, 11:04 AM
Hell, not a single guy on the free agent market was going to put us over the top.

I agree. We need much more help from the farm system, and Kenny's looking there for starting pitching. As well he should, otherwise every starter would be making $15MM+ a year. but when you have no outfielders you can't afford to lose out to Torii Hunter, Andrew Jones, Fukudome and soon to be Rowand all in the same offseason. That can't happen.

Save McCuddy's
12-12-2007, 11:06 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151060

Did Brucey break this story? At any rate, it looks fairly official and pending only a physical.

the1tab
12-12-2007, 11:09 AM
I'm not a dark cloud. It's just very evident the market is changing and we aren't adapting to it.

Kenny's goal was to get us back into title contention. He has not done it thus far. You can say, "Well it's only December you dark cloud!" But really, what are some things he could do at this point?

We would have to give up talent to get talent, so that would be us moving left to right, not up. And nobody on the free agent market would put us over the top. Hell, not a single guy on the free agent market was going to put us over the top.

Not to be another "dark cloud," but what exactly has Kenny done thus far this offseason to make us a contender?

And yes, it is "only" December. But who is left on the market to get us into contention? Rowand isn't going to do it. There isn't a legit starting pitcher to be had (Carlos Silva??).

Thus far, we've only added a SS to a position where had just extended a guy while trading away one of our three legit major league starters and probably overpaid for a late inning reliever on the decline. That's it. We sold out for one free agent and watched him get paid somewhere else. We may, or may not, have been players in the only blockbuster trade thus far in the offseason, and watched him land in our own division.

I understand that you don't want to over pay for someone... but if everyone else is offering more money, how are you defining "fair market value" Kenny? I would argue that, if Jose Guillen and his drug suspension are worth $10 million per for three years to Kansas City, then the Cubs landing Fukudome at $12 million per for 4 is a steal, whether or not he's a known commodity. You're gonna tell me that Kenny didn't have $48 million in his savings account for an OF?

I don't want to be a dark cloud here... but where's the silver lining OR rainbow OR sun at all in this situation?

spiffie
12-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Because it overstates the number. Posada, Rivera , Molina and ARod all were on the team last year. So there is an incremental increase, but not a huge one.

In fact Posada got a $1M raise.
Molina got a 2.7M raise
Rivera got a $5M raise
Pettitte got no raise.
ARod got a 3M raise (though they will now be paying all of it so it's more like a $10M raise from their perspective)
Hawkins adds $4M to the budget

They added about $23M to the budget next year, which is a nice fat jump, and more than when I wrote my original post because I forgot that Texas was paying a chunk of ARod's salary. Still, I doubt they would pass on the opportunity to make a run at a guaranteed stud.
They pass on lots of guaranteed studs, or at least perceived guaranteed studs. Why weren't they in the bidding for Torii Hunter? Why didn't they go for Zito last year?

I think also the Yanks may be feeling a bit burned by the Kei Igawa signing, and backing off from the Japanese market for a bit.

kittle42
12-12-2007, 11:25 AM
Does this mean that the posters here don't have to make any effort to learn how to spell Fukudome?

Don't worry, Nellie - I'm sure the media will come up with something stupid to call him that will be easier for us brilliant Americans to spell.

ohiosoxfan
12-12-2007, 11:27 AM
Before everyone is worried that that sky is falling over not getting Fukudome, isn't it interesting that the Royals, who have a manager who has worked for 5 years in Japan and who were willing to sign Hunter and A. Jones for big money didn't even offer a contract to Fukudome. Seems that if he was a player, they would have made an effort. Hope this is true and the Flubbies are stuck with him for four long years.:cool:

assrevolution
12-12-2007, 11:40 AM
Before everyone is worried that that sky is falling over not getting Fukudome, isn't it interesting that the Royals, who have a manager who has worked for 5 years in Japan and who were willing to sign Hunter and A. Jones for big money didn't even offer a contract to Fukudome. Seems that if he was a player, they would have made an effort. Hope this is true and the Flubbies are stuck with him for four long years.:cool:

I don't think anyone should look to learn anything from what the Royals do. KC needs fans to start showing up, and I'd think they'd rather see Hunter or Jones instead of Fukudome. Wouldn't you?

rdivaldi
12-12-2007, 11:40 AM
I don't want to be a dark cloud here... but where's the silver lining OR rainbow OR sun at all in this situation?

In this situation there's neither. Not everything is black/white, good/bad, etc. The Flubs overpaid for an unproven Japanese player, who quite frankly I didn't want on my team. This thread is full of over-the-top (pants pissing) reactions to the situation, which unfortunately has become the norm over the past two weeks.

Sockinchisox
12-12-2007, 11:42 AM
Tailgunner says the Sox were the highest bidder in the Fukudome sweepstakes but he chose the Cubs because he wanted to be an organizations first Japanese player and that he wanted to play right field.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2007/12/strike_three.html

102605
12-12-2007, 11:43 AM
Fukudome might put up the same #'s as Corey Patterson for all we know. Too risky with our tight budget to toss the dice at signing this unknown.

102605
12-12-2007, 11:46 AM
Tailgunner says the Sox were the highest bidder in the Fukudome sweepstakes but he chose the Cubs because he wanted to be an organizations first Japanese player and that he wanted to play right field.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2007/12/strike_three.html

If thats true than its funny how things work out sometimes. We all know how the Cubs luck works. This guy might be on the DL still with his wrist issues and his #'s might dropoff from Japans considerably. Who knows.

munchman33
12-12-2007, 11:47 AM
In this situation there's neither. Not everything is black/white, good/bad, etc. The Flubs overpaid for an unproven Japanese player, who quite frankly I didn't want on my team. This thread is full of over-the-top (pants pissing) reactions to the situation, which unfortunately has become the norm over the past two weeks.

I think you're missing the fact that you are in a very small minority with that opinion.

Most of us did want him. So we're upset. Which seems a common theme with a lot of what's going on with the White Sox this offseason. And with each miss on potentially solid pieces, the chances of even competing into August continue to slip away.

You don't want to realize that's what's happening, then at least remember what I said when you're shopping for Patterson jerseys in the bargain bin at TJ Max next October.

munchman33
12-12-2007, 11:48 AM
Fukudome might put up the same #'s as Corey Patterson for all we know. Too risky with our tight budget to toss the dice at signing this unknown.

Yeah but he might not.

Whereas, Patterson will put up Patterson numbers. So we better play it safe and sign him because he's in our price range.

soltrain21
12-12-2007, 11:48 AM
Tailgunner says the Sox were the highest bidder in the Fukudome sweepstakes but he chose the Cubs because he wanted to be an organizations first Japanese player and that he wanted to play right field.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2007/12/strike_three.html


Well, that sucks.

rdivaldi
12-12-2007, 11:51 AM
I think you're missing the fact that you are in a very small minority with that opinion.

Most of us did want him. So we're upset. Which seems a common theme with a lot of what's going on with the White Sox this offseason.

:?:

I've seen nothing to suggest that some sort of majority of White Sox fans wanted this guy. This entire offseason has been centered around Hunter and Rowand. I think you might want to re-evaluate your statement.

munchman33
12-12-2007, 11:54 AM
:?:

I've seen nothing to suggest that some sort of majority of White Sox fans wanted this guy. This entire offseason has been centered around Hunter and Rowand. I think you might want to re-evaluate your statement.

Yeah, I'm sure this thread is 17 pages of people happy he signed with the Cubs.

I've seen more anti-Rowand sentiment than I have anti-Fukudome sentiment. A lot more.

rdivaldi
12-12-2007, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I'm sure this thread is 17 pages of people happy he signed with the Cubs.

I've seen more anti-Rowand sentiment than I have anti-Fukudome sentiment. A lot more.

If you read through the thread, it isn't exactly a ringing endoresement of the signing. Where is this "anti-Rowand" sentiment?

Sockinchisox
12-12-2007, 11:58 AM
If you read through the thread, it isn't exactly a ringing endoresement of the signing. Where is this "anti-Rowand" sentiment?

There's been plenty of Anti-Rowand, just go look at the Rowand thread.

jenn2080
12-12-2007, 12:00 PM
I'm not a dark cloud. It's just very evident the market is changing and we aren't adapting to it.

Kenny's goal was to get us back into title contention. He has not done it thus far. You can say, "Well it's only December you dark cloud!" But really, what are some things he could do at this point?

We would have to give up talent to get talent, so that would be us moving left to right, not up. And nobody on the free agent market would put us over the top. Hell, not a single guy on the free agent market was going to put us over the top.


Shame on your for being realistic. You know that is always people always interpret it to be pessimistic here.

TomBradley72
12-12-2007, 12:33 PM
I get it... KW's a child... He's not really a MLB GM unlike the geniuses posting here at WSI who have all built a WS champion in their lifetimes...

If the only posters with valid opinions are current/former GMs who have won the World Series...wouldn't this be a pretty small message board? :dunno:

CubKilla
12-12-2007, 12:40 PM
Tailgunner says the Sox were the highest bidder in the Fukudome sweepstakes but he chose the Cubs because he wanted to be an organizations first Japanese player and that he wanted to play right field.

Good move Fukudome. In no time, you'll have a curse named after you.

TomBradley72
12-12-2007, 12:42 PM
The only thing I'm upset about is that our current outfield (from the White Sox web site "depth chart") is:

LF- Pablo Ozuna
CF- Jerry Owens
RF- Jermaine Dye

I personally don't give a rats ass about JR and his partner's balance sheet, or whether other teams are overpaying for their FA's...I'd just like a team that is a serious contender to return to the World Series.

We're not even close. After three consecutive years of ~3MM in attendance as well as the overall "rising tide" of shared MLB revenue...we were three games better than the Royals in 2007 at the major league level and have very little talent (if any) coming up through the farm system.

About 60 days or so until pitchers/catchers report...we'll see what happens.

munchman33
12-12-2007, 12:45 PM
If you read through the thread, it isn't exactly a ringing endoresement of the signing. Where is this "anti-Rowand" sentiment?

It's called saving face. Lot's of well, now that's he's not coming, let's question what we didn't before. It really just comes down to 17 pages of bitterness.

There's tons of anti-Rowand sentiment in the Rowand threads. Mostly because of the ridiculous money he requires for the production he provides. It doesn't add up.

For the record, while Rowand is more proven, Fukudome has a bigger upside and costs less. This is more upsetting than when Rowand officially signs elsewhere.