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View Full Version : Tigers owner...payroll not an issue..we will spend whatever it takes


Fenway
12-09-2007, 09:34 PM
Tigers owner Mike Ilitcih should terrify White Sox fans....it looks like he has decided to play with Boston and New York. He is 78 and wants to win NOW.

"I've never had a [payroll] limit from a standpoint that if a player comes along and we need him, somehow you always try to figure out how you can get him. That's how I always look at it."

So Ilitch, watching the Red Sox dominate, watching the Yankees make the playoffs, and watching his American League Central rivals, the Indians, become a solid playoff team, gave president Dave Dombrowski the OK to take the next step, trading for lefthander Dontrelle Willis and third baseman Miguel Cabrera, two players who are on the verge of making huge money.

Ilitch and Dombrowski were sick about how the team performed in 2007 after such a tremendous 2006 in which they knocked off the Yankees in the playoffs and lost to the Cardinals in the World Series.



http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/12/09/tigers_are_going_for_broke/

CLR01
12-09-2007, 09:56 PM
If they had to trade for Cabrera and Willis just to compete with the White Sox I wonder who they'd have to get to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

Fenway
12-09-2007, 10:00 PM
If they had to trade for Cabrera and Willis just to compete with the White Sox I wonder who they'd have to get to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

If they were in the AL East they might win it right now

fquaye149
12-09-2007, 10:05 PM
If they had to trade for Cabrera and Willis just to compete with the White Sox I wonder who they'd have to get to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

Well now that they've climbed the ladder toward us, all that's left is buying their way past us, Minnesota, Seattle, and Toronto.

WHOO BABY can you feel the excitement in Detroit?

nccwsfan
12-09-2007, 10:05 PM
If they were in the AL East they might win it right now

No they wouldn't- the Red Sox have pitching, the Tigers don't. Once the season is in full swing people will realize that.

beckett21
12-09-2007, 10:06 PM
This policy is not new. They have never been afraid to spend money, they just spent it in the wrong places for 20+ years.

The difference is that now, they are giving it to good players instead of guys like Juan Gonzalez and Bobby Higginson.

getonbckthr
12-09-2007, 10:13 PM
Maybe this will help Jerry realize that money needs to be spent.

Oblong
12-09-2007, 10:15 PM
For those who don't now, Mike Ilitch also owns the Red Wings and they've had incredible success, along with some huge playoff failures, since the early 90s. But from 1993 on, you could pick them to win the cup and not get laughed at. He bought the Tigers in 1992. Their record from then until 2006 speaks for itself. Without looking it up I'll say it was the worst period in franchise history. Tiger fans used to be furious, thinking all he cared about were the Wings. I've tried until I was blue in the face to tell them that he's run the Tigers the same way as the Wings. He's just had poor people in charge. When he took over the team, he made Cecil the highest paid player in the game. He gave Fryman a big contract. He traded and then signed Eric Davis. He resigned Sparky. He jumped into the free agent pool. Then it all came crashing down. So he got the hot shot young prospect GM Randy Smith and trusted him to do his thing. Worst decision ever. The guy was a horrible GM. He may have been, and still may be, a talented scout but not a good GM. (He works in the Padres organization now)

With the Red Wings he hired away Neil Smith's assistant Jimmy Devellano in 1982. He gave him carte blanche to run the team as he saw fit. Spent whatever. With the Tigers he did the same thing. The problem was he had poor people making decisions and they either gave out bad contracts (Mike Moore, Dean Palmer, Damian Easley, Bobby Higginson) or made bad offers (Juan Gonzalez would just now be coming off the books at $18 per, if he had signed that deal, no Pudge, no Magglio), or bad trades. Smith essentially traded Cecil Fielder AND Travis Fryman for Matt Drews... an allegeldy good prospect with NY. (Who were rumored to have offered Soriano isntead). Drews went in the expansion draft so they traded Fryman for him, with AZ then sending him to Cleveland.

Now Ilitch is up there in age, late 70s, and he's desperate to win in baseball. He was always a baseball guy and wanted to buy the team from John Fetzer in 1983 but lost out to Tom Monoghan. With Dombrowski he found his Jimmy Devellano.

Personally I hope they win soon because Ilitch won't be around for much longer. The family's empire, Ilitch Holdings, includes Little Caeasar's Pizza, A food distributor, and entertainment (Fox Theater, Red Wings, Tigers, Comerica Park, etc.). Baseball was always a personal thing with Mike Ilitch and I'm not sure if his son who runs the whole empire shares the same passion. He might, I just don't know.

But payroll doesn't matter unless they spend it right. But I also hope the tickets and demand doesn't reach the Yankee/Red Sox level. I can afford the season tickets now. But they're only $19 for second row upper deck down the RF line.

PKalltheway
12-09-2007, 10:22 PM
Maybe this will help Jerry realize that money needs to be spent.
Who says he hasn't spent it?:dunno: The Sox had the fourth or fifth highest payroll in baseball last year IIRC.

johnny_mostil
12-09-2007, 10:23 PM
Tigers owner Mike Ilitcih should terrify White Sox fans....it looks like he has decided to play with Boston and New York. He is 78 and wants to win NOW.

Too bad his team is also old. (No teal).

This will end badly.

oeo
12-09-2007, 10:26 PM
How is Willis on the verge of making a lot of money? If you ask me, another rough year (which is definitely possible in this division, and the supposed velocity decrease), he's on the verge of his career collapsing before his eyes.

Patrick134
12-09-2007, 10:38 PM
How is Willis on the verge of making a lot of money? If you ask me, another rough year (which is definitely possible in this division, and the supposed velocity decrease), he's on the verge of his career collapsing before his eyes.


Amen. The guy came out of the gates hot his first season, and had a good third year, but he's been mediocre 2 straight years.

FarWestChicago
12-09-2007, 10:50 PM
Tigers owner Mike Ilitcih should terrify White Sox fans....it looks like he has decided to play with Boston and New York. He is 78 and wants to win NOW.Fenway, do you really need to post this crap? This board is almost unreadable as it is with the PPDC's going off 24/7. Do you have to get them more wound up?

Fenway
12-09-2007, 11:00 PM
Fenway, do you really need to post this crap? This board is almost unreadable as it is with the PPDC's going off 24/7. Do you have to get them more wound up?

PPDC's? :?:

Just showing the Tigers are scaring the eastern teams

jabrch
12-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Maybe this will help Jerry realize that money needs to be spent.

Ah yes - Jerry is cheap...it's been minutes since I heard this.

jabrch
12-09-2007, 11:04 PM
PPDC's? :?:

Pants Pissing Dark Clouds

getonbckthr
12-09-2007, 11:04 PM
Ah yes - Jerry is cheap...it's been minutes since I heard this.
For the market he is cheap. He won't deal with an agent because of the price of his clients even though they amongst the leagues best. They don't draft the best talent because he doesn't wanna pay for it.

Grzegorz
12-10-2007, 05:32 AM
Please take note: money spent does not guarantee titles. If it did our beloved Cubbies would be on top of the world.

MUsoxfan
12-10-2007, 06:53 AM
Maybe this will help Jerry realize that money needs to be spent.

There's a difference between spending money and being stupid about spending money. $90m on Hunter would have been stupid. I don't know why people think that money spent equals championships. Just because a ton of money is put into a player doesn't make him better or the team better.

itsnotrequired
12-10-2007, 08:46 AM
Ticket sales are surely helping alleviate payroll fears:


The Tigers sold more than $600,000 worth of season tickets Wednesday. They followed with a $680,000 sales day Thursday.

The previous best, Raymond said, was the day after Pudge Rodriguez signed with the Tigers in 2004. Sales that day: $250,000, less than half of Wednesday's tally alone.

The Tigers drew 3,047,124 customers in 2007, smashing their previous attendance record of 2,704,794, set in 1984, at Tiger Stadium where attendance was almost 10,000 seats greater than Comerica (41,070).

A nearly 100 percent boost in season-ticket sales for 2007 was the foundation for last year's record-breaking audiences. The Tigers sold 9,800 season tickets in 2006, and sold 19,030 full-season equivalencies (full-season and partial-season packages equaling 19,030 season seats) in 2007.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712070345

spiffie
12-10-2007, 10:22 AM
Please take note: money spent does not guarantee titles. If it did our beloved Cubbies would be on top of the world.
Actually they'd be about where they were last year. 8th highest payroll, 8th best team (worst postseason team).

Hitmen77
12-10-2007, 11:58 AM
The main problem with the Sox ability to compete isn't willingness to spend for the major league roster - it is a farm system that has turned out very little in the way of home-grown talent in the last few years. If the Indians and Tigers had our lack of home-grown talent, they wouldn't be able to just spend their way into contention.

To that end, if there is anything I'd question on the Sox "willingness to spend" is to question how much they are investing in their farm system (scouting, player development, etc.). I have heard people say that the Sox don't invest enough resources in this area. I don't have the data to know if that is true or not. This is not just about throwing money at Boras clients in the draft. Rather, it's a need for a more robust all-around player development system including a better presence in Latin America and Asia.

Hitmen77
12-10-2007, 12:07 PM
Ticket sales are surely helping alleviate payroll fears:



http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712070345

Those '07 numbers for the Tigers sound very similar to the Sox numbers for '06....drawing about 3 million fans, selling 19,000 season tickets (the Sox IIRC sold 21,000 season ticket plans for '06). Plus, I'm guessing (based on us being in a larger market) that the Sox ticket prices are higher, TV revenues, and sponsorship revenues, are higher.

I'm not saying this proves the Sox are "cheap" or that I agree that they are "cheap". But, I'm just saying.

jabrch
12-10-2007, 02:27 PM
If the Indians and Tigers had our lack of home-grown talent, they wouldn't be able to just spend their way into contention.


That's definitely true - but it isn't complete.

Detroit # of wins 1996 - 2005
53, 79, 65, 69, 79, 66, 55, 43, 72, 71

Detroit didn't build a great farm by spending money - they built a great farm by sucking ass.

Cleveland traded away a bunch of the veteran talent from their last good teams to position themselves now. They also did a great job signing undrafted international FAs (Martinez, Carmona, Perallta) - and did a great job retooling without rebuilding. Give them credit for making good moves - but Hafner, Sizemore, Blake, Martinez, Perallta, Carmonoa, Byrd, Westbrook, Lee, Betancourt, etc. were all not Indians draft picks...

That's not to say we couldn't do it either of those two ways. I just don't know that our fans have the patience for us to do it the Tigers way (sucking so asstasticly for so long), and I am not confident that any GM can do it consistently the way that Shapiro did. I like KW, and wouldn't fire him just to fire him, but if the opportunity presented itself to get Shapiro, I'd have Williams on the first bus out of town.

spiffie
12-10-2007, 02:34 PM
I like KW, and wouldn't fire him just to fire him, but if the opportunity presented itself to get Shapiro, I'd have Williams on the first bus out of town. :o: :mg::thud:

Oblong
12-10-2007, 03:52 PM
That's definitely true - but it isn't complete.

Detroit # of wins 1996 - 2005
53, 79, 65, 69, 79, 66, 55, 43, 72, 71

Detroit didn't build a great farm by spending money - they built a great farm by sucking ass.

Cleveland traded away a bunch of the veteran talent from their last good teams to position themselves now. They also did a great job signing undrafted international FAs (Martinez, Carmona, Perallta) - and did a great job retooling without rebuilding. Give them credit for making good moves - but Hafner, Sizemore, Blake, Martinez, Perallta, Carmonoa, Byrd, Westbrook, Lee, Betancourt, etc. were all not Indians draft picks...

That's not to say we couldn't do it either of those two ways. I just don't know that our fans have the patience for us to do it the Tigers way (sucking so asstasticly for so long), and I am not confident that any GM can do it consistently the way that Shapiro did. I like KW, and wouldn't fire him just to fire him, but if the opportunity presented itself to get Shapiro, I'd have Williams on the first bus out of town.

Outside of Verlander, Maybin, and Miller the rest of the farm system came from either undrafted international FAs or from picks in the later rounds, factors not dependant on what the major league team does record wise.
You need to have good people in the scouting department, something the Tigers either didn't have, or didn't put to good use for nearly 20 years, until Dombrowski got here.

PalehosePlanet
12-10-2007, 04:38 PM
If the Indians and Tigers had our lack of home-grown talent, they wouldn't be able to just spend their way into contention.


Huh? What home grown talent do the Tigers have? Granderson is the only starting position player I can think of, w/Inge on the bench. Pitchers? Verlander, Zumaya and Rodney. That's not much.

In fact they are indeed spending their way into contention.

Nellie_Fox
12-10-2007, 05:20 PM
Huh? What home grown talent do the Tigers have? Granderson is the only starting position player I can think of, w/Inge on the bench. Pitchers? Verlander, Zumaya and Rodney. That's not much.

In fact they are indeed spending their way into contention.They got the trade done with the Marlins because they had the kind of prospects Florida wanted.

Hitmen77
12-10-2007, 05:28 PM
They got the trade done with the Marlins because they had the kind of prospects Florida wanted.

They got 2 trades done that way. Don't forget, they had the prospects to get Renteria too.

jabrch
12-10-2007, 05:32 PM
They got the trade done with the Marlins because they had the kind of prospects Florida wanted.

Both of whom they got with high first round draft picks..

FloridaTigers
12-10-2007, 08:37 PM
The Tigers didn't sell the farm either. They're still full of developing promising prospects. The Tigers traded for a 24 and a 25 year old. Thats why I can't stand saying that the Tigers "Traded the future". No, they ACQUIRED the future.

canOcorn
12-10-2007, 09:10 PM
Outside of Verlander, Maybin, and Miller the rest of the farm system came from either undrafted international FAs or from picks in the later rounds, factors not dependant on what the major league team does record wise.
You need to have good people in the scouting department, something the Tigers either didn't have, or didn't put to good use for nearly 20 years, until Dombrowski got here.

As a Sox fan, the problem I have is that the Sox wouldn't have paid above slot to sign Maybin or Miller (we wouldn't have drafted either had we been picking at the Tigers' spot). They seem pretty gun-shy after LTP. Hopefully, that won't be the situation this draft.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 03:17 PM
And ask Brian Cashman how spending without any limits works when it comes to getting a World Series.

Frontman
12-11-2007, 03:19 PM
For the market he is cheap. He won't deal with an agent because of the price of his clients even though they amongst the leagues best. They don't draft the best talent because he doesn't wanna pay for it.

Except that the White Sox spent more than 25 other teams in MLB, right? You know, since spending automatically produces champions, right?